User talk:Yunshui/Archive 20

DYK for Gossaum
PanydThe muffin is not subtle 08:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you !
Hello Yunshui !

Thank you for the warning. I accept it was a wrong tag. Instead I wanted to place the article on references required and not directly for a speedy deletion. I apologise and would be more careful from now. Ghorpaapi (talk) 11:57, 4 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah, fair enough. Misclicks with Twinkle aren't unheard of. In future, though, if you find that you've pressed the wrong buttons and incorrectly listed an article for deletion, the correct course of action would be to edit the page manually and remove the deletion tag (just delete the code on the first line that looks like this: ). Cheers, Yunshui  雲 &zwj; 水  12:01, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for your help - I am changing my name --Recyclebotboy (talk) 12:18, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Glad I could help. Let me know if you need a hand with the name-change process, though I doubt you will. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  12:21, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

A simple request
Hello Yunshui. Let me begin by introducing myself. I'm ChaseAm, and I just started on Wikipedia 3 days ago. What I'm trying to do is update the pictures at ClueBot's false positive page, however, you're required to be autoconfirmed. The pictures are already uploaded on the Commons. I don't think that me getting confirmed specifically for this is necessary, so if you could just add those in, that'd be great! Thanks so much ChaseAm (talk) 14:02, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hadn't realised those images were so old... I've no idea why you asked me to do this (I don't have anything to do with the ClueBot project) but the new images are indeed better and more up-to-date - I've added them to ClueBot's false positive reporting page accordingly. Thanks! Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  06:50, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

content retrieval for Article Sania Nishtar
Dear Reviewer. you have deleted my wiki page "Sania Nishtar" formerly accessible at

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sania_Nishtar&action=edit&redlink=1

The suspected copyright infringement from http://www.sanianishtar.info/pdfs/nishtarcv.pdf is not based on the correct perception. I own the domain and I have donated my copyright material to wikipedia and added a "copyleft" notice on my sanianistar.info site.

please post the content back to my talk pageas soon as possible, so I can proceed with restoring my page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanianishtar (talk • contribs) 05:40, 5 April 2013 (UTC)


 * You've dealt with the copyright issue, which is good. However, you haven't addressed the numerous other problems with the article, specifically the lack of any reliable third-party sources (see WP:RS, WP:V, WP:GNG) and the completely unsuitable tone of the text (see WP:NPOV, WP:WORDS, WP:ARTSPAM). Since you have access to the full text already at http://www.sanianishtar.info/pdfs/nishtarcv.pdf, there's no reason to restore it to Wikipedia - and several reasons not to. The information as it stands is not suitable for Wikipedia, whether it's freely licensed or not. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  06:42, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Ha Po-gyong
Hello! Your submission of Ha Po-gyong at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Could you insert an inline citation for the first paragraph in the 'Life' section, please? Thanks! SagaciousPhil  -  Chat  11:05, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * PS: also there's a DAB link for 'Korean' - I'm not sure which to correct it to, and yes, I know, it's not a DYK requirement.   SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  11:17, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorted, thanks for the review. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  11:35, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You're welcome!  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  11:39, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
Ghorpaapi (talk) 12:55, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

F Charles Brunicardi
Yunshui - thank you for your help and comments regarding the corrections made to the page F Charles Brunicardi. The unsourced and POV banners remain. Could you please advise as how to resolve this last issue? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kelsbury (talk • contribs) 14:11, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Easy - add a load more sources (that are independent of Brunicardi, i.e. not written by him of his employer - newspaper articles, scholarly papers that discuss his work, books that discuss him etc.) and then remove the primary sources banner. The POV one I think can probably be done away with now; it doesn't read like an advert to me. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  14:18, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
Dear Yunshui ! I have submitted the tags and the answers. Please have a look. Ghorpaapi (talk) 14:14, 5 April 2013 (UTC) Ghorpaapi (talk) 14:14, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm actually going offline now - probably won't be back till Monday, I'm afraid. I'll take a look as soon as I get the chance, though. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  14:18, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 01 April 2013

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A barnstar for you!
Thanks Bonkers. Sorry if I was a little curt with you; I've run into issues with this sort of thing before - the ADNB (and the NZDNB) are both widely used as topic sources on Wikipedia, but often people don't add enough information to make the articles keep-worthy, and it irks me somewhat! Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:27, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!
Cheers Ghorpaapi! You're very welcome; CSD's a bit of a minefield until you get the hang of it. Feel free to drop me a line if you ever need a hand. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  09:43, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Adoption
I know that I have been around a while (15,000) edits or so, but I am looking for someone to adopt me and give me good feedback so that I may serve the community better. I remember interacting with you pleasantly last year and was hoping to have a sort of official adoption thing where you can watch over my edits, interactions, etc and tell me where I can improve. I look forward to hearing from you :-) ♥ Solarra ♥  ♪ Talk ♪  ߷  ♀ Contribs ♀ 13:53, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: Congrats on admin! (My vote would have been Overwhelming Support! :-P ♥ Solarra ♥  ♪ Talk ♪  ߷  ♀ Contribs ♀
 * What an odd coincidence; I happened to see your name in a page history only a few days ago, and remember thinking, "Oh yeah, Solarra — haven't heard from her in a while..." Nice to know you're still about. Frankly, I think you're already sufficiently competent that an adoption won't be a huge amount of use to you (most of what I'd tell you would be preaching to the choir), but if you'd like me to cast a casual eye over what you're up to from time to time, I'd be happy to do so. If I see you replacing the Main Page with a huge picture of a kitten, I'll be sure to let you know you did a Bad Thing... I'm also more than happy to act as a go-to guy if you run into anything you can't handle or don't understand, but to be honest, I don't see that happening too often. Yunshui 雲 ‍ 水  14:00, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * :blush: please do, I totally can screw up time to time, but it's under control now! I did have a question though.  Can non-admin types comment and try to help resolve people's issues?  I'm noticing a knack I have for dispute resolution and would like to see about becoming more involved in that part of the project.  Going totally girly here, WIKI MISSED YOU!!!  ♥ Solarra ♥  ♪ Talk ♪  ߷  ♀ Contribs ♀ 14:05, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * 'Course they can. Get thyself over to WP:DRN and pile onto a discussion. Or (if you fancy a gentler start to the process) pick up some of the disputes at WP:3O. Non-admins are just as capable of talking folk down as admins are — better, in some cases. Worst case scenario: they carry on fighting and an admin has to step in with a blockhammer to break things up — if you can avoid that, you've done A Good Thing! Yunshui 雲 ‍ 水  14:10, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * PS. heading off now, so I won't be able to reply again for a bit. Yunshui 雲 ‍ 水  14:11, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Hey Yunshui, please take a look at my dispute resolution post here and tell me if I'm on the right track :-) ♥ Solarra ♥  ♪ Talk ♪  ߷  ♀ Contribs ♀ 07:27, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Crikey, you can't half pick 'em... My mathematical head is in my other trousers, so to speak, but after a (very cursory) glance over the dispute, I reckon you've started off on the right foot. If you could link to some specific sources (rather than Google searches) that support the claim (such as the university maths sites you mention), that would help shore up Marqaz' position.
 * As I read it, you've got two positions here. Marqaz argues, "it's interesting - no other number has this property". Arthur claims that this is not the case; or at least, that the sum of squares >1 is no more special than the sum of squares >2. The key statement in his case is this: Arthur's argument boils down to the question of whether 1 is a trivial number or not. If it's non-trivial, then there's no reason that 85's property of being the sum of two squares of numbers greater than 1 is any more interesting than any number which is the product of two squares in two ways.
 * Fundamentally, though, this comes back to the universal rule of Wikipedia - if reliable sources exist which discuss this property, then it's in; if they don't, it's out. Assuming the sites you've found that mention the property are suitably scholarly, I think you've made a correct assessment of the case. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:49, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

New Article tagged .. please remark
Hello Yunshui !

For the article Majakani as there are no references and the language is indonesian. If I tag it only for asking references and not english and not going for speedy deletion is it a good approach ? IMHO the article is about a fruit in Indonesia and therefore it has notability. Please leave me your remarks. Thanks in advance Ghorpaapi (talk) 10:18, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


 * We certainly don't have a speedy deletion criterion for fruit... I'd say what you've proposed is the sensible thing to do; if you can find source and information yourself then by all means feel free to make improvements. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:29, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

DIplomatic Incident
I've tried to play diplomat here and satisfy the chief complainer, but even after rewriting the entire article and addressing her concerns the user seems to be still dissatisfied. ♥ Solarra ♥ ♪ Talk ♪  ߷  ♀ Contribs ♀ 15:03, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeech. Like I said above, you can't half pick 'em... As I write this, though, it looks as though the dispute is dying down; Katie's struck a lot of her arguments and the two AFDs look as though they should resolve the issues. Your handling of the situation was fine; your comments at ANI were calm, balanced and aimed at establishing consensus rather than "winning". You've done a good job of AGF, keeping in mind that all parties involved actually want the same thing; a reliably sourced article if possible and a deletion if not. The only minor thing I'd take issue with (and it's very minor) is your !votes at the AFD discussions; whilst "per nom" is perfectly valid, is doesn't add anything useful to the debate, and such pile-on !votes will generally be discounted by the reviewing admin. Something a bit more substantial might have been preferable there. Other than that, though, I think you dealt with it much as I would have done myself, which (given that I'm apparently #1, see section below) is high praise indeed... Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:04, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

RevDelete request
Hi Yunshui. I noticed a series of personal attack/harassment edits about a child at Nashua High School North on March 21, 2013. They have been reverted, but can still of course be viewed through the edit history of the article. I did a quick Internet search and the student mentioned in the edits is real; it is indeed a 14/15-year-old student at the school. Whomever made those edits likely did it to bully this kid, and still has the ability to show those edits to others to continue the harassment. Therefore, per #2 and #3 of WP:CFRD, can you please revdelete all eight of the March 21 edits so that this child's name cannot be viewed by any more editors? Thank you very much. --76.189.111.2 (talk) 17:37, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. Please let me know if I missed anything, and thanks for pointing it out! Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 20:14, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 * WK, you're the best. Thank you so much. :) You might want to add your name to CAT:REVDEL list. --76.189.111.2 (talk) 20:21, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 * That's up for debate, but thanks nonetheless. I should, at that; it's one of those things I keep meaning to do. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 20:25, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. :) Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 20:28, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 * No debate from me because any admin who would TPS to take action about those types of edits as quickly as you did is great in my book. Although Yunshui is #1 on my list of favorite admins, you have now moved to near the top of the list. Haha. And I'm glad to see that you added your name to the revdelete list; the admins willing to do those are offering a very valuable service. Thanks again! --76.189.111.2 (talk) 20:37, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice to be #1 at something... Thanks for stepping up to the plate, Writ; your stalking of me is very much appreciated. Although my neighbour says if you don't put the binoculars away and get off his roof, he's going to call the police. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  06:48, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * He's just jealous. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 13:18, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback message from Tito Dutta
Tito Dutta (contact) 07:53, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 08 April 2013

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Siddharth Narayan
Hi Yunshui, You declined the protection request for some days ago since there were no source(s) for his birthdate. I have now added a source. Could you take a took and take actions since IPs and new users have been rapidly changing the birth year. Tolly 4  bolly  12:39, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough - I've silverlocked it for a month; let me know if they reappear after the protection expires. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  12:53, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help. I will either let you know or request it on WP:RPP. Tolly  4  bolly  12:55, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback message from Tito Dutta
Tito Dutta (contact) 14:18, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Questions about adding "Garnet Capital Advisors" article
Hi,

I am trying to figure out the best way to go about having an organization, in this case Garnet Capital Advisors (which is mentioned in other Wikipedia articles such as "Loan Sale", "Mission Capital Advisors", etc. I feel as though it would be a great addition to Wikipedia and would like some advice as to best go about it because it seems as though doing it myself might create conflict of interest issues. Any advice/direction would be greatly appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garnetcap2013 (talk • contribs) 20:57, 10 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Garnetcap2013. Before you do anything else, I'd strongly suggest you file for a change of username at this page - your current username doesn't meet our username policy, and you're liable to be blocked if you continue to use it. Not a threat, just advice - obviously, blocked editors don't have much success with creating articles!
 * As far as the company goes, I'm on the fence as to whether an article would be suitable or not. Wikipedia has specific requirements for a subject to be worthy of inclusion ("notable"): namely, coverage in third-party sources. There's a bit of news coverage in Google's archives and HighBeam Research (paid access only), and a couple of books that mention the company, but it seems to be mostly passing references, statements by the company, and press releases. None of these meet the basic requirements for a Wikipedia article; that is to say: in depth coverage in multiple, reliable, independent sources. As one of the top three debt brokers (in 2007, at least), one would expect the company to be as notable as its peers, but no company is considered notable purely because others in its field are.
 * I'd suggest, if you're set on creating the article, that you do so via Articles for creation, allowing other editors to review your submission before it goes "live". Alternatively, you can create it in a subpage of your own userspace (such as User:Garnetcap2013/Garnet Capital Advisors) and ask other editors to review it there (I'd be happy to, if you want). You should restrict yourself to information that has been published in sources that are independent of GCA, although you can use GCA itself as a source for non-controversial claims (such as staffing numbers or office locations). Don't under any circumstances copy text from the company's website or press materials, even if you wrote it yourself, and make sure you maintain a neutral tone; any hint of advertising will get you stomped on!). If you only read one of the many blue links in this reply, make it this one (or maybe this one), since your conflict of interest is the issue that most other editors will raise if you run into any problems. You may also want to have a look at Your first article for some basic pointers. Best of luck. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:27, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for The Indian Princess (play)
PanydThe muffin is not subtle 08:02, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

An Admin/ profi wikipidian in mechanical engineering ?
Hello Yunshui ! I would like to ask you to introduce me to an admin or a profi-level Wikipedian who controls, guides or watches over the articles related to engineering or mechanical engineering specially. As I have recently added the Suggest-bot to my talk page and have a lot of stuff to edit and contribute I would like to discuss it on times with a person related to the field. For the CSD nominations and twinkle I will need some more observation and time till I begin with twinkle again. Thank you ! :-) Ghorpaapi (talk) 10:18, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Some experienced editors I know of who are engineers (or interested in engineering) would be Guy Macon, OverlordQ, David Biddulph, Trident13 and TriiipleThreat. If that's an area you want to get involved with, I'd suggest joining the Engineering WikiProject, where most engineering-related articles and editors are listed. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:33, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you Yunshui ! I guess I am going to contact Trident13 in case he is willing to adopt me or watch over my edits ? Ghorpaapi (talk) 12:20, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Ha Po-gyong
Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:04, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Felix Wilfer
Hi I try to create a page but it got deleted again within 2 days - I am working on more facts.

how can I access this page again? Thanks, Michael — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilfermichi (talk • contribs) 19:05, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The article is currently at AFC: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Felix Wilfer. You can continue to edit it there whilst it waits for review. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:14, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Your guidance and input would be appreciated
Hi Yunshui! :) If possible, can you please comment in a disucssion I'm having on admin Drmies' talk page. I think I may have stumped him, so he's looking for input from others to help us on this matter. Thanks! --76.189.111.2 (talk) 03:46, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You stumped the Doctor? Don't you get a prize or something for that? I don't know what you expect me to achieve if Drmies hasn't got an answer, but I'll take a gander. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:02, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, yes I did. I always expect you to achieve something really helpful. You have a great ability to logically cut through all the details of a complex issue and move it quickly towards resolution. I was actually going to write to you first about this, but I thought you were off for the night. Thanks a lot for your help on this. :) --76.189.111.2 (talk) 07:46, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I was; nothing starts off the day like a massive, convoluted, multi-page move discussion... Haven't even had my coffee yet. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:49, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha. Yikes, sorry I started your day that way! Btw, I've never had coffee in my life. When I was I little kid, I always thought it smelled terrible so that pretty much ended any possibility that I'd ever drink it. ;) 76.189.111.2 (talk) 08:26, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You're missing out on one of life's great pleasures... although personally I do prefer tea. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:28, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The secret to coffee is to put enough creamer in it so that it doesn't taste like coffee. I usually just skip the middleman and drink the creamer straight. Ah, to be young. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 13:46, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The secret to coffee is: don't buy shitty coffee. Or perhaps do. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  13:55, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks a million for shutting down that bungled RM at Talk:Mobile metropolitan area. To be fair to Apteva they were just trying to mitigate what was already a mess, but they ended up just making things much worse. Again, good call.--Cúchullain t/ c 13:36, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I didn't for a moment think that Apteva was deliberately trying to derail the process, but the ultimate effect was to turn lots of small but potentially resolvable messes into one overarching, insoluble übermess... Hopefully a restarted discussion will avoid any similar issues. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  13:40, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Notice
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Johncheverly. Thank you. &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 14:22, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Hwahyejang
PanydThe muffin is not subtle 16:03, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Please.

 * Hi Yunshui, would you please take a look at Mahira Khan to fix that.Thanks.Justice007 (talk) 08:18, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Pending changes accepted; your revert is now the current version. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:21, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Brother Cream
Hello Yunshui: I noticed that you deleted Brother Cream because it duplicates an existing topic, Tsim Tung Brother Cream. First of all, this is fine. The deleted article had several Chinese-language sources in it that would be useful in the existent article. Therefore, I'm requesting that you please WP:REFUND the deleted article to User:Northamerica1000/Brother Cream (on a temporary basis) so I can examine it and utilize the reliable sources. Thanks, Northamerica1000(talk) 14:28, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea. It's done. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  21:25, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it's appreciated. After I'm done with the userfied page, I'll speedy it (probably within a week or so). Northamerica1000(talk) 13:22, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Park Chan-su
The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

CSD question nomination
Hello Yunshui ! I am here to bother you again with my questions. Please have a look at this article Namseoul Gong Hak 2Kan and if I am going to tag it with A7 and also tag it for the lack of notability is it the right tag ? Ghorpaapi (talk) 09:41, 16 April 2013 (UTC)


 * As a building, it doesn't qualify for A7 (which only applies to people, individual animals, companies and web content). Unfortunately, there's also just enough content and context to prevent A1 or A3 from being used as well. I hate stuff like this - it obviously needs to go, but I'm afraid there's no quick way of doing so; your best bet is to either tag it with  or simply delete all the text and replace with   to redirect the page to the main university article. Yunshui  雲 &zwj; 水  09:52, 16 April 2013 (UTC)


 * thank you for the detailed explaination .Ghorpaapi (talk) 09:57, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * My pleasure. Thank you for having the good sense to ask about something you weren't sure of - no shame in that, and I wish more people would do so! Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:00, 16 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Yes I would not like to be condemned for talking a false path, I will prefer to ask you instead. Now another discussion opn this Public Policy and Management Institute (PPMI), when I came across this article in the special pages feed after reading it my reaction was to only remove the advertising language. Nextly I wondered to check the sources instead but and then came across the fact that the text is
 * copy pasted
 * the references and citations do not look to be third party resources but primary resources instead.
 * So tagging it for speedy deletion or nomination for deletion would be the right way? Ghorpaapi (talk) 10:21, 16 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Pretty clear copyright violation of their LinkedIn page - tag it with . Yunshui  雲 &zwj; 水  10:24, 16 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The link of copyvio came of great help as well. Thank you Ghorpaapi (talk) 10:58, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yunshui ! Would you like to give me a short and in brief feedback about todays activity in case you noticed ? thank you Ghorpaapi (talk) 13:53, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Glancing through your edits, it looks as though everything you tagged yesterday was deleted, so you're obviously getting the hang of things. Since you use Twinkle, I'd recommend you go to the Twinkle Preferences panel and tick the box marked "Keep a log in userspace of all CSD nominations"; this will create the page User:Ghorpaapi/CSD log and track everything you nominate there.
 * There were a couple of incorrect tags: Damian matthews should have been tagged G10: Attack page rather than A1/A7 (G10 tags get flagged on the admin dashboard, so are usually dealt with more quickly than other types of CSD); Katzepferds should have been G3: Blatant hoax rather than A3:No content, since it contained text but was clearly nonsense; Icemanism was another G3 candidate, but wasn't appropriate for A1 or A7, with which you tagged it; and whilst it was blatant advertising (G11), Hob khadka was not a hoax, as you tagged it (a simple check of the link in the article would have esatblished this).
 * Overall, then, I'd say you're showing considerable competence in recognising when something needs deletion, but you struggle to define why it needs deletion. It might help to improve your understanding if you have a crack at this (new) CSD quiz; it's a bit more specific than the last one and is designed to make sure you've really read and internalised the policy. All the best, Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:22, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow ! :D Thank you very much for your comments on every tag. Indeed, I expected a similar summary because while tagging those articles yesterday I was sure that they do have extremely low chances of not being tagged for speedy deletion but the reason/explaination why was bringing me to scratch my head. The test looks really good a tough one but I am planning to do it in parts whenever I can find time in the next 2 days. Ghorpaapi (talk) 08:07, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Glad I could help (incidentally, the tags I didn't mention above looked correct, I probably should have mentioned that...). Take all the time you need for the test; ping me when you're done and I'll take a look for you. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:10, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Deletion: Cygnet Infotech article
Hi Yunshui,

I am sending this message after reading the description page of 'Did I delete your page' and it was quite informative. I am not a regular wikipedia author. I clicked on 'Save' assuming save doesn't mean 'Publish' like on blogs. I was thinking of building up the article on Cygnet Infotech(http://www.cygnet-infotech.com/) before publishing it by including text that signifies its importance. This company is the creator of Multiple Software Products eg. TestingWhiz(http://testing-whiz.com/), Opticfocus, M1, etc.

I would like your help to get the creation of this article back on track again.

Thanks, Tushar — Preceding unsigned comment added by Logichulk (talk • contribs) 13:19, 16 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Tushar. Normally I would undelete the page and move it to userspace for you; however, since the content consisted only of the line "Cygnet Infotech is an IT services and products provider. The company was established in 2000, in Ahmedabad, India." you can simply copy-and-paste that to a draft page, and work from there. I'd suggest you create the page in userspace as User:Logichulk/Cygnet Infotech and get it to a presentable state there before trying to put it up as an article again.
 * You should read the conflict of interest guideline, since it appears from your talkpage message that you own/work for the company. Users who have a conflict of interest like this need to be extremely wary of editing (and especially of creating) pages about their company; the FAQ for organisations will give you an idea of the sort of issues that can occur.
 * I also have serious doubts about whether Cygnet meets Wikipedia's inclusion requirements for companies; a (fairly brief) search of Google's archive only found press releases (which, as non-independent sources, are not much use to us) and a couple of passing mentions (which do not provide the significant coverage required by our notability guidelines); searching Highbeam Research came up with nothing (meaning the company has had virtually no exposure in the English-language press). On the offchance, I also looked at Google Books and Google Scholar, Books gleaned a couple of directory entries (useless for Wikipedia's purposes) and Scholar nothing at all. It seems very unlikely that an article on Cygnet Infotech would be retained once created; my advice would be to focus your efforts elsewhere. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  13:39, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Yunshui,

I really appreciate your reply and the time you have put into it. It clarifies a lot of things. I am not the owner of this company but merely an employee of this company. I am not going to contest the deletion if you say so, but please do reflect upon what I have to say and if possible comment back on what you make out of it.

Wikipedia has a full article on a Nation called 'Nauru'(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru) which has but a population of over 9,000. Now, not many people would find this country 'Notable' coz its just an island that chose to be a nation after all. However, for these 9,000 people it matters that they be represented as a separate nation and not get clubbed together with some other islands. What makes Wikipedia truly Global is the fact that it allows regional entities from around the world to express themselves so that people from those regions don't feel that they are isolated from the rest of the world even if their global standing is puny in comparison with the bigger players.

Now this company Cygnet has been around since the year 2000 which makes it older than Wikipedia which started in the year 2001. It has got a staff of around 400 people which for an IT company makes it a Medium sized company rather than a Small sized company. Considering the employees, ex-employees and their family members, other IT guys and other people in this city, the clients of this company, etc, the number of people knowing about this company could be well over 40,000 - perhaps even more than the people who would have heard of the country called Nauru. The precedence given to a Nation over an Organization could be well-meaning in that an organization might try to put in promotional content for profit reasons, but then so might a country try to put 'promotional material' to attract tourism.

What is preventing this company from being mentioned here is simple and that is: Internet Penetration in its region. People in this Ahmedabad city of 5,570,585 are more interested in watching IPL matches and dance shows on TVs or just hanging out with friends than surfing for videos on YouTube. We don't have much of an internet culture here even though the connectivity is available at very economical prices. If people want to find a way to a destination, they will stop and ask a passerby on road rather than look up a Google Map. One could say that Computer illiteracy is high over here coz people enjoy being outdoor more over here than sit in front of the computer even if they have one. Thats their nature. So if you are looking for 'Public Sites' to link to a well-known IT company in this city, its going to be highly unlikely. You looked up Google but Google is based in the US and has even pulled out of notable countries like China. Also, though Google tries to show you a result based on your location, its search results for non-US countries are not up to the mark. Its not truly global as in a place where actual people from those regions are surveyed to ask whether the results shown for those regions are complete and accurate.

Now when Cygnet talks to its clientele which are around the world and have pages right here on Wikipedia too, it can matter to them that there exists a NEUTRAL wikipedia article about this company that is monitored by highly capable and critically-inclined editors like you rather than our company page being the sole descriptor which is ofcourse going to host a heavy dose of self-promotional and narcissistic stuff. Not having a Wikipedia article doesn't necessarily affect a company that has established itself well over a period of 12 years. However, I asked the marketing staff over here why we don't have a Wikipedia page yet(I am Software Engineer here) as I found it appalling even though we are well-known in the region and this is what I got minutes back:

"Hi Tushar,

XXXX from our Marketing Team has tried multiple instances and has the complete history of adding TestingWhiz. It’s not possible to have a separate page until we have atleast 4 public sites mentioning TestingWhiz. "

"We have tried earlier with same result. Too many watchdogs for preventing promotional content"

Now let me tell you...the way these guys must have gone about adding would be the forceful way of repeatedly trying to create the article coz I see their accounts suspended. They just didn't understand the mysterious ways in which this place works!(Like even I clicked on 'Save' not knowing it would 'Publish' the article) Like I said, there isn't much of an Internet Culture here. Consider this is the condition within an IT company in this region. Consider the condition of an average Joe in this city which by the way is the third-fastest growing city in the world and the fastest-growing in India. It means people lack a lot with regards to Internet know-how. However, it doesn't necessarily mean people are idiots and can't argue for their rights when they really want to. Its upto people already part of the Internet culture like you to decide whether they would like to include these new people who might annoy you with their lack of ken regarding the Internet and its ways to begin with but can definitely catch up fast. There will be a start and it will come now or later depending on the attitude of people of other regions from around the world who are already well-versed with Internet. Its upto you to decide whether you want newer people from lesser known regions to join you by allowing them the space to express themselves on a site that aims to be inclusive. For example, right now depending on your response to this post, I'll be able to tell my guys over here either:

"No guys, you didn't try it correctly. I got to know from a friendly editor that this is how its done."

OR

"Yup. You are right fellas. Even the most friendly guy I could find on Wikipedia said 'It seems very unlikely that an article on Cygnet Infotech would be retained once created; my advice would be to focus your efforts elsewhere.'. So lets just create our own wiki for this region where we can put in content that matters to this region as our next product.".

Let me tell you if we do that, I'll definitely contact you to get hired here as a Paid editor for that new wiki coz you seem to be very efficient in running things here regardless of the fact that my article was deleted.

Thanks, Tushar — Preceding unsigned comment added by Logichulk (talk • contribs) 15:03, 16 April 2013 (UTC)


 * You're an employee, so you have a conflict of interest. Also, you have a misunderstanding about what notability is. Notability means you have multiple significant coverages in major reliable sources. Not population, not clientele. That is the definition of notability. You'll need to create any article that you want to (which is going to be highly discouraged to do so about your company) following these steps:
 * Find a newspaper article (or other reliable source), not including interviews or press releases.
 * Put some facts from that article in an article paragraph format
 * Find another reliable source
 * Continue
 * If you do that, and only write facts in a neutral tone, I'm sure your article will be accepted if it is notable. gwickwire  talk editing 15:09, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Man,

Look all I know is I am done trying to create this wikipedia article here. I am a salaried employee and not a stake holder and neither is the creation of a wikipedia article part of my job. Do I have an interest apart from commercial? Ofcourse! Who would like their organization to not have a Wikipedia page especially if its well-known by word-of-mouth! Why would a person who doesn't have ANY interest in a company try to create an article on it? Such idealistic concepts don't work well in a real-world free-market economy that thrives on personal motivation. What can be done is adding REGULATION and CENSORING to the content being added here which I see is already playing its part too well. You definitely don't expect me to create a page on other similar-sized company like say 'Gateway' (who also doesn't have their pages here btw) on which I might not be a reliable authority and in the worst case their competitor who adds false information on them!

Please don't mind my harsh words. They are directed at the overall situation of helplessness rather than you people who I believe were trying their best to help and for which you have my humble gratitude.

If 'Conflict of Interest' questions neutrality of the author, then it would be best if one of the authors/editors or someone who reads this comment someday who doesn't have a 'Conflict of Interest' and still has the time to write about something as uninteresting as a commercial setup and the extra time on hands to contend a 'Speedy deletion' create an article about this company instead. Its Cygnet-Infotech. Remember the name.

Thanks, Tushar
 * Hi Tushar. Unfortunately, in part due to its inclusion criteria, in part due to its demographic, Wikipedia does suffer from a degree of systemic bias in favour of Western subjects. We attempt to counter this where possible (for example, by accepting offline sources and putting together taskforces to address the issue), but the fact remains that if your company just hasn't had the coverage necessary (whether through location, local media conditions or whatever) it won't be included here. That's not in any way a statement on the quality of the company or its products, merely an observation based on Wikipedia's rules.
 * Essentially, everything on Wikipedia boils down to what's been said about a subject elsewhere. If no-one else has written about Cygnet, then we have nothing to write about here. My suggestion, for what it's worth, would be that you list the company at Requested Articles, which will get more editors' eyes on it than a note on my talkpage - it may be that someone will pick up the baton (we do have a large number of Indian editors, at least some of whom I know to be based in Ahmedabad) and find local offline sources that could suppoprt an article. Regards, Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  06:59, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, I should add that the above applies to the English version of Wikipedia, but the Gujarati and Hindi versions may (I can't read either languages, so don't know for certain) have different requirements and would probably be better placed to locate sources - you may want to try creating articles for one or both of them instead. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:03, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Yunshui,

Read the article on Systemic bias and other links you provided and am generally impressed with the amount of effort that people here are putting in to bring in a sense of transparency to the system. Frankly, Wikipedia Systemic Bias is not as big an issue as is made out in that article coz clearly the bias is against people in regions where basic necessities or other things in life matter more than getting a fair share of their content on an encylcopedia. And there are practical solutions to solve it.

Now, there are two ways of going about this issue at hand. One is like you suggested I go ask other editors and try to convince them again to add stuff, request/beg them, play the victim, etc. Neither is it going to make me happy nor you coz basically it was your call to delete that article and you still stand by it according to your rules (which I respect coz I am pretty sure there are valid reasons considering the scale at which this encyclopedia runs). So what you are offerring me here is a sympathetic consolation by asking me to get this article authored by some other editor. Basically you are offerring a compromise that drives both of us towards escaping the issues we both find a bit uncomfortable to deal with.

Now the second approach is this: We stop talking right here and do what we do best. I will try to develop a new product as part of this company leaving the authoring part to you(As clearly I don't qualify as neutral on the topic that interest me here). I'd like to add that the reason that not much was found about this company online is because its products were named differently due to branding reasons. For example, search for the term 'Optifocus' (Practice management software for the opticians) - an older product of this company and I am sure you won't be dissapointed. You might not object if I created an article on it. However, the creation of an article on 'Optifocus' doesn't interest me coz its a dead product.

However what interests me is the fact that your serious hobby of being a wikipedia editor frequently involves looking up various online sources for verification - a repetitive manual task worthy of software automation. Guess what? At the peril of sounding like a salesman(Which I am again not) trying to buy a wikipedia editor(or donate to wikipedia in his own way perhaps), let me tell you that the a product of this company 'TestingWhiz' (http://www.testing-whiz.com/) does exactly that! And soon it will have a free version too. However, whether you like it or not, you are being selected already to get a full version of the new release 3.0 for free which is going to be unvelied in the Star East Testers' conference(http://stareast.techwell.com/). I'd request you to please try it out as I am pretty sure it suits your use-case very well. For example, you would be able to put automated scripts that check for certain content and schedule its execution so that you can monitor them over a period of time. Or perhaps have a script that checks all your sources and generates a report when you feed in your search term. Now depending on your experience, you will be either a satisfied or a dissatisfied user and hence you yourself will become highly qualified to create an article on TestingWhiz meeting all the criterion as you would be:

1. A responsible Wikipedia editor 2. A user of the product and hence a reliable authority 3. Having no conflict of interest whatsover as users are the best reviewers and critics of a product but not associated with it.

Now, at the risk of losing out on a potential long-term customer, let me direct you to a page of other test automation tools right here on Wikipedia --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_automation#Notable_test_automation_tools. Now, as you see...I thought of adding an entry 'TestingWhiz' to the table not really knowing a wikipedia editor's definition of the term 'Notable' in the heading. Then I thought "Ouch! It might look bad if I put something under the 'Tool name' but leave the 'Produced by' blank". Then I thought "Oh hold on...why not link the comapany name to an article on the company to point to provide more information rather than use plain text". Then I created the article with a single line and clicked on 'Save' not knowing that means 'Publish' and before I could add something more meaningful to the article, I got to know what is meant by 'Speedy Deletion'...and thats how I landed up here on your page Yunshui.

So now that its settled who is going to create an article on 'TestingWhiz' if there is ever going to be one, lets come to the next article to be created which was in the original question: 'Cygnet-Infotech'. Like earlier covered, coz the company name seems to have suffered from anonymity because of naming its products differently due to branding reasons, the next product will be called 'Cygnet' itself and will aspire to be the flagship product so that it carries the name of the company along. What it will be is a different story. However, keep on checking your sources every few months to see if the term 'Cygnet' pops up and becomes notable(You can probably use TestingWhiz to aid you automate this if you wish to). DO NOT create the article before that. Because it would be best that not 'someone' but you yourself - the one who deleted that article(rightfully perhaps) - pick the baton when that happens. Add that entry only when it complies with all the rules and regulations and policies that you know. That you know of its presense and the very duty of being a responsible editor that bound you to delete that article shouts back at you to put something on this encyclopedia to inform the world of something worthy and 'notable' that is missing here. And then, you should add two more entries to the list under the words 'A few of the articles I've created, expanded, fixed up or otherwise done major work on' on your user page. Call it wishful thinking on my part but definitely a more interesting and entertaining approach.

Thanks, Tushar

PS: Its easy for you to accept the second solution. Just don't reply on this thread coz frankly neither of us should be interested in talking further on a dead topic which can only be revived with something of a more concrete nature than a mere discussion whether on this page or any other. I really wanna divert my useless aggression to something productive. I really do appreciate your help mind you!


 * ...Words fail me. Did you seriously just try to sign me up to a free trial of your company's product on my Wikipedia talkpage? Thank you, but no.
 * I think it's pretty clear by this point that we are talking at cross-purposes; you evidently haven't understood what I've said at all. In a last ditch effort, let me reiterate this as concisely as I can:
 * Wikipedia only retains articles about notable subjects.
 * Notable, on Wikipedia, has a specific meaning. A subject is notable iff it has received significant coverage (not passing mentions or namechecks) in multiple (two or more), reliable (editorially oversighted and published), independent (not affiliated, related or otherwise connected to the subject) sources.
 * Cygnet Infotech and TestingWhiz do not appear, at this point in time, to have been the subject of such coverage. They are therefore, in Wikipedia terms only, non-notable, and do not merit an article.
 * Incidentally, Optifocus seems to have received enough coverage to be notable - or would have, if you meant the lensed fibre product produced by Corning Inc. or the optical engine technology from Seiko Epson of the same name; I'm guessing, however, that you don't. It comes down to this: if you want an article about your company on Wikipedia, you need to provide suitable sources. If they don't exist, neither does the article. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  13:16, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Yunshui,

"...Words fail me. Did you seriously just try to sign me up to a free trial of your company's product on my Wikipedia talkpage? Thank you, but no."

I don't see anything wrong if our product helps you and helps wikipedia. Helps everyone in short. I am just seeing a use-case right in front of me and staying silent worse than talking about it. If you wish not to be signed up, its perfectly OK with me. I am sorry about writing it on your talk page if it offended you but as per your welcome message: "I will generally respond here to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page " ...so I didn't know where else to write what I had to, being the novice I am anyway.

"Cygnet Infotech and TestingWhiz do not appear, at this point in time, to have been the subject of such coverage. They are therefore, in Wikipedia terms only, non-notable, and do not merit an article."

Correct. I agree to everything that you just said. Give me 1 year and I'll contact you back right here on this page to check if things meet your definitions then.

Thanks, Tushar