User talk:ZZorro

"In the case of MMS, it has always been without evidence because there is nothing that backs up the lies. There is no evidence anywhere showing that MMS does damage."

That's RICH coming from you! Here; I'll give you a quote of your own "IT'S YOUR IDEA THAT I HAVE TO HAVE PROOF. MY IDEA IS THAT I WILL NEVER HAVE "PROOF." I DON'T NEED IT." What's good for the goose?

"They work in groups of at least 4 individuals."

Complete rubbish, we don't work in "groups" at all, we hardly even know each other, or at all in most cases. What we do is called consensus, we each arrived at the SAME conclusion based on the available evidence. Since you don't present any evidence and further claim that you don't even need it, there is no evidence to support your claim. You already lose the argument by default.

"They watch and guard their writings and the minute anyone comes by and tries to write the facts, "

As you have said yourself, you have presented NO facts, so you don't get to have a say on what happens on the MMS page. We don't make articles about people's "opinions", especially YOUR opinion.

"Do you realize the implication of this? It means that probably thousands of people have continued to suffer and even die when MMS could have helped them"

This would be funny if it wasn't so scary! Some people think you are a deluded but innocent old fool who believes this crap, but I'm leaning towards the theory that you know exactly what you are doing. A deluded old fool wouldn't have a PR team writing articles and getting them published on various websites. It's OBVIOUS this wasn't actually written BY Jim Humble him self because the real Jim Humble loves to type in caps and can barely string two coherent sentences together as is plainly evident from his barely legible ranting on the databishop talk page.

"because these few indoctrinated individuals who do not wish people to have the facts"

No one here is indoctrinated, we all make up our own minds. I personally know people who took MMS and it made them sick even after doing detox and even after doing it for several months. I've also now read many stories of people who suffer from diseases who tried MMS and it did NOTHING, I've read many stories about people who took MMS and it made them sick over and over again. The internet is now full of REAL third party testimonials of people trying MMS and it NOT WORKING, not just random people who register on forums and make one or two unverifiable posts to support MMS, I'm talking about REAL people who are known and have histories on forums before MMS and people on youtube who also have been on youtube for years before trying MMS who then tried MMS for them selves and discover it does NOTHING to cure their illness.

"do it because the pharmaceutical companies pay their salary and of course that is the most likely scenario."

Again, just complete garbage, I've never met anyone who ever got paid by a pharma company to post online or on wikipedia. I'd LOVE to get some money from a pharma company, but the fact is, this only happens in Jim Humble's mind and the people he convinces of his conspiracy theories.

"With that title for their article, they start off on the wrong foot -- that is not the correct name of MMS. It should say, "Master Mineral Solution".  "

Miracle mineral solution is what you named it first, then you named it miracle mineral supplement because it makes it sound less like "medicine", now you call it master mineral solution because it's been pointed out that calling it "miracle" anything is ridiculous. Our article doesn't need "fixing" just because you change your marketing tactics whenever it suits you.

"Two Blatant Mistakes"

I'm not going to bother going through point by point through your thoroughly ignorant analysis of the article.. I'll tell you a few points: One is that you actually provide no verifiable evidence for any of your claims, so too bad if you personally don't agree with the sources we've provided, we don't make articles based on personal opinions.

You "say" that MMS turns into chlorine dioxide, where's your verifiable evidence? I've never seen it, have you ever measured how much of it turns into Clo2? How much doesn't? Have you ever tested if there are any other by-products? Have you actually tested what happens if you use distilled water vs tap water? I've not seen the tests except for hypothetical "diagrams" made by you or Hesselink, those don't count, anyone can draw a diagram. What we want is actual verifiable tests with actual measured results. Has a real lab actually TESTED MMS to see what happens and how long it takes to dissipate? If you have lab results, we'd love to see them, but I've never seen such results published, so EVEN your claim that MMS turns into chlorine dioxide is an unverified OPINION for which you provide no proof!

"They don’t mention that those anecdotal reports are in the hundreds of thousands. Any real scientist would know that this many anecdotal reports constitute valuable evidence. "

Again you demonstrate your complete ignorance of science. Anecdotal reports on the internet can be found to support any position on just about ANY subject. Many more people then the supporters of MMS make the claim that the earth is only a few thousand years old, but there's a reason that claim is not repeated in academic literature. It is REAL scientists are the ones who say your claims are complete rubbish because they realize "anecdotal reports" aren't worth the pixels they are printed on. Besides, this claim is another COMPLETE contradiction on your part, on one hand you vehemently make the claim that your "anecdotal reports" should be treated like real evidence, on the other hand you say you don't want or need real evidence, so which is it? You can't have it both ways.

''"If you want governmental proof that MMS is safe to take, go to:  http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/chlorinedioxide/recognition.html.  '""

Well the link is already broken so your conspiracy must be true!! Fortunately there's a cached version of the page. How you interpret it to come to the conclusion that MMS is safe is beyond me! Quote from the page:

''Effects on Humans: Chlorine dioxide is a severe respiratory and eye irritant in humans. Inhalation can produce coughing, wheezing, respiratory distress, and congestion in the lungs [Patnaik 1992]. Irritating effects in humans was intense at concentration levels of 5 ppm. Accidental exposure at 19 ppm of the gas inside a bleach tank resulted in the death of one worker (time of exposure is not specified) [ACGIH 1991]. Workers exposed for 5 years to average chlorine dioxide concentrations below 0.1 ppm but with excursions to higher concentrations had symptoms of eye and throat irritation, nasal discharge, cough, and wheezing; on bronchoscopy, bronchitis was observed in seven of the 12 workers [Clayton and Clayton 1982]. Concentrations of 0.25 ppm and less have been reported to worsen mild respiratory ailments [ACGIH 1991]. Two adults who ingested 250 ml of a 40 mg/l solution of chlorine dioxide experienced headache, nausea, abdominal discomfort, and lightheadedness within 5 minutes of ingestion. ''

What concentration did you say MMS was? Because 5ppm is 0.000005% which can cause respiratory distress and 19ppm which resulted in the DEATH of a worker is 0.000019%. Now I'll quote you in fact you take a 0.00004% solution, so by your very own claims, a 0.00004% solution is MORE THEN TWICE 0.000019%! Further 7 out of 12 workers who were exposed to 0.1ppm over 5 years developed bronchitis, that's 0.0000001% chlorine dioxide: Your claim is that MMS is 0.00004% which is FOUR HUNDRED TIMES the 0.1ppm dose.. So exactly HOW does this prove the safety of MMS?? It proves the complete OPPOSITE!

You keep saying that MMS has been used for 80 years in water treatment and MMS gets used on food, but you are either just lying or clearly have NO clue about what substances are REALLY produced and in what proportions when you prepare MMS! If everyone was eating MMS with their food and drinking it in tap water then according to you no one would be getting sick would they? There might be some compounds in common with MMS and what is used to purify water and disinfect food, but the fact is, those processes are NOT THE SAME as MMS! That claim which you continuously repeat is a complete lie. All you have to do is SMELL MMS being made to know it is not the same thing as tap water or food disinfectant, if my tap water smelled like MMS I would NOT drink it, if chicken from the supermarket smelled like MMS I would THROW IT OUT. All this BS about safety is just a smoke screen for your "real" claims that it is a miracle cure, for that position you have NO evidence, so stop trying to bait and switch the subject, we're NOT interested in your opinion about the safety of MMS, we're interested in EVIDENCE that it cures diseases. You have had ten years to provide a single piece of evidence for that claim. Your claims of curing thousands of people directly contradict your claim that you have no time, money or resources to provide real evidence, it takes very little time or money to compile a verifiable case report if you were REALLY curing thousands of people. So until you do that, go away, your "opinions" here are not needed or wanted. Vespine (talk) 23:58, 10 March 2011 (UTC)