User talk:Zaps93/archive08

Your contributed article, Volareweb.com destinations
Hello, I notice that you recently created a new page, Volareweb.com destinations. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as yourself. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page - Volareweb.com. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will to continue helping improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Volareweb.com - you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

If you think that the article you created should remain separate, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag - if no such tag exists then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hangon tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions.  Dennis The Tiger  (Rawr and stuff) 15:12, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Why on earth is that article eligible for speedy deletion???? Is this a malfunctional bot?? Speed74 (talk) 16:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Zaps, I suggest you go clear this up from the talk page, I'm not experienced enough to know what to do here.Speed74 (talk) 17:03, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Please don't remove speedy warnings
Please do not remove speedy deletion notices from pages you have created yourself, as you did with Volareweb.com. Please use the template on the page instead if you disagree with the deletion, and make your case on the page's talk page. Thank you.

Articles for deletion nomination of My WINGS
I have nominated My WINGS, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/My WINGS. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Technopat (talk) 19:57, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

What actually happened to My WINGS? --MKY661 (talk) 20:02, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

File:Mehrabad Airport logo.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Mehrabad Airport logo.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. &mdash; JohnFromPinckney (talk) 01:46, 21 July 2010 (UTC) &mdash; JohnFromPinckney (talk) 01:46, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Croc Screenshot.png
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"K thanks. bye"
That wasn't very polite. Please see this. It says:

"Edit warring over optional styles (such as 14 February and February 14) is unacceptable. If an article has been stable in a given style, it should not be converted without a style-independent reason. Where in doubt, defer to the style used by the first major contributor. In June 2005, the Arbitration Committee decided that, when either of two styles is acceptable, it is inappropriate for an editor to change an article from one to the other without substantial reason; for example,..."

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:20, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I see you have reverted again. Nice. You told me to see a red link in the edit summary. Please point me to the blue link of your choice. I am asking you to follow the link above, that says your edits were contrary to guidelines. Please respond to that and tell me why you are correct. Thank you. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Here you go - > Calendar date. The only ones which should use MM/DD are Philippines, USA, Canada, Micronesia, Belize and Palau. Zaps93 (talk) 10:40, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * You are citing an article. It even says "For the use of dates on Wikipedia, see the Manual of Style." at the top of that article. We construct Wikipedia based upon Wikipedia's guidelines. Please comment on the guidelines I have cited above. Thank you. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:48, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The guidelines which you linked stated how to present it. As China uses DD/MM/YYYY or YYYY/MM/DD, present as 9 June 2010, etc. Zaps93 (talk) 11:09, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Please forgive me. I don't seem to be able to find it. Could you please tell me which section that is in? Also, please comment on the paragraph I quoted (at the top of this section) from that page of guidelines in question. Thank you. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:16, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * You are forgiven. ¬_¬ . Zaps93 (talk) 11:25, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

That's great. You are not. Please re-read my last comment. You are in breach of the guidelines and are treating this like a joke. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:48, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not treating this as a joke, you came across completely rude then jokingly said 'Please forgive me'.. That's you treating this like a joke! How rude! May I remind you that you too are breaching the guidelines. Zaps93 (talk) 11:50, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * You reverted back originally with the edit summary: "China uses DD/MM/YYYY format. K thanks, bye." Perhaps I misunderstood your tone. Please forgive me if I did. Also, please tell me how I have been rude. I didn't mean to be.


 * Again though, back to the matter at hand, could you please respond to my original concern as stated at the top of this thread. Thank you. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:04, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I linked my response above. I shall relink it. It describes how to write it out. . Regards, Zaps93 (talk) 12:14, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the "Regards". It is appreciated. I hate to argue. I read the link you gave me. That is fine for new articles, or consensus after the fact. But, the link I have cited above says that the date should remain as it was. Changing a long-standing date format is a no-no. What sayeth thee my fellow Wikipedian? Kind regards to you (in a genuinely friendly tone). Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:21, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * My apologies for my behavior, you and I are both editing for the same reason. I see what you mean but to me and other people I have come across, we genuinely prefer that an article use the correct country for where it originates, date format. Can you see where I am coming from? Regards. Zaps93 (talk) 14:10, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad to see you've both found cordial tones for your conversation. I wonder if I might just interject some things? While it's true, as Zaps93 is aware, that an article involving a non-North American country like China would ideally be created using yyyy-mm-dd (per Zaps's linked article), Hainan Airlines was evidently created by somebody who thought the Month day, year (N.A. style) was the normal way to go. The U.S.-style usage was apparently already established by 2008, and was still dominant in April 2010, even after Zaps93 added a couple dates in the 1 April 2010 format.

That being the case, we can look at the basic principle which seems to be guiding Anna. The Manual of Style says, "The date format chosen by the first major contributor in the early stages of an article should continue to be used, unless there is reason to change it based on strong national ties to the topic. Where an article has shown no clear sign of which format is used, the first person to insert a date is equivalent to "the first major contributor"." (under "Retaining the existing format"). As Hainan Airlines isn't really a topic "with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country", it seems you should agree to standardise on the N.A. version that was already present, unless Anna (and the other active editors there) can be convinced to adopt a different format. As to what that other format might be, you'd then have to discuss that anyway, because the article pointed to by Zaps doesn't seem to indicate that DD/MM/YYYY is appropriate for China (it may be, but I don't see it in that article).

I hope I've helped you find further harmony, and haven't inadvertently stirred things up. Happy editing, both. &mdash; JohnFromPinckney (talk) 20:11, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It's ok and I do see what you're getting at, but I still think that articles which have nothing to do with North America should use their own date format. I just believe it is the way to go. North American date format isn't correct and I feel it shouldn't be used on non-North American articles. I had an article changed which I created, using DD/MM/YYYY to MM/DD/YYYY because it was in Canada. Admins agreed with the editor. I just feel the same thing should be done across all articles. Zaps93 (talk) 20:44, 26 July 2010 (UTC)


 * JohnFromPinckney: Thanks for the input. I agree. I actually made a mistake. At the top of this thread, I cited this page, but accidentally included the Dates subsection . I meant to direct Zaps93 to the top of the article.
 * So, considering the article started one way, the old dates should remain. Although that is not Zaps93's position, it is my position, and that of JohnFromPinckney, and, most importantly, the position of the guidelines. It is quite rare for the guidelines to state "June 2005, the Arbitration Committee decided that...". It must have been a contentious issue before.


 * Finally, Zaps93, please, please, please, try to conserve editors' time by dealing in a straighforward manner. And please x1,000, when reverting, provide an edit summary with something other than "K thanks. bye". Please, again, forgive me if I am being blunt. You are a good editor. I've just dealt with Talk:dog meat, so my patience with this sort of thing practically zero. (If you think this was drawn out, see Talk:Kimchi. Holy hornet's nest Batman!)


 * Zaps93, please consider putting back the old dates. If you do, I'll send a special present to your talk page. Happy editing to all. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:30, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Zaps, I hope I was helpful. I know you're unsatisfied with this arrangement, but the guideline's there for a reason, and I think we need to be aware that, even though Anna is the only one complaining about the change right now, all of the other editors who have worked on the article have the right to see the established dates retained. It's to protect the community from a lot of what apparently has been seen as rudeness when one date format (or dialect of English) is changed by a later editor.
 * About Canada, I was under the impression both formats were used there, so articles were fine having either one (as long as it was the same format throughout). I don't know why the dates were changed on you.
 * Now, since you don't like the guideline, the option to recommend is to propose a change of at the Manual of Style. Find the right Talk page and post your concerns there; maybe you can get the guideline changed, at which point I, Anna, and numerous other editors will help you change this article and all the rest which are contrary to the (revised) MoS (okay, we won't do it all on the first day...). &mdash; JohnFromPinckney (talk) 04:10, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks John. I will change it back but I will admit, I am not happy about it. But guidelines are guidelines. Zaps93 (talk) 17:20, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Gift #2:

Apr 10, 2007 2:08 PM subject [Unblock-en-l] Please unblock my account, I must get out soon! Dear sirs, I am a deposed prince from the West African nation of Niger. I use my wikipedia account to help me find foreigners who may help me get my numerous and millions of funds out of country before the government controlled mob in my country can get me. My wikipedia account was unblocked as spamful. If any of you may unblock and help me, I will transfer 200 thousand of american dollars to your bank account, after the completion of a small, 200 dollar account transfer from you to me to prove the account exists. I thank you rapidly for your attention in this manner, Mr. Wikipedia. -Mgumbe

Thanks for changing it back. As promised, your gifts.

I wasn't trying to split hairs for no reason. One date format seems best, just like in Encyclopedia Britannica, etc. A different format just because the article is about a different country never made sense to me. Maybe it is to serve readers from those countries. I don't know. But, you feel strongly about it and I am curious why. If you want to tell me, I am considerate. Maybe you are right. Thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:43, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi All, been following this interesting discussion that's been going on but didn't want to interject and it's good to see an amicable outcome :)
 * I've been around a while to see these debates every so often and there have been technical solutions in the past with custom date formats for editors which have since been removed and things are now left to the guidelines and, importantly, consensus. Anna, you say "one date format seems best". Many people would agree with you (and many won't) but you'll have a hard time to get everyone to agree on which format it should be. Do you go by the most widely used format in the world, the ISO standard, the British format, the American format, etc. ?
 * It is not the case that once a format has been used in an article, it cannot be changed. Like everything in Wikipedia, consensus is the key and valid arguments for change is what is needed to build consensus. The guideline states "If an article has been stable in a given style, it should not be converted without a style-independent reason". If Zaps93 had engaged editors on the article talk page and provided a style-independent reason (i.e. articles about a locality are generally written in the style of that locality) then consensus may be that it is a valid change that will improve the article.
 * → AA (talk) — 11:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Had Zap gone to talk before, or even after the change, and stated a case, I would have been all ears. I still am (but I'm saving up for plastic surgery). Seriously, even now, I'm no bureaucrat, and am really flexible on things. Seek my understanding. Just tell me why you feel strongly about it. As both date formats are acceptable here, (which I'm not crazy about, but can live with), why not the article in question? The original creator is probably long gone. The only people who give a hoot are those with it on the watch list. Best wishes to all. Hope you dug the big plane. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:35, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

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Questions
First of all, are you still active? If so, can you direct me as to what to do with the seasonal Air One destinations, as they will fly for the last time tomorrow - should I remove them from the list, put "seasonally ended" or what? The Summer 2011 tickets aren't available yet so I can't put a restart date or even be sure if they'll start again or not. Regards, Speed74 (talk) 18:49, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

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Heads up
See User talk:119.155.37.141 - the IP appears to be accusing you of sockpuppetry. Thought you should know. Mjroots (talk) 18:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks for the heads up. But that might be difficult of me as I have edited since August! Zaps93 (talk) 09:19, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

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Airways International Cymru destinations
Hi Zaps, I've noticed that you edited the abovementioned article. Could you please provide your sources? Per aspera ad Astra (talk) 11:51, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

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South East Airlines destinations
Hi Zaps, thanks for adding a source to the timetable as a reference for the destinations served. But how do you know that Sharjah and Istanbul are operated as charter flights? Per aspera ad Astra (talk) 19:03, 4 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The previously reference was a route map, and on that route map they were listed as charter destinations. Regards, Zaps93 (talk) 19:09, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

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 * Thank you for letting me know, though I must say I completely forgot. I've been away from Wikipedia for over a year now but I've decided to start contributing again. Regards, Zaps93 (talk) 15:21, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

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Bhoja Air
In this edit to Bhoja Air, why did you revert my edit to the destination table? It was clearly in good faith and I hope your revert was a mistake. I added a "citation needed" tag, removed the redundant country column (which IMHO is unnecessary when all the destinations are in one country), and I also removed the pointless IATA/ICAO codes (which only are recognizable to people in the airline industry, which most WP readers aren't). BTW An IP user reverted your revert of my good faith edit. Please explain why you did this. Thanks, Comp dude 123 00:38, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


 * That was a mistake chap. Didn't realise how far back I actually reverted, was meant to just be removing the pointless edits by an I.P. regarding the amount of aircraft in the fleet whilst still including the one written off in the accident. Zaps93 (talk) 11:02, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for your reply. That's what I thought.  &mdash;Comp dude 123 22:58, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

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correction without correcting reference
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Proposed deletion of First Choice Airways destinations


The article First Choice Airways destinations has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "All original research. WP:BEFORE search turned up no reliable independent sources."

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