User talk:William Macadam


 * }

Post-nominals
I appreciate your message on my talk page and have corrected the style. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort so please feel free to correct anything you know to be inaccurate. Kind regards, Trillig (talk) 15:47, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Help me!
Help me with...

William Macadam (talk) 17:01, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Image addition
Hi William, I see with your last edit you tried to add an image to your article. Have you read the introduction to uploading images? It should help :) Samwalton9 (talk) 15:20, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

January 2014
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=591521473 your edit] to Ivison Macadam may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s and 1 "{}"s likely mistaking one for another. If you have, don't worry: just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
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Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 06:07, 20 January 2014 (UTC) Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=592223855 your edit] to First National Bank Building (Portland, Oregon) may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 ""s. If you have, don't worry: just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
 * [the British delegation under the chairmanship of Lord Lothian included] TGWU leader Earnest Bevin later British Foreign Minister in the post-WWII Attlee Labour government , Labour MP James Walker, General Burnett Stuart, Admiral Kelly, Geoffrey Vickers, the educationist
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 * its earlier quarters and when it was subsequently under the ownership of H.W.Corbett’s grandsons.

License tagging for File:Corbett-Failing houses.jpg
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Image tagging for File:FrontSt.Portland1852.jpg
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talk:The Image was provided to me for the Henry W. Corbett page, available for public use, by the Oregon History Society by Geoff Wexler, Head of Archives there in their Portland Oregon Society and Museum building. I have e-mailed him to ask him if there is any further identification that might help. They are a highly reputable institution and publisher of books illustrated with photographs, the Oregon Historical Quarterly etc., so you can rest assured that they are very familiar with copyright matters and it does not infringe any copyright. The photo was taken over 150 years ago in 1852 (Any photograph taken before 1923 is in the public domain).

talk:Hope these answers your query. Geoff Wexler of the Oregon Historical Society responded to me re. your query "Here’s the identification of the photograph. The photographer is unidentified. It came from us. Any photograph taken before 1923 is in the public domain (this was taken in 1852).  (from Geoff Wexler,Library Director,The Oregon Historical Society,1200 SW Park Ave., Portland, OR,  97205)


 * Hi, William, you are replying to a ""'bot", an automated process on Wikipedia so you probably won't get a reply. I'm not very good with images and copyright issues, but if you ask for help at WikiProject Oregon someone should be glad to help. These images are great additions to the project. Cheers, Valfontis (talk) 23:02, 23 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi there William, I'm from WikiProject Oregon and I'm here to try to help you with these image issues. Hopefully I saved the photo of Front Street. I found it online in an OHS search. That photographer must have died more than 100 years ago. For the photo File:Corbett-Failing houses.jpg, do you know if it could be found online, as that may help determine the copyright status? Jsayre64   (talk)  06:15, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Oregon invite
Valfontis (talk) 23:06, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

talk. Thankyou very much. I don't live in Portland or Oregon, although love it there. Fantastic state and people. May I look into this in few weeks?

Disambiguation link notification for January 26
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Henry Corbett citation
Is there someplace near Portland or online where I can verify the information you added to Henry W. Corbett? —EncMstr (talk) 20:24, 20 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Apologies for the delay in replying. I had forgotten how to do so but hope this works and reaches you. There is possibly a copy already in the Henry W. Corbett papers or his family files at the Oregon Historical Society (OHS) but when researching the files there I did not come across it. The letter has come to me from the Elliott R. Corbett papers, Henry W. Corbett's grandson and son of Henry J. Corbett to whom it was addressed, who predeceased his father Henry W. Corbett. I am sending a copy to Geoff Wexler, Head Librarian at the OHS Archives and once he advises me in which source file it is placed in I will add that to the reference for scholars access in Portland, Oregon. Thank you for carefully monitoring this. I do appreciate that after the very exhaustive research I undertook for the posting of the Henry W. Corbett article for Wikipedia to which i have now added the letter.


 * BTW the photographs that are connected to the Henry W. Corbett article can be placed in Wikipedia Commons with reference to the OHS or in one case in the stage Line posters to Dale Forster. Do I need to do that and if so can you remind me how I change those for permitted public use? They are out of copyright but OHS would like to be sourced on them. I am a bit swamped at the moment but will try and get around to that in due course if it requires my doing so. (William Macadam (talk) 16:45, 24 October 2014 (UTC))


 * Thanks for your efforts. Entering the papers at OHS would be a great step.
 * Maybe things have changed, but historically OHS maintained copyright of its materials such that we were not free to put them on Wikimedia commons. A few years ago, someone from WP:ORE made an attempt to persuade them to relax their stance, but I don't recall learning if that went anywhere.  —EncMstr (talk) 17:58, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Most of the Henry W. Corbett papers are at the OHS and the various books quoted as sources could not have been written without their archives this letter will just be adding to them and perhaps the various additional document. I will double check with Geoff Wexler about the use of the photos but when he sent me them for uploading in Henry W. Corbett piece he said they would be happy to have them for public use but would appreciate an OHS credit. They are out of copyright. (William Macadam (talk) 16:36, 26 October 2014 (UTC))

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May 2016
Hello, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. This is just a note to let you know that I've moved the draft that you were working on to Draft:William Macadam, from its old location at User:William Macadam/sandbox/William I. Macadam. This has been done because the Draft namespace is the preferred location for Articles for Creation submissions. Please feel free to continue to work on it there. If you have any questions about this, you are welcome to ask me on my talk page. Thank you. /wiae /tlk  13:27, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: William Macadam (June 1)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Majora was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

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Majora (talk) 01:21, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: William Macadam (June 2)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by The Voidwalker was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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Deletion pending for File:William Ivison Macadam b. 27th January 1856 d.24th June 1902.jpeg
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 * William Ivison Macadam
 * added links pointing to William Williams, PRSSA and Herbert Jackson


 * John Macadam
 * added a link pointing to George Wilson

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Your draft article, Draft:William Macadam


Hello, William Macadam. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "William Macadam".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the  or  code.

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Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 02:38, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Corbett001.jpg
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File source problem with File:Corbett001.jpg
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Incorrect Wikipedia Link to another Wikipedia page
EDITOR. I notice that the Link on Aleen Cust Wikipedia Page says that she attended William Williams 's and then a separate link to New Veterinary College. She did attend the New Veterinary College but the Wikipedia Link goes to The Royal Dick Veterinary College. They were two separate veterinary colleges. See the Wikipedia entry for William Williams (veterinarian) and also for Stevenson Macadam that explains this. The New Veterinary College was set up after Dick died and left it to the Burgh of Edinburgh and the New Veterinary College was started by William Williams, the principal of the Dick Veterinary College for reasons explained in the Stevenson Macadam entry. They were two different entities and the New Veterinary College should not link to the Royal Dick Veterinary College. Can someone fix this? Many thanks. William Macadam (talk) 17:35, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

ALSO SEE William Ivison Macadam Wikipedia page under Encouragement of Women. William Macadam (talk) 18:04, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Pioneer Courthouse, from the panorama of A. H. Walzer.jpg
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ANSWER

GOSH this is annoying. I did not make change to the file so why am I being contacted. The picture was supplied for the article with full permission to use by Geoff Wexler, Oregon Historical Society's then Head Librarian. THe photo was taken over 150 years ago. It comes from the OHS collection. I have made this clear before and it has been part of the article for years.William Macadam (talk) 10:06, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

This photo of Pioneer Courthouse should not have been deleted
EDITOR :These computer bots do create unnecessary deletions and should not. The Photo was supplied for the article with full permission to use by the Oregon Historical Society, 1200 SW Park Avenue, Portland, Oregon 97205, Tel; 503 222,1741 through Geoff Wexler, Oregon Historical Society's then Head of Archives. The photo was taken over 150 years ago. It is in the public domain and out of copyright but comes from the OHS collection who asked for them to be credited when used. I have made this clear and and it has been part of the article for years. Please reinstate it into the article. Thankyou. William Macadam (talk) 12:02, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Round Table
I was very surprised to see the Round Table movement not already mentioned in Macadam's article at all before the edit. Certainly the activities of this network are extremely significant in world history. Their magazine did not drop the subheading "A Quarterly Review of the Politics of the British Empire" until after the Second World War (when the British began to pretend they were no longer an empire, going the "soft power" route). I don't see a problem with mentioning the Annual Register in the introduction as well, if you so wish. Claíomh Solais (talk) 23:39, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Copyright problem on Ivison Macadam
Material you included in the above article appears to have been copied from the copyright web page http://www.moot.org.uk/about/history.asp. Copying text directly from a source is a copyright violation. Unfortunately, for copyright reasons, the content had to be removed. Please leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions or if you think I made a mistake. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 22:40, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

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Chatham House - Its History and Inhabitants
Hi, this was by C. E. Carrington, see the notice on the Chatham House website here, and the entry for the original 1959 work in the National Library of Australia catalogue here. DuncanHill (talk) 15:27, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your message - you make some good points, so I've moved Carrington's article to Charles Carrington (historian), and added a bit to the lead paragraph as well. Would you be able to expand the article? It looks like the sort of thing you have the knowledge to take on. All the best, DuncanHill (talk) 17:49, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

"Duncan, I have expanded the C.E.Carrington article as you suggested. I hate doing this as it required much rearranging of the hard work someone has already put into it. However I do believe it better represents the entirety of this distinguished man's career and hope the earlier posters recognise that and are not upset. There was much as you will see that was not it the previous entry.

"I also notice that a number of Wikipedia entries in the past, as his did, describe someone as a military officer or soldier in brackets after their name which is misleading as it indicates that that was their career when they served their country only in time of war. I am sure my edit can be improved but it better represents the entirety of the man, I hope.William Macadam (talk) 21:15, 10 December 2017 (UTC)"William Macadam (talk) 21:21, 10 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I think the article now does a much better job of describing his whole career - I'll keep an eye open for any other useful sources that could add to it. I'm sure that no-one will be upset by seeing an article improved, certainly whenever anyone expands and improves any of the articles that I have started I'm actually rather pleased to see someone taking an intelligent and constructive interest. DuncanHill (talk) 23:03, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Help me!
Please help me with...

I have a new Wikipedia page entry that I want to move from my Sandbox for publication. Titled:William Macadam 1783-1853,

I forget how and do not want to lose my work. Could you kindly assist so months of work does not get listen process.

Many thanks.

William Macadam (talk) 19:20, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

William Macadam (talk) 19:20, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I’ve moved it to Draft:William Macadam, the preferred location for drafts. It’s already submitted for review, so an AFC reviewer should get to it at some point, and it can then be moved to mainspace. Yunshui 雲 水 19:44, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Would someone kindly advise how to start a second Sandbox entry while an article is transferred waiting for Review?
I want to start a new Sandbox while I have the Draft article (above) showing transferred and submitted for review from my existing one. Can someone advise proper procedure to be able to use my sandbox for another article? I seem to be trying to create second sandbox incorrectly or is it safe to just edit and type in above the transfer text in my existing one? Many thanks, William Macadam (talk) 15:38, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You can have as many sandboxes as you need. Your main sandbox is at User:William Macadam/sandbox, and to make new ones just add something after "sandbox", eg User:William Macadam/sandbox1, User:William Macadam/sandbox2, etc. You can click on those redlinks and start editing. DuncanHill (talk) 13:29, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Elliott R. Corbett
Hi William, it certainly looks ready to transfer to mainspace. You can do this with the "move" button - this is one of the tabs at the top of a page (exactly where depends on the preferences you have set on Wikipedia). There's a description of how to move a page at Moving a page. Once you've done this you'll need to add wikilinks from relevant articles to it. It will also need categories adding. If you have any problems moving it let me know and I'll try to help. DuncanHill (talk) 13:26, 15 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Looks fine! I've done a couple little pieces of housekeeping on it. I'll leave the unreviewed tag at the top for now - although I cold remove it, I don't usually take part in the "article review" process, I'd prefer to leave that to someone who specialises in it. Are you OK about adding categories? DuncanHill (talk) 13:58, 15 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Categories are a way of grouping people, places, etc together by a shared characteristic. There's some guidance about doing it for people at WP:COP. I'll add some to the article so you can see the sort of thing I mean. DuncanHill (talk) 14:15, 15 February 2018 (UTC)


 * You can see from the page history the categories I've added. These usually appear at the bottom of the article. Each is added by an edit like this. I use a tool called HotCat (it's linked in the edit summaries) to make this easier. There are a huge number of categories, and some of them have a huge number of members, so it's best to put an article in the "deepest" categories applicable only - so for example Category:Businesspeople from Portland, Oregon is better than Category:People from Oregon. It's good if you do put them on articles you create - but don't over worry if you're not sure what categories to add. It's the sort of thing that article reviewers will often do, as will other editors who come across the article. I hope this all makes sense! DuncanHill (talk) 14:31, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

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William S. Ladd
Hi, I've fixed it - see the article talk page for the explanation. All the best, DuncanHill (talk) 18:48, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

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Picture credits
Hi William, thanks for your message. Picture credits and copyrights are a bit out of my area of expertise. As far as I know any attribution or copyright details do go on the Commons page, or the file page here if the picture is not on Commons, not in captions. If you're unsure about anything to do with copyright or permissions then Media copyright questions is the best place to ask, I've found it very helpful before. May be a bit busy with real life for a bit. All the best, DuncanHill (talk) 13:54, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

SJ Morg Your latest edits of my work on Henry W. Corbett and Elliott R. Corbett
"SJ Morg, you have removed credits under photos in Henry W. Corbett Wikipedia entry and also in Elliott R. Corbett entry. All these in the case of Henry W. Corbett have been there for over four years, except two new ones which were added this year. They were credits that I agreed with the Oregon Historical Society as a condition of releasing those photographs from their collection for use in the public domain with credit to them. Others are as a condition for for professional photographers to have taken a photo commissioned by me and then kindly placed in the public domain (in Wikipedia Commons) as mutually agreed as a waiver for payment etc.

"Both articles had been reviewed by Wikipedia senior editors, accepted, and graded without any interference since the photos were put up. Indeed, you had regularly also made some punctuation or other minor correction without finding a problem in them.

"I did not want to undertake the Elliott R. Corbett entry but was contacted by historians in Oregon asking that I do so. Especially as Wikipedia had an entry on his house and such things as the First National Bank Building, his grandfather and brothers. This was because I had access to the Elliott R. Corbett Archives that I had been sorting and archiving with the intention of having them go to the Oregon Historical Society in Portland Oregon. It was felt that since his papers were here that I was the only person that could accurately do an entry. So I undertook this very large undertaking which hopefully other Oregon historians and researchers will be able to add to in due course.

"The Wikipedia Manual of Style that you quote as reason for this large edit and elimination of the credits states This guideline is a part of the English Wikipedia's Manual of Style. It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply.

"It seems to me that common sense has not been applied here and you have to realise that your activities, when excessive, can be seen to be meddlesome, a nuisance and make contributing to Wikipedia a very unpleasant experience, although I am sure that is not your intent. Surely you can have the courtesy to inquire on an editor’s talk page if the party would have any objection to amending their work in a major way? Wikipedia is a broad church of volunteers and it is important to take into consideration a broad range of views and consideration for the contributors’ exhaustive work in making the page possible. The edit suggesting change in format that you quote as suggested re Wikipedia picture credits was only made, I believe, in May 2018 and should obviously not apply to any entries made previously in any case.

"To give you a few examples, imagine my surprise to get an automatic email notification from Wikipedia that an entry on John Macadam, a Scottish-Australian individual had been corrected by you. I had been asked by Australian and British historians and academics if I could do some further research on the individual and expand the original entry. I knew next to nothing about the subject but did so and it took many months of research in mostly Australian papers and their learned societies’ journals. My research, as most that I have researched for Wikipedia was peer reviewed by the historians and academics.

"Obviously, you like to read and correct my work even though this seemed far from your usual constant interest in changing entries that have to do with Oregon, which I understand is where you live. What was your correction? It was correcting the spelling from that of Australian usage to American spelling. Why would you do this? Except that you have constantly been doing so over the years. I suspect that you believe Webster is the only correct spelling? The article says on the edit page . Someone – or something – notified you and you changed it back but these fiddles often seem petty and unnecessary and can be annoying when incorrect. There are different ways of spelling English, although Oxford English Dictionary is usually an acceptable standard internationally when not indicated otherwise but may not always be desirable. Even in the mother of the tongue in Britain, Oxford English or Times English are both used, in the US Webster reigns, in Canada the Gage Canadian Dictionary / Canadian Oxford Dictionary rule and so on. There is no Commonwealth English as your correction seems to infer. There iare different common spelling usage in all English speaking countries and of course actually different word ie lorry in Britain and truck in the US which should both be avoided if possible for a common generic word such as vehicle. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Spelling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_titles#National_varieties_of_English etc.

"I took out red headings of names in, the Henry Failing article, as I thought they were only left in in error when someone thought there was a page on the person, otherwise if they are left in all over the place it seems slovenly editing to me as anyone wanting one in should take the trouble to research a write a properly sourced page. I was unaware that this was a purposeful edit by you. I was able to put a link to the Portland Terminal Company (builder/owner of Portland Union Station), which could have been done with a bit of research by you rather than just reinserting the red heading, I would have thought without me having to do it?

"However, the New York Times article of 19 June 1888, I had researched for Henry W. Corbett and reproduced by another in that article had a W.H. Holcomb (one of your red fellows) elected to the board of the Oregon Steam Navigation Company. However, you have changed this to William H. Holcomb (still adhering to red without an entry for him). Unless you have researched and confirmed that, it is he, it can be misleading to change a newspaper report. It would be perhaps proper to footnote him as “Possibly William H. Holcomb” or if you have further evidence “Probably” and add something about him. Surely historical newspaper reports should not be rewritten unless you know the new name to be a fact as it may mislead future historians or editors (and always wise to bear in mind that the NYT report could have had the initials wrong in their report, even if there was better proof reading in those days)?

"I hope you will take this in the constructive spirit that it is meant but the problem that you create by constantly fiddling and correcting spelling, minor stylistic grammar, adding red name entries etc., comments on whether a photograph of a north and south elevation of house is necessary such as in the Hamilton F. Corbett entry showing his house – obviously in the view of the author, in this case me, it was felt it was desirable as it was a very a-typical house in the Northwest US by an important international architect and the first time an image of it had been put up in Wikipedia. Something important for many readers and historians, especially architectural ones.

"You have changed my text a number of times without indicating that you had in the articles Revision History. The only way I knew it was you was that I got a notification from Wikipedia but there is no record in the Revision History. Somewhat unsettling. I have in the past always let your amendments go.

"I have researched Oregon’s and Portland’s rich history for fifty years with the help of its prominent historians past and present. I have been trying to get down much of what I have into the public domain while I am still able. For instance, the Henry W. Corbett entry was the result of painstaking research that took twenty years to get just as far as it is with numerous visits to Portland, the Oregon Historical Society archives etc from abroad and references to hundreds of books and documents. It is by far the most comprehensive history on this significant early Portland pioneer in one place anywhere and it is on Wikipedia.

"There is much in the Oregon Wikipedia entries, of which you seem particularly interested in editing most entries, that needs attention and additions. For instance, to name but one, the Portland, Oregon entry’s history of Portland’s first one hundred years is very inadequate indeed and is misleading as is. Portland, the then largest city in the Northwest was referred by most early historians as a highly civilised city and likened to Boston on the Pacific. You can see just how much so by looking at the entries of the Oregon and Portland pioneers such as H.W. Corbett, W.S. Ladd, Cicero H. Lewis, Henry Failing, etc. etc. or reading any of the histories covering the early years of Portland and Oregon many sourced there. It had thriving businesses, cultural institutions and important architecture. Its 1905 Lewis and Clark Exposition, its World Fair put Portland on the international map in but half a century after its incorporation. None of this a worldwide reader looking up Portland, Oregon would be aware of from the Wikipedia entry, which only refers to the waterfront and its, in effect, red light district. This surely could have been something constructive that caught your eye and should have concerned you to see it was remedied and take precedence over fiddling with other people’s sound bodies of work.

"I was going to take a stab at remedying this by adding to that entry, among others, if I had the time to do so. However as an eighty-year-old historian and lifelong historical and investigative researcher, I will not do so now because you make the Herculean effort to add and research fully referenced work, so distressing and annoying. I, like any author, warmly welcome any input that can improve an article. Sometimes indeed you have, for which I am most grateful, but too often it is meddling for meddling’s sake, it seems to me. I am sure that you mean well but these constant interferences in search of a reason to do so are unpleasant when it is others who have done a colossal amount of research, work and writing an entry. I have never come across anything but courtesy and helpfulness with my work from Wikipedia editors outside of Oregon, which has to be one of the most courteous of places, but it can be unpleasant experience for an Oregon subject knowing that you will likely have something you will want to change sometimes when it actually negates my word and undertaking.

"I am afraid I feel duty bound to re-insert the some of the photo/image credits as I had agreed with the parties supplying them to mutually acceptable terms. Picture credit terms which make not the slightest bit of difficulty to any reader. Some additional credits were put in to standardise the entries throughout. These I can look at taking out if they bother you but it would seem better to follow a standard throughout the entry. The edit change you quote as suggested re Wikipedia picture credits was only made, I believe, in May 2018 and should obviously not apply to any entries made previously in any case.

"However, I do not want you to edit my entries any further, if you do not mind, without discussing it with me first. Of course, if you want to take this to third party arbitration that is your right but I sincerely hope that I am not put through that added bit of aggravation.

"I also hope that this does not sound like I am not appreciative of some of your trouble in looking the articles over. It is just that there has to be ban end to it and you have seen most of these photos in the article credited like this for at least four years and no objection by any of the Wikipedia senior editors or appraisers has been made and there has to be a stop to these constant changes for change sake, I am sure you will agree on reflection.

"Best regards, William Macadam (talk) 12:00, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Between late May and now, I was busy preparing for a trip, taking said trip, and unpacking from said trip, so I couldn't spare the time to fully read – and compose a reply to – your long message of 3 June until now.

You imply that my edits to two of "your" articles were extensive, but they undoubtedly affected less than 1% of the text. I essentially made just one major change, to remove all of the photo credits (per MOS:CREDITS, as I noted). I started to make some changes to bibliography and reference 'style' elements (punctuation, abbreviations, etc.) because your style was so very different from what I have seen in bibliographies on the hundreds of other articles I have read on Wikipedia, but stopped after just a few changes, deciding it would be too much work. You could easily review and revert those changes in 30 seconds.

First and foremost, I urge you to read Ownership of content.

The main problem is that you made promises, to persons supplying you with images, that you did not have the legal right to make. No editor has total control of any Wikipedia page, and it is impossible for you to guarantee that image credits will be included in any given Wikipedia articles. That's not how Wikipedia works. I have written close to 100 articles for (mostly small-circulation) print magazines, and although the editor has the final say in each case, I can at least be sure that what ends up in print won't be changed later by someone else. The fact that that is not the case with Wikipedia, that anyone can come along later and 'muck up' what I wrote, is certainly frustrating at times, but I have to accept it – as do you. If no one pointed this out to you before now, that's unfortunate, but don't blame me; I'm just the messenger.

You say that other "senior editors" have reviewed and rated your articles. Well, anyone can rate a WP article (it's very informal), and I know that many editors bestow ratings on articles based on only a quick look-over, judging mainly by length, general standard of writing, and (number and apparent quality of) sources. Details such as the inclusion of credits in photo captions are often not scrutinized until an article is nominated for Good Article status. I can tell you that, should you ever decide to nominate one of "your" articles for GA status, you (or whoever nominated it) will be given a list of things that must be changed before the nomination is approved, and that will include bringing the article into line with the Manual of Style, which will include removal of photo credits.

My removal of photo credits did not lack common sense, as you suggest. I've been editing here for almost a decade, and "your" articles are practically the only Wikipedia articles I have ever seen that included credits in the image thumbnails in the article. So, such credits are extremely non-standard, and there is no good case for an exception here; the fact that you made promises to the providers - an error on your part - is not a sufficient argument. I challenge you to find even half a dozen other Wikipedia articles (out of the 5.7 million), ones not edited by you or your associates, that include image credits. The inclusion of such credits is effectively non-existent on Wikipedia. Also, the MoS policy on image credits has been around for many years; you inaccurately suggested it had only been created in "May 2018". The following text, which is the current version, has effectively been on WP for more than 10 years, as shown here (June 2008): "Unless relevant to the subject, do not credit the image author or copyright holder in the article. It is assumed that this is not necessary to fulfill attribution requirements of the GFDL or Creative Commons licenses as long as the appropriate credit is on the image description page."

Even User DuncanHill did not support your position, when he replied to you on your talk page (on 18 May) with "As far as I know any attribution or copyright details do go on the Commons page, or the file page here if the picture is not on Commons, not in captions." (boldface added by me)

You make all sorts of assumptions about my intentions and biases that are false and unfair. For example, (quoting you:) "What was your correction? It was correcting the spelling from that of Australian usage to American spelling. Why would you do this? Except that you have constantly been doing so over the years. I suspect that you believe Webster is the only correct spelling?" To the contrary, I have been contributing to British transport magazines for 35 years, and I always try to use British spellings in such cases, to the best of my ability. On Wikipedia, whenever I am editing an article that is about a British subject/topic or a European one, I deliberately try to use British English, even though it is not native to me. For example, I wrote the article Thomas Cook European Timetable (a respected British publication), and I tried my best to use British spellings, terms, and DMY date formats - all of which took some extra effort on my part. And yet you make broad assumptions about me based on a tiny number of edits to just three or four articles.

One cannot get an accurate sense of my editing habits based solely on looking at my latest few months of contributions. The nature and intensity of my editing varies through the year, and from year to year, based on how much time I have (I am not retired). I have written several complete articles (some of which I have noted in a collapsed table on my user page, many of which were already up to B-class quality when new), and when I write a full article, I do 99% of the work offline and then upload the essentially completed article in a single edit, making such contributions hard to notice when looking at the auto-generated "user contributions" data for me.

The fact that you criticize me for this edit to John Macadam is beyond the pale, given that a simple look at the page's history shows that I recognized that one of the two edits I made there was an error (changing to American spelling), and so I reverted my edit just five minutes later. No one "notified me", as you assumed; I simply recognized that I had made an error, and I quickly corrected my error. Although my standards are much higher than the average WP editor, no one is perfect, and I was a little careless there, thinking the topic was about an Oregon-related subject as the name Macadam is prominent here in Portland. But I readily admit that I acted hastily there, not paying attention to the actual article (and I even remember feeling chagrined when I had to revert that part of my edit 5 minutes later, because such carelessness – albeit on tiny scale, a single word in a long article, which you have blown out of all proportion – is rare for me). Half of the same tiny edit to the article, which I described as "correct[ing] a grammatical error", was correct; I changed a comma splice to a semi-colon. The comma splice was indeed a grammatical error.

"Commonwealth English" is short for English in the Commonwealth of Nations (which article was originally at Commonwealth English, before being renamed). I've heard a few other WP editors, in Commonwealth countries, use the term. It may be used only informally, but the term does serve a useful purpose of broadly referring to, e.g., spellings that are all the same in British, Australian and Canadian English, but differ from American English, such as with metre vs. meter and colour vs. color.

As to your reference to "red headings", I will just say that "red links" (as they are called here) are considered useful by many editors, as explained at WP:REDLINK. The person putting in (or reinstating) a red link may have no interest in doing the necessary research for an article, but they are still improving Wikipedia by consciously including the red link, which helpfully tells readers there's no need to take time checking to see if an article exists on that person, and might also encourage someone who does have interest in the subject (and access to good source material) to create an article.

And, by the way, I did undertake research to ascertain that the W. H. Holcomb referred to in the Henry Failing article (in connection with the Oregon Railway Navigation Company) was William H. Holcomb. My expansion of the red link there (in this edit) was an improvement to the article, for the reason I stated in the edit summary. One way that red links are useful is that, when one clicks on such a link and then clicks on "What links here" in the sidebar, it shows other articles containing that same red link. This is a very easy, quick and useful tool for any editor who is considering researching and writing an entry replacing a red link, as it provides one method (albeit far from sufficient by itself) for judging whether creating the article would be worthwhile. It shows that such an article wouldn't be a near-orphan when new, and suggests the topic is a bit more likely to be notable than if "What links here" produced no results. The red link "William H. Holcomb" is currently linked from three articles. WikiProject Oregon even includes a page called WikiProject Oregon/Redlinks list, since other users find it informative (in a small way) to identify article subjects that don't currently have an article but are mentioned in several. I cannot access the 1888 New York Times article, but assuming it said "W. H. Holcomb" rather than William H. Holcomb, I would have no objection to someone's "piping" the red link so that the visible text reads "W. H. Holcomb". However, as I did do the research required to confirm that the named person was William H. Holcomb, I feel my spelling it out was fine, even if the cited article didn't spell out the first name.

You claim that I "changed my [your] text a number of times without indicating that you had in the articles Revision History." This is absolutely false. I always leave an edit summary for every edit. 100% of the time. Not full details, but always a general description, usually with "copyedit" when I changed the article text's wording in "your" articles.

I agree with you that there are some Oregon-related articles that could use a lot of improvement (including the history of Portland, which is far too thin on WP), but Oregon already has much, much better coverage on Wikipedia than geographic areas of similar size and population, and I am one of the most active contributors to Oregon-related articles (but am far from limited to that area). The very, very few edits I made to "your" articles took only a few minutes, whereas the kind of research you suggest that I undertake would consume days or weeks. I am spread way too thin already, as I am still working full time, and Wikipedia is only a spare-time hobby.

Your characterization of my edits as "interference", "meddling", "constantly fiddling" (with another "author's" work) and of me as an "individual who seems to want to meddle in everything I do" (in your post to User DuncanHill on 18 May) is completely uncalled for. In every case, I was either following the Manual of Style or what I had observed – over many years of editing here – as common types of small cleanup to articles.

You are far too defensive about articles that are not your property, and unaware (or unwilling to accept) that your edits have (apparently; I have not done a thorough review) often been out of sync with Wikipedia's Manual of Style, which has been developed over many years, through consensus among thousands of editors. None of these articles is "your" article, and the sooner you accept that, the better. Writing for Wikipedia is very different from writing for print publications, as I said earlier. If this discourages you from editing, you would not be the only person to feel that way, and it would be unfortunate for Wikipedia, but it's not my fault, and I have nothing to apologize for.

I intend to avoid any future editing to articles for which you have been the primary contributor, not because you have convinced me I was wrong, but because I don't consider it a worthwhile use of my time to argue with, or enter into lengthy talk-page discussions with, another editor. If you were to take this to third-party arbitration, you would be unhappy with the result. It is clear that I am far more familiar with Wikipedia's editing rules, policies and guidelines than you are. My edits were not only entirely reasonable but were actually attempts (in most cases) to bring the affected article into compliance with a guideline that had previously been reached through consensus among many editors.

For the benefit of anyone else who might be reading this, I'd like to point out that in all of my very few edits to the 2-3 articles concerned, apart from correction of typos and similarly clear errors (such as this and this), my edits affected a total of about 10 words in the bodies of the articles (in this edit, this edit, this one and this one; photo captions and bibliography entries or references/notes are generally not considered part of the body of the text of an article), in very long articles (75,000 to 100,000 characters). Ten words. This makes your criticism out of proportion in the extreme. I can't imagine how you will react when someone else comes along in the future and rewrites entire paragraphs of one of those articles.

Again, I urge you to read Ownership of content, because it's clear that don't understand one of the key ways in which editing on Wikipedia differs greatly from writing for print publications (or Editor-controlled, non-wiki websites). Like you (it seems), I have worked with both. – SJ Morg (talk) 10:17, 21 June 2018 (UTC)


 * SJ Morg, Thank you for your detailed response to mine above. It was good of you to explain your point of view and take the trouble to do so at such length. I do appreciate that like so many contributing to Wikipedia, you have made a substantial contribution to it and I thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. I in turn apologise for the delay in acknowledging your message. I am only now able to get to my computer to do so and to send this as I have had dear friends from abroad staying here, who I have been taking around historic places, and they only left earlier today. Many thanks for your reply. Best regards, William Macadam (talk) 13:42, 24 June 2018 (UTC) - William Macadam (talk) 13:47, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion of File:Hamilton Forbush Corbett (1888-1966).jpg


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