User talk:Zerida/Archive 01

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Thank You!
I would like to personally thank you for your constant contributions especially regarding Ancient Egypt. I myself have always been very intrested in Ancient Egypt and appreciate you improving this articles to make others get the most from them.

Sincerly Thank You!

Tutmosis 03:25, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Re merging pictures
To merge pictures, you have to download them, merge them onto a single image and then upload it. I can do it for you if you like, just tell me which pictures you want and in which order. Latinus 11:49, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Druze
I had the impressiont that the Druze were an ethnic group. The UN Census Bureau seems to think they are. (http://www.cidcm.umd.edu/inscr/mar/data/lebdruze.htm)

"The ancestors of modern Druzes were the Isma'ilis, a group of Shi'is, who existed as a seperate ethnic group before adapting Druze beliefs during the medieval period. Although Druze practice encourages members to assimilate outwardly to the practices of the more dominant religious groups around them, the Druze do not allow conversion into or out of their faith and practice strict endogamy." - http://alfred.med.yale.edu/alfred/recordinfo.asp?condition=(populations.pop_name='Druze')

You don't need to convince me that they are not. I don't claim any particular expertise in this area, and I don't even claim any particular *interest* in this area. I was watching the ethnic groups article for other reasons, and just happened upon your change, and it struck me as odd. If you have a good argument for why they do NOT qualify as an ethnic group, you need not express it to me; it's good enough for me that you're satisfied.

Thanks for listening to me ramble....ClairSamoht 04:44, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


 * It can be a little confusing because often times different religious sects or denominations in the ME are taken as ethnic groups. One of the websites you cite lists Sunnis and Shiites as among the main "ethnic groups" in Lebanon. This is the same as saying Catholics and Protestants are two of the main "ethnic" groups in California! Isma'ilis are another religious sect. The Wikipedia entry on the Druze states they are only a religious group. - Zerida 06:00, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Sphinxs nose
Hi - this is a new and interesting twist to the Sphinx nose story (it seems to change often) - is there a source? -- Stbalbach 16:13, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Response

Ancient Egypt
Thank you very much for edits in articles that are related to Ancient Egypt. It is appreciated!
 * &mdash;-- That Guy, From That Show!  (talk) 2006-02-26 23:16Z 


 * No problem, thanks for your note. Will contribute more in the future as time permits. - Zerida 05:22, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Category:Egyptian people
Hi. You have just categorized Category:Egyptian people under Category:Egypt-stubs. May i ask why? The Category: Egyptian people stubs is already a subcategory of Category:Egypt-stubs. There is no need to categorize all the category as Egypt stubs. --Wedian 04:45, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi again. I noticed you removed Category:Egyptian people stubs from Egypt stubs. I think both cat. should be reverted as they were. If you think some articles in Category:Egyptian people are stubs, move them. Just don't categorize the whole category as stubs!!--Wedian 05:16, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I created Category:Egypt stubs myself today because there wasn't one. There needs to be a main category that groups all the subcategories, like every other country. - Zerida 05:27, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. But the Category:Egypt-stubs should group all STUB subcategories (which in this case is Category:Egyptian people stubs), not all the Egyptian people category. Compare with other countries e.g: Category:United States stubs includes Category:American people stubs Not the Category:American people.--Wedian 05:39, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I corrected it, Wedian, thanks for pointing that out! It would be great if we could group all the Egypt-related stubs under that category. - Zerida 05:50, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well. We'll have to create them first:) I've just added buildings and structures stubs. But, as you may have noticed, Egyptian categories are very messy. They need a lot of work. Many stubs don't exist and should be created. Many parent categories don't exist either. Today, I started categories Cinema of Egypt, Egyptian films, Egyptian historians, Egyptian plays, Theatre in Egypt, Egyptian Television, which exist in all other countries. But still other categories and even other articles are needed. Do you know there in no Egyptian cinema article? Some very well-known Egyptian people have no articles or stubs e.g Tawfiq Al- Hakim(a famous Egyptian writer).I have a very long "to do- list". Anyway, it is nice to know that somebody else is interested in Egypt-related articles and categories. Keep up the good work.
 * BTW, when categorizing a category for example Egyptian people stubs under Egypt stubs, write [Category:Egypt stubs|People] not [Category:Egypt stubs] so that it appears under letter P in the parent category (Egypt stubs in this case). Otherwise, all Egypt stubs which start with Egypt or Egyptian will be sorted under letter E(for Egypt).--Wedian 06:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Just in case anyone here isn't aware of it, there is a helpful tool for seeing the categories that exist and how they are related. It does lag behind the current state by a few hours as noted near the top of the page, but it's still very useful and can be installed as a side-bar as well. Here is the Egypt stub tree for example.

I noticed categories being put under stubs (I work with Ancient Egypt mostly) and decided to drop by to see what was going on but it seems that has already been discussed.

Cheers, and thanks for your contributions to Egypt related articles.
 * &mdash;-- That Guy, From That Show!  (talk) 2006-02-28 23:57Z 

Nobiin
Thanks for you comment on Nobiin language; it's nice to know that these kind of articles are appreciated by and useful to others. On a sidenote, I edited the Nubian examples in Sudanese Arabic to reflect how Werner 1987 writes them. Quite interesting to know that the influence has been mutual; Werner mostly writes about the influence of Arabic on Nobiin, not the other way round. &mdash; mark &#9998; 10:39, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The different substratal influences on the Arabic languages is indeed very interesting. It would also be interesting to know what sort of influence the Meroitic language may have had on Nobiin and vice versa, even though little of Meroitic is known at the moment. - Zerida 01:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject:Egypt
Hi.Great idea. I'll be the first to add my name to the interested list.--Wedian 17:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

hey
whats up? do you think i am doing ok with the Egyptian Arabic Swadesh list? and im really curious where do people use the demonstrative /dukha/? Cass-bot

Egypt is treating me well. /dukha/ an influence from Coptic whoa that’s interesting, just a question is it /dukha l-walad/ or /il-walad dukha/?. i've heard dawwat, diyyat and doolat used a lot. I was just thinking we should probably get a more dialectal text example for the main page. do you have any ideas? play script? movie script? political cartoon? everyday conversation? tell me what you think. Cass-bot

Thank you for references
Thank you for providing the ref.s on Egyptian Arabic talk-page; I appreciate it really. Also, today is "Sham el-Neseem"; felicitations; I hope you'll enjoy the bright morning and day. Best, Maysara 08:32, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

...the gods themselves contend in vain.
Hello again. I've noticed a lot of activity on the Egyptian Arabic talk page but haven't taken time to look at it until today. I feel really bad that you have had to take on this Dr amr character alone. It would probably be pointless to join in, since this is an issue "for Arabs and Egyptians only." Just wanted to thank you for fighting the good fight. Against stupidity... RJCraig 08:33, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello again (again). I have a question totally unrelated to Egyptian Arabic; OK to ask?

On a bulletin board site I have been reading recently, someone (of uncertain provenance) has been posting about Faṣiiḥ, extolling its virtues compared to venacular forms of the language. I know only a very little about the native grammatical tradition but am aware of the veneration accorded the classical language as recorded in the Qur'an. But is this "super-adoration" of Faṣiiḥ common in the Arab world? (Forgive me for asking a probably stupid question!) RJCraig 11:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not a stupid question, but it's important not to generalize because this varies significantly from country to country. The word you're looking for BTW is Fuṣḥa, which is the Standard/Classical variety of Arabic. Arabic-speaking countries use this language for most written literature as they generally tend to consider it "proper Arabic". But as I mentioned, this varies widely. In Syria, the birthplace of Arab nationalism, there is zero interest in the vernacular as far as I can tell, which may explain why there is no article to date on Syrian Arabic. Egypt, the country I'm most familiar with, exhibits a healthier attitude toward its spoken language, though not on an official level. When asked whether they preferred Egyptian Arabic, Fuṣḥa or both, 68% of respondents in Haeri (1996) reported that they preferred Egyptian. This article  is about the local reaction to a Moroccan novelist who chooses to write in his native Darija. It talks about the classical-vernacular dichotomy in Morocco in good detail. &mdash; [ziʔɾɪdəʰ]  &middot;  t  05:04, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for replying; I'll have a look at that article. The person in question insists on praising "Faseeh", and describes it as the "true language spoken by the Bedouins." He claims that whenever a tribe of Bedouins meets people who speak another language, the Bedouins absorb the nouns (why just the nouns I have no idea) used by those people, enriching Faseeh in the process. A speaker of Faseeh is automatically more eloquent and facile at the creation of poetry than a speaker of Arabic (especially a city-dwelling one). Whenever Arab grammarians disagree, they have only to ask a "12-year-old child" to resolve the conflict, since Faseeh children are incapable of grammatical error. And more of the same.

Does any of this ring any bells? (I'm starting to think "escapee from a happy farm somewhere", to be honest.) RJCraig 20:49, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not that familiar with Classical Arabic, but I do know that medieval Arabic grammarians considered the Bedouin idiom the most "accurate" or "pure" form of the language. Some contemporary Bedouin dialects are more conservative and have preserved many classical features that were either lost or never incorporated into the urban Arabic vernaculars that came about with the spread of Islam. &mdash; [ziʔɾɪdəʰ] &middot;  t  23:57, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

... Egyptian Arabic !
See my talk if you please. --Sibahitalk 10:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Would appreciate ur views!
On what I added to the Egyptian Arabic discussion however unprofessional they may seem. And any assistance with locating a list with the words derived from other languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zakaria mohyeldin (talk • contribs)

Cairo University
Hi, Zerida. From other pages I've seen, it's customary to include notable alumni. Why should Cairo University be any different? Jessesamuel 23:27, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Saad Zaghlul
Bonjour. Je voulais vous remercier pour votre correction sur l'article de Saad Zaghlul. Cordialement. --Shaolin128 19:14, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

White and Egyptians
I added Egyptians to the White template because they're White on the 2000-2010 US Census. I know there is debate over this classification, but why should they not be in the template?--Dark Tichondrias


 * I don't think it's at all appropriate to include Egyptians in a list of "White Americans", the US census notwithstanding. Hispanics are far more likely to pass for "white" than Egyptians, but the former are not classified as such. Most Egyptian Americans would not consider themselves as "White", so self-identification should be taken into account. &mdash; [ziʔɾɪdəʰ] &middot;  t  00:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Egyptian Americans should ban together and tell the Office of Management and Budget they are not White if that is their majority opinion. The 2000 US Census asked people what they wanted to be. Apparantly most Egyptians or North Africans (whichever group they asked) were okay being Whites. The US Census Bureau changes its definitions by individual group's self-definition. --Dark Tichondrias


 * I do not see any evidence for an application process to change an entire ethnic group's race on the www.census.gov site. How would they decide who was the legitimate representative of an ethnic group anyway? This is exactly the kind of controversy that the individual self-identification policy tries to avoid. You can ask them questions at


 * The Census Bureau does not require that Egyptian Americans identify as a particular race, nor does it appear to normalize Egyptian Americans' race to "White" from self-reported race. says: In Census 2000, the vast majority of Arabs reported their race as White and no other race (80 percent), or as Two or more races (17 percent).25 Small proportions reported a single race of Black (1.1 percent), Asian (0.7 percent), American Indian and Alaska Native (0.07 percent), Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander (0.03 percent), or Some other race (1.0 percent). In addition, 3.2 percent of the Arab population reported as Hispanic (of any race). --JWB 06:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The US government has long considered anyone of North African or Middle Eastern descent to be "White/Caucasian". A person who writes Egyptian in entries re. ethnic origin is automatically considered White. People who check "Other" and write Egyptian are still counted as White. Many forms specifically ask people of NA/ME descent to check White/Caucasian for "race". It's highly misleading and forces people to choose something they otherwise would not identify with. A Nubian-Egyptian man once sued the US government to have "White" removed from his immigration documents. By the same token, the US Census considers Egyptian and Berber Americans as "Arabs", even though most Berbers and many Egyptians would object to this classification quite as much. At any rate, the Census Bureau is not an authority on these matters.  &mdash; [ ziʔɾɪdəʰ ]  <font color="#daa520">&middot;  <font face="Garamond">t  00:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I added some of your comments above to White (people). By the way, are you saying that a respondent who checks Egyptian ancestry and some race other than White/Caucasian would still be counted as White/Caucasian? --JWB 18:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I talked to an anthropologist who was among a team who designed the US 2000 Census. He said individuals could mark whatever they want, but the formal definitions are defined by majority self-definition.

I was planning on making a template for Middle Eastern Americans which would only include Middle Eastern Americans. Do Egyptian Americans identify as Middle Eastern or North African commonly enough to add them in this proposed template? --Dark Tichondrias


 * Yes to both. &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ] <font color="#daa520">&middot;  <font face="Garamond">t  03:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Egyptian Fellah
You said its more representative of the population? how? Egyptians arent black? YungMike513

leave a message code
o yea thanks for the leave a message code :) YungMike513 19:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Pics
No, because the percentage of Egyptians who actually know anything about Egyptian folk music pales in comparison with those who know and are influenced everyday by Amr Diab and Youssra. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs)


 * Fine. You want to go with the Youssra one, and remove Amr Diab? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs)


 * The thing is, while reading this article, I feel like it makes Egypt look a nation of fellahin, while forgetting that the vast majority of the population is very urban. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs)

I'll do my best when I have some free time on my hand.

Thanks for talking this through. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs)

Can you link the Ruby picture to Ruby (Egyptian Singer) Article? I can't link it with this article, and instead end up with linking it to the stone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs)


 * I fixed it, thanks for letting me know. &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ] <font color="#daa520">&middot;  <font face="Garamond">t  17:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Article on Sadate
I am the one who, on May, 14, made the correction on the Sadate article by deleting the words stating that Boutros-Ghali was wounded at the military parade during which Sadate and others where killed in October 1981.

I did it ( and this was my first contribution to Wikipedia ) because I had just read a book ( published in France by Editions Complexe – title : “ Soixante ans de conflit israélo-arabe ” ), where Boutros-Ghali and Shimon Peres ( Israeli former Foreign Affairs and Prime Minister ) exchange ( opposed ) views on the Israeli-Arab conflict.

On page 207, Boutros Ghali states explicitly that he was in Alexandria on the fatal day, that he was called back to Cairo and only then and there was he told about Sadate’s death.

This being a first-hand source ( and the book in itself is a must-read for anyone interested in the subject ), I corrected the article.

Was there any specific reason for your reversion ?

Sincerely,

Gilles ( my first name )

--Gillesjouvenet 01:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Oops, I apologize about that! I went back to see what I did, and saw that another anonymous editor had vandalized the page after your edit, so I may have assumed that yours was blanking vandalism. Thanks for the info and welcome to Wikipedia. Please, feel free to make any improvements you believe are appropriate. &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ] <font color="#daa520">&middot;  <font face="Garamond">t  04:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your swift reaction and your welcoming me to Wikipedia.

It is indeed a marvelous tool for sharing knowledge, despite the scourge of vandalism.

As I am no more an anonymous user, I am going to make the correction again.--Gillesjouvenet 22:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Zahi Hawass
I think you might be leaning a little too pro in the Zahi Hawass article. If you do a little searching on the web you will see that there is much controversy over his handling of Egyptian sites and his scientific rigor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Settersr (talk • contribs)


 * I've responded to you on the article's talk page. &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ] <font color="#daa520">&middot;  <font face="Garamond">t  19:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Masri
Thanks for the help. I updated the page with the news. Jessesamuel 21:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

/* Culture */ ُEgypt
According to this message: "Please do not remove content from Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism, and if you choose to do it repeatedly, it may get you blocked from editing. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you."

I'd like to notify you, it's not a vandalism .. There's a pic of Ruby in Egyptian culture, O RLY? where's the pic of Dr. Zewail instead? Is Ruby represnt our culture in Egypt?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.36.214.58 (talk • contribs)


 * Perhaps not, but unfortunately the removal can be construed as vandalism if it's done repeatedly without discussion, despite being asked to discuss the matter on the talk page. With regard to whether Ruby "represents" Egyptian culture; this is a value judgment, one with which Egyptians would certainly have varying opinions. A recent article on the topic for example indicated that Egyptian youth regard Ruby and the football/soccer player Beebo (full name?) as the most interesting people in Egypt. So it cannot be denied that Ruby has a very large following in her home country. In any event, the placement of the picture is not meant to "represent" Egyptian culture, only to show an aspect of it. As to the picture of Zewail, I didn't remove it and I have no objections to it, but I don't think it's appropriate for a culture section (he's a chemist). &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ] <font color="#daa520">&middot;  <font face="Garamond">t  21:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Abdelhalim.jpg
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Abdelhalim.jpg, has been listed at Possibly unfree images. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. Please go to its page to provide the necessary information on the source or licensing of this image (if you have any), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Pyb 16:31, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

HAPPY NEW YEAR, Zerida
Felicitations! According to the ancient Egyptian calendar, the new year has just started, today. Just thought to seize the chance to greet you and also to urge you for celebration. I thank you for all your contributions with knowledges and information about Egypt, in Wikipedia. Have a great time, __Maysara 03:35, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey .. Actually I didn't know Wafaa e'Nil was celebrated at that time. But didn't the Nile festivals and the, secular, Haaby worship, were all done at the anticipation (i.e. right before the beginning) of inundation, that is, in Ba'ouna (or June)?! So I thought. Though the week before the new-year was also celebrated by our Grandfathers; it coincided, and still coincides, with the merriment and joyfull activity of collecting and classifying huge quantities of palm-dates! which still happens today in many regions, and almost intact, in Nubia. :-)
 * So what was the "nanou en sawwa en werri."?! Coptic for "Happy new year"?! Come-On! It's time we get to know each other much more. Also, rather than having these conversations going under the eyes of the world! (maysara.omar@gmail.com) __Maysara 01:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

zerida
Zerida, im sorry for this misunderstanding. Im sure you have good intentions as I have. I also love ancient Egypt and would love to visit it again. My many compliments for your edits on Egyptian articles. Wishing you best. Thanks. Ldingley 20:49, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Saadawi.gif
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An appology
I appologize for what I did 'by mistake', considering your edit to "Alexandria University" article as vandalism. Once more I appologize :) --TheEgyptian 20:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Article rating
Where can I find the rating of an article? I know that the featured articles are marked wit that golden star...what about the other levels?

--TheEgyptian 16:28, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi there! Not all articles are rated. Usually those that fall within a WikiProject will be rated according to a quality scale similar to this one. If an article has been rated, you will find a template on the associated talk page. See Talk:Ahmose I for example. &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ] <font color="#daa520">&middot;  <font face="Garamond">t  21:55, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Egyptians
Hi again Zerida. Awesome work at the Egyptians article. I have some remarks though: the article is too long (couldn't finish it esp. the history sections), references may need cleanup and the top image may be an OR, but overall, extraordinary work. --Wedian 01:20, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * As i said, vey nice work, Zerida. I understand that shortening the article won't be an easy job. As for the top image, i know there is no strict policy for OR in images, but it was just a concern i had that adding such an image at the top would imply that these are the most famous Egyptians which is only the view of the editors. If i were to edit that image, i won't add Ruby who had her time may be a year ago but not now. Sherine or Amr Diab would fit more and certainly Umm Kolthoum. I would also replace Prince Rahotep with someone more known to the public, may be Khafra or Ramesses II. Nawal el-Saadawi is ok but Hoda Shaarawi may have been better and Zewail would also go to the top image. Can you see my concern here? Other editors might have other points of view as well. Anyway, Egyptian feminism would be great too. Keep up the good work.--Wedian 13:57, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Ancient Egyptian religion
No more backlog. :) Thanks for the reminder. Luna Santin 02:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

About article Copt
You asked for my opinion on the article Copt. I have posted my opinion on the talk page of the article here. I hope I have helped. Thank you for asking for my opinion. --Meno25 02:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
Hi, Zerida. If you remember you asked for my opinion on the article Copt on September 4, 2006. However, I left you this message because I suspect that the article Coptic Christianity has been heavily vandalized but I didn't want to revert it without the opinion of another user. Could you check the last few edits of this article for vandalism, please? Thank you. --Meno25 19:48, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Coptic Christianity
Hi, Zerida. These two past revisions: and  are what I was referring to. You can notice that the image in the info box was deleted. By the way, I notice that you do a lot of effort concerning Egypt-related articles. Good work. --Meno25 01:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Abraam Bishop of Fayoum
Hi, Zerida.

I thank you for accepting the appropriate additions in Coptic Christianity. As far as any adjustment in St Abramm of Fayoum, I am surprised that you consider it as vandalism. I corrected an inaccurate title that unfortunatly was being used by most egyptians. St. Abramm was a Metropolitan. This is in the history books. My family is originally from Fayoum and my grandfathers knew him in person and they were pioneers in Fayoum in many venues. So my correction is based on facts not supposition. If you want to discuss this, please email me (wassefm@msn.com). I would like to register, but I work out of two computers (home and work), if you noticed my contributions are from the IP address ending in 39 and 177, so if I register froom one, will it acknowledge the other IP address or do I have to register in both, with different names. please advise.

Thank you

Sub deacon Magued Wassef —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.126.136.177 (talk • contribs)

Ibn Yunus
Hi Zerida,

Regarding Ibn Yunus, he was actually born in baghdad, then later moved to Egypt. But still, I left the Egyptian Category there, since he probably lived most of his life there. I hope you agree with me that you can be an arab and an egyptian at the same time :) Another famous arab egyptian astronomer was Mashallah. I provided sources that mention him as an egyptian, but it gets continusly removed by the persians. Please have a look at it.

Cheers, Jidan 17:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Jidan. Actually, it appears you have Ibn Yunus and Ibn Yusuf mixed up. With regard to the former, there is very little doubt about his Egyptian parentage and birth   . Ibn Yusuf, Sr. never left Egypt.


 * As to being Egyptian and Arab at the same time, it's a subject of frequent debate. While Egyptians often don't consider themselves Arab on account of their non-Arab origins (hence this Arab-Net description of Egyptians) .there are still Egyptians who do. In either case, the modern understanding, which is based on either affiliation with Arab nationalism or lack thereof, should have no bearing on medieval history. Medieval Egyptians did not describe themselves as Arab the way some people in the ME do today. The titles al-Misri, al-Farisi, al-Kurdi etc. were often used to distinguish non-Arab Muslims from Arab ones. Some modern writers apply the term Arab to medieval scholars the way it's used today, but this constitutes a fallacy of presentism IMO. Articles like Ibn Qutaybah are confusing. I won't quibble over Ibn Yusuf due to the lack of certainty regarding his origins. Similar arguments appear to have taken place about Ptolemy whose origins are not clear. He has been described both as a Greek and a Hellenized Egyptian. Mash'allah may also be one of those cases, but he's also Jewish. Perhaps Category:Arabic-language writers is more appropriate. I notice there is a WikiProject Muslim scholars. Another way to avoid disputes like these is to focus on medieval Muslim scholars in general. Their being Muslim is rarely debated. Just my 2 cents. &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ] <font color="#daa520">&middot;   <font color="RoyalBlue"> ☥   06:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment, you seem to know a lot. ohhh that is soo imperssing!! I have mixed up Ibn Yunus and Ibn Yusuf :( I really thought they were the same person, only different sources. I have witnessed many times multiple articles of the same person, and I thought the same thing here. Anyway, thanks! Now regarding Ibn Yunus, if you check his surname; its al-sadafi. In arabic thats "الصدفي". Al-sadafi was an arab yemeni tribe that migrated to egypt during amr ibn a's. As Ibn Khaldun said: "بنو الصدف - بفتح الصاد وكسر الدال المهملتين حي من حضرموت وحضرموت يأتي نسبه عند ذكره في حرف الحاء المهملة حضر منهم جماعة فتح مصر مع عمرو بن العاص واختلطوا بها‏." Here is another site regarding this family . Regarding the Arab vs Egyptian/Lebnanon identity, it is as you said, its a frequent debate. But what I noticed, is that its mostly done by non-muslims. The Arabs didn't have a nationlaism concept, but rather triblaism. At that time your citizenship was your religon. This all changed during the colonoial ages.

Regarding Mashallah, did you read what I wrote in the discussion page? Most sources mention him as Egyptian jew not persian jew and I provedid those sources, but the article now says he is just persian. Jidan 10:38, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * There may well have been a Yemenite tribe known as Sadef, but to extrapolate from that that Ibn Yunus had anything to do with it when there are no references to that effect is more like original research. Ibn Yunus, Sr. was a historian and a biographer who wrote extensively about the history of Egypt and the Egyptians as stated in the links above. Surely, he would have made mention of any alleged Arab/Yemenite connection.


 * The book references I've come across mention Mash'allah being Persian Jewish . The first source says, "There has been speculation that [Masha'allah] was from Egypt, but his Persian name (Yazdankhwast) and the pro-Iranian and anti-Abbasid sentiments detected in his writings, leave little room for doubt that he was Iranian" (pp. 45-46). So actually it does seem he was more likely Iranian not Egyptian I'm afraid. &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ]  <font color="#daa520">&middot;   <font color="RoyalBlue"> ☥   03:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Its not orginail research. Al-Sadafi is a known yemeni arab tribe that have immagrated to egypt and Al-Andalus during the islamic expansion and have held high postions in the governemnt and I have gaven you a citation from Ibn Khaldun.I think you know very well the significance his surname is. And by allowing User:Mardavich to remove his surname Al-Sadafi, you have demonstrated very well how signifcinat it is! Anyway, whether you like it or not, I consider egyptians and arabs one family, therefore I will leave it like this but I will add the arab categories down and of course his surname back. If you disagree with this, then we are going to have a problem. Jidan 10:40, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The Ibn Khaldun tidbit is not a citation. There needs to be concrete evidence that connects Ibn Yunus, Jr. or Sr. to that tribe. The term Sadafi is connected with a multitude of things in the ME from Iran to Morocco as a quick Google search demonstrates, but I won't haphazardly guess that Ibn Yunus was Persian because there are Persians by that name. There also happens to be an old town in Egypt known as Sadafa, but I don't know if he's connected with it or not. It's not important to me either way what part of his very long name stays up in the article, because some references mention al-Sadafi, some mention al-Misri, and some mention both. It is also not important to me that you consider Egyptians and Arabs "one family"! As the oft-repeated Wiki-phrase goes: this is an encyclopedia. It is important that it remains accurate.


 * The overwhelming documented evidence points to his Egyptian background. For example, his historian/biographer father wrote exclusively about Egypt and Egyptians. From the reference I quoted above, "Egypt's most celebrated early historian and first known compilter of a biographical dictionary devoted exclusively to Egyptians, Ibn Yunus al-Sadafi never left Egypt... As al-Kindi's observation reminds us, the Pharaonic view of Egypt as the center of the universe became part of the cultural heritage of Islam in Egypt...Egyptians saw little reason to seek knowledge elsewhere" (Eikelman 1990, p. 58). The Britannica's entry on Ibn Yunus the astronomer describes him simply as an Egyptian astronomer as do most other references. He's also known to have worked with Egyptian/Coptic texts, which suggests he was bilingual in Coptic like most Egyptians then were. It is simply not accurate to describe Egyptians in the transition period of the early centuries of Islam as Arab. &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ]  <font color="#daa520">&middot;   <font color="RoyalBlue"> ☥   19:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow...that was fast..LOOL. Im sorry if I was uncivil in anyway. Jidan 00:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * BTW, which part was uncivil? Jidan 00:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Ibn Yunus
After some research at the library, I've found several references regarding Ibn Yunus's Egyptian background and identity, which I added to the article. --Mardavich 13:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

HRW in Egypt
Zerida - While I appreciate your commitment to human rights as evidenced by your vigorous editing, this part is located in such a central position in the article, and occupies more space than any of the sections on National, International, Military, Demographics - which are far more important sections. I therefore think it merits some shortening, or at least placement in a less central location. Not even North Korea, which has a human rights record a billion times worse than Egypt, has such a long section on human rights placed in such a central location, as you can easily check.

I am no big fan of Mubarak and Co. I just wish that: a. we stick to typical wikipedia format concerning articles on countries and b. not be so proud of showing Egypt's dirty laundry to the world. We shouldn't hide the ugly truth but we shouldn't also be proud of exhibiting it with such length and in such a location in the article.

Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs).


 * OK, I don't really have objections to the current version. But John, I wouldn't be so vigorous in editing that section if you weren't equally vigorously making it sound like the government is actually doing a good job of protecting human rights! Since there's a section about it now, it should also note the perspective of human rights organizations. You also keep editing out the part about Baha'is and other religious minorities. I think the section warrants some mention, that's all. &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ] <font color="#daa520">&middot;   <font color="RoyalBlue"> ☥   07:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

7 years is a bit too long...but hey...it's better than being president for life!

Johndoe (unsigned)


 * Hear, hear :) &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ] <font color="#daa520">&middot;   <font color="RoyalBlue"> ☥   06:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Ibn Yunus
Hi, please take a look at Talk:Ibn Yunus. --Lanov 06:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Ethnic group
Hi Zerida,
 * ''(Reverting to old color arrangement; new one is not working properly for some articles)

Sorry to hear my amendments to this template failed to work for some articles; thanks for fixing it. Could you please indicate in which articles the template broke down, so I may try to understand why...? Thanks. David Kernow (talk) 23:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC) PS Does the version of the template here work at your end...?


 * ''...Please see my comment at Template talk:Infobox Ethnic group, namely that the color arrangement need more refining for some articles which now have both orange and green.
 * Thanks for your prompt reply; I'll visit Template talk:Infobox Ethnic group a little later. What bugs me about this template are instances in articles such as Turkish people where its subheadings become squashed and space is wasted below them because they've been given a column rather than a row each. Hence my experimentation on the test page... Regards, David (talk) 23:25, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Rating Egyptians
Hi, Zerida. You left me a message and I would like to thank you for your valuable information. Concerning the article, I rate tens of articles as I am a member of WikiProject Physics, so, I don't remember every article I rated. I rerated the article without looking at history, so, I didn't see your comment. I will not rerate it again. However, I think that the article is very good. It surely exceeds B rating. You should nominate it for GA. --Meno25 05:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar
Happy holidays! ← <font color="DimGray">A NAS ''' <font size="-3"><font color="DodgerBlue">Talk? 16:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh yes, I did celebrate the holidays. ;-) It was quite fun. And oh yeah, impressive Shami. :-) ← <font color="DimGray">A NAS ''' <font size="-3"><font color="DodgerBlue">Talk? 21:36, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Egypt
Hi, Zerida. I noticed that you listed your name in the proposal page for WikiProject Egypt. I contacted some interested Wikipedians found in Category:Wikipedians in Egypt. The proposal page says: ''If your project gains support from 5-10 active Wikipedians, it could probably benefit from the organisation boost of having a proper page. Remove it from this list and follow the instructions for creating new projects.'' We are now 5: You, me, TheEgyptian, Passive and Haisook, so, we could start the project. In my opinion, we will need three pages: one for the project, one for Portal:Egypt and the third for the template that we will use to tag the articles which are within the scope of the project. I don't have enough to create the portal or the template. However, I (through browsing) have found that Portal:Germany (a featured portal) and physics are good examples that we can follow.

Considering the WikiProject page, I will try to create a temporary version of it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Egypt/Temp shortly after finishing this message. --Meno25 01:57, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Not at all, Zerida. The Project now is active. Please see WikiProject Egypt. I will start tagging the articles right away. By the way, I think that Anas was absolutely right when awarding you the High Culture Barnstar. Your contributions shows that you most certainly deserve it. Merry Christmas. --Meno25 00:30, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Egyptian article- Origins section
I notice that some of the issues discussed earlier on the Ancient Egytians article as to length and focus have reappeared in the "Origin" section of the "Egyptians" article. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ancient_Egypt&action=edit&section=2 Quote:
 * "I'd further like to point out that spending oodles of megabytes editing the one small section about the people of ancient Egypt just to add information about their biological affinities is quite beyond the scope of this article and what it needs.." Zerida


 * "no more baroque discussions of the ethnic essence of the Ancient Egyptians here, please, this is out of proportion. This is our Ancient Egypt article... Compare "Ancient Egypt" entries in any respectable encyclopedia, and you will be sure to find they don't get sidetracked over dental studies.. dab


 * The less dental study cruft we have on this article, the happier I will be. [[User:Dbachmann|..

I believe these issues can be settled quickly as discussed earlier rather than start yet another weary round of multiple edits, supporting casts, RFCs, neutrality tags, etc. Namely:
 * Move the long dental study quote to a footnote. It will be picked up by Google's indexer anyway, so those who like the quote have lost nothing
 * Balance out or harmonize the section to reflect the views of a number of other scholars, to stand beside Brace and Irish. This has already been done in part
 * The Origins section will thus be more balanced, and shorter, which is in keeping with the overall scope of the main article.

I think this is a good solution and would be agreeable to others. Thank you. Enriquecardova 06:56, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I posted my response to the article's talk page. &mdash; <font face="Tahoma">[ zɪʔɾɪdəʰ ] <font color="#daa520">&middot;   <font color="RoyalBlue"> ☥   22:11, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

arabic wikipedia
i invite u to write in arabic wikipedia because it suffer from low number of articles, so can u help us --Mmustafa 10:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

i am sorry to know that ur arabic is not good, how one can forgot his country language,for all i wish u explore the arabic wikipedia, and give ur suggestions on it, best wishes to u in the new year --Mmustafa 23:09, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Welcome
Thank you for your comments Zerida, I only removed the two names because this page is about people in our time. The names i deleted were of pharos. I dont think thats what that page was about.

A elalaily 21:27, 9 January 2007 (UTC)Abdallah