User talk:Yunshui/Archive 15

Copyrights
Hello Yunshui! I asked for some advice and you helped me. Thanks a lot! You also wrote me about copyrights: "As far as your copyright inclusions are concerned, there may be two major issues. Firstly, it's not possible for a website owner to release text just for Wikipedia. All Wikipedia content must be free to re-release, modify and sell anywhere on- or off-line, meaning that the text needs to be clearly released under a CC-BY-SA licence (the source website needs to display this release). Secondly, a subject's website is rarely a good source for text - the content tends to be too promotional to meet Wikipedia's neutrality policy. It might be better to rephrase it in your own words even if it is available for free reuse. Images are more complicated still where copyright is concerned; you would again need to ensure that they are publicly released under a free licence before they could be used. Assuming that they are, you should upload them to Wikimedia Commons, rather than here. You may also need to file a notice with the volunteer response service to verify that you have permission to use the images."

I could keep asking for help but I thought that a discussion would be more appropriate. I am new to this environment and want to make sure I won't make mistakes. I'm talking about a living person's biography that I've been watching for years and have actually been to many of his concerts and read articles in the press etc etc. I used his biographical text (having his permission to use it) concidering it would be the "best" source. The text is nothing but facts (this happened then and that happened there which was followed by this... etc). There have been articles in the press (as well as his discography) along the years that verify these facts but the thing is that I can't find all of them because the links are dead. So, my question is if biographies are printed based on what the person whose life is being written says and these books are concidered good sources why can't someone's steps in music industry coming out of his mouth (or hand :p) be good sources too? I 'll repeat that wikipedia is free to (re)use the text. I can't find another way to explain it better. :-s You are certainly right about neutrality policy but just read the text. If you believe that something should change feel free to change it or let me know. Rephrasing the whole text (which I will do If I have to) won't change the facts neither do I have a better way to prove these facts. Xristiswiki (talk) 14:42, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Xristiswiki. You've run into a fairly common assumption that people make on Wikipedia - namely, that primary sources are the best sources of information. Who could be a more reliable source for information about Joe Blogg's life and work than Joe Bloggs himself? After all, he was there! Wikipedia, however, doesn't work like this; instead, we prefer - require, in fact - coverage in reliable secondary or tertiary sources. This is primarily due to the inherent conflict of interest caused whenever someone writes about themself - it's exceedingly difficult to write a genuinely neutral piece about oneself. Primary sources are permitted, in certain circumstances, but only in moderation.
 * If the text in question is literally just a list of facts, then it might be usable; if you give me a link to the page you intend to use I'd be happy to take a look and evaluate it for you. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  14:51, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, if it's the current content at George Perris (which is largely taken from his facebook page, as far as I can tell), then it's waaay non-neutral; that whole page needs a heavy copyedit to remove the promotional text. I'll do it myself tomorrow if no-one gets there first; I'm only online for another five or ten minutes and that's going to be at least a half-hour job to clean up. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  15:00, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * In fact - and I'm sorry to have to do this - I've removed virtually all of that page, since it's directly taken from Perris' website (http://www.georgeperris.com/en/biography) He may have given you permission to use it, but the website still clearly states that it's content is non-free ("Copyright 2010 George Perris. All rights reserved"). As long as the website is not released under a free licence, its text cannot be used on Wikipedia, regardless of whether Mr Perris emails you to say otherwise. He will need to update the site to release the text under a CC-BY-SA licence before we can use it, although as I said above, the content is far too promotional for Wikipedia in any case. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  15:07, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok then. Change the text according to wikipedia's policy :)Xristiswiki (talk) 15:37, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * What Yunshui is saying is there's no way that we can use that text in its current state at all. Plus, it's not how we really work here to take text and copy-paste it to make a collage of an article. We take those sources, ingest the information, then crap out some neutral information that is only facts that are neutral in every way. For example, where a source says "He helped pioneer the first and only internet dating service of his time, and many people love him for it" we would put "He was the creator of the first internet dating service, link" as it's more neutral. If you really want us to be able to use the text, you have to get the website owner to remove the (c) by George Perris 2010 on EVERY page on the website, and replace it with something along the lines of "This page and all content therein is licensed under the Creative Commons CC-BY-SA license, and is reusable under the terms thereof". Make sure that the author knows that this means I can reuse his text in a school paper, my own website, a newspaper article, wherever I want to, without his permission, as long as I attribute it to him and release it under a similar license. gwickwire  talk edits 17:07, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's ok, I'm not offended. :-) In fact I need all the help I can get that's why I discussed it with Yunshui. I'll wait until tomorrow to see what he will have done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xristiswiki (talk • contribs) 18:18, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've now adapted the information on Perris' website to create a "Career" section in the article. Note that rather than reusing Perris' text, I have simply taken the bare facts and, to use gwickwire's delightful phrase, "crapped out some neutral information". I've also removed the tag, since the content is no longer promotional. Yunshui  雲 &zwj; 水  08:48, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I just saw it! Thanks a lot! If I had known it was that "easy" I wouldn't have been looking for "References". I have one more question though. Perris' site hasn't been updated (I think) so what about the 2011 and 2012 events? For instance, the canadian tour (which is a past event) would be concidered advertising text? I'm just asking in a an attempt to get the hang of it. Xristiswiki (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The problem with any post-2010 events is that Perris' website doesn't verify that they took place, only that they were planned. One might reasonably assume they took place, but we would need other, more recent sources that gave them coverage before the information could be included in the article. Basically, a website that was last updated in 2010 is only good as a source for pre-2010 information. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  11:45, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Therefore when the site gets updated I will be allowed to use the information? I don't know anything about these things... I suppose when the biography field gets updated the date at the bottom of the page will get updated as well, right?Xristiswiki (talk) 12:40, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes to the first question, although other independent sources for the Canadian tour and subsequent events would be preferable (this might suffice, although I'm not sure whether it meets the sourcing guidelines). As to the second, I would assume so, otherwise the new content wouldn't be correctly copyrighted. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  12:50, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess I'll have to wait and see... Oh! I certainly have questions about the redirects (I'd like to link the albums with new pages (or whatever this can be)the same way I did for "un souhait" and "pairno anasa". But first I have to think about it and then actually do or ask about anything Xristiswiki (talk) 13:52, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If you want to create articles at pages which are currently redirects, follow this simple process:
 * Search for the article in the usual way.
 * You'll find yourself redirected to the target page. At the top of the page, just under the title, you'll see a little legend that says Redirected from ..., with a link to the search term you used. Click the link.
 * You'll now find yourself at the actual redirect page; as you did with Pairno anasa, remove the  text and replace it with the text you want to have in the article.
 * This will break the redirect, so future searches will lead directly to the page.
 * All the usual rules (notability, reliable sources, verification apply, naturally, so make sure you have enough for an article; there's nothing wrong with a redirect if all the available material can be reasonably included in the target page. (For example, the current article at Pairno anasa is basically just an unsourced track listing - there's nothing to indicate that the album is particularly noteworthy. If that's all the information there is, a redirect is actually a more sensible option, since it will at least lead the reader to learn something about the artist.) We also have a guideline - WP:NALBUM - that specifically requires album pages to redirect to the artist's page if there isn't any reason to assume they are notable. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  14:03, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
I just saw it! Thanks a lot! If I had known it was that "easy" I wouldn't have been looking for "References". I have one more question though. Perris' site hasn't been updated (I think) so what about the 2011 and 2012 events? For instance, the canadian tour (which is a past event) would be concidered advertising text? I'm just asking in a an attempt to get the hang of it. Xristiswiki (talk) 11:30, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Sorry! wrong place for my message...!Xristiswiki (talk) 11:32, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Challenge accepted but..........
Hi Yunshui,

Funnily enough I landed on that page very recently. I thought it was in a sorry state and as I'd never heard of it as a breed I did a quick spin around some sources to see what I could find. It rather looks as if it's simply what any stray dog is called in the Philippines. I'll certainly see if I can find out some more and then try to make any necessary changes.

Now, in return, I have some questions for you! Sometimes if I've reverted a good faith edit I put a note on the editors page especially if they are just starting to edit. I probably shouldn't say this but I don't always feel the standard 'Welcome' templates are great or appropriate - I like to try and personalise it a bit to explain why I reverted and also try to put some help page links. I feel some of the standard templates are a bit daunting. So.....I've semi devised my own - see this as an example of the type of thing I mean. How can I put a copy of this on my user and/or talk page in a sort of quick template so I can quickly copy it over instead of raking for ages to find a previous one? But maybe I shouldn't be changing the standard template?

Next question (one challenge from you means I get to ask at least ten questions!). I've been playing with a stub article in my sandbox here; I think I've got it about as far as I can take it now so could you have a quick skim through to see if there are any glaring problems. Once I've done a lot more work on this one I'll look to submit that as a new article. Yeah, I know they're both pretty boring but at least they're not dog articles! SagaciousPhil  -  Chat  09:46, 18 January 2013 (UTC)


 * It's not actually that hard to create your own message templates; here's what you do:
 * Create a new page in your userspace for the template (something like User:Sagaciousphil/Welcome).
 * On that page, create the message that you want to appear, and save it.
 * When you want to use it on a user talkpage, place the name of the page between double curly brackets and prefix it with  - the code for the above example would be
 * This command tells the software to substitute ("subst") the contents of the named page for the template that you just typed - essentially, it copy-pastes everything on your welcome message page onto the destination talkpage. Feel free to try it on my talkpage if you want to see whether it works.
 * Your expansion of the James Ferguson article is exceptional - whilst I haven't gone through it with a fine-tooth comb (it's late here...) I'm very impressed after giving it a once-over. Once you copy it across to the live article, make sure you put yourself up for another Did you know? nomination; it meets all the requirements (and a hook like, "Did you know that James Ferguson was so ugly that his own mother warned him against being mistaken for a rapist?" should garner quite a few hits...). Truly, a fantastic piece of work; if we had more editors like you Wikipedia would have been completed by now.
 * All the best, Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  23:12, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Yunshui, you are always very helpful and it is much appreciated! I did do the DYK nomination and pinched your suggested hook . As I haven't had much 'real world' sub-editing to do at the moment, I have also spent some time playing over at DYK reviewing other nominations (I bet they all hate me for cherry picking the ones that look easy and straightforward). I also managed to set up the welcome template by following your very simply explained instructions, so again, thank you!


 * I've messed about a bit with the page we spoke about, which hasn't helped much; I'll leave it for a few days to see if it gets any re-action but have a feeling I may end up just giving it a prod next week.


 * Do you by any chance know if there is a problem with the Wiki email system today as I'm suddenly not getting any notifications - I've checked that notification is still enabled and the email address used is still functioning correctly (yes, I know, I sent myself an email to check - how sad is that?).  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  14:04, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * DYK is always a bit backlogged, they'll appreciate the help. I looked over a couple of your reviews; you seem to be doing it right, although I'd hazard a guess that the supposed copyvio at Escape from Tomorrow is actually the Daily Omnivore copying from Wikipedia - the publication dates are the same (which is common for wikimirrors, but less common for copyvios) and Daniel is a very competent contributor and admin; it seems very unlikely that he'd commit such a fundamental error. You weren't to know either of those things, though, so your vigilance in trying to catch copyright violations is to be applauded.
 * I haven't noticed any email issues, but I don't have notifications set up - usually my email is just a long list of unblock requests and complaints about deletion, and they're still getting through (more's the pity...). I've had a quick snout around the Village pump and a few appropriate talkpages, but haven't turned up anything. Leave a message at the technical discussion board if it persists; they'll know what to do. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  14:26, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, I did think it very unlikely to be a copyvio by the nominator and suspected the Daily Omnivore site was to blame. I did try to flag it as nicely as I could, just to be on the safe side; I expect I'll (deservedly) get a sharp/swift wrist slap for it but hey ho, my skin is getting thicker!  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  14:38, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You phrased it very politely, and Daniel's one of the nicer admins; I'm sure you'll escape unscathed! Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  14:43, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Re: Not everybody is a vandal!
Hi Yunshui,

Reding your message, I briefly considered dropping anti-vandal work for a while and signed up for dispute resolution. Not all that long after, I sighed at how long, stringy and complex the discussions were. I will have to be honest with you - The only reason I am on Wikipedia is to keep vandals controlled. If it wasn't for STiki and Huggle (by the way, I got my Rollback back...I promise to be extra careful with it), I would probably have gotten bored with Wikipedia long ago. It's my glue. I occasionally complete a couple of questions at my adoption page - probably at a frequency of once every three days.

I may be finding it hard to admit that I may be slanting towards the "I am right and everyone else is wrong" philosophy, but I think I should stick with anti-vandalism work for a while, get the hang of it, then drop it when I feel my work is done.

Of course, as you are my mentor, you may advise me against this, if you want. Cheers! Kevin12xd (talk) (contribs) 21:37, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Your on-wiki (and off-wiki!) activities are your own affair; I'm hardly ever going to tell you what to do, just advise you as best I can. If all you want to do at the moment is fight vandalism, that's absolutely fine. I'm here to help you, not order you about!
 * On an unrelated note, could you point to a couple of examples of my "unblocked per WP:ROPE" editors who've gone on to vandalise again? I endorse Callanecc's response, but it would help me improve if you gave examples, so I could keep any eye out for similar behavioural indicators in the future. Cheers, Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  03:24, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Looking to Learn
Are you interested in helping me out through the adopt-a-user program? --PMChi (talk) 06:15, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi PMChi, and welcome to Wikipedia. Yes, I'd be happy to help show you the ropes. I'm going offline for a couple of hours very shortly, but I'll set up an adoption for you properly as soon as I'm back. All the best, Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  06:19, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yunshui, thanks for the opportunity; I'm looking forward to it.--PMChi (talk) 16:09, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

IronKnuckle
The SPI came up negative - you might want to alter your unblock-decline, as he thinks he's being unfairly picked on anyway. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 10:13, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Done; I hadn't spotted that the block reason had been changed (it wasn't in the log). Rather than strike that line, I've taken the slightly unusual step of removing it entirely; I figure if he feels victimised then that's probably a kinder way to remove it from the template. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:18, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. JohnCD (talk) 11:11, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 21 January 2013

 * Read this Signpost in full
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 * EdwardsBot (talk) 01:03, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Chao's outside, [...]
Hello. Thanks for the swell assistance, mm, would you mind reviewing the DYK nom for Peter Chao at the same time? Is that your cup of tea? Thanks a lot. Cheers Bonkers The Clown  (Nonsensical Babble) 10:38, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Done; generally fine but it's slightly shy of the necessary prose length (direct quotes don't count towards the prose length requirement). Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:52, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh... So that's why. I didn't know that. Will work on it. Really want it to be on the main. Cheers. Bonkers The Clown  (Nonsensical Babble) 11:54, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't be a problem; whack another short paragraph in (a short bio of Tong, perhaps, or a fictional one of Chao?) and it'll get through. Yunshui  雲 &zwj; 水  11:58, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks good now. Peace dove.svg Bonkers The Clown  (Nonsensical Babble) 12:46, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It does indeed; I've approved the DYK nom. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  12:51, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks and cheers. Bonkers The Clown  (Nonsensical Babble) 12:56, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Congrats... You gave an awesome answer in the Teahouse!
I want to point out specific questions that you have answered thoughtfully, helpfully, in clear detail, and with a welcoming tone... but there are just too many of them to choose from. You're an excellent guide and communicator and I'm so glad you're a part of the Teahouse. Thanks!

Also, in case you were wondering, we're trying a new experiment centered around 'acknowledgements' in the Teahouse. If you see someone doing something awesome, find the Badge that fits best and share it with them. More details are linked on the Badge itself. Cheers! Ocaasit &#124; c 14:21, 25 January 2013 (UTC) 


 * Ooh, new shiny thing (*rushes, squirrel-like, to hoard it on userpage*). Thanks Ocaasi. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  14:25, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

AV Work
Hey, I see you've got quite the knack for anti-vandal patrol. I'm curious if you ever tried using WP:STiki. It's my favorite a-v tool and it tends to catch more 'subtle' types of vandalism. Maybe check it out, I'd love to hear what you think about it. (note: you can select which 'queue' you review, either the leftover ClueBot feed that is likely vandalism but not high enough confidence to revert automatically, or the STiki queue which has its own metadata algorithm, or a linkspam queue which is all about, well, linkspam). Cheers! Ocaasit &#124; c 15:05, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Everybody loves STiki... sadly, I don't get to play with it. Because I edit primarily from a heavily firewalled PC, downloads aren't an option - so no Huggle either . I used to have a whale of a time with Igloo, but since the summer that's been pretty much defunct due to server issues. I never get to have any fun... Thanks for the thought, though! Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  22:00, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Nestlé
Hi. Time ago, you protected Nestlé, indefinitely, which was its first protection. I think this is excessive, considering the page received "normal" vandalism for such visible page. I'd like to know which is the possibility to unprotected it or its protection replaced with pending changes Lv. 1. Thank you. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  20:41, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That seems like a reasonable idea. Give me a moment to step into this convenient phonebooth and tear open my shirt to reveal the big "A" logo... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  22:03, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * There we go, done. Thanks for the suggestion. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  22:04, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Request for assistance
Hello, I was wondering if you could review a discussion re: the exclusion of the National Women's Soccer League on WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues and provide your feedback? Discussion is available here. I'm seeking some impartial feedback from an administrator. There is a little bit of additional discussion on my Talk page. Thank you for your consideration. Hmlarson (talk) 02:19, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It looks like you've alrdy got a plethora of additional opinions there (just FYI, a request for comment is the usual way of doing that, and would avoid accusations of canvassing); I don't think adding my voice to the fray would be especially helpful, particularly since I know very little about the topic. I do endorse your suggestion that WP:NFOOTY might benefit from some revision in light of this, though. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  17:11, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Adding course to Wikipedia's list of courses
Hi, Stuart! Quick question: how do I add our course (Theater History from 1642) to the "master" list of courses here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Courses ?? Thanks! Amy E Hughes (talk) 20:44, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Amy. It's actually already there - just filter the status to "Planned" instead of "Current". Once the start date rolls around, it will be relisted as current and will appear on the current course list. You can change the start date to today or earlier to make it appear there now, if you wish. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  17:04, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah! Okay. I will be patient, then. :) Thanks! Amy E Hughes (talk) 17:13, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

IP Special:Contributions/50.138.176.117
Hello Yunshui, What are you doing here on a Sunday afternoon (well, it is here!). I'm not sure if this is really something you want to nip into your convenient telephone kiosk and don your SuperAd tee-shirt for, but the above IP constantly removes headings etc. Also consistently changes the same articles. Almost everything is then duly reverted back by other editors. There don't seem to be that many unconstructive edit warnings on the IPs talk page but I must admit the few I've reverted, I thought they were to basic to bother with and I suspect others felt the same. However, when you go through the contributions there seem to be an awful of them? Probably just something and nothing but maybe worth 'SuperAd' keeping an eye on! SagaciousPhil  -  Chat  17:24, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Bit later in the evening here (and right back atcha, incidentally...). In all honestly I've got a migraine brewing and I don't think I'm in much condition to make valid admin judgements right now as a result; I'll take a proper look tomorrow if no-one else gets there first. Painkillers and sleep are the order of the day at chateau Yunshui.... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  18:47, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Your RfB?
Hi, have you seen this? - Dank (push to talk) 20:52, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I undid it since it wasn't formatted properly and left Kevin a note here. Legoktm (talk) 20:54, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * WHAT. THE. HELL?! Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  21:12, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * There should be an edit filter against transcluding RfXes where the subject hasn't yet accepted. And against attempting to add a non-transcluded RfX to the RfA page. — PinkAmpers   &#38;   ( Je vous invite à me parler )  21:17, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's cool; my heart rate's dropped back to it's usual level now. On that note; time for bed. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  21:21, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Seriously Yunshui, you might actually pass. I say it's worth a try. Automatic Strikeout  ( T  •  C ) 21:22, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Yunshui, I am really sorry about that. I didn't mean to alarm you about your nomination; I though you might appreciate it. About the formatting...well, I had no idea it was incorrect. On an unrelated note, I was curious as to know what your ethnic background is and what country you live in? I don't mean to be the black-cloak shady figure around the corner, but I am genuinely curious about your background, and since you said "time for bed" at...er...around 6:40 PM, this ha led me to wonder about your time zone. Cheers, Kevin12xd (talk) (contribs) 23:47, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * He he! I agree with Automatic Strikeout, you had a good chance of passing it! Bad miss! And 's suggestion is a good one! --Tito Dutta (talk) 00:05, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm a bit late I know but without a doubt i'd support an RfB for Yunshui and I await when i'll be able to put down my support. MIVP - Allow us to be of assistance to you. (Maybe a bit of tea for thought?) 17:22, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Haven't encountered something this complex before...
Hello Yunshui,

Taking your advice, I've been doing some work with unblock requests and users with the helpme template on their page. I've also started reviewing requested edits, and I've encountered the following scenario...See this, my response, and the user's talkpage... Anything I did wrong, or should do? Cheers, Kevin12xd (talk) (contribs) 00:14, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * My advice would have been somewhat different, but the end result would have been the same. As with so much on Wikipedia, it boils down to sourcing. Entries in lists are subject to the same notability requirements as articles (per WP:Source list), so if Mr Game's song has received sufficient coverage, it could be added. I can't find any such coverage from a cursory webtrawl, so I'd guess that Happy New Year doesn't meet the inclusion requirements. For the same reason, it probably wasn't a great idea to suggest that he write an article about the song and/or album; it would be deleted before very long.
 * With a requested edit like this, the addition wouldn't be considered promotional: the editor who added it to the article would not be the same COI editor who proposed it (e.g. if I had found sources showing the song was notable, I would have added it to the list) and simple inclusion in a list is not usually taken to be especially spammy.
 * However, the result is the same either way: the song shouldn't be included on the list. If Mr Game isn't satisfied with your answer he can always file another edit request (which will probably be denied for the reasons above). No harm done. I'm glad to see you branching out into editor assistance; it can be frustrating at times but is also one of the most rewarding areas of Wikipedia to work in. The one cardinal rule is never to answer a question unless you're sure about the answer - but if you do run across anything you're unsure of, you know where to find me! Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:30, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

History of the American West
Hi Yunshui--Thanks for volunteering to be an online ambassador for my course--that would be great. We have a training session tomorrow and will hopefully get started on small editing projects very soon. Lynn Johnson — Preceding unsigned comment added by Docjay57 (talk • contribs) 01:59, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Replied on your talkpage. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:08, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Mahdi Ahadi
salaam. why did u delete ayatollah ahadi article ? :( — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.49.68.159 (talk) 11:50, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Because it was a direct copy of this page, which is not freely licenced for reuse. There were other reasons the page wss unsuitable, which have been explained on the article creator's talkpage, but since copyright violations are a legal issue, this was the principal reason for deletion. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  11:55, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Accord Institute
I'm waiting for status update. Please let me know how to proceed. Thanks in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akif5353 (talk • contribs) 22:57, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You are welcome to submit a new AFC for the Accord Institute. However, you will need to:
 * Ensure that sufficient reliable, independent sources are provided to meet the inclusion requirements
 * Avoid any potentially promotional language or content
 * Adhere closely to Wikipedia's neutrality policy
 * Write the article entirely in your own words, without copying or paraphrasing pre-existing text
 * If you can follow those basic rules, feel free to recreate Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Accord Institute for Education Research. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  23:13, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Unblock request denial
Yunshui, you claim that the content of my edit was "irrelevant" in your decision to deny my unblock request but it was the content which led to the original deletions. If you look closely at the deletion pattern, you'll see that 4 different editors deleted my edit. First, they said my edit was "disruptive, then cited copyright rules. Clearly, these people are working in concert to make sure the AR-15 page remains devoid of any facts about it's history as a weapon used in mass killings.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trblmkr1 (talk • contribs) 15:13, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I see you've just been blocked again for the same behaviour. You really need to read and understand Wikipedia's policy on edit warring - at this point, the content of the edit is entirely irrelevant. If four different editors revert you - indeed, if only one editor reverts you - the appropriate course of action is to discuss the issue with them, not revert back to your preferred version. Your content may be totally accurate, correct and well-sourced: it doesn't matter. As I said before, you are being blocked for your behaviour, not your content additions. If you don't get your head around this, and soon, you'll probably find yourself blocked indefinitely. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  20:11, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 January 2013

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 * EdwardsBot (talk) 20:09, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Adminship
Hi Yunshui,

I've been on Wikipedia for almost half a year now, and somehow it just seems to be getting more and more engaging. As you probably know, I enjoy reverting vandalism and commenting on unblock requests. Sometime in the future, preferably in 6 or 7 months, I would like to become an administrator. Ad you are my mentor, who has ultimately guided me out of my vandalism (Wow! I used to be a vandal?), I would very much appreciate it if we began a drawn-out policy immersion to prepare for my RfA. Let me know what you think. Cheers, Kevin12xd (talk) (contribs) 01:40, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and by the way, thanks for the beer! Gulp! Wait a minute...I'm not a drinker! Oops.


 * Hi Kevin,
 * I'm very glad to have had a hand in guiding you to becoming a constructive contributor, and I'm doubly happy that you're enjoying working on Wikipedia. Adminship is not an inconceivable future goal, but I'll be honest: six or seven months from your current state is somewhat ambitious - I'd be thinking more in one to two years as a timeframe. I know that seems like ages, but trust me, you'll need that sort of period to tick all the necessary boxes for RFA...
 * First things first: I know I'm always harping on at you about it, but do finish the adoption schooling - not only will it serve to introduce you to some of the policies you'll need to know, but your answers also highlight the areas we need to work on, and that will help me to iron out the wrinkles in your understanding.
 * Many people - myself included, as it happens - will tend to oppose RFAs where the candidate has not made some significant content contributions. As a minimum, you should aim to have fulfilled the requirements for the autopatrolled userright (50+ created articles which meet the basic sourcing and notabililty criteria) and have a few DYK nominations under your belt; if you can contribute substantially to taking one or two articles to Good Article or even Featured Article status, that will also be a feather in your cap. Content creation, assuming it's done right, shows a sound knowledge of the policies that govern content, and since content is the goal of the whole project, those are far and away the most important rules we have. If you can demonstrate that your purpose here is to improve the encyclopedia, that will count heavily in your favour. In the same vein, try doing some reviewing work at Articles for creation; this is also a good way to show that you know your way around content requirements.
 * You'll need to show that you can be diplomatic about solving disputes: DRN is, as you've said, long and complicated, but that's the sort of thing you're going to need to deal with as an admin on a regular basis. If that seems a bit too much to start with, try offering a third opinion on some disagreements. The important thing to remember when you get involved in these things is to keep a cool head - don't get involved in cases where you already have a strong opinion one way or the other. If you aren't sure about something, go and read the relevant policy/guideline before commenting. Most importantly, don't become part of the argument - dispute resolution is about mediation, not about adopting one side of the debate and furiously piling in against the opposition.
 * Help new users. I'm not sure that you have the right temperment to be a Teahouse host at the moment (not a criticism; some of the best admins on Wikipedia have avoided Teahouse work because they don't fit the profile), but you should certainly consider lending a hand at the helpdesk, and you may also want to start tracking the Feedback Dashboard, which is an easy way to find people who need assistance.
 * Put the Administrators Incident Noticeboard on your watchlist, and keep abreast of the discussions there. Do not get involved in them - just read and inwardly digest. Watching ANI in action can be a bit like watching a car crash in slow motion, but it can also give you a good idea of how the admin corps work.
 * For the present, try and avoid doing any non-admin admin work (like closing AFD discussions, clerking AIV or RPP, commenting on blocks etc.) Until you've got a better grasp of the policies involved, you're more likely to harm your chances than improve them. Save this sort of work for six to eight months down the road, when you'll be a well-established editor with good decison-making skills.
 * That'll do for starters. As a simple first goal, try and complete your adoption school by - let's say - the start of April; once that's out of the way we can start thinking about content creation and other areas. Be prepared for a long haul. The important thing to keep in mind is that the overarching goal of this place is to build an encyclopedia, not gather hats - if you can show (not tell) that your goal is the same, you stand a decent chance of passing RFA one day. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:22, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Why did you decline my article?
First of all the dergree is variable and secondly it takes two years of your article being in a scientific journal before it is accepted by clay institute. My article has been accepted to scientific journal vixra itself. Why did you decline the Andrew Magdy Kamal article if the sources are valid? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.251.206.179 (talk) 17:05, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Because the sources aren't valid. Every single one of them stems directly from (and I've been avoiding identifying you, but since the above comment clearly shows you are Andrew Kamal) your own self-promotion attempts. You may think you're a genius; hell, you may actually be a genius, but until a reliable source (that isn't you) verifies your claims, you don't merit an article on Wikipedia. If even half of your claims are true, you should be world-famous - so how come in all the searches I've run (and I've run quite a few now) I've not once found anyone who isn't you validating your claims?
 * Wikipedia as a community is generally pretty good at spotting hoaxes; we're well practiced at it. Please give up this vain attempt to create an autobiography here, and do something more constructive with your time. Being in an academic journal might give your work some validity, but since Vixra will publish literally anything, without peer-review, they are not considered a scientific journal by the majority of the academic community. If you have indeed solved Reimann and the Clay Institute verifies it, then all the accolades you desire will be heaped on you (plus a million dolars, if I remember correctly). That will certainly make you notable, but since the Institute gets thousands of "solutions" every year, I wouldn't hold your breath. Yunshui  雲 &zwj; 水  17:19, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Help
Hello Yunshui. (Are these kanjis "Cloud of water?") You left a reply to my 'help' notice and asked what is the problem,and here is my reply. All my edits in a BLP article Leonard Oprea have been deleted, and they were all based in material that is already in the references. Every single word I wrote was erased. I am now not talking about the entire article that was deleted just when I finished adding all the requested citations, and replaced with this new version. I am talking about additions in the present version. The BLP article as it stands talks about some five years of a career of 30 years, and mentions less than half the books this author has published. Any additions I made to the new article that were based on references I brought to the talk have been deleted. Even references to online editions of books that were already listed were erased. Even books that were mentioned in secondary references were deleted. I don't want to go into an edit war. I am a professional editor in my private life and I edit numerous scientific article. I know the difference between verifiable and not verifiable references and I read the wiki policies on self-published books. In the case of people who self-publish as a direct continuation of regular third party publishing wiki says that this can be included. At least this is what I understand from “Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications”. I said that I intend to go into dispute resolution if the matter is not resolved otherwise. Meanwhile not one of 'deleting' editors are responding. User: Biruitorul who wrote the new version and initially agreed to incorporate changes suggested by me, has stopped contributing as well. In short...I would like to solve this matter amicably but this seems unachievable.Sensei2004 (talk) 22:48, 1 February 2013 (UTC) P.S. I don't mind getting a reply here (I read the header after I wrote my comment, sorry).Sensei2004 (talk) 22:51, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Sensei2004. Are you referring to this edit? It seems to me that you're basically attempting to do three things:
 * Establish Oprea's current residence as Auburn
 * Include a mention of Domenii interzise as his first published work
 * Add links to Editura.liternet editions of Oprea's books.
 * Looking over the article as an uninvolved party (an admittedly fairly quick glance), I have to say that I only partially agree with Biruitorul's removal of those elements:
 * You've provided no source in the article for the statement that Oprea resides in Auburn. Note that I'm not saying this information isn't true, just that it isn't verified by a source. I notice that you did provide this source on the talkpage in an attempt to corroborate the information, but unfortunately all that the linked article shows is that Oprea once ran two writing courses in Auburn. To extrapolate his residency there from that is original research; you're making a claim that isn't in the source. (As an analogy, I've taught martial arts workshops in London and Birmingham, but I don't live in either of those cities - anyone finding my classes listed in the London Evening Standard would be sorely mistaken if they assumed I was a local.) Unfortunately the only acceptable sources I've found for this violate WP:BLPCRIME, since they're all reports of his 2009 arrest. It may not be possible to include this information without violating BLP policy; I think it might be worth bring up at the BLP noticeboard. I'm tempted to suggest that since this information is technically verifiable (anyone with Google and a couple of minutes can find Oprea's home address elsewhere), we should probably include it, but I'm open to being argued out of that position.
 * I can definitely see a case for including Domenii interzise in his publications, but again, it needs to be sourced - this should suffice (it's an interview with Oprea and thus a primary source, but that's acceptable for uncontentious statements about an article's subject).
 * There's no point in including the Editura links - not only are they sales links (which are prohibited by the External Links policy), but they are of no relevance when considered alongside more reputable publishers such as Curtea Veche. There's simply no encyclopedic value in adding this information.
 * As far as your immediate future actions go, I'd advise against re-adding the information - you'll get yourself in hot water for edit warring if you do. Remember, there's no deadline for Wikipedia: I'd advise further discussion with the other editors involved. Leave them talkpage messages, and wait to hear their views as well. If that fails, then maybe dispute resolution is indeed the next appropriate step. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  23:50, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your prompt reply. Yes, I was referring to this edit. The deletions were made without any comment, except that User:MSJapan said that the Facebook page indicates Boston as residence, and I don't accept this reason. The previous article that stayed on wiki for a long time indicated that he lived earlier in Boston and now in Maine and I did not have problems when I inserted that. This is just a simple fact, not research, this is where he lives. (The article about his arrest was inserted as an act of vandalism against Oprea, he has meanwhile been cleared of all charges, and this was also discussed in the talk, and this is also mentioned in the interview if I remember correctly).

I have heaps of more material that needs to find its way to the article, and I really don't understand all wiki policies against calling a spade a spade when you see it is a spade. In addition, I cannot be in a situation in which every word I add, and base on references is erased with no explanation. I find myself in a weird situation in which I am not be allowed to add material on my own, and this now seems to be an ownership issue. In any case, thanks for your input, I intend to go to dispute resolution because as you can see I have tried to let User; Biruitorul do the insertions but nothing happened. The article as it stands at the moment is terrible because it dwells only on the past (and even that not accurately) and says nothing about the present, and this is a major flaw for any BLP article. Btw, the links to LiterNet are not "sales links" as the site is not commercial and the download is free. I agree however to just list them as a third edition of his books without the links (and this edition is also mentioned in a secondary source by Liviu Antonesei).Sensei2004 (talk) 03:15, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Age of Majority?
Hi Yunshui,

I was taking a peek over Kudpung's Advice for RfA candidates page, and I noticed the comment about the age of majority (18 in most countries, including Canada.) Unfortunately, as you may have noticed, my age falls way below 18. Considering this, is there any chance my RfA result could be biased? Cheers, Kevin12xd (talk) (contribs) 02:27, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't be an issue. Whilst technically speaking age should be no barrier to adminship (and we do have a few underage admins who are perfectly competent), it can be a factor in people's voting. The problem isn't really physical age so much as maturity; if a candidate's history shows that they can act in a mature and responsible manner then age is less likely to be an issue. Show that you can edit consistently in a calm, competent, level-headed way; demonstrate that you think deeply about all aspects of an issue before commenting on it; put in the hours slogging away to crate content or provide sources; interact with other editors in a reasonable and mature manner: all of these will help mitigate any potential age-related bias. There's an interesting essay on the subject here, if you want to read up a little more. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:18, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Spagnos
My page, Spagnos, was deleted by you due to violation. However, all I was doing was letting the world know of the country I created. In a newer, non-violating version, should I say that it is only made-up or what? Please do something, Yunshui. I would love to have a page on Wikipedia and share my ideas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flyhorses21 (talk • contribs) 18:14, 2 February 2013
 * I have explained to this user at REFUND and on their talk page that this is not what Wikipedia is for, and suggested some alternative outlets for them to write about their invented country. JohnCD (talk) 19:53, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * This is clearly the work of a troller; However, all I was doing was letting the world know of the country I created. In a newer, non-violating version, should I say that it is only made-up or what. Kevin12xd (talk) (contribs) 00:30, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * No, not a troller, just someone who doesn't understand what Wikipedia is for. JohnCD (talk) 11:00, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Ambassador application
Hello sir, May I introduce myself I'm User:TucsonDavid. I'd love to be an Ambassador and would like your consideration of my application found [ here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Online_Ambassadors#TucsonDavid ThanksTucsonDavid U . S . A . 17:04, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Major (duo)
Hi, I just looked on wikipedia for the new UK act Major that was reveiwed by Pop justice a few days ago. I could not see a page but saw that you had deleted one. As this seems to be an upcoming group and is reviewed by the influential online site Pop Justice I would have though they warranted an entry. With an eye on maybe submitting something in the future, did you remove the page because they are very new, the page was uniformative or you felt that their music is not worthwhile? Thanks Jonno — Preceding unsigned comment added by JonnoStokes (talk • contribs) 17:30, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Jonno. The page was deleted because it gave no reason for the group being important or notable, and was therefore eligible for deletion under criterion A7 of the speedy deletion policy. If you wish to contest the deletion, you may do so at Requests for undeletion. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:54, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Re: My unbanning
It seems that Tristan noir has interpreted your reply to me differently than how I took it.

I understood it as meaning "Because everyone but Tristan has said you should be unbanned, I hereby unban you, and you may now freely edit articles on which Tristan has been working", and so I went ahead and made this edit to the article Fujiwara no Takamitsu. If you meant to say that as of that point my IBAN had expired, could you clarify that point for Tristan? I have already tried pointing this out to him, but he seems to take this as me trying to "direct traffic" or otherwise unilaterally declare my own ban to have been lifted.

If indeed you meant, as Tristan apparently believes you did, "If/when you are unbanned, you will be allowed freely edit articles on which Tristan has been working", then my edit was out-of-line, and you can revert it and block me for 24 hours as appropriate.

I must admit, lastly, that I considered making this request of you via e-mail, because I know Tristan noir will, as he has before, draw "creative" conclusions from my contacting other users on their talk pages. However, it really isn't necessary, and might have actually impugned my good faith by contacting you privately. I hope by lampshading this fact here I will prevent Tristan from drawing another lengthy diatribe out of this (he has done that to me before, believe it or not).

Cheers!

elvenscout742 (talk) 09:59, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Forgot one! That was actually the worst example: he accuses me of "possible stealth-canvassing" for sending an e-mail to Drmies and "canvassing" for sending him a thank-you for readin the e-mail. The reason I sent that piece by e-mail was that, in the course of dealing with Tristan, who has obvious COI issues, I became 99.9% certain of his real-world identity (and 100% certain of User:Kujakupoet's). I wanted to explain my concern to an admin who was helping me clean up an article the two had messed up, but posting that information on-Wiki would have been WP:OUTING. elvenscout742 (talk) 10:23, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Asking me for clarification, as you've done here, isn't in any way a violation of WP:CANVASS, so you can rest easy on that score. As far as the ban goes, I've reiterated my statement at WP:AN: you are no longer constrained by an interaction ban with Tristan noir. If anyone disagrees with my interpretation of the consensus in that thread then they're free to disagree there or take it up with me here, but since all of the commentators so far support lifting the IBAN (at least your side of it) I'd say the community's opinion is fairly clear. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:07, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

YGM
Just in case. :) It's about your request. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 21:21, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Shannon Bennett Article
Hi Yunshui I am web developer of www.vuedemonde.com.au you delete my article( Shannon Bennett Page ) I want to say that the content of http://www.vuedemonde.com.au/shannon_bennett_biography was written by me. By the way I am working for Shannon Bennett And if it is possible please restore the article I write another biography for him Thank you so much — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahcin (talk • contribs) 23:06, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Since the text on your website is not unambiguously released under a CC-BY-SA licence (or similar free licence) it cannot be legally used on Wikipedia. All Wikipedia content, including that submitted from other sites, must be free to reuse, alter, sell or redistribute, with attribution. Even if the content were free to use, its tone is promotional and unencyclopedic, and is not at all appropriate for Wikipedia. In addition, you have a clear conflict of interest regarding Mr Bennett, and thus, per our conflict of interest guidelines you are strongly discouraged from writing about him here. A more appropriate avenue would be to list his name at Request articles, so that an unbiased, neutral editor can create an appropriate page. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  23:30, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

User:Manumurali2012
Hi, could you please look on the contributions of this user. I have looked and reverted spam links which he continue to post in Indian actors/actresses and also on other articles. Since his last block (which you performed), he hasn't changed his style of editing here. Could you also take actions if needed. Thanks. Torreslfchero (talk) 13:25, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Never mind, user has been indefinitely blocked by JamesBWatson. Torreslfchero (talk) 13:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That was easy. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  13:28, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
Thanks! Go  Phightins  !  21:52, 5 February 2013 (UTC)