User talk:Zeszut

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Happy editing! Skyerise (talk) 12:20, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

July 2023
Hello, I'm Skyerise. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Vajrakilaya, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at referencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Skyerise (talk) 12:21, 31 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Sky. I thought about this after I submitted the edits. I'll provide a footnote with the source as soon as I can.
 * Thanks,
 * Terry Zeszut (talk) 17:04, 1 August 2023 (UTC)


 * If you continue to edit, you should know that most edits which don't include citations will simply be reverted. It's not okay to add them later, they need to be added when you add any new material. Skyerise (talk) 19:35, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Sky,
 * This is my first time editing a wiki page and was wondering if you can offer me some guidance?
 * There are two descriptions of the Vajrakilaya on this page. The first one is the very second paragraph of the article and the second one is in the section "Iconography". As a practicing Tibetan Buddhist with Vajrakilaya as my Yidam, I see that there are errors in both. The second description doesn't even jive with the picture of Vajrakilaya on the webpage!
 * What is the etiquette here?
 * Do I create a THIRD description somewhere? Do I approach the two who wrote those descriptions and offer my corrections? Do I simple add corrections after their descriptions? I really don't want to start a "turf war" but I don't want readers to come away with misinformation.
 * Or do I just leave things as they are and walk away?
 * Thanks in advance,
 * Terry Zeszut (talk) 22:02, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * As I've already said, when you make changes, you provide citations to reliable sources. There is nothing wrong with changing the article, as long as you provide citations for your changes. Tell us where can we verify the description you have added.


 * That said: there are many forms of Vajrakilaya. Some have one head and two arms. Some are black, some are blue. Some have four legs, some have two. Some have two arms, some have four, some have six arms, some have more. Some embrace a consort, some don't. Images are for decoration. They are not necessarily representative of the text they are near. A caption should describe the image; the text near it may or may not be related to the image.


 * Many practitioners of Buddhism stick to one Lama and think that the practice and visualization given to them by their Lama is the "right" one, but are unaware that other Lamas and schools have other forms and other descriptions. So, you cannot "correct" the article from personal knowledge. You must cite a reliable source when you make changes. When you add a sourced description, you may remove unsourced material that you think is "wrong" — but it may not actually be wrong. It may simply be from a different school or lineage of Buddhism than yours.


 * I am also a practitioner for some 35 years and have received multiple forms from multiple lineages. The form practiced in the Dudjom tradition may be the best known, but it is not the only form of Vajrakilaya. The form described in The Dark Red Amulet: Oral Instructions on the Practice of Vajrakilaya is somewhat different from the one in the Dudjom tradition. The Kagyu form described by Garchen Rinpoche may be different as well. So we need to know what book the description came from and what school and lineage's iconography is being described.


 * It does not do Wikipedia any good to replace one unsourced description with another unsourced description. On the other hand, replacing an unsourced description with a sourced description is an improvement. When a sourced description is added, the new text should state what school, lineage and/or Lama uses that particular iconography. Ultimately the article should include all the major variants of the iconography of the deity. Skyerise (talk) 10:15, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Sky,
 * As one old time practitioner to another, thanks for clearing things up. I say old time because my first Vajrakilaya empowerments were from Jigme Tromge Rinpoche in 1993 and from his father Chagdud Rinpoche in 1994. Be assured that I would have no problem citing anything I might post which, in this case, would be the sadhana The Razor That Destroys at a Touch from Chagdud Gonpa's Padma Publishing.
 * I admit error and correct were wrong terms for me to use. I think correlate might have been better. The second description bothered me in that does not describes the image on the webpage particularly when the description includes a reference to "granting boons" and "wishfulfilling jewel". I also have a Ratnakilaya empowerment and, though he does hold wish fulfilling jewels and a phurba, the other items he holds are totally different (eg, ax, lasso, etc). I was hoping to find that cited text to see for myself but unfortunately I would have to buy the book.
 * It's completely my fault for thinking that the descriptions should match the image. Thanks for clearing that up.
 * I think that adding a third description would be confusing. Additionally, I would be citing a sadhana that is only available to those having already received a Vajrakilaya empowerment. So, I'll leave the page as is.
 * Thanks again for you time and effort, Sky. You helped me get a better understand how Wikipedia pages are made and edited.
 * Terry Zeszut (talk) 20:34, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Old Iron Knot Rinpoche is my Root Lama. Skyerise (talk) 20:42, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Mine is his son Jigme Rinpoche. Small world. Zeszut (talk) 20:49, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, JR gave me my lineage name as I had never asked his father for one... Boord's books should be fine. I believe that while they are a restricted purchase at Chagdud Gompa, they are actually generally available for purchase online. Skyerise (talk) 20:54, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Another good source for deity descriptions is the Himalayan Art Resources website. Skyerise (talk) 20:56, 3 August 2023 (UTC)