User talk:Yulia Romero/Archive 3

thanks
I didn't think you would mind me stealing it, if you want you can take revenge and steal the Блок Юлії one that I made :) Starzaz (talk) 17:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for late answer. I can't steal the Блок Юлії userbox, since I can't vote for it :(, I tell all my friends here (in Holland) about Юлю I'm afraid if I started to talk about her party the think I'm crazy! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Hey, thanks. If you want to, that article needs help being expanded. I remember you editing the tina karol article. Have you heard the vovazilvova vs. tina karol pupsik song? Its great. Thanks again. Ostap 21:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Tak the vovazilvova vs. tina I like :) Is it only on youtube ore also on cd somewhere? I'll see what I can do about the article after my exam tomorrow. But my knowledge about Ukraine is still limited (I'm from Holland) so don't expect miracles.... I started to learn Ukrainian so mabey later I can help more.... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:36, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Kyiv?
Hello,

There is currently a discussion (survey, actually) at Kyiv whether the name should be changed to Kyiv. Please join. Thanks, Horlo (talk) 08:40, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for finishing my job at Template:Politics of Ukraine your version looks (even better) then mine! Razom Nas Bahato! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:48, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, glad you liked what I've done to it. :-) — Alex Khristov 23:50, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

No gas leaks any more
I agree I think the gas crisis should be withheld for the time being == Thanks. I have a Yulia Tymoshenko scarf given to me when I attended her very very very long speech during the 2006 election campiagn. I was going to burn it BUT I would be pleased to forward to you.Kurtdaydo (talk) 23:42, 5 March 2008 (UTC).

I would love to get it from you :). But don't know where you life. I life in the netherlands (surprised? :) ), so it could be quite expensive for you to send it to western europe... (I did get a Kyiv calender from a vriend in Kyiv so the Ukraine mail does work properly :). I will probabley go to Ukraine on summer holiday (but I dont know if I go to your town, I don't even know in what town you life....) I'm very curious where you life anyhowe :)   Mariah-Yulia (talk) 15:57, 6 March 2008 (UTC).

Re:Tina Karol
Hi Mariah-Yulia! Thanks for your comments. I got kind of busy at the Ukrainian Wiki, that's why I didn't answer earlier. Well, I don't live in Ukraine either (haven't for quite a few years...) and I am not really an expert at Ukrainian music, especially pop - Ruslana, Okean Elzy & VV are the only ones I know well. I edited those articles because first of all I want to help make articles on Ukraine-related subjects more comprehensive, especially those which are more or less known to the Western world (that is, folks may search for them). I'll be sure to find out more about Tina Karol and her studies! Also, I think that the article on Ruslana needs to be improved. (I remember someone posted there stuff about her that I wrote, actually translated from Ukr, especially for a fan site where it was later published. It was really funny to find it later in the Wiki article! But the article was considerably reduced since then because it came out too large...) Anyway, I'll try to do my best, and feel free to contact me if you need translation from Ukr or so. And may I add, your user page is awesome ;) Cheers! --Betty kerner (talk) 23:00, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello Betty! Thanks for your answer! Your reasons for editing about Ukrainian subjects is the same as mine :) Mabey it would be a good idea to create a wikipage called: Ruslana discography (more pages like that excist (see: New Order discography. I live and was born in the netherlands and have never heard of Okean Elzy & VV......


 * You know little about Ukraine. They are one of the most famous groups in Ukraine.  I have had the pleasure of meeting them twice.  Once in Ylata and once in Lvov Kurtdaydo (talk) 01:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

If you want I can insert the these colours in your user page, basicly I just copied my layout from other Wikipedians so feel free to copy my! Thanks for the compliment! And your help, I'm trying to learn Ukrainian but progres is slow......... PS it's suprising I always get so wel along with Ukrainian woman. I'm a man and I am glad there are some woman now editing on Ukrainian subject, as far as I know you are the only one.... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:28, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey Mariah-Yulia, how are you? Sorry, I have been away for so long and didn't do anything for the Project Ukraine. The main reason is that I figured that English wiki alreasy has loads of high quality articles and contributors... which I wouldn't say about the Ukrainian Wiki. So I decided to concentrate on working on it instead. We just passed the 100k+ articles mark, by the way :) But there are loads of stubs, it all deperately needs improvement. Have you heard the news about NATO & Ukraine & Georgia? I'm a bit confused. today so many Russians vandalized Ukr Wikipedia, ha ha, they were angry, and so nasty, seems like the dicision about Ukraine and NATO pissed them off since they took all that trouble writing so much crap & screwing up pages. Anyway, I'll be sure to get back & participate in the project as much as I can! Contact me any time at all! Cheers! P.S. I was surprised that you're a man - first, this nickname, (even tho I know these are the names of your favorite women), and also you seemed too passionate, more like a woman than a guy LOL! Okay, it's not a personal forum so I should stop until they put me down. Just a question: are you familiar with Fofudja? If you spoke Russian/Ukrainian you'd get a kick of it!--Betty kerner (talk) 00:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry for late reaction, I've been on a short wikibreak... I would like to get to know you better :). Can we exchange e-mails or MSN? (See head of this talkpage)


 * Hallo Mariah-Yulia! For some reasons I can't email you - this email function don't work =/ I don't know what's wrong with it. they send me a link to activate this function, but it doesn't work. And I don't have MSN... maybe there are any other options? By the way, it seems like Tina Karol is indeed still attenting the university, I'll be sure to finally find sources... Been busy at Ukr wiki, got involved in disputes :) --Betty kerner (talk) 18:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks a lot. BTW, there is also a Ukrainian  Order of St. Nicholas. I feel guilty that you beat me in awarding today. I was about to post an award to you. Now I will have to wait a little :). For now, just accept my thanks for your enthusiasm and dedication. --Irpen 23:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Your welcome! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:13, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your proposal. I have no problem with your being "too Orange" or too anything. I try to be moderate but this is a matter of personal choice. If I may, I would like to mention another part, of your self-description. You say you are "too bold". Not really. I think you just may be a little to passionate :)

If I remember correctly, our first encounter was the Sikorsky article. Your contributions are greatly appreciated. If I may give you an advice, please think a little about the "too passionate" part.

As for your proposal, while I appreciate her for a lot of things, it is best (IMO) to keep the userspace out of politics (including both Vityas as well.) There are even policies about this somewhere out there (not strictly enforced, though.) People use their userspace to campaign for a lot of things, from the clean environment to partitioning the particular countries. At one time I almost decided to put an Orange Ribbon on my page but in the end, I thought to better keep it clear. There are ways to campaign for change and the Wikipedia should not be one of them. Wikipedia, should be reflective rather than promotive. --Irpen 05:08, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I will keep your thoughts in mind. I decided not to use the award your DDima's advice and the reaction from that dude from Gorki on your userpage (stil think it was none of his bussiness, I don't tell the people of Project Russia what kind of awards they should give, if the want to start giving Putin awards that's fine with me...) gave me the impression that I was understood wrongly. The award was first mend as a joke! Because I have learned to be carefyull with humor I decided to ask advice first.... Wikipedia is a great tool to learn to work toghetter! I try to learn that from it! So thanks for the lessons! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 16:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the award!
Many thanks for the award! I will continue to work on Ukrainian subjects wherever I have knowledge and illustrations! The latter I think is important to any article! Narking (talk) 18:26, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations
Just wanted to congratulate you on your magnificent insight and power to predict things. You are prophetically right, generally I don't listen to people who off-hand think of me as evil. Never mind me, I don't listen anyway... --Hillock65 (talk) 02:37, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Євпаторія = Yevpatoriya
Дуже, дуже дякую за допомогу! But how long will I have to wait until I may be allowed to do the 'right' thing, that is moving this article with a correct title? ✓ Kanġi Oĥanko (talk) 23:31, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well you have some good arguments to proof that google is misleading! So I don't think there is not much risk here. Usually problems with renaming cities on Wikipedia occur when Russian names are replaced by Ukrainian (see Talk:Kiev ore Talk:Kharkiv) Evpatoria doesn't seem to have that problem.... The main argument not renaming Kiev to Kyiv is always that foreigners have used the name Kiev for so long. Once again Evpatoria doesn't seem to have that problem cause it's not that famous :). I don't know what is best to do on Wikipedia (I made some mistakes here too). User:Irpen gave me the best advice how to edit on wikipedia: Dont be too passionate (see:User talk:Mariah-Yulia). Maybe it's best to wait until a week passes since your request (to rename the article)! Then nobody can accuse you of bad faith or being reckless. Дякую i до побачення. P.S. My Ukrainian is awful (I'm from the netherlands) I'm thinking of going to Kyiv this summer to learn the language! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 00:34, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

racism and discriminiation
Here is some good links under the "Human Rights" section for racism and discrimination:. The links are for Amnesty International Report and Freedom House and so on. Not sure if you have seen them already, but they are pretty interesting. The other links look pretty good too. Enjoy! Ostap 17:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that looks interesting! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Great work with that article by the way. Ostap 23:28, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, for obvious reasons I don't want to see BYuT linked with a neo-nazi group. But UNA-UNSO website is pretty shady...... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

photos
I agree that either Tymoshenko or Yushchenko should be put in the image. You might want to restart the discussion to see what others think... Ostap 00:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I restarted the discusion where it stoped the last time. From an international point of view, who is more known worldwide Tymoshenko or Yushchenko? It used to be Yushchenko, but I'm not sure now, besides with Yulia Tymoshenko there would be two woman in the picture. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 00:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * PS User:M.V.E.i. who "suported" Nestor Makhno the most is blocked for a year.

FYI
Russia-Ukraine relations was recently created. It is just waiting for you. Ostap 03:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the warning, but I don't have much time now... I'm doing a project with my bff from Yevpatoria (you see it can work :) ) and I don't want to ruin that by investing to much time in a possible edit war. Article looks fine, but tells nothing.... I hope Lvov instead of Lviv was an accident.... I prefer to call Kharkov by it's Russian name cause the inhabitants of Kharkov use that name too. Will try to update page when I have time again. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 18:41, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Kyiv elections
I was thinking, do we even need to keep the "polls" section? We have the results so the polls are pretty much meaningless, right? Ostap 06:30, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Second that. Thanks a lot Mariah-Yulia for taking the time to update the article, I totally forgot about it.. (who wouldn't with those results, eh?) Actually, I believe the whole article could be moved to Kiev local election, 2008 so as to give the election to the Kiev City Council fair coverage like the elections for the mayor.. Thanks again, —dima/talk/ 21:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ostap! Thanks DDima! I think we should keep the polls cause there so different then the results (probable has to do something cause the low turnout...) I could do more with the article but with those results.... I lack the will..... moveing it to Kiev local election, 2008 is a good idea! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:49, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Это как понять?
I did not quite understood your message that you put on my talk page. Football, R-U relations, Drevnerusskiy yazyk. Did my talk page just became a target to let off steam or was there any clear meaning to that comment? I am aware that R-U relations article which I added info to is unsourced, and the whole point of wikipedia is that you make an article, jot down some loose ideas, someone else can then take them and build on them, someone else can then again improve that make it conscise etc. I never indtended the version that is written there to be final and don't expect it to be. If someone bitches their frustration of it being a POV then I interpret that only as a compensating reflex for their INABILITY to write articles! And my comment on Old Russian is exactly that, when in 48 hours you have a swarm of editors who don't even bother to read and investigate the arguments voice their opinion as strict oppose. I hope you are aware this does not imply to DDima or Riurik or many other editors with whom we have great mutual respect, but to a certain group of individuals whose reverts and talk page rants outnumber their article space edits exponentially. These stubborn people are never going to accept that they are wrong even if the original disputed parties have long given up, I can give you a hundred examples of their activities. Just for refrence have a look at Talk:Zaporozhian Cossacks and how more time was spent disputing the destruction than the actual article which is still unfinished and falls short of wiki standards. PS:Two years ago I did not feel sorry for Switzerland missing all their penalties, nor did I go around other people's talk pages doing that because that is low. --Kuban Cossack 08:14, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I was afraid you became one of These stubborn people you discribe above (and OK I was also letting of steam...) it's nice to know that is not the case! I agree with all your comments. Sorry about my footbal hooligan actions, that was childisch. I would wish Russian theam the best of luck but since there playing against the team of my country... I wan't to celibrate like in 1988 again... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 15:09, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

gogol
You remember asking this? His books are very good. Here is our list: Template:Works by Gogol. If you only read one of his works ever, make it Taras Bulba. I recommend reading his collections of heavily Ukrainian influenced short stories: Evenings on a Farm Near Dikanka and Mirgorod (Gogol). Regards. Ostap 22:31, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I did remember and User:Narking has recommended his books as well. I will surley try it now. Thanks for the tips. I'm now bussy planning a trip to Kyiv (to learn Ukrainian) in August so Gogol has to wait a while do Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:49, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

re:Russia – Ukraine relations
I really don't know how to get that article going. It seems it will always be a magnet for imperialist POV pushers. Most likely they will all claim I am a POV pusher also. I propose you take charge and develope it as you think would be best. Ostap 02:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I did the best I could :) Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:00, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Nice idea
"Varius Russians" instead of Russians really looks better. Thank you girl. Log in, log out (talk) 19:07, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, bit unexpected this, Russians keep amazing me :) Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:21, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait for the World Cup 2010 in South Africa :-P Log in, log out (talk) 19:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hopefully there not gonna be in the same group as Ukraine there... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't want them to met anywhere but the finals. It annoyes me Ukraine and Belarus recived a hard group in the qualification. With England and Croatia. Well, England one of them might pass, and i hope someone of them will, but Croatia will be hard, and i also like Croatia seens they helped us to climb to the Euro (to said we couldn't bring them against spain). My father said that if Russia wants to win the World Cup they need Plushenko skating around the football field (hey? He brought Bilan a victory. He won it even thought Bilan was there!). Log in, log out (talk) 19:42, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I changed the formulation on Korolev. If you want check it and change if you dont like. Log in, log out (talk) 19:47, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks better now :), ofcourse Plushenko would be a great help to the Russian team cause he has a Ukrainian name :) I'm afraid England and Croatia are to strong teams for the Ukrainian team... Luckly there is still 2012 Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * England? Strong? Their league is strong thanks to players from abroad. Their natinal team is based on the only truely English team in England, West Ham, and those players today, lets just say West Ham are not in their peak today. If Ukraine wont get scared and confuse the English team with it's league, they take them. Log in, log out (talk) 20:42, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

After two hours he makes a hole in my brain, i took this text as top serious. I can see you avoide entering the argument, smurt move. This guy and what he started their is the first serious chaos i have seen on Wikipedia. I never thought such users really exist, i thought the're just a story to scare little kids who say "i want to become a wikipedian!" after there mom asks them "so darling, what do you want to be when you grow up?". I have seen it all now. Log in, log out (talk) 22:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Mabey you can use this experience in real life :), although watch out sometimes people who look like a vandalist can make articles better (I mean better balanced), as I found out at the Ukrainian parliamentary election, 2007 article. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:43, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, theres even a barnstar for such users, for adding flavour or something like that. The problem is he provocates discussion on topics which are nor in the article, and not candidates to enter there. He just raises propoganda. Log in, log out (talk) 22:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Warning
Mariah-Yulia, you have every right to believe whatever you want and support whoever you want, but your disparaging remarks in my address were uncivil and uncalled for. Please stay away from personal characterizations and focus on content instead. In short, I am disappointed in you, I thought better of you than that. --Hillock65 (talk) 23:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I offended you. You have created some really interesting articles but I do think you are bit too suspicious when it comes too Russian editors, I belief a more friendly approach towards them leads to better results (see above and below) and Talk:Ukrainians in Russia. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:03, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar
Thanks/ДЯКУЮ! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:07, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Why the Kremlin Is So Scared of Ukraine
If you haven't already read it, be sure to read this interesting article. And it's written by a Russian! Narking (talk) 21:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, the article makes a lot of sence! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:19, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it sure does. And the fact that it's a Russian who has written it gives a little hope to Russia! Narking (talk) 21:56, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, never been to Russia so can't tell.... but if Russians believe TV channels like Russia Today (I got the idea that the almost never say all the facts) I have no hope... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:05, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree there isn't much hope, but there are still some fairly free media such as Echo of Moscow with great journalists like Yulia Latynina. She also writes in Novaya Gazeta and The Moscow Times which also are good to read if you want to know what's going on in Russia. And you also have the web news such as the two Gazetas and . But of course most Russians get their news from state controlled TV which makes them to hate Ukraine and Georgia (plan to go there this summer by the way!). Narking (talk) 22:31, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry for intervening here, but do not trust Latynina. She is Gapon. See this letter by Boris Kuznetsov. Biophys (talk) 02:31, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've read that too. It's always hard to know for sure who journalists work for. Narking (talk) 07:08, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way wasn't George Gapon Ukrainian? Doesn't say so in his article though. Narking (talk) 07:30, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the info people! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 01:00, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It does not make any sense ("Ukraine as danger of successfull example for Russia" idea is silly at times when Russian cities are teeming with Ukrainian illegals willing to take any dirty and heavy job Russians are unwilling to do, if anything Orange Ukraine is a great booster for Putinists, as in "follow Western puppets like Kasparov and you'll live as Ukrainians") and plays heavily on the racist undertones of Russian and Western fears of the Yellow Scare (Yellow Peril swallowing Siberia whole), but the fact it exists speak volumes of the media freedom in Russia. Try to get Russophilic article equally heavy ladden with propaganda cliches published in the Economist and you'll understand what I mean. 206.186.8.130 (talk) 15:27, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

It is a Column, Columns don't need to be fact checked. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 00:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Response
The BBC article specifically says TV media is mostly owned/controlled by the Kremlin. Mass media comprises of more than just TV, there are numerous newspapers, websites etc.. That are independently owned (in fact the vast majority of media in Russia has no ties to the Kremlin). Thus, your change was quite misleading. This article is not just about TV media. Please also refrain from removing factual information from the article per WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Is there some reason you would want to prevent readers from knowing that most non-TV media in Russia is independent? Or was it mainly the quote you were referring to? Assuming that's the case, I tried to salvage the statistics, and incorporate the BBC article into the lead as well. Tell me what you think.

(Also, I don't appreciate you accusing me of writing propaganda. I wasn't the one who wrote that intro in the first place.) Krawndawg (talk) 02:04, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for your nice words and the reward! I hope to work together with you in the future. Warm regards, Biophys (talk) 02:46, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Your welcome! I'll keep an eye on Web Brigades in case the KGB tries to delete it again... and again... etc. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 01:10, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Then you should be aware of Tag teams, see also here and here. Keep in mind that some people like bad jokes (see this red userbox or this red userbox, for example). Look how Ostap tried to help me out, and what had happened. But perhaps you already know that. Certainly, I would highly appreciate your help, and you are welcome to ask any questions. Thanks again!Biophys (talk) 04:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused what your warning me for :-|, I (seem to) have quite good relations with Russian editors. I think staying polite is a key to good relation. I will help where I can but I'm no expert on Russia and a lot more interested in Ukraina then in Russia. I was more ironic then serious with my KGB remark btw. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:29, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No, I did not warn you about anything, just pointed out something you possibly do not know. Sorry, I did not understand your irony, since I consider this subject to be important. Best regards,Biophys (talk) 17:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey Biophys you know all about tag teaming don't ya! Hows your old edit-war pal Pieter doing anyways? Haven't seen him around in a while. Maybe the KGB got him...oh who am I kidding, you guys are obviously working for the CIA to destroy Russia's reputation and are well protected. ;) LokiiT (talk) 03:16, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The sad thing is that this user probably believes what he is saying :( Ostap 21:09, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

No, I'm not working for the CIA, I'm editing to glorify Yulia Tymoshenko and Ivan Mazepa! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:19, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Edit summaries
Please use the edit summary to just summarize the edit, not to make comments about other editors. Regards. —Michael Z. 2008-07-25 21:08 z 
 * Sorry about that, I was trying to be ironic... I do think that whoever removed Orange Revolution was wrong Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:15, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Removal of comment from Talk:2008 South Ossetia War
Please see Wikipedia's talk page policy. Whether the anonymous user's opinion made sense or not (which I state no opinion on) was not the point. Talk pages are for improving the attached articles; other discussion will be removed. -- SCZenz (talk) 06:10, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

CIS
It has been nice working with you :) Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:05, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, likewise. :-) But I have a feeling we might see some edit wars later on. — Alex Khristov 22:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Controversy over Abkhazian and South Ossetian independence
I proposed speedy deletion a few days ago, but took it down when someone told me they would balance it. It has seen no change. I agree with you that it needs to be deleted. I cannot see what the point of the article is. If you want, try to go through WP:Articles for deletion. Let me know if you do. Ostap 02:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well if it becomes a place to discuss scholarly analysis and all politicians are removed in my opinion it can stay, I wouldn't find it an interesting article though.... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:37, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Mariah, such edit summaries may get you in trouble per WP:CIV. Sorry, Biophys (talk) 21:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I lost my temper with I'm not happy with, but at least it started a real discussion about the way the article should move too. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:26, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, no problem. Just keep in mind that someone can use this against you. BTW, what part of Ukraine are you living in? Eastern part may soon be annexed by Russia. At least, that was claimed by this man, and he claimed long time ago that the first part of the plan was partition of Georgia.Biophys (talk) 23:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Well I live in Holland actually :), I don't think that Ukraine is a "next target" since the situation there is complitly different then in Georgia, Ukrainization is not as worse as getting your town bombed... I don't think Russia would send in tanks because of Ukrainization. Besides the Georgia invasion isn't doing the Russian economy harm, I think oligarch's have more say in the Kremlin then that man. For the sake of Russia I hope I'm right... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the Russian-Georgian war caused enormous damage to Russian economy. Russian stock market is down may be 40% (I do not remember exact number). Investors are running. More losses are ahead. If the Russian leadership was simply a "kleptocracy", they wound never started this war - who wants to loose billions from his own pocket? No, the entire thing was mostly ideological - that is what makes it so dangerous. This politics is not driven by oligarchs (they are in a total servitude and fear after the imprisonment of Khodorkovsky). The ruling gang consists of former KGB/FSB/SVR officers who listen nationalists like Dugin. The idea is to grab as much Russian-speaking territory as West will allow them, and West will allow a lot - the entire Eastern Ukraine, not just the Crimea - according to the plan disclosed by Dugin.Biophys (talk) 02:52, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * They do not have to send tanks to Crimea. In practice, they have occupied already Sevastopol. All they need is an internal revolt by their people.Biophys (talk) 02:55, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you think that Russian billionaires actually own their billions? No, Abramovich only holds money for others, like Putin, he is basically a "kabanchik" with money if you know what it means.Biophys (talk) 03:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry I don't agree. I appreciate your input on wikipedia but I don't believe your theories. I may be naive but I know Krim and Donbass will be Ukrainian forever! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:09, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Wishful thinking. Unfortunately, these are not my theories but something published by real experts. I can propose original theories only within my area of expertise, and that is not politics or history.Biophys (talk) 21:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Just stop it man you sound ridiculous. By the way, stock markets don't reflect the health of an economy, especially in emerging economies like Russia. China's market for example has gone down by about 60% this year. They are still booming are they not? IMO you should take your amateur analysis of the Russian neo-Soviet Empire's plans for global domination to a personal website, blog, journal etc.. because it's becoming ever more clear that you're trying to push your fringe views on the wikipedia community by force. That's not what wikipedia is about bro. LokiiT (talk) 00:19, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah and I forgot to mention, once Queen Yulia is elected president all these fabricated tensions between Russia and Ukraine will evaporate. The prospect of invasion or annexation is laughable and plain stupid. I use the word fabricated because Yushchenko has something like a 6% public approval rating right now, his rampant Russophobia obviously isn't in the best interest of his country nor does it represent public opinion. Tymoshenko seems a lot more level headed and logical regarding relations with Russia, which is probably why so many more people support her. LokiiT (talk) 00:32, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I guess I have to intervene here also. It's sure not only Biophys theories. It's true it's not only the Russian economy that has been going down lately but it's a fact that investors have started to hesitate before investing in Russia now. (Most Russians have known that for years.) I quote: "Since the war with Georgia, people have stopped thinking about Russia as a normal place to invest". And the war sure wasn't something that Russian business wanted, it's all political. Secondly it's strange to hear how much Russian state media now embrace Yulia, the same Yulia they were throwing all possible dirt upon just a year ago! I guess they hope Russians have bad memory. The same media is also telling the Russian people that the whole world is supporting Russia now and that the USA is isolated in its support of Georgia! A good rule from my Russian friends is that you should read the Russian news and then rotate it 180 degrees and then you will get the thruth. Närking (talk) 17:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I keep a close watch on Russian media (The English stuff, both state run and independent), and most of what you're saying just sounds made up. It's no more propaganda than the news on CNN or Fox, both of which I watch daily (and yes, they're all biased in certain viewpoints, but they don't report fake news). As for the Russian economy, how could you even know if it's been going downhill when they haven't released Q2 figures yet? All indicators point to a slight slowdown in-line with every other emerging economy due to the American credit crisis, nothing out of the ordinary though, nothing even close to what countries like America, Britain and Japan are seeing. And I'll repeat myself, stock markets don't reflect the health of the economy. The Russian stock market has been slumping since June, well before the Georgia war. LokiiT (talk) 20:24, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't talking only about the stock market. Foreign investments has been estimated to have fallen by $20 billion in August. And why do you think Russians prefer to invest abroad? And why don't they invest in "friendly" countries like North Korea or Nicaragua but in horrible western countries? And secondly I wasn't talking about Russian state media for the west like Russia Today but the ones most Russians watch, like Pervy Kanal. Närking (talk) 20:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Narking, you don't know what you're talking about. The main reason that capital has left is the same reason the stock market is down, which started in June, and has been exacerbated by falling oil prices and the Georgia conflict. As LokiiT said, the stock market doesn't matter much in emerging economies, the macro-fundementals are strong and Russia is still set for $25-40 billion net capital inflow (not outflow) this year and is still on target for 7-8% GDP growth this year.

"The same media is also telling the Russian people that the whole world is supporting Russia now and that the USA is isolated in its support of Georgia!" - Hardly. Here are some quotes from state-owned Russian media, let alone independent media.

"Western nations have strongly criticized Russia for its "disproportionate" response to Georgia's attack and the recognition of Georgia's breakaway provinces. NATO-Russia cooperation has also been frozen."

"Georgia has received the support of most Western powers in the ongoing standoff with Russia, which officially recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent countries on Tuesday."

"Western leaders have condemned Russia's decision, which has sparked fears of a new Cold War. U.S. President George W. Bush said in a statement on Tuesday: Russia's action only exacerbates tensions and complicates diplomatic negotiations." 

"Western leaders blast Russia for recognizing Abkhazia, S.Ossetia" "Britain, the United States, Germany, France and Italy expressed their support for Georgia's sovereignty. The British Foreign Office said Russia's decision did not contribute to a peaceful settlement in the Caucasus and was out of line with its international commitments. "We reject this categorically and reaffirm Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity," a Foreign Office spokesperson said. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Russia's recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia "regrettable." Germany's Angela Merkel said Russia's decision was "totally unacceptable," adding that she hoped the European Union would say the same. France also called the decision "regrettable," while Italy said the move was illegal.Georgia called the decision to recognize the republics "an unconcealed annexation" and said its ties with Russia would now "stall for a long time, if not for good." 

"EU condemns Russian actions in Georgia"

"West speaks out against breakaway republics' independence"

"Human Rights Watch has also said that Russia used the widely condemned weapons in several places during the conflict."

etc, etc. You should look into matters before making sweeping statements that try to sound good, you just embarrass yourself with your ignorance. Do you know Russian? No, you don't. "Pervy Kanal" and others show exactly the same things, and the RIA Novosti articles are just english translations of the Russian articles.

The only people who are being brainwashed is Georgians, whose government has banned all Russian media (tv, internet) - probably because they didn't want Georgians to see the death and destruction at Tskinvali that their country had wrecked upon it, that they were showing. They probably don't even know that it was their government that started the war. Narking, do you have any sympathy for the Ossetian civilians who were killed by Georgia's invasion or do you just have sympathy for Georgians?--Miyokan (talk) 02:12, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know what you are after. But it's clear that the one that should look into matters a little better before making sweeping statements about Georgians and Russians is not the undersigned.
 * And who has said anything bad about Ossetians here? Of course I think they should have their rights just like the Georgians or the Chechnyans. And if you think Georgians are brainwashed you have listened too much to Russian news. I was there during the war and yes, it's true they blocked Russian media, which I don't think was needed. But they did continue showing lots of Russian music and movies on TV as well as Russian and other international news on the Georgian news. Georgians treated Russians very well although they were at war with Russia at the time. They could understand the difference between the Russian government and the people. I'm not so sure that will happen in Russia.
 * And yes, I'm not Russian and I don't speak that much Russian either but I have been there several times (even to Nizhny Novgorod which is a nice city). But I have also Russian friends living in Russia that clearly can see the changes during Putin. You gave examples from Russia Today but that is not what Russians are watching. And anyway Russia Today surely is very biased, and made for the west (although I wonder who really watch it). Watching Russian state tv news on Pervy Kanal is something different. You should also be aware of the way news are presented, not just the words. But of course there still are other media in Russia that give other independent news. But most people don't read or listen to such news.
 * And you have to admit it's strange how Russian state media now embrace the Orange queen Yulia.
 * And about the Russian economy. Why don't Russians invest in countries like North Korea or even in their own country? Never asked yourself why? And I'm not just talking about the recent events. Närking (talk) 08:03, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Most of those quotes I provided were from the state agency RIA Novosti, which is Russia and Russian-language based. I already said that "Pervy Kanal" and others showed exactly the same things that I mentioned, of course they've been saying how all these countries have condemned Russia and are not going to recognise A & SO, think before you write. Your ""The same media is also telling the Russian people that the whole world is supporting Russia now and that the USA is isolated in its support of Georgia!" statement just reeks of ignorance. All countries' media is biased, you are deluded if you think that Georgia's (censored) media was/is objective. I also watch CNN and BBC (watching Saakashvili's smug mug on them 24/7 was fun), and read the western news.

"But they did continue showing lots of Russian music and movies on TV." - what does showing Russian music and movies have to do with anything? We are talking about politics, not culture. This is seriously a week attempt to try to justify Georgia's censorship. The fact is that Russia has not blocked Georgian media, while Georgia has banned Russian media, no matter how you try to spin it or try to detract from it.

"And you have to admit it's strange how Russian state media now embrace the Orange queen Yulia." - No, they don't, if anything they see her as the lesser of two evils (if the choice is between Yushchenko and Tymoshenko).

"And about the Russian economy. Why don't Russians invest in countries like North Korea or even in their own country? Never asked yourself why? And I'm not just talking about the recent events" - what are you talking about?

"Georgians treated Russians very well although they were at war with Russia at the time. They could understand the difference between the Russian government and the people. I'm not so sure that will happen in Russia." - What "Russians in Georgia" are you talking about, they (along with many other minorities, which is why Georgia is ranked 153 out of 173 countries by net migration rate) all left Georgia because they were discriminated against since the "Georgia for Georgians" era began, they only make up 1.5% of the population now. Georgians on the other hand, flock to Russia, 2 million here last I heard. Of the remaining Russians in Georgia, I have read several reports of Russians who were living in Georgia that said that they were discriminated against during the war and that some left because of it, although I agree, this is probably the exception rather than the rule. As for Georgians in Russia, I haven't heard of any reprisal attacks against Georgians in Russia, have you? Russia and its leaders have repeatedly said (despite Georgia being the initial aggressor and killing their peacekeepers (and citizens)), "Russia has genuine friendly sentiments and affection for the Georgian people". As for Georgia's leaders, Saakashvili frequently called Russians "barbarians" who "despise everything new, everything modern, everything European, everything civilised". --Miyokan (talk) 12:27, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I can see that you have not been to Georgia. Whatever you might think there still are many Russians living in Tbilisi, many more than in South Ossetia. So in fact Russia was bombing the city where most Russians were living. Strange way to protect its people. But I was mainly referering to the many Russian citizens visiting Georgia, both ethnic Russians and ethnic Georgians. Georgians were very helpfull which can't be said about the Russian embassy in Tbilisi who you would think should help its citizens.
 * I haven't heard lately about any repressions against Georgians in Russia but we all know what happened just a year ago. I personally know people who were stopped and harrassed on a train just because they had a Georgian name.
 * I don't know where you have seen I have defended Saakashvili's language. I talked to many Georgians who were critical about him, it's normal in a democratic country. I also talked to refugees from South Ossetia, have you? And no one has said that Georgian media isn't biased. You always paint everything in black and white. Probably because of your agenda here, and that's probably also why you suddenly ended up on this talk page. Närking (talk) 15:35, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Ukrainian politics
I'm not. But I know NPOV when I see it. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 23:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually I can't see the difference between the 2 edits anymore. But OK, I really like Yulia (and most Ukrainian woman!) so I should be careful (not glorify her here). I like Avril Lavigne too, I hope you like her too! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 00:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm - I think the problem might have been with your vocabulary, then, because I felt that your version was very POV *against* Yulia. The word "forthright" generally describes a positive trait, and is roughly synonymous with "honest", so by calling her version "less forthright", you were basically calling her less honest.  I assume that wasn't your intention.  As for Avril...well, not really my thing.  Plenty of Ukrainian women (and men, for that matter) in the part of Canada I come from, though. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 00:39, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've responded here -- Timberframe (talk) 09:32, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Image:Yulia Tymoshenko press conference.jpg
The image appears to have been copied from a non-free source without permission. I've checked the website and found no evidence that the content owner allows his material to be reused, in fact, down at the bottom, it says "Персональний сайт Юлії Тимошенко (C)" which means that the content is copyrighted and, hence, is ineligible for use on wikipedia. Also, you seem to use two contradictory copyright tags and. So, unless I've missed something, this image is liable to immideate deletion, cheers! Ban Ray  23:07, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Is it a good idea to e-mail Yulyu's website and ask for there permission? Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah you may try that, but you should note that a mere permission for wikipedia or wikimedia commons is not enough, they must actually release the photo under a free license (I'd recommend you try Creative Commons Share-Alike). You'll need to get them to send an email to the OTRS address as explained here. Ban  Ray  20:12, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Any progress with this? Ban  Ray  16:19, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately I'm rather real life busy at the moment and only got time to focus on latest political developments in Ukraine related articles. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:19, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've tagged it as missing author's permission, if you acquire one sometime in the future, just re-upload it. Sorry for any inconvinience caused. Ban  Ray  09:08, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Tranks
Thank you for awarding me ;-) ! Best wishes, Lulo.it (talk) 13:55, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Leonid Chernovetskyi Bloc
A tag has been placed on Leonid Chernovetskyi Bloc requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, "See also" section, book reference, category tag, template tag, interwiki link, rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Mister Senseless&trade; (Speak - Contributions) 20:50, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, a sandbox first would have been better......... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:24, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Move Request
Hi Mariah, I replied at the article talk page. Would you mind to reconsider or withdraw your request? Sorry, but I think you suggested a much bigger subject. Thank you. Biophys (talk) 01:31, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * привіт! Well I think the article is hard to find for now, that's why I suggested a move. Sorry for the late response. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:15, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Nuisense to us all
I rarely ask anyone to take a side in a dispute, but since you found yourself in the middle of one on UOC(MP) can you please put a few comments here. Thanks for your efforts there btw. --Kuban Cossack (По-балакаем?) 17:06, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * For the sake of a good laugh you are aware of this? --Kuban Cossack (По-балакаем?) 17:07, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I missed this. I liked Mariah's response (see external links) the most! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:57, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I have to collect my thoughts first before writing on the Administrators' noticeboard, so don't expect a quick replay. Strange thing is that I got the feeling that Hillock65's political idea's are more similar to mine then yours, yet we get along. I can see that not all Russians are like the Eurasian Youth Union, maybe he can not? Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:57, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear Yulia. Some people may find it surprising, but I don't take kindly to random accusations of POV-pushing and stalking directed at me. I am not seeing Kuban Cossack showing even the slightest hint of remorse, neither... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

No offence but he stopt editing (today and it's night now in Russia) about 2 hours before you got on the Administrators' noticeboard. I admit accusing you was wrong from his part. Now if you don't mind I will promote Yulia Tymoshenko some more on wikipedia :) -- Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:44, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I would also like to tell you that this was the first time I think you made an unproductive edit, we don't share the same interest but as far as I can tell you made some great contributions to Wikipedia, I just hope/wish/wanted this Hillock vs. Kuban struggle too be settled between them without it bringing more damage to other inter-wiki relations. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 00:03, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Portal:Ukraine/New article announcements
(You wrote) Hi! Can you please announce all the new articles you write about Ukrainian topics/topics related to Ukraine at the Portal:Ukraine/New article announcements! So other Wikipedians (from wikiproject Ukraine) can contribute to articles you wrote with their knowledge/photo's etc. Thanks in advance! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 01:15, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll see what I can do, but these are only stubs concerning mostly the history of Kresy. I'll make sure to add a Ukrainian history stub template next time. Thanks. --Poeticbent talk  02:30, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Must see
"Finita la comedia... For today..." :) very apt. Thanks! BTW, another new poll on UNIAN today, but incomplete data. -- Timberframe (talk) 16:52, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Olga Kurylenko
I saw you stole some pictures from my userpage, thanks I got the feeling we can get along :). Can you keep a look out at the Olga Kurylenko article, some non-acount editors try to make her French and Russian without giving any or bad references. Finally Ukraine got a nice poster board and then some bullies in the playground try to steal her and give her to there country. She clearly only mentions her Ukrainian heritage in her interviews. The Russians should finally learn Ukraine (and Georgia etc.) are not part of there country any more! People who speak Russian are Russian(?), why isn't Mozart German then? If those editors really want to do Olga a favour the should protest against the raising of Russian Gas prices in Ukraine instead of claiming only the good bits from Ukraine, I'm fat up with this ethnicity kind of thinking. Everybody from Ukraine is a Ukrainian!, people who look at ethnicity first are semi-Nazi's to me! -- Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:58, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Totally, I will be watching the page. There is a lot of stuff like that. We (Ukraine) have conceded a buch of stuff to Russia and Poland, including our history and religion. So now I am actually re-reading several histories of Ukraine and developing a theme through them. I can see you are quite active in Ukraine. I would love to be more active too, but don't know what I can do from here. Thanks! --Ivan2007 (talk) 17:26, 2 November 2008
 * Well I'm hoping they get used to it (eventually) that not the whole of Europe east of Vienna is ruled from the Kremlin any more... By the way on 25 April 2008 Riurik adviced me to Do try to use a published book or another reputable secondary source instead of internet news articles when I asked for advice about/how to write the (probably controversial) NATO-Ukraine relations article. I did so and he article did not became a battleground, so I think it was a good advice when you want to write or add to a probably controversial article. -- Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:52, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Be aware that there are some users who look totally reasonable (like User:Miyokan) who are nothing but a Point Of View Pusher and there are some users who look like Point Of View Pusher (like User:Kuban kazak) but who you can work with if you just have good WP:references. -- Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:31, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Kuban Kazak-Hillock65
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Kuban Kazak-Hillock65/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Kuban Kazak-Hillock65/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Tznkai (talk) 00:45, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

user page protection
I've protected your user page for a day. Let me, or any admin, know if you'd like it extended. --barneca (talk) 01:07, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Primary and secondary sources
The issue is not about choosing ancestries. Olga's mother identified herself as Russian in an interview. Interviews are primary sources and thus preferred over an article from which we cannot actually quote her. If you find other interviews with Olga's mother where she claims she's Belorussian, feel free to add that. However, until that happens, we're going to stick by her word and call her Russian, regardless of what her ancestry may be.--Life is like a box of chocolates (talk) 03:22, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well her mother may call herself Russian but her passport is from the state Ukraine. Nationality and ethnicity are two different things. Therefore her mother is a Ukrainian of Russian descent. Unless she hasn't got a Ukrainian passport but a Russian one (the interview doesn't clarify that, but since Olga calls herself Ukrainian it is very unlikely). Sorry I lost my temper but I'm getting annoyed when people mix up nationality and ethnicity, I always have the feeling it is one step away from calling parts of Ukraine as parts of Russia. My userpages states "For United Ukraine" in 2 different languages: I want a united Ukraine for all Ukrainians not a Ukraine for only ethnic Ukrainians. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 16:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

It like being born in Scotland and living in Canada, or being born in Australia of English decent. What are you???

Join me at Medzhybizh 17:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Ukrainian nationalism

 * Hi Mariah-Yulia.
 * Could you explain removal of the referenced information in the Ukrainian nationalism article? UPA is the clearest example of Ukrainian nationalism gone mad, and what you did is whitewashing of its history, which should be avoided. Your explanation that the article is not about UPA does not make sense, since this section is completely dedicated to UPA. Please restore the information, and do not change history. Murdering of Polish villages is directly linked to Ukrainian nationalism, as the Ukrainian nationalists are responsible for this. Would you dare to say that Holocaust is not liked to Nazism? Would it make sense? Tymek (talk) 20:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I did not remove information but simply rewrote it, the refs you placed are still there... UPA has it's own article, the point in having an article about Ukrainian nationalism is that it talks about Ukrainian nationalism. I will ad to the article a small reference about the Massacres of Poles in Volhynia, I think people can see for themselves that it was Ukrainian nationalism gone mad.

I am no expert on UPA but it is very unlikely all Ukrainian nationalist supported them and even if they did it is unlikely they all wanted Poles killed, just like it is very unlikely that all German nationalist where Nazi's. So German nationalist are not responsible for the Nazi crimes per-se. Please stop thinking in black and white and start to see the grey.

I have never been an UPA-fan so I think your criticism is a bit uncalled for, you likley will found out I am one of the more moderate nationalist on wikipedia (see my userboxes), your accusing tone of your response to me will probably not fare well whit the hardcore nationalist on wikipedia. That's not an accusation but a gesture of help. And now I'm fresh out of fancy words... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So, using your logic, we should completely clear the Nazis of all charges of mass murder of Jews, because we do not know if all Nazis supported it? The massacres were a direct continuation of policies of Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and its armed wing, and as such they should be mentioned (was there another Ukrainian nationalist organization in the early 1940s, which opposed the slaughter of Poles?)
 * And please forgive me if you think my message was uncivil. I am not accusing you of anything, I just do not like such situations. Greetings. Tymek (talk) 20:55, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm only opposed to a direct linking of all kinds of nationalism to violence... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sad fact is that Ukrainian nationalism is directly linked to violence, as the madmen of UPA did not only kill Poles. They mass-murdered also those Ukrainians who did not cooperate with them and who did not want to kill the Poles or those from mixed families. Same cannot be said about Polish or German nationalism. Tymek (talk) 23:08, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

No offence but now your blowing things out of proportion, I'm sure President Viktor Yushchenko does not want to kill anybody (just to name a prominent Ukrainian nationalist). Ukrainian nationalism is loving Ukraine, there is no harm in that so there is nothing wrong with being a Ukrainian nationalist. Extremes are bad, but to suggest it's wrong being a Ukrainian nationalist cause other Ukrainian nationalist killed people doesn't make any sence... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, I am talking about World War Two history all the time. Not about Yushchenko. Tymek (talk) 00:34, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess we just rediscovered an disadvantage of electronic communications... I thought you spoke about current Ukrainian nationalism.... glad we cleared that up! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:31, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Surely, it would be better to discuss these issues face to face, with a nice glass of Guinness or a shot of Jagermeister. But there is nothing we can do about it. Tymek (talk) 04:45, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Svoboda.gif)
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Hello

 * This is the English language version. Not orange. Not Ukranian. Only English. Understand? --Vizu (talk) 22:02, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Typo redirect Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep
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Bad news from Russia (again)
The vice-speaker of the Russian State Duma Vladimir Zhirinovskiy said today at a rally outside the Ukrainian embassy in Moscow “If Ukraine wants to be an independent state, it must return to the territory, in which it entered the Russian empire – it is a third of the present-day Ukraine”, V.Zhirinovskiy claimed, adding that the rest of the Ukrainian territory is “Russian land”. Imagine the German vice-speaker saying at a rally outside the Polish embassy in Berlin that half of Poland should be returned to Germany! I would think the world would react. And today the Russian permanent representative to NATO Dmitry Rogozin also said “In the broad sense of the word, there is a real threat of the collapse of the Ukrainian state.” Yes, it's certainly not easy to have such neighbours. Närking (talk) 21:03, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This behaviour is certainly not very European, thank god most of Europe got politicians who don't want to change borders, does Zhirinovskiy want's to give Königsberg back to Germany? What I can't understand is why these fruitcakes/crazies get such high positions! (Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko for president of Russia? Rogozin looks just as strange as Zhirinovskiy.) Do they get promoted to make Putin look nationalistic/imperialistic, or is he afraid they might get more popular then him? I would be ashamed if people like this would represent my country... Do you know what the real reason was why Dmitry Rogozin's Great Russia (political party) was denied registration by the Federal Registration Service thus could not compete in the election? The article could do with that information.... It would be strange if Putin stops the party from entering the elections but gives him a promotion anyway... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 00:36, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The sad thing is that Zhirinovskiy's view isn't a fringe one in Russia of today. Not sure what he would like to do with Königsberg but I've heard him saying that Sweden perhaps could take back Finland while Russia would take back the Baltics. And of course he also want Alaska back! I'm not sure what happened to Rogozin's party. It might just didn't fit in to Putin's plan at the time. Närking (talk) 20:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Poverty
Where do you see a poverty percentage on the CIA page for Ukraine? This page was last updated on 4 December 2008 --Tavrian 00:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I got that info from the article List of countries by percentage of population living in poverty + a UNIAN article. I know we all got our different ideas about Wikipedia but I personally believe that also the bad sides about Ukraine must be told here (hence I started the article Racism and discrimination in Ukraine). I've been in Ukraine several times and I know it's not Somalia but surely living conditions are overall not at "Western" standards. Statistical Ukrainians economy might be booming but people in the streets can't buy the rent with that. The current economy section in the article Ukraine is in my view a bit misleading and makes Ukraine look better of then it might be... In my view that's WP:SOAPBOX. -- Mariah-Yulia (talk) 00:41, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Логотип ГАКу.jpg
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Government of Ukraine
Hi! Could you update Next Ukrainian parliamentary election and 2008 Ukrainian political crisis now that a new coalition has been formed? Thanks! — Nightstallion 19:57, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Done as much as I can right now :), I also updated Yulia Tymoshenko, cheers! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you!
Thank you very much for the barnstar. Actually, the task of cleaning up this article is more time consuming than I expected. But this is an important article in the field of international energy policy and it really needs to be improved. As you see, the clean up is not finalized yet. At the first stage, I try to remove duplications and not directly related issues, to format references and identify weasel words and statements needing citation or verification. After that, we probably need to rewrite some sections trying to summarize overload of chronological facts and finding more academical sources. And certainly the background needs more historical perspective. Also information about the disputes in the beginning og 1990s is missing. I hope I didn't remove anything important. If I did, please feel free to put it back. Beagel (talk) 19:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem! I checked your deletions and nothing seems to be missing... "weasel words" is a bit of a recurring problem with Ukraine-Russia articles since editors sometimes edit from a nationalistic viewpoint with sometimes evokes strong reactions back (suffered from that myself too...). I got a bit lost in editing the article... Like (all Ukrainian politics) information is sometimes contradiction. Using more academical sources and books is a good idea! -- Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:54, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Political party templates
Hi, don't you think we have 'overtemplatization' here in Wikipedia? Many smaller articles are difficult to read due to large pics ('templates') in the article space. IMO adding such 'spaces' (i.e. templates) to articles doesn't gives reader additional knowledge, but does make navigation more difficult (categories should do the job finely). What do you think? (And merry Christmas, too, of course :)) --Pan Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 12:00, 24 December 2008 (UTC) Here e.g. I'd definitely omit the general 'Ukraine politics templ' and 'Communist parties of Europe'. --Pan Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 12:03, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm, I always find "Templates" easier in use then "Category's", but it does look crowded yes... maybe the templates should be moved to articles about elections... — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 17:48, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Happy New Year
And a happy New Year to you, too. Also, regardless of when and whether you choose to celebrate it, I wish you a happy Christmas. All the best -- Timberframe (talk) 14:30, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, same to you! I wonder what the new year will bring... A merge between BYuT, Lytvin Bloc and the Communist wouldn't surprise me anymore... If you got about $20 left you can buy (I already did) this book Virtual Politics: Faking Democracy in the Post-Soviet World (Hardcover) by Andrew Wilson. I bought it used (but to me the book looks brand new....) from midtownscholarbookstore and I got it 2 weeks later at my European home! Very interesting book about the political fixing in the Kuchma-age (although the book is not in a very chronology order and full of info about other former Soviet Republics I (now) have no interest in it has some very interesting new info). — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 18:00, 24 December 2008 (UTC)