User talk:WormTT/Adopt/Adam mugliston

Hello Hello Hello! Welcome to our chat page. Remember, this page is on wikipedia, so it is visible to all, but it's not obvious to all, so it does give us an element of privacy.

Firstly, a little about me. I'm in the UK, online during UK office hours. I have email enabled, feel free to use it. If I don't know the answer, I will tell you - if I think you are doing something wrong, I will tell you. You currently have a full supply of AGF from me, and it takes a lot to break through my AGF. (One user has managed it so far... I can tell you about him some time if you like)

I'll set up some titles below, which will help us move forward.

Questions from Worm to Adam
Ok. I've got a few questions to start out with. 1)Why do you edit wikipedia, what do you like about it?

A: I edit, becuase I like writing and sharing what I know and find out about bus routes. It's fun!

2)What is your ultimate goal on wikipedia? do you have one?

A: I have a list of pages I would like to create on my userpage. I would like to make all of them at some point.

3)What areas of wikipedia do you think are your strongest?

A:Editing I think.

4)What areas of wikipedia are your weakest?

A:Trying to get the articles I make not get deleted!

5)Any ideas what you'd like to get out of mentoring?

A:I would like to get my work checked for notability, get suggestions if it's not and maybe suggest some sources.

Questions from Adam to Worm
1. Could you please help me get MiszaBotIII to archive my talk page by date? I tried and it doesn't seem to be working.
 * Absolutely, I'll get right on it :)
 * Right. Miszabot hasn't run yet today, so that's why it looks like you've been missed out. I'd suggest an alternate configuration though.


 * This will ensure that you always have something on your talk page, and I think that the archive counter is much more sensible than the date based ones for all but the most active talk pages. What if you have a month without a message? what if you only have 2-3 messages in a month - it makes for a very messy set of archives. It also gives the archives a header, allowing you to navigate withilst in them, and also sets the archive size at 70k, which is readable but not horrible. If you like the new config, copy and paste it sooner rather than later :D

2. I know you didn't ask this to me, but I saw it and I'm answering it I have applied to Worm That Turned for adoption and have been accepted. I think its a good idea, but the only thing I'm not sure about is what they actually do? Would you mind explaining that, please?
 * Well, firstly, I want you to know that I tailor each adoption/mentoring to the person. I've got a good knowledge of wikipedia, so I try to help out editors, to ensure that they can benefit from my knowledge. Generally, an adoption consists of the following.
 * An adoption school of 8 lessons, each with their own tests, plus a final test to see if you remember what you've learnt.
 * It's an open-book set of tests, meaning you can look up what you like, when you like.
 * If you make it through the lessons, I think you will have as much knowledge as most editors on wikipedia, and should be able to handle the vast majority of situations.
 * You will get a mini-barnstar for each lesson you complete. :D
 * I will be around for advice, help, discussion or anything else. I've got experience in both content creation and the back end, so I'm a pretty good all-rounder. I'm also an tech-savvy chappy, so I can help with anything technical from tables to templates to signatures.
 * I will be watching you. Yes, it sounds sinister, but basically, I'll be keeping an eye on your edits to see if you go wrong anywhere. If it's a massive problem, I'll help sort it out, but that's rare. Generally, if I disagree with something you've done, I'll ask you about it and we can discuss the issue. If we disagree, that's not a problem, I can be wrong... it happens!
 * I hope that answers the question, but feel free to ask anything further.  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 11:48, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Cheers for all that. The MiszaBot template I put into my talk page, doesn't appear. Is that meant to happen?
 * Yeah, it's an invisible template that the bot can see. You needn't worry about it now (I hope). Hopefully you'll be in this run, but if not, you'll be in the next one.

3. I'm glad you said you're good with signatures, because I wanted to ask you about customising my signature. How to do that?
 * Ah, well that's pretty easy. Is there anything you would like in a signature, what sort of colours etc. Are there any signatures you've seen that you liked? I'll create a few test ones for you and you can choose which you want to use.


 * I would like green backround (RGB:ADFF2F) and blue text (00BFFF or 0099FF if it's too light). Thanks &#39;&#39;&#39;Adam mugliston&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 12:43, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I've had a look. It's horrible... so I've fiddled. Have a look at User:Worm That Turned/Sig Test to see a possible sig.  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 13:14, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Well how about Background ADFF2F and black writing?&#39;&#39;&#39;Adam mugliston&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 14:28, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Works better. Just a tiny bit under on colour difference, should be close enough that it is acceptable. I've put up the black and green for you. gives me a headache though ;)  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 14:48, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that! It's just that it's my absolute favourite colour in the whole world and I really wanted to use it. Has it got a talk page link? &#39;&#39;&#39;Adam mugliston&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 14:53, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Quite alright, it's your signature :). The triangle (play button) is a link to your talk page. If you like it, copy the code (without the *) to your signature under "My Preferences" at the top of the screen (make sure you have the "Treat as wikimarkup" box ticked) and press save.

4. What is AGF (what you mentioned at the top of this page, that I have a full supply of)?
 * I'm sorry, it's Wiki-speak for "Assume Good Faith", one of the most important tenants of the encyclopedia. In other words, I will look at what you do and work how "in good faith" you might have tried to improve the encyclopedia. It effectively means, if you muck up, I will have a heck of a lot of patience for it.  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 15:02, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh right, that makes sense. Well, I finalised my signature and here it is: Adam mugliston  Talk  15:19, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. If I needed to contact you by e-mail, where do I find it?
 * Either click on "Email this user" on the left, or email me at worm.that.turned@gmail.com


 * Oh and tell me about the user you lost your patience with. Adam mugliston  Talk  15:31, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Will do tomorrow :)

5. When and how are we continuing with adoption school? Adam mugliston Talk  15:20, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Once you've read through the main page, and are happy to proceed, let me know and I'll substitute in the test.
 * I'm happy to proceed. Will you automatically check when I done it, or shall I let you know? Adam mugliston  Talk  17:12, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I've got the page on watchlist, so I'll be checking regularly.
 * Well, I've done test. How did I do? Adam mugliston  Talk  08:51, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Very very well. You've got a few more tests to go yet though ;)  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 09:30, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

That user I ran out of good faith for
Well, I didn't lose my patience with him, never got angry - just disappointed. One of my adoptees, User:Mikeymand, was a young chap who's goals did not align with the encyclopedia. He made quite a few disruptive edits, and ended up going on a vandalism spree, ending in his block. I did assume good faith with him, all the way up to the spree. Since then, he has created WP:SPI/Wormy1011/Archive about a dozen accounts pretending to be me, vandalising wikipedia and harrassing my adoptees. Since then, I don't believe a word he says and would not be willing to trust him in the future. In other words, I would find it very difficult to assume good faith on anything he does. WormTT  &middot; &#32;(talk) 09:45, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow! Why would someone just want to vandalise Wikipedia? (retorical). Do you want to discuss the answers, or otherwise I'm ready for the next part. Adam mugliston  Talk  10:11, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * it's OK, I found them. Thanks for the barnstar!!! Adam mugliston  Talk  10:15, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, yeah, I generally hide the lesson once I feel you've learnt all you need to. I may leave some comments there though (which you've found). No problems on the barnstar, by the time you finish the course it will be a special 9-in-1 barnstar. As far as I know, it's the only 9-in-1 barnstar on wikipedia!  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 10:23, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

6. Barnstars. When you got one, do you leave it where you got it, or do you move/copy it onto your user page? Adam mugliston Talk  10:31, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * And also, I'm ready to go on with the next test. It aaid to tell you if I want to take the basics of markup language lesson. I didn't know if it's an optional one, so I'm just saying that I do want to take it (I'll take every single one you have) Adam mugliston  Talk  10:38, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Barnstars, it's up to you. For example, I've created a userpage for my barnstars here. Other people display them on their user page, for example one of my past mentees. Regarding the barnstar I've given you, best leave it where it is until it's complete, just because it keeps changing.
 * The lesson is optional, but I'll get it up for you in a little bit :D  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 10:56, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Done the test, it was easy. Would you mind running over question 3 with me? Adam mugliston  Talk  11:35, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Just realised, question 1 was Rod's Mate, wasn't it? As for Question 3, didn't think for that. What should I do next? Adam mugliston  Talk  12:25, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Bang on. I'll move the next lesson up for you :)
 * Thanks. New sig: Adam mugliston  Talk  12:45, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * That looks better, thanks for making the concession. If you get further complaints we'll deal with them then.
 * No problem. I'll get on with the Copyright lesson now. Will I get lesson 3a (I saw it on someone elses)?
 * You do have it, I've stopped calling it 3a, and just added it to all the lessons at the bottom, collapsed. :)

7. One question and then I can do the test: I'm going to get some photos (I'll take them myself) of Colchester buses, when I go there on the 7th. Do I have to publish them under a completely free license? Adam mugliston Talk  13:28, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, you don't HAVE to do anything. But if you would like them on Wikipedia, I would suggest that you upload them to Wikipedia Commons, under the standard "share-alike" license. It does mean that other people can take them and use them for whatever purposes (including sale), as long as they are attributed back to wikipedia (and therefore you). You can't use a picture of a bus under fair use, because a free copy can be obtained. Everything you contribute to wikipedia is released under the license, you can't take it back, and photos are just the same.   WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 13:35, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok. I'm ready for the test now . Adam mugliston  Talk  13:53, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I finished the test. I wasn't sure about the one with the Pope and the one with the prisoner. Adam mugliston  Talk  14:06, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I've replied to all your answers. You've done very well there, Copyright is a difficult subject.
 * I changed my answer to Q6. I'm ready for lesson 4. Adam mugliston  Talk  14:19, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm very impressed. I hope you've read my other comments, but I'll set you up with Lesson 4 :)  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 14:22, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, don't worry I always read through all the comments. I'll read through lesson 4 now, so I can do the test before you log off.  Adam mugliston  Talk  14:33, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I finished Test 4! I'm ready for Lesson 5! Adam mugliston  Talk  15:06, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

I've replied and I'll stick lesson 5 up now :)
 * I did the test. Hope I did well! Adam mugliston  Talk  17:25, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Worm, I finished the test for lesson 6. Adam mugliston  Talk  07:39, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I know, I've just put up the update. Sorry I'm not always around, especially at weekends - I'm afraid sometimes you just have to wait ;)  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 08:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I was just making sure you realised. I'll get on with lesson 7. Adam mugliston  Talk  10:56, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I did Test 7! Adam mugliston  Talk  11:23, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I did Test 7 again! Adam mugliston  Talk  19:16, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Still not quite there - you've not called the template for question 4 yet...  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 13:50, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sorry about that, I was busy and didn't have time to finish and when I came back I thought I'd done them all, so wrote here that I finished. Is there no barnstar for templates? I'll get on with vandalism (lesson, not real vandalism) now. Adam mugliston  Talk  10:03, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

8: Why do you sometimes put &nbsp ?
 * is HTML code for a "Non-breaking space", it's used when you want a space, but don't want a line break at that character. It's also used to guarantee a space when sometimes you can't in the code (whitespace in some coding languages is ignored)
 * Oh right! Adam mugliston  Talk  10:03, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

9: What does is within an HTML comment tag, which means it will not be rendered in the text. However, you can use it to leave a message to other people who are likely to edit a page.
 * I thought so, I wasn't sure. Adam mugliston  Talk  10:03, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Right, I'm ready for Lesson 9. Very sorry about all that stuff about reverting good faith edits. Adam mugliston Talk  16:43, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Ready for my final test! Adam mugliston Talk  15:28, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

10: How to make references from books? I mean how to actually make it a reference, because with websites it's easy, I'm just not sure with books. Adam mugliston Talk  16:08, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Goals for mentorship
These will be added to as we see them.
 * Run through adoption school

Dispute about buses

 * Adam is involved in a bit of an argument at Editor assistance/Requests and User talk:Charlesdrakew, it's probably something you guys should discuss. (Adam, one policy aspect you may need to check out is WP:FORUMSHOP ). --Demiurge1000 (talk) 16:44, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Cheers for pointing that out Demiurge. I'll look at it today and talk about it tomorrow when I'm back in the saddle.  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 13:50, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

New page patrol
When doing new page patrol, there's links at the top to patrol older parts of the backlog (5 days, 10 days, 14 days) rather than the newest changes. It's good to choose one of these because then you can be sure that you're not marking an editor's article for deletion in the first day (or even first few minutes) of existence.

On the other hand, more of the material in these older parts of the backlog has already been reviewed by other editors, so it tends to include more borderline cases. As always, deal with it cautiously and don't be too eager to assume something is a problem or should be deleted.

For new page patrol, one way of looking at it, is that the best options are at the top of this list, and the options later in the list are only to be used if there is no other way round it:
 * 1) Fix whatever the problem is. (Lack of sources? Google for sources and add them. Dead end? Add wikilinks. And so on.)
 * 2) Tag the page with informational templates about what the problem is.
 * 3) Use proposed deletion if the article definitely needs deleting but does not fit a CSD.
 * 4) Use AfD if the article probably needs deleting but does not fit a CSD.
 * 5) Use WP:CSD if the article definitely fits a CSD and no-one could possibly think it should be kept.

Of course, this doesn't mean we should prefer using PROD if the article is a blatant copyright violation or an attack page, and it doesn't mean we should prefer using AfD if an article is blatant nonsense - all of these should be CSD instead. Likewise, there's little point putting informational templates on an article that you're sure needs to be deleted anyway. But in all of these cases, you need to be certain - CSD for copyright violation and attack pages and nonsense really do have to be blatant, not just "I kind of thought it might be so I clicked it".

It's not a perfect science - I occasionally have days where I get pages I've marked as CSD A7 being declined (but then deleted at AfD anyway), but deletion discussions that I'd started minutes earlier drawing comments like "totally non-notable, should have been CSD A7" :) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:10, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Things to work on

 * Vandalism edits
 * CSD

I've noticed editors raising issues with both your Vandalism work and your recent CSD. Now, I've chatted to you about the vandalism, and I'm sure we won't have a problem in the future. :) Basically, as long as you remember you are being rude when you revert vandalism, and remember to only do it to blatent vandalism, you'll get along fine.

CSD is a different matter. You had got quite good with the ones I suggested, but I see you've had a little trouble on your talk page. Basically, tagging for CSD too soon is a little WP:BITEy, and you should be careful not to do it (people should have a little while to get their article up to scratch. (Unless it's an attack or clearly never going to get there) Redirects should generally not be deleted, but they have their own criteria

Basically, don't use twinkle unless what you are doing is blatent, and remember there's no rush. WormTT  &middot; &#32;(talk) 08:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I just realised I used the wrong criteria. But still, am I right that pages with just redirects should be nominated, but under R2 not A3? Adam mugliston  Talk  15:19, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * No, that's not right. Read what R2 actually says - it's for redirects from the main namespace to other namespaces. That redirect is not pointing to another namespace. (So for example if it redirected to my talk page, or Worm's user page, or Editor Assistance Requests, that would be redirecting to another namespace, and in that case, R2 would probably apply if there wasn't some good reason for it.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 15:47, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, oops. I thought that if there was to be a redirect it should be that when you click the link you get an automatic redirect to the appropriate page, rather than have a page that only contains a link. Adam mugliston  Talk  15:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, redirects can be quite confusing. I think there is a &redirect=no option (or something like that) which causes you to see the redirect itself, rather than going straight to the article. And new page patrol uses that option so that redirects are also checked to see if they are appropriate. (For example, redirects are sometimes used inappropriately to attack living persons by making an insulting term a redirect to the article about a living person.) In general if the redirect looks reasonable then it's fine to mark it as patrolled. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 16:52, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad you were watching Demiurge, I've been helluva busy all day. Anyway, I've tracked down the issue to a double redirect - If that's the first one you've come across, Adam, I'm not too surprised you were confused. At least that's sorted for now.  WormTT   &middot; &#32;(talk) 17:53, 28 April 2011 (UTC)