User talk:Yunshui/Archive 17

Adoption
Hi Yunshui, I created the page at User:Leafboy222/Adoption page. WHat I would like to do on wikipedia is I would like to fight vandalism on this site. Leafboy222 (talk) 16:11, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Replied on your talkpage. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:24, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks
I want to thank you for your quick response to my request for IPBE. You Don't have to respond back to this comment I just wanted to let you know I appreciate your help. TucsonDavid U . S . A . 14:05, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, I hope it helps. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:07, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Another possible advert only account.
Once again, I have stumbled across what appears to be another advertising account in my quest to bring new users to the Teahouse. User:Cittadini created Cittadini Linens. The similarity between the user name and the name of the company would suggest, to me anyway, that this account is only going to be used for advertising. Incidentally, is there anywhere were I can report these sorts of accounts? Best regards. --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 15:03, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * For blatant vanispamcruftisment, AIV is the best place to go. This is still a sandbox article, but it certainly doesn't look promising; I'll drop the user a warning and keep an eye on their future edits. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  15:06, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Ambassador and MEDRS
Hello there! I was wondering about Education Program:Marquette University/Neurobiology (Spring 2013), and to what extent the professor is aware of WP:MEDRS (also per WP:AFSE). The professor seems to have picked out many articles that fall within the scope of MEDRS, so I wanted to check with you. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 16:11, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That's an odd coincidence; I was just a moment ago emailing her on that very topic. I'm going to be taking a cursory glance over the students' proposed sources this week, but would hugely appreciate the assistance of an editor more experienced with medical sources looking over them too - was that the sound of you volunteering, Biosthmors? If so, you'd be doing us a great favour... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  22:30, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Great! One easy (but not fullproof) way to check is with PMID numbers., when you click to see publication types says review. Recent reviews are a great WP:MEDRS. I can help further. Email me? Biosthmors (talk) 02:48, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Unblock
FYI: I have unblocked User talk:UCRealEstatePR to CHU following what seem to me satisfactory assurances on his talk page. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 22:20, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * If you're satisfied, I'm satisfied; appreciate you letting me know. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  22:32, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

NATASHA DUARTE
If the reason given for deletion was G11: Your article read like an attempt to promote or advertise the subject. Wikipedia is not a promotional medium. If the text of your submission would not have seemed out of place on the subject's CV, website or press releases, it was probably inappropriately promotional. You may also have included inappropriate external links to the subject's website(s). It's possible that you are the subject of the article, or that you work for or otherwise have a close connection to it. Before resubmitting the article, you should read the following: Words to watch, Don't write an autobiography, Advertising, Conflict of interest guidelines and Wikipedia is not a soapbox. '''You deleted my page NATASHA DUARTE reason above. How does Delta Goodrem, Selena Gomez, Justin Biener create their pages - is that not a biography too. My daughter is a POP sansation in Australia and I just wanted to create a page like Delta Goodrem etc. Please help me.

Could you please delete my page in its entirety so that when people search they dont see this page is nominated to be deleted, its embarrassing.''' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Natashaduarte (talk • contribs) 09:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Cabe6403 has already given you a slew of good advice in response to your message on his page; there isn't much I can add. In brief, Wikipedia is not here to help you further your daughter's career. Delta Goodrem, Selena Gomez, Justin Beiber etc. did not create their pages - pages were created about them as a result of them being internationally famous celebrities, who have been the subject of considerable coverage in multiple press sources, books and magazines. Such pages are encyclopedia entries, not a means of promotion.
 * If Natasha meets the criteria at WP:MUSICBIO, she might be worth having an article on - you, however, are evidently far to close to the subject to create such an article objectively, and so you should leave it to other editors to write it. You can make a request for an article at this page. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:52, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Congrats... You helped keep Teahouse an awesome, welcoming, safe, and helpful place!
Hey Yunshui. Just wanted to make sure you saw this response to one of your answers:


 * Thanks a lot Yunshui 雲‍水, that was a fast answer! I'm glad to read words from real people, I always thought Wiki was about writing and reading alone. :)

The impact you're having in the Teahouse is just awesome. Can't thank you enough. Ocaasit &#124; c 18:00, 19 February 2013 (UTC) 

Thomas Steinbacher
Why did you delete my page on Thomas Steinbacher, man... I can't type and do all the research in like 3 minutes. The guy is a businessman (the CEO of a multi-million dollar company), entrepreneur and the owner of a pro cycling team (Team Graner-Stradalli). I was just about to add some stuff about his charity work and wham! the page was gone. Do I need to write the whole thing offline and then upload only when it is complete. Come on... I thought Wikipedia was all about gradual improvements, but I can't even get the page started. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garysims (talk • contribs) 13:23, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I deleted it under A7, since it didn't make any case for the gentleman in question being important or significant. I'll restore it to your userspace for you so that you can carry on working on it. Bear in mind that you'll need to add multiple, reliable, independent sources containing significant coverage of the subject before it can be returned to article space. I'll userfy it at User:Garysims/Thomas Steinbacher; expect to see that link turn blue in a few moments... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  13:27, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks... How do I get it out of userspace once it is more complete with sources etc? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garysims (talk • contribs) 13:32, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * One of two ways - I would suggest using the "Finished? Submit the page" link in the template I've added at the top; this will list the page at Articles for creation, where a reviewer will check it over before moving it into mainspace. Alternatively, you can move it yourself via the move tool, but this runs the risk of seeing it deleted again if you haven't made sufficient improvements.
 * If you like, you can ask me to check it over and move it for you, to save you waiting on the (usually backlogged) Articles for creation process; just leave me a note on this page. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  13:36, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar
Thanks you for the barnstar! It felt nice to be recognized. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 15:08, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You're welcome; it was well-deserved. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  15:13, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse Birthday
Hi Yunshui! We are having some birthday celebrations as Teahouse turns 1 year-old next week. As one of the most active and passionate hosts we have, I was wondering if you might reflect a bit on your experience at the Teahouse and how you view its role in the community. I'd love to have your responses to any of these questions, possibly for a Wikimedia Foundation blog post which will run on the big day.


 * 1) How did you find the Teahouse?  What were your first impressions?
 * 2) What do you like best about the atmosphere at the Teahouse?
 * 3) What experience, interaction, guest, or host stands out for you as a highlight?
 * 4) How has the Teahouse enabled you to empower other editors?
 * 5) What do you hope for the Teahouse as she continues to grow up?

Thanks so much for your awesome contributions to the project. Really a pleasure to see. Cheers, Ocaasit &#124; c 20:28, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Happy Birthday to, er... us? To save space on this page I've created a subpage with my answers; it's here. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:57, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 February 2013

 * Read this Signpost in full
 * Single-page
 * Unsubscribe
 * EdwardsBot (talk) 20:53, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry case
Your name has been mentioned in connection with a sockpuppetry case. Please refer to Sockpuppet investigations/JoshuSasori for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with the guide to responding to cases before editing the evidence page. elvenscout742 (talk) 01:43, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Obviously you aren't under investigation yourself. Just I mentioned your name in my comment and I figured I should let you know. If you want to post a comment I'm sure it would be welcome! elvenscout742 (talk) 01:43, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up. I'm not sure I have anything much to add; the evidence is pretty solid. I suspect checkuser will throw back a confirmed connection. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:01, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

WOuld you please comment?
So we have COI and paid editing issues, []. I requested page protection due to Katie Fisher being a PR worker for Bill Browder and whitewashing the article or adding straight POV edits []. If you note the use of the word we and a simple google check [] shows this. I unfortunately think that blocking this editor will not solve the problem as another meat/sock will just pop up but comments and opinions would be very helpful. I'm not sure exactly why they think I have any connection to the subject other then the fact I'd like a neutral article []. I guess they neglected to look at my userpage, or even my contribs lol. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 09:21, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks to me like you've pretty much nailed it as regards the POV editing and meatpuppetry. I do, however, share some of Katiefisher's concerns with regards to the Criminal charges section - as a non-Russian speaker I can't really assess the sources, but the claims made need to be very soundly sourced to comply with WP:BLP: I would normally expect to see sentence-by-sentence citations for a section like this, rather than end-of-paragraph ones. There ought to be English-language equivalents given the profile of the case, and they would tend to be preferred per WP:SOURCEACCESS. There's also some slightly dubious wording in the first couple of paragraphs of that section: "sophisticated tax evasion schemes", "tremendous tax breaks", "may have bribed" and so on.
 * More importantly, as far as I can tell, Browder has never actually been convicted of a crime; per WP:BLPCRIME, therefore, this section accounts for a far higher proportion of the article than it should. At most, there should be a few lines noting the charges in as neutral a manner as possible and possibly covering Magnitsky's imprisonment and death. If Browder is convicted, then the section can be expanded, but Wikipedia's standard practice is to downplay criminal charges against living people until a conviction is secured. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Normally you're right, The only reason why it is there now is the face that it is covered in two centuries. This is also why I brought this to ANI to make sure it is presented nuetrally, I left that particular page for a while because my temperament sometimes get the better of me but I would note that other editors have now engaged in attempting to pare it down to size[]. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 10:07, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Request to unblock accounts
I, Sunny Singh (DAV), read your E-mail, but I am still confused why someone is not unblocking the accounts of users from this computer. I have already mentioned everything clearly, then, what is the problem ? I (on the behalf me and other users from this computer) want you to unblock our accounts as soon as possible. Thank you from me and others users. 106.212.108.159 (talk) 10:26, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I've asked you a couple of times for clarification, but since you didn't respond, I closed the email ticket. Since your account is still blocked for sockpuppetry, your message above constitutes block evasion, and I have blocked the IP accordingly. You may email me or use the UTRS system again to request an unblock, or do so on your talkpage, but you will need to address the following issues:
 * Your abuse of multiple accounts (User:Sunnysinghthebaba and User:Sunny Singh (DAV)).
 * Whether multiple users are active on the User:Sunny Singh (DAV) account.
 * What IP address or range you wish to be unblocked, and why.
 * Which other user accounts you believe to be affected.
 * Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Alex Goot Deletion
Hello, I recently sent in a request to have a page belonging to an artist I represent named Alex Goot reinstated, you were the most recent editor to flag and remove the article so I wanted to forward my request along to you in hopes of maybe expediting the process. I appreciate your time, and look forward to resolving this issue. Please see below for original message

"Hello, I represent an artist named Alex Goot, owner and primary contributor to the very popular Youtube.com/Gootmusic channel. In addition to accumulating almost 1 million subscribers on YouTube, holding several top 100 spots on Worldwide channel ranking lists, Alex has helped to launch the careers of several other artists and groups whose wikipedia pages have been deemed relevant. Alex has also won an MTV award for his videos (see http://www.mtv.com/photos/o-music-awards/1662701/6080293/photo.jhtml#6080293 ) and was recently nominated for a Streamy award for best Original song (http://www.streamys.org/nominees-winners/3rd-annual-nominees/ ). Alex is constantly on the road, and sells out venues across the world. We'd like to request that Alexs Wikipedia page be restored, being included in Wikipedia is a point of pride for artists like alex, and we feel that we owe it to ourselves and to Alexs fans to get his page reinstated. Thank you very much, if you have any additional questions or require any information on my end feel free to contact me at thank you" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikeferri (talk • contribs) 19:24, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I have never edited nor performed any administrative actions on the page Alex Goot, so I've no idea why you're bringing this to me. Since it was deleted via consensus at a community discussion, you will need to file a request at the deletion review board in order to get the article reinstated. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  21:57, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

DegenFarang
In addition to telling you to suck him, DegenFarang's IP address left this psycho message on my talk page. Please also block his IP, and if you have the admin ability, hide that message. 2005 (talk) 23:49, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 23:59, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. 2005 (talk) 00:04, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Cheers Writ. 2005, that looks a hell of a lot like a real-world threat to me; if you're at all concerned, you can contact [mailto:emergency@wikimedia.org emergency@wikimedia.org] - the Foundation will offer its full support should you choose to report the incident to your local police. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:04, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a different IP to the one Degen used when telling me to self fornicate here, btw. Given the above, I don't fancy his chances of ever being able to edit the encyclopaedia again. Ritchie333  (talk)  (cont)   09:13, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * And this from the editor who considered "get a life" to be the height of incivility... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:21, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the emergency info. Fortunately the person knows less than he thinks he knows.  FYI, just to make it more odd, a simple google search reveals the person uses the same alias on websites (and gets barred on them), and his real name is easy to find.  So making public threats like this makes any police work a snap. 2005 (talk) 19:43, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Oops - thank you
Hi Yunshui. Thanks for deleting Articles for deletion/Madura Station (2nd nomination). I blame WP:TWINKLE/Server lag/The Illuminati for the addition of a duplicate AfD. It can't possibly have been a mistake on my part - after all, I've got 30K+ edits. Truth is, it was a newbie mistake on my part. I should have known much better. This is just between you and me, OK? < --Shirt58 (talk) 08:55, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Your secret is safe with me. On receipt of an appropriate "gift", of course... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:18, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Yoga pronunciation issue
No clue how it got there, but get there it did — PinkAmpers  &#38;  ( Je vous invite à me parler )
 * Thanks a lot PinkAmpers  for bringing it back! I don't understand what happened. I've never known that page! There must have been an accident, an inadvertent mistake. Thanks again! therash09
 * There are various glitches in the MediaWiki software that just use the Main Page as a default. (Try clicking : or, for example.) Might've been one of them. — PinkAmpers  &#38;  ( Je vous invite à me parler )  00:14, 17 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Yea! Must've been one of those! --therash09 (talk) 19:31, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Yunshui! I've added content on Yoga Talk page, regarding the matter. Kindly address! --therash09 (talk) 17:35, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Replied there. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:06, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thankyou so much for continuing with the discussion, even though it may be appearing irrelevant to you. I am very grateful to you for your support! I've posted a very long content this time and am hoping that you'll go through it. I'll try not making long posts hereafter, and have therefore explained the most part in this post itself! --therash09 (talk) 19:28, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Posted again! --therash09 (talk) 16:22, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Yunshui! Kindly give your views on my latest posts. I have posted another reference that you may want to have a look at. --therash09 (talk) 05:46, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi! Posted there! Thanks a lot for your efforts all through, mate! :) --therash09 (talk) 22:13, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Charles T. Kresge
You deleted a page on Charles T. Kresge, the discoverer of MCM-41 mesoporous silicas for obvious copyright infringement. The page pointed to contains a biography of Kresge that bears only some resemblence to the page I created and was likely sourced from the same chronological data that I used: his CV. I suggest that this was done in error, that I did not in any way copy the page in question. Furthermore, the copyright that appears on the page clearly cannot extend to information Kresge submitted about himself. I will happily get a letter from him granting permission, if necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chemsciguy (talk • contribs) 02:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You're right, the original source is clearly Kresge's PIRE-ECCI bio. I've removed the most blatant copyright violation once again, although I've left the rest of the draft intact; you cannot copy a chunk of text, change a few words here and there, and claim it as your own work. That's close paraphrasing, and is regarded as a copyright violation. Suggesting that you did not copy the page is, to put it bluntly, disingenuous; the sentence order, phrasing and wording were near-identical. You can use the biography as a source for information (subject to certain restrictions), but not as a source for text. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:23, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

You are missing my point: the material is from Kresge's own bio that he provided me. It is not correctly copyrighted by the sites that you are referencing. Likely the same information he provided to all. I have corrected errors on the bio, but the key accomplishments in chronological order are not as you suggest a disingneous rehashing of the content of other sites. They are a use of the primary work with the authors permission. Even in that case, I have removed and re-edited the information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chemsciguy (talk • contribs) 14:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Unless off-wiki text content has been publicly released under a CC-BY-SA, GFDL or similar free licence, it cannot be used on Wikipedia, paraphrased or otherwise. Kresge may well have given you permission to use the bio, but in order for its text to be acceptable here, it would need to either be clearly labelled with an appropriate free licence in its original location, or released under such a licence in an email to Wikipedia's permissions team. Your word that he says it's okay is, I'm sorry to say, simply not sufficient (and this presumes Kresge wrote the text himself, if he didn't, he most likely does not own the copyright and hence couldn't release it under a suitable licence even if he wanted to). Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  14:44, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I have the original text written my him that he supplied, just as I supply my bio when I give a talk. I assure you he owns the copyright. I believe that I have sufficiently changed and CORRECTED the bio (which erroneously reported the number of issued patents and publications). I will make one more attempt to appease you but see that restating a chronology of awards and service where over 75% of the words are the names of organization, awards or journals is going to look similar no matter how many times it is rewritten. I will also request he send the email. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chemsciguy (talk • contribs) 03:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC) I don't see instructions on the page you referenced for a release declaration of copyright for printed material. What heading should I choose and how do I reference it to this discussion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chemsciguy (talk • contribs) 03:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delayed response, I missed your reply here. If you don't intend to use the text (the lists of awards etc. are, as you say, pretty much impossible to replicate in any other way and so fall outside the boundaries of copyright) then there isn't a problem to address - rewriting his biography, as you have done, is a perfectly adequate solution, and is arguably more desirable anyway. The full instructions for releasing copyrighted materials for Wikipedia's use are here, but I think your edits have fixed the issue already. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  11:29, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, there's no problem with using the bio as a source (as long as there are other independent sources supporting the article as well), and it doesn't need to be released for that purpose. Copyright only becomes an issue if the text in the article closely matches that of the biography. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  11:33, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I take it from your reply that I have now fixed the page to your satisfaction. It still has the pending notice on it. Is there still another reviewer that needs to OK it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chemsciguy (talk • contribs) 15:40, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

User:Ptoone
Hi Yunshui. This guy that we both blocked yesterday is requesting an unblock. Could you pass by their talk page and explain why you indeffed them? (It seems like it was a good call btw, I was feeling lenient for some reason) SmartSE (talk) 15:37, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi SmartSE. I've left a note at their talkpage - basically, they suggested an intent to continue promotional editing in their UTRS request. Cheers, Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

CheckUser
Hello,

I just became curious about it from reading the conversations on User_talk:Ajayupai95 and I am curious as to how CheckUser functions. On wiki, we seem to be applying it almost like it is the Supreme Court, implying it is very accurate. But how accurate is it really? And are there any other ways to figure out who is a sock, and who is not?

Secondly, this user is the third user I have found in recent times (after User:Greatuser and Wolfie13 [Am forgetting the exact name]) who was blocked for being a sock; and were just trying to be constructive while using their current account. Which is curious because our immediate response is to indef-block them, and all they want is to try to be constructive. Does it signal some draconianism in our rules to you?

Cheers, TheOriginalSoni (talk) 16:54, 22 February 2013 (UTC) [Talkback pls]


 * Checkuser is... pretty damn accurate; generally they are able to narrow down contributions to an individual device (rather than an IP), so you can be pretty certain that if a checkuser says two accounts are confirmed as related, that means they were created from the same computer. It's not perfect, and can be fooled; for this reason we consider behavioural evidence quite carefully at SPI. More often than not, it's the behaviour that rings alarm bells: checkuser is just the formal confirmation. It's entirely possible and permissible to block obvious sockpuppets without submitting them to the checkuser process.
 * As to whether our rules are too draconian, that's a longer debate. I'd say that if someone has had their account blocked or heavily warned for, say, disruption or vandalism, then creating another account is a pretty bad-faith move. We have an unblock process if someone wants to start editing constructively; circumventing the process through sockpuppetry is purely disruptive - it peverts the intended course of appeal and evades scrutiny.
 * It's a moot point, really. If I go to a swimming pool which has clear "No running" signs all around, and if I run around the pool and continue running even after being repeatedly asked to stop, I would expect the lifeguards to chuck me out. Wikipedia's the same: there are rules governing the use of the website, and people who repeatedly flout those rules are removed. Whether the rules are "just" or not is immaterial; if you want to edit here, you obey the site's terms and conditions, just like everywhere else in life. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:10, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Unresolved help desk issue
Hi Yunshui. :) I just wanted to make you aware of this unresolved issue at the help desk initiated by Guy Macon. I thought perhaps you might be interested in giving your input. Have a wonderful weekend. --76.189.111.199 (talk) 23:17, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's heated. Can't see the issue, myself (if you find an uncited link with a citation on the linked page (and you think lists should be fully cited) just copy the citation across. Jeez). I've got other stuff to deal with today, but I might swing by and offer an opinion if I think of anything constructive to say. Thanks for the suggestion. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:14, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Jigai, Oda, and Dennis
Hi,

Your contributions at the Tea house and at many other places are pretty awesome. I saw your Jigai comment on somebody's talk page, somebody came to my talk page to do some "grave-dancing", I've just seen your comment on Dennis's talk page, and independently I commented on something else at the bottom of Talk:Yūji Oda. I find it difficult to connect the dots. LittleBen (talk) 13:18, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * A little more investigation suggests that one user was annoyed at his articles being moved by another editor without any discussion, when the editor that made the moves had not contributed to the articles in any way, examples: Talk:Ryoko Nakano, Talk:Kindai Eiga Kyokai, Taboo (the current name) moved to Gohatto (no longer available). It's unfortunate to see silly arguments spiral out of control and result in people being blocked. Lack of civility is bad, but so is polite interference with another user's work. One of the users admitted that he had already had problems in the poetry area that had resulted in an interaction ban, and so he had moved into the film area. LittleBen (talk) 15:32, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * LBW: Grow the hell up, please. Those articles didn't "belong" to JoshuSasori. Please see WP:OWN. I have contributed far more to Wikipedia than JoshuSasori and all his sockpuppets combined, and probably more than you as well. Please stop assuming bad faith on my part. There has been no "grave-dancing". You have continued to make personal attacks against me, and insinuate that by bringing JoshuSasori's abusive behaviour to the attention of the Wikipedia community I have done something wrong. PLEASE STOP THIS RIGHT NOW OR I WILL HAVE TO TAKE ACTION. I am sick to death of JoshuSasori and his sockpuppets hounding me for the last two months. My first interaction with him was on Talk:Ryo Kase where he started making personal attacks against me for questioning his arguments on an RM. He then started trying to alter MOSJ and made more personal attacks against me and other users there. Please see User:Elvenscout742/JoshuSasori rebuttal for a more detailed account of the early history of our dispute, and STOP THIS MADNESS NOW. elvenscout742 (talk) 15:57, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Additionally, please everyone note that Gohatto was moved by an administrator after a month of sitting in RM, in which everyone but JoshuSasori supported the move. JoshuSasori also had never "worked on" the page. He remove a couple of macrons about three days before I RMed the page, and then opposed the move on bogus grounds, making constant personal attacks against me while doing it. PLEASE STOP THIS RIGHT THE HELL NOW, or I will be forced to take this to ANI. elvenscout742 (talk) 02:00, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Elvenscout, I have no idea what this issue is about (and don't really care to be honest), but why are you shouting at the top of your lungs (all caps and bolding) and making threats? Relax, my friend. You are violating WP:SHOUT. If you believe someone is disruptively editing, then report it at the appropriate noticeboard. I don't know you, but I see that you just got off a block a few weeks ago and I don't want to see you getting banned again. You should go enjoy a bowl of ice cream or watch a good movie. That'll cheer you up. ;) In any case, Yunshui is an extremely calm person and all this rage on his talk page wouldn't be good for him. Haha. So if you feel the need to continuing screaming, you should do it on your own talk page, not someone else's. --76.189.111.199 (talk) 06:06, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I apologize for WP:SHOUTING. I am just getting very tired of the above user making veiled personal attacks against me. He is trying to re-write the history of what happened between me and JoshuSasori, a user who has been harassing me for over two months (through sockpuppets, since his main account got blocked in January for making real-world threats). LittleBenW agrees with JoshuSasori on the use of diacritics in Japanese articles, and disagrees with me. This is why he has spent the last week or so going around numerous places claiming that in fact JS is a martyred saint and I am the one who harassed him to the point where he had to call me names and threaten me (and call about a half-dozen admins names too). Ironically, all of this is in violation of a topic-ban LBW is under -- he is currently blocked for having made several dozen edits relating to diacritics during this time. When I offered him peace, he made another veiled personal attack, implying that it was my fault JoshuSasori got blocked twice (check his talk pages and subpages for the phrase "it takes two to tango"). Honestly I am not really interested in discussing these personal attacks anymore, since the current topic ban should keep him from harassing me anymore. (He has made somewhat WP:POINTy-looking comments on unrelated discussions about hyphens, etc., but given that he is obviously opposing me solely because of my stance on diacritics the ban should keep him at bay.) elvenscout742 (talk) 01:48, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Additionally, I need to clarify this for the record: while LBW is currently under a block for a consistent pattern of disruptive behaviour, I was briefly blocked for purely technical reasons. I unknowingly violated an "interaction ban" by accidentally editing the same page as a disruptive editor. When I appealed the ban Yunshui and numerous others unanimously voted to lift my ban, and place that disruptive editor under a broad topic ban and interaction ban as a result of gaming the system by getting me blocked. I really don't want to ever mention that editor again, but having a block on my record will apparently force me to describe the events surrounding my entirely technical block that was not placed on me for being disruptive. elvenscout742 (talk) 01:56, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Elvenscout, I have no doubt that your only intentions are to help improve the project, and I commend and thank you for that. However, it is very important to realize that there will always be editors who you believe to be very disruptive or just generally annoying. Therefore, you should never allow your interactions with them cause you to post raging comments on talk pages or other discussion forums, especially the talk pages of other editors. Just stay relaxed, cite policies and guidelines, and then, if it becomes necessary, calmly report or discuss the matter at the appropriate place. If an editor has truly done something wrong, the diffs will prove it. So there's never any need to shout. It will certainly not make your case any stronger; in fact, it can cause other editors to focus on your behavior instead of the issue at hand. I believe the reason Yunshui has earned such a great reputation is because he's always so calm, friendly, and professional in his dealings with other editors. Even the difficult ones! ;) It isn't easy sometimes, but it's the best way to go... for your health, your happiness, your editing, and your wikireputation. So I hope you will please relax and make editing on Wikipedia an enjoyable experience for yourself. I wish you all the best. --76.189.111.199 (talk) 07:30, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The above is pretty sound advice, I don't have much to add. I realise that you're pretty frustrated, Elvenscout, but as I've said before, just about everyone in WikiProject Japan knows about the JoshuSasori issue. I think it's safe to say that the majority of us (even those, like me, that don't always agree with you) are sympathetic, and so you don't need to mount an elaborate defence every time the events are raised. Stay calm, rise above, etc. etc. Going into every discussion with your kabuto strapped on is not going to encourage polite and collegial debate: you'll just end up getting into fights.
 * LBW, don't poke the bear. If you disagree with Elvenscout over the use of diacritics (or anything else), that's what you discuss with them, not their interactions with other editors. Comment on the content, not the contributor; you should know this by now. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:34, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yunshui, Anon, thank you for you sound advice. I will try to implement it from now on. (And for the record, LBW is not allowed discuss diacritics with me or anyone else. I realized a bit late that every single interaction I had had with him was blatant TBAN violation.) 聖 ( 会話/投稿記録 ) 08:50, 25 February 2013 (UTC) (formerly known as Elvenscout742)
 * Whoops, missed that. Well, that pretty much resolves the problem, then. (By the way, whilst I think your new sig is cool (well, I would, obviously!) you might want to read WP:NLS.) Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:54, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Talk page access of blocked editor 71.226.19.183
A few days ago, you blocked User:71.226.19.183 for 3 months. He or she is now abusing his or her Talk page access. Can you please block that access, too? Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 18:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Done; I've also removed that rather nasty statement from the edit history. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:43, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Rollback
Hi Yunshui, I respect your decision not to give me rollbacker rights on the grounds im not experienced enough with antivandalism, but if you don't mind if I am deemed not experienced enough how does someone like this (User:Jackson Peebles) qualify? With less than 100 edits to the mainspace I dont see how he managed to gain antivandalism experience superior to my own. Again, I respect your decision and im not trying to sound all upset or anything, just wondering, Thanks!  ★ ★ RetroLord★ ★  10:17, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't grant Jackson Peebles' request (I believe it was Wifione, so you may want to ask them for clarification). Jackson does have over 400 edits in total, many of which are to his CVUA course - whilst CVUA isn't a shortcut to rollback, completion of the course is often factored in to an admin's decision. Please be aware that rollback really isn't that special (you pretty much get it for "free" with Twinkle anyway), and lack of it has no bearing on the quality of your contributions (which, to the GA field in particular, are generally excellent). If you really want to use the tool (for Huggle or STiki, say), it's not that hard to obtain: just concentrate on using Twinkle to revert vandalism for a couple of days and you'll rack up enough edits to demonstrate competence easily. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:26, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification then, much appreciated.  ★ ★ RetroLord★ ★  10:27, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem. I look forward to pimping your userrights on your next attempt. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:29, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Request
Thanks for blocking the vandal Athomasm. Can you also please delete this? It was also created by him.  ~ satellizer ~ ~ talk ~  10:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It's gone. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:27, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Help (yet again!)
Hello Yunshui, I'm not too sure if I've done the right thing or made matters worse and/or more complicated! I've been trying to help this new editor and noticed they had an AfC declined. When s/he left a message on my talk page last night, I felt they were becoming confused with talk pages and trying to rectify problems with the submission (I was certainly confused when I looked at the page here!) so I took the initiative of jumping in and creating a new sandbox with a cleaner copy of their proposed article in it. If you get the chance, would you mind making sure what I've done is okay? Is there a better way I could have done it? as always, I'm pestering one of the busiest people around but that's what happens when you are so patient! SagaciousPhil  -  Chat  10:35, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * There's a little bit of attribution squiffiness as a result, but that can be handled (at present, if someone was to move the sandbox page into article space it would be you, not Final4one, who would be credited with its creation, creating a copyright violation). The fix is fairly simple, fortunately: all you need to do is copy-and-paste (not move) the sandbox content back into the AFC, overwriting the content that's already there (you should leave the declined submission templates and the comments at the top, though. The resulting page history will show you making your changes, but will retain attribution to Final4one for their edits.
 * I'd suggest you ask Final4one if they're happy with this, and assuming they are, go ahead and make the change. There are still a number of problems with the sandbox version (Wikipedia articles used as sources, some duplicated refs, the sourcing generally isn't fabulous), but that's all fixable at the AFC draft. Generally it's not a great idea to have both a sandbox and an AFC on the go simultaneously, since it can cause confusion in the attribution of the final article (not to mention bewildering the writer and any editors trying to review the page!), so in future I'd suggest editing the AFC directly after consulting with its creator.
 * Thank you for helping out a new user; always good to see them getting a hand! Cheers, Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:50, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Yunshui - as soon as I pressed the save button I had the sinking feeling I had got it wrong. I have now asked for the new page I wrongly created to be speedy deleted (using the template) and amended the talk page messages. I hope I haven't now made it even worse! (Wow, as I'm typing this it has already been deleted!) Sorry for being a pain.....
 * I did try the reflinks tool a couple of weeks ago but ended up just manually updating the bare URLs instead! I also have ProveIt loaded but again, my mind doesn't seem to work in tandem with it! Just plain laziness on my part - it feels quicker for me to type up the refs than trying to come to grips with shiny new tools!  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  12:28, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Problem solved, then! I know that sinking feeling only too well - usually I get it just after deleting a page. There's nothing more embarrassing than two consecutive log entries showing one has confidently deleted and then sheepishly restored a page in the same thirty-second window...
 * It took me ages to get used to using ProveIt, Refsegregator, Reflinks etc. and I still do most of my referencing "by hand", so to speak. The one automate ref tool I do use pretty regularly is the Google Books converter; that's an incredibly useful bit of kit (so much so that I made a userbox for it to make it more accessible from my userpage). Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  12:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Now that is a really nifty piece of kit..... sneaks around the back and surreptitiously copies user box for it...  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  13:47, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

payingtoomuch.com
Hi there,

I created a page for payingtoomuch.com but it was promptly deleted. I understand that I need to put in reference material (Which I have). Did try to do this but I struggled to get the links formatted correctly and was looking for someone to help me with this.

I was adding this page because the website is comparable to the other uk price comparison websites listed in this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_comparison_service and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Price_comparison_services.

Can you give me any advice on how to improve this article so that it does not get deleted in the future?

Thank you

Nial — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nialdavies (talk • contribs) 14:51, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You will need to add references to multiple, reliable, independent sources that cover the subject in some depth. The website itself and those of other companies run by Mr Ward are insufficiently independent; what you need are newpaper articles and reviews (not press releases), coverage in books, reviews by major players in the field such as Martin Lewis and so on. I'll restore the article to your userspace for you to work on; you can find it at User:Nialdavies/Payingtoomuch.com. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  14:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, FYI moneysaving expert is owned by moneysupermarket so it cant really be called independent. Thanks though, I'll work on it, hopefully I can get the references formatted correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nialdavies (talk • contribs) 15:07, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "Independent" in this case means "independent of payingtoomuch.com". Unless PTM is also a moneysupermarket subsidiary... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  18:46, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Sania Nishtar
Would you be so kind as to restore Sania Nishtar into my userspace (preferably User:Mar4d/Sania Nishtar) so that I may work on it and fix the issues? As far as I remember, the original version of the article was in good shape and had no copyright issues and the other mess that generally came along later. If it is not possible to restore the article to my userspace for some reason, could you at least tell me the categories which the article was categorised into? That would be helpful. Thanks,  Mar4d  ( talk ) 16:26, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * PS: I'd prefer if you reply on my talk page, as your talk page seems to be unbearably heavy for my slow internet connection :)  Mar4d  ( talk ) 16:27, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Replied there. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  20:54, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Email
Kevin12xd (contribs) 01:44, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Notability opinion.
Can you look at this company Felda Global Ventures Holdings and give an opinion on their notability. There is a link on the talkpage to regarding notability but teh link doesn't seem to help it's case much as this seems to be routine coverage. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 09:05, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely not a candidate for A7 (being the second largest public share offering in the world is a pretty clear claim to significance). A lot of the sources in Brian's link look like press releases, but I think there's still enough there to scrape past WP:CORP. I wouldn't like to speculate on the result of an AFD, it could easily go either way depending on who showed up to !vote - those arguing deletion would point to the paucity of independent press coverage and the high proportion of press releases, those arguing Keep would claim there's sufficient coverage. I'd probably be a weak keep !vote, myself. Their current fall from grace suggests there'll be more media coverage in future, so I suspect that this article could well have some traction in the coming months.
 * No harm in sending it to AFD if you wish; as I say, it could go either way. Were it my decision, I probably wouldn't bother, but I've no objection if you feel it's appropriate. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:17, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That's why I was asking, thanks! Hell In A Bucket (talk) 09:44, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Essays at AfD
Didn't mean too, but sure is getting interesting. Lol, Yunshui versus Amadscientist, 2013. Doesn't hurt to debate once in a while, yeah? ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 11:13, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Reads like a close fight to me. So, you're the proposition and he's the opposition? Good, continue the points. ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 11:16, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I think WP:PGL is a good read. ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 11:19, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You know, A material madscientist and I aren't two beetles that you can put in a bottle and shake to make them fight... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  11:20, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * and to be pedantic... He's amadscientist. ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 11:28, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Oops. Sorry, AMS. Illustrious company to be confused with, though. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  11:32, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Cos... You are human, aren't you? I meant, could you continue the "debate" here, like you suggested. ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 11:26, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd certainly prefer that, the Teahouse really isn't the place to hold such a discussion. No comment on the accusation of "human". Woof. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  11:30, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, agreed. I was thinking this is an interesting topic to ask an admin. Funny, to think a male non-human sells books, is an atheist, practices martial arts and parents two kids. And yes, playing Go. My favorite too. Pity I'm a human who's allergic to dogs. :D Cheers, ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 11:35, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, since you asked an admin (and since I'm not at the Teahouse, and can therefore give my own opinion): My take is that the usual hierarchy of rules (policies trump guidelines, guidelines outrank information pages, infopages are better than Wikipedia essays, WP essays overrule user essays) is a bit of a simplistic way to view the system. In a deletion discussion, for example, it's common for the overarching deletion reason to be an appeal to either WP:NOTE (guideline) or WP:NOT (policy), and the discussion comes down to whether or not the article meets one of those two rulings. During that discussion, though, there may be numerous specifics which are better addressed by appeal to essays, since NOTE and NOT are, by their very nature, highly generalised. Thus we have pages like WP:MANOTE or WP:GHITS, which, whilst not policies themselves, serve to elucidate and specify certain aspects of the general rules. Depending on the circumstances, these may be more or less relevent to the discussion than the actual policies themselves. Having said that, I'm totally in agreement with AMS that simply linking to these wikiacronyms is not an appropriate arguments - if you think a subject fails WP:MANOTE, your deletion !vote needs to explain why you think he or she doesn't meet those criteria. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  11:48, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, thanks; I am more enlightened now. You seem very learned on essays I myself have not heard of till today. ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 12:34, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Though AMS seems to have gone MIA. Conceded his case, I guess? ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 12:36, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * He may have just concluded that it wasn't worth following up; it's a pretty minor disagreement in the grand scheme of things. It's also important to note that this isn't a case of one of us being right and the other wrong - we have differing opinions on the interpretation of the rules, and neither one of us is necessarily correct. AMS is a well-tenured editor, and I respect his opinion, as well as his right to disagree with me - he can assess AFDs his way and I mine, and the world will continue on its axis without noticing... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  12:52, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

The Complete Works of William Shakespeare
I saw your comment at User talk:Theaterproject2013 regarding The Taming of the Shrew, may want to have a look at User talk:Tha Taming of the Shrew, I am not quite sure what is going on here, or if you had sorted if there was a class project of sorts going on. --kelapstick(bainuu) 22:23, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I haven't been able to establish that it's a class project, but the appearance of User:Tha Taming... certainly makes it look that way. I'll have a skim through Special:ActiveUsers and see if I can spot any more badly-spelled Shakespeare from the last day or two, and I've asked WikiProject Shakespeare to keep their eyes peeled. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:57, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

The Teahouse Turns One!
It's been an exciting year for the Teahouse and you were a part of it. Thanks so much for visiting, asking questions, sharing answers, being friendly and helpful, and just keeping Teahouse an awesome place. You can read more about the impact we're having and the reflections of other guests and hosts like you. Please come by the Teahouse to celebrate with us, and enjoy this sparkly cupcake badge as our way of saying thank you. And, Happy Birthday!


 * --Ocaasi and the rest of the Teahouse Team 22:45, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 February 2013

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