User talk:Wikifan12345/Archive 1

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Bat Ayin
I have looked at your evidence. And it will remain as an attack on Palestinian Authority, Palestine and will only change if Israel gets the land and Bat Ayin in any impending land deal between itself and the Palestinian Authority in any two-state agreement or if Israeli annexs the territory unilaterally. (Tuesday2009 (talk) 03:15, 12 April 2009 (UTC))

Attacks in Gaza
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." Wikifan12345, it's ok to trash my work but alright for anonymous people to write diatribes full of lies about my work. Are you a Wikifan or a fan to paid Congressional hacks and or certain lobbies that try to stifle debate in this country. Whippersnapper1 11:48, 22 March 2009

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Whippersnapper1" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whippersnapper1 (talk • contribs) 22:50, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Please stop inserting grammatical errors and awkward phrasing into a lead that is already quite fine and well-phrased. Also, I'd appreciate it if you could explain to me how preventing people from reaching a hospital constitutes an attack. That information, while important, does not seem relevant. &mdash; Anonymous Dissident  Talk 20:29, 2 February 2009 (UTC)\
 * Well, how is wounded Palestinians fleeing to Hospital's in Israel not related to the attacks in Gaza?? Also, I fixed the awkward phrasing but the motivation behind my quick rewrites was because your edits were loaded with whitewashing and simply false information. As I stated in the talk, If you plan on removing ENTIRE paragraphs and inserting weasel words, go to discussion. Thank you.Wikifan12345 (talk) 20:33, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * These are not weasel words. This is trying to maintain some NPOV and appreciating the knowledge we currently have about what's happened. Please, stop altering the phrasing. With your every revert, you keep inserting syntax errors. I honestly don't understand how are phrasings are so different - other than the grammatical and formatting errors you keep introducing. Please, see reason. &mdash; Anonymous Dissident  Talk 20:40, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Your original phrasing was not NPOV, it was wrong. Please re-read the sources provided in the reference section.  Wikifan12345 (talk) 20:43, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * What part of it was wrong? Explain your objection. &mdash; Anonymous Dissident  Talk 20:43, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I just compared the diff. From what I can see, our phrasings were almost the same. I mention how people have been killed - so do you in just a different way. I mention that Hamas may be involved - you just say it in a different way. I mean, please. &mdash; Anonymous Dissident  Talk 20:45, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I said they were executed, and many were wounded, as the source clearly states. I also said that Hamas claimed at least partial responsibility for the attacks, simply because a leader of the organization highlighted its involvement to "reassert its control of Gaza."  Your version didn't even mentioned this, it just said Hamas is suspected of being involved. It's more than a different way, so stop unnecessary reverts.  Wikifan12345 (talk) 20:55, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Your failure to appreciate neutrality, especially in the lead, is becoming a detriment to this article. The evidence against Haamas is present in the main body of content, but in the lead a summation is needed, not detailed accusations. We know Hamas is suspected; my phrasing makes a point of articulating that in the initial paragraph. Discussing Hamas' actions and motives is not what the lead should be about. If you read the article, you'll see that plenty of information about Hamas' suspected involvement is given. My phrasing isn't much different to yours; it just uses proper syntax and gives a better overview of the situation. In fact, you just pretty much interchange "killings" with 'execution", which are not fundamentally different and the latter smells of COI or POV. In addition to that, it is entirely unecessary to mention that people were injured; the article is "attacks in gaza"; ever heard of an attack not causing injury? It's obvious and implied. Your claims of "censorship" are quite bogus as I, the creator of the article, was the one to author the information about Hamas' actions and discuss how they might be behind the killings. I have no investment and not interest in censoring material because I have no ties with anything but the good writing standard of the text. For all these reasons, I am going to ask you to stop reverting me, and to not template my talk page again. You are not the owner of the article, and neitehr am I, despite having started it. You seem to have some conflict of interest here, judging by your edit summaries, and I have observed your reversion of other contributors to the article as well. You're attempted monopoly over the content is not appreciated and cannot go on. I ask you to stop. &mdash; Anonymous Dissident  Talk 02:53, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You're confusing neutrality with fallacy. The evidence against Hamas was woefully understated, which I gladly improved. Syntax is a non-issue here; grammar is hardly an excuse for misinformation.  I changed killing to execution because Hamas orchestrated a systematic execution of Fatah and its supporters.  As in, they lined them up on a wall and shot them in the face.  They weren't simply casualties of war, they were executed as individuals.  Get it?  You being the creator of the article is irrelevant, and in no way gives you ownership of articles - per Ownership of articles.  You say you are not the owner of the article, but seem to be infatuated with the fact that you started it, and that somehow gives you the right to tell me and everyone how it should be written.  If syntax is your concern, go ahead and edit the article according to your standards of English.  But if that conflicts with my concern for facts and truth, then I will most certainly edit it.  I offered a very lengthy explanation for my edits in the talk section.  Also, I didn't mean to edit your user page template. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * In lieu of our dispute, the phrasing of your edit summaries, and your general manner, I have made a post at WP:COI/N. Feel free to comment. &mdash; Anonymous Dissident  Talk 05:27, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I understand your frustration
I fully understand your frustration at what's going on at the Gaza conflict article. The swarm of nasty pov-pushers butchering the article in the name of a consensus are really out of control. I generally avoid the article because I don't want to find myself in a situation where I would lose my control and tell these pov-pushers where to go. If I would lose control I would find myself facing a pretty good block. Hopefully, one day the pov pushers will go back to their porn habit, leave Wikipedia alone, and we'll be able to get back to editing neutral articles instead of propaganda pieces. I encourage you to try to edit the article and try to interact civilly on the talkpage, but when things get too crazy just move on to another article that is of interest to you. There have been greater injustices in the world then some hit-piece disguised as a Wikipedia article. -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 23:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

carriage return
Hello, instead of pressing enter when posting your comments it would be easier to read if you instead used break, like this: " this is one part this is the second " will end up like this: this is one part this is the second. The thing with doing it this way is it keeps your previous indent so it doesnt look like it is separate comments. Nableezy (talk) 17:35, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah I always forget to do that. I'll keep it in mind thanks! Wikifan12345 (talk) 17:37, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Arb enforcement
Thanks for your comment there. Funny how we landed there at the same time. Be civil at talk pages!Ferrylodge (talk) 18:56, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

re Lol
Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated. Savlanoot. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 22:58, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Reverting in Katyusha
Hi, Wikifan. Please don't just revert and wipe out an edit when someone has added information, as you did. Take it to talk instead.

In this case it's not “nitpicky”, because the article entitled “Katyusha” is about a rocket launcher. When you quote a news source which uses the term for a different thing altogether, you have to make this clear. —Michael Z. 2009-02-09 01:15 z 


 * Also, there's already a paragraph about Arab–Israeli conflict covering 1967–2006 in the article. Why on earth would you put the 2003 US invasion of Iraq in the middle of this? —Michael Z. 2009-02-09 01:22 z 

Hi. Pay more attention to the diffs. What you wrote wasn't removed, only edited, by me. I restored that version, and now you've put it into the article twice. Need a coffee :-) ? —Michael Z. 2009-02-09 01:59 z 


 * Here's a diff from before you started editing, so you can clearly see the net result highlighted. —Michael Z. 2009-02-09 02:01 z 


 * No, man, my first revert moved the information about Hamas up by one paragraph, and also edited it. —Michael Z. 2009-02-09 02:12 z 

Hey
Did you ever think about enabling your email? -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 15:29, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Click the "my preferences" section, which is at the top of each page. At the bottom of the page you'll see an E-mail section. Best, -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 22:14, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you so much, wikifan. It is my first one, and you know how important that first one is! I seriously appreciate it. :)

Yes
I think it is excellent. Tundrabuggy (talk) 05:53, 15 February 2009 (UTC) I responded on the article talk page and found another recent report reported by YNET UNRWA pays terroristsTundrabuggy (talk) 06:13, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

thanks
Thanks for what you said on the Gaza war page. On the actual content, I think the tag thing counts as lame, but your suggestion is spot on. I truly think it is redundant. --Cerejota (talk) 07:53, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

antisemitism and Gaza conflict article
Hi. Perhaps a moot point re how to summarise the incidents. The figures, eg CST figures, present the objective facts and it's best they go in imo. Really should be a breakdown of the nature of the incidents. Anyhow, the point I'd like to make concerns the edit comment. "False neutrality" is rather strong: I don't think being logical is "false" neutrality.

But my concern is actually re "Understating firebomings is..." Perhaps your comment was longer and intended to be factual and no insinuation was intended, but the comment as I could read it troubles me.

- Ddawkins73 (talk) 13:29, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Lindsay
Would you mind waiting for Cerejota's answer before you remove a tag when the debate is still ongoing. . You use exactly the same arguments on the other side in another article. Please, try also to improve WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL and more of everything : have in mind this is a collaborative project based on consensus (100% agreement) and discussion. Ceedjee (talk) 07:32, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I answered his question. He isn't an admin, so while I value his opinion, it isn't worth anymore than yours. The question posed was secondary sources, I provided information to respond to that statement. Unless you have any evidence that I can respond to, I'm pretty sure it's expected that I remove the tag.  The tag shouldn't be used as a badge of shame. I wasn't uncivil or mean so there was no need to include those links. Wikifan12345 (talk) 07:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * His opinion and mine have no more value than yours.
 * It doesn't mean you lead the debate.
 * I kindly ask you to have in mind this is a collaborative project, based on disucssion and consensus and the use of force is not acceptable.
 * So, wait for his answer or ask on his talk page his agreement.Ceedjee (talk) 07:40, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

reply
Not hostile to her, but you are exhausting her with your unwillingness to listen to rules, logic, and common sense like you have with other users before her. She knows Wikipedia guidelines (she is especially familiar with copyright policies) and you can tell she examined the case thoroughly and she gave you a very clear explanation, and she answered all your subsequent questions. But still you continue to rationalize and make excuses, just stop it. I know where it is heading. Also, I told you to not to use Fal when referring to me, so I know you are trying your best to turn this into a hostile situation. I brought in Moonriddengirl to comment because I knew she was better at explaining copyright infringement than I could. I should have reported you to the admins if I really wanted to do you in. Though now I really don't care if you don't assume good faith--Falastine fee Qalby (talk) 03:23, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

What I am trying to say is that even if God Himself were to explain to you what I mean, you still won't comprehend. BTW can you stop with the "I find it odd that other users think it is plagiarism." It is, hello! As for the second set of changes you made, I said it was a violation of the policy regarding the quotation of copyrighted text. Moonriddengirl agrees that it was a violation and she says that you didn't even attribute one of the quotations properly by passing off a Jpost statement as one of Cotler's (which was the problem to begin with!). She told you as it is. What more do you want? I didn't say you were being hostile to Moonriddengirl, so please stop using that argument now. I think the version we have now is okay, if you plan to add back the paragraph consisting of quotations, then we will have to go straight to the admin board. --Falastine fee Qalby (talk) 04:26, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Smile!


A NobodyMy talk has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend, Go on smile! Cheers, and Happy editing! Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

title change on OCL article
Why oppose? I though you had agreed with it in the past, based on RS evidence. My apologies if I am mistaken.--Cerejota (talk) 23:21, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

pchr
is not Hamas. They are not affiliated with Hamas in any way. You should know that, you use them as a source talking about Hamas executions of Fatah members. Also, read this, I know you will likely disagree with me, but please do not continue to equate the PCHR with Hamas. Nableezy (talk) 04:34, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Perception
Wikifan, it might be time to ask yourself if you aren't misunderstanding Ceedjee's comments. He has already said that he was misunderstanding yours, and it really seems like you guys are on the same page (both of you want a section which is a balanced representation of academic consensus) but got off on the wrong foot. Assume for a moment that Ceedjee is an expert (as he says) and that you are not (as you say). In such a situation, I can see how the two of you could get very frustrated over a misunderstanding, and start to believe that you are at odds with each other. Why not let him (the expert) write the section in question, and then see what you think. If you are still unsure, you can show it to an expert you know. I can also show it to an Israeli history professor I know for their opinion.

As for your comments on the talk page, you really really really need to tone them down. You are constantly repeating accusations against Ceedjee which are clearly against editing policy (wp:CIVIL and wp:AGF). This method of approaching discussion with both guns blazin' (so to speak) is not only not allowed, it is also harmful to the process of creating neutral articles. If you're unsure of what I'm talking about, I can point out some specific passages, but I think it best that you read the policy/guideline pages I listed here first. NJGW (talk) 07:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm a bit disappointed in your last edit. You start by saying that you like the text (after all, didn't I tell you the two of you were on the same side), then call the discussion a battle.  Please try to revise this attitide, as not a battleground.  This is official policy because the project is a constructive effort.  Believing otherwise will hurt the perception other editors have of you, and will affect the way they respond to your edits.   NJGW (talk) 02:35, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The line is called wp:AGF. Also, you should not ever try to be pushing your POV into the article.  You should be after what is verifiably expert consensus.  As for people rejecting your suggestions, this is why I'm trying to give you advise... I think your suggestions are getting rejected because you come in with a POV before you are completely familiar with the literature on the subject (as you stated in this case several times on the talk page).  If you approach a topic with humility and genuine curiosity (as you saw me do) rather than with prickly accusations and demands, you will find that it is much easier to get your way or a compromise.  You lure more flies with sweetness...  NJGW (talk) 02:59, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Comment
Re : when you use a word like "retarded" in this way. some editors might think you're referring to them. I'm also putting a message at User talk:Nableezy. ☺ Coppertwig (talk) 23:07, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Re : LOL! If everybody's happy, that's fine. But, sometimes in written communication it can be hard to tell whether someone is taking something as a joke or not, so it's good to be careful. I'll keep my eye out for comments such as you mentioned. If I'm spoiling a joke, I hereby give you permission to laugh at me for that. ☺ Coppertwig (talk) 23:34, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Work together on List of Terrorist incidents
You are extremely intelligent and collect excellent sources that update casualties figures and perpretrators of terrorist attacks well after the fact. I believe you and I can work together in fixing list of terrorist incidents, from now on. All incidents from March 15 to Jan are good and I believe should stay. I think from now on before either of us posts a terrorist incident we send each other and e-mail and link to source. My e-mail is lover_man_86@hotmail.com

Also the February 11 source is from a February 23rd incident. No suicide bombing occured targeting AU peacekeepers on the 11. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jersay (talk • contribs) 03:55, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

images
a general sanity test for myself, but i cannot possibly see this as appropriate for an article about kindergarten. tell me i am wrong somehow. Nableezy (talk) 04:32, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * i meant to ask you if i am wrong for saying that it does not belong in that article. i cant imagine all this bullshit spilling into articles on kindergarten, seriously wtf? do you think i am actually wrong? you disagree with nearly everything with me wanted to see how far that would actually go Nableezy (talk) 04:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * i think i can safely delete the 'dipshit' right? i was actually meaning you as in asking you if i am wrong. Nableezy (talk) 04:48, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Regarding - User:Yamanam
I just wanted to let you know, I will be on the lookout for User:Yamanam edits and I already Reverted some of User:Yamanam work. I have taken the time to crosscheck yamanam's edits and i think a administrator needs to reverse all of his edits. Keep me posted. --Michael (talk) 07:23, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

3rr
I have reported you to the edit warring noticeboard, you can see this here Nableezy (talk) 19:53, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * 24h William M. Connolley (talk) 21:27, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Mohamed ElBaradei editing
Please do not delete templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Mohamed ElBaradei, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Please refrain from removing cited content. Thanks,--69.208.130.188 (talk) 03:08, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Criticism sections are discouraged in Wikipedia because criticism is most commonly taken to mean negative evaluation. Wikipedia is built on a neutral point of view which means that no viewpoint is taken to be correct and that multiple viewpoints are presented.--69.208.130.188 (talk) 03:16, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Again, Please stop deleting portions of page content, templates or other materials from Wikipedia. The template serves a notice to readers and editors that there is an on-going discussion on the talk page. Thanks, --69.208.130.188 (talk) 14:10, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * His view on the Iraq conflict would be a direct reply to her, and the fact that it isn't included is why this section has its POV disputed (apart from the tendentious naming).--69.208.130.188 (talk) 22:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * And what exactly are you warning me of?--69.208.130.188 (talk) 23:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

"Mullah" is a potentially pejorative term, so it would be better if you attributed it when you used it.--69.208.130.188 (talk) 11:03, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why you keep giving me "last warnings". Last is defined as "occurring or coming after all others, as in time, order, or place", so you would typically only say this one time (the final time). And you can warn me not to use reliable sources, but Wikipedia is built on them.--69.208.130.188 (talk) 12:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I see that your edits are completely baseless propaganda and the removals I made were based on the fact that you are quoting selective articles and nonsence, for every "reference" you have used in the gaza israel conflict I can come with a counter article as well. So please keep it un biased since you are obviously pro israeli. I will continue to remove jibberish and nonsence that is not factual or deems pro israeli propaganda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.128.253.88 (talk) 20:48, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikifan, it may be a good idea for you to take some time away from this article. Your frustration is evident, and I think that your recent participation on the talkpage hasn't been as constructive as you probably would like. The IP editor makes good points on the talkpage (I haven't yet reviewed the editing history in detail) and if it is difficult to engage in good faith discussion, it would be better to disengage entirely. Avruch  T 15:55, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, he makes great points. Except an admin recently deleted almost 100% of his "editing" because it violated BLP rules and was blatant fluff. Accusing me of promoting Israeli propaganda is extremely inflammatory so I encourage you to report me to the noticeboards. Just because you interpret facts as "propaganda" is not my fault. Those sources were selected based on their importance and relevance to ME. If you want to balance the article with praise I don't care. Wikifan12345 (talk) 17:46, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I have no intention of arguing this with you here, but I didn't accuse you of anything nor did I interpret any facts as propaganda or vice versa as far as I'm aware. Avruch  T 18:00, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry that was the editor above. I don't want to argue, I can't go to your page because I've been blocked for the dubious claim of edit warring. Wikifan12345 (talk) 18:05, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

April 2009
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Nableezy (talk) 16:37, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * you have been reported to the edit warring noticeboard, you can view this here. Nableezy (talk) 04:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing for in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for violating the three-revert rule. Please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text below.

Jersay Notice - Admin's eyes requested
It seems a new user, User:Tuesday2009, has strikling similar editing habits as user User:Jersay, who was blocked for sock puppeteering documented here. He most recently removed 2 cited terrorist attacks, one without a talk rationale and the other came with a short, casual, dubious consensus resulting in "I do not think so.". He is also editing the Somalia war articles, which was the staple of Jersay and his sock puppets. Can a non-blocked user or admin ship this off to the appropriate board? I was recently blocked for "edit warring" (emphasize on the quotes) at 2009 Israel Defense Forces T-shirt affair.

Edit Warring
Please note that it appears you are engaged in edit warring on List of terrorist incidents, 2009 if you continue to revert without proper discussion you will be blocked. Also, please be respectful of other editors and do not tell them to "go away". Icestorm815 •  Talk  04:53, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I am well aware that vandalism is an exception to the 3RR rule. However, it appears to me that the edits Tuesday2009 is making are not vandalism. He has tried to initiate conversation on the talk page about the content. Both of you have made comments in your edit summaries as to why you have both made your reverts , yet you both continue to revert each other's edits after that. Therefore I have to conclude that this is a content dispute that needs to be sorted out on the talk page. As for the sockpuppet investigation, if a checkuser finds him to be avoiding a block his account will be blocked indefinitely. Until a decision is made on Tuesday2009, please assume good faith and treat him like any other user. Cheers,  Icestorm815  •  Talk  06:05, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Well you did continue, and no it isn't vandalism as defined by the 3RR exemptions, and yes you have form, so: 72h. Please learn the rules William M. Connolley (talk) 08:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

You neglected to include a block template for the second time. Probably did this wrong.

Wikifan12345 (talk) 18:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

It seems Tuesday has been blocked for 24hours. Too bad he'll have 48hr to fuck up the article before I'm unblocked, assuming this request fails. :D Wikifan12345 (talk) 18:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Nice save admin. Please, tell HOW the diffs I provided are not vandalism? He removed CITED, SOURCED, and REFERENCED material, over a dozen times. And I get blocked for reverting/removing/fixing. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Edit, wait, it's supposed to be a different admin. You can't rule twice, that's a COI. I'm going to paste and copy again. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:52, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikifan12345 (talk) 18:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the response. At this point I found it to be highly unlikely a block would be reversed, especially when that would put 3 admins in the cross-hairs. However, you failed to address two important points, which I made explicitly clear: A) How is this a content dispute? The diffs I provided, like this one ta-da, show Tuesday removing cited material. This became habitual, he removed over 9 edits of cited material in spite of warnings. If I go to an article you've been collaborating on and remove a paragraph of cited information 9 times, is that a "content dispute", or vandalism? Would you block yourself for reverting the edits? :D I'd like to know. Tuesday never went to talk, well, except for this: Lolz. I'm making things as simple as they came and it baffles me how such information can be ignored willingly. I will be forwarding this off to the appropriate noticeboard if one exists when my block runs up.

I can appreciate the concept that I should have gone through a more formal process instead of removing false and biased information as quickly as possible, but at the same time it is suspect an admin would not even notice Tuesday's editing or his sockpuppetry report. Wouldn't be appropriate for you admins to AGF since I believed I was reverting blatant vandalism? And according to the rule books which you provided, the edits clearly qualify. Cheers. Wikifan12345 (talk) 19:44, 9 April 2009 (UTC) Posted for uninvolved/impartial admin. Can't rule twice. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:54, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, this is straight from the link you suggested I read (which I have done days ago): Some material - sometimes even factually correct material - does not belong on Wikipedia, and removing it is not vandalism. Check to make sure that the addition was in line with Wikipedia standards before restoring it or reporting its removal as vandalism.


 * Seeing as how I was reverting material that fit the above qualities, whatever excessive reverts I may have made were just and appropriate. Also, you failed to recognize something very, very important: My 4th revert was NOT a revert. I stopped the reverting (even though it was justified) after Ice's warning, yet I was still blocked with William saying "I did it again." Even under the assumption that what changes I made warranted a friggin block (lol), I still shouldn't have been blocked. At this point I don't care too much about the block, I would like for it to be released purely out of principal but to be honest I'd prefer you would simply accept the facts, or in the least, respond to them. I'm sick and tired of short-sighted blocks. Wikifan12345 (talk) 04:39, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I find this very troubling. Look, the point is, no matter how right you are about the edits there comes a point when edit warring just has to stop and take a back seat to discussion.  If other users won't engage and you feel their actions are inappropriate, report them and wait.  That's why the 3RR exists, to protect Wikipedia against disruptive edit-warring.  The 3RR contains a very limited exception so that users don't get penalized for reverting Goatse images during a period of intense editing.  That is the kind of thing the vandalism exception of the 3RR refers to: obvious vandalism that all good-faith users would immediately agree needs instant reverting.  Your reverts do not qualify as that: the fact that you've had to try so hard to explain why they do is prima facie evidence that they do not (even you see that it's not obvious!).  If you are unable to understand this about the rule as it is written, you could at least trust me that this is how admins interpret and enforce that rule, and even if you won't do that you can at least take my advice that you ought to interpret rules conservatively if you don't like being blocked.  And, point of fact, your last revert  was after Ice's warning and was certainly a revert in part, which is also explicitly covered by the 3RR.  Mango juice talk 20:16, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for finally recognizing the last part. Are you telling me I should have left in a blatant geographical error for 24hours or risk *gasp* being blocked? I went to talk to provide (lol) evidence as to how fucking stupid that is. Really, someone with such a lack of understanding of basic geography and political governance should go edit Pokemon. I'm sick and tired of Tuesday's sockpuppetry and when he gets blocked I'll be forwarding you the link. Apologies for being blunt, but cordiality doesn't seem to work around here. What a joke. Wikifan12345 (talk) 20:20, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit warring update
I think I've informed most of the admins/users involved, but for those who don't know, User Tuesday2009 has been blocked indefinitely for....sockpuppetry. An IP sock was discovered immediately after Tuesday's ban and was blocked for 1 week. Good job admins. Wikifan12345 (talk) 11:40, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Continued vandalism at List of terrorist incidents, 2009
User talk:Tuesday2009 continues to replace the West Bank as Israeli territory, and has threatened to report me.

According to his userpage, he was given a 24hr block by admin User:William M. Connolley for edit warring, but that seems to not have taken effect. I'm truly surprised none of the admins involved, including William, have recognized Tuesday's sockpuppetry]. Perhaps they have a good reason. :D Wikifan12345 (talk) 19:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The block was from yesterday and it has expired. – xeno  ( talk ) 19:13, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh right. Just expired like an hour ago lol. My bad. Wikifan12345 (talk) 19:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, since you're here, does his edits concern you? LOL. Wikifan12345 (talk) 19:15, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Haven't reviewed them at this time... Not sure why I'm here, to be honest. (Ah, I see I previously declined an unblock request for one of your prior blocks...as such I should probably just let a fresh admin review this) – xeno  ( talk ) 19:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Wikifan12345 (talk) 19:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

WMC
Hello again Wikifan. Just saw you having some misunderstandings at WMC's talk page, and I hoped to clear them up. A block template is never required when there is a block. You can always put the unblock template on your page, even without the block template. Second, when someone deletes something (other than an active block notice) from their page, you shouldn't replace it as this can be seen as harassment (see wp:TALK). Finally, you were blocked for a 3rr violation. That's standard and automatic, so the question of impartiality doesn't really come into play very much. See wp:3rr for more information on that. WMC just said that since you now have a demonstrated history of editwarring, you'd better stick to 1rr and discussion from now on, at least until you get the hang of consensus building through wp:BRD. Hope this clears things up. NJGW (talk) 21:55, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Like I said, 3rr is automatic. It is not possible by definition for a regular editor to be a vandal.  They can be wrong, mean, or ignorant, but they are not vandals until there is consensus that they are vandals.  Under certain circumstances it is obvious to everyone, and then consensus is obvious too, but this obviously wasn't such a case.  A sock is not a sock until there is consensus of such.  Take this as friendly advice to help you from getting permanently banned.  I offer this because I know you've had misunderstandings of policy in the past.  Read wp:3rr and WP:VAND very closely so that you understand without the need for warnings.  NJGW (talk) 06:21, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, if you want 3rd parties to be aware of the conversation WMC is not having with you, the place to do so is at one of the noticeboards, not WMC's talk page. Continued similar behaviour would be called "wikihounding" by any neutral observer.  NJGW (talk) 06:28, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * For sock puppet investigations, you need to be short and sweet. "A did this [dif], B did the same thing [dif]. A did this [dif], B did the same thing [dif]. A talks like this[dif], B talks the same way [dif]."  Simply linking to their contributions will almost never get any attention, though there may be a backlog of cases, as I have a case in que that has also not been looked at.  Until there is evidence that a person is a sock, it is not vandalism.  Very simple, sad but true.  You revert someone that is not a proven sock/vandal, you are violating 3rr.  A 3rd party observer has to be able to be shown "Here is where we have agreed that Such-and-such is a sock/vandal[dif]."  If you keep pushing as hard as you push, you will end up being asked or even told not to edit anymore.  Learn to work with the community, because without the community there is no encyclopedia, just as without all of society there is no volume of human knowledge.  NJGW (talk) 06:51, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: T-shirt affair
I think it's too early, but the article is already clearly non-notable. For a start, all the links pointing to it that aren't relevant need to be removed (which were usually added as a result of recentism). The article should be AfDd when it's completely clear that it was based on one non-notable event. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 23:25, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We aren't working to a deadline ;) -- Ynhockey (Talk) 23:45, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Jerusalemcenter
Hey wikifan, I noticed that a new user intriguingly called Jerusalemcenter has started making updates to the Dore Gold article. I contacted them to ask for a ref because that page is hopelessly lacking in refs given that it's 'biographical material about a living person' but they didn't respond. I thought you might be interested/want to adopt them. Some people might argue that the user name implies a conflict of interest. Not me, I hope it is the Jerusalem center as they're well placed to add a lot of well sourced information to that article.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 05:21, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know how the adoption-system works and to be honest I doubt I'd make an appropriate handler. I do see the COI and I could imagine editors using JC as ammo in future-battles. I'll message him and see what's up. Wikifan12345 (talk) 05:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

April 2009
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Nableezy (talk) 01:49, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There is an RFC ongoing, let that finish before you keep trying to war the info out. An RFC is part of 'dispute resolution' let it run its course. If you want to reply do it here. Nableezy (talk) 01:55, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I've played nice. You obviously want to leave the source in as long as possible. An edit war is a nice distraction, eh? Many users have listed quality reasons why it should be removed. Your argument that we should simply sit on it and wait for the dispute to be magically resolved is rather silly if you fail to respond. I could report you for edit warring (you're at 3) but I don't plan on doing that. I don't I've ever reported you for edit warring LOL. Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:16, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * many? really, just as many said it should stay. wait until the rfc is finished, that is all i am saying. and also, learn how to tell time, your diffs below are 48 hours apart, not 'just over 24' Nableezy (talk) 02:18, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Uhh, correct. Yet your persistent reverting exceeds my own (check the diff.) Should have warned yourself. Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:22, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * How could it possibly exceed your own, they are all reverts of your reverts. Nableezy (talk) 02:25, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * As in, you have more reverts in a shorter amount of time. All my reverts, as well as several other users, have also removed your edits. Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:27, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Several other users have also restored the edit (and it is not mine, been there for a long time). But you again miss the main point. There is an RFC ongoing about this very issue. Just stop fucking with it while the RFC is ongoing, give others a chance to look at it. The user that originally disputed the edit opened an RFC to get a wider audience to weigh in. Just wait and see what happens with that. You doing all this by yourself is both pointless and useless. Pointless because of the RFC which should help decide the issue, and useless because it will not stick. Nableezy (talk) 02:31, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Where is this RFC?Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:32, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It is the thread you have been responding to this whole time. Look at the top of the section. And the edit was added in 2006, well before my time here. Nableezy (talk) 02:35, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And it is listed here Nableezy (talk) 02:37, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The RFC has brought several users into the circle. You can't simply say "wait for RFC" indefinitely or until people get bored and move on. You are the one saying no and you refuse to respond. Also, don't spam my page with edit warring crap. Cut and dry COI and probably qualifies for Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:45, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The RFC ends at a certain time, and my counting is 2 users who categorically say it should not be there (you and the user who initiated it), 3 who say it is fine (me and 2 others) and 2 (tundra and the ip) who actually responded about inclusion criteria. Nableezy (talk) 02:49, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And the warning is needed if I were to report you for edit warring, so sorry, but if you keep edit-warring I will keep placing the warnings. You certainly can delete whatever you want from the your talk, but the warning is a formality that is needed. Nableezy (talk) 02:50, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And you should have consensus for removing long standing (3 years) cited text. Nableezy (talk) 02:52, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Just because an edit sits for 3 years does not mean it is somehow more valid. There is a rule for that somewhere on here. An editor obviously couched it in before the article became relatively heated, as the talk has no rationale or discussion for its original inclusion. Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:56, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

[od]Plus Wikifan is right about the burden of evidence being on he who wants to include it. Nableezy should not be putting this in until he gets consensus and certainly not edit-warring or being disruptive over it and then accusing someone else. Tundrabuggy (talk) 03:39, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The burden has been met, and edit warring over it during an RFC is not proper behavior. Nableezy (talk) 03:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You were edit warring. Burden has not been met, Tundra and I explained why. Continuing to say "No, I disagree, No I disagree, NO..." is not persuasive nor an effective contribution to RFC. I'm about to send this off to a higher authority and end this. Wikifan12345 (talk) 04:04, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * feel free, im done here Nableezy (talk) 04:52, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Nableezy Archive
Just an archive of my responses to his frequent edit warnings and general spammage, most of which have been removed:

"Stop baiting me. It's a COI, since you are the principal character who is evading talk discussions. I've had 2 reverts in the last 24 hours, all of which have been your dubious edits. You, on the other hand, have managed 3 reverts in a little over 24 hours. 1, 2, 3. Please spam my userpage again. It's good evidence. :D Wikifan12345 (talk) 01:53, 18 April 2009 (UTC)"

source.

Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:12, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Another cautionary warning that was *shock here, brace yourself* removed: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nableezy&diff=284760813&oldid=284739957 I commented on your AFD. I believe your behavior has bordered wikihounding...] Wikifan12345 (talk) 11:34, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Another removed post:

While I'm pretty sure you'll end up removing this, I believe your editing at Charities accused of ties to terrorism has developed potential for tag-teaming. Wikifan12345 (talk) 21:30, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

More:

Your continued stalking, hounding, whatever you call it, in combination with your uncontrollable POV-pushing and punishing editors for reverting your disruption by gaming the system... Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of James G. Lindsay
I have nominated James G. Lindsay, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/James G. Lindsay. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Nableezy (talk) 10:55, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. Wikifan12345 (talk) 11:35, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * WF, I don't think further argument is going to move this one along the right path. If I were you I would put a copy of it in your user space and work on it in your spare time; making sure that as many salient points get into the UNWRA article as possible.  It looks like it may be a delete or a merge.  Put it in your user space for now and continue expanding as you can, then put it up again later when there might be fewer objections.  Don't argue so much, it will get you into hot water.  (I should have to tell you!)  As for using my arguments, you are more than welcome to.  My ideas are your ideas.  Mi casa, su casa.  Best, TB
 * Ok thank you. It can be discouraging at times. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:10, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

proper place
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring Will try to work on it today. Also the AfD below may be seen as "harassment" in my view. It hardly seems good faith, especially coming on the heels of this. Tundrabuggy (talk) 13:16, 18 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Of course it isn't canvassing. For one thing, both your talk page and that article is automatically on my watch page since I have edited both.  Since the article is of interest to both I/P people, I asked Coppertwig to put it up in that area  so we can get more input.  Hopefully more input is better.  Tundrabuggy (talk) 02:55, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Actaully, a better place would be WP:BLPN. This is a serious BLP issue, and it is surprising to see an admin on the side of the BLP violators. NoCal100 (talk) 03:00, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait, do you think Lindsay should be deleted? Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Oops, you're referring to the charity bit. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I think the Charities page should be protected. NoCal, will you put it up, then? This edit-warring, tag-teaming will continue indefinitely. Nableezy has had good results by using this method of edit-warring to the line and then reporting and/or warning others! Can we get an admin to put a lock on the article until this can be resolved? Tundrabuggy (talk) 03:56, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi
Thanks for your interest in my home page; at least someone liked it. Itzse (talk) 22:30, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

ad hominem attacks
If you continue questioning the motives of every user that disagrees with you I will make a complaint. Nableezy (talk) 04:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Make a complaint. Wikifan12345 (talk) 04:02, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * do it again and I will Nableezy (talk) 04:04, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I question the motivates of any user who demonstrates editing in a POV and non-neutral matter. This includes: removing cited material and bitterly reverting even after a talk, creating AFDs following a pathetic personal feud with a fellow editor, using logical fallacies to support arguments continuously in spite of recognition, and not assuming good faith for single edits (regardless of prior history.) I also question the motivates of anyone who follows me around, spams my pages with warnings, and threatens me with reports. So please, file a complaint. I'll respond when I have time. Wikifan12345 (talk) 04:09, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents Nableezy (talk) 04:17, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Apologies, I tried to re-collapse your response and subsequent discussion to a user's AFD post as a distraction not relevant to the substance of AFD; a slow page load screwed me so that instead of clicking Undo, it became a click on Twinkle's Rollback Vandalism button, which isn't cancellable. Oops, sorry. Anyway, please leave it collapsed, the issue has been resolved andisn't relevant to the AFD, and the AFD is extremely long already - which I'm sure is one reason why there hasn't been more involvement by people not previously interested in the topic. Rd232 talk 11:04, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Wikifan, just in case, I suggest you keep a copy of the article on your computer. Even it the article is deleted, it may be possible to re-use some of the most important material in a different article later. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 18:39, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Malcolm, great minds think alike. I just put the same suggestion above and saw you had already done so.  Or one could put it in one's user space as an article ie User:Wikifan/James G. Lindsay.  Tundrabuggy (talk) 03:13, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I copied and pasted but made the mistake of using that link. I'm wikifan12345, that's wikifan. A different user...lol. Did I do it right? Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * remove the categories, they dont belong in userspace Nableezy (talk) 03:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Even though you have not asked my opinion, I have two suggestions: Malcolm Schosha (talk) 18:21, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Be careful about WP:BAIT, because in that sort of situation you are fighting in the conditions others have chosen as being to their advantage.
 * 2) Edit some articles other than Israel/Palestine conflict. It is too intense for anyone normal to do all the time, and you will be branded a single purpose account to boot. Even non-conflict articles about Israel would give a break from the stuff that goes on in the other articles.
 * I've edited a wide-range of articles. Most of my edits tend to be in talks and those that aren't are relatively minor IMO. Wikifan12345 (talk) 22:58, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

hi
I commented on the tshirt page. Please email me by clicking the link on the left side of my page. --Shuki (talk) 13:39, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Adding where you found your information
In fact, all material on Wikipedia must be verifiable. This means there is a ref tag referring editors and readers to the source of the information.--76.214.104.121 (talk) 01:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I suggest you read what you linked. The source is verifiable. It is an editorial written by notable authors. They assert x, they cite x US government document as evidence. Whatever holes you identify is irrelevant. Again I said, it is an editorial published by a reliable source. Something this article seriously lacks. A ref tag is not necessary for an already referenced edit. Just as you listed some unknown Iranian doctor who promotes ME, none of what he said can be verified. It is however referenced, though by a non-RS. I've used talk extensively, listed vast amounts of guidelines to support my edits. I wish you would do the same. Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:00, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually it can be verified at the given link. To attribute something, you at least add a ref tag with the name of the document and the author(s). It is also nice to include the date the work was published or other information if possible. The source isn't disputed, just add a ref saying Wall Street Journal, the authors, and try to get the name of the article. It shouldn't be a big deal.--76.214.104.121 (talk) 02:03, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I did. The reference is the New York Times. What is the issue? In an editorial, 2 notable journalists assert x. That fits well with BLP guidelines. You're right, it shouldn't be that big of deal...because it isn't. See talk for further elaboration or review the guidelines I listed. That should clear things up, though I have my doubts. :D Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Freedom House edits
Could you tell me how you got on to the Freedom House article so that I don't have to feel that you are following me? Thanks,--76.214.104.121 (talk) 23:15, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's just looking at its history I hadn't seen you editing it since 2007 and then I saw you start editing it directly to take issue with some of my edits. Could you just temporarily recuse from editing it please? Thanks, --76.214.104.121 (talk) 23:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh, what? I re-organized the article and am considering submitting it for POV violations. The criticism section was bloated, I added a tag, and fixed a few words. I didn't really "edit," to the extent of adding new material. I encourage you to collaborate instead of asking users to leave. Wikifan12345 (talk) 23:28, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * edit: Wait, I did get to the article from your IP. I'm just looking at my history. I was probably going to send you a message and clicked on your username. I'm not hounding you or anything. I didn't even realize LOL. Sorry for the confusion, I will recuse from editing outside of my original edits. Wikifan12345 (talk) 23:29, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It was just really short after my edits and you specifically reverted my moving of some of the information, so I guess I had taken it that way but was trying not to. Anyways, I don't mind if you edit it in a few weeks when I will be much less sensitive about it. Thanks!--76.214.104.121 (talk) 23:35, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't check your diffs. If you left better summaries I might not have changed them. But then again, the article is better with my edits. Wikifan12345 (talk) 23:54, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So "Sorry for the confusion, I will recuse from editing outside of my original edits." and then you've continued to edit? I don't know how you think I should take this.--68.251.184.4 (talk) 01:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, outside of my original edits - re-organizing article according to wiki policy. I provided a lengthy rationale in discussion for all activities in the article. Wikifan12345 (talk) 01:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So you've been continuing to make edits outside your original edits when you said "I will recuse from editing outside of my original edits". I just thought it could be nice so it wouldn't be like you were following me to articles and reverting my edits.--99.162.60.191 (talk) 15:06, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, outside of my original edits. Why do you care so much? How many IPs do you have? Wikifan12345 (talk) 18:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Still editing
This concerns me because as you acknowledged it could be considered "hounding". I edit a very small subset of articles, and you had not touched this article for at least 2 years. I edit the article, and you then suddenly show up on the page reverting my edits, specifically after I ask you not to and while there is a mediation on another page. It is also a bit more troublesome because of past personal attacks. So hopefully you could stop being confused and stop editing the page, specifically since you said you would. Thanks, --99.162.60.191 (talk) 18:07, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 23:29, 29 April 2009 (You): "Sorry for the confusion, I will recuse from editing outside of my original edits"
 * (Me): "this section is all about the role or alleged role of the U.S. government"
 * (You), (You), (You).
 * Hmmm. I said I'd recluse outside of my original edits, which I am. All my edits fall under Criticism and Content forking. The article suffers from a lack of focus and extreme reliance on criticism. 2/3 of the article is criticism, many of which is simply repeated criticism from the same people. See undue weight. I provide a thorough rationale for all my edits in the discussion. If you don't like being reverted I suggest you take up your dispute in talk. I'm not accusing you of anything here, but it might be helpful to read through this: Ownership of articles. Wikifan12345 (talk) 19:38, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Since you are going to completely ignore my concerns I am going to express my concerns elsewhere.--99.162.60.191 (talk) 16:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Incident
Hello,. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.--99.162.60.191 (talk) 16:48, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

As a gesture of good faith, perhaps you could stop editing at Freedom House while the mediation is going on. This is not a judgement on any of your editing there, but it is unhelpful to the mediation. Kevin (talk) 22:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Six Day War
Please do not delete content or templates from pages on Wikipedia without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Ono (talk) 19:58, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I didnt add the template, so I suggest you take it up with User:Sci-Fi Dude (he added it using friendly). I believe he/she offered an explanation in the edit summary. On that note, I don't believe you get to remove a template because you disagree with it. Thanks, Ono (talk) 21:32, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

New name
I don't think "reprisal" is the correct term, but I do agree that if the "Gaza war" article has a name change, the political violence article should change with it. Too bad we can't call it Hamas political violence related to the Gaza war. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 08:10, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Tag - SDW
Yeah, you can remove the tag, then. Thanks for asking.

--Sci-Fi Dude (talk) 16:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Mohamed ElBaradei
Are you interested in resolving the dispute regarding that page? My impression is that you prefer to prolong it. If you object to the concept of "balance," say so, but if you can't engage without rehashing the dispute over one lousy source, what's the point? NPguy (talk) 09:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said before, this has nothing to do with one lousy source. I've told you this twice (while providing an overwhelming amount of reasoning), and you didn't respond before. Feel free to browse through the discussion once more. Wikifan12345 (talk) 23:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Wikifan12345, I am seeing a lot of comments from you that indicate to me that you are not really interested in resolving this dispute. I would like to see you drop past baggage and start actively collaborating with the other editors there. Kevin (talk) 23:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I've been collaborating as best as I can. Can you please provide an edit that you find to be disruptive or out of place? All my posts are either in response to your questions or claims made by NPguy and IP. It is extremely bothersome to insist every post outside of the predictable to be considered as prolonging the mediation. This all boils down to users not truly appreciating the importance of BLP guidelines. If you find something objectionable about my posts that fall outside of BLP guidelines (i.e, my suggestions), please list it. All suggestion/advice/proposal edits are supported by policies. Wikifan12345 (talk) 23:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I see these comments: "I think we are beyond good faith", "You. Do. Not. Understand. What. Reliable. Sourcing. Means" as being disruptive. These 2 set the general tone of your editing there. What I see as prolonging things is the continual diversion of the discussion back to particular sources. I do not object to discussing sources, when we reach that stage of the mediation, not before. If this style of mediation does not suit you, then suggest something else. Kevin (talk) 00:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * After 5 posts of thoroughly and cordially explaining what reliable sources, and the IP straight up says propaganda references are supported by RS (even though they aren't in the article), I respond in that tone. This isn't a POV dispute, we are arguing over policy. You can't debate propaganda or blatant sourcing issues. This is a major problem and would not be tolerated elsewhere. Does it not concern you? I remember adding a non-RS in a controversial article and was almost blocked for re-inserting it. I didn't know much about policy then though. Regardless of tone, the issues are clearly stated. I will glady post the diff of the IPs not-so-nice tone. We don't need hand-holding, the post above is pretty consistent with the users involved in the dispute. I consider editors accusing me of derailing the discussion and whining as a disruptive tone, but I don't believe the tone itself necessarily negates what is actually said. :D Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Please remove the "wtf?" from your recent comment. It is not helpful. Kevin (talk) 21:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Kevin (talk) 22:45, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Jude...
Do you like the Beatles? I love the Beatles. In fact I'm going to turn every single page here in Wiki to a Beatle page. I mean, think about it, I love the beatles, the beatles are the best band like ever, and they deserve ever single page in order for us to let the world know, that the beatles are the best band in the world. So, i must tell you, that the space you and others want to use to tell the world how great Israel is, has been confiscated in order to let the world know, something the world already knows. Beatles kick ass. Well, I guess that just makes you expendable here in Wiki, don't let the door hit you on your way out! Some people are tools, some are weapons. Care to guess which one are you? Cryptonio (talk) 01:47, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol wth...? Wikifan12345 (talk) 01:52, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

your statements on an/i
i am aware that you are just trying to fight what you see as an injustice, but don't misrepresent my actions on an/i. you seem to believe that you are correct in your breakdown of events, but you are not.

you said, "Malcom consented to this version: The term is currently most common in debates over the role of Israel in Jewish identity, where it is used against Jewish critics of Israeli policy. This was promptly changed to the POV version by untwirl without a *gasp* actionable consensus: The term is currently most common in debates over the role of Israel in Jewish identity, where it is used by right-wing Zionists against Jewish critics of Israeli policy."

that is simply not accurate. those edits took place on april 23.

on april 24, malcolm said this, "Although there is plenty in the article, including the lead, that I am unhappy about, with Peter cohen's change to the lead I could live with the article as it is. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 19:53, 24 April 2009 (UTC)" and here is what the page looked like at 19:53 peter cohen's edit.

"right-wing" is there at that time. the page stayed like that for almost a month before malcolm decided to take the whole sentence out. he consented to a version, and then changed his mind and decided to edit war over it a month later. that is disruptive. whether you see it as such is not important to me, but i do care when you misrepresent my actions. untwirl (talk) 18:12, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The lead did not stay the same for over a month. The Zionist sentence was removed, replaced, rephrased, written, by several users and did not "remain" as you say. example. Wikifan12345 (talk) 18:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * your example is april 19. malcolm consented on april 24, and came back may 20 to reignite the edit war.  untwirl (talk) 18:33, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The lead changed several times before. He changed it several times before. Then 20 days later he changes it again. So what? I don't see any reboot of an edit war and I don't see why that would be a concern. Wikifan12345 (talk) 18:39, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * this is the difference between the lead that he agreed to and his revert; he removed the same sentence that had been a bone of contention that had previously been settled and agreed to by him. look at the history of edits and you will see that this is true.


 * you know the way things work here. if you want to change something controversial you have to gain consensus, and resuming old battles after consenting isn't conducive to toning down the drama in i/p articles.   untwirl (talk) 18:57, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, first there was not a valid consensus as Malcolm indicated. Second, you do not to seek the approval of every POV-pusher in a discussion to change a sentence. If that were the case every article with a majority POV control could edit how they wish indefinitely. There was nothing dramatic about Malcolm's section, you guys made it dramatic. Wikifan12345 (talk) 19:37, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) well, he did agree to that version. if he changed his mind, he should have brought it up for discussion. instead he chose to edit war over it and this is how it has turned out. if you cant follow the rules you aren't allowed to play anymore. untwirl (talk) 02:40, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Recent comments
Hello,. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikiquette alerts regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Wikiquette alerts. Thank you.--69.217.67.104 (talk) 01:53, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: Mohammed ElBaradei
Hi Wikifan12345! The correct place to go for dispute resolution (if you can't work it out on talk) is, firstly, to Request for comment. Once you complete this stage, and if you still feel that the issues have not been resolved, you can turn to the mediation committee. Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 23:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi again! The mediation committee is not meant to deal with behavioral disputes (unless absolutely necessary), so I'm not sure if it would recommend a ban for anyone. I am very sorry to disappoint, but I can't really recommend anyone specifically—most of the editors I work with are very busy and actually have less time for editing now, so I doubt they'd be free for a lengthy mediation. You might want to talk to an individual member of MedCom (AGK seems like a fair and neutral person) and ask them to mediate informally, outside of MedCom. Hope that helps. Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 23:23, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, that would be the one. —Ynhockey (Talk) 03:13, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
Ged UK  13:06, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Medcab Request
View the source of this page and you should simply be able to paste this here:

Where is the dispute?
The dispute is taking place at Mohamed ElBaradei and Talk:Mohamed ElBaradei.

Who is involved?
A short list of the users involved, for example;


 * User:NPguy
 * User:Wikifan12345
 * User:69.208.130.182

What is the dispute?

 * List of acceptable sources
 * Scope of content in the article

What would you like to change about this?
Clarification on acceptable sources, resolution to other problems.

How do you think we can help?
Clarify which sources may or may not be appropriate for the article, or provide assistance in obtaining clarifiation. Help act as a mediator in the content scope discussion. Possibly temporarily extend article protection while mediation is underway.

Administrative notes
--69.208.130.182 (talk) 11:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

In regards to MedCab
Hello. In regards to your question, it's not listed yet as the bot hasn't added it yet. It will soon. Best, Steve Crossin Talk/Help us mediate! 09:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Note
Heyo Wikifan12345, I'm not being rude but if I ask someone a question please don't add commentary to my question. Allow people to respond. Warm regards,  Jaakobou Chalk Talk  15:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

category on user page
Take the off the user page, it does not belong. If you want to add a userbox that says you participate add but the category does not belong. Nableezy (talk) 03:37, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I thought it was off. I tried C@tegory:Wikiproject Israel participants/members/users (changed a to @ on purpose) like many other projects allow but all showed up as red. I don't feel like doing a userbox, so is there an equivalent category code? Wikifan12345 (talk) 04:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There isnt one for WP:Israel, you can make one though and make it so anybody who has the userbox will be in the cat (then it would be automaticaly populated by those who already have the box and you could just add the cat). I could do it for you, but I would be worried that certain users would accuse me of antisemitism if I did that action. Irony's a bitch sometimes, otherwise I wouldnt mind helping you at all. If you want directions on how to do it let me know. Nableezy (talk) 04:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hahaha if you have the time directions would be sweet. Wikifan12345 (talk) 04:37, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

And tell me when you are done so I can remove it from my sandboxes. Shouldnt be duplicates floating around. Then you add to your page. Nableezy (talk) 05:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Change the source of Template:User WP Israel to what is in User:Nableezy/Sandbox.
 * 2) Create Category:WikiProject Israel members with the source in User:Nableezy/sandbox.
 * Did I do it right? Wikifan12345 (talk) 05:44, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but it hasnt populated the cat page, will check on it tomorrow. But if you check people who have the box (User:Ynhockey) for example it shows up in the list of categories. Nableezy (talk) 06:04, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Change your page to read Nableezy (talk) 06:09, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks for the help. Wikifan12345 (talk) 07:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Israel
Hi Wikifan! Welcome to WikiProject Israel! I always assumed that you were a participant already, and it came as somewhat suprising that you only joined today :) I'm afraid that the project is facing dire times, and there are no regular maintenance contributors other than myself at this point, as far as I can tell. Still, the content edits are getting done, so at least that's good. I hope that you stay and help the project return to its former activity :) Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 18:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It is unfortunate that our WikiProject has such a shameful stereotype attached to it; I have personally removed names of users in the past who were clearly in it just for the propaganda. In any case, the project has a lot of maintenance tasks. There are three main things to do which are coming along very slowly: adding infoboxes (please note that if you add one, use Infobox Israel village, not Infobox Kibbutz), adding geographic coordinates, and assessing articles. Granted, I have little time to do all these myself, but have been working fairly hard on this in the last half-year or so, and managed to reduce the missing coords articles to below 200 and hope to do the same with the missing assessment.
 * Moreover, there are smaller tasks, like keeping track of new articles (they are no longer announced for some reason) and announcing them at WP:Israel/New, updating the "to do" list (this one is seriously undermaintained), etc. If you would like to help, just choose any of the tasks and start working, as slowly as you wish :) if every WP:ISRAEL member assessed one article every day (very easy because most are obvious stub and start class), we'd have them all assessed in a matter of weeks. Unfortunately, most WP:ISRAEL members are not active and I think I will go on another "purge" of the list when there is time.
 * Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 21:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The easiest task is assessing articles. Not always, because the better ones (C-class and above) are subject to interpretation of the assessment guidelines, but about 90% of the unassessed articles we currently have are either stub-class or start-class. Here's what to do: go to Category:Unassessed Israel-related articles. Select any article and go to its page. If it's very short, it's a stub. If it's longer but has very few references, lots of cleanup tags, etc. then it's start-class. If it's longer than a stub and has proper referencing, you might want to leave that one to someone else for now. More information on assessment here. Forget about assessing importance for now.
 * In addition, I recommend going to My Preferences > Gadgets, and checking "Display an assessment of an article's quality as part of the page header for each article. (documentation)"; It's extremely useful. IMO, assessment is not as important as some of those other tasks, but it's fairly important because it clearly highlights which articles need work, provides an excellent statistical overview for the project, and helps WP Wikipedia 1.0.
 * Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 10:57, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi again! Thanks for assessing the articles. If I may make a suggestion, please include the assessment in the edit summary, for example, 'assessed as start' instead of simply 'assessed'. Of course, this is not required and is simply for the convenience of other editors. In addition, the article about the prisoner swap might be C-class... not sure though, it has good sourcing but fails miserably in every other category. Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 23:58, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The assessment scale for WP:ISRAEL and WP:TERRORISM is actually the same, so ratings should be identical. However, I won't go changing the assessments for projects I am not a member of, just out of courtesy (unless it's an article that was expanded from stub to start or other obvious changes like a GA promotion). Personally, I am trying to avoid the more controversial cases of assessment for now, until there is a manageable amount of unassessed articles—for me that means below 200 (one category view). I recommend focusing on the obvious cases (obvious stub-class or start-class) and leaving the others for later, this way we could get many more of them done quickly. Then we can discuss the cases that remain, or modify the articles to be undisputedly a better class. For example, in 2–3 articles which I wasn't sure if to assess as stubs or start-class, I just found a bit of info to add to make them definitely start-class. Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 01:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * P.S. Very important! Sorry I forgot to mention this earlier (maybe you already know this), but it's very important to use the template WikiProject Israel, so if you see some WPISRAEL or WP Israel templates when you assess, make sure to change it to the correct template. After all articles use the correct one, we can run some interesting statistical and other bots. —Ynhockey (Talk) 01:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Most WikiProject assessment scales are the same, except certain important exceptions like the huge WP:MILHIST which doesn't have a C-class. There should not be different quality assessments for the same article across WikiProjects Israel, Palestine, Terrorism and most others. The fact that there are usually stems from one user updating their WikiProject assessment without touching the other project's. I often do this, because I don't want to create unnecessary tensions with other projects who might not like my opinion on assessment (it is, after all, a matter of opinion for many articles). Don't worry about this. —Ynhockey (Talk) 01:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Abso-
lutely :) It actually looks much better in your page than in mine ;) --Lanternix (talk) 12:05, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Rhetoric
You are correct in your response about redundant rhetoric. If you review the RfC, there is a high percentage of IP responses and new user/spa accounts, which raises my concerns about Meatpuppets, Sockpuppets and Canvassing. I will ask for a neutral 3rd party administrator to close the RfC tomorrow. --Nsaum75 (talk) 03:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah it's pretty typical. Wikifan12345 (talk) 06:04, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Supreme_Deliciousness
Hi! You might be interested in the discussion at. Specifically, notations I have made. Thank you. Nsaum75 (talk) 02:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC) (Using )
 * I responded. : ) Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:47, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

There is a conspiracy against me.
Many IPs showed up at the Golan page, many using same language as me mixing them with profanity, I made a post about it:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AGolan_Heights&diff=296397712&oldid=296397124

Look what happened today at the Mount Herman talk page, look at the bottom: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mount_Hermon&oldid=298297526

3 days ago I made a post on the Golan page about changing the Arabic text before hebrew, and now this, someone is trying to make it look like its me.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 12:24, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I rather not offer advice on this subject because I too have made similar accusations against others only to be proven wrong. What I can say is these sorts of stalking/harassment games targeting "opposing" editors can get quite nasty so if I were you I'd consider questioning a moderator or file a noticeboard complaint. Try to avoid arguing with the IP because it will merely encourage more baiting and trolling. Wikifan12345 (talk) 12:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC)