User talk:Wizardman/Archive16

What is kept by a decision to keep?
Dear Wizardman, on Growing Earth Theory, or more precisely on Talk:Expanding Earth theory and Talk:Expanding Earth theory, MichaelNetzer and I have an honest difference of opinion on the significance of a decision not to delete a page. Since you were the admin who wrapped up the discussion (and I don't know where else to ask), I thought you could shed some light on it. Does a decision to "keep" an article mean to keep the content in some form, or to keep an article with that name? Should a new decision to merge the article go through the the WP:Deletion review process, or can we just decide to do it by consensus on the talk page? Thanks. --Art Carlson (talk) 15:28, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of bsnes
I notice you recently closed Articles for deletion/Bsnes as 'Delete'. Would it be possible to undelete the article so history is available and replace it with a redirect to List of SNES emulators (which IMO should be expanded) instead? I'll then watchlist the page to make sure it doesn't get unredirected without adding sources to establish notability (I'll probably insist they write a draft and DRV it unless it's clearly OK). Thanks. Anomie⚔ 22:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of Roundel: the Little eyes that never knew Light
Dear Wizardman,

I have not been long putting articles onto wikipedia, and never had one deleted, so I hope this is the right place to "talk" to you.

You have just had the last word in a very short discussion which was concluded by deleting the article I had written "Roundel: the Little eyes that never knew Light". Fortunately I have a hard copy of it because I would like to get it back. The article is self-explanatory as it should be, and I do not not know what the grounds are for deletion other than "it had no relevance", and it was possible at the time it was first considered for deletion it was incomplete. During the course of the discussion I added more to the article. I hope you will agree that in general an article may be relevant to an interested reader, but not to others, and that there exists a universal concept of relevance which is that of understood (even by the few), truthful, linked information.

In this particular case the article was one of a series discussing the songs of one of the greatest English composers, Sir Edward Elgar (1857-1943). I have at least 30 song entries these already. If you have a minute to spare, see the wikipedia entry on Edward Elgar, and his songs listed. I am a member of the UK Elgar Society and have the support of other members the Elgar Society in this project. The basics of each article is: when did Elgar wrote the music, who wrote the words, any items of relevant interest (maybe to the composition, the words, etc), the words written, references, maybe recordings. These articles are small but each represents substantial time and careful (I emphasize careful) work.

I would like to put the article back, as it is no "worse" or less lacking than many of the similar others, and I am sure in the natural course of time they will be updated by others, as there is a great interest in ths composer among those who appreciate the sort of music he wrote.

I am not complaining - complaining is for kids (maybe their parents at times too) - but I would please like some understanding. If I put the article back, in my imagination there could be a knee-jerk reaction to kick if off again or worse. If I put it back, I know it will be much the same, but I shall make sure it is a full as it can be within relevance. I can also undertand from the point of view of the administrator it could be easy to recommend an article for deletion with not enough consideration, since there for example there may be a pack of them come up and one has in the end to make quick decisions using the kind of instinct that comes with experience. Thanks.

I have to write to you, as I believe that article should be there.

P0mbal (talk) 22:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

ye olde rfa thank spam
nice userpage! i just wanted to drop in and thank you for participating in my recent RFA... I've left some templated thank spam for you below. you may also be interested in reading my in-depth RFA analysis (comments are welcome). cheers, xenocidic (talk) 23:47, 5 June 2008 (UTC) templated rfa thank-spam 

I would like to thank the community for placing their trust in me during my recent request for adminship, which passed 72 13 2. Rest assured, I have read each comment thoroughly and will be addressing the various concerns raised as I step cautiously into my new role as janitor. In particular, I would like to thank Balloonman for putting so much time into reviewing my contributions and writing such a thoughtful nomination statement after knowing me for only a brief period of time (and for convincing me that I was ready to take up the mop now, rather than go through admin coaching).
 * Thank you for your support

To my fellow admins - please let me know right away if I ever take any mis-steps with my new tools. Should I make a mistake, and you reverse the action, I will not consider it to be wheel-warring (but please tell me so I can understand what I did wrong).

To everyone - please feel free to slap me around a bit if I ever lose sight of the core philosophy of Wikipedia as I understand it - the advancement of knowledge through the processes of mutual understanding and respect. As always, feel free to drop by my talk page if I can be of any assistance. =)

Sincerely,

~xenocidic, 01:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

DYK update
Go ahead. No one had added anything for the last half hour and we're an hour overdue. Just thought I'd take the stuff from the bottom (some of which I did verify prior to adding). Daniel Case (talk) 03:24, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

While you're doing that I'm uploading and protecting the picture. Daniel Case (talk) 03:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd hold off on Wadsworth Chapel even if it is pretty old. We have Montecito Apartments] getting the picture slot in this update ... we don't need two LA NRHP listings. Save it for the next update. Daniel Case (talk) 03:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Restore of deleted article in user space request
You were the admin who completed the AfD process for Articles for deletion/Emma Hunton, would it be possible to get the contents of the deleted article restored into my user space. Thanks in advance. --Captain-tucker (talk) 15:30, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the quick response!--Captain-tucker (talk) 11:10, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Deletion review of List of environmental websites
Hi, the subject says it all. I'd appreciate it if you could put the text up on your userspace or something so that people can see it. Note that I won't be filing it until I can link to the deleted article. ImpIn | (t - c) 09:03, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

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Articles for deletion/Soundview School
Hi, I was surprised at this close and without a reason given as to why you selected delete it is puzzling. However, rather than having a further discussion at DRV I am intending to be pragmatic and simply add the sourced content to the locality article and create a redirect. I think that these are normal editorial actions. Are you cool with that? TerriersFan (talk) 15:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Detroit Tigers shortstops
I noted my comment on the Tfd discussion. I agree there's a problem with overuse of templates, but think this one is helpful if used selectively and judiciously. I also sent a neutral invitation to comment to User:X96lee15, as he is the one who's done the most work on the template since I created it a year or so ago. I know there's a rule against canvasing but thought he should get the notice, given the effort he's put into the template. To avoid canvasing, I did not include any commentary or advocacty in my note.Cbl62 (talk) 16:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

AfD close
Hi Wizardman, can I ask why you closed Articles for deletion/Ali Faik Zaghloul as delete 7 hours after I re-listed it with a specific comment that we should give some more time to allow input from editors knowledgeable about Egypt or at least with the ability to read Arabic? As I said I was on the verge of deleting myself but I saw no harm in holding off for awhile and hoped that listing the AfD at a different deletion sorting page might bring some more input. If Ali Faik Zaghloul really was a prominent Egyptian radio personality (which is certainly possible since there is an article about him on the Arabic language Wiki) and if we can source the article at all we would certainly not want to delete it. I did give this some thought when relisting and by closing as delete you are essentially undoing my action. I would be more okay with this if you would have explained why you felt the need to close immediately after another admin relisted, but instead you simply noted the result as delete. I'd appreciate a reply and will check back here.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 19:10, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks. I've restored the article for now so non-admins can view it during the AfD. This might well end up a delete anyway but I wanted to err on the side of caution on this one.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 19:22, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Adminship
Hey, thanks for the offer. It would be great to have the tools for the vandal fighting I participate in. I'm afraid I'm going to have to decline, though. I had an RfA oh, maybe a month ago, and I withdrew after it got to 4/8. Seeing as people don't think I'm quite ready, I think more time to show my experience would be needed. If you're still interested in a couple months, I have a few other people who want to nom me, so you can co-nom. Thanks again, Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  20:30, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank You
Thank you for your comment on my RFA. I will try to comment more on others DYK and try to write more of my own (which reminds me, I need to check if Cozy Dog Drive-in got any comments). Thanks again.  &lt;3  Tinkleheimer   TALK!!  18:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Closing CfD discussions
When you close discussions as keep, you need to edit out the CfD template in the articles. I see you have not been doing this and there are are ton of categories in Category:CfD 2008-05. Could you go through the ones you closed as keep and remove the template code? Thanks. 08:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Infobox Scientist
Hi Wizardman,

I noticed that you recently removed several photo placeholders inside Template:Infobox_scientist - I reviewed Centralized discussion/Image placeholders, and the use of placeholders are not recommended but the result of the discussion did not give a clear consensus for the mass removal of existing placeholders. Until a consensus can be reached, I'd like to ask you to stop removing the images, as you did in the case of several IEEE Medal of Honor laureates. (I have not reverted your edits - I'd very much prefer a status quo).

In addition, I think it would be best if you leave the "image" and "caption" fields in the infobox, even if they are not used - it will make the future addition of photos easier, without affecting the appearance of the infobox.

Thanks! --Jiuguang Wang (talk) 03:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Stub sorting
Howdy. I noticed that you tagged a few footballer/football coach biographies with stub, such as Serkan Atak, Mutlu Dervişoğlu, and Yasin Karaca. Since you're listed as a member of WikiProject Stub sorting, I thought you'd be interested to know that these articles admit much narrower stub templates, namely euro-footy-bio-stub. No worries in any case — I've already resorted the articles in question. Michael Slone (talk) 04:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

My RFB
Thank you for your comments in my RFB. Since it was only at 64%, it was a shoo-in to be unsuccessful, so I withdrew. I didn't want it to run until its scheduled close time because my intent in standing for RFB was to help the bureaucrats with their workload, not give them one more RfX to close. Through the course of my RFB, I received some very valuable feedback, some of it was contradictary, but other points were well agreed upon. I have ceased my admin coaching for now to give me time to revamp my method. I don't want to give up coaching completely, but I'm going to find a different angle from which to approach it. As for my RFA Standards, I am going to do some deep intraspection. I wrote those standards six months ago and I will slowly retool them. This will take some time for me to really dig down and express what I want in an admin candidate. If, after some serious time of deep thought, I don't find anything to change in them, I'll leave them the way they are. I'm not going to change them just because of some community disagreement as to what they should be. Will I stand for RFB again in the future? I don't know. Perhaps some time down the road, when my tenure as an administrator is greater than one year, if there is a pressing need for more active bureaucrats, maybe. If there no pressing need, then maybe not. Useight (talk) 03:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Please
add your opinion at the third question here.-- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 00:13, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: How many?
I think we can assess more than 2000 today! and sorry for those conflicts but I deducted them from my stats. And I'm assessing T right now. Good luck with your assessing. :) Solar  -Poseidon   15:52, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it was a fun and great competition and drive. But I think you will win because I'm going to watch the match between Sweaden and Spain and after that Greece and Russia. So I can't assess more articles. Can't wait for next drive :D! Solar  -Poseidon   11:41, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, Ozgod wasn't here for a long time but I think Psychless is here. And about drive. I think we can finish this and start new one because pervious drives were seasonal. But we can discuss about it with other participants in drive's talk page for better results. Solar  -Poseidon   11:41, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

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Protection levels on 24 and 29 February
I see you have been changing the protection level on all the pages related to dates.

Two of these pages -- 24 and 29 February -- were previously permanently semi-protected against editing by anonymous IP users. I'm not quite sure what you did, but one effect has been to remove this semi-protection.

Semi-protection was imposed by the admin User:Steel359 because one anonymous IP user with some crackpot theories about the history of leap days used every page related to leap days to promote his ideas, and it turned out there was no other way to stop him. He showed great persistence, until all pages related to topic, including these two, and his normal IP addresses were all blocked.

Please restore permanent semi-protection to these two pages.

Thanks --Chris Bennett (talk) 19:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: In relation to ArbCom
Thank you very much for your kind words! :-) Kirill (prof) 00:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Adminship
I am interested to become an admin. If possible, I would like it to start on either Thursday or Friday.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 22:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for telling me. I gave a supplementary co-nom.  bibliomaniac 1  5  01:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I passed my RfA with 64 supports and 1 neutral vote. Thank you for nominating and supporting me. I assure you that I will use these tools responsibly.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 23:40, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

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Allah lover → Islamofascism
I can't believe its appropriate to simply record threats in the RfD archive without taking any other action. (See the last item.) Kauffner (talk) 22:29, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Deleting Italian Argentine
I am outrage on the action that was taken in Wikipedia. How can you remove a page about a crucial population in Argentina. There are millions of Italians in Argentina, and they make 50% of the population. This is not fair. You should also delete Italian American and Italian Brazilian, too. It is not fair how I, the creator of that page, nor none of the contributers were informed. There was no reason to delete this page. I am really angry. Lehoiberri (talk) 22:54, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Deletion review for Italian Argentine
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Italian Argentine. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article, speedy-deleted it, or were otherwise interested in the article, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Lehoiberri (talk) 23:13, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Art Houtteman
May I offer my congratulations? Graham Colm Talk 19:59, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

List of Major League Baseball players: Z
You haven't done anything to List of Major League Baseball players: Z since early May, and the page undone looks tacky. Shall I revert it back to it's original state, or are you going to finish it up? Alex (talk) 00:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

WPBiography
Re this, not sure if you were aware of this. Carcharoth (talk) 03:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

My edit review
I wanted to thank you for the criticism (and I mean that in a positive, constructive way). I do have a question though: as you said, my work with speedies are not as good as they could be, and I will read up on the pages you suggested (WP:M and WP:CSD), but do you feel that this negative attributes are affecting my AfD responses and such related material? I would feel terrible if I was letting such inconviences halter the progress of those that have a better if of what they are doing in that area. Much appreciated, and happy editing, Leonard^Bloom (talk) 20:46, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Italian Argentine
I got your message. I'm sorry I was rude toward you. I didn't know it was mistake. I was overdramatic. Thank you for fixing the page. And again, I am sorry for being rude to you. Lehoiberri (talk) 22:10, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Newsletter
I think that'd be a great idea. It seems that a lot of projects suffer from people who join, make a few edits, and then stop participating. If we can keep people informed about the articles that get promoted to GA or FA every month, as well as the big developments within the Project, and even maybe important news from around the MLB it would keep people interested and involved. I've seen a few other projects newsletters, I'll look for a good example. If you asked the same thing on the Project's talk page I bet we could get a couple more people to help.  Black  ngold29   22:30, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, did you wanna bring this up over on the talk page or do you want me too? I found a few examples to show everyone. I would say something, but it's more of your idea, so I didn't want to step on any toes. Thanks!  Black  ngold29   04:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Romeo Foxtrot Alpha!
thanks for your kind consideration re: RfA -- I appreciate the vote of confidence, even if you do have to look into my (not so) sordid wikipast to be sure :) I'm pretty busy IRL at the moment, though, so I think I'll pass for now -- I likely don't have the time or patience to do the process justice. Try me again in a month or three. Cheers, -- phoebe / (talk to me) 02:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

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Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-06-17 Muhammad al-Durrah
Thanks, Wizardman - I'm not sure why I am considered an involved party in that dispute. I think I made one edit to that page that wasn't a vandalism reversion (though I did make a brief foray on the talk page to attempt to help as an uninvolved party). I'd appreciate it if you removed me from the case - I see that SlimVirgin is involved there, and I would prefer to stay about 100 miles away from anything she is involved in, I've had some nasty experiences with her and have been filled in on her reputation. My advice to you - be very, very careful. Thanks. Kelly hi! 18:59, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think such gratuitous character assassination does nothing at all to help the atmosphere and invites invective. Tundrabuggy (talk) 14:01, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

sounds good
yeah i doubt it's going to fix things though.

Wikifan12345 (talk) 19:03, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Rob Pelinka
It seems you failed Rob Pelinka without properly including a GA Review on his talk page. Could you either properly review the article or relist it for proper review.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:04, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you are suppose to transclude the review to the talk page because all other reveiwers have. I have done so on your behalf.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Brian Jun
Hi, can you explain this edit? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 04:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Al-Durrah clarification
Hello! On my talk page you said : " I posted in the talk page what I would like all participants to do to start." Could you provide a link to that? I can't find it for the life of me ;) Thanks. Tundrabuggy (talk) 13:09, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Scots-Yiddish
"Result was delete". Really? It looks an awful lot to me like the consensus was for a merge into History of the Jews in Scotland, especially if you focus on the !votes added after Doric Loon provided sources. —Angr 18:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, but I see it HAS been merged, so that's OK. However, surely the original page should have become a redirect?  --Doric Loon (talk) 18:29, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If you guys want to redirect it, fine. Most of The ones that asked to merge just stated merge with no reason though, at least those that said delete provided a reason. I had no plans to vote-count there. Wizardman  18:33, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Hangar 9 Sundowner
I nominated this article for deletion back when it was a mess, but since it's been cleaned up, I no longer favor deletion. You closed the debate as delete, and I was wondering if you could consider restoring the article, because when others favored deletion it was back when the article was a mess, and since the nominator intended to withdraw the nomination. - Diligent Terrier (and friends) 20:32, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

AfD advice page
Hello! As you are now the second admin to have ever unblocked me (Durova being the other), I invite you to comment at User talk:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles/Deletion discussions should you ever close an AfD I participated in a think of any advice as to how I strengthen my arguments (Chaser is also invited as he is my mentor through the adopt a user program). You are of course not obligated to comment there, but you are someone whom I respect and whose opinion and suggestions would likely influence me or at least be those that I would seriously take under consideration. So, if you every feel like providing helpful feedback, please don't hesitate to do so. I made a general table of my AfD participation at User:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles/Deletion discussions; obviously it is currently incomplete as I have probably participated in more than twice that many AfDs by now, but I keep updating it as best I can. Best, -- Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles  Tally-ho! 22:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Squirrel's Heath Primary School
Delete seems overly harsh given that only four editors expressed a preference for this and three favoured merging and redirecting. Would you please reconsider your close, as a merge and redirect are fairly usual with non-notable primary schools. I'd be happy to do the trimming, merging and redirecting myself if you restore it. Thank you for your time. RMHED (talk) 00:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Notable High School Football Coach
I saw that you had removed my request for an article about Bennie Edens, stating only "Super rare for high school football coaches to be notable". I agree that it is super-rare. I also feel that it is super-rare for anyone to serve as head coach at the same school for nearly 50 years, to win NFL High School Coach of the Year amongst a large number of other awards, to have a stadium named after him, etc.

I carefully reviewed the notability criteria before making the request, and posted a short paragraph of his achievements to address this exact concern. Coach Edens passes at least two of the notability tests: he has been "the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject." Also, he has "received notable award(s) or honor(s)".

I am not going to try to revert your edit, because I am fairly new at this and have no wish to get into an edit war. However, it seems to me that your stance basically, was, "He's a high school coach, so not notable, by definition." You obviously didn't even read the paragraph describing his notability, or if you did, you hadn't read the Wikipedia guidelines on what constitutes "notability" recently enough. Please, will you rollback your own edit so my request can stay out there, or even better, can you create the requested page with no further ado?

Thank you. Rnickel (talk) 21:26, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

SarekOfVulcan RFA
Thank you for !voting on my RfA. If you supported, I'll make sure your confidence is not misplaced; if you opposed, I'll take your criticism into account and try to adjust my behavior accordingly.

See you around the wiki!--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 00:12, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Manuela Testolini
It makes sense to create a redirect of Manuela Testolini to Prince (musician) as she is mentioned there. I'll put that in place now. As you deleted Manuela Testolini following the AfD, I'm letting you know. If you have any problems with this, please let me know. Regards  SilkTork  *YES! 11:38, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Energy Victory
Hi, you deleted a picture I uploaded under fair use guidelines. It was tagged as "no justification" but I had provided one when prompted that it was in danger of being deleted. Could you please restore the image?--Yeti Hunter (talk) 08:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your !vote at my RFA
Thank you, Wizardman, for your support !vote at my RFA. --lifebaka (Talk - Contribs) 18:46, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Tables for the List of MLB Players
I hope you don't mind that I took your idea here and ran with it. It looked like a good idea, and I have the time, so I'll continue moving forward on it whenever I can. Dewelar (talk) 19:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

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Happy Independence Day!
As you are a nice Wikipedian, I just wanted to wish you a happy Independence Day! And if you are not an American, then have a happy day and a wonderful weekend anyway! :) Your friend and colleague, -- Happy Independence Day!   Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles  Tally-ho! 03:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Admin. Replied on my talkpage
Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 10:10, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Replace this image image
I noticed you have been deleting the image and caption from infoboxes when the image Replace this image male and female and after researching it I understand why. I will also start making the changes using AWB. I recommend however that you do not delete the locations for image and caption so that if someone has an image they can put it there. Many editors are not familiar with the structure of infoboxes so they might be less apt to add the photo. Happy editing.--Kumioko (talk) 00:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You might want to put in for a request for a bot to fix them.--Kumioko (talk) 02:07, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I just did a quick check and there are currently 39209 pages that link to the Male pic so thats a lot of pages to cull through manually. Are you using AWB? What does BLP stand for, I forgot?--Kumioko (talk) 02:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry to cut in - I had a conversation with Wizardman about the placeholders a few weeks ago, and although I have no serious objections over WP:UPPI, but I do want to say that removing 30k+ placeholders is not a particularly wise use of your time. Instead of removing the placeholders, perhaps you can work on replacing the placeholders with photographs (the IEEE Edison Medal is an excellent starting point). That's my plan, at least for now. --Jiuguang (talk) 18:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:Baseball articles
My reply here. -- RyRy  ( talk ) 03:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Greg Dalby
Wizardman, can you take another look at this? That player was an All-American, and got a national High School Player of the Year award -- that would seem to confer notability, despite WP:FOOTYN. There were enough keep votes, imo, that it should have been at least a no consensus keep.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * ...or at least could use more of an explanation. Wizardman - I've got no interest in challenging your decision or seeing this go to DRV, but a statement of your rationale in the AfD itself would be most welcome.  This article is almost certain to be recreated in a couple weeks after the player formally joins his MLS team, and an easy-to-find rationale for your decision on this one would be useful for when that happens. Townlake (talk) 00:52, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Townlake (talk) 15:18, 8 July 2008 (UTC)