User talk:Worm That Turned/Archive 23

Possible RfA in future?
Quite some time ago, you performed a brief review regarding my potential for an RfA; you didn't think I was there yet, and I would agree. I'd understand completely if you're too busy right now, but would you be able at some point to check out how I am looking now? dci &#124;  TALK   22:38, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi dci. After I chatted to you in March, you went quite quiet for 6 months, a total of about 300 edits. Rfa has been fairly tough on candidates recently, especially ones who haven't shown the required experience. I don't think you're doing anything wrong per se, but I do think you'll need to be aiming for at least 5000 edits before running for RfA in the present climate. It's got to be a "keep doing what you're doing" for the time being. Having said that, I've only done a cursory review as I'm a touch busy at the moment. Worm TT( talk ) 14:29, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Adoption
I'm ready for the test.— cyber power Offline Merry Christmas  14:21, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Cheers for the kick. will put it up now. Worm TT( talk ) 14:23, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Carthage44
Hey Worm, what would you think about unblocking as time served per my comment. Ryan Vesey 03:40, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd generally be against it, depending on the unblock message. I've worked with a lot of blocked editors - trying to rehabilitate them into Wikipedia, and I think I had about a 50% success rate on them, which is pretty good IMO. However, it took significant effort on my part and even more effort on their part. With Carthage, I gave him a way back, I suggested he edit another project for a while to show that he could act civilly. He hasn't made a single edit to any other project. I'm not keen on unblocking indefinitely blocked editors unless they show that they are willing to change. Worm TT( talk ) 09:13, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Centre text
Hi Dave (or staplers). I added a green box to the top of here similar to my talk page one. Can you get the text to centre in the middle of the box? I tried aligning code (borrowed from tables) but it didn't work. Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 14:34, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * et voila Worm TT( talk ) 14:44, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That'll do nicely Thanks ツ Je no va   20  (email) 15:02, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Categorization of redirects
Right now Pedro Bugle redirects to Pedro, South Dakota. The Pedro Bugle would certainly be considered a defunct newspaper. My question is, should the redirect page be categorized as, should the target page be placed in the category, or should none of the pages be placed in the category? I also have this issue with Murder of Maria Ridulph. Should Maria Ridulph, a redirect, be placed into 1957 deaths? Ryan Vesey 22:00, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You know what, I didn't even think we categorised redirects - it seems like a very perverse thing to do to me. Worm TT( talk ) 12:40, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I wasn't sure either, but I just now found Categorizing redirects. So Maria Ridulph should be in the category.  On another note, do you or one of your staplers (or you and one of your staplers) want to share a DYK with me?  It meets the length requirements now; although, I'm not entirely sure it's comprehensive enough to not be considered a stub.  I'd also really like the article to be more complete before nominating it; however, I'm busy with finals these next three days.  Does anyone want to help me make it more complete before we nominate it? Ryan Vesey 16:35, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Flickr/copyright question
OK...so thanks to your advice i have someone offering to change the licence of an image i need to CC-BY at the strictest. This is the image My question is what would happen if he changed the license back after i upload it to a stricter one where we can't use it? Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 14:23, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, once it's been released under CC-BY license, he can't change it back (even if he does change it on the flickr site) I'm not exactly sure how evidence would work in that situation. I assume that the fact it will allow upload will be sufficient, but I cannot be certain. Worm TT( talk ) 14:35, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll ask at the help desk. I like that i can still stump you after so long =P Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 14:38, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Finally uploaded =D
 * It's too big for the infobox though so i'll likely just include it as a thumbnail. What do you think? Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 15:57, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you could make a montage, like the one on New York City? Worm TT( talk ) 16:04, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That's something i would never have thought of, and it's a brilliant idea! Do you 2 minutes to pick out a couple recommendations? Most are in my uploads section, the rest are here (point 9). Thanks a lot Dave ツ Je no va  20  (email) 16:28, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Hello!
I saw your name listed at the top of "Editors willing to be asked to nominate a user" section. I don't know if you're still actively interested but I will go ahead and try anyway.

Consider for adminship. I have interacted with him once or twice but followed his editing pattern. I think, with his considerable experience and amiable attitude (plus almost as charming a voice as mine ) he will really make a fine administrator.

The fact to note here is that I have never nominated anyone before and have generally avoided RfA with only a few comments in that category. Hence, it will be a great support if you reviewed his editing and nominated him and I can co-nominate with you. Cheers and thank you, Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 12:29, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello..yoho anybody home??? Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 18:59, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, didn't see you got back to Shirt58's talk. Can I also co-nominate? Would that be something you want or advise against? Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 19:07, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * i'd rather chat to him first, see where his interests lie, what he intends to do as an admin and so on. Assuming there's no problems (and i havent seen any yet), you are certainly welcome to co-nom, unless Shirt would prefer a single nominator. Worm TT( talk ) 08:34, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh goodness gracious me. I'd say my interests are in Australian history, politics, culture, literature and sports, Japanese history, language and literature, Korean history, language and literature, Chinese history, language and literature, C20 western Fine Arts, C20 western modern classical music, Jurisprudence, Cricket, Football in all its forms, invertebrate zoology, biographies of zoologists... and then there's stuff I wrote like Ego Leonard and Hevisaurus.--Shirt58 (talk) 12:27, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ha! Quite varied then! More importantly though, are you interested in being an admin? Where abouts do you think you'd work if you were one? Also, are there any areas that you worry might prevent you being one? Worm TT( talk ) 12:29, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi WTT and Mrt3366. Just to state this clearly. Yes, I would like to be nominated for adminship. I would be honoured if you could co-nom me.

Were this to happen, I might write this oppose:
 * While Shirt58 has a good record in administrative actions at WP:CSD and WP:AfD and so on, he appears to shy away from confrontations and disputes, and does not appear to have the dispute resolution skills that would be expected of an administrator.
 * His content contributions so far have not been a "net positive", but a "gross positive", with little or no disruption to the project. Nevertheless, it would appear that the majority of them are small stubs that the editor has started but seem disinclined to improve.

Are you two sure about the co-nom? --Shirt58 (talk) 12:48, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Cheers Shirt. I've like what I've seen so far, but I've been waiting for that say so before I get stuck in to a review. I'll get back to you shortly :) Worm TT( talk ) 12:49, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

SPA blanking large sections of Article Talk Page
Looking for guidance and restoring large deletions from an article talk page, WormTT. User:Ttellouc is an SPA who edits only Alphonso Jackson. I stumbled onto the page while checking recent changes for vandalism on 1 Oct 2012. Tried to intervene in contentious exchanges between Ttellouc and a couple of ISP contributors and thought it was working (gave each half barnstars). Alas, I now see that Ttellouc blanked much of the article's talk page including all of the exchanges and discussions of recent changes contrary to WP:ARCHIVENOTDELETE. He also deleted related exchanges from his talk page but it's his page and he has latitude to delete contents there.

Please roll back the Talk:Alphonso_Jackson page so the discussions of content are again visible. I can only revert the most recent. Then I ask for your advice. Should this go to WP:ANI? I would advise him first, of course. Or should I just warn him even though it will likely sound like a threat? I'm no longer a disinterested party since I edited the article and commented on talk pages of the ISPs and Ttellouc. Your advice would be appreciated. Will watch for your reply here. DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 06:30, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It was over a month ago... seems hardly worth mentioning. I've reverted and dropped Ttellouc a note. That's about it. Worm TT( talk ) 09:19, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 17:19, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Hand-coding
Hey all :).

I'm dropping you a note because you've been involved in dealing with feedback from the Article Feedback Tool. To get a better handle on the overall quality of comments now that the tool has become a more established part of the reader experience, we're undertaking a round of hand coding - basically, taking a sample of feedback and marking each piece as inappropriate, helpful, so on - and would like anyone interested in improving the tool to participate :).

You can code as many or as few pieces of feedback as you want: this page should explain how to use the system, and there is a demo here. Once you're comfortable with the task, just drop me an email at and I'll set you up with an account :).

If you'd like to chat with us about the research, or want live tutoring on the software, there will be an office hours session on Monday 17 December at 23:00 UTC in. Hope to see some of you there! Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 23:21, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Your adoption pages
Hi, Hall of Famer! I'm consider starting up an adoption course of my own and adopting a few editors. As I understand it, most adopters out there have copied your work, but just the same I'll ask first: Is it ok if I copy your curriculum? AutomaticStrikeout</b> ( T •  C ) 00:48, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * knock yourself out :). If there's anything I can do to help just ask <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 08:33, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll try to remember that. <b style="color:Red">Automatic</b><b style="color:Green">Strikeout</b> ( T •  C ) 04:02, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Shirt58 (talk) 08:01, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Sensible as always.  Come to think of it, I might put my acceptance off for a few days.--Shirt58 (talk) 08:48, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * of course. If there's anything you'd like to talk about my talk page or email are open to you, if you'd like to leave it even longer I can delete the RFA and recreate it when you are ready. You can even put off that decision ;) it's all up to you. If you do decide to run, make sure you answer the questions before you transclude! <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 08:58, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Shirt has commented on my talk that he wants to postpone it to 02 Jan 2013. What to do about this? Give me a tb when you reply in case you don't reply in an hour. Mr T  (Talk?)  [ (New thread?) ] 10:20, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Just leave it for now, it's not doing any harm. If Shirt wants it deleted, he only has to ask. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 15:43, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Malleus Fatuarum (current username Malleus Fatuorum)
Hi Worm! You previously suggested a two-way interaction ban between myself and the user originally known as Malleus Fatuarum, who is now using the name Malleus Fatuorum. I don't know what other names he has used, if any. (On my talk page you pointed out this diff where he said "Perhaps you assume too much. Certainly Malleus has never been an admin, and never will be, but I'm not Malleus. That's just the name of this account.") When you suggested the interaction ban, he was strongly opposed to such an arrangement.

He's recently re-affirmed his interest in my activities on Wikipedia, and on SandyGeorgia's talk page he appeared to be raising an interaction ban as a "threat" of some sort. I'm not really sure why he would think that would be considered threatening :) Sandy, being wise, archived the whole nonsense.

I've seen enough of this sort of immature behaviour, and I know exactly what an interaction ban involves, per WP:IBAN. How do we take this forward and get it put in place? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 04:51, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * WP:ANI Would be the right venue for it. Are you sure you want to take such a route? Sometimes, iteraction bans make more harm than good. — ΛΧΣ  21  05:07, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Hahc, thanks for your feedback on this! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:11, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Doesn't it seem even a little bit strange to you that rather than just not interacting Demiurge1000 demands an interaction ban? I've taken no interest at all in his Wikipedia activities, and I don't even know what they are. Until he turned up earlier on SandyGeorgia's talk page out of the blue on a matter that was nothing to do with him I'd completely forgotten about him. What I refused, and refuse, to accept is a two-way interaction ban. Malleus Fatuorum 05:15, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd rather recommend each one to stay away from the other if there is no way you can make a clean start and have a editorial relationship, with no disputes. Interaction bans are dangerous and unproductive, and should only be used when enforcement is needed. If a more relaxed way to solve the situation is available, then the ban would make no service. — ΛΧΣ  21  05:22, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Hahc! Great to see you here again. And indeed, I thank you once again for your kind and wise words. However, I had already written a reply to Malleus, so I will proceed to post it below.


 * Gosh, some amongst us read "You were very lucky to get away without an interaction ban" rather differently. I will withdraw the proposal for now, if you are still so strongly opposed to it, but in the long term I think it may benefit the encyclopedia. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:25, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Demiurge, it looks to me like you were the one who reaffirmed interest in Malleus's edits, not the other way around; it was a throwaway comment, not requiring any followup by you. If you just leave Malleus alone, I'm sure he'd do the same for you. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 05:28, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Gosh, really? I didn't see it that way, but I'll look forward to it. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:29, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Demiurge, I've never taken the time to fully examine the relationship between you and Malleus; however, I do understand that there seems to be some amount of bad blood. What that doesn't change is the fact that it is common for you to include some sort of unrelated pieces of information as if it somehow makes your point.  In this case, there was absolutely zero reason for you to use the section title "Malleus Fatuarum (current username Malleus Fatuorum)" and to again make the comment about the name change in the text of your statement.  When you put information like that into your posts, I find it impossible to assume good faith on your part and consider your actions disruptive. Ryan Vesey 05:32, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * You find it "impossible to assume good faith"? And then you decide that it's "disruptive" to suggest an interaction ban? That's... interesting. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:35, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, what makes you think no-one should be allowed to mention his past actions? Some kind of censorship? Or what? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:37, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * You have gone way beyond any mention of my past actions with comments like "I don't know what other names he has used", which I take strong objection to, as you are clearly implying that I am some kind of sock. Malleus Fatuorum 05:40, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * You're wilfully mis-quoting me. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:43, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * That's what you wrote, no mis-quoting. If you don't want to be quoted then don't write. Or at least think before you write. Malleus Fatuorum 05:45, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * That's a flat-out lie. While I understand that you hedged your comment with "if any", the spirit of your comment was the same either way. Ryan Vesey 05:47, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * You're on dangerous ground when you accuse me of lying. I will give you an opportunity to rethink that. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:51, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * It wasn't the interaction ban that I said was disruptive. I said it was disruptive to pull out his username change as if it was somehow related to the actions in question.  Imagine if every time someone posted about you they used a section header "Demiurge1000 (once blocked for personal attacks or harassment)".  Unless the issue is related to personal attacks or harassment, the statement would be disruptive.  On that topic, who is this personal attack directed at? Ryan Vesey 05:47, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * x4 You know what would be awesome? If you, Demiurge, would stop baiting Malleus with vague, implied, unsubstantiated accusations of wrongdoing and just drop it. I can't think of any other reason why you would bring up his old username other than to insinuate sock-based wrongdoing. If you want an interaction ban, just stop interacting with Malleus. It's that easy; no AN discussion required. Just...frigging...stop. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 05:48, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Writ Keeper, can I get a 2nd opinion on this edit? Demiurge appears to disagree with me. Ryan Vesey 05:49, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * "blocked for personal attacks or harassment" doesn't bother me at all, since I know exactly who used those words with regard to me, and I know exactly why. Funnily enough, they mentioned it the immediately following time they had another content dispute with me - maybe you should look for that? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:50, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but what? I created a completely hypothetical situation so I don't understand where you are getting this immediately following a content dispute information from.  If you see nothing wrong with a past block being referenced every time you are mentioned, then there's no point arguing with you about why mentioning Malleus' name change was inappropriate.  The only resolution will come when you someday get yourself into trouble for it. Ryan Vesey 05:54, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Go right ahead. You can either justify it or you can't. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:56, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No, no, no. Just stop.  Everyone stop.  The more attention we pay to Demiurge's antics, the more he'll perform. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 05:59, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * What about your antics? I'm growing more than a little tired of this. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 06:02, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I guess that the best way is to move forward. First, we had a dispute between Malleus and Demiurge; now I see that Ryan and Writ are here too. I am a bit concerned that, at this point, assuming good faith was left way behind, and nothing good will be brought from this discussion. I consider that we can move along with this; do you think the same? Or at least, if you want to continue, Worm's talk page may not be the right venue to accuse each other. I hope you understand that each comment written, is another step to more dispute, and possibly, disruption. My opinion is that extending the life of a discussion that should have ended several edits ago is not productive. Regards. — ΛΧΣ  21  06:01, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Hahc, I think you have a point there! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 06:04, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I have a better idea: Demiurge drops it. Like Ryan, Writ and Malleus, I take exception to how you started this whole discussion, from the backhanded reference to wrong doing to asking for an interaction ban without cause (and WP:AN is the place to raise a ban proposal, not WP:ANI) and the "other user name" comment is thinly veiled. This is what I call creating drama where it isn't needed.  If you need that there should be no interaction between the two of you, feel free to self impose it and start by not evoking his name in relation to administrative action on the talk page of an Arb candidate and highly active admin.  This is borderline baiting.  Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;  Join WER 09:17, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * This at least the fourth time Demiurge1000 has baited Malleus using the old user name. The second time, after I noted the repeated name-baiting, Demiurge1000 expressed surprise that he had raised the name before....
 * Demiurge1000 has a long history of this kind of passive-aggressive side-swipe, whether
 * maligning me and Lihaas (in my RfC) because of one of his hundreds of provocative user-boxes,
 * repeatedly maligning Volunteer Malek because he made a contribution to a site that also has nuts writing threats,
 * underhandedly alleging that Malleus is operating multiple accounts while again mocking his earlier user name (which apparently had an error in Latin), here even after his ANI-block (which was shortened because he expressed some understanding of his inappropriate behavior...).
 * There should be no problem with any administrator stating that Demiurge1000 shall face increasingly long blocks for any repeat of passive-aggressive behavior, e.g. his repeated denouncing of un-named "cowards" on Wikipedia, which has been repeatedly inserted on his talk page in the middle of this conflict. Kiefer  .Wolfowitz  12:47, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There wasn't an error in the Latin, it just didn't mean what he (apparently) thought it meant. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:01, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * My word, what a waste of everybody's time. I've got much better ways to spend my weekend, putting up Christmas trees and so on. Demiurge, if you think an interaction ban is a good idea, take it to WP:AN where you will have my full support but do try your best to be a little less demeaning. There's no need to keep bringing up Malleus' previous username. Malleus, it'd also help if you didnt keep dropping little digs about past disputes? So you both stop bothering each other and I can get back to decorating? Thanks... <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 15:30, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * And where exactly have I been "dropping litle digs about past disputes"? Malleus Fatuorum 18:29, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I imagine Worm might be referring to this, which, let's face it, didn't serve any other practical purpose at all. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:48, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Laughter is often the best medicine, and there was no reminder that your apparently serious insinuation was the origin of the Malleus as secret administrator joke. That joke will be around for years, just because it is funny. I'll bet that no mention of your part shall be made (unless during the next ANI discussion of your behavior, I fear). Kiefer  .Wolfowitz  18:57, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * "I'll bet that no mention of your part shall be made"; well, that would at least be a step in the right direction, although it hasn't been the case so far. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:30, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps everyone should just return to their previously scheduled activities. Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;  Join WER 19:34, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Drmies's jest referred to your suggesting an account named Demiurge100 as a MF sockpuppet, if my memory is correct. Your origination of the MF qua sockpuppet-master shall soon be forgotten, especially if you can begin your interaction ban. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk • contribs) 19:36, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

AWB
Hi Worm!

I've been wondering if you would me to file a request to use the AutoWikiBrowser tool. I would like to use it to speed up tasks such as, which I carried out yesterday and made around 500 edits manually. I have also worked in bot-related areas.

Thanks! Thine Antique Pen (talk) 20:04, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds like an excellent use of your time and skills. I certainly permit you to request AWB <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 08:41, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Working the graveyard shift once again? Ryan Vesey 09:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait, I just realized from the timestamp, it's no longer night there. Ryan Vesey 09:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope, it looks like graveyard shifts are a thing of the past (or at least a rarity) :) <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 09:18, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Yet?
It's off topic at that discussion, but your "yet" made me chuckle : )

And if the guides are to be believed, you have a much better chance than I do : )

Anyway, thanks for my smile of the day : ) - jc37 09:23, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know how much stock I put in the guides to be honest, I got the impression that the moved the votes up and down by about 5%... Either way, I always get the impression that the people don't get elected are the real winners, I think I enjoyed last year a lot more having not got in! Are you utterly sick of the waiting too? I do wish you the best of luck, whatever the outcome... <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 09:43, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I keep thinking about all those RfA discussions and proposals involving the length of RfA, and how even 7 days is just too long to be under such scrutiny... lol
 * And no worries about the guides, I left some comments about them on Jclemens talk page, but honestly, it's like any talk page, people are free to express their thoughts as long as it stays within our interaction policies.
 * As for me, I spent a lot of time asking others to run and got a lot of "no way"s. I only decided to run after Carcaroth and AGK (among others) nudged me that way. (See their talk pages for more info if interested.) Course at that point only 10 people were running for the 8 seats. How that changed lol.
 * So I'm not concerned at all if I don't. (Honestly, there are like a dozen or so community-wide RfCs I want to start and haven't as I've been distracted by this.)
 * And thank you. But afaik, I'm mostly an unknown figure since I don't hang out at all the cool kid places : )
 * Whereas, from what I can tell, you seem to. So I'd be very surprised if you aren't in this time. - jc37 10:10, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool kid places, ha! They're only cool because I make them cool... I think it's a great thing that you ran, even if things don't work out. Arbcom elections are far worse than RfA, going on for a good month and with discussions all over the place. It's really odd for me wandering into a page and finding I'm being discussed. I'm glad the question phase is over, that was fairly taxing with the sheer number of questions. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 10:22, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Lol, Im sure that must be it. You should pass out a schedule so that we all know when to show up for your illustrious presence : )
 * And thanks. Do you say that because I typically finished the questions first and gave everyone something to crib from? : )
 * I did a search to see what was being said about the elections outside of Wikipedia. There wasn't much (and very little about me). So once this is over, I can go back peacefully under the radar again : )
 * Nod the multipart questions were something. Though it was kinda nice to be able to have the opportunity to express my opinion. I find that it's rare that we as Wikipedians actually have the opportunity to express how we think about Wikipedia and it's policies and processes as a whole. (besides re-expressing what we know about policy etc)
 * And I was able to use my response to BSZ's second question (about civility) to answer part of the civility questionnaire : )
 * This time "in between", is actually kinda nice. Discussion is over, it's just waiting til they release the totals. - jc37 10:38, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, the totals are in and, so are you : )
 * Congrats, and let the rest of us know about that schedule : ) - jc37 21:37, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Getting old...
Today i realised i can't spell so good anymore... =[ Although it is nice to see there's people looking at the article. Even if they never rate it... ツ Je no va  20  (email) 16:01, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

And on a separate note...There's a plaque on the top right of This building, bearing the date "1931". Is that likely to be when the building was constructed? Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 16:43, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That's nothing. My Dad was at a bar one night in Portsmouth, Virginia.  Called Mom for a ride home.  Mom asked "where are you?" to which Dad answered "Portugal".  Dad had gotten home from a Med Cruise with a stop in Lisbon, Portugal a couple weeks prior.  So, Mom asked, "how do you spell that?" and Dad said matter-of-factly "Port...mulg".  He was in Portsmouth, though he was in Portugal.  Mom figured it out. :)  So, being one letter off one in a word is nothing...it could be worse. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 17:29, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Did you mean he though t he was in Portugal? Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 18:38, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup, he thought it was in Portugal. :) Oh and don't worry, about a month after this story took place, Dad stopped drinking for good.  23 years sober this September. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 11:19, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Here's a strange one...i'm kinda involved in a "Mailwatch" (something to do with the Daily Mail) blog post here...Luckily not mentioned by name (I don't want the attention)...ツ Je no va  20  (email) 09:14, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting. You can't hold an opinion on this site without getting slated elsewhere... <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 09:47, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Daily Mash does it right =P.
 * Can you comment on my last question about the plaque? It's in this same section. Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 10:18, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * As I understand it, that's exactly what the number means. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 10:20, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Brilliant. So last question...does Wikipedia have a process to use an image as a citation (should i need to)? Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 11:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd put that in without citation or with citation that is effectively a note saying the date stone confirms the building was finished in 1931 <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 11:31, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Okedokie! Thanks and have a nice day ツ Je no va  20  (email) 12:09, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Foundation stone is quite interesting as it implies this practice of indicating construction dates (in greatly different ways, including sacrifice of virgins!) has been going on for thousands of years. Certainly around where I live there are brick and stone residential properties that have "1890" clearly engraved on visible stones facing the road. Some sceptical friends of mine argue that these may be later additions, but I personally think it's quite plausible that's when the properties were built, and very obvious that people at the time put great store in marking the creation year of their property, just as previous generations had. (The engraved stones will doubtless have weathered considerably over 100+ years, but that means the changes will be restoration, not falsification.)


 * You're aware of the article Hurst Street, which gives a ref for "architectural details survive in the buildings on Hurst Street, as old as lintels of 1790s design and including an automobile showroom and a large Fisher & Ludlow automobile factory from the 1930s." If you can hunt down that ref, you can find out if the building is either of those. I would guess it's not the factory, but some factories in those days were a lot smaller than we would expect. The Birmingham motor industry was hit very hard by the inter-war depression, something that our article on Birmingham rather brazenly ignores. Maybe the portrayal of a UK-leading prosperous city is correct, but I'm not overwhelmed by the source for it.


 * I always think it's essential, if you are covering an area, especially one known for a minority, to cover what it was before, and what plans are for its future. This is something the BBC mostly attempt to do when covering areas with mostly Bangladeshi communities or whatever - they point out that before these people, the area was Jewish, and before that, it was Huguenots, and so there is nothing bad about one minority or another moving in or moving on. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:56, 19 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, there's also Midlands Enlightenment, which I'd never heard of before!


 * As for "other sites", I'll bet I get more exciting criticism there than anyone :) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:02, 19 December 2012 (UTC)


 * You can't always believe dates on buildings: a cottage round the corner is clearly dated 1552 on its porch. Apparently it was being renovated in 1952, someone asked how old it was, the answer was "about 400 years", and they went on from there! Pam  D  09:06, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the research you did =D
 * The old car showroom is the building with the 1930s plaque i posted up for Worm to see. Im pretty sure the factory you mention is the indoor car park where they painted a village mural, but that last one will take more research. And i am doing some work on the history but there's only me and a lot of sources to harvest, which is why it's in chunks.
 * And Pam, i would take that to mean 400 years, plus a few days, weeks, or months. It's probably not far off.
 * Thanks all ツ Je no va  20  (email) 09:35, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Trappists
Hey, Worm, if you're not too busy, could you keep an eye on this article? BACKGROUND: User:Curb Chain and User:Beyond My Ken have been edit-warring on it. BMK brought it to my attention; I replied with a fairly lengthy opinion about Curb Chain, along with my opinion about the issue itself, and also telling BMK that his use of rollback was inappropriate. As the edit war was about 20-ish hours stale, I didn't think any admin action was necessary. After posting that, Curb Chain reverted again; I issued both him and BMK a (hand-written) warning, saying that any further reverts would result in a block. Curb Chain questioned whether I was involved; I don't think I am, but of course, when you're involved, realizing that you're involved is the first thing to go. To be safe, I told him I would recuse from any admin action, and suggested that you would be a good admin to take a look at it with an unbiased eye. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 20:29, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Now watchlisted. I'll have a look at the full history in the morning :) <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 20:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Congrats
I'm sure your talk page and email will be exploding soon enough, so wanted to get mine in early ;) Dennis Brown - 2&cent;    &copy;  Join WER 18:54, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll reply more in the morning, but at the moment I'm busy feeling overwhelmed by the support I've received. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 19:13, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I expected you want to ponder on the fact a bit, it is a lot of responsibility and a lot of work, and it takes a bit for it all to sink in after a long election cycle. Honestly, I'm not at all surprised by the strong show of support for you.  I do feel it was well earned. Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;  Join WER 19:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Congrats Worm! You'll be a great arbitrator. Ryan Vesey 19:37, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

My condolences on your election. Have a great, stress-filled two years :). Seriously, though, congrats &mdash; Oli OR Pyfan! 19:45, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! You had my vote. Go   Phightins  !  20:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I dunno. Between you and NYB there are too many nice people on the committee... No, seriously as soon as I saw you were running I knew I'd be coming here at some point to congratulate you. It looks like a good group, if they had all been running already when I decided to throw my hat in I think O would have reconsidered. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:23, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Well done! Thine Antique Pen (talk) 20:39, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * ArbCom is a better place with you. <b style="color:Red">Automatic</b><b style="color:Green">Strikeout</b> ( T •  C ) 20:13, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Adoption
I guess since you are an Arb we should probably finish our adoption lessons so you can shut it down.— cyber power <sub style="color:red;font-family:arnprior">Offline <sup style="margin-left:-6.6ex;color:red;font-family:arnprior">Merry Christmas  13:58, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll look into marking your last lesson today... then it's just the big ol' final test... <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 13:59, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Bump.— cyber power <sub style="color:red;font-family:arnprior">Offline <sup style="margin-left:-6.6ex;color:red;font-family:arnprior">Merry Christmas  18:44, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I will get to this... <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 16:26, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Sig fail
Well how does that work out? Ryan Vesey 08:48, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, it happens. I quite like the 3,4,5 system... Fantastic AN/I post though <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 08:51, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you
Hi WTT. Thanks for your email. If the 2012 phenomenon doesn't happen, lets talk about things in 2013.--Shirt58 (talk) 13:29, 20 December 2012 (UTC) And just in case it does, I love you, bro/sis/gender identity of your lived experience, whatever, still love you.

Congratulations
Hi I didn't support you but I hope you will do well and change my opinion, and earn my respect as an Arbiter. As per our previous, I consider you involved in issues regarding myself and will request and expect you will recuse - Thank you for volunteering to help, good luck and best wishes - You  really  can  19:52, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi YRC. Just one small problem with that, I've no idea what you're talking about. What previous are you referring to? <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 20:18, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe YRC is trying to copy my alleged strategy of falling out with every administrator/artbitrator so they all have to "recuse"? Despite you being the root cause of my most recent visit to the ArbCom criminal court I did vote for you, as being among the least crazy of the candidates. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 20:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Opps, After a quick look I think I had you confused with another Admin, so please ignore the involved part of my comment - sorry for that missie. You  really  can  20:38, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's no big deal... though that vote could have been very important... I'll send round the heavies to make an example of you later. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 20:45, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ow noes, locking the door now - lol - haha - cool - well done - and thanks for the laugh - we need more of them round here - You  really  can  20:47, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I doubt Worm has any plans to send agents to Rio any time soon!


 * Congrats though, and an optimistic hope that you will be part of a new era of arbcom thinking together as well as just working together! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:59, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Redemption at last. I've come to realize over the past year one of the biggest bonehead moves I made was not voting for you in 2011. I'm glad I had a chance to rectify that this year and your bid was successful. Will you be starting an adopt an arbitrator program for the less enlightened on the committee? NE Ent 20:16, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Well done :) --Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:24, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I may well be wrong Elen, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you're not too disappointed. Malleus Fatuorum 20:45, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No, I'm really going to miss it....clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am.... Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:22, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations from me too! Well done. Bazonka (talk) 20:49, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Congratulations and sympathies! Good job being patient and sticking with it. Good qualities for an arb. :) --Elonka 20:54, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! :D — ΛΧΣ  21  21:12, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Congrats from a lurker! Intothatdarkness 21:22, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * With Worm  on  the committee I'm sure there's going  to  be a breath  of fresh  air. I  was hoping  to  be perhaps one of the forst  to  congratulate but  it's 04:48 (am) here and I've only  just  got  up  for another slog  at  Wikipedia. Well done! Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 21:49, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Welcome aboard, WTT. Watch that first step.  :-)  &mdash; Coren (talk) 22:01, 18 December 2012 (UTC
 * My congratulations Dave :) -- Gilderien Chat&#124;List of good deeds 23:03, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Congratulations! I hope they give you a T-shirt at the least! ツ Je no va  20  (email) 23:57, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * And yet more congratulations - I hope you don't regret it! Pam  D  00:07, 19 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Late to the party... gratz from the Puppy. I am so pleased you were selected, and sincerely hope you stay more or less sane find it rewarding. Killer Chihuahua 00:42, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Little late here, but congrats!  TheSpecialUser TSU 02:17, 19 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Congratulations. I think you were the best possible choice out of the entire group this year. I'm glad you decided to go for it. Trusilver  04:56, 19 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Congratulations, your arbshipness. Always nice to see a friend get a new hat. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:55, 19 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not surprised. I did vote for you.— cyber power  <sub style="color:red;font-family:arnprior">Offline <sup style="margin-left:-6.6ex;color:red;font-family:arnprior">Merry Christmas  12:43, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

We're nearly a day later and I'm still astounded by the amount of support that I've received regarding in these elections. Thank you to everyone who took the time to come over and say hi in the above sections, offering me their congratulations, I really do appreciate it. All I can really say beyond expressing my shock and pride at the result is to express my thanks to everyone who put their faith in me and I will do my utmost to make sure that it was not misplaced. Thank you all. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 17:02, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I echo Cyberpower678 right above me. I trust your judgment. This outcome (your election) gives the community (me at least) great hope. MathewTownsend (talk) 13:03, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, I hope you'll be a good arb.  Ebe  123  → report 22:10, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! Did I miss the voting? -- RexRowan Talk  16:07, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Belated congrats. You have no idea how happy I am to see this. You're the model for what an arbitrator--and editor--should be. Not only has this been resoundingly recognized by the community, but you've been placed in a more influential post where you'll be able to do even more good around here—and I have no doubt you will. Swarmx (talk) 07:48, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

C
How many bytes is a long long? I typed 64 why it says wrong answer? -- RexRowan Talk  16:05, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I haven't used C since I was at university, but C data types says it's more than 64 bytes bits... if I recall correctly, can't you use sizeof(long long) to find out? <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 16:11, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * asking at the computer desk will get you a more clever person :) <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 16:12, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, it's 8! -- RexRowan Talk  16:19, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Aha! the common bits/bytes problem. it's >64 bits and there's 8 bits in a byte. Rookie mistake! <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 16:22, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The precise answer is "it's implementation-defined, but guaranteed to be no shorter than a long, which is itself defined as 'no shorter than an int'". In general, on modern architectures, it's 8 octets.  &mdash; Coren (talk) 16:24, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I could say the best answer is "who cares, use java"... but yeah, that sounds right :D <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 16:25, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I code at the bare metal level. Java is anathema to me.  :-)  &mdash; Coren (talk) 16:26, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I have hear of Java! That is all, hehehe. :D -- RexRowan Talk  16:28, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There's also the part of the standard that mandates long long to be able to handle value from -(2^63 - 1) to (2^63 - 1), which makes it at least 64 bits under two's complement. With CHAR_BIT not necessarily == 8 though, can't actually answer the original question. KTC (talk) 01:51, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, that's why I specified octets. Then again, I very much doubt there exists a C99 implementation for the PDP-10 where sizeof(long long) could very well be 1.  Isn't being pedantically precise fun?  :-)  &mdash; Coren (talk) 17:42, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:red; background-color:fff; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

— ΛΧΣ  21  is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message. — ΛΧΣ  21  05:50, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Just an aside
Hi Worm, see you are trying to resolve an issue at the article on Trappist monks. I wanted to let you know that due to an unrelated minor wikidrama I'm involved with, I happened to notice your attempts to resolve this spat. Just wanted you to be aware that there is a "tag team" of User:Yworo and User:Curb Chain consistently harassing Beyond My Ken on some other articles, combined with some pretty serious (IMHO unjustified) allegations by Curb Chain against the admin who was previously trying to resolve this situation. . I'm not taking a position here, just providing you information on past patterns to factor in as you see fit. You did a really good job resolving an issue with me and another user once, and I think you have good judgement, so wanted to be sure you have the big picture here. Montanabw (talk) 19:30, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:red; background-color:fff; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

 TheGeneralUser  (talk)  is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Hey Dave! Wishing you a very Happy Merry Christmas :)  TheGeneralUser  (talk)  12:00, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Happy holidays
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

Some Christmas traditions are very difficult to explain. Kind of like Wikipedia policies. Wishing you and yours a joyous holiday season, and happiness, health and hopefulness in 2013. I trust you'll enjoy this little token, a favourite performance of Baby, it's Cold Outside, for your holiday amusement. For those of a more traditional inclination, I offer this rendition of my favourite carol. Best, Risker (talk) 15:38, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry Christmas
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:red; background-color:fff; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

<b style="color:Red">Automatic</b><b style="color:Green">Strikeout</b> ( T •  C ) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Happy Holiday!
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ツ Je no va  20  (email) is wishing you a Happy Holiday! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another Wikipedian a Happy Pastafarian Holiday, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person who likes noodles. Happy Holiday + New Year!


 * Spread the cheer by adding to Wikipedian talk pages with a friendly message.

Yo Ho Ho
Congrats on the Arbcom thingy <div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

 Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Xmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding to your friends' talk pages.

Merry Christmas!!
'''For all you do, Wormy. We need more Wikipedians like you :)'''

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<span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#ff55ff 0em 0em 0.8em,#55ffff -0.8em -0.8em 0.9em,#ffff55 0.7em 0.7em 0.8em;color:#ffffff">Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the Christmas cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas5}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Merry Christmas
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cyber power is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message. As one of my wikifriends, I would like to wish you a Merry Christmas. I hope you had a great one.— cyber power <sub style="color:red;font-family:arnprior">Offline <sup style="margin-left:-6.6ex;color:red;font-family:arnprior">Merry Christmas  01:41, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Happy New Year
Happy New Year Dave. Hope it's a good one and congratulations.

Should auld acquaintance be forgot, And never brought to mind? Should auld acquaintance be forgot, And auld lang syne!

For auld lang syne, my dear, For auld lang syne. We'll take a cup o' kindness yet, For auld lang syne.

-- Gilderien Chat&#124;List of good deeds 00:14, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Happy New Year and happy Arbcom Tenure
Hey! I just wanted to whish you a happy new year 2013.... and a happy two-year ArbCom tenure :) I see that you've already made your first contribution as an arbitrator. I hope this two years ahead of you bring you very much joy, experience and happyness. Good luck and happy editing. — ΛΧΣ  21  17:03, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

My GPG public key
For anyone who needs a PGP security, find my public key block below. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 13:08, 28 December 2012 (UTC) -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) - GPGshell v3.78

mQENBFDdlssBCADThR6JSyb8+pKLKPkQtG/as+e4MRO2X7GEKAmrG3mjGJPanXpB 4xrGhQTZ71EJo5QNkS/y5kB5g0xkIGgrb9V8Nj+xTnARuYzSxF84AzNfbYildWW/ ye0Py3Rvxz2R8bVbZz35hXZzoJ9JTAKDPQoo1Hu5/HpGpJSE7Zek8yXXjTAQ8LHm kGcSHwhgHsvb+AOLOef+CqVrGr4ZHJuhcbFd9rFgJjgOEww3o4KTETf7GepJ6HWf l69U9cCjfeEcOjypN+hxWAmQb4SQpUCXjMNncxm8SxkcWBq6zHrdfgT8mUGHWNp3 UEf28XDeTHiuIvDRnLnpx+MkHVM1CLCCg3x5ABEBAAG0PVdvcm0gVGhhdCBUdXJu ZWQgKFdpa2lwZWRpYSBLZXkpIDx3b3JtLnRoYXQudHVybmVkQGdtYWlsLmNvbT6J ATwEEwECACYFAlDdlssCGyMFCQPG9zUGCwkIBwMCBBUCCAMEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAK CRBCTqq8MhGWDNKGCAC3K9aOKGMDydjnEnrFGgqvOqtz22d9/aza6AZD9tXRe9u1 H/EMVSrtWWWtCQpWTbUbHwleEa46i8xjRA+bzvY+icJG1B4wZ9MoC8lWhQCy0HB3 vMP9gFmu1I8+wE91YFIc2XfHkAyXSHjNxbsDYpxq1ru1YFcGNv9U66vNzDfXi0nL gHxeNJEzz032pDZ2wGo8T/11yhjNf1PmtzqYQxTBgpkhGj/qkl1MJHllayrxNL0V p9SNMPFIWOyc/SgBN4kH3ePhzZcMgQzr4ykJTkLfR2XOA/vrnRMUIJth8lVexAbr Si5PDpE3LHiNWPou2yPjfwpYPRbwKkGRuY30xXg1uQENBFDdlssBCADCposOsGAP 2DMK4/DFjKEXFPko2cU5txuXJDXMC21sujJFPXVZPj+PgXEkOfE26+W1Pio6Ddzc /Z816lzEmVKgn5qJ/o0haIGZ+n+nmiOhdmE2HkXVZC/lM6Eoirocq32AW6I/7QLH fn8g2yKSAX0Vcummn58udl7RU2g/vgBky3w1/Yte4mOTrxchOF3L5IQM+mW3QF96 f/Ev8gA/E3a9Xr+qG5IZxIQpT5joR3KdB1FLO8/8qGwYtbN+OIpy6SQ6LA7sM0mf FfCWRS4gJBeBVeMr6j9bNg+rbc/EEh60W8vydM0/1LjCbnQQh1jtWD9kxBr40tEB pw7YUnL92QAVABEBAAGJASUEGAECAA8FAlDdlssCGwwFCQPG9zUACgkQQk6qvDIR lgzwdQgAqsUwZAZ53bppmRfqVtKz9gqMRYMk5OqOtlSSpxK+X5dSKtjBVHaciZIQ +UJQngJ1supwKkpo5XJOU1HGs7YkCwf2fkGVo+IyvoCGkDGxjpCz2YoN4Cwkcj30 Sc+te3RGZxambCddlMMhq7xCETu+35RHYS1uqfrGhPwUOS9vJoMBfKigL/DKJRsd gtdAAUeJEuMztDGz4eRMQto0GXW/wS6wOpHdvEknQNALn0y+ocSP7LK5mYPakGGx 6qlFVxi0YwnVMU1syEwuiMKjJu0fjtMJ1e4jxY0ME3IcPADOnC7N5lBodm1907r/ X+iFUnO33PeTPr9D36ErCbOtRtyEyg== =M3g7 -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-

Adoption
Can we finish up the adoption? I also left replies for you there.— cyberpower <sup style="color:red;font-family:arnprior">Chat <sub style="margin-left:-4.4ex;color:red;font-family:arnprior">Offline 13:26, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid you'll have to wait a little while longer, I'm a bit busy with real life and keeping up with Arbcom. I'll get round to it as soon as I can, but as you can see from my contributions, my activity has significantly dropped. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 14:08, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok. I understand.  Just let me know when I can do the final lesson.— cyberpower  <sup style="color:red;font-family:arnprior">Chat <sub style="margin-left:-4.4ex;color:red;font-family:arnprior">Offline 14:16, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

FYI
MathewTownsend has been blocked.-- Gilderien Chat&#124;List of good deeds 00:04, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm aware, have been for a little while. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 08:30, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Note from observer
Re ; it's been my observation that previous arbitrators would only bold an action when they are taking it. Usually I've either seen decline, or "inclined to decline" (as RD did above your post). I think you'll find over the next couple years that you won't need to worry about formatting for emphasis as much as every word you post officially is likely to be carefully parsed and analyzed. Welcome to the seventh level of hell the arbitration committee and please accept my apology for voting for you. NE Ent 02:24, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the hint. There's more than a little to get my head around but I'm sure I'll pick it all up! <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 08:30, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Infobox question
Dave, since you taught me this, can you tell me what's gone wrong with the collapsing section in the infobox below? (or fix it =P) Thanks and happy new year! ツ Je no va  20  (email) 16:33, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * What do you want it to do? -- Gilderien Chat&#124;List of good deeds 23:39, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well someone appears to have already improved it once. The only thing i'd like is for the collapsible section to look like the others, same spacing, same size etc. Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 15:49, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Did they? I wonder who did that... <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 15:50, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Dave did it. And a very nice job he did too. But is it possible to get it the same layout and size as the other rows? Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 19:08, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If it's not too much work, i'd like the history in the hidden section to be in line with the rows underneath. That's if you don't mind. Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 19:09, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I can do much better than this. The hidden template shrinks the text and aligns it oddly. Is there any reason you need it hidden? Infoboxes are for information, it seems odd to hide it. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 20:43, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That's perfect Dave. These are miniature infoboxes for notable buildings in the Village. In some cases the names have changed numerous times and so i would prefer to hide it. It's a test feature at this stage as i'm still pulling data together. Got any opinions or tips? Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 21:42, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

This is how it looks in actual use. It's a good reminder of which eras i need to research more for these buildings. Thanks for the help ツ Je no va  20  (email) 09:42, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Motion 2
Could you sign your comment on motion 2? I was going to add the unsigned template thingy, but I didn't think it would be appropriate or even allowed. Thanks -- Gilderien Chat&#124;List of good deeds 14:55, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Dang and blast, thanks for that. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 14:59, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Rename = Clean start ?
Hi, I wanted a rename, is this expressly forbidden by Arbcom as well ? I have banned from seeking renames until 2014 by a 'crat. --Simone 13:02, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Although I wasn't officially an Arb at the time, I think it was fairly clear that the committee felt that a clean start would be a way of avoiding scrutiny of your edits. Changing your username will have a similar (though reduced) effect so I can understand the crat's decision for 2013. If you'd like me to take it to the rest of the committee and come back with an official response, I'm happy to do so. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 15:14, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It is clear, I think, that this is beyond the remit of the committee, though there is no reason that they should not express opinions as individuals. I have commented on the desirability of a rename at the request for rename. Rich Farmbrough, 19:16, 4 January 2013 (UTC).


 * You may well be right, especially since it's the community that unbanned, not ArbCom. I'll leave this to take it's course. Thanks for updating my edit notice by the way, completely forgot about the BST/UTC changeover, and we're over half way to changing back! <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 19:42, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Belated Happy New Year with a Toast!
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:gold; background-color:white; font color:gray; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

~ TheGeneralUser  (talk)  — is wishing you a Happy New Year! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the New Year cheer by adding {{subst:New Year 1}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

A Very Happy (belated) New Year to you Worm! Enjoy the Whisky ~ TheGeneralUser   (talk)  23:42, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Just a meta-note
I was researching something for the amendment and I came across this I posted over two years ago. (Content not important, juts what it's about.)

"Kinda Important                              The above is reasonable guesses from reading the block log. I am going to address only the Uccha block, the first mentioned.                                The block was not due to any of the other factors that have been complained about - it was a one off that was quite reasonable, although a stop would have been just as good, Uccha was not to know that.                                The unblock was not to "willy nilly" continue but because the problem was fixed - the symptom however can recur. As I have pointed out many times, there is an approximately 0.3% rate of failing to get an article into it's correct dated category - and that I then sort those articles manually. (This is also explained in detail on my FAQ.) This is perfectly acceptable, because it does not require re-work and does not create any problems. That is what I referred to when I said "as far as it can be" - the symptom not the problem. Further I had discussed with the blocking admin about the problem before the block they said on blocking:

"As SmackBot was still doing the same thing, I've now blocked it. Feel free to unblock when you've fixed the problem. Ucucha 13:04, 29 August 2010 (UTC)"

There are two factors to consider here

because of the sheer volume of work there will be more incidents. (For example SmackBot gets a message about every 10,000 edits. I get one about every 200 edits.) Comparing them with a user who has maybe edited 120 article on tran-Siberian railways, making a total of 10,000 edits and concluding that I am a "worse" editor because there are more incidents is fallacious anyway. Even looking at the list in relative terms is not valid. This is elementary probability theory. Do I have to explain it or do you all get it?

Rich Farmbrough, 20:35, 24 October 2010 (UTC)."

(No-one called me on the proabability argument by the way.)

The meta-issue here is that I have just redone all the work to create this reply, for the amendment, and it was not really even necessary then (and I doubt anyone read it). And I have just gone through reading the comments in that thread, some of which are really unpleasant, and some of which are heartwarming. But overall once this amendment is over I'll really need a break from this process, which is the most soul-destroying thing I have ever done. Rich Farmbrough, 22:59, 4 January 2013 (UTC).


 * Thanks for that Rich. I do agree that the Arbcom process, indeed most dispute resolution processes on Wikipedia, are arduous and taxing on the subject. I wish there was a way in which it could be made less so, but since we have a culture of wanting to see evidence in the form of diffs, but most people can't be bothered to search but instead repeat what's already been said with their own personal spin, I don't see much of a solution. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 12:27, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Richard Rennison/GA1
I'm almost done with the GA review for Richard Rennison, just a few quibbles that need to be addressed. Drop by when convenient--thanks for your work on this one -- Khazar2 (talk) 20:50, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Fantastic news, will get to it as soon as poss :) <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 21:47, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you very much Khazar2, for all your hard work. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 13:38, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

An image file
Hi Worm,

I uploaded a file with permission from my friend, can you help me to keep it so it doesn't get removed? Thank you!. -- RexRowan Talk  12:19, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Have you contacted OTRS? (this will help) Once that's done, it's a waiting game. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 12:28, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have told Henry to email OTRS with the email template here . -- RexRowan Talk  12:41, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Until that's received, the photo might be deleted, but it can be reinstated after receipt, assuming there's no issues. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 12:49, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Can I copy and paste some content from his website with permission? -- RexRowan Talk  13:31, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Best not to. Technically it might be fine, but since text gets modified so often here it can be difficult to follow what happened, where the permission came from and so on. From there, there's the issue of plagiarism, taking ideas and passing them off as your own. It gets so confusing that people even start worrying about Self plagiarism! As a rule, I'd say no copying and pasting to wikipedia. Ever. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 13:40, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, I will write it myself! :D -- RexRowan Talk  13:42, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Opinion
Dave can you take a look at Talk:Mail Online when you get a chance please. I don't want to be heavily involved with it as i don't feel much will come of it. Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 23:09, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I can't really help out too much here, as I'm a little busy at the moment getting into the swing of things at Arbcom. However, one of my staplers might be able to lend eyes to the situation. My thoughts are that controversy sections are generally a bad idea, but if you can weave the text into the article itself that'd be much better. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 11:55, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm lobbying for a ツ Je no va  20  (email)''' 15:06, 6 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Would be lovely if a reliable source somewhere reported Jimbo's comments on the Mail - from memory, something like "we shouldn't be using it for BLPs, in fact judging by this we shouldn't be using it for anything at all"!


 * On a hair-splitting technicality, the current wording of Template:Db-g10 implies that articles about organisations (or publications) are only covered by this criterion if they constitute libel or legal threats (whereas articles concerning living persons can be covered under a specifically stated broader set of circumstances). How that would pan out in practice is quite another matter, however. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:46, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * A lot of my sources show incidents of either the Mail using people's copyrighted images without permission, or seeking permission, being refused, and using them anyway (and then being sued). I'm hoping i can get at least a decent amount into the article, or i'll push for a criticism article. It seems strange that such a controversial site (from a controversial paper) have no mention of any of the mountains of criticism easily found out there. I'm not sure how Jimbo's comments would be notable to be fair, even if sourced... Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 10:30, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Notability is a standard for the existence of individual articles, not for the inclusion of material in articles. If an independent reliable source reports on his criticism of the Mail, that's something that could (perhaps not "should") be used in an article about that topic. I would guess that criticism of the Mail is not limited to their usage of other people's images. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 11:33, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * No, there is a lot more. Image copyright is just something which showed a clear pattern from multiple sources so far. There's even evidence from one source that they used someone's copyrighted images after refusing her demands to pay for them (and obviously getting caught after she published the lot and threatened legal action). I'll see what the 3rd opinion says first, but if i get the brush off then there'll be an article created similar to Criticism of the BBC. Thanks and have a nice day ツ Je no va  20  (email) 13:26, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Block
Hello WTT. Can you please block the user Presidentsomeday0000? I think that user is not being a good editor. Thanks, (and hopefully this makes sense.)  CURTAINTOAD! TALK! 03:35, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * WTT isn't usually around at this hour, so I've gone ahead and blocked. --Rschen7754 03:38, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Rschen7754.  CURTAINTOAD! TALK! 03:42, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Doncram at RFAR
I've not taken part in any arbitration activity before and have only been watching it recently due to the Hex issue and while waiting for the Doncram issue to show up. As such, I'm not familiar with normal behavior there. Perhaps Nyttend is correct that I am incorrectly bringing him up (although I doubt that and I assume that Nyttend is solely attempting to weasel out of any accountability. It's not appropriate for this case, but I feel Nyttend has serious accountability problems.  His talk page archives show far too many examples of hatted discussion for an administrator, his archaic method of talk page discussion makes following issues difficult, and he often refuses to see errors in his actions or correct them.)  In any case, let me know if I'm doing anything wrong. Ryan Vesey 15:40, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm bias now
According to an IP - Hi Dave (and to any talk page staplers )

Could you please tell me if this revision is in any way okay, if it is perfectly fine - please explain to me why - if it's not, I'll have it reverted.

This IP who continues to edit war over the issue, violating 3RR whilst they're at it, believes that I am bias towards the subject, because I'm Greek - (the hilarious section) my reply - I have also abstained from editing the article, because I don't believe it's appropriate I edit it, based on those accusations - true or not - (not, nor never has been) I'll avoid it.

Any takers? — MST  ☆  R   (Chat Me!) 01:19, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say the way the quote was used that the other editor is biased. There's nothing even adding context for that quote. Why not compromise by adding the quote to the previous version? Hope that helps ツ Je no va  20  (email) 09:15, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Training the trainers - Newcastle
Hi Dave. I have started a discussion about the location of the February train the trainer course that you've signed up to. You might be interested in commenting - see. Thanks, Bazonka (talk) 21:44, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

What's changed
This really is the crux. Nothing has changed. As I said to Coren yes I will endeavour to be more civil, yes I will endeavour to be more responsive. But I have always been trying to improve. And nothing will convince me to say that I was gratuitously uncivil, when I wasn't. Certainly I have said things I regret, some of them less polite than others. But nothing rising to a level that is remotely sanctionable, and certainly not as a "patten of behaviour"

As to responsiveness, that is obviously harder to quantify. But if you read the talk pages (and some of the case pages) of the ArbCom case you will see some people dropped in to say rather nice things about me. You can also peruse my talkpage history, up to the point I was banned from archiving it. The situation where someone is sanctioned (as I was) for not responding to a complaint at 3 in the morning is untenable.

But be that as it may, I constructed a bug logging system, during the case, which was actually used productively, including by parties to the case. This was because the then drafting Arb, NewYorkBrad, was posing questions in the workshop designed to build consensus. That time should have been spent digging up diffs in a combative mode, rather than working to resolve the underlying issues, which were, in my opinion, more about perception than anything else. I specifically offered in addition a remedy which would have made unresponsiveness effectively blockable - I think I am probably the only defendant of an arbcom case to make such an offer. Why did this collegial strategy backfire? Because the drafting arb changed, and a proposed finding was written which not only included every "bad" proposal by those bringing the case but went far beyond!

So as I say, nothing has changed, except nearly a year of my life has been wasted, and the project has not had the benefit of my efforts. But as a believer and practiser of Kaizen, had I not been sanctioned, things would have changed. It is impossible for me to be a more responsive bot operator when I am not operating bots.

Rich Farmbrough, 14:34, 11 January 2013 (UTC).

PDF external link
Worm or one of his staplers, would it be acceptable for me to add this excellent PDF as an external link of Palace of Murlo until I can use it to expand the article? Ryan Vesey 00:32, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's up to you really, I can't see anyone objecting. Technically it does fall foul of WP:EL point 8, as it requires an external resource to open. Having said that, in the spirit of WP:DEADLINE, I'd say hold off until you can use it properly to expand the article. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 08:43, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Joseph A. Tunzi
Thanks for the compliment. Do you have any suggestions in removing the heading at the top of the page? "A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. It may require cleanup to comply with Wikipedia's content policies, particularly neutral point of view."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_A._Tunzi

Oops...I forgot to sign...Daryl77 (talk) 00:53, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daryl77 (talk • contribs) 13:58, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Daryl, sorry for the delay. I wouldn't worry too much about the conflict of interest tag, they often appear on articles which have been largely written by a single person, especially when that person has few edits outside of the topic. Hopefully as the article is read and updated in the future, it will evolve into something which has multiple editors who've worked on it, and then the tag can be removed. Unfortunately, these things can take time, so I would suggest you simply put it out of your mind. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 11:52, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Miss me?
First of all, congratulations for winning a position in the ArbCom. No, don't ask how I voted (you'll know).

Now, to the main idea. You know the argument last October/November? And someone stripped of my RB feature? I'd like to ask from you personally if this week/month is the right time to regain one. Just a simple yes or no and a light-toned reason (I'm too tense over talking some hard sermon these days). Pits Confer Guests 10:53, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I haven't looked into it, but if you're too tense for an in depth discussion then I think asking for a userright is a poor idea. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 10:55, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The discussion before that, titled "Enough". I had hot flashes due to that and went tense answering the discussion. But now, I'm not as tense in editing (except for schooling, which is out of WP, THAT'S tense). Pits  Confer Guests 13:15, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Please nominate me
Hello, My Name is john, I would like for you to tell me how i can improve and what i should do. Please reply on my user page or talk page martjoh (talk) 13:21, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * FYI. Blocked as a troll, and SOCK per CU. Pedro : Chat  23:26, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Cheers <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 11:49, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

JSTOR
Can anyone enlighten me on the issues on Aaron Swartz and JSTOR? As far as I can see, the copyright of the articles Aaron downloaded belong to the authors not JSTOR. JSTOR is a non profit organization and yet it has stakeholders. I am confused, exactly what law did Aaron breach and how was the 35 years and 1 million dollars conclusion calculated? -- RexRowan Talk  10:01, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Our article on the subject is helpful, but it was breaching the terms of JSTOR's use and it was JSTOR that it was being stolen from. Imagine you deposit your jewellery in a bank vault and the bank get's robbed. It would be the bank that pressed charges on the person. You might press charges on the bank... <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 10:08, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * So the articles have a commercial value and the libraries deposited them profit from them? I read on JSTOR website that the libraries have to pay a fee to get their stuff kept there. Mmmm... Did Aaron wiped out JSTOR's hardware or he just downloaded copies? -- RexRowan Talk  10:13, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * He just took copies for release. Even not-for-profit businesses have to make money to cover their overheads. The theory is that any profit made by a not-for-profit is re-invested into the company. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 10:19, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If Aaron does a better job and release everything for free, he would ruin JSTOR's business. Ok. -- RexRowan Talk  10:23, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Send some love!
My friend Henry is a newbie here and please send him some love and welcome him so he doesn't feel intimidated by the new technology and stuff User:Henry W. Gould. Thank you! -- RexRowan Talk  10:52, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Pint?

 * Excellent choice of image ;) Thank you very much! In truth I haven't communicated with anyone much, I seem to find myself rather busy all the time! Soore or later I'll work out how to balance arbcom with the rest of wikipedia, I'm sure. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 14:05, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If you work it out, let me know; I could use some help balancing real life with the rest of Wikipedia... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  14:09, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * (stalking) If you don't drink your coffee out of a Wikimedia mug, you're probably okay. Oh, wait.... Ritchie333  <sup style="color:#7F007F;">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F;">(cont)   23:27, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Want one of those... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:03, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * My Wikipedia junk wish is to get an etched glass paperweight ball in the shape of the Wikipedia Globe. One day, I might even commission it. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 10:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Pff, the truly dedicated get themselves one of these... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:10, 17 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The "missing pieces" aspect of the official globe design might make the paperweight design tricky.


 * Also, if commissioning it, watch out for that trademark, or else you might have Geoff pursuing you through the courts! :) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 10:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * In my imagination, the missing pieces are clear glass, as are the lines between the jigsaw pieces and the letters, whilst the jigsaw pieces themselves are etched glass. The only problem then is a "flat bottom" to make it useful as a paperweight, so perhaps a stand would be more sensible along - to make it an ornament rather than a paperweight. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 10:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh and as for trademark... if I'm just making one rather than selling them, perhaps they'd overlook it... <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 10:31, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe you can ask Wikipedia to commission it and give you as a service award. Reciprocity is a good word. :D -- RexRowan Talk  10:35, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Lol, a great idea. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 10:38, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * A line of jewellery to go in WMF's merchandising store perhaps? Small ones would make interesting components for earrings or pendants or something. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 10:46, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well nobody seems to give out gold watches on retirement for real companies anymore, so we might as well make do with doing it for makeshift ones like this. Ritchie333  <sup style="color:#7F007F;">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F;">(cont)   10:48, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Editor discount should be 100% ;) -- RexRowan Talk  10:49, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Get this made into your paperweight, Worm. http://www.metropolis2.co.uk/Bish/Atlas-Farnese.jpg --Cheers, RexxS (talk) 23:21, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Thought
Worm, I posted a comment on Penyulap's talk page. I'd like to help and as I've "met" Pen over on Pesky's talk page, maybe Pen will hear what I had to say because I want to approach Penyulap as the friend of a friend (and thus, maybe, I can be viewed as a friend as well). I also made a suggestion for you. I think this editor can be brought back into useful editing, somehow, as the discussions Pen has had with Pesky suggest a fair amount of goodwill is possible. Anyway, I might be wrong, but maybe if you can pop over there and see if you want to try my idea, then we can see if Pen will agree also. I thought you handled the situation with me, JLAN and MathewTownsend (now blocked as a Mattisse sock) quite elegantly, so I think you would be fair about looking at what's going on with Penyulap. Montanabw (talk) 17:29, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, the point of the exercise was that it was a very final chance. I'm hoping that either he should be totally exonerated or can admit at least partial fault. In either of those case there's a decent chance he could be rehabilitated. If on the other hand he can't admit responsibility even when presented with evidence he's at fault, then I cannot see that he can be a part of this community. It doesn't matter though, penyulap is not going to accept my help under any circumstances, so I'll just let it be. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 17:43, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Dear darling sexy Worm ;P ... it's worth hanging in there, I think.  Sometimes it can take a long time to get a pretend-wild horse to come close enough to the nasty suspicious-looking pony treat to actually risk taking it from your hand.  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 22:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've been watching what's happening on Penyulap's page ever since he first appeared on ANI over some trivial matter or other. Quite frankly, I'm appalled by Penyulap's behaviour and more than in awe of yourself and a number of the others who have been attempting to help him repeatedly but are repeatedly being spat at, effectively. After being rebuffed a second time, I'd probably have given up on him as a lost cause and not really here at all and moved on. From what I've read over the last year or so, Penyulap has a singular inability to find fault in what he's done, regardless of whatever medical condition he has. I'd previously tried as well during those ANI's to give him a prod in the right direction but instead those prods were viewed as being offensive and it was pretty evident that his tenure here would not be long and painless. In any case, I thought I'd just pop by to say that you're done a sterling job and that's an opinion that I'm sure is shared by many others. Blackmane (talk) 10:26, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * While Pen does need to remember the adage "when in a hole, stop digging," nonetheless, I think the problem isn't any actual "crime" Pen committed, it's more the angry reactions and the responses after. My view, particularly post-Malleus, is that there are way too many civility blocks being handed down, and often to the wrong people.  If you look at the actual work Pen has done, I'm not sure you will find trolling or destructive behavior, other than the occasional bit of obsessiveness over minor points, where, frankly, it took two to tango.  I think we have a situation where the victim who was being bullied got one over on the bully, who proceeded to then whine and complain about it, and thus the victim was the one who wound up punished.  But that's JMO.   Montanabw (talk) 19:58, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Worm
Hi, I'm an Indian Wikipedian wishing to make a difference and help develop Wikipedia as best as possible... I've been a user for about 3 years but haven't done much... So I was wondering if you would like to take me under your wing and teach me a few tricks of the trade!!! I also wish to become an Administrator in the near future, all with your help... I am espically attracted towards Apple, Economics, British Rock Music, Sitcoms, Indian History and Politics, Sports, etc., ... Hoping to see you become my mentor quite soon... Ajayupai95 (talk) 14:39, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Ajayupai95. I'm afraid I'm just a little busy to take on any new editors for mentorship at the moment, perhaps you could have a look at WP:ADOPT or WP:TEAHOUSE, which are two great projects which should be able to help you out. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 09:59, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Training event for UK Wikimedians
Hi Worm That Turned, you signed up to the WMUK training event but the venue has changed. The response from the community is that a different location would be easier for volunteers to get to. As such the training session will be held in Manchester on the same dates. If you are still able and want to attend could you please confirm as much in the sign up section so we know you'll be there. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 15:06, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yep, done <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 09:59, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

OTRS
Hello Worm,

I received email back from OTRS team regarding the images of Henry W. Gould, they had trouble validating the fact whether I am appointed to release his photos to the commons for projects. My friend Henry is very old and not sure how these licensing processes work, so if you could clarify this with him about his images on his talk page, it would be great. User talk:Henry W. Gould -- RexRowan Talk  10:35, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Can't really help without a little more information. Do you want to forward the OTRS email to me. I'm sure you've got my email address somewhere. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 13:03, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Sent you an email with Henry's contact information :D -- RexRowan Talk  13:50, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I know you're extremely busy but...
There's only one lesson remaining in my adoption course. Once that's done, you only have one adoptee left.— cyberpower <sup style="color:olive;font-family:arnprior">Chat <sub style="margin-left:-4.4ex;color:olive;font-family:arnprior">Online 13:49, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll do my best to get it done for you. I'm very sorry about the delay, but it might be a few more days. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 13:52, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok.— cyberpower <sup style="color:olive;font-family:arnprior">Chat <sub style="margin-left:-4.4ex;color:olive;font-family:arnprior">Online 14:04, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

How do I turn my OR into something that isn't OR but presents adequate information
Currently Botik of Peter the Great reads that the the boat was built in the 1640s. A New York Times article references testing to discover where it was created. It mentions one theory that the boat was a gift in the 1580's to Ivan the Terrible. My source was relatively clear that it was built in the 1640s. "The boat apparently was built in the 1640s in England, or by..." The book was published in 2003 and uses a footnote to a book published in 2000. My OR is that the testing dated the boat to Peter the Great. Would writing "An earlier theory held that the boat was a gift from Queen Elizabeth to Ivan the Terrible in the 1580s" be acceptable? The OR here is presenting the theory as an earlier theory while the New York times article presents it as an acceptable theory. Ryan Vesey 23:50, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Given the New York Times was from 1997... I don't see how that change suggested is OR. The article gave a theory at the time, and in 2003 that's not the theory... putting in that the testing put it to 1640 is OR however. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 13:06, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I updated the article accordingly. Ryan Vesey 14:57, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Here's another tidbit that might be considered OR. Page 34 of this book has Peter the Great asking Timmerman (who hasn't yet made his way into my article, but certainly has to) "Why it [the boat] was made so unlike other vessels?" to which Timmerman responded that "it was constructed to sail against the wind".  That's an interesting fact, and it appeared in other words in my book, so I suppose if it was necessary I could include it in the discovery section of my article.  The problem is, it seems a bit out of place there (perhaps once I add information about Timmerman and maybe a bit more on Brandt or Peter's toy fleet, a "fleet" of a few ships he had built after discovering it, it won't seem out of place).  I was considering adding it instead to the construction and design section.  The sentence I plan on using is "Uncommon in Russian vessels of the time, the boat was constructed with the ability to sail against the wind."  Is that original research or not?  It's clear (to me) from Peter's statement that other Russian vessels of the time could not. Ryan Vesey 23:09, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems reasonable to me, I would even support something more strong than "uncommon". The book specifically states that it was something "new". <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 08:40, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I added it with this. Ryan Vesey 18:27, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Rolling Ball
Hello,

I have created a new page called WP:Rolling Ball. It shall be a friendly place where experienced as well as new editors can freely discuss topics on Wiki. Everyone is invited and welcome to join the Group. You presence shall also be much appreciated.

You may join by adding your name to the list here. We are currently trying to hold all discussions on the Hang Out Zone. We would love to have some feedback from you at the talk page. Should you join, please also watchlist/keep an eye on the Hang Out Zone, so you can be aware of all the discussions that are going on.

Cheers, TheOriginalSoni (talk) 04:32, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

As a matter of opinion...
Do you have a preference of the types available here specifically for use in a montage? Thanks ツ Je no va  20  (email) 16:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * No preference at all. I would have suggested a map of Birmingham as a priorty though, maybe with an inset of the country. Something like I did at File:InvercargillStreetMap.jpg <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 11:06, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I tried using that site for the map in the article, but it is very fiddly. Thanks for the opinion though. I'll think it over ツ Je no va  20  (email) 14:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Dannyboy1209
This sockpuppeteer, whom you idef blocked about 6 months ago, has posted on my talk page from an IP asking for return of his talk page access. Why he has come to me I know not, although I have probably been involved with one of his many socks in the past. My immediate inclination was to say no, but if he is going to edit via IP then perhaps we might think about it. Your input, please? His request, on the face of it, is reasonable, but he does have a very long history of socking, vandalism and block evasion.--<b style="color:red;">Anthony Bradbury</b><sup style="color:black;">"talk" 17:47, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Has he actually talked to Ryan about an adoption program, or is he just assuming Ryan will agree to do it? If so, then it's probably a reasonable request. If not, well, it might not make a big difference either way. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 17:49, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have no idea; I have not spoken to Ryan. --<b style="color:red;">Anthony Bradbury</b><sup style="color:black;">"talk" 18:44, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * He threw away his opportunity to use the adoption program with me a long time ago. He needs a year or two off before he'll reach the maturity required to edit. Ryan Vesey 19:24, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * From what I remember, it was an immaturity problem... Is there any evidence he's grown up? <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 19:47, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, if Saddhiyama's right and this is also Dannyboy1209, I think the answer is a resounding "nope". Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 19:49, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If I'm correct, looking at Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Dannyboy1209 that's a huge range to the point where a range block would never be appropriate, right? Ryan Vesey 20:20, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if my math's right, 110-126 is 16,383 8,191 addresses; too high for such relatively minor disruption. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 20:28, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Having looked further... I think it'll be a no from me. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 09:20, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Am I getting my talk page back? If not, then why not? When may I get it back?

Hey SexiWorm!
Something to keep an eye on ...

User:Mir Almaat 1 S1 ... the one whose primary purpose seemed to be posting to Penyulap's talk page ... well, he's been inactive since September. Until today, that is. I may be being overly cynical, but I suspect the return to activity may not be entirely unconnected with the tiptoeing towards some kind of resolution on Pen's talk. It does, however, conveniently mean that Mir's IP addy isn't stale ;PI think we'll be able to move somewhere with Pen, hopefully; the situation with any lurking ne'er-do-wells who may suddenly want to become involved again will need some careful watching. <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 17:02, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * In the interests of trying to keep the current situation as "clean" as possible, and to avoid any undermining-type stuff, do you think it might be a good idea for a CU to check for the possibility of a WP:GHBH violation? There's some odd smells drifting around this entire situation, and I think a good sniff now (with a fresh IP addy available) might pre-empt a lot of unnecessary bother later.  What do you think?  Is the sudden (and suspicious-looking) return-to-activity, at the same time that the Pen block situation is being seriously looked at, would constitute sufficient evidence for a sniff-around?  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 14:51, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Now, remembering Mir and AGFing, I don't think his primary purpose was Pen at all, he caused problems at Teahouse and elsewhere too! Possibly a language barrier issue, possibly an account designed to cause problems. I would personally say you are being cynical, since Pen is no closer to being unblocked, given that nothing's actually changed - I'd say my offer was firmly rejected. On top of that, the editing that Mir has done since he got back was nothing close to Pen. I say all this with a proviso, that I haven't really looked into the Mir situation with respect to Pen since last summer, and I could well be mis-remembering.
 * In any case, it's not ripe for CU, it would be much more of a fishing exercise. Think of it like DNA testing, which is 99% effective, that means that it's 1% wrong. If you were to check a population of 70m people, you'd get 700k answers... The investigation needs to come before the test, and then the test can confirm the likely outcome of the investigation. Smells, winks and nods are not enough. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 13:14, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Frankly, I wonder if there is any reason for Pen to remain indef blocked if the only requirement is to beg forgiveness. I hate that sort of penalty, anyone with an iota of pride is not going to be humiliated without a really bad taste in their mouth.  I don't do well when being baited by trolls (as you well know) and for that reason, I sympathize with Pen, who didn't pull back before charging like a Mastodon.  Montanabw (talk) 23:21, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If the only requirement was to beg forgiveness, I would be unblocking him now and considering blocking the admin who caused the mess. However, in the past, there has been consensus to block at ANI, he's been accused of harassment, disruption & sockpuppetry. As I said, I've not looked in detail to these accusations, nor do I have memory of the full background of the case - but without the evidence that it's wrong, I've no reason to doubt it.
 * My offer was simple, it looked to me that Pen was suggesting that he was completely blameless in the situation. I wanted to get a full history together, so that we have the evidence. If Pen would just say that he would consider that history and his part in it, I would put in the effort of getting it together. I have no issue with his condition that Bishonen were to look it over and be the final judge, nor that he might want to augment the history with anything that I might have missed. Another option would be Pen himself putting the history together - but he seems unwilling or unable to do that, instead stating that the whole thing should be obvious. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 08:36, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I think Pesky was right about the A-spectrum thing, Pen is kind os unaware of his own process, I'm afraid. Bummer.   Montanabw (talk) 01:41, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Y'know, I think maybe if we (by which, of course, I mean you ;P) put together all the stuff anyways for a good look-see, it might be worth it. I think Pen's mentioned that nobody actually needs his permission to do so.  I know you don't want to put in a lot of effort which might be wasted, and I really understand that one.  I did also notice, as I was looking at things, that another account Pen had trouble with was User:Mlm42, who tooka break from editingfrom  30 July (the date Pen was blocked) to 14 December. Maybe I'm just going through an excessively cynical phase, I dunno. Maybe Pen is quietly putting something together.  Maybe not.  I thin Pen is well aware of the fact that he totally blew a fuse; I also think that he may feel that there was some justification / mitigating circumstances for it; maybe he feels nobody's looked at that / those.  I dunno ... off to have a coffee now before I ramble any more!  <span style="color:#003300; font-family: Apple Chancery, Zapf Chancery, cursive;">Pesky  (<span style="color:#003300; font-family:Papyrus, Noteworthy;">talk ) 09:14, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It would be a lot of work, and I'd say that if the guy is not prepared to even consider the possibility that he might be more than 0% to blame, then it would be a complete waste of time - that attitude will lead to the same result in the end, whether in this case or the next one. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:38, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * No Pesky, I will not spend that much time working on a full case history without even a hint from Pen that he would read it, let alone discuss it in good faith. He's decided how things have to work, someone has to ask the blocking admin and the blocking admin must answer to his satisfaction or unblock him. My offer as it was stands and will continue to stand - I will put together a full case history, to the best of my ability, if Pen will confirm that he will read and discuss it. I'm not asking for his permission, I'm asking for his co-operation. I am happy to have anyone else involved, judging it and so on. I'd really like to see Pen putting a bit of effort in himself to point to the areas that he'd want to discuss further - including mitigating factors. The ball is firmly in Pen's court and I think he'd rather remain blocked than have me involved in his return to the community. I won't comment on Mlm42 without further investigation. <span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;'>Worm TT( talk ) 10:04, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Maybe a better question might be to ask him what he would do in the future that would improve the project. If he had some positive ideas, it would be easier to consider an unblock on a 'moving forward' basis. Unfortunately I'm not sure you'll get a positive response out of him at the moment - he's not very 'cute' (good at tailoring his response to what his audience might like to hear) and I don't know how he'd take the question. I do think he didn't intend to create the account whose creation I blocked him for, but I don't think he's ever understood that his actions did cause that to happen, and it never helped that Rich F. kept describing his socks as alternative accounts. I'm not sure Pen actually understands the difference. Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:22, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The presence of multiple kindly mature ladies on Worm's talk page suggests to me that if these kindly mature ladies would just talk to each other, all these problems would be resolved without the nonsense caused by us fractious males. Pesky, I can assume that you understand what Elen just said, right? Can you talk to her about this and work on this? Or is it more kind of a male "no surrender" type thing? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 03:00, 26 January 2013 (UTC)