User talk:Willscrlt/Archives/2009-06

Outline update - Good news and bad news - 06/08/2009
The big push continues.

And it seems to be working!

The good news is that there's growing support for outlines, and there are more editors than ever editing them!

The bad news is that the complainers are disproportionately represented on the project's various talk pages. While many editors work diligently on the front end, a handful of complainers are trying to tear down the project behind the scenes. Fortunately, barely enough supporters have been watching those pages that no consensus for moving or merging the outlines has succeeded. So far...

Big problem: ignorance of what outlines are for and their benefits
Most of the opposition seems to be unaware of the complete range of what outlines are used for. They just don't get it.

This is why it is important to complete the outline article draft. An article with a comprehensive treatment of outlines would be the perfect place to refer anybody unfamiliar with outlines to.

Opposers also don't seem to understand how outlines differ from some other page type that they prefer. Some think articles are good enough as an overview, others think portals are more in-depth, still others think categories or navigation boxes are the most efficient and useful way to organize and present topical information. Some have simply never seen an "Outline of" page before and think they are a new type of page (they've been around under other names since 2001).

If you run across anyone who doesn't understand the role of outlines on Wikipedia, Why do we have outlines in addition to...? might help reduce their misconceptions or uncertainties about outlines.

On the bright side, you've got to see this...
To add the outlines and related support pages to your watchlist (takes less than 30 seconds), cut and paste them from WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist into your raw watchlist. For a way to improve the display of your watchlist - by namespace (very useful) - see Watchlist sorter, or use the "super fast upgrade" at WP:OTS.

Or go to WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist using Related changes (currently without the talk pages) and click on "Related changes" in the toolbox menu on the sidebar on the left side of your screen.

The big push
The big push started with about a thousand banners and notices being placed on article talk pages all over Wikipedia.

But it didn't stop there...

Welcome our new members...
The following Wikipedians have joined the OOK team.

Be sure to stop by their talk pages and introduce yourselves.


 * Tarheel95 - going after the Main Page.
 * Vivio Testarossa / Feinoha - here to help.
 * Burningview - made a splash at MfD with WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Drafts/Outline of British Columbia (see the talk page for the MfD link - lots of support there).

Enter the mentors!
I asked a bunch of mentors at WP:ADOPT for advice. Several of them answered on my talk page. Most of those who replied were happy to help, and posted some very good ideas. A couple even joined the project.

Here are their ideas, and what is being done about them. A few of the tasks still need volunteers:


 * Strdst grl: Create and place project banners - already ✅
 * Strdst grl & The Earwig: put an animated ad for the project in WP:BANNER - Our graphics specialist Penubag is looking into it.
 * Strdst grl: Create a userbox for the project - assigned to Penubag.
 * Garden: Ask to have outlines added to next year's WikiCup competition - ✅ (proposal posted)
 * Tarheel95: Add a link to Portal:Contents/Outline of knowledge to the Main Page - Tarheel95 is taking on the creation of the proposal
 * SriMesh: Create an outreach subpage to WPOOK - ✅ (invitation coming soon, see below)
 * SriMesh: (Create a newsletter archive subpage) - ✅
 * SriMesh: Add a feed to AlexNewArtBot to gather links to new outlines and post them on a page. Then personally invite new creators to the project. - who wants to tackle the feed?
 * SriMesh: Assign someone to monitor the outlines via watchlist, and invite new outline editors to the project - any volunteers?
 * Related: Create an invitation - Penubag is working on it.
 * SriMesh: Create Template:Expand outline similar to Template:Expand list, which adds each outline it is posted on to Category:Incomplete outlines, where editors (who are browsing the categories) can find them and work on them - to be assigned
 * SriMesh: Add the above template to incomplete outlines - upcoming AWB task
 * The Earwig: "Tell your wikifriends about it" - I've told mine, have you told yours?
 * The Earwig: "Collaborate with other WikiProjects" - we've been doing this from the start (each outline is associated with at least one other WikiProject).
 * : move the projected outline to a subpage of WP:WPOOK - ✅

Linking to outlines has begun
To the tops of about 30 subject articles, I placed a test batch of hatnotes leading to the corresponding outlines. The hatnotes look like this:


 * For a topical guide to this subject, see Outline of X.(Hidden: <!- PLEASE LEAVE THIS LINE IN PLACE because it leads to the page that serves as the table of contents for Wikipedia's overall coverage of this subject. Thank you.-->

The rationale for the hatnotes is that each outline is a topical guide for its subject, and since tables of contents go at the front of a book, a link to each outline should be placed at the front of its subject.

Unfortunately, not all editors agree. Some of the hatnotes have already disappeared. :(

Some past discussions pertaining to the existence or location of outlines
Note that the "Lists of topics" are of two types, including outlines and indexes, so discussions to remove, move, or merge those are usually relevant to the OOK. Also, outlines are a type of list, so discussions that affect lists in general also pertain to outlines. We've got to be on our toes!


 * Move navigational lists to portal namespace
 * Articles for deletion/Outline of Islamic and Muslim related topics
 * Articles for deletion/Outline of South Africa
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic visual arts and design topics
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic mining topics
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic management topics
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic industrial topics
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic computer science topics
 * Articles for deletion/List of basic Canada topics
 * User talk:The Transhumanist/Archive 21
 * Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Drafts/Outline of British Columbia
 * Talk:Switzerland
 * Outline of science converted to redirect by Dbachmann
 * Village pump (policy)/Archive 64
 * Administrators' noticeboard/Archive193
 * Village pump (proposals)/Archive 47

I've excluded links to live discussions, out of respect for WP:CANVASS.

Table of contents to OOK-related stuff
Here's a directory of outline support pages:


 * Portal:Contents/Outline of knowledge
 * Lists
 * WP:CLN
 * Stand-alone lists
 * Outlines
 * Why do we have outlines in addition to...?
 * Comparison of Wikipedia's and Britannica's outlines of knowledge
 * WP:WPOOK
 * WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Projected outline

Keep up the great work!
The Transhumanist 04:12, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

WPOOK advert banner under development, here's the beta...
Thank you to those who suggested WPOOK have an animated advert banner. Penubag got working on it right away. Here's what he's come up with so far:

Penubag needs feedback.

I've posted a few changes for him to make to it.

Please post additional comments and suggestions for him at User talk:Penubag.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist 02:15, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline collaboration!
As you know, Penubag is working on a banner to advertise the Outline WikiProject. And he's almost done.

The banner prominently presents the "Outline of chocolate", which of course will become the most widely advertised outline as soon as the banner goes live. The first thing many editors will do after seeing the banner is look for that outline.

The problem is, we don't have one.

So that's our first outline collaboration!

I started a draft this morning.

It needs to be finished and moved to the article namespace before we can start using Penubag's banner ad!

Come join in on the fun. It's chocolate!

The Transhumanist 21:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Request to participate in University of Washington survey on tool to quickly understand Wikipedians’ reputations
Hello. I'm part of a research group at the University of Washington. In April, we met with some local Wikipedians to learn what they would like to know about other editors’ history and activities (within Wikipedia) when interacting with them on talk pages. The goal of those sessions was to gather feedback to help design an embedded application that could quickly communicate useful information about other Wikipedians. We have now created a few images that we feel represent some of what our participants thought was important. We would appreciate it if you took a few minutes of your time to complete an online survey that investigates whether or not these images would be useful to you. Your quick contribution would be very valuable to our research group and ultimately to Wikipedia. (When finished, the code for this application will be given over to the Wikipedia community to use and/or adjust as they see fit.)

Willing to spend a few minutes taking our survey? Click this link.

Please feel free to share the link with other Wikipedians. The more feedback, the better! The survey is completely anonymous and takes less than 10 minutes to complete. All data is used for university research purposes only.

Thank you for your time! If you have any questions about our research or research group, please visit our user page. Commprac01 (talk) 01:06, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Additional details about our research group are available here.

Dear Mentor,
Thank you for your advice. We're putting it to good use.

I've run into a situation, and need your valuable insight.

One thing I've tried to do with respect to the outlines is place a hatnote on subject articles leading to that subject's corresponding outline.

Two people complained, and form the basis of consensus not to do it.

The main concern was quality: a hatnote shouldn't be placed unless the outline is of at least the same or higher quality than the article the hatnote is being placed on. That sets up a catch-22, since we need the best linking we can to attract readers and editors in the first place. The more traffic, the more feedback and changes.

So quality is the focus.

Please have a look at the outlines.

What are the biggest quality issues? What do the outlines need done to them in order to improve their quality?

I look forward to your reply on my talk page.

The Transhumanist 22:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

It's been awhile
My goodness! It's been 2 years? Well, school has taken a lot of my time and I've been starting on some new projects (Photoshop work mostly). I'll be sure to leave some time for some editing, you'll be seeing some new spots in my contributions soon. I have a week in Lethbridge, Alberta (I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba), so I'll definitely be on Wikipedia. I appreciate the help and hope your work here goes well. C 33 22 C3322 02:48, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

WikiBirthday
I saw from here that it's been exactly three years since you joined the project. Happy WikiBirthday! Keep up the good work, r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 14:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much! I have been noticing that little counter creeping up for the last couple of weeks. Then I was off-wiki for the last two days, and I nearly missed my own birthday. If it weren't for your note, I might have still missed it. So, thanks again. And a very merry UN-Wikibirthday to you. :-) &mdash; Will scrlt ( “Talk” ) 16:50, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

WPOOK's advert banner is done!


Is it perfect? Can it be improved?

Penubag loves feedback. Please let him know if it can be further improved.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist 23:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline collaboration #2: Outline of Gibraltar
This outline is approaching completion.

I added a bunch more links, finding them with the following Google site-specific searches of Wikipedia:
 * "of" and "Gibraltar"


 * "in" and "Gibraltar"


 * "for" and "Gibraltar"


 * with "Gibraltar" not at the end

(You can use the wikicode for the links above as the basis for new searches - just replace "Gibraltar" with any other country or region name).

Request: please redirect the redlinks! (bluelinking...)
The redlinks need to be bluelinked where possible. The most useful way is to create redirects leading to the material (which is usually included in a section of an article - see Redirect. That way, when the redirect pages are replaced by the actual articles, the links will already point to the right places.

Please take a crack at it, and bluelink a few.

Thank you.

Good luck.

Have fun.

The Transhumanist 01:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

P.S.: on an unrelated matter, where should the Outline of chocolate be placed on the OOK? -TT

I finally got to whack somebody with a trout!
That was fun. :)

The Transhumanist 23:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

 * Thank you for the advice. Good idea. I hadn't thought of that. I'll send you a link in the future. And I'll add a P.S. to future postings to provide that option to other recipients.  Again, thank you.


 * By the way, what do you think of the new Project page?


 * The Transhumanist 00:24, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Moving Geograph images to Commons
Just a quick note to say I replied on my talk page to your really helpful message. Euchiasmus (talk) 09:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Mentor
In the newsletter below I've detailed what's been going on with the project.

I look forward to your further warnings or advice. :)