User talk:Yomangani/Archive 11

Charteris again

 * "Ah! dost thou not envy the brave Colonel Chartres,
 * Condemn'd for thy crime, at threescore and ten?
 * To hang him, all England would lend him their garters,
 * Yet he lives, and is ready to ravish again.
 * Then throttle thyself with an ell of strong tape,
 * For thou has not a groat to atone for a rape."

Those lines are by Jonathan Swift, "An Excellent New Ballad Or, the True English Dean to be Hanged for a Rape" April-June 1730. The subject was one "Sawbridge," a newly sent-over cathedral dean. Swift wrote to Oxford (Robert Harley), "The plea he intended was his being drunk when he forced the woman; but he bought her off...I am confident you will hear of his being a Bishop." In fact, Sawbridge was acquitted of raping Susanna Runkard because he submitted evidence showing that he was in another county at the time. The reason I mention it, though, is that it tells us how "Charteris" was pronounced. It rhymes with "garters." Geogre 15:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Now if we just know how garters was pronounced we are sorted. Looks like Charteris is a St. John/Higginbottom type name or some idiosyncratic spelling that has been accepted as correct (or maybe Swift couldn't think of a rhyme for "garters"...barters, farters, carters, nah, it's easy and I'm sure he wouldn't have let a goodun like farters escape ;) ) Yomangani talk 17:39, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Swift believed in precise spelling, actually, so the fixed form of "Charteris" is most likely Charteris's own doing. Now we resume Swift's swiping at Charteris, from the same year (nearly...more 1731) and Lines on the Death of Dr. Swift ll. 189-90:
 * "Now Chartres at Sir Robert's levee,
 * Tells with a sneer the tidings heavy"...

It goes on to have Walpole's comments on Swift's death (basically, "damn! Why couldn't it have been Pultney or St. John"), but here is Swift's own note to the verse: "Chartres is a most infamous, vile scoundrel, grown from a foot-boy, or worse, to a prodigious fortune both in England and Scotland: he had a way of insinuating himself into all Ministers under every change, either as pimp, flatterer, or informer. He was tried at seventy for a rape, and came off by sacrificing a great part of his fortune (he is since dead, but this poem still preserves the scene and time it was writ in)." Well, I think they're Swift's notes. They sound like his tone and style. The doubt is only that the poem was not printed until 1739, by Pope, from Swift's manuscript, and Pope cut out some hundred lines and notes to prevent more offense being given to the current Queen (Caroline of Ansbach, the woman who pissed off all the Tories by seeming to promise one thing as a princess and then doing entirely otherwise as queen). (See, e.g. Tom Thumb and Chronohotonthologos (grrr...I wrote the article and can't spell the name).) Nope: it's surely "charters," but possibly "charter/uh/s." Geogre 22:27, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:Friendlyfloatee.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Friendlyfloatee.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:


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If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that any fair use images which are replaceable by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Abu badali (talk) 12:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
And thanks. I will do that from now on, I think I just copied someone else the very first time I added an image (months ago) and never looked back. IvoShandor 12:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Date
Ok, sure. Sorry for the trouble. I might even start using that myself now. It just looked a little ummmm.... shall we say... digital to me. :) Regards, Anonymous Dissident  Talk 13:07, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

An article which you started, or significantly expanded, Napoleon Crossing the Alps, was selected for DYK!
Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 (talk) 17:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Flew over to Sotland quickly with a camera? Nice picture Image:Dalmenyhouse lighter.jpg. I wish I could do clever things like that. Giano 07:22, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Sale, Greater Manchester FAC
Hi. I'm sorry to bother you, but I just wondered if you would be willing to have a look through the Sale, Greater Manchester article. User:Tony1 has requested a copy-edit by a good copy-editor. Any other ways to improve the article would also be welcome. Thank you very much, if you can. Epbr123 16:57, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your review. Could you at sometime have look at Sheerness and Kent, please. I'm sorry to have to ask, but your the only user I've met who can copy-edit to User:Tony1's liking. Epbr123 18:24, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Red Barn Murder
Dear Yomangani, a good well researched article, I and my colleagues were very impressed; and justifiably picked for the main page article. As a heritage educator I occasionally give lectures on the Red Barn and picked up a couple of useful things to add. The reverse of that is I could also drown the article in extra facts. e.g. The actions of the executioner on the Scaffold following his "mishearing" the words of the priest. It is a precise well informed piece. If you are ever in Bury St Edmunds do visit --Edmund Patrick 19:13, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The transcript of the trial: rarer than hen's teeth is correct, in the collection I work for is the one with the asides and annotations which is bound in Corder's skin. As I said a well crafted article. --Edmund Patrick 08:18, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Warsaw
You pack a lot into an edit. Well done. Are you able to make it back for the rest? Is the prose passable in general? Marskell 07:43, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Back again
I transcribed Epitaph on Don Francisco on Wikisource. I haven't any idea how to cross link it into the Charteris article (or even the Arbuthnot article), but you can go to WikiSource and read Arbuthnot's epitaph on Charteris. Geogre 19:32, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You can do this, I guess, but there's supposed to be an easy way. Geogre 19:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed there is, and I've done it. Is the spelling correct in Without Turst of public Money, Bribe? (You can never tell) Yomangani talk 22:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No. I had two typos.  There was that, and there was inssatiable.  They're both fixed now.  Geogre 12:31, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Lion season - one in all in
Marskell wants to get Lion to FA and reckons (prob'ly rightly) its a pretty tall order for one editor - I'm thinking ambitiously but it could be a cracker - say 50-60kb and 120 odd refs or so. I have laid it out as per Jaguar FA but it is pretty bare. One of us could do Lion-taming, one Lion-baiting, one conservation etc. Could be fun. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:50, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Thousands of fishapods!
Wow, cuddly fishapods! Tiktaaliks, dadada! Yomangani my daddy? [Bishapod scrabbles happily with flippers at Yomangani. ]  bish a pod   splash!  15:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC).
 * [Resignedly. ] Down, Stupid !     bishzilla      R O A RR!!    15:40, 10 July 2007 (UTC).
 * I didn't realise that Bishapod was going to channel Bishzilla's inner kawaii. I suppose I should expect to see happy elephant floating on cloud time over the ruins of Tokyo as as a result. Yomangani talk 15:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, as 'Zilla pointed out to Dave, little poddie-tan (or Stupid, as she calls him) doesn't have a very developed personality yet. No telling what he'll grow into, really. Bishonen | talk 19:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC).

update DYK
Can you make sure all the hooks make sense and then update the DYK? I'm trying to get them done as soon after 6 hours as possible because there seems to be a bit of a backlog on the suggestions page. Rigadoun (talk) 17:06, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I did the credits. Rigadoun (talk) 20:06, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Shaw and Crompton FAC
Hello Yomangani,

I don't normally do this (well... never have to be honest!), but you recently reviewed Sale, Greater Manchester and gave it some really constructive and indepth feedback. I haven't contributed much to that article, but have on Shaw and Crompton which is about a simillar kind of town in the same county of England.

It's attracted little feedback on its FA nomination; you may find it an interesting read, and was wondering if you could just have a skim read if nothing else. Hope so! Kindest regards, Jza84 00:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Triptych, May-June 1973
Here is me again asking for help. I hope to nominate Triptych, May-June 1973 within the next month...but the article is quite short at 14 kB of text, and I have exhausted all sources. Anyway, as the author of a number of FA's on individual paintings, I would appreciate some advice from you on how to improve or build the page. Thanks. Ceoil 21:07, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no hurry with this, so whenever you get a chance is fine. Outriggr has agreed to copyedit, and I'm sure he will do a great job. Your right, there was no 'critical reception'; it went straight into the market, and the earliest commentry I have dates from Bacon's 1985 Tate retrospective. I'm more worried about structure for the moment, and am uncertain if the general discussion on the "Black Triptych" is a little off topic; maybe it should be a seperate article. Anyway, thanks for coming back to me. Ceoil 10:20, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You not might like the paintings, but Bragg's south bank interview with Bacon is endlessly amusing, and if you can track down a copy, it is just great. It ends with Bacon playing footise with a very worried Bragg in the Colony. Thanks for the overview, anyhow. Ceoil 01:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Award-da-da plush toys
['Bishapod scrabbles eagerly with flippers at Yomangani. ] Hi Yoma-ma-ma ! Got piccies of stuffed teddypods separate for upload? Poddie want! Poddie give awarda-da-das, make friendly ed-da-da-di-tors all happy! Piccies piccies!  bish a pod   splash!  19:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC).


 * Oh, gee... don't encourage, little Yomangani! Down, Pest!     bishzilla      R O A RR!!    19:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC).

caption
what else could that beagle possibly be doing? it's walking towards a person, the camerman, carrying back game in the exact same manner as retrieving breeds. I've hunted with retrievers enough to see the difference between a dog simply dragging about some game it caught and a dog intent on bringing it back to hunters. That is what it is doing, and it's pretty instinctual not miraculous. VanTucky (talk) 00:37, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I was being facetious: "a Beagle retrieving rabbit" could also be read as "a rabbit which retrieves Beagles" which would be impressive. Anyway, Beagles often seem inordinately proud of themselves when they make a kill and will carry the rabbit around showing it to everybody. They can be trained to retrieve but it isn't an instinctual behaviour in the breed, so labelling up one of the few pictures with "retrieving" is misleading. Yomangani talk 01:13, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Something you may find fun...
Marskell had an idea to take Lion to FAC - I got ambitious and thought a groovy 60kb article with loadsa refs would be cool, and it is starting to take shape now. Anyway, I noted that Lion taming was extremely meagre, and though Lion-baiting was significantly larger still lacked for lots of info I'd a thought. Seeing how you like historical things, I'm sure there's a DYK for the initial 5x expansion of Lion taming so will ye get yer chair and yer whip...........................cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:02, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd imagine it is difficult to find reliable sources to fully cover the history but I'll have a look. Yomangani talk 01:09, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Animals in 500 most popular articles in May 2007
1st is cat, then dog, then human then....lion (!) then spider, then animal, then shark then tiger...

If lion got up it would be the only FA, though Cat is a former FA and spider has been a candidate (and looks in the best shape for another tilt sometime).


 * most viewed articles on Wikipedia - I came across it at the Shakespeare FAC. enjoy -very amusing list. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:01, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Update - if you look at June's figures - [] then German Pinscher is the top animal article (?!), followed by Owl, Ammonite, Pangolin and baboon....weird....cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:12, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Nudge
NUDGE. Spring Heeled Jack is headed for remove. Do you have time to work on it? Joelito (talk) 17:20, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Che Guevara
Hello Yomangani. The Che Guevara article is disintegrating into a shambles, becoming more biased and actually false by the day. Please resume what interest you have in the article for the sake of the serious editors there who spent months to years perfecting it. My latest edit in this debacle, citing probably the most reliable source on Guevara, was simply reverted and replaced by an unreliable source carrying a false claim. I have no strong POV in this, but I am well aware of the details of the events in question, worked a lot on the article in the past and am very disappointed to see it decline.-- Z leitzen (talk)  19:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

feel free to move this to your userspace...

 * Thanks very much. Yomangani talk 01:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Another challenge you ain't done yet...(unless you 'ave and it ain't on yer userpage...)
How 'bout a Featured topic ?

Ones I've thought most readily doable would be Monotremes, which has Short-beaked Echidna and Platypus as FAs already, but need work on Eastern Long-beaked Echidna, Sir David's Long-beaked Echidna and Western Long-beaked Echidna with sprucing up of the family and genus articles as well as Monotreme and the prehistoric Steropodontidae. Length would determine whether to shoot for FA or GA....cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

The other obvious one would be all the Baleen Whales....cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I've thought about doing that before. The non-Oz echidnas are a bit thin on info though. Yomangani talk 01:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Ditto Pygmy Right Whale...I s'pose they can be GA then. Just about every cluster of FAs which could go to FT I think of has a few of these sort of poorly known onescheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:47, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * ...........or a lion FT! - lion as FA, all lion subarticles - cultural/heraldry/subsp./lionbaiting and liontaming all GA (or FA). Maybe good as a beacon for other pop cult articles too....(just got home - had a margerita while out - pardon the spelling..) cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

John Wylde
Hi Yomangani, I see you have left a few invisible questions on this article I recently made, all with good reason. I realised that I had left out crucial information, and I have taken steps to fix that up. Check the end of the Deputy judge advocate of New South Wales section to see what I mean. Tell me if you think anything else needs explaining. Thanks for taking the time to question these things. Yours, -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 09:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've 'answered' your recent new question. Thanks for the ce. -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 11:47, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have tried now to make it as clear as I can, based the actual lack of explicitness on this small piece of information in my sources. I am under the impression, infact it is infered, that Wylde worked at one Supreme Court before it was, for want of a better word, 'superseded' by a new one Forbes established, and so did not work at the new one and ceased to occupy the 'outdated' court. I have made some changes to the article to try and reflect this. Maybe you can endeavor to say what I have said there better. Cheers, -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 12:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for allowing it for DYK, even though it was technically 6 days. I dont know why, but it seems to take me ages these days to write articles. You on the other hand write them in one or two edits. Do you just like to do things in one go or do you do it in word first? Cheers, -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 13:27, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Occasionally if an article turns out to be longer than I expected I might save it somewhere half-finished and I occasionally come across snippets that would be useful in other articles which I want to write in which case I jot them down, but most of the time I write the articles straight into the edit box. (Doesn't do much for my edit count but I don't suffer from editcountitis so that doesn't matter). It does have its drawbacks though: I lost the entire text of Mediterranean moray when we suffered a power cut, and I haven't yet built up the enthusiasm to redo it. Yomangani talk 13:39, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

DYK
No problem, we'll keep them for a later update. --Camptown 12:30, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How about: ...that the United States Capitol dome (pictured) is built of 8,909,200 pounds of cast iron?

Soviet invasion of Poland
How did you determine the date of the FA promotion? I mean the July, 17 instead of 19, as the date of your actual edit of the page indicates. Maybe just a glitch? Anyway, no big problem, just wanted to know what is the procedure and how to determine, in future, whether the vote has been closed (I voted the July 18...). Regards, --Beaumont (@)  15:17, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the prompt response! --Beaumont (@)  15:38, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

DYK next update
Hi Yomangani, I just noticed your comment at WT:DYK about needing help at T:DYK/N. I didn't even realize that non-admins could help update that page! I'll definitely start pitching in there a couple times a week, as DYK is one of my favorite parts of the Wiki. A question: when doing the next update is it okay to make minor tweaks to the wording? I'll give it a shot soon, and if I make any gaffes, don't hesitate to let me know. Cheers! --JayHenry 20:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

An Experiment on a Bird in the Air Pump
Hi! I see you have reverted some of my edits in this article, amidst much vandalism. Did you mean to revert the vandalism and not my edits, or have I done something wrong? Cheers! DBaba 00:34, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh it doesn't normally get edited by anyone but me and vandals, and I didn't notice it was on the front page, but your edits have changed the meaning of one sentence and added a redundant link. Still, it isn't the worst that going to happen to it over the next 24 hours so feel free to put them back, I'll trawl through it in a day or so and sort out the wheat from the chaff.  Yomangani talk 00:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. I'll restore the edits while dumping the redundant link...  It's a bit painful to see a mis-conjugated verb in the opening of a front page article, so hopefully you'll find my participation at least modestly helpful. DBaba 00:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Painful? I hope not. Sloppy melding of two sentences on my part I'm afraid, as a result of addressing concerns at FAC. Re-reading my initial reply, I see it came out as rather more brusque than I intended. I didn't mean to imply that your edits were on a par with the vandals. I'll be off to try and get my foot out of my mouth now. Yomangani talk 01:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a wonderful entry, nice work getting it to the front page where I could find it.DBaba 03:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

DYK Next Update
Is it true?: I saw on the DYK discussion page what you said that anyone can actually update the DYK:Next, even if not an admin? As long as it is not his/her own nomination/suggestion (or yes?)? Can you clarify? How does it work? Specifics? Dragonbite 00:23, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Just tried one a few minutes ago... Thanks. :} Dragonbite 01:13, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Yet another FT idea (well Marskell's actually but...)
OK in freudian free-association here:

FT - Wild Cats of North America - Jaguar (FA), Cougar (FA), Bobcat (FA)....and Canadian Lynx....I tidied it up and organized it like Bobcat...cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

(Not as easy as I thought anyway - I forgot Ocelot and Margay....)

Bird Lists
Hi Yomangani: Just in case you don't have the WP:BIRD page on your watchlist, I thought I'd let you know that there's been some discussion today about the lists you've generated... (See here) Cheers, MeegsC | Talk 15:40, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

DYK
Thanks for the words. It was the comment, but not just that particular one but a pattern of comments that have prompted me to no longer cater my volunteer work to those who have no input for improvement. You guys as DYK can still use my articles via the bot, I am sure they will get picked up, I will just no longer take any role in suggesting hooks or photographs. Thanks again. Happy editing. IvoShandor 13:06, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

DYK update
Another non-admin has filled up the next update, thanks to your prodding, I suppose. Can you update the template? It's overdue by a few hours. Rigadoun (talk) 15:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Prawn farm massacre
First, thanks for the DYK on this article. I would like to turn your attention to the the acts of User:Iwazaki here. He takes off a citation to a book. Though taking off this citation does not affect the article I am worried that without this citation this article could be put for a AFD or might be added with different tags (like NPOV/OR ect). I would like for you to take a look. Thanks Watchdogb 16:42, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I will follow your advice. Thanks again Watchdogb 18:17, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

"The Shark Guy"
It's that "shark guy". Another record: two in a week. You must stop this! Sandy Georgia (Talk) 03:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

What do you make of...
...this in relation to this? I just made an article (not yet finished) Manfred on the Jungfrau, by John Martin. But the web says that another work of the identical name by Brown was made. Is there a bracket convention in Wiki when two artworks share a name? I thought I'd ask you seeing that you seem to do a good job with art related articles. Cheers, -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 10:50, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks. I guess it is neither here nor there in the WP world, but it kind of is in my world; I cant get to a library right at this moment, and Martin's version has more information on the internet. Oh well, I'll try to find some book sources for the article on Martin's work, and maybe for Brown's version too. Cheers, -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 11:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well - I've made Browns version. It is entitled Manfred on the Jungfrau (painting by Brown). Is that what it should be called, or is there a better name for it? I have finished both of them. Cheers, -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 08:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok. I'll do that. Cheers, -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 21:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 11:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Main page
No, I did not nominate, I though pages where added on itself, but after some recent research I realised that there was a VERY long 'queue' so I gave up and never tried to nominate. I was very surprised when I saw that it was to be on main page the next day, I check that page and reslised that there had been very few edits since it became fetured so it was still in good shape!!! Yes very good that it was finally shown on the main page!!! --Stefan talk 05:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

DYK update required
Hi -- You're listed as one of the admins interested in DYK, and I noticed you were editing recently. The current set has been up for approaching 12 hours now and there's a new set ready to go at the template update page. I'm happy to do all the template tagging if you've not got time. Thanks in advance for your assistance! Espresso Addict 11:24, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Cheers! Espresso Addict 11:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Red links
I have to say I agree with a lot of your thoughts at your red link essay. I think Featured list candidates need at least 50% blue links unlike FACs, due to their nature. However even there some people want every link to be blue before supporting! CheekyMonkey 16:37, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It's really so I don't have to type that out every time I see somebody saying the redlinks in a FAC should be filled or removed. Yomangani talk 16:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Its good. I like it, and the point you are making is definitely one that needs to be made. I noticed you didnt mention that redlinks can often give great ideas for articles for oneself to write, but thats up to you. Maybe you should move it into the Wikipedia space; I think it deserves to be there. -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 15:39, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

HoP
I think I agree with you; I've been seeing it for sometime too. It is too broad to get the coverage an FA needs. I think I will follow your advice and break it up into sub-articles. I think I will make History of poison in Europe or History of poisoning in Europe. Thanks for taking the time to point this out; it has been niggling at the back of my mind for ages, but your message sort of pushed me to decide to do what you have suggested. Cheers -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 21:43, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Discussion of import?
Fancy adding something here? See first item. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:01, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Flavian Games
I looked at Flavian Games. Very interesting article. (There was even a description of the games at the year 80 just waiting to be linked.) Can I vote support now that I have touched the article, or will I be subjected to damnatio ad bestias? – Outriggr § 10:20, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's fine as long as you acknowledge you are tainted. I won't be watching: I take my lunch during the executions like everyone of breeding should do. Is there some particular reason for removing the p.'s and pp.'s? I find useful to differentiate between pages and (in this case) epigram numbers, but if it is some MoS requirement I suppose I can live without them. Yomangani talk 11:45, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it's a MOS requirement, but I thought it was cleaner. I've reverted them. (What are the numbers at the end of most of the References?) – Outriggr  § 20:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The numbers on Martial are the epigram numbers. They are a bit of a mess as there are three different numbering systems and it is common practice to list all three in that format. Yomangani talk 12:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I meant the "304" in "Kyle, Donald G. (1998). Spectacles of Death in Ancient Rome. London: Routledge, 304." for example. Number of pages? – Outriggr § 00:35, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, they are the number of pages. Yomangani talk 11:24, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

?
ce? --Joopercoopers 12:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It put his talk page in the category of B-rated architecture articles. I know nothing about his buttresses, but I'm sure his talk page is better than B-class. Yomangani talk 12:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh I see! The irony - Geogre assessed. cue merciless piss taking......--Joopercoopers 12:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Eggshell
Thanks for your comments. They were very encouraging. We're hoping to go again at FAC in the next few days.

The way I got involved with this article was that I opposed it at its last FAC about a month ago, felt guilty, and realised that I could probably meet my own objections, if I rolled my sleeves up. The links are just about last on the list of things to do: one goes down tunnels in this article and loses a sense of the overall warren. They are pains in the arse, though, especially things like Henry IV, I, 2, 3, plus the fact that Shakespeare unhelpfully named his plays after a bunch of Wikipedia articles.

I'm a history man, really, which is probably why the tragedy stuff comes over cacklike. It's hellish, though, trying to sum up 38 plays in four paragraphs, and I've probably relied too much on my Bradley. Fortinbras does march on after the Hamlet bloodbath to herald the new order, though. Anyway, I will try a rewrite at that point, "lest more mischance on plots and errors happen".qp10qp 16:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

DYK update required!
FYI. It has been over 12 hours since the last DYK update! Please make a new one ASAP! Chris 00:09, 4 August 2007 (UTC)