User talk:Yosemiter/Archive 2

Edit war
While I agree with your exasperation, as per this edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:NetWitz&oldid=794108529) are you not also technically involved in an edit war? 194.28.127.53 (talk) 02:15, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I am not sure who you are, so I would appreciate if you signed in. But yes, by technicality I am. On the other side though I have cited my reasons behind my actions (which they have not) from edit summaries, asking for discussion, and others interventions (as well as actually making the edits per WP:NAVBOX protocols). I am merely trying to get the editor to actually respond and understand what they are doing which they apparently don't care to. Yosemiter (talk) 04:56, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Diacritics
Thank you for letting me know about the process. Red Director (talk) 22:46, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem, while it isn't a huge concern for me in particular, others have stronger views. I should probably of further clarified, but I believe the ice hockey diacritic guideline is only in reference to the players' names usage when on team or league based articles (seasons, list, awards, ect.). On other articles or non-NA leagues/teams, they should be used. Yosemiter (talk) 22:53, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Discussion at Articles for deletion/2018 Indoor Football League season
You are invited to join the discussion at Articles for deletion/2018 Indoor Football League season. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 06:17, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Sorry man
Regarding Vegas Golden Knights - I just realized that it's definitely the other way around - they definitely stole it from us. Thanks for reverting and please accept my apologies for the mistake.  ~Oshwah~  (talk) (contribs)   03:53, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem, to be fair, the Golden Knights took a lot of its original content from the Potential National Hockey League expansion page when it was just a candidate. I have since trimmed most of that out and that other site had a lot of the pre-trimmed expansion efforts content. Yosemiter (talk) 03:58, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Greenville Swamp Rabbits
Thank you for your interest in preserving information about the Swamp Rabbits in a coherent manner. As a member of the organization I have been instructed to add detail and monumental moments from the organization's past, especially the re-branding of the franchise from the Road Warriors to the Swamp Rabbits. I was still in the process of completing my edits, citing sources from multiple different articles and historical mentions about records and important information.

Regarding your issues with the it not being a "sports journal," I'm having an issue understanding what you mean. The statements made in the article regard the team and the organization's accomplishments as a whole, both by the players and the team in general. In addition, when undoing my edits there is an extreme lack of information from certain parts of the team history and favoritism to others. Some examples are: stating that Dean Stork winning his 100th game was a milestone, but not mentioning Bretton Cameron broke the franchise record for games played last year. Or including information from the playoffs in 2011 in detail, yet only noting the 2017 playoffs in one short sentence. Those are important moments and team records that need to be stated and it shows favoritism to the early years of the franchise only.

If there are sentences that need to be removed, or even formatting changes that need to be made, I am more than happy to discuss them with you, but we find this information to be factual and necessary when discussing the organization's past and future.Toastedb14 (talk) 20:27, 25 August 2017 (UTC)Toastedb14


 * Thank you for discussing this with me. First thing: PLEASE read WP:COI. As you are connected with the organization, you should be very careful with how you proceed. As to my comment that it is not a sports journal, it was in reference to the unnecessary and biased flourishing words as well as unsupported attributions. We are an encyclopedia, not a collection of milestones. There were also issues with WP:PROSELINE and MOS:SECTIONCAPS. In the mass changes, I may have missed some such as the Bretton Cameron stat. Not all seasons are noteworthy for any organization, otherwise teams like Toronto Maple Leafs would be so long it would be unmanageable. As for the 2017 playoffs, from an outsiders perspective (which is what the encyclopedia is written for) there was nothing to note except for a first round exit. If there is any favoritism to the earlier years (which was only a few years ago), then it mostly appears that the team had more success then. Of things that absolutely do not need to be included: anything to do with previous Greenville teams outside of a single mention and link that they existed and anything further in detail on the Chiefs (there are other pages for the histories of all of those). I will be happy to work with and make any clean up edits to things that you add. Yosemiter (talk) 20:55, 25 August 2017 (UTC)


 * This information will also go into more detail on the team website so I will condense it for the use of Wikipedia. As far as documentation is concerned, let me take the weekend to put together a more concise version of what I was adding and attempt to right the ship from that standpoint. I will redact information that seems to be "verbal fluff" and stick more to the facts in quick blurbs as well as noting certain organizational milestones like current records and top accomplishments in certain seasons. The elimination of the "timeline" is fully agreed and I will shorten that piece and really take a look into the COI. Thanks for the advice, as this is the first time I have edited on WikiToastedb14 (talk) 21:05, 25 August 2017 (UTC)Toastedb14


 * I can work on a season-by-season records table as well so that it looks like most of the other ECHL teams and have it done in the next week. There is definitely some experience needed for that. Also you don't need to ping me (the reply template) on this page as it is my talk page so I get notified anyways. Yosemiter (talk) 21:10, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Tucson Roadrunners fans
You seem to be a chap to ask, as a hockey fan that seems to understand the technical side of Wikipedia - the Roadrunners fan category (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedian_Tucson_AHL_team_fans) was created before the team's name was revealed. I've tried to edit it read "Tucson Roadrunners" instead of "Tucson AHL", and although my edit appears in the edit list, it still shows as "AHL" in my user page categories. I'm guessing there's a simple fix that is beyond my basic knowledge? Darkson (Another fine mess!) 12:19, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Please retract your accusation at Articles for deletion/Elite Indoor Football
The inclusionists are not sock puppets they are 100% legit users. Yuleguru (talk) 03:23, 11 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Sure they are, and they have each made a single edit voting keep. Nice try, but WP:NOTVOTE in discussion, must be by verifiable WP:CONSENSUS Yosemiter (talk) 03:25, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Fort Wayne Safari
Found some sources from newspaper archives. From newspapers.com, Fort Wayne might get indoor football team From nl.newsbank.com, "FORT WAYNE BOOKS INDOOR FOOTBALL SAFARI THE FRANCHISE IS SCHEDULED TO BEGIN PLAY IN 2002 AT MEMORIAL COLISEUM", "SAFARI MAY FIND LEAGUE TOUGH SELL", "INDOOR FOOTBALL COMING TO CITY", "EX-FURY GM TO HEAD FOOTBALL LEAGUE COFFEY TO BECOME COMMISSIONER OF INDOOR LEAGUE THAT WILL INCLUDE SAFARI", "IPFL's loss may ultimately become Safari's gain". I can't read the newsbank articles because you have to pay for them. You can go to the search bar and type in "Fort Wayne Safari" (with quotes included) to look at the beginnings of the articles. Thanks WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 02:22, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * You can revert if you like (I did not fully delete it), but those all seem rather WP:ROUTINE to me. Granted, most indoor and arena team are only routinely covered with little non-local coverage. But are we really losing anything notable if the page does not exist? Yosemiter (talk) 02:59, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say so, myself. We're talking a team that never took the field in an ephemeral indoor league.  There's almost certainly nothing that satisfies GEOSCOPE, nor any notable information not already found in the league article: that this team was announced as a future expansion team, but the league folded before it could take the field.   Ravenswing   04:49, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

SMILE!! 2 OCT 2017
 Hello Yosemiter, Me-123567-Me has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing! Me-123567-Me (talk) 18:44, 2 October 2017 (UTC) Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

But it is 100% not a city
The parameter could say "location" or "township" and at least be in the ballpark. But Paradise cannot stay as a city since it is not a city. Perhaps it should be blank until the RFC is done, because it is incorrect no matter what happens in the RFC. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:42, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * In regards to VGK, we have talked about locations and cities plenty in hockey as well as its own talk page. Leaving it blank is worse as Paradise is not incorrect but a Metro area is less of a city (it is usually multiple cities) than a township/community/suburb or whatever. I don't actually care, I am just keeping the most recent consensus, if that changes than I go along with it. Yosemiter (talk) 22:48, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Luc Beausoleil

 * I was wondering if you knew why there is a discrepancy in his career stats. It appears to me that his final year of pro hockey in the WPHL has been added to the CHL totals in the Internet Hockey Database as well as the sources used that discuss his jersey retirement.  I understand that some of the WPHL franchises were absorbed by the CHL, but it is confusing why the totals would be added together.


 * Also, I don't do barnstars but wanted to complement you on your tremendous efforts to broker peace and sanity during some rather contentious discussions. Hopefully I have not made things worse with some of my frustration, I don't have your patience or diligence.18abruce (talk) 20:49, 15 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Depends on the stats site, his Elite Prospects profile has them separate. I believe the WPHL was merged into the CHL (per some sources), but that was a bit before my time. I am not surprised if there is some stat site confusion in general. In my recent search for the top ten career scorers in the NWHL, Elite Prospects had the stats for the former National Women's Hockey League (1999–2007) merged with the National Women's Hockey League (2015–). Stat sites are only as reliable as those that update them. I personally would consider his CHL and WPHL stats separate, but that is just an opinion. And thanks for the complement, and I don't think your frustrations were as bad others on the two sides of the disagreement. Hopefully this will all settle down soon. Yosemiter (talk) 21:26, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Colorado Eagles, ECHL to AHL
I'm confused with the Colorado Eagles AHL entry. So the Colorado Eagles (organization) will move from the ECHL to the AHL as the same franchise? So the organization will not field an expansion franchise in the AHL and instead the existing CHL/ECHL franchise will serve as the recent expansion franchise for the AHL, rather than creating a new franchise? If this is the case than what happened to the 31st AHL franchise, or was there never a 31st franchise to begin with?71.168.142.170 (talk) 05:14, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It will need some sorting out still, but the 31st is a new franchise license. The ECHL has mentioned Colorado is looking to sell and relocate their ECHL franchise license. But as an organization, they do seem to be keeping the history of the original CHL Eagles. It will likely go the way of the Hampton Roads Admirals becoming the Norfolk Admirals (AHL). Best place to bring it up would be at the hockey project talk page. Yosemiter (talk) 12:27, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Well that's the answer, there will be a new Eagles franchise, you should start on Colorado Eagles (AHL). This is just a brief conversation. How come ECHL teams are not allowed to be promoted to the AHL as the same franchise? How come AHL teams are not allowed to be demoted to the ECHL as the same franchise?71.168.142.170 (talk) 14:49, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, legally speaking, a franchise is strictly a license to play in a league, so it only transfers when leagues merge or similar. Hockey organizations, such as the Eagles, purchase or obtain franchise licenses in order to play in leagues, but still retain a "team history" based on the foundations of the organization. For wikipedia however, typically we create new pages for each new organization or team, not franchise. There is no strict rule for this though, so we have separate pages for the Admirals but single pages for teams like the Fort Wayne Komets, St. John's IceCaps, Maine Mariners, etc. And by demoted, are your referring to the Manchester Monarchs (ECHL) and Norfolk Admirals (ECHL)? If so, those are both different franchises and organizations (to an extent). I will make a query at the project page on the Eagles though. Yosemiter (talk) 14:58, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah this is the problem, a franchise lisense defines a franchise. So suppose a McDonalds Flint, MI location terminates a franchise license and gets a new franchise license that is better. Will it be considered the same restaurant? Nope cause of the franchise agreement, even though everything is duplicate. The definition of a franchise license when it comes to sports should have been that it gives a franchise permission to participate/operate in an organizational structure and not a creation of a franchise. I created a sports franchise, but I don't have a league to play in, in other words I created a franchise, but can't operate it. I sign a franchise license to get permission to operate my franchise in the league. Whoever made the definition of a sports franchise to be almost similar to a franchise of a company is an idiot.71.168.142.170 (talk) 15:31, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Commander in Chief Trophy
Thanks for your edit. I think it made the venue presentation much better. One thing though. Are the list of venues as the bottom supposed to have all those letters in front of them (after the carrat) visible? If not, my skills are not good enough to fix it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 3665047379b (talk • contribs) 02:13, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

I think I figured it out. I’m guessing now they’re supposed to be there and there’s nothing to fix. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 3665047379b (talk • contribs) 02:27, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Your edit summaries and WP:CIVIL
I am quite concerned regarding the nature of your edit summaries...although you are often correct in your statements of Wikipedia policies and guidelines, many of your summaries have you making personal attacks and other accusations, which clearly violate WP:CIVIL. Consider this an unofficial warning to cool down; if said uncivil edit summaries continue, I will contact the admins' noticeboard about this. Thank you. Tom Danson (talk) 17:26, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Umm...what? I didn't call your edit pointless, I called succession boxes with no before or after pointless, as in they literally point nowhere. I think you are being a bit too sensitive here. Yosemiter (talk) 17:29, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It's not over just one edit. That just brought me to checking out your edit summary, and you have a history of making personal attacks and other accusations as well as generally assuming bad faith.  I'm just asking you once more to cool down and keep a civil type...remember, the admins are not as forgiving as I am. Tom Danson (talk) 17:32, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * That's news to me, I am literally being thanked a few posts above this for trying to moderate two sides of an argument. I'm not angry or even frustrated, this just seems like an odd accusation. If you don't mind, please link my other "attacks". (I do have one previous loss of good faith above, and that was from their severe editing and removing of history as "uncited" despite being easily verifiable. That accusation that I called a lazy edit was from frustration and was several months ago. So that is the one I know about. I also made a snide remark that could violate UNCIVIL on the VGK page with a random IP add, I was thanked 4 times for that revert, so it didn't appear to offend anyone.) If you feel like re-adding succession boxes for teams that only played at one location, go ahead I guess. I just don't see the reason and it would just be more footer clutter and WP:OVERLINKing. Yosemiter (talk) 17:40, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Basketball Player Aaron Williams
Is it possible for you to create a Player Page for Aaron Williams who is currently of the St.John edge Basketball team for the National Basketball League of Canada Wikiski22 (talk) 11:00, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * After looking into it, the player fails WP:NHOOPS and I am not seeing good sources for WP:GNG. Even his being #1 draft pick in a minor league got about one sentence of coverage from the Canadian media. Far WP:TOOSOON from the looks of it. Although the most sources I found were local coverage of his story about graduating from Chicago State at the same time as his mother. That kind of news usually falls into the WP:ROUTINE "in other news..." type stories. Yosemiter (talk) 14:55, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Question about your editing habits
Why have your redirected a lot of sports pages to their 2016 stats? Seems not needed, but you might have a good reason for it. EMachine03 (talk) 15:46, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It was brought up in in this AfD. Sources and prose for single season teams are inherently going to be identical. You will notice, I did not simply redirect, I merged all info only found on the season page to the team. Personally, I feel this gives a better and more complete understanding of these one-off teams by only needing to read one page. There is a very good argument for deletion on grounds on GNG for most very low level team season pages, especially in regards to travel teams where they got no more coverage during their season than WP:ROUTINE game reports from other teams. I decided to be Bold about it since almost no one seems to care about this level of play on wikipedia. Do you disagree with the merges? Yosemiter (talk) 15:53, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Page Mat Fraser
Hi, Could you explain me why my modifications got deleted? In my mind, singers for example have details of songs performance (ranks, volume of sales, etc) on their Wikipedia page. So I thought that providing the details of an athlete for a performance was relevant too. Thanks for your guidance. Karinasc (talk) 16:54, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Per WP:NOTSTATS, we don not list indiscriminate amounts of stats. He has performance listed on a year-to-year basis much like we would for any athlete. We are not a sports almanac, just an encyclopedia. If someone does want to see his event-to-event placings, they would and should use the CrossFit Games leaderboard, which is linked on his page. For other examples, look at how other athletes stats are listed (Tom Brady, Sidney Crosby, LaBron James, etc.) and you will not see every game performance listed there, the equivalent of each event performance, just season-to-season. The events he won in 2017 are also listed in 2017 CrossFit Games. n regards to singers, it would be like tracking the each song performance on a week-to-week chart. Yosemiter (talk) 17:08, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * "Just an encyclopedia?" Jimbo's goal is for Wikipedia to be the sum of all human knowledge, and to this regard (say it with me) Wikipedia is not paper.  So, I'm with Karinasc here. Tom Danson (talk) 17:19, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I am not sure why you are jumping in here, but the user added a list of unexplained and overly-specific stats to bio that already has a summary, including an overall stats table summary. (I am not sure if you actually looked the article in question, or just watching my talk page.) Just to explain what each event is by their odd names takes most of the page on 2017 CF Games. And in counter, I say WP:NOTEVERYTHING. I have no idea why you are offended by that. Also if it was the "sum of all human knowledge", then we wouldn't have What Wikipedia is not as everything there could be human knowledge, even if it is non-notable. I think you are mistaking "sum" with "summary" (straight from NOTEVERYTHING). Yosemiter (talk) 17:38, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation! Karinasc (talk) 17:20, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

2018 Arena Football season
With your interest in junior hockey and Arena football, would you like to be the one to create the "2018 Arena Football season" page? You seem to care a lot about the topic and have a desire to see it presented the right way; obviously interest in Arena is waning in recent years and this looks like a possible make-or-break year for the AFL proper, although the semipro "minor league" versions seem to have obtained their own sort of weird momentum where almost everyone associated with the teams and leagues seems to lose a small fortune but there also always seems to be a new group to try it all over again in the same or new markets. 2600:1004:B14D:BAA7:4976:F5A9:CD1A:C8EC (talk) 02:47, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I would have thought 2018 Arena Football League season would have already been created by now. I will try to get to it in the next day or two. I am just trying to keep the details from becoming too excessive in the main page, hence my revert in the main body. There is already detail on the 2018 season style in Arena Football League. As for the dab page revert, that is simply because dab pages are only for clarifying a search or link, not for describing what Arena Football is. Yosemiter (talk) 02:53, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Mobile edits
Are you frustrated with Canned edit summaries? I find it rather annoying for mobile edits. Flibirigit (talk) 16:18, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
 * A bit as they can be misused, such as by Special:Contributions/216.104.118.88 and Special:Contributions/72.139.195.19, which is likely the same editor. The canned summaries in this case might as well be blank edit summaries since the editor is not really doing what the summary says (like this one). I get more annoyed by premature editing, like this one that listed every playoff scenario for the team when they could have just waited 12 hours when it was settled. (Also using ??? instead of TBD, but that might just be me. I feel TBD shows that something is in progress and is a well-used acronym. ??? looks we just don't know or have no idea.) Yosemiter (talk) 20:59, 4 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Feel free to document those concerns on talk pages of those editors. It does help, incase a temp block is ever needed. Flibirigit (talk) 21:18, 4 March 2018 (UTC)


 * I have several times (the 216 IP has already been blocked once), but they are not responsive. In regards to the ??? issues I have addressed them in several edit summaries. I have messaged the editor in question before a few time and they did not care to respond. (They also use - instead of – or — on everything which is against MOS:DASH, as well as randomly adding tons of white space to certain articles.) So I kinda stopped trying to collaborate with that editor, who makes good contributions but in a less consistent manner than I would prefer. I just try to fix them as I can. Yosemiter (talk) 21:37, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Alamodome
Just saw a revert you made and it could very well be original research. But I thought I would point out it actually seats 36,000 for ice hockey. It is a modular arena whose configuration changes depending on event. -DJSasso (talk) 16:14, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, but it still does not seem to be ideal for anything other than special events. I just didn't see any sources citing it as a location candidate for any expansion or relocation (and that the user who added it does have a history of OR on many articles). Yosemiter (talk) 16:51, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yup which is why I mentioned it could very well be OR. -DJSasso (talk) 18:31, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Ohio Bootleggers.
Can you please walk me through how to update the logo from Ohio Cardinals to " Ohio Bootleggers". Thank you!Syracusestorm (talk) 21:22, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi
I am very sorry for what I was doing. I am very new to Wikipedia and don’t know all the rights yet. I’ll try my best to fix my issues and be a better Wikipedian. Thank you, Typerr Typerr (talk) 19:02, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Don't worry too much about it, I was reverted as well with claims that some of the logos were public domain. (That has not been my personal experience with logos, which 99% of the time seem to be copyrighted.) Usually, I just look at what is accepted on past articles (such as the 2017 season pages) and go with that format. I am far more concerned with your occasional use of non-neutral point of view edits and original research contributions. Yosemiter (talk) 19:22, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Hearst Lumberjacks logo
Can you do me a favor Yosemiter? Do you know how to upload logos? If you do, the can you add the logo for the Hearst Lumberjacks. I don’t know how. Typerr (talk) 19:50, 7 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I am not the greatest image editor, but you can go to File Upload Wizard. Upload the saved image from your computer, not a url, under a new File name (such as Hearst Lumberjacks logo.png). Fill in all parameters such as the source of where it was acquired. Make sure to mark it as non-free use with the Purpose as "to serve as the primary means of visual identification at the top of the article dedicated to the entity in question." or something similar. Once uploaded, it can then be used on the page. Hope this helps, but I am not an expert in this area. Also, User:Sabbatino has done good work in the past on uploading hockey logos upon request. Yosemiter (talk) 20:10, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

My computer is dead. Do you know anyone who is a good logo uploader Typerr (talk) 20:28, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Help
Yosemiter, can you help me edit the new page I created called GNML? You can get info from the website called gnml.org Typerr (talk) 17:40, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

And the Wikipedia page link is on my user page Typerr (talk) 17:44, 8 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I have been watching. First you need to establish its notability, which means it needs to be covered in multiple widely distributed, independent, reliable news sources, not just the GNML website. In my experience, youth/midget leagues in any sport do not generate more than local news and routine coverage. (This can be said for any sport, high school leagues would be the equivalent in the US, but get near-zero coverage outside of their localities.) Start with adding independent and reliable sources, then I will look into cleaning it. Otherwise, I will likely nominate it for deletion for not meeting the General Notability Guidelines. Good luck. Yosemiter (talk) 17:46, 8 April 2018 (UTC)


 * A brief Google News search does not appear to be greatly promising despite the near 800 hits. The first 10 pages just local routine game coverage (which is typically disbarred as significant coverage per WP:ROUTINE), but there may be something about the league itself buried in there. Yosemiter (talk) 18:01, 8 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I would also suggest moving it to Draft:Great North Midget League while you work on it due to the very unfinished nature of the article (that is what WP:DRAFTSPACE is for). The folks there that work with Draft submissions have more generalised expertise than I do. Yosemiter (talk) 21:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Help with barnstar
Can you help Yosemiter? I saw the work of Frontsfan2005 and he has done alot of good work on the 2018 OHL season page. I thought he deserved a barnstar, but I don’t know how to send it to him. So since you have the barnstar I told him that you were going to send it to him. Please look at this user’s work and lease send him the barnstar. Typerr (talk) 21:11, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Carolina Thunderbirds
Thanks for the help on this topic. Trying to research and get the most accurate info and really appreciate your help.

On the 1988 AAHL championship, I've seen some place say Carolina beat the Virginia lancers for the championship and other places claim there was no playoffs and Virginia was rewarded the championship. As a local fan of the team, I think the team only has the 4 championship (1983, 1985,1986 & 1989) banners in there arena, but have not been able to find a for sure answer on what happened after that seasons regular season. looking forward to doing more research on this project hopefully working with you. Thanks again! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.74.111.115 (talk) 16:02, 4 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I am mostly just cleaning your work, making sure it stays neutral. I also could not find any indication about the end of the AAHL, in archived papers or otherwise. Since I have no sources, my best guess is no champion was awarded and the league likely just ceased as the owners began the ECHL. Otherwise, all I could find was the random inserts on WP itself, which is not reliable, and that the Tortorella-led Lancers dominated the rest of the AAHL in the regular season. Yosemiter (talk) 16:13, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, i'm good at researching and stats and charts and stuff like that, but i'll admit my grammar and wording are my weakness. Yeah good info from the AAHL seems to be very minimal. I appreciate you cleaning up my mistakes and making the page flow correctly. 108.74.111.115 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.74.111.115 (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

I've changed the info on the AAHL playoffs part of the team history back to them winning the playoff championship, after going to their games this weekend. They do have a banner hanging in the arena as the AAHL playoff champions for that season. Still don't have much more info on the the series but apparently there was a playoff and the Thunderbirds did win are considered the champions that season. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.74.111.115 (talk) 12:25, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

I was going to see how you changed my info on some of the records the team still has in the ECHL to make it correct. I wasn't sure the best way to add what I thought were some interesting records and facts. If you knew a better way to add them or what the best option would be involving them? I read your comments on changes you make and try to correct how I add info. 108.74.111.115 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.74.111.115 (talk) 15:50, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Possibly using the Template:As of for MOS:DATED statements (such as my edit here), but usually it is best to not say them at all. Just say they set the record. Any prose statements with "current" are inherently very problematic. There are in fact efforts to remove stats sections from many minor team pages due to the DATED issues and WP:NOTSTATS. Also perhaps you should register a user name so I can communicate with you better. Yosemiter (talk) 16:01, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

OK thanks, I'll try to work around not making those mistakes and try to word them differently if it's possible to add them in a way that doesn't make them problematic and yes I'll register a user name to make it easier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.74.111.115 (talk) 16:08, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Separate Salt Lake Screaming Eagles and Fan-Controlled Football League
The page should be separated because the website redirects to the FCFL website. The team is a defunct franchise, yet is a part of the leagues history. Yes, the league has been pushed back to 2019, but still the Screaming Eagles website redirects to the FCFL website. NostalgiaBuff97501 (talk) 18:03, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
 * First off, I reverted your redirect because a redirect should never point to a redlink. Second, in terms of separating, the old website redirecting to a different website has absolutely nothing to do with notability, which is what the FCFL would need to be separated out. (It only means the owner of the old website decided to make it a redirect to a new one. There are lots of defunct teams with websites that go to new places or are just dead, like the Screaming Eagles. The Eagles got significant coverage, in part due to the system the FCFL wants to use, but has not yet actually done so yet without the Eagles.) As I stated in my revert, I personally do not think a that one more statement that has come out since Articles for deletion/Fan Controlled Football League fixes its issues, in that there is still no actual start date. Once we start seeing actual dates for actual scheduled games and a bit of press coverage, then maybe it will be enough. Continually pushing back start dates is never a good sign though, as evidenced by all the other leagues that got deleted recently, such as Articles for deletion/New United States Football League (4th nomination) and Articles for deletion/Global Indoor League. But that is just my two cents. Yosemiter (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

NAHL
Dear Yosemiter

I see that you are editing teams after I edited them. So I would like you to help me fix all the teams in the NAHL

You see, most of them don’t have the bars. So you can help fix them. Just go to the NAHL page and there’s a list of Teams and click on them and add the bars because they don’t have bars.

Hopefully you got all that 😀 Typerr (talk) 23:25, 30 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you want to help, but please do not make them worse for MOS:CONTRAST via edits like this one that is unreadable, and was technically fine before per the MOS. However, if you would like to fix what you have done so I don't have to waste my time fixing your mistakes, copy these changes and then change the color parameter in "border-top:" and "border-bottom:" to the team colors. (And by the way, I am not following you, I just watch 90% of all junior hockey pages.) Yosemiter (talk) 01:37, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Dmitri Sokolov
NO! DONT DELETE IT!!! IWORK SO HARD ON IT AND NOW MY HARD WORK WILL BE REDUCED TO NOTHING 😔😔😔 Typerr (talk) 20:53, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Ok, but please don’t delete it. Typerr (talk) 21:05, 3 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Would you like me to move it to your draft space? Yosemiter (talk) 21:06, 3 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes. But how Typerr (talk) 01:40, 4 May 2018 (UTC)


 * It is done. It will have one year for you to add content and submit thru AfC (as I outlined and linked on your talk page) before it gets deleted. However, I would not put much hope in him meeting NHOCKEY as 7th rd draft picks rarely make it to the NHL on their first year of an ELC. He has a better chance if he goes to the KHL though. Yosemiter (talk) 01:47, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

If you search him up on google an go to his statistics page, you can see what I’m saying is true. Typerr (talk) 01:49, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Whether or not someone exists or stats are true does not not matter, I have stats in Google too, but I am not notable. (Also wikipedia is not meant to be a stats page.) Widespread media coverage is what merits notability. Please read all the links I provided on your talk page before messaging me again. Thank you, Yosemiter (talk) 01:55, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Marksmen
Charlie Hildbold was made president of the team on May 18th. I tried To change the GM title to president, but it wouldn’t do it. So I put Him as GM. Marksmen technically don’t have a GM, they have a president, and it’s hildbold.

You can leave Longo on there, but he’s left the team, permanently and that won’t be posted in any newspaper article.

Thank you. Chuck7817 (talk) 10:54, 7 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the clarifications. Just to be clear, I did not disbelieve you, but ownership of teams is one of the most vandalized parameters on sports pages, so any unverifiable changes will almost always be reverted. You are correct, there is no president parameter in the ice hockey template. If there is no GM, then I would just leave it blank. It would be nice if there was a single statement that Longo is gone somewhere, but possibly the Staff listing on the Marksmen page where he isn't listed might work. (Am I to assume you are Chuck Norris? If so, please read WP:COI and how to best handle editing your team in the future.) Thank you for you contributions. Yosemiter (talk) 12:29, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

AIF revert
I realized that after I read what was said at Indoor Football Encyclopedia. I didn't have time to remove it. NostalgiaBuff97501 (talk) 19:44, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Elite Indoor Football
Is there a better way to create a page for Elite Indoor Football. I didn't create one because there where three attempts to do so by other people and they all got deleted. They do have a website: eiffootball.com. So it is obvious they exist. What more proof is needed to to show it does so that the page does not get deleted again and people and fans of this league called Wikipedia "irrelevant"? NostalgiaBuff97501 (talk) 17:28, 12 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I thought I explained pretty well on your page already that mere existence is not enough to imply notability. Did you read any of the multiple wikilinks I provided? Maybe I should quote myself: "Please read WP:NRV again, proof of existence is not merely enough, it must meet GNG. (Mainly this statement: No subject is automatically or inherently notable merely because it exists: The evidence must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition, and that this was not a mere short-term interest, nor a result of promotional activity or indiscriminate publicity, nor is the topic unsuitable for any other reason. Sources of evidence include recognized peer-reviewed publications, credible and authoritative books, reputable media sources, and other reliable sources generally.)" Do any of these 10 independent news reports show significant depth of coverage? (Rhetorical question because the answer is no, they are all only mentions in one sentence of each, usually in reference that some more notable subject played a team in that league.) The EIF operator, Bobby Dammarell of the Steam, has even self-declared that it is a semi-pro league, the teams can choose who or if they want to pay their players (not to mention Dammarell has declared bankruptcy previously). Even the website you mention was down just a couple of weeks ago because he forgot to re-up the site after a year. We are not a fan site, we are a collection of verifiable information, and there is basically zero coverage of this league, independent or otherwise. Without going to one of their own social media pages, could you find a single news report on a game? So to your answer you question of "Is there a better way to create a page for Elite Indoor Football"? The answer is still try another wiki where unverified user-generated content is accepted (like the Indoor Football Encyclopedia). Yosemiter (talk) 17:44, 12 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I did read what you said. No need to get huffy about it.  Just asked a question.  NostalgiaBuff97501 (talk) 17:57, 12 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm not huffy, I just thought if you had actually read the links, then GNG should have been clear here. There are a grand total of 10 news hits by independent media, none about the league itself or even any of its team's games. Also I should note, the deletions of the page were not all attempts to create the article. One was user requested after initially making it and then moving to a draft. Then once it was moved back into the mainspace, there was an AfD for it a month later and was severely targeted by a single sockpuppeting user who was mostly making vandalistic edits, including moving it after the AfD closed, hence more deletions. The last deletions were caused by a less than competent user moving the AfD to the mainspace and thus necessitating another deletion of an inappropriate cross-space redirect. It has really only been tried to be properly create once. Yosemiter (talk) 18:10, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Wichita Force
Hi Yosemiter. I work for the Wichita Force. I am updating our Wikipedia page and I am noticing you keep reverting my edits. I appreciate your help, but please stop undoing my work. The information I am adding/removing is requested by management. Also, INTRUST Bank Arena MUST be capitalized when mentioning them. I am fixing that also.

As for the logo, I uploaded the incorrect image size. It needs to be a smaller size. If you could assist me in fixing that I would appreciate it. The old logo, however, is cached on Google and keeps appearing as the main logo when someone searches for us. I am trying to fix that as requested by management. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SmashleighR86 (talk • contribs) 16:51, 21 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Please keep the discussion to your talk page. Thank you, Yosemiter (talk) 16:58, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

USACHL
Hello, I noticed that you have been editing the pages for the teams of the USACHL (Laredo Bucks (USACHL), Rio Grande Valley Killer Bees (USACHL)) calling them "proposed teams". I was wondering why you were doing that, seeing as you haven't cited anything that shows uncertainty in them actually starting up. Thanks, Sparkyb10123 (talk) 14:49, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Because the league right now is operating off WP:SPECULATION that it actually starts in October. Some of the people behind it have been in talks for the last couple of years to start a league (I feel at least Davidson was involved with the United Hockey Union's C1HL that was delayed and delayed and deleted). The problem with these proposed leagues are that until they actually have some sort of schedule, they are just proposed teams with conditional arena lease agreements. If you take a look at other junior leagues right now, most have their league alignment set for the 2018–19 season, most staff is announced, players are being signed, schedules are being finalized and released, etc. From a business perspective, I see it as overly optimistic that this league launches in October. (Maybe a late season start with Tier I/II/A castoffs?) New leagues like this are "launched" almost every season, see the C1HL, the Watertown Wolves' IDHL, spin-offs of other independent leagues and such. The only league/division I see as 90% likely to actually play this season the Western States Hockey League's WPHA. Hope this helps. Yosemiter (talk) 15:09, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

"Proposed" implies that nothing's been confirmed, but at this point they already have leases secured at their arenas. I would argue that WP:SPECULATION would go the other way, considering you've mentioned your skepticism in the edit summaries. While I'm not going to debate the merits of your skepticism, I would caution you to keep a neutral point of view in spite of it. I would also point to articles such as Maine Mariners (ECHL) (before they announced the 18-19 schedule) as a more appropriate way of wording, as you are right in that the schedule hasn't yet been announced. Sparkyb10123 (talk) 15:30, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 * As for "proposed" vs. "announced", to me it just phrasing and both sound neutral to me (the league has plans to play and has proposed six teams, with three announced, therefore the named team is one of the six proposed inaugural teams). It does not really matter to me. But to say "is set to begin play..." is incorrect as other than ownership, locations and a lease agreement, nothing is actually set (as I described above, they are in fact well behind their competition). The lease agreements does not mean they will absolutely play, which is why several of these teams fold midseason. If lease agreements really meant anything, the un-named Wichita Falls team will have to play for the next three years. Comparing it to an announced ECHL team, a widely covered league that has been around for 31 years, is hardly comparable. It might be more comparable to the something such as the Eastern Hockey League (2013–), which announced 8 expansion teams for the upcoming season only to reduce it to three by the time the alignment was announced. It also occasionally happens with Jr A leagues in Canada and extremely frequently in indoor/arena football in the States. The day the schedule is actually announced is the day I shift the facts from announced/proposed to an actual entity. Yosemiter (talk) 15:58, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 * As to my Speculation – Point #1: The first part is where I am saying it is not definite yet until it is almost certain to take place (announced schedule). The second part I think is what you are saying is based my opinion, but I would argue it is based my experience with these leagues. If I were to instead state something like "a team that hopes to play..." than it would be WP:EDITORIAL and problematic. Yosemiter (talk) 16:20, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 * The of course, the team articles themselves are currently in a state that have grounds for AfD in that they have neither sustained coverage (only have coverage of their singular announcement of the team, see also WP:NOTNEWS) or sources from multiple publishers per WP:GNG as needed to presume notability of the organization. But for now I give the benefit of doubt that there will eventually be more sources. If the league just fades away instead, an AfD or redirect may be in order in six months. Yosemiter (talk) 16:29, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

I don't think your experience matters when it comes to this, again, I'm not saying you're wrong. They may very well go up in smoke tomorrow. All I'm saying is that using words like "proposed" unduly suggests uncertainty about them, and even if they're not the ECHL, there's no reason to treat them as if they're somehow up in the air. If you think that "announced" is just as good as "proposed", them I'm totally cool with that. I just feel like it's best not to be overly suspicious of them. Sparkyb10123 (talk) 17:30, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

To clarify, I'm cool with using "announced". Sparkyb10123 (talk) 17:32, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I have rephrased their leads again, feel free to make changes. I was not intending to make it "suspicious", my intention was to show that it is not an established team in the first sentence. And pardon if I disagree with you, but there is a huge difference between independent junior leagues and the mid level pro league your are comparing it to in terms of both reliability of information given out and actual independent news coverage (or even compared to lower pro levels like the SPHL and FHL). This junior/minor pro hockey realm is where I spend 90% percent of my time editing. Yosemiter (talk) 18:40, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks man, no problem. Sparkyb10123 (talk) 19:15, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Comment about team season pages
I noticed you have created a few individual team season pages such as the recently created 2018–19 Minnesota Whitecaps season. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this as long as the subject passes WP:GNG (which I am presuming it will get significant coverage in a few sources). However, per MOS:DATED these types off pages should also be constantly updated, but I have seen no evidence of any editors willing to put in the time to do so. Per MOS:DATED, I have had to redirect almost all of these due to being severely incomplete (such as 2017–18 Kunlun Red Star WIH season, which had not been updated since your creation one year later). The league season pages seem to cover the really major details so the redirect seemed applicable. If you want to go back and fill out all the info relevant to that team's season, feel free to, but I have seen no evidence of that. We don't even have AHL team season pages for the same reason, so you are not alone. We just don't have enough willing hockey editors to keep the 1000s of hockey pages up to date to that degree. For minor and women's leagues, it pretty much just me until the playoffs. So if I change the Whitecaps' season page to redirect, please don't be offended, I am just consolidating what I edit. Yosemiter (talk) 02:25, 17 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello. Thank you for keeping me in the loop. Due to work responsibilities, a lot of editing fell by the wayside. Totally understandable how redirects took place. For the 2018-19 pages that I created (NWHL, Minnesota Whitecaps), I will be sure to update accordingly to ensure consistent coverage. About the Red Star, I apologize that this was neglected. Once things are back on track, I can update accordingly, as it was a very important season filled with many milestones for that franchise. Kind regards Mark Staffieri (talk) 19:23, 26 July 2018 (UTC)


 * you can just ping me on your page. I responded there to keep the discussion in one place instead of back-and-forth duplicates. Thank you Yosemiter (talk) 18:05, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Boston Pride
Hello ! Yeah, I am French but you don't need to be mean on the Revision history "modification terribly written (probably because the original writer is in French based on the cite template) and very messy. This is not a blog. Streamlined to the critical factors)" I am well aware this is not a blog, I am not stupid. I posted it because I considered the article needed an update and like you can, eventually, imagine, the english and the french wikipedia don't have the same philosophy on the addition which we consider interesting. So, I can understand you needed to corrected my proposition but take account that there is an human behind the screen, and that I can read what you said, thank you... Divergood (talk) 16:35, 28 July 2018 (UTC) Ps : Of course, I will not pursue any more updates considering the difference of philosophy Pps : On the french version, we have a bot that translate the cite template, that's why I didn't dot it.
 * I actually kept almost all of your intent in the addition, I just removed the WP:EDITORIAL style of the phrases. The English language WP frowns upon journalese and news style of writing here because it makes it sound unencyclopedic and more like a personal blog (like the use of "..." in a sentence that is not a quote). We also prefer not to use contractions in articles (your use of "couldn't"). You are free to add content (as I said, the intent was good, the execution was broken), even possibly including a new section on the Pride page with a list of players for the Pride that have represented their senior National Teams. My French is not great, but it seemed like it was taken from Google translate directly, which has a tendency to leave the intent of the translation but the grammar and format get tossed in a blender. (Such as calling "regulars season" over the English "regular season" possibly? Maybe just a typo?) If you add, I will continue to fix, because that is what I do. Note, nowhere did I call you stupid nor did I consider it. I merely commented that way possibly to drive you here to discuss an edit that should have been better edited rather then the form that you published. I was commenting directly about the edit, not the editor, so if you are offended by my dislike of style of editing that appears to have been poorly executed and feel that I was attacking you personally, then I'm not actually sorry about that because it got your attention. I don't feel it was an attack, but different people have different opinions and feelings, and perhaps you are just more sensitive to those things. (I am definitely not sensitive. I am insensitive, sarcastic jackass who likes hockey and perfectly fine with that.) Yosemiter (talk) 18:01, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Sault Sainte Marie arena name change
Do you have time to clean up the changes made here and at Essar Centre? I'm swamped in real life tonight. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 20:05, 1 August 2018 (UTC)


 * If you mean the piping from the arena name change, I fixed that now. It looks like the new name is now in place based off the arena website. Yosemiter (talk) 22:05, 1 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 04:24, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Quebec Phenix
Hi Yosemiter, I see you were quick to make a change to the CWHL page - I was trying to correct an error and happy to have you help. In 2007-08, both the Montreal Stars and Quebec Phenix played in Montreal. They did NOT play in Quebec City. The Quebec Phenix team was the old Quebec Avalanche team from the NWHL. They played their home games in several arenas notably Ed Meagher Arena, Maurice Richard Arena, and CEGEP St-Laurent. NOTE the team name is "du Quebec" which references the province, not the city (otherwise it would be "de Quebec").
 * Funny I was writing a message on your talk page as well as I was finding contradictory sources. Do you have sources to cite on the page? It really needs some. Yosemiter (talk) 18:53, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

@Yosemiter Hi Yosimeter. I am happy to help. The first article by Toronto Star is correct - two teams in Montreal (they were the Axion and Avalanche in the NWHL... and became the Stars and Phenix in the CWHL). The league is working towards publishing those game-by-game records. Games that year were played at CEGEP St- Laurent (5 games), Maurice Richard (3 games), Ed Meagher (2 games), Pierrefonds (2 games), Chenier (2 games), Bécancour (1 game), and Edouard-Rivest (1 game). Also, per the reference of 'approximately 50 fans per game' - that is accurate, but I do not have attendance for those particular games and I do not know where that article/reference lives.

@Yosemiter Thanks for your help. FYI, the note that suggests several players were at U.Laval is also incorrect. The reference is dead... but if that writer suggested Laval players, he was incorrect in his writing. There would be more Concordia players than Laval players on that team.

Lets keep to conversation on one page please. Yosemiter (talk) 01:09, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Apology over Red Star conundrum
Hi Yosemiter. Sorry for the headaches caused. I failed to realize that the Kunlun Red Star was also the name of the KHL team. Thought my workarounds were suitable but I am glad that everything worked out in the end. Once again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused through my oversights. Mark Staffieri (talk) 13:54, 8 August 2018 (UTC)


 * No worries, it seemed like an simple mistake to make and was clearly a good faith edit. I just wanted to slow your edits down while the mistake was taken care of so that you are rightly attributed for your helpful contributions. (To be fair, I learned about broken moves also by making a similar mistake, so you are definitely not the first to do this, nor will you be the last.) Yosemiter (talk) 14:57, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Request for an article
I have recently expanded articles for OHL and QMJHL presidents David Branch and Gilles Courteau. I noticed there is no article for the Western Hockey League president Ron Robison. Would you be interested in writing that one? Flibirigit (talk) 16:48, 19 September 2018 (UTC)


 * sorry for the delayed response. I may not be the best for this one, I focus more on teams than bios, usually easier to source for GNG. I am also quite busy at work and life at the moment, but I may be able to put together a rough draft in a week or so. A brief look turns about 1,000 G-News hits, certainly seems sufficient for GNG, just finding good ones to write a bio one may take time to sort out the routine mentions. Yosemiter (talk) 03:16, 22 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks, no rush on this one. I'm focusing on Quebec-related people recently. I haven't found anyone else who understands French well enough to help. Flibirigit (talk) 14:38, 24 September 2018 (UTC)


 * I think is Western Canadian, and could help?? Flibirigit (talk) 14:40, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Used to be, but I moved to the east coast about a decade ago now. I could take a look but it wouldn't be anytime soon. Bit busy IRL lately. -DJSasso (talk) 16:50, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

tatiana rafter
I was curious about something in regards to her AFD. There is national media attention for the charity event (play for petty) that she organized with her brother, but I am out of my depth in deciding whether that is relevant in regards to coverage about her, or just for the event.18abruce (talk)


 * I was doing some digging (looks like we were coming across the same articles) but had to go run some experiments. Came back to finish during lunch. I have commented on the AfD, but I feel similar to you, not really sure how to weigh the charity event (I linked the CBC article, but it did come from the Manitoba-region coverage, which kind of puts it on par the Winnipeg papers). The charity event could also be a WP:1E. Not an outright, clear lack of notability for Rafter like some of the other NWHL noms. Yosemiter (talk) 19:32, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Birmingham NBA G-League rumors
Found this on Google search. There are a LOT of articles talking about a new NBA G-League team in Birmingham, Alabama that would be owned by the New Orleans Pelicans. Some say "rumors", others say "happening". Could you double check and see if this is indeed legit? Sources: Pelicans Launching G-League Team In Alabama Main source was Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn: "New Orleans is launching a G League affiliate in Birmingham, Ala., league sources tell ESPN. Team will start play in Erie, Pa. next season until renovations are complete on arena in Birmingham." Thanks. NostalgiaBuff97501 (talk) 16:59, 24 October 2018 (UTC)


 * See my comments in the edit history yesterday on NBA G League. In short, they are rumors until either the Pelicans or the G League say it is happening. (It does get a mention at NBA G League.) Yosemiter (talk) 17:13, 24 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The league just announced, so it is official now. However, the NBA wikiproject keeps all franchises as one article, so the new team article should be created as Erie BayHawks (2019–), similar to how Erie BayHawks (2017–) was done when the Erie BayHawks (2008–2017) became the Lakeland Magic. Yosemiter (talk) 19:11, 24 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Man, Erie is going to have three different franchises with the same name. Good catch.  I am glad you held off on the BayHawks name, sort of.  Thanks.  NostalgiaBuff97501 (talk) 05:32, 25 October 2018 (UTC)


 * It gets complicated by the various different wikiproject's consensus for teams and franchises. The NBA project normally likes one franchise on one article such as Syracuse Nationals (in Philadelphia 76ers) and Minneapolis Lakers (in LA Lakers), but then things like the Vancouver Grizzlies exist because "they like it". The Hockey Project likes to keep teams as one article, so when a franchise relocates it gets a new page and the previous team becomes a historical article, such as Atlanta Thrashers is separate from Winnipeg Jets. There are complications for orgs that use multiple franchises, but those are typically addressed easily on a single article under one name, such as St. John's IceCaps and Maine Mariners, but not if it is a different org with the same name or a different league such as Maine Mariners (ECHL). The Gridiron project is probably the oddest and least likely to meet actual Wikipedia guidelines as they prefer to have single articles per franchise, but then have "historical" articles like History of the San Diego Chargers (which per WP:COMMONNAME should really just be called San Diego Chargers, which also redirects there anyways). I did try to convince the NBA project a few years ago to have historical articles for teams like the Bakersfield Jam (and Long Beach Jam) per WP:NOTPAPER as it was a well covered team in its own right to meet WP:GNG, but was promptly and unanimously voted against. So now we have three Erie teams, that will all be odd redirects by 2022. Yosemiter (talk) 18:57, 25 October 2018 (UTC)


 * And I'm sure there will be no logo up until something is announced. NostalgiaBuff97501 (talk) 07:52, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Los Angeles Chargers
Yosemiter, I did notice that the Los Angeles Chargers page was somewhat reverted back to the San Diego Chargers. Perhaps someone feels that they are still San Diego or have they just decided to be smart allics. It needs to be brought back current, but I guess some don't wanna let it go. NostalgiaBuff97501 (talk) 07:33, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Pretty typical vandalism for the major leagues, just behind changing the team owners (because that team just got "OWNED" and such). User:Bagumba already reverted it. Yosemiter (talk) 12:36, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Perfect! Tell him, thank you from all of us.  NostalgiaBuff97501 (talk) 16:38, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Mountain West championship game host selectioin
Thank you for your edit on the 2018 Mountain West Conference Football Championship Game to clarify why Boise State is hosting. However, due to the debacle last season, the Mountain West changed their rules. Thus, Boise State is hosting due to the head-to-head win and not from being ranked how. I reverted your edit, just wanted to let you know why. Here is a link to the new rules listing head-to-head as the first tiebreaker link. Bsuorangecrush (talk) 19:05, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

My mistake then, thanks for letting me know. I guess I missed that update and since I didn't see a source for the change, I made a bad assumption after seeing what happened last season. Yosemiter (talk) 19:07, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Russian team page
Mind taking a look at their edits on Russia men's national ice hockey team. I can't revert. Some of what they have is probably ok, some small copy editing things. But they removed the same information there and used language like they were forced to not be the Russian team for the last Olympics. All very clearly biased. -DJSasso (talk) 00:11, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Also requested temporary page protection on both of them for now. -DJSasso (talk) 00:27, 7 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Took a stab at it. Yosemiter (talk) 00:32, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah that looks much better. -DJSasso (talk) 00:34, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Edit warring at Russia men's national ice hockey team
Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing&mdash;especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you don't violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Don't keep reverting the other editors. Instead, start a discussion at the talk page and work out your disagreements there. -- MelanieN (talk) 03:40, 8 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you'll notice I am not simply reverting? An IP came by and removed sourced info. Someone else reverted. It was deleted again along with several informational edits, but heavily WP:PEACOCKed. I cleaned the edit and re-added the sourced info (they deleted all sorts of other relevant info that they didn't like such as the 2018 doping ban on the ROC, and re-adding any of that type of deletions would usually constitute as reverting vandalism, which last time I checked doesn't count towards 3RR). The professional player "controversy" (which it was never called in the article, only by the IP) and "Western propaganda" (again it was never called that in the article) was deleted again. I don't believe it was rightly deleted as it is well known and well sourced (twice). But both times, it was adding more info and changing the format of the info to sound less biased, all with citations, while simultaneously being reverted/deleted every time as "propaganda" despite their being literal books on the subject. This page is well known to have occasional editors come through and deleted content they disagree with. I was merely improving the content and addressing every concern given by the deleting editor in the edit summaries for why they kept removing it and why it should be kept. But either way I am done with it. I only got involved because I was asked to clean up the page and noticed I was being reverted for no encyclopedic reason. Yosemiter (talk) 04:26, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Re: Civility
Several of your recent edit summaries may be in violation of WP:CIVIL...you have a tendency to rant (for instance, in your recent edits to NBA G League among others) and go for the vulgarities (in your edits to De'Anthony Melton and Deandre Ayton among others) in said edit summaries.

Wikipedia apparently doesn't have an official warning template anymore, so I have to write this message myself: Please stop that uncivil commentary in edit summaries. Be concise, to the point, and assume good faith above all. If said uncivil commentary continues, I will seek the next steps in the process, up to and including reporting this to the admin's noticeboard. Thank you. Tom Danson (talk) 09:49, 4 January 2019 (UTC)


 * How are you involved here? I like to explain my reverts, even if thorough, not sure any one would normally complain about perhaps over-explaining as opposed to under. (NBA G League, I used examples why not to clutter the table, in an edit summary, just like we are supposed to do with reverts.) As to anything relating to the Suns, please inform yourself on the problem editor first, who has been discussed at length at the WikiprojectNBA page (such as Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 35 and their entire talk page). So please go ahead with ANI, but I my guess is that would be foolish. Yosemiter (talk) 13:49, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Re: Orlando Predators NAL team
Here the logo being used. Do a new article. NostalgiaBuff97501 (talk) 17:29, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Once it gets more coverage, yes it should definitely get a new article. The reason that I believe they are not directly connected is that the Predators were not sold or given to McEntyre and his group. The trademark lapsed in in September 2018 and the new group made a new one in in November. That is why the new group could not obtain OrlandoPredators.com (still owned by Siegal and redirects to his Westgate site) and other minor changes. As an aside, this is a common move for the NAL and Bouchy has also obtained the Nashville Kats and New York Dragons names for the last couple of years. Yosemiter (talk) 17:36, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Austin Elite
Hi Yosemiter, I reinstated some of the list defined references on the Austin Elite page for the non-seasonal sections. This was the original method and it's a cleaner style for the more permanent sections. Happy to discuss further if you want to question the approach. Cheers -- Ham105 (talk) 03:02, 21 January 2019 (UTC)


 * That's fine, to each their own. In my defense though, it was mixed as there were two refs in-line (in the roster) and four in the footer (not counting the ref that appeared to no longer be in use, which seems to invalidate the "more permanent sections" usage). I mostly just got there though gnoming and noticed the incorrect MOS:DATE usage of Month/Day in the tables as well as a variety of other MOS issues. I did the same thing here. I was going to eventually clean all of the MLR teams for that reason, but I will not change the refs I guess. However, in my opinion, having the ref where it is used is easier to update (once all whitespace in the template is removed) and is used in the majority of articles (including most featured articles) that I have come across for that very reason. Just my 2 cents though, take it as you will. Yosemiter (talk) 03:37, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Stadium change
The Raiders don't play in Oakland anymore they will be playing at Oracle Park in San Francisco for the 2019 season. Bigz8484 (talk) 16:09, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Read my edit summaries, the sources are all unverified speculative reports. Wikipedia only publishes verified reports, not speculative unconfirmed "inside sources say..." posts. (read those links as well regarding the policies here.) Once it is official (maybe tomorrow? The 49ers still need to sign off on territorial rights first it seems according to the same reports, before it can be finalized), then we make the appropriate changes. That is why the Oakland Raiders main page has been completely locked from editing. Yosemiter (talk) 16:13, 4 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Per ESPN a few hours ago:


 * That is probably the most reliable statement yet, and it clearly says it is not final (and a couple levels of hearsay). Because of such vague statements on the certainty of the situation, Wikipedia must treat them as unfinalized as well per WP:RSBREAKING. Thank you, Yosemiter (talk) 16:26, 4 February 2019 (UTC)


 * And yet another reason we we don't count our chickens before they hatch: Raiders not expected to play in San Francisco in 2019 – NFL.com, February 5, 2019. Yosemiter (talk) 17:24, 6 February 2019 (UTC)