User talk:Wtchistorian

June 2022
Hello, I'm Binksternet. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to Charles Fox (composer) seemed less than neutral and has been removed. If you think this was a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Binksternet (talk) 11:57, 8 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello Binksternet. Thank you for writing, providing the reason for the removal, and ensuring that the article has a neutral point of view and reflects a wide diversity of opinions. I agree that my removing the controversy behind the writing of the song in the manner that I did is a mistake. Lieberman has every right to express her opinion and it should be heard.
 * However, as the article currently stands, Charles Fox's Wikipedia page can hardly be called a "neutral point of view." Just because Lieberman claims to have written "Killing Me Softly with His Song" doesn't mean that she actually did. It's less of a question of Fox denying her involvement himself, than the fact that she does not have a songwriting credit for the song. At all. This is supported by not only all the official credits for the song, but also in its entry in the Library of Congress copyright catalog (an image of which or, perhaps, a link I can happily try and provide). Nor has she sued for such a change and been awarded a credit, a la David Bowie and Queen getting credit for "Ice, Ice Baby" (based off of "Under Pressure).
 * I agree that her insistence that she wrote the song should be noted. That certainly checks off the "wide diversity of opinions" box. But to embrace her opinion as fact in the introductory paragraph of Fox's page is hardly in keeping with the spirit of neutrality that Wikipedia has championed for so long. Her opinion has not changed the song credit, and the way this sentence is written makes it sound like that she got the credit. Wtchistorian (talk) 18:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Nobody questions the official credits, so there's no need to dig for scanned documents.
 * The official credits stand. Lieberman is not suing to change them.
 * But Lieberman's account is judged very believable by the media, especially when sources from the early 1970s are observed to say that Lieberman, Fox and Gimbel were working together on songs. Billboard published a piece in 1974 titled "The Lori Lieberman Team" meaning Gimbel, Fox and Lieberman working together to write songs. The post-mid-1990s denials by Gimbel and Fox of Lieberman's involvement have been portrayed by the media as spiteful and ungenerous. The media have placed their imprint on the matter, and have viewed Fox and Gimbel negatively. Lieberman has gained media recognition of her involvement in the songwriting. It's this unofficial, popular recognition that radically changes how the story is told. Binksternet (talk) 04:21, 10 June 2022 (UTC)