User talk:Wiki Raja/Archive 3

Regarding Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/User:Asian2duracell
Hello. Can you please go to this page and clarify why you would like a checkuser investigation into the matter? On the behalf of WP:RFCU, ✎ Peter M Dodge  (  Talk to Me  &bull;  Neutrality Project  ) 20:30, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Template:Dravidian topics, Carnatic music, WikiProject page
Hi again Wiki Raja, Thanks for your messages and my apologies not to've responded more promptly:


 * I have just added Kollywood to the list. Kollywood is the Tamil film industry. Also, I was wondering if it would be possible to add a new topic to the list Film''. There is also a Mollywood (Malayalam film industry), and Tollywood (Telugu film industry). Please let me know what you think.

Seems another good idea to me, as there's more than just one link. I guess there's two possibilities:
 * 1) Create a new Film line as you suggest and add the three links there;
 * 2) Maybe add them to the end of one of the shorter lines, e.g.

A new Film line with the links is probably easier to read, but makes the template taller; however, a taller template makes it more possible to place four rather than two reasonably sized pictures in the template (if that's something you'd still like to do). Alternatively, adding the links to the end of a shorter line (such as the Literature line) might be more involved, but it doesn't increase the template's proportions. Perhaps, though, there's a good possibility more Literature and/or Cinema links would be added, making the single line too long...? Whichever approach you prefer, I'm happy to help.

Thanks for the Carnatic music links; I must make some time to read them. Best wishes, David (talk) 05:45, 18 January 2007 (UTC) PS If/when you're happy with the WikiProject Dravidian civilizations page, move it from your userspace into Wikipedia: space where the other WikiProjects exist, i.e. rename it to WikiProject Dravidian civilizations, to make it "official".


 * Thank you so much for your help. I think that we can put the Kollywood, Mollywood, and Tollywood on one line in the "Related Topics" section. In that way the template would not be taller and we would not mix "ancient" topics with "modern".
 * That's a good point;

Also, in regards to moving the Wiki Raja: Wikiproject Dravidian Civilizations to the actual location for projects, is there a required number of people who must be part of the project?
 * I don't think so; good to see some other folk have signed up. David (talk) 06:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Wiki Raja 05:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

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Thanks for fixing spelling
Thanks for fixing my spelling errors on the creation/evolution controversy article. StudyAndBeWise 06:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem. Wiki Raja 06:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Vandals spelling errors
G'day. It seems you do a great job fixing spelling errors but could you please not fix vandals spelling. Just revert their stupidity instead. See for example:. Thanks! Maustrauser 09:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that. I will keep my eyes out on these inputs form vandals. Regards : ) Wiki Raja

Also your correction of a spelling today (see time stamp below) at West Highland White Terrier, under the category Famous Westies - Ben, a smelly westie from Leicestershire? Did you not notice this and consider reverting it? Would appreciate your vigilance here. Thanks. Refsworldlee(chew-fat) 20:10, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

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Template:Dravidian topics
Hi Wiki Raja,
 * Was wondering if it would be ok that I change the name Dravidian topics to WikiProject Dravidian Civilizations''?

I wouldn't recommend it, as (1) it's not a template about a WikiProject; and (2) I think I'd expect a template called "X civilizations" to distinguish between and link to articles about different X civilizations and their respective elements, topics, etc – something like:

So, I think I'd keep "Dravidian topics"... See, though, what the other folk you know to be interested say. Yours, David (talk) 10:16, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

My friend
The edits you made to Indian martial arts and Foreign influence on Chinese martial arts were based on legitimate content. The content has been mentioned in painstaking details in the Foreign influence on Chinese martial arts and the Indian martial arts article carries a prominent link to that article as well. I understand your concerns and I created both the articles in question. Your points are already covered and mentioned in detail in the "Foreign influence on Chinese martial arts" article. Kindly do not put Bodhidharma in the Indian martial arts article as it's unnessasary and may come under dispute by some very disruptive users. Best regards. Freedom skies 14:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks...
for fixing the spellings. - Rei-Ginsei 08:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I've joined
Dear Raja,

Thanks for the compliments and, I am intrested in participating to wikiproject Dravidian civilizations. I've joined to. Initially one suggestion (question). Inspite of the complex practises btw, since this project is related to the culture of "Dravidian people" which is primarily a single race(as 'dravidian') which divides further, Isn't it better to use singular form "Wikipedia:WikiProject Dravidian civilization" than "Wikipedia:WikiProject Dravidian civilizations"? If I was wrong pls correct - Paul 18:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Re:You are invited to join WikiProject Dravidian Civilizations
Thanks for inviting me to join the group. I will be glad to help out with the project. By the way, I was reading your userpage and find it to be very interesting. I saw some minor errors and took the liberty of fixing them. Urdu and Sindhi are generally considered to be Indo-Aryan languages. As a result, I moved them to that section of your chart and added Pashto and Tajik under your "Central Asian" section. For additional information, Sindhi is also written in Devanagari and Punjabi is also written in Perso-Arabic. I hope you don't mind. ;) With regards, AnupamTalk 22:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Your'e welcome. I'm always glad to help. Labelling them by script might be a good idea. The script name for Pashto, Sindhi, and Urdu is called the Perso-Arabic script written in the Nasta'liq calligraphy style. However, you might want to render Sindhi as ( سنڌي सिन्धी ) as Indian Sindhis generally use Devanagari. Punjabi could be rendered as (ਪੰਜਾਬੀ پنجاب ) because Pakistani Punjabis generally write the language in Perso-Arabic (Shahmukhi). By the way, even though the Bengali script and Gurmukhī script are abugidas, they are not considered to be Devanagari. I hope this helps. If you have any more questions feel free to ask me. With regards, AnupamTalk 23:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * My section on Asian scripts is up to date now. Thanks for your advice. Wiki Raja 00:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the kind note. I really appreciate it and am looking forward to helping out with the project. With regards, AnupamTalk 04:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

from Asian2Duracell with love
hey WikiRaja, how are u? I've read some comments made by u on other users comment-side. There are alot of complaints about u. It seems like u are going to warn everyone who is not on ur "side", or everyone who doesnt share ur oppinions. I know you made complaints about me, but didnt once talked to me about that issue. How I know that?.. just google my username. However I dont care. Come back to te Dravidian Topic. I think u missunderstood something important with this topic. I saw that on that ARYAN818 guy's page. Not any "Non-Aryan" is a Dravidian. And "Untouchables" are not Dravidian either. A Dalit from UP is "Aryan". A Brahmin of TN is ,like u call us, "Dravidian". Because they speak that language. When did we South-Indians get ripped off our Culture and Language? Or can u atleast say how that culture was "before" the Indo-Aryans destroyed our culture? U make a lot of comments about Ethiopians and Australian Aboriginies. U sometimes mentioned that we look like those people. I'M NOT SAYING, NO WE DONT LOOK LIKE THEM, HELL NO. Some may look like them but most dont. When U come with similiar culture of Ethiopians and Dravdians, I dont understand what u mean. Arent them mostly Muslim people? And most Tamils Hidnus? How can they be culturely close to us? U know Islam is a dominant religion in term of culture.

I know what I'm talking about, trust me. But I dont understand what that has anything to do with South-Indians. Some Mexicans, some Iranians, some NorthAfricans, some Cubans, some SouthEastAsians, even some SouthernEuropeans look like Tamils. I hope u know what I'm going to say. Look has nothing to do with Race. Tamils are mixed people, so Tamils come in all variations. But it's generally accepted that majority are of Caucasian heritage. (reffering to that picture you posted in Aryan818'spage, showing the guy on left side). It's risky of u to show his picture. Because showing pictures of minorities to represent the hole community is a risky thing. What if I showed a picture of a Tamil cinema actor, representing Tamil people? Rather showing pics of selected people, show them pics of a group about 20-50 persons.

Coming back to missunderstood of being of another ethnicity. I my self get mistaken to be Bangladeshi, any kind of Indian, Indonesian, Middle Eastern, allmost every country in SouthEastAsia, Half White/... and even, I gave u some seconds to catch breath...,  was I mistaken off being Half Korean/.. lol. But that's irrelevant. It just should show u how much just one Tamil person can get mistaken for.Asian2duracell

It seems like u are going to warn everyone who is not on ur "side", or everyone who doesnt share ur oppinions. I know you made complaints about me, but didnt once talked to me about that issue.

I will have to disagree with you on this since I warn those who break the rules of Wikipedia and mistreat others including myself. Also, regarding those whose opinions may differ from mine at times, I have had open dialogue with them and resolved any misunderstandings. Furthermore, I have also had open dialogue with ARYAN818 here including with you here, here, and here. As for Vandh, I have had open dialogue with him here and with an anonymous user who started posting the same date as Vandh here. However, with the latter three users, have had nothing but insults, acusations, name calling, personal attacks, and arrogance from all three of you. It seems the further I discuss things in a logical way with you all, it just gets worse. Do you expect me to sit back and take all of this abuse? Are certain users on Wikipedia exempt from rule breaking and abuse of other users? As for ARYAN818, I have offered the olive branch to him and even suggested that we work together collectively here

Not any "Non-Aryan" is a Dravidian. And "Untouchables" are not Dravidian either. A Dalit from UP is "Aryan". A Brahmin of TN is ,like u call us, "Dravidian". Because they speak that language. When did we South-Indians get ripped off our Culture and Language? Or can u atleast say how that culture was "before" the Indo-Aryans destroyed our culture? U make a lot of comments about Ethiopians and Australian Aboriginies. U sometimes mentioned that we look like those people. I'M NOT SAYING, NO WE DONT LOOK LIKE THEM, HELL NO.

You are correct. Not every "Non-Aryan" is a Dravidian since we have the Mon-Khmers of Assam, Nagaland, Manipur and other states of Eastern India. I disagree with you that "Untouchables" are not Dravidian, since there are "Untouchables" throughout the sub-continent, or at least within the borders of India. Answer to your question about South-Indians getting ripped off of our Culture and Language, Sangam literature such as the Purunanuru, Silappadikaram, Manimekalai, Thirukkural are being forgotten. By the way, on the Dravidian people page, Sangam literature is described as "Tamil lore". WOuld we consider the Vedas of the Indo-Aryans just a simple folk lore? or the writings of Shakespere, Ovid, or Homer who wrote the Illiad simple folk lore? I don't think so. Also, there is a tendency to credit the mythological character of Agastya for teaching the Dravidians how to read, write, think, fight, and even speak! Furthermore, Sanskrit has been given higher priority than the indigenous languages of Tamil, Kannada, Telugu, and Malayalam. I am in no way putting Sanskrit down or any other language, culture, or history down. I am just answering your questions. There was literally a fist fight in parliament back in 2004 over getting Tamil to be recognized as the second classical language of India. The accepting of caste system discrimination. Ex: after the tsunami, "Untouchables" were forced to wait at the back of the line for aid and pick up dead bodies. Discrimination against Dalits (Untouchables) during the tsunami relief took place in both Tamil Nadu and Kerala There is much more I can say, but that would be a book. Yes, I do make mention of East Africans and native Australians of the possiblity of a connection with the Dravidians thousands of years ago in regards to anthropology. There is evidence in ancient Tamil literature such as the Silappadikaram and Manimekalai, mother nature which was the 2004 tsunami (this was the fourth tsunami in the history of South Asia, and archeological evidence of sunken cities (for example the 7 pagodas of Mammalapuram (Mahabalipuram - Sanskritzed name), 6 of which are buried in the Bay of Bengal). Finally, for the last time, I'm going to ask you to refrain from yelling in your messages (typing in all caps) and using abusive curse words. Wiki Raja 22:50, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with you that "Untouchables" are not Dravidian, since there are "Untouchables" throughout the sub-continent, or at least within the borders of India.. yes thats what I mean. U dont get the point. Dalit is not a race. Neither do they all belong to the same race. And not to forget South Indians are not Dalits. Like u said that there are other peoples than Aryans and Dravidians, there are also Dalits in those communities. They look like them and talk like them and have the same culture. Not because the mixed with them, but because they are the "same". I'm "Dravdian" but I'm not a Dalit. And most Tamils I know arent either. I dont know what being Dalit has anything to do with Dravidian Idendity. There were several test made on that matter. The results: A Dalit from Punjab is of the same "race" as a Brahmin of Punjab is. And Tamil Brahmins do not distinguish from Tamil Dalits.

Sangam literature such as the Purunanuru, Silappadikaram, Manimekalai, Thirukkural are being forgotten...Who said that old Tamil traditions are forgotten? They're not. Even I (living abroad) got teached in those traditions. Ofcourse I cant remember everything. But the fact is even living abroad we Tamils have a strong Identity. For the last time, being Tamil is not a racial Identity, its linguistic. Ofcourse a African, European, East Asian or any Non-Indian (South Asian) cant be Tamil. But in India itself, allmost everyone can be "ethnically" Tamil. Those literatures u mentioned are "folk lore". So are Shakesperes and Homers works. Maybe Gujaratis or Bengalis have also something like the Sangam-literature for their own. We dont know about. So does every community. The Sangam literature is important for Tamils, beacause its about the Tamil folk. The Vedas are improtant for Indo Aryans because its about the Indo-Aryan identity. We never get teached in the vedas when I went to Tamil-School. It's all about media which makes something more important than others.

Various ehtnicities were influenced by Hinduism and Buddhism. Thats why Sanskrit has such a role in our society. Not because its superior, or the others are inferior. That happened not just for Tamil but for various other languages in India and SEAsia aswell.

'Yes, I do make mention of East Africans and native Australians of the possiblity of a connection with the Dravidians thousands of years ago in regards to anthropology. There is evidence in ancient Tamil literature such as the Silappadikaram and Manimekalai,' ..... Okay but, I'm sorry... there are no evidence in old Tamil literature about NativeAustralians or EastAfricans. Kumarikandam is not a source. Greeks thought there is a Atlantis. but noone knows where it is. It's like a "folk lore". U talk about a possibility, well there are possible intelligent creatures living outside our planet. But who knows. Well there is a connection between EastAfricans, NatvieAustralians and Dravidians... the same connection all huma beings share. We are all of the human race. Not more not less. U talk about some thousand years ago. How many thousands are u talking about 10k-20k? We other user in the DravdianPage talk abot some 3k to 6k years ago. There are enough evidence that Dravidans moved from nowadays Iran to India at that time (IndoAryans are from the same area). So my question is, with whom do we share more, with those people in the MiddleEast or those who live miles away? Remember those migration were natural, not because of slavery or something like that. Why should we look for something far away if we can look for something which is close to us.

Finally, for the last time, I'm going to ask you to refrain from yelling in your messages (typing in all caps) and using abusive curse words. ... say for the first and last time. It's supposed to be like "yelling". But not at you. ??Abusive curse words?? which are they? "Hell"..lol? ...somthing I want to add. U said about, we talk arrogant.....lol, I want to say something. We Tamils are known to be arrogant, that doesnt mean we are. I dont even understand we have this cliche but well... lol Asian2duracell 22:05, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

smart boy
“ When did we South-Indians get ripped off our Culture and Language? ”

Answer: The minute it was sold.Wiki Raja 02:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you know how much they paid us?...just asking, for the tax income authority.

Thanks Brother
Hey there. Much thanks for the invite. I've studied your page today, and find it quite interesting, esp. your interest in how southern India had spread its civilization (both material culture as well as ideas, ranging from Hinduism to Theravada Buddhiam to southern Indian scripts and martial arts) into southeast Asia, and stuff like that. I also find your sections on ancient civilizations of the world intriguing.

If I may just make one small correction in your section on traditional new year's...the Vietnamese New Year is correctly referred to in full as "Tet Nguyen Dan", and is cognate to the Chinese "Yuan Dan Jie".

I've gotten to know many Tamils since high school here in Canada and find their contributions to history just as interesting as those of the Sinhalese. Oh, out of curiosity, is the toponym "Sri Lanka" primarily a Tamil name or a Sinhalese one? Traditonally, the Vietnamese name for Sri Lanka had been "Tich Lan", cognate to a Chinese rendering of "Ceylon". But now, we just call it Sri Lanka as well.

Le Anh-Huy 05:14, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi,


 * Thanks for the reply and for reading my page. I have made the corrections to the Vietnamese and Chinese new years names. Anyways, the Sri part is Sinhalese. Otherwise, Lanka is both Tamil and Sinhalese. In Tamil, Lanka translates to Illankai. By the way, if you have not posted your name in the Members section of WikiProject Dravidian civilizations, please do. Your contributions are most welcome. Lastly, have you heard of the Cham kingdom of Vietnam who built the Cham towers? Wiki Raja 05:58, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

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Kannada / Telugu script
Sir, I noticed you had added to the Box in the Kannada page, When I went and looked at the history of the page Vatteluttu, I noticed, that it was an anon user who had written that Kannada and Telugu scripts evolved from the Vatteluttu writing system. As such the statement was not cited. Just providing the reference source is not sufficient, that too when the author is anon. I have removed the info added by you to the Kannada page. If you want to discuss this further, feel free. I have also added tag to theVatteluttu page for the same info.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 02:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * script=Vatteluttu indicating the Kannada / Telugu script were derived from the Pallava script of 300 BC.


 * Hello Dineshkannambadi,


 * Please accept my humblest appologies for the slight mistake in regards to citations. I have added to the Vatteluttu page which was started by someone else. However, I did stop by mentioning the Pallava kingdom. But, I had in mind to add the other Dravidian kingdoms such as the Chalukyas, Pandyas, Cholas, and the Cheras. I was going to get around to it sooner or later. I really appreciate you pointing this out to me, since it would cause confusion for other readers, especially those whose ancient kingdoms are not the Pallavas. I understand that Kannada is older than Telugu and of the Chalukya-Pallava wars as mentioned in K.A. Nilakanta Sastri’s ‘’History of South India’’.


 * Also, I will definitely add in the Vatteluttu page that the circular looking scripts of Southern India are not soley ‘’Pallava’’ as described by Coedes and Hart. Furthermore the Pallava script seems like a generic title to give the circular scripts of Southern India since the Chalukyas, Pandyas, Cholas, and Cheras wrote in this circular non-Devanagari style of writing. As far as I know, Vatteluttu is the terminology for the circular writing style of Tamil Nadu and Kerala. Also, considered Pallava script generically speaking. The Pallavas were both in Andra Pradesh and Northern Tamil Nadu.


 * I would really like to expand the Vatteluttu page and if you would like to help, that would be great. As far as I know, the Indo-Aryan scripts of Northern India and Nepal all use a similar style of writing called Devanagari. However, we seldom hear a classification for the circular writing of the Dravidians in Southern India. From what I have found in a couple of sources is that the terminology for the circular styled writing is Vatteluttu.


 * Also, I have formed the WikiProject Dravidian civilizations and would like to know if you would be interested in joining our group. The purpose of this project is to work on various topics related to the Dravidian civilizations of the Kannadigas, Tamils, Malayalees, Telugus, Brahuis, and Malto peoples of South Asia. This project will cover a wide array of topics from language, to scripts, history, arts, and much more. Perhaps we can work together on the Vatteluttu page.


 * Coming back to the terminology for the classification of circular styled writings, is there already a name for the Kannada script? Perhaps, we can create a page for that topic, and also post a link on Vatteluttu page directing the user to the Kannada script page? Or, we can have something on Kannada script on the Vatteluttu page? Once again, if you are interested in joining our poject group please link to WikiProject Dravidian civilizations and post your username in the members section. Kind regards. Wiki Raja 06:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Vattezhuthu
Vanakkam Wiki Raja.

Vattezhuthu as a term only applies to the Tamil script. The generic word used for all four South Indian language scripts should be the Southern Brahmi scripts. This term also includes the Grantha script and possibly even Sinhala, and also shows their relationship to many of the scripts of South East Asia.

The analogy you gave was Devanagari. This word, too, is actually only used to refer to one single script. The scripts used for Gujarati, Punjabi, Bengali and Oriya are not considered part of the "Devanagari" script. They share a common ancestry, that is all, just like the Kannada, Malayalam, Tamil, and Telugu scripts. -- Ponnampalam 21:19, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Re ...User deleting items from Dravidian topics template
Hi Wiki Raja,
 * ''Recently there has been a user who has been engaged in deleting topics from the Dravidian topics template... Is there any way that Dravidian topics can be protected or locked from further editing?

I've protected the template in its current state for a week and left a note on the talkpage; I hope you and Sarvagnya can reach some agreement during that time. If not and Sarvagnya starts removing material again, I'd say file a Request for comment (see Dispute-resolution). You (or I, if you prefer) could also ask for third opinions. Yours, David (talk) 12:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC)