User talk:Yousaf465/Archive 2 all after 22 july 2006 till March 2007

ok
DeepSpace 10:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

MSN should be fine
deepspace88 @ hotmail.com DeepSpace 10:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm almost always online, so that shouldn't be a problem.
--DeepSpace 14:08, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

pl would you help with my userboxes
they are not lining up.pl help.Yousaf465
 * Okay, here you go. Stifle (talk) 12:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict‎
Hi there Yousaf. I don't think you should use the informal language in this article. Thanks, Blnguyen | rant-line 07:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

WP:3RR
Watch out for 3RR. If you see a problem with the text, discuss it on the Talk instead of reverting. Cheers,  Tewfik Talk 07:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * There is really no reason for hostility. I was merely pointing out that you were engaging in problematic behaviour, as I also did to the other party in the edit-war. Cheers,  Tewfik Talk 15:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but my warning had nothing to do with the content that you added; I also warned the other user. I was merely letting you both know that violation of Three-revert rule was approaching, and that in general it is more productive to discuss on Talk than to revert each other. I hope that you continue to contribute constructively to Wikipedia. Cheers,  Tewfik Talk 18:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I actually do have an interest in photography, though I am far from professional. Why do you ask?  Tewfik Talk 18:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Its funny that you mention that, as I just recently got the Canon model you mentioned as a gift and am satisfied with it, though I didn't really investigate the Sony beforehand. Wish I could be more helpful.  Tewfik Talk 19:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I didn't understand what you said. COuld you repeat it a little clearer?  Tewfik Talk 19:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I really just started using it, and so I don't think I know it well enough to analyse, especially as I haven't researched the other models and their features. I would recommend checking this, this, and this. Best of luck,  Tewfik Talk 22:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of Ynet news.com citations
I realise they are biased but please dont delete citations, can you put them back? Thanks. 82.29.227.171 19:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC) Where to answer your query.Yousaf465

Zar'it-Ayta ash-Shab
Hello again. I'm really going to have insist that you use edit summaries, and that you explain clearly any removal of cited material. Thanks. El_C 19:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Care to comment?
There is a discussion on Roles of non-combatant State and non-State actors in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict talkpage about the inclusion of detail for Israel. I am of the view that Israel should be included but the detail is being continually removed by User:Tewfik.

Tewfik's argument is what he considers the illegality of Hezbollah under UN 1559 as the reason he removed the detail. However, Tewfik has not removed recent requests of arms sales to Israel such as jet fuel and GBU-28's. I believe he is pushing the POV that aid to Israel is only in response to the current crisis or the illegality of Hezbollah under 1559. US aid to Israel is in fact a long standing agreement responsible for the size and makeup of the IDF. Without the aid they would not have a military capable of engaging in conflict. If you can take a look and support my position (was working under 82.29.227.171) that would be great. RandomGalen 11:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Mirsad-1
Thanks for catching my mistake about what was said. You are, of course correct. I should have seen that myself, since he claims that Hezbollah developed the vehicles themselves. Any idea if that can be confirmed from a verifiable source? Akradecki 20:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a shame that political reasons make it hard for us unbiased historians to record things for posterity! I agree, the UAV seems rather unsophisticated, but then again, sophistication in such things isn't necessarily that important to accomplishing the task. I guess I'm most surprised that this hasn't been done more. Any good hobby shop here in the US has RC airplanes, and some hobbyists' planes can get quite large. Akradecki 20:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Theft
I don't understand what you are referring to. Please clarify,  Tewfik Talk 14:32, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No problem (if I understood

). Cheers,  Tewfik Talk 21:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

"cross-border"
This has been discussed numerous times on Talk - I suggest to review some of the archives there. In short, the UN, EU, G8, and mainstream media, including Al Jazeera, have characterised Hezbollah's raid as "cross-border." You can check more detailed citations at Ayta al-Sha`b incident. Keep in mind that Wikipedia functions not on what we percieve to be true, but on what is verifiable. Feel free to ask me any qyestions on this or other WP stuff. Cheers,  Tewfik Talk 07:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The Lebanese police claim is mentioned, but as it was only stated once and reported in a few articles, and not repeated by any media, and never stated officially by the Police or any other organisation (including Hizballah I believe, not that that is relevant), it doesn't deserve more than a mention. If Al Jazeera agrees to this, then it is truly consensus. Let me know,  Tewfik Talk 08:04, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't quite understand your posting, but if you are concerned about a pro US bias, I repeat that Al Jazeera also reported this. And of course the EU isn't exactly an American lapdog. Anyways...  Tewfik Talk 08:17, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Please stop removing sourced detail. If you disagree with these points, please raise them on the page's Talk and attempt to create a discussion. Then consensus will decide how to deal with them.  Tewfik Talk 08:27, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm aware of the criticism of Al Jazeera, but we've gotten sidetracked. The vast majority of sources have reported it as "cross-border." If that changed, or a significant minority emerged that reported it differently, that should be included. But I'm not aware of any such shift in reporting. For a start, if you can find a current article (meaning from after the first week or two of fighting, once the details became clear) that reports things differently, then post that in Talk. But do not insert this claim into the article until you've done so, and it has been confirmed by consensus on the page's Talk. Cheers,  Tewfik Talk 08:36, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm still not sure what you meant to say, but assuming I got the gist: Wikipedia is based on WP:Verifiability, and not truth. If there's really a mass conspiracy and the UN, EU, G8, and mainstream media as well as Al Jazeera have all fallen prey to it, then thats too bad, because we can only represent what the world accepts

. Cheers,  Tewfik Talk 03:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

(I apologise in advance if I did not understand you) I'm not totally sure of your point, but the fact that the sources that initially reported this changed their story undermines the credibility of the original claim. (What does USSp mean?) Cheers,  Tewfik Talk 03:26, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand what USSp9israeli0 means. Read through the verifiability policy - for better or for worse, that is the most important qualification for this type of issue. In terms of credibility, I was only pointing out that a lack of reprinting, and indeed a wholesale replacement with a different story, does not make the original claim seem more credible. Cheers,  Tewfik <sup style="color:#888888;">Talk 03:48, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Something for you
Here's something, you will defentily call POV, which will just prove the point.

rv vandalism
Someone deleted 90% of the page, so I reverted. Precis 13:28, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Oil spill
The currently cited BBC report says 120 km. While what you claim is plausible, it would be ideal if you didn't change the number without a citation. Cheers,  Tewfik <sup style="color:#888888;">Talk 07:31, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed the old BBC report, but it didn't say 140. The one you added is the one used now that says 120 (BBC report). Cheers,  Tewfik <sup style="color:#888888;">Talk 07:40, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You only need one, and if the BBC report is totally repeated, remove it. The best source would be the UNEP report that Al Jazeera quoted (if you can find it on Google), as that seems to be where all the good information is. Good job,  Tewfik <sup style="color:#888888;">Talk 07:44, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Sure, replace the older reference with the newer one as long as no details lose their citation. Cheers,  Tewfik <sup style="color:#888888;">Talk 07:49, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I didn't do anything to it (AFAIK), and I didn't notice any changes to it. Let me know if I missed something. As a side point, you really shouldn't remove the "convicted murderer" from in front of Samir Qantar's name, as he was convicted of killing the girl and her father etc., and doesn't deny doing so to boot (on the contrary, he believes that what he did was a heroic act against Israel).  Tewfik <sup style="color:#888888;">Talk 22:16, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:Samra Airblue.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Samra Airblue.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the GFDL-self tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Fair use, use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 22:15, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Casus belli
The source provided is from 7-12, and isn't indication that it has been proven true. If you can provide a current source from a RS, then we can discuss, but this has been dealt with extensively over the last month. Cheers,  Tewfik <sup style="color:#888888;">Talk 05:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure I understood you, but the source you supplied saying that Israel actually crossed into Lebanon first is from the first few days of the conflict, and has not been repeated by any verifiable source. On the contrary, the UN, EU, G8, and mainstream media, including Al Jazeera, have all characterised Hezbollah's raid as "cross border." If you find a current source presenting an alternative version, please let me know or post it to Talk. (I also didn't understand your previous comments) Cheers,  Tewfik <sup style="color:#888888;">Talk 19:38, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: do you exist here
AA Yousaf. Yes, you have found another Pakistani Wikipedian! ..perhaps we can collaborate on articles of mutual interest? Talk to you soon. - Sohailstyle UTC 18:40, August 27, 2006

Re: Intelligence service
That is an interesting aobservation you made there that I may be an Intel agent. Is there any particular reason to suspect that I may be working for any Intelligence service? :-) --Idleguy 02:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you are letting your imagination run wild. I wish I were an intel agent, driving a car with missiles like James Bond, but unfortunately I am not. --Idleguy 14:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Watching/Reading too many spy thrillers, haven't you? --Idleguy 17:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

If I were a real spy, I'd have tracked your location by now and... You get the idea. --Idleguy 16:35, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: Wikipedia on mobile
See WAP access Tra (Talk) 12:15, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If you want it actually on the Wikimedia servers, you could file a feature request at Bugzilla. Tra (Talk) 15:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you mean have it as a separate wiki? You can propose new projects at Proposals_for_new_projects Tra (Talk) 18:07, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Hongdu JL-8
The previous comment was based on incorrect information, and I've corrected it. &mdash;  Imp i  10:29, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The information was not added to the article itself, and I therefore think your statement is entirely unjustified. If you insist on speaking to other editors with such undisguised arrogance, then I fear you shall not find much willing co-operation coming your way. I would keep that in mind if I were you. &mdash;  Imp i  20:41, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

PNS Behr Paima
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as PNS Behr Paima, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material. This article appears to be a direct copy from http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/pakistan/sv-behr-paima.htm, and therefore a copyright violation. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted.

If you believe that the article is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL), you can comment to that effect on Talk:PNS Behr Paima. Then you should do one of the following:
 * Make a note on the original website that re-use is permitted under the GFDL and state at Talk:PNS Behr Paima where we can find that note; or
 * Send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions(at)wikimedia(dot)org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the GFDL, and note that you have done so on Talk:PNS Behr Paima.

It is also important that the text be modified to have an encyclopedic tone and that it follows Wikipedia article layout. For more information, see Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Whpq 13:14, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Energy portal
Hi! As a contributor to WikiProject Energy development, I thought you might like to be aware of the opportunity to contribute to the new Energy Portal, now that there is one... No need to reply. Gralo 17:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

2006 North Korean nuclear test
Good Hello. I've reverted your recent edit to the 2006 North Korean nuclear test article as it seemed pretty POV and did not provide a source or any evidence. If you do have evidence to back up your claim, please start a thread here on the discussion page and discuss. Cheers. L0b0t 17:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * "your revert in my pov seems as biased bcz you have servered with U.S military so might be little predijuied about anything said against it.ThnaksYousaf465"
 * I understand your concern. If you have a source for your claim, please feel free to put it back in the article. Cheers. L0b0t 17:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Fantastic, I eagerly await your posting of the source. Cheers. L0b0t 13:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * A source in Urdu is not going to be verifiable by most of us. If you can't find a good source in English then you probably aren't going to be convincing anybody. See our policies on Verifiability and Reliable Sources. In any case, all reputable English sources say that Khan confessed to providing technology to North Korea; I haven't seen anything that would make me doubt that. The article does not, however, say or even imply that this had anything to do with the nuclear test, of which there is simply no evidence either way at the moment (there is far too little known about what Khan gave to North Korea to really know about that at this point, in my opinion). And for the record I haven't served in the U.S. military. --Fastfission 23:28, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I am not sure you English is good enough to really carry on meaningful conversation here — you seem to have totally missed my point. My point is that there is no way to know, at the moment, whether the technology sold to North Korea had anything to do with the test or not. As for the source in Urdu, if the only source of something as important as that is unavailable in English, and is in fact available from only one website, then it probably is not a "reliable source" as defined in our reliable source policy. The use of non-English sources is reserved for pretty limited cases where there is no reason for something to exist in English — something as important as this would definitely have reason to exist in English if it were reliable.
 * As for the plutonium question; personally I think that the device probably was plutonium (North Korean plutonium production was far ahead of their uranium production, as far as anyone knows), but at the moment there is no real way to know. In any case, it is not clear what technology Khan actually sold to North Korea — in the case of Libya, for example, he sold both centrifuges for uranium enrichment as well as nuclear bomb designs. Even with a plutonium core it is possible that Khan network technology had something to do with the North Korean bomb. We just don't know at this stage either way.
 * The Khan line is a single piece of background information to which not a lot of attention is given — the place it is in the text is meant only to imply that this was part of the way in which North Korea was circumventing the Agreed Framework of 1994. It does not imply that there was any Khan connection to this test. I fear your English is not good enough to recognize this, though, and I do not meant this as a slur (my Urdu is certainly nonexistent). --Fastfission 00:52, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Your recent edits to the "Ahmadi" article
Hi, I've reverted some of your edits to the "Ahmadi" article. I have tried to give details of the reasons on the Ahmadi Discussion page. Best regards, Nazli 18:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your reply and comments. I have responded to them on the Ahmadi Discussion page so other interested parties can also contribute to the disucssion if they want. Regrds. Nazli 04:34, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you again for your comments. I have replied on the Ahmadi discussion page again since I believe that this discussion is important and should be as universally visible as possible so if they desire, other parties can also take an interest and comment. Best regards. Nazli 09:49, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your comments. You will find my reply on the Ahmadi dsicussion page. Best regards Nazli 17:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

country
im not sure what you mean, but im from canada, china,and pakistan--AeomMai 13:25, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

==please don't mess up Gutenberg== Reverts and multiple major edits of the sort I found there today do not help. I've postingthe identical note on another page as well.DGG 06:18, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

apology for the above
Apologies--the above note was meant for someone else. I had to many windows open. Please feel free to blank it.

re the link you referred me to
Thank you for the link to the BBC site. Unfortuantely the links does not work. I would like to read this reference, could you please check to see if the address you gave me is correct. Thank you. Nazli 15:24, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

VP approval
Please spend some time vandal fighting manually then I may reconsider or seek views from other VP moderators.-- Andeh 17:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

MQ-1 Predator edit
Thanks for your edit to the Predator page, but I noticed that your contribution was uncited. Those of us working the UAV project are striving hard to produce Feature-article quality text, so citations of any information are highly important. Whenever you add information like this, please cite a reliable reference for it. I've rewritten the paragraph to conform to the ABC news report, and added a citation. Feel free to edit it further, but at the same time, any further information needs to be cited. Thanks! Akradecki 16:20, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * i have added the citations to the said article.thanksYousaf465
 * I've gone back and added the ABC and CNN reports and their information. On Wikipedia, they are considered proper, independent sources, and your deletion of them could be viewed as POV. I've also cleaned up the grammar on the sections you added. Finally, when adding source info, please use the Template:Cite web. Akradecki 20:21, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the cite web template,I was searching for it but couldn't find it.Now onwards i will this temp.About cnn and abc i would like to say that as this strike was conducted on pakistani soil so a local paper such as dawn's sources will be more realiable than a foregin one so i was following the dawn report.If it had been a new york air strike i could have followed the cnn.similar is the case for abc.Best Regards.Yousaf465

Welcome to India
Welcome to India. Where will you be arriving in India exactly? Business or pleasure? Idleguy 08:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, it's not just the embassy, but the entire government machinery that is slow and corrupted in India. I guess it's not too different on the other side of the border. Idleguy 03:12, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Welcome back. Hope you enjoyed India. But what train did you say it was? I couldn't make it from your message. Did u mean sabari train? or sabarmathi express or something else? One day I'm planning to visit Pakistan myself. Can you give a couple of cities that will cover what Pakistan has to show? Idleguy 06:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think Yousaf means Shatabdi Express &mdash; Lost (talk) 07:38, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Come fly with us

 * —— Eagle (ask me for help) 21:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Thank you for your contributions to the article concerning the Israeli-Lebanon conflict. I you need help, let me know. Jaber 20:10, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

what pov? the complete destruction of the state of israel? Jaber 18:57, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Yousaf
Hi,

saw your msg, nice to see a likeminded person. So do you have any image collection of yours.

--M.arunprasad 11:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * May be something you have taken recently. --M.arunprasad 13:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll wait for your images :-) . I see that you like Sherlock Holmes, have you read all the novels and short stories starring Holmes ? I like the character very much, though i could not imagine that someone could match his skills in real life but he is simply superb. --M.arunprasad 05:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Box from Talk:Abortion
You referred to a "talk about" box. I hope this was the one you meant. Add the code below to the top of a Talk page:

talkheader

If it's still not the box you're looking for, let me know, because there's quite a lot of boxes on Talk:Abortion. -Severa (!!!) 19:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The navigation box Abortion was custom made. To start your own template, go to an unused template name, like Template:ExampleTitle (pick a name that's relevant to the topic and easy to remember). Go to WP:MoS if you need help coding your template box or just copy the code of another template and edit it until it suits you (for example, go to Template:Abortion, click "edit this page," and copy and paste the code into a new template). When you are finished making the box, you can place the template in articles by using a code like, with "ExampleTitle" being replaced with whatever you named your template. I hope this description has helped. -Severa (!!!) 08:29, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

here is the vandal shuld rest
I just copyedited the Akbar Bugti page - it was a crying shame...

Faiz says, in "Mujh-se Pahli-si Mohabbat, Mere Mehboob, Na Maang":

Tera gham hai to gham-e-dahr ka jhagra kya hai?

It's a love poem of course, and I can't resist the next two lines:

Teri surat se hai aalam mein baharon ko sabat,<BR> Teri aankhon ke siwa duniya mein rakha kya hai?

Mukerjee 05:22, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Double Standards
Please don't show double Standards. Rumpelstiltskin223 11:20, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi yousaf. The thing is that your edits are Original research. Calling LeT "Partisan" where notable and Reliable Sources call them "Islamic Extremist Terrorist" is clearly original research on your part. Such things are against wikipedia rules so I request you to follow them. If you keep making such edits as you have then you are Disrupting wikipedia to make a point, which is also against wikipedia rules. I think you know what I mean by Double Standard here as you keep calling Let "Partisan Terrorist" but call HU a "Hindu terrorist", where no reliable sources attest to either. I suggest you learn these wikipedia rules if you are to work with wikipedians who are following these rules. Rumpelstiltskin223 05:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid that it is not a valid argument. Wikipedia regards bbc etc. as Reliable Sources, so that's how it is. By your reasoning, any source can be dismissed as "unreliable" based on specious grounds and all wikipedia will come to a grinding halt. Rumpelstiltskin223 05:41, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

OK. I'll tell you what. I am working on the article right now. I will look at your issues and find reliable sources for everything. Also, i thin it is ok to change Terrorist to Militant in the article and to mention that they are recognized as terrorist by USA, Pakistan, and India. Please check back later.Rumpelstiltskin223 05:43, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I would have to agree with Rumpel that you employ double standards. In this edit in Haganah you want it to be termed as "terrorist", but then for other articles where you wish to push your POV, like this edit you conveniently rename what the article states as terrorist groups to "partisan". That's what I call partisan editing. Idleguy 10:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Before you continue to edit, I suggest you brush up on the differences between a partisan, a guerilla and a terrorist. I see that is where the whole problem is because the naga rebels would be guerillas not partisans. btw, if a group is accused of terrorism, then we need credible sources to back it up. That is what you haven't provided. and no historian called the mukti bahini a terrorist group. So stop rewriting history. Idleguy 05:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:UP
Hi, I think the threats to World Peace template on your userpage is distasteful and violates the guidelines set out in WP:UP. Your user page is not for you to express your own opinions. I am sure you are a nice person and a good wikipedian and ask for you to remove it. Thanks. frummer 12:48, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Repeated messages
I don't know why you are bombing my talk page with multiple messages on the same subject. you've initiated 3 talk page discussions. once is enough. I'll reply in the article's talk page. Idleguy 14:07, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Pakistani AF C-130 suspicious crash
I would like to thank you for your editing on the still-mysterious loss (in my humble opinion) of Pakistani AF C-130B 23494 on 17 August 1988. I am not sure that the truth about this crash will ever be known.

Mark Sublette 07:25, 2 February 2007 (UTC)Mark SubletteMark Sublette 07:25, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

re POV
If you noticed carefully, in this diff in line 71, it stated that "Many of the independent sources, even one of the India military chiefs at that time admitted the total air superiority achieved by the Pakistani air force with in 3 days of the war." It was only this absurd statement that i removed outright. As for the "invading Indian who were unable to match up to it's thunder" I think it's POV because "invading" is a POV term, and even against history, especially considering that Pakistan's Operation Gibraltar was the invading op that led to the war. Further the line "unable to match up" is subjective and is POV. Finally none of the statements were properly sourced from any reliable reference. See WP:CITE Thanks. Idleguy 06:15, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I didn't added that "Many of the independent sources, even one of the India military chiefs at that time admitted the total air superiority achieved by the Pakistani air force with in 3 days of the war." line.By invading i meant that this particualr war machine was mostly used over Pakistani airspace so indian were in invading position.

Even your assumption that it was Pakistan which statred the war then your are denying three major pre war events I don't know if Indian mention those events or not but it was India's plan to move into desert.User talk:Yousaf465


 * I never said you added the first statement but that it was already existing and given the limited space in an edit summary two things can't be said without joining sentences. That's all.


 * btw, it's not my assumption but a well documented fact that Op Gibraltar was blamed by EVERY Pakistani writer/general/historian as the reason for sparking the war. The Pre-War event that you are referring to took place months before the war in the Rann for which both nations are responsible according to credible Pakistani, Indian and neutral sources. You'd be surprised to know that there is mention of the 65 war in Indian history books from the Rann to Op Gibraltar right until the ceasefire and unlike in Pakistan where most are ignorant of the infamous Op. Gibraltar and the long term effects of this war to Pakistan. Idleguy 04:46, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

The events i was talking about were India's "Unprovoked agression,pure and simple" on Rann of Kutch border.This samll army was ejected from this area.In aftermath of this event Indria Ghandi, announced: "India will respond at a time and place of her own choosing".The next response was In july 1965 in Northern areas along the 1948 cease-fire line where Indians conducted a surprise "surgical operation".The Pakistan responed in haste with Infiltraion of commandos this was only done to divert the Indians from Chamb area athough operation Gibra;ltor failed but diversion was succesful and Pakistan second operation area was a relative success.And Indria Ghandhi's place choosen was Lahore and time was early hours of 6 September 1965.It was at 1000 hours on 6th Sept. 1965 that war was declared by Ayub Khan:"this is war".So pl let know the problem with this all.User talk:Yousaf465


 * The problem seems to be that you (like many Pakistanis) have been fed on propaganda and judging by your amusing belief that it was "Indria Ghandi" who led India in the 1965 war, I feel it would be futile to argue with someone who has got his very basics in history completely wrong. Sorry. Idleguy 05:00, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe you should read some unbiased news sources like TIME magazine which suggests that it was Pakistan's plan to start problems in Kutch. "Some Western diplomats think Pakistani President Mohammed Ayub Khan planned the action before his trip to Washington" from May. 07, 1965 edition of TIME. Then again all the Pakistani educated elite know that it was Op Gibraltar that started the main war. Actually if you eliminate the Pakistani military propaganda, then it's quite clear that Pakistan erred on the wrong side by starting the war that had short term and long term negative consequences for Pakistan. Read this Pakistani article titled "Boomerang". A fact that even Pakistan's then Army Chief himself regretted in his book, not to forget Air Chief Marshal Nur Khan who were all critical of Bhutto's idea of infiltrating Kashmir.


 * Of course you can't expect dictators to let their people know the truth, which is sad because without introspection people will commit the same blunder again like they did in 1971. Consider this: both the full scale wars between India and Pakistan ('65 and '71) were fought when Pakistan was under military rule. There is value in democracy no matter how flawed and corrupt. Idleguy 12:19, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Date for lost PAF C-130
Howdy ! You wouldn't perhaps have a source for the exact date that Pakistani Air Force C-130B 24142, former USAF 62-4142, c.n. 3768, supplied under MAP, of 6 Sqn., crashed into a mountain in Pakistan, would you? All I have for it is the month and year - July 1966.

Thanx! Mark Sublette 22:36, 3 February 2007 (UTC)Mark SubletteMark Sublette 22:36, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

THANK YOU! You will have answered an open question - even Lars Olausson's Lockheed Hercules Production List - 1954-2007, published annually for 24 editions, does not list the date more exactly than just month and year.

Sub*

Mark Sublette 08:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)Mark SubletteMark Sublette 08:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I have several other PAF C-130 accidents listed, thus far. If you care to take a look at them, I would welcome any detail improvements that you might have.

Mark Sublette 08:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)Mark SubletteMark Sublette 08:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

There are about four PAF incidents at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_C-130_Hercules_crashes&action=edit

Sub*

Mark Sublette 08:46, 4 February 2007 (UTC)Mark SubletteMark Sublette 08:46, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

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MFI-17
The main section of the article is very short. I would look for it to be expanded. Common themes for aircraft articles include: If you look at Supermarine Spitfire you might get an idea of what a comprehensive article on an aircraft looks like! I'm not sure as much can be said about this mode, but I'm sure there is more to say than is present at the moment. The Land 18:21, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Development of the aircraft (who designed it, what the specification was, any competing models, anything else of note)
 * Operational use: when introduced, which squadrons, famous pilots, any media coverage, comparisons with similar types, any controversy, any records set, any non-standard uses (eg for this model aerobatics)
 * Development: any in-service modifications, updated versions

Aircraft caption
Aircraft arwe lost in every war, over every country. None of the other aircraft photos in the article have a similar caption indictaing that such an aaircrft was lost in a certain battle. Isarig 18:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Airblue/JetBlue Notations
It's only fair if a redirect be placed on Airblue's page, that one be placed on JetBlue's page, and I apologize for not doing that in the beginning. Neo16287 18:07, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Wp Pakistan
I was aware of your good faith edit but the entire template had got messed up. Right now I am a little busy. I will revert the template to your version and see what had gone worng and will try to fix it later some time today. Thank you very much for your efforts and concern. Your contributions are highly appreciated. Szhaider 19:46, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Zora hails from the western US
Yousaf, I was born in Nevada, raised in Oregon, and live in Honolulu. I've never even been to India -- though I'd love to visit. Being a Lucknowi -- I wish. That's such a cultured city.

I picked my username because that was the name I used in online roleplaying games, where I always played a dark-skinned female. Just to show all those obnoxious white teenage PKs (PlayerKillers). The name comes from Zora Neale Hurston. BTW, I'm white. Not pasty white, because I live in a sunny place, but still ... Zora 02:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

User talk archives help
would you pl help me with backing up my user talk.User talk:Yousaf465


 * See How to archive a talk page. // Liftarn

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Pakistan project template
Can I ask you what are you trying to do with this template? Is there any example of another template which you might be trying to follow? I have quite a bit experience in complex Wiki-syntax. May be I can help if you let me know about your target. In this way it would be easier to find errors in your code. Thank you! Szhaider 03:53, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:Pakistan project templates.
You really didn't need to try and change the template.It was fine the way it was.Anyways,I won't be able to help that soon since I've only started reading up on re-organizing templates,but I'll get to it as soon as I have an idea.

So you're pilot.Nice:-)

I'm pursuing a career as a pilot myself.I have flown the cessna two-seater skyhawk.I was hoping to get my private pilots liscence(PPL) by the summer,but I figured since I have to finish high school this year and apply for uni,I thought I should dedicate next year and get my full 40 hours and earn my liscense.Anyways nice talking to you.--Nadirali نادرالی

You could have created another template.This one was fine the way it was.Anyways I'll deal with fixing it up maybe tommorrow.It's a bit late tonight.

About the Mushak,I'm trying to figure out if it's parts were imported from Sweden or is it a Pakistani prototype of the Swedish MF17.Regards.--Nadirali نادرالی

Okay the template is back to normal.I think you should leave it.If you want to make a template,then just create another one and I'll see if I can help you.Regards.--Nadirali نادرالی

Template:WP Pakistan
Please see Template:WP Pakistan and let me know your opinion about it. Szhaider 21:29, 18 February 2007 (UTC)