User talk:Xenani

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Caste articles
Hi, I am finding myself reverting stuff you have added to caste articles in the last few days. Are you aware, for example, that the "states" series of The People of India is not considered to be a reliable source? And that WP:INDICSCRIPT applies to many articles? You also seem to be changing infoboxes but not always providing a source for the subdivisions etc that you add, and there seems to be a surprising lack of understanding of WP:LEAD and the viability of snippet views. Or is it me that is misunderstanding your edits? - Sitush (talk) 18:13, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Could you provide me information on why the book "People of India" is not a reliable source? The source is published by Anthropological Survey of India, so what makes the source not reliable? The same question regards the source "Census of India" also not reliable (as you stated in Konar article), since it is published by the Indian government so I would have regarded the source as reliable. Also regarding the self published book by K. K. Pillay which I used as citation in the Paraiyar article, according to WP:SELFPUBLISH as quoted
 * Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications.
 * K.K. Pillay headed the department of Indian history at the University of Madras and have also published other books that were published by universities, for instance the book "South India and Ceylon". Regarding snippet view, I know the sources might appear as such, however I have most sources in full version but cite them as snippet version for better overview. If my method of citing is wrong, how should the sources preferably be cited then? Also coming to Indic script, I will avoid them for next time, Thanks for the link. Regards Xenani (talk) 21:27, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Edit: Never mind regarding the sources "People of India" and "Census of India". Just read User:Sitush/CasteSources. Will try to be more careful for next time.Xenani (talk) 21:58, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

I am also noticing some very close paraphrasing, eg: of Kathleen Gough at the Vellalar article and of someone else at the Konar (caste) article. You can't do that and I am having to rephrase things. Further, you appear sometimes to be using snippet views from Google books and that, too, is frowned upon - you have no great context when using such things. - Sitush (talk) 20:07, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Regarding the close paraphrasing on the Vellalar article with the source of Kathleen Gough, the edit is not mine. I simply put the text into the history section as it seemed to fit better there rather in the lead. You might need to be more specific on which edits you mean on the Konar article. Xenani (talk) 21:27, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Sorry about that. I've fix the copyvio now. - Sitush (talk) 19:55, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Infoboxes
Hi, your poor cite formatting is frustrating enough but your repeated condensing of infoboxes is really getting on my nerves, sorry. An example is at Mukkuvar. Is there any reason why we can't have one parameter per line, as most articles do? And is there any reason why every article you edit even needs an infobox? They are not compulsory and when the article is long-established without one you should perhaps seek consensus first because they can be problematic when it comes to caste stuff. - Sitush (talk) 20:51, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Sitush. Thank you for grasping my attention regarding caste infobox. I see I need more improvement on that part. Will be more observant regarding it. Regarding the sources, I try improve my citing formats. However is there any need to remove the whole sourced content based on poor cite formatting? You could probably just insert the citation needed tag or try yourself to fix the cite formatting as WP:PRESERVE suggest instead of removing it right away. Also could you respond to Talk:Paravar .Peace Xenani (talk) 21:05, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Xenani (talk) 21:05, 12 October 2018 (UTC)


 * You would have to give me an example. I wouldn't usually remove a cite just because it is poorly formatted. You have, however, used some dodgy sources. I'm really not interested in WP:PRESERVE when it comes to caste articles - too much crap, too little time and too few knowledgeable contributors. Sometimes I let it run, sometimes I don't. Just look at what I have been doing at Mukkuvar, and that is without even checking the sources.


 * By the way, are you aware that snippet views are not usually acceptable? And that searching on GBooks for specific phrases is a poor thing to do and likely to result in incorrect information? - Sitush (talk) 21:35, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Example would be your resent edit on the Kammalar caste fully removing the sourced content on etymology section. Whatever article on Wikipedia, the policies stands including caste related articles. So please follow WP:Preserve as it is a policy and improves the articles much more than removing the content.
 * I have mentioned earlier I will be more careful on citing it, however as also mentioned I do not source based on the snippet views, I used snippet views to give an overview for the readers, anyway I will change my citing style. Xenani (talk) 22:26, 12 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think I am more perhaps tired than I feel. I am wondering whether it might be better not to force the Sri Lanka stuff into India-related Tamil articles but rather to create separate articles for them and cross-link via the See also method if and when appropriate. The Sri Lankan Tamil stuff can be highly politicised and, generally speaking, the sources aren't anything like as good as those covering South India. Whatever the solution may be, the Vishwakarma situation being discussed at present is one of several recent examples of big problems emerging where previously there were none and they all seem to be related to wanting to push the Tamil connection to the exclusion of everything else. - Sitush (talk) 03:34, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Sitush. I have perceived your opinion. Further I am awaiting respond on Paravar talk page, and also the removing of content on Kammalar etymology. Xenani (talk) 13:17, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Wider discussion
Hi, I've mentioned you in this thread at WT:INB. I apologise for not assuming good faith about the sourcing issue but I really am struggling now. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. - Sitush (talk) 05:19, 23 October 2018 (UTC) I will look into it. Xenani (talk) 19:47, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Ambattan
Hi. I moved your Ambattar article to Ambattan because that's the term used by the sources you've included in the article. Perhaps it should be merged with Nassuvan because they seem to be talking about the same social group? --regentspark (comment) 21:22, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi regentspark. The "r" ending is a honorific suffix, whereas the "n" ending is considered rude, thus I used "Ambattar" for the article (as they are known as in colloquial speech) instead of "Ambattan". But I don't mind your change. Regarding merging the Nassuvan article, they could be merged, however the article should still be named "Ambattan" as it is the most preferred name in most sources and the term "Nassuvan" mostly occurs in sources by Kumar S. Singh (which are apparently non WP:RS). Xenani (talk) 21:54, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Got it. Will attempt a merge sometime in the near future! --regentspark (comment) 14:20, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Ukkirasinghan
Hello, Xenani,

Thanks for creating Ukkirasinghan! I edit here too, under the username Rosguill and it's nice to meet you :-)

I wanted to let you know that I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:-

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and prepend it with. And, don't forget to sign your reply with. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

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signed,Rosguill talk 21:34, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi Rosguill, I will try to fix the issue, thank you. Xenani (talk) 12:40, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Absent of wiki pages for this caste
-Devendra kudathan -Kudumbar -Mooppan -Kudumbar -Kaladi -Pannadi -Vathiriyar Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 16:25, 25 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi Mamallarnarashimavarman. I will create pages for them whenever I get time. Thank you, Xenani (talk) 17:56, 26 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk • contribs) 01:54, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

States series
Hi, the "states" series of The People of India is not considered reliable, per past discussions at WP:RSN. The "national" series, which was published by Oxford University Press, is ok. You may need to revisit this edit. - Sitush (talk) 17:19, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reminder. Xenani (talk) 17:35, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Neutrality is required
Hi, further to my comments related directly to the article, there is a matter that is specific to your editing approach rather than to any one article, so I bring it here. You have made many edits on south Indian topics; I do hope your edits on south Indian language forms do not relate to any personal point of view that you may hold. May I remind you that strict neutrality is required by Wikipedia policy. This means that you must never be tempted to add anything about such language forms because, for example, you know a language or personally like or prefer that language. It is absolutely fine per policy to make use of knowledge to help locate relevant information and sources, but it is never all right to advocate any point of view or seek to influence the tone or coverage of articles to emphasise that point of view. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:45, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

I try to only contribute my edits based on objectivity and not personality. But anyway, thanks for the info. Xenani (talk) 21:07, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Pannadi caste
A page should be created for this caste. https://books.google.com.my/books?id=10IwAQAAIAAJ&dq=pannadi+pallar&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=pannadi+pallar

Pannadi and perur temple https://www.covaipost.com/tcpnewsinshorts/coimbatore-perur-temple-car-festival/

Naatru Nadavu festival https://www.covaipost.com/tcpnewsinshorts/naatru-nadavu-seed-transplantation-festival-celebrated-in-perur-temple

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=P3LiAAAAMAAJ&dq=pannadi&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=pannadi

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=10IwAQAAIAAJ&q=pannadi&dq=pannadi&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPnqLPwr_hAhU48XMBHXPrCJUQ6AEILzAC

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=KNGWOuYUXIkC&q=pannadi&dq=pannadi&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjokpb0wr_hAhXTjOYKHaKeCSc4ChDoAQhEMAc

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=jHQMAQAAMAAJ&q=pannadi&dq=pannadi&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPnqLPwr_hAhU48XMBHXPrCJUQ6AEIRzAH Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 08:52, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Kudumbar caste
Page needs to be created for this caste. https://books.google.com.my/books?id=RRxuAAAAMAAJ&dq=kudumbar&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=Kudumbar+

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=MPkrAAAAIAAJ&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEIRDAG

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=EgggcAE_x9UC&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEIPzAF

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=Cdnxn_3GeeMC&q=kudumbar&dq=kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqgPSThcDhAhU46XMBHQzdDDsQ6AEIKzAB

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=jeF-r72rVF4C&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEIOjAE

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=dXl8KbmMVtMC&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEINjAD

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=2SkbAAAAIAAJ&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEIMDAC

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=Cdnxn_3GeeMC&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEIKzAB Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 08:53, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Kaladi caste
Page needs to be created. https://books.google.com.my/books?id=w2AwAQAAIAAJ&q=kaladi+pallar&dq=kaladi+pallar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcrc7-hcDhAhUjheYKHfnMDIQQ6AEIKTAB

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=2SkbAAAAIAAJ&q=kaladi+pallar&dq=kaladi+pallar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcrc7-hcDhAhUjheYKHfnMDIQQ6AEILjAC https://books.google.com.my/books?id=W0IwAQAAIAAJ&q=kaladi+pallar&dq=kaladi+pallar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcrc7-hcDhAhUjheYKHfnMDIQQ6AEIPzAF Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 08:56, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Devendra kulathan caste
Page needs to be created

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=L3YMAQAAMAAJ&q=devendra+kulathan&dq=devendra+kulathan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNwffKh8DhAhVr_XMBHWSLAu44ChDoAQgpMAE

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=COcwoYRCYhcC&pg=PA170&dq=devendra+kulathan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiN_fjMhsDhAhUyXHwKHZ8bCfYQ6AEIJTAA#v=onepage&q=devendra%20kulathan&f=false

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbm=bks&q=inauthor:%22Anthropological+Survey+of+India%22&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwils5WfiMDhAhU1_XMBHVWnAEQQ9AgIVzAJ&biw=375&bih=559&dpr=2

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=Js0XAAAAMAAJ&q=devendra+kulathan&dq=devendra+kulathan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwils5WfiMDhAhU1_XMBHVWnAEQQ6AEIRTAG Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 08:57, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Muthuraja
Muthuraja never called valaiyar Muthuraja and valaiyar is one of the subcaste of Mutharaiyar.But not direct relation between valaiyar Muthuraja.My doubt is Muthuraja is royal people or watchman.you cannot perform again caste warJkalaiarasan86 (talk) 17:28, 20 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Mutharaiyar maybe the caste that of Mudhukudi vendhan Cant get his proper name in tamil but i sure know that his name's english translation is "King of Old(First) people".He didn't give his daughter to three crowned kings i.e.,Cheras,Cholas and Pandyas. Dakshina Maanan (talk) 09:47, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

A page you started (Sri Lankan Paraiyar) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Sri Lankan Paraiyar.

User:Doomsdayer520 while reveiwing this page as a part of our page curation process had the following comments:

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---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 18:12, 5 July 2019 (UTC)


 * . I do agree that both Sri Lankan Paraiyar and Paraiyar have some similar information. I would like to add the content of Sri Lankan Paraiyars to the Paraiyar article, however I have been told various of times by a specific user that we should not add information of the Sri Lankan Tamil castes into the castes of Tamil Nadu with the same name (he thinks its confusing). Xenani (talk) 15:32, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your help
Actually just went through the history of some related pages - thanks for removing a lot of unsourced content. I'm going to try and add more sourced information by reading through a few relevant articles about the Sri Lankan castes, as some of the articles are really short, and more information would be good on modern influence and history. Thanks again. AlbusWulfricDumbledore (talk) 13:44, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Navanthurai


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Regarding Merge
Hi, I assume you do have knowledge about the Castes of Tamil people (Including Srilanka). DKV article is being duplicated and contains unreliable sources as per WP:RS for social groups. Also, many users feel it is a modern neologism and influenced by politicking. I'd like to hear your thoughts on regarding the merge in the discussion. Thanks in advance. Kautilyapundit (talk) 08:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

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