User talk:Zhu Haifeng

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Hi. Thanks very much for your message. That's very helpful, as I'd actually forgotten to check the 'Show preview' page before saving my edit! So I'll remove my link on the Mark Lester page to that disambiguation page straight away. Thanks again! Zhu Haifeng (talk) 16:54, 29 December 2011 (UTC) Zhu Haifeng

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List of BBC newsreaders and reporters
Thank you Zhu Haifeng for all the work you have done on this article. Sorry for having to revert some of what you did yesterday, but what you have done has really helped in keeping the article up to date. Best wishes. Uvghifds (talk) 17:17, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Uvghifds. My pleasure, and I'm really grateful for what you've said. Actually, you were absolutely right to revert my former edits, as the order you suggested made/makes a lot more sense, as it enables the reader to search by region (Europe, Asia, North America, etc) and then by location within the region, placed alphabetically - and that the names within each location should then be sorted alphabetically. On reflection, I must say I totally agree with you that placing all the correspondents names into one long alphabetical list, as I had done, would just end up as a big mess! In fact, as the lists had become missorted over the years, that sensible pattern had all but disappeared, so I just hadn't noticed it! I'll try to do a little more when I can.

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction and Best Wishes to you. Zhu Haifeng (talk) 01:46, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Beeb
Your contributions are excellent, but are you employed by the BBC in any capacity? Gareth E Kegg (talk) 22:59, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Gareth E Kegg. Thank you very much! No, I'm afraid I'm not: I hope that doesn't disqualify me! In fact, I don't belong to any media (or media-related) organisations at all. I'm just interested in this subject, and want to help provide users with reliable, unbiased (and hopefully fairly-presented) information.

Best Wishes. Zhu Haifeng (talk) 01:50, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

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Glyn Mathias
Nice work on the article, but the "media offices" box goes after the references (per MOS:LAYOUT) and we shouldn't have unsourced information about living people (including, perhaps especially, family members) in articles. Thanks, BencherliteTalk 01:15, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, and thanks also for your citing of the MOS:LAYOUT. You'll be glad to see I've put it back in the right place! Also, I have a reputable source for the family members (one of those already cited), so I'll enter it in the next few minutes. Also, I wonder if you could possibly help me with the coding? I'll enter the source name at the end of the section. Many thanks. Zhu Haifeng (talk) 01:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Bencherlite. Just to let you know I've put an updated message to you on your 'User talk' page. Thanks again. Zhu Haifeng (talk) 02:07, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

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Talkback
Fiddle Faddle (talk) 08:39, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Independent v Public School in the UK
Hi, noticed the change you made to the article on Petersfield. Just curious as to the reason behind it? As far as I'm aware, public school is still an accepted term, and is more specific than independent school. Grunners (talk) 12:53, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Grunners (talk), thanks for your question. Yes, there are three reasons for the change. First, 'public' schools is not a widely-enough used term even in the UK, let alone internationally, to refer to non state-maintained senior schools. Indeed, in two of the nations of the UK, Scotland and Northern Ireland, it only refers to state-maintained schools. Wikipedia encourages the use of internationally-understood words and phrases, rather than those limited to a particular country or locality. Secondly, even in England and Wales, the term 'public' schools is ill-defined and not used officially: both OFSTED and the ISC refer to non state-maintained senior schools as 'independent' schools, as do the schools themselves. And thirdly, while 'public' schools is only used to refer to that ill-defined section of independent senior schools, several of those listed in the education section of Petersfield either incorporate, or are themselves free-standing, independent junior schools. I hope that clarifies why the change has been made.

Thanks again for your question. I look forward to your reply. Many thanks. Zhu Haifeng (talk) 09:39, 23 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your response though. I disagree on some of the points: Public School is a very widely used and understood term in the UK, particularly in England. Media especially uses the term extensively, see for example political coverage. It is also well defined, being those schools which are members of the Headmasters and Headmistresses Conference. Particularly with the rise of independent academies or 'free schools', the term Public School is more useful than ever in establishing a clear understanding of a school's character. Grunners (talk) 10:14, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

My pleasure and thanks for your reply. I'm afraid I would disagree with the points you have made, as in half the nations of the UK, the term 'public' school specifically refers to state-maintained schools, and is used widely in the same way in international usage. As Wikipedia is an international encyclopedia, and not one limited to England, its guidelines specifically state that internationally-used terms are preferable to ones with more local usage. Media usage in England may use the unofficial term 'public' schools, but other terms are used unofficially too, and their use is not automatically taken to be a reliable guide to official usage. And across the UK, the official term used by both government bodies and the schools themselves is 'independent' schools, not 'public' schools.

Unfortunately, membership of the Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference (HMC) does not provide a clear definition that they should be referred to as 'public' schools at all: its membership is open to schools across the world, where the term 'public' schools would be likely to be interpreted as meaning state-maintained schools, as it is in half the nations of the UK, and the HMC itself and its members refer to them as 'independent' senior schools. Furthermore, Direct Grant Grammar Schools were members of the HMC before abolition by government, and as far as I know, have never been officially referred to as 'public' schools, even in England or Wales, let alone in the wider world.

Academies and free schools remain state-maintained schools, as are voluntary-aided and voluntary-controlled schools, and notwithstanding the informal description of them as 'independent state schools', or as 'partly-independent', they are not independent schools and are not officially described as such.

Thanks again for your question, and I'm glad to have had the opportunity to clarify. I look forward to your reply. Many thanks. Zhu Haifeng (talk) 13:38, 24 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, thanks for clarifying! Grunners (talk) 13:36, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

My pleasure, you're welcome! Zhu Haifeng (talk) 14:24, 25 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Isn't the French Lycee in Sth Kensington in fact a French state school, as the article says? Johnbod (talk) 23:22, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Johnbod (talk), thanks for your question. No, the article is incorrect, and needs to be changed: the Lycée Français Charles de Gaulle in South Kensington is an independent school, as the UK government website page on the school makes clear. Here's the link:

http://schoolsfinder.direct.gov.uk/2076391/overview/

By the way, as far as I understand, governments aren't allowed to establish 'state' schools in foreign countries, as they have no authority to do so in other jurisdictions (in this case, France would only be allowed to do so in French overseas territories), but they can set up independent schools abroad which follow their own National Curriculum.

Thanks again for your question and I look forward to your reply. All the best - Zhu Haifeng (talk) 13:38, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't really think that answers it - a state school is one run by a state. The fact that it may not be part of the state system of the country it is located in is rather beside the point, although it should be noted in the article. In fact many states, including the UK, run schools in other countries. Why would they not be "allowed" to? Johnbod (talk) 14:15, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Johnbod (talk), thanks for your reply. I'm afraid I disagree with you, because the official definition of a school is provided by the government of the country in which the school is based, whatever organisation or foreign government agency may have been responsible for establishing it, or helping to establish it. In this case, I'm not at all sure that the Lycée Français Charles de Gaulle is actually owned or maintained by the French state (even though its curriculum is maintained and overseen by it), as French state-maintained schools, like British ones, do not charge tuition fees - yet the Lycée Français Charles de Gaulle in South Kensington is a fee-paying school.

The situation of British schools abroad is much the same: even if established by the British state, their official definition is provided by the government of the country in which they are based. An equivalent of the Lycée Français Charles de Gaulle is the British School of Paris, but despite its title, it was establish by a private individual, Mary Cosyn, and like the Lycée Français Charles de Gaulle, is a fee-paying school.

As the definition is provided by the country in which a school is based, the British state would be allowed to establish an independent school abroad, but not a school within that country's state system. Again, the government of the country in which that British school is based would provide the official definition of it - not the school itself or even the British state which may or may not have had a hand in establishing it.

Thanks again for your question, and I look forward to your reply. Zhu Haifeng (talk) 15:04, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * But my understanding is that the Lycee doesn't charge fees, or at least to French citizens, possibly not at all, which as you say is the crucial point. Johnbod (talk) 15:37, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely the crucial point, in addition to the official definition provided by the government of the country in which it's based. And according to the 'Good Schools Guide', a publication which is regarded as an independent and reputable guide, its webpage of the main school (the 'French' section) indicates that it DOES charge fees, which it states are between £4,185 - £10,791 per annum. Here's the link:

http://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/schools/100103/lycee-fran-ais-charles-de-gaulle

And another page on its site states that the 'British' section of the school charges between £9,093 - £10,791 per annum:

http://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/schools/100116/lycee-fran-ais-charles-de-gaulle-british-section

I look forward to your reply. Thanks again. Regards, Zhu Haifeng (talk) 16:17, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, fair enough - though note that £4,185 would probably represent a subsidy of about 80%, no doubt from the French govt., compared to other top independent schools nearby, all of which should be added to the articles on the school and borough. Johnbod (talk) 17:53, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi again, Johnbod (talk). First, you are absolutely right in your belief that the school is owned by the French Government, as I discovered late yesterday, and I agree with you that it certainly needs to be made clear on the relevant Wikipedia webpages that this is the case, together with the description of the school as an independent school. Please see the changes I have made to the introductory description on the school's Wikipedia page Lycée Français Charles de Gaulle and the note next to the school in the list on the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (Independent schools) page. Please also see this article from The Independent newspaper, which I've used as a citation for the References section of each of those two pages, and which makes the ownership of the school clear (spelling mistakes aside!):

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/fury-as-london-lyce-makes-room-for-sarkozys-son-765470.html

Secondly, you might be interested to know that last night, a friend of mine managed to speak to a woman who's a former pupil of the main 'French' school, who confirmed that it is indeed owned by the French Government (though I realise that unsourced personal assurance isn't sufficient for inclusion in a Wikipedia article). But she assured him that there is no difference at all in fees between its main 'French' and 'British' section, pointing out that the large lower fee of £4,185 cited on the Good Schools Guide webpage for the main school is accounted for by the fact that it educates pupils from the age of THREE onwards (as admittedly, the webpage does make clear), whilst at the British one they start at the age of thirteen! She says that's the typical fee charged for younger pupils at the school, and that nothing was incorrect on the Good Schools Guide website, as far as she could see. She was actually quite shocked by the suggestion that the French Government would provide any fee subsidy for French students while not doing the same for British or other ones, and said it would be illegal under EU law (as I'd suspected), to effectively discriminate in this way in favour of their citizens at one of their own schools abroad, while denying a subsidy to other EU citizens - and that it would have to be offered to everyone or no-one.

I look forward to your reply. Thanks again. Regards, Zhu Haifeng (talk) 09:15, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've added more from what you found to the school's article: . I think that's fine now. Johnbod (talk) 11:06, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

My pleasure. Thanks a lot for doing that. I've looked at the material you've added, and have just one concern with it: I can't see any evidence that the French Government subsidises the fees, and think that that unsourced assertion needs to be removed. And, as I mentioned in my reply above, a former pupil says that the £4,185 lower fee is the standard fee for younger pupils at the main school and that they aren't subsidised by the French Govt. for the reasons given above (which admittedly, as it is itself unsourced cannot therefore itself be used to refute that unsourced assertion), and therefore casts doubt on it. I think it needs to be changed. Regards Zhu Haifeng (talk) 12:55, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Why don't you just email the school and ask all these questions? I can't believe you haven't thought of doing this. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 17:40, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Gareth E Kegg (talk), thanks for your question. I already have. Better not to make assumptions about others' thoughts or actions! Regards Zhu Haifeng (talk) 21:22, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Cool. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 21:30, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

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Eton College
Hi, Thanks for your efforts. I just wanted to remind you that titles of newspapers go in italics. This means that, when using the "cite news" template, the name of the newspaper goes under the "newspaper" (or "work") parameter, not "publisher". (The publisher is something different, but we never bother with the name of the publisher when citing mainstream news sources.) Thanks -- Alarics (talk) 07:11, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Alarics (talk), you're welcome and thanks a lot for your message. Ah, I hadn't realised that, so I'll try to ensure I enter the information correctly in future. Much appreciate your clear explanation! All the best -- Zhu Haifeng (talk) 07:23, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

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Jane Ridley
Many thanks for your helpful aditions to this new page, which I have edited for consistency with my own style in the rest of the page. (I agree with a comment by Alarics above, but these things are easily fixed.) I am curious about your citation from the Cranbourne Chase register, which you gave as "Cranborne Chase School Register, 1967. Publisher: Cranborne Chase School. Published: Autumn 1967. Retrieved: 9 March 2014." Is that online somewhere, or do you have a copy of it to hand? Moonraker (talk) 11:48, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

My pleasure, Moonraker. I think my thanks are due to you, too: I was actually about to create a web page about the above person, as I had enough sources available to do so, so I was surprised and actually quite grateful to see someone else had already done so, and had found even more in the process! You've done it very well, and I'm pleased to have been able to add a little more to a superb article about a very interesting subject. Unfortunately, the School's Register doesn't appear to be online for any year, but I was able to borrow the 1967 edition a few weeks ago from a former pupil, who had previously told me that Ridley had attended the School. The pupil's mother had apparently acquired the Register around the time of publication. The details of the above and other pupils include their fathers' names and home addresses. School registers are an invaluable source of information - I'm constantly acquiring, and strongly recommend, them! Many thanks again. All the best, Zhu Haifeng (talk) 23:19, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
 * There we are, I guessed you must have seen a hard copy. When you have a chance to see it again, could you please add a page number? You are right, of course, about the spelling of "Cranborne Chase School", I'm surprised I didn't notice it myself when I was last editing the page. Moonraker (talk) 08:19, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, you were right to have guessed that! However, I think I should perhaps have added that my constant acquisitions of school registers are usually on a temporary, rather than permanent, basis - and this was one of the former! But I'll see if it's possible to reborrow it in the not too distant future, or at least to request the page number that I forgot to note. By the way, please don't worry about the misspelling of the School's name in your reply: it's a common mistake, apparently, which extended to the title spelling on its original Wikipedia page - which I was able to correct through a Wikipedia 'move request' on 27 February this year. I've also subsequently made a few minor improvements to the page itself. Best of luck, and thanks again for all your hard work and helpful messages. Zhu Haifeng (talk) 08:50, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Ken Livingstone
Hello Zhu Haifeng. Thank you for your contributions over at Ken Livingstone, but I just wanted to let you know that I removed the referenced additions that you made to the lede. Those introductory sections are for essential information only, and your additions were fairly minor in comparison. Just wanted to let you know so that there are no hard feelings. Best, Midnightblueowl (talk) 22:04, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Midnightblueowl. Thanks very much for your message, and my apologies for not having replied to you before now. Yes, in retrospect I agree with your decision to remove my additions, as they were fairly minor. No hard feelings at all! All the best, Zhu Haifeng (talk) 00:13, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

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BBC Edits
Hi Zhu. I notice you have made some edits on the BBC lead which in part duplicates material in the history section later on and contains some errors or questionable claims. The lead is just supposed to be a quick summary of what the BBC is. Was there something you didn't like about the summary you replaced (which was partly mine) or would you mind if I revert it? Here's the bit I am talking about:

"It started in 1922 as a private company, the British Broadcasting Company, owned by British and American radio set manufacturers, and financed by the consumer levy of a radio licence fee. It successfully applied to become a national public broadcaster, beginning in 1926, while retaining its editorial independence and financing system, and guaranteeing political neutrality."

Steve157 (talk) 01:26, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi Steve. Thanks very much for your message, and for contacting me to try to find a mutually acceptable resolution. Would that all Wikipedians could treat each other with such courtesy! I'm sorry if I've given the wrong impression about my view of the summary that you helped contribute to: I actually thought it was very good, but that it really needed the addition of a very brief 'potted history' of the subject's formation in the introduction, to facilitate a deeper understanding of it. I wouldn't say, though, that I'd "replaced" the former summary, as I did retain the original description, while trying to provide additional content. However, I'm very concerned if there are any inaccuracies in the description, as I need to correct them as soon as possible. Please can you tell me what they are?

Many thanks again for your considerate attitude.

All the best, Zhu Haifeng (talk) 01:08, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi Zhu. First you are correct, nothing was replaced, my mistake. I don't think a little potted history helps at all as the lead was a summary of what the BBC is now and this adds a bit of history in right in the middle of that which doesn't make sense to me. But that's secondary to all the errors.

I don't want to spend ages going over all of them, but have you read the first part of the history section below? It covers the part you have summarised but in more detail and I believe accurately. Do you not see that it is telling a rather different story to your summary? Just as one example - what application are you talking about when you state "It successfully applied to become a national public broadcaster? Who was "It" and who did "It" apply to? I am concerned that your summary is really inaccurate and would like to revert it and then discuss further you still want to if that's OK.

Regards Steve157 (talk) 01:27, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

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Malta
Could you please comment at Talk:Malta as to why you think the lead needs to be expanded? Kendall-K1 (talk) 13:36, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

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Berkhamsted
Thank you for contribution, I have however removed your sentence regarding one of the towns schools in the top paragraph of the town's wiki page lead. The town has a full history and it is not necessary to cover all the details of the town's institutions in the lead; which is only meant to be a brief introduction to the town. If we include one of the town's senior schools then why not the other, which is probably of more historical interest. The are other areas of the town of equal interest, but I dont believe the should be too many areas raised in the introduction. The school is sufficently covered in the body and your contribution repeated most of it. That said articles are improved by contribution and I have made a couple of changes in the school section based on your contribution. -- BOD --  00:41, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I have had a change of mind and added back your addition, but moved it down the lead/lede and added text about the other large senior school in the town. Not sure if this is adding too many seperate topic areas in the lead/lede. This was a criticism the articles lead has recieved in the past. -- BOD --  01:19, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

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Categories for People educated at Beechen Cliff School & People educated at City of Bath Boys' School
As you can see from this discussion, I have proposed that these two categories should be merged. If I understand it correctly, the school merely changed its name (hence, there is only one school article) and thus there should be only one category. We don't need a separate category for each name change. Best wishes. Sussexpeople (talk) 07:43, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Sussexpeople, thanks very much for your message. Please see my reply to you on that page. Thanks again for your reply. All the best. Zhu Haifeng (talk) 14:31, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks like the article on the school(s) needs amending as this implies that Beechen Cliff School was founded in 1896 and merely changed its name in 1970.  Sussexpeople (talk) 16:05, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I agree and I think you're absolutely right to raise that point. The article is misleading, as the schools are entirely different institutions. All the best. Zhu Haifeng (talk) 19:20, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

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