User talk:WikiBakel

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request for arbitrage by non greek people
I request arbitrage for the following: More then once Greek nationalistic editors removed my contributions I want non greek people to look into this. It can't be that Wikipedia turns into a greek extremistic and nationalistic propaganda forum I bought an atlas in witch you can see that the cham area belonged to Albania. (NOM : ROBBE, M. Géographie de M. Robbe. Méthode pour apprendre facilement la Géographie, divisée en deux Tomes. (Tome Premier). Contenant un Abbrégé de la Sphère, la Division de la Terre) The article below describes how the cham were expelled by the greek. Helladios and Tsourkpk constantly delete this without arguments or facts. I'm realy getting fed up with the pride and prejudice from these two editors. Wikipedia is not a propaganda channel for Greek nationalistic extremists WikiBakel (talk) 15:26, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Just a quick note since you were complaining you wanted "non-Greek admins" to look into your case. I am actually a non-Greek admin. Even though I speek Greek and am friends with some Greek users here, I'm not one of them and I actually tend to disagree with the Greek side more often than not, whenever I get involved in some disagreement. But whatever, don't worry, I'll leave the rest of this matter to others. You are evidently upset, so please try to calm down and discuss calmly, and avoid letting debates drift into off-topic nastiness. Just friendly advice. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:54, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Napoleon Zervas
"Zervas was forced to resign in 1947, when details of his contacts with the German occupation authorities surfaced" This quote came from Wikepedia's biography of Napoleon Zervas. Other sites are more explicit and call him a Nazi collaborateur. Nowadays there are still a lot of greek people that believe that the Cham people were expelled because they collaborated with the Nazi's. However it was Zervas thet collaborated with the Nazi's that expelled them. Shouldn't this be more explicit in this article. There is a UN resolution which asks the Greek government to repatriate the cham and to give back there properties.The rest of this article is lame. I miss the following:


 * [Copyrighted text removed]

http://www.illyrians.org/genonc.html http://www.illyrians.org/cameria.html Helladios and Tsourkpk constantly delete this entry. They accuse me of acting like a troll. This i find offesive. It also seems that only the greek side of history is allowed to be told. They seem to team up and prevent wikipedia from being an encyclopedia that is carried by the whole world. It starts to look more and more like a holliday leaflet. Other opinions are not allowed and deleted by some nationalistic greeks. How can you ever expect wikipedia to hold the truth with this kind of people? WikiBakel (talk) 15:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, if you want to change an article, you need good solid references to reliable publications. As long as you work from websites like that illyria.com thing, people will easily reject your edits. By the way, you didn't ever discuss actual changes to articles, did you? You were just using talk pages to promote your opinions, which is not what they are for. Oh, and what relation does Zervas have with the Cham issue?
 * That said, I actually do agree that some of our articles are one-sided in favour of a naive national Greek viewpoint. The sole reason is that Greek contributors here on Wikipedia have usually been numerically stronger and, if I may say so, on average more articulate in English than their counterparts from neighbouring nations. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The way wikipedia works is a little bit strange to me. I rather discuss any changes in an article before actually

making them. In that way you have a little bit concencus on the changes. Now i see that everybody is changing and the next passing stranger is changing it back again. This doesn't seem to be really efficient to make an article better. I see to many discussions about questionmarks and points. Zervas was important for the cham issue. The Greek always told that they only expelled nazi collaborating cham to Albania. In fact Zervas was collaborating with the germans to expell all cham to albania. When you read the illiryan.org you at least get a small impression that there is another side to the story. After you accept that there is an other point of view it is wise to investigate where the truth lies. Investigation should be done with facts and not with deleting. In this it is sad that a different opinion is directly deleted. I use the talk page on purpose because i think that the changes should be made after the discussion and not before. The fact that the greek contributors are numerically stronger should not lead to one-sided articles. This is an encyclopedia and not a book with greek bedside story's. Greetings WikiBakel (talk) 18:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Since my ip is blocked without looking into the real problem (censorship) I will quit this site and have to conclude that freedom of speech is not a priority here. Some guy has blocked me without looking into the problem. When i look at and read his talk page i know enough. Wikipedia will never reach an academic levelWikiBakel (talk) 21:19, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, you're implying that one cannot be academic and playful as well? Come on, that's no way to behave. I did look into the problem. Can you continue to edit without personal attacks? If so, I'll remove the block. the_undertow   talk  23:37, 28 January 2008 (UTC)