User talk:Xue hanyu

Welcome
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! We appreciate encyclopedic contributions, but some of your recent contributions seem to be advertising or for promotional purposes. Wikipedia does not use advertising in articles. For more information on this, see If you still have questions, there is a new contributor's help page, or you can write   below this message along with a question and someone will be along to answer it shortly. You may also find the following pages useful for a general introduction to Wikipedia. I hope you enjoy editing Wikipedia! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Feel free to write a note on the bottom of my talk page if you want to get in touch with me. Again, welcome! cab 16:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
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No advertising, please
Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. Please refrain from posting links that appear to be advertising. If you are in any doubt about the please refer to relevantWikipolicies. Unless you justify your additions on the relevant talkpages, I will delete the links. --Niohe 16:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for taking an interest Niohe. Can you point me towards the relevant talkpages, where I'll be v happy to justify the inclusion of chinadialogue links.

FYI, chinadialogue.net is an independent, non-profit organisation based in London and Beijing. It is owned by the Open Trust, a London based educational charity. It was launched on July 3, 2006. It is an initiative supported by a range of educational charities as well as the UK-China Sustainable Development Dialogue led by Defra (Britain's Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs).

See here for further details: http://www.chinadialogue.net/static/about


 * Quick reply. Please read up on relevant policies on What_Wikipedia_is_not. In sum: this is not the venue for advertising your admittedly interesting initative. Please respect that. Every page on Wikipedia has a talk page for discussions.--Niohe 16:27, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I am selectively reverting the insertions. Not all of them, but yes, most. If your site has articles which are relevant to a given article topic and you think would be a useful resource to expand the article, please insert a link directly to the article in question. But a link to the front page of a general environmental site doesn't belong on articles like Xishuangbanna, Daya Bay, Overseas Chinese, etc. Thanks. cab 16:31, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Duibuqi, I'm a newbie: full list of links created
Thanks for the hints on what wikipedia is. I believe chinadialogue links are relevant on the following pages, justification to follow:

Media of the PRC

For obvious reasons - it is part of the subject matter, contains works by Chinese journalists about China.

'''China China proper'''

Chinadialogue is no different from the other links on this page.

'''Eco-cities Ecopolis Sustainable city Ecovillage '''

Generic areas attracting an audience who will find chinadialogue useful and interesting.

'''UNESCO biosphere reserves in China Dongtan Three Gorges dam 2005 Jilin chemical plant explosion Kyoto Protocol Global warming China water crisis Water resources of China'''

Chinadialogue contains articles on all of the above.

'''Guangdong pumping power station Lushan National Geological Park'''

Chinese environmentalists: '''Dai Qing Tan Kai'''

Both these Chinese environmentalists are known to chinadialogue and its contributors. One is in prison.

Protected areas of China: '''Protected areas of PRC Sichuan giant panda sanctuaries

Yancheng Yading Xishuangbanna '''

Areas of high environmental importance; policies and issues about these areas are inevitably going to be discussed, if they haven't been already on chinadialogue

'''One country two systems Programme 863 Social issues in the PRC Overseas Chinese Cambridge Uni Hong Kong and China Affairs Society Daya Bay Cross-Straits relationships

'''

These areas are more tenuous for Chinadialogue

Californiaalibaba, can you supply me with a list of where you have reverted to previous format? I would like the chance to challenge your actions, if I disagree with them. Does each page have a discussion area,or something that functions as such? It would be handy to argue the toss, if necessary, in each area, rather than elsewhere


 * Sure. See . To a first approximation, any article where you don't see (Top) after the article name, means that someone else has edited the article since you last edited it. Probably meaning Niohe or myself removing your link. Anyway, like I said, for articles like Dongtan, put a link to a specific section of your website addressing the topic. If no such section exists, create one first. The point of external links is to aid people looking for further information on the specific topic. I wouldn't have any objection to a link to your site on Environment of China for example, (but I think one or the other of us may have already reverted that one along with all the others, en masse).


 * To discuss an article, put "Talk:" in front of the article name in the URL. Or look in the list of tabs at the top (where you see Edit, History, etc.). cab 16:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks v much for that. I'll return to the matter later, probably tomorrow pm (BST). Wikipedia rules seem reasonable. I look forward to discussing it with you then. Mingtian jian

Continued promotion of Chinadialogue
Hi Xue Hanyu, I notice you have already had discussions with other editors about the links to chinadialogue that you have been adding. Since your responses above you have resumed your previous behavior in adding links to Chinadialogue pages that are not directly related to the article subject. Your current actions are commonly considered linkspamming and are not appreciated. If you continue to add links in this manner you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Persistent spammers may have their websites blacklisted from Wikipedia. Please reconsider your editing style. It would be great if you would add relevent content to articles instead of simply adding links to external sites. --Siobhan Hansa 22:50, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The nature of links
Siobhanhansa

your removal of the chinadialogue link from Media in the PRC is in error: the site has a Beijing office, and is therefore PRC media, and is also aimed in part at a PRC audience. Please reconsider your removal of the link.

As to adding links: I hope it's adding value to entries, that is my intention. Tips and hints are welcome.

I must correct you on your false assertion that I have resumed my previous behaviour. I've learnt a lesson and will not add links where there is no specific justification, rather than a general one. Please investigate the links, and the first set of links that I created, and you will see that there are a tranch of entries which I have not returned and replaced a link on; also my links are now, mostly, to specific pages relating narrowly to the entry. If this kind of linking is not approved of by wikipedia then I've missed something, but please put me right if I have.


 * Xue - Do you work or volunteer for Chinadialogue?  I ask because your additions to wikipedia (that is, the way your additions are almost entirely centered on adding external links to chinadialoogue and building up chinadialogue's presence on wikipedia) appear to be those of an employee or supporter of Chinadialogue, rather than those of someone whose first priority is to build a good encyclopedia.


 * On what sort of linking is approved of - Wikipedia's mission is to build a good encyclopedia - that does not mean building up a collection of links to good sites. We want content on our site.  Adding content gleaned from the Chinadialogue articles to Wikipedia articles would be great (assuming it is good content and avoiding copyright infringement of course).  But pointing people away from wikipedia for content that should be in an encyclopedia is not a methodology that builds Wikipedia into a good encyclopedia.  We do have guidelines on appropriate external links, as cab pointed you to in his/her welcome message above.  There are no hard and fast rules, but be aware that the Wikimedia Foundations' most recent Boardmember has recenty issued a call to arms to editors to be aware of other sites using Wikipedia to promote their own purposes.  Our commitment to neutral point of view means we need to be vigilent about the excessive inclusion of one point of view or source in a way that gives more weight to it than is given by experts in the field.


 * Your inclusion of chinadialogue as an external link in the Media in the PRC article is mistaken. The external links section is for encyclopedic sites that talk about media in the PRC.  Not for sites that are media in the PRC.  When I say you resumed your previous editing habits I am refering to your addition to articles such as Giant Panda and Dai Qing.  The articles you linked to were not about the subject of the articles, they were about tangential subjects that you no doubt think are important, but are still not appropriate.


 * Finally, there are several other reasons why your links might not be appropriate on an article. Articles should not link to every related resource on the net.  Editors should choose only sites that add particluar and unique value for readers beyoned an encyclopedic article, and that are reliable and well respected in general.  When there is more than one site that provides the same sort of information, editors should choose one, not list all of them.  The chinadialogue site is young and its reputation is not well founded yet.  So it is a less appropriate link in general than many others might be.  If chinadialogue becomes a well respected source in the environmental movement with a reputation for providing good information it might well become an appropriate link on a lot more articles.  But the reputation needs to come before the link from Wikipedia, not after or because of it.   Also your links still point to the article summary page rather than the full article.  This is not best practice for our readers and adds to the impression that the external links are added as spam for the purposes of promoting the site, not as an attempt to provide the best possible experience for Wikipedia readers. --Siobhan Hansa 14:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Siobhanhansa

thanks for taking an interest, I appreciate it very much as it teaches me so much.

I can readily see how my actions must appear like a mad spammer, very inappropriate for Wikipedia. I am at a loss to know the correct thing to do, so while I'm debating it with myself and you and learning about wikipedia I'm doing some more wiki things. I've set up a page for an English film of the 1960s which didn't have a page before, and that's taught me a lot about wikipedia. Ironically, there are no links on it!

Links are a bit of a dilemma. To link or not to link? Ideally, lots of links would be good but I can see how this would be off-putting for users. I came across a wikipedia page about Hong Kong which an excellent and long list of links, but they were categorised efficiently and this made all the difference.

I'm also, I now find, compromised. I am a volunteer for the chinadialogue site, because it happens to be in two of my specialist fields, and that closeness makes my actions subjective and compromises their absolute validity. I have to step back and ask myself if lots of, some, or any cd links on wikipedia is an appropriate way forward.

Links are quick and easy to put up, but how does one control quality, handle effective user-interface and add value to an entry with links? It's fraught with lots of potential problems. Too many links, too general links, links as commercial traffic drivers (not a cd problem, it's a registered charity and runs as not-for-profit).

I shall return to the problem later, but those are my musings at the moment.

Xuehanyu


 * Hi Xuehanyu, as you volunteer for Chinadialogue, you might take a look at the Wikipedia conflict of interest and editing with a conflict of interest guidelines. One way to not get into the middle of accusations of improper promotion is to post to the talk page of an article you think would benefit from the link - point out that you edit wikipedia, but you also volunteer for Chinadialogue, explain a bit about the site, and ask other editors to look at the link and if they agree it is beneficial to the article to add it. --Siobhan Hansa 19:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

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hi
Are you interested in getting Baiji featured? frummer 10:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes. How can I help? Xue hanyu 18:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)xue_hanyu

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