User talk:ZooFari/Archives/2010/February

Thanks
Thanks for updating the project status.  Zoo Pro  04:34, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the Barnstar, Means a great deal to me. Cheers  Zoo Pro  05:11, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

A Note From The Arbiter
Hello! I'm saying this for The Arbiter at the moment. Would you be interested in joining WikiProject Zoo? Just by your name I can tell you might be a "zoo" kind of guy. Graci, Belugaboy535136  contribs 12:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll check it out later. -- Zoo Fari  18:15, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look. We hope you'll consider joining the project. I'm not a coordinator, but I wish I could call myself an apprentice to the co-coordinators: ZooPro and The Arbiter. Belugaboy535136  contribs 00:24, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for joining WikiProject Zoo!! We hope you'll like the project and stay with us. Thanks again, Belugaboy535136  contribs, apprentice to The Arbiter and ZooPro.  —Preceding undated comment added 13:22, 1 February 2010 (UTC).

You Have Mail.
self explanatory lol. Zoo Pro 04:55, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but mIRC tells me that I need an invite...could you invite me? The Arbiter  ★★★  01:50, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, sorry, sorry! Not sure what's wrong with IRC, but please, be patient with me. Anyway, I've sent you an email... Cheers! The Arbiter  ★★★  02:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

To ZooFari


Hello ZooFari, The Arbiter has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing! Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Inkscape text
Hi, could you take a look at my comment at GL/I again? You fixed the problem but there is another issue! Thanks Smartse (talk) 00:01, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. Take a look. Cheers, -- Zoo Fari  00:06, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Zoo Portal
I didnt actually intend to create the portal first time around, i accidently hit the save button, then i was like oh well what the heck. Looks good though, i love the color scheme its rather unique among the other portals, i will leave it in your very capable hands if you need anything let me know. Zoo Pro 00:04, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you going to use google for the Zoo news section? Zoo Pro 07:59, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know. But that should come later. If you have any ideas, let me know. Cheers, -- Zoo Fari  16:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Just wondering how you were going with the Portal?, i havent seen any changes recently and was wondering if there was a reason or if you wanted any help with it. Zoo Pro 23:54, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

About the portal
Hey Zoofari, great work so far on the portal. I was just wondering, is there anything I could assist you with? I'd be happy to help! Cheers, The Arbiter  ★★★  22:49, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I added the "Selected Articles" from the list of GA-class Zoo articles. Hope you don't mind. Cheers, The Arbiter  ★★★  02:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

IRC
I am currently on IRC. Zoo Pro 04:08, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Graphic lab top 4
Could my request you added to the talk page possibly added in the next rotation? Thanks. Connormah (talk | contribs) 00:54, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅, up on this round. -- Zoo Fari  23:24, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Industrial design
Hi again ZooFari. Can you do that kind of AWB job: Articles already with Category:Industrial design (or a subcategory, see exception later) to be tagged in their talk page with ... But in subcategory Category:Consumer goods, only Category:Furniture to be tagged. No user/portal/project/template/ect pages. That should take in around 1750 pages. Thanks if you're the right one, --AlainR345Techno-Wiki-Geek 01:01, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm doing all except Computer-aided design, Product design, and furniture. I'm also holding off all recursive Industrial designers categories except American industrial designers, Danish industrial designers, Dutch industrial designers, etc. I will need to see consensus first, because not all articles in these cats are relevant to industrial design, or because industrial design is too much of a parent WikiProject. -- Zoo Fari  03:14, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Re . I have previously been informed that if a WPBiography banner is on a talk page, that one must come first, particularly where it has yes. I've transposed them (and also enclosed in because there are now four). -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:58, 14 February 2010 (UTC)


 * OK Mr. ZooFari. I thank you on behalf of the Industrial design WP for the work you've done on this already. By looking at the Furniture Category, I see it's a problem to do it that way, one must be picky. As for CAD, it's fine, my idea is not clear on it yet either. Regarding Automobile designers, we don't focus on that so much because we know the Cars community can take care of those babies. On the other hand, I don't understand what problem Product design has for you (?), but that's very little stuff anyway. Now, I would appreciate if you could do the Furniture designers (and subs) as that's clearly the topics we're in. Thanks, --AlainR345Techno-Wiki-Geek 04:07, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. Did both furniture designers recursively and product designers. -- Zoo Fari  05:52, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Great! Thanks. I'm sorry I was a bit foolish about something: could you do also the template/category/project (no subs for that one I guess) and portal stuff (portal being the Portal:Design, there's no category for that one, you will have to use a URL pattern something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Design/* )... Also could you tell me more about that 'consensus' thing (how/where)? --AlainR345<font color="#ffb000">Techno-Wiki-Geek 20:18, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't quite understand, Do you want me to add the banner to project pages and categories as well? And the portal subpages? -- Zoo Fari  22:13, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, adding the WikiProject_Industrial_design Java banner to talk pages of 4 template & 30 project pages tagged with Category:WikiProject Industrial design Java . For the categories, taking the Category:Industrial design as a cue (not taking Consumer goods, ect. so we're talking around 40-50). As for the Portal subpages, yes again. You can find examples here and there I guess. Thanks --<font face="Times" color="#4590ff" size="2">AlainR345<font color="#ffb000">Techno-Wiki-Geek 02:53, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Now I'm really confused. So we are doing WP Java now? -- Zoo Fari  03:14, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I'm dumbhead I guess. Now, does that make sense a bit? --<font face="Times" color="#4590ff" size="2">AlainR345<font color="#ffb000">Techno-Wiki-Geek 04:12, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok. Are you sure you want the portal subpages tagged? Their talk pages are usually left uncreated. -- Zoo Fari  04:33, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And if I'm understanding correct, you don't want me to tag categories, just use the categories as the source, right? -- Zoo Fari  04:35, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Forgive me for I have sinned (in communication I mean)... OK, let's do this thing right this time:
 * We're definitely into tagging some English Wikipedia talk pages with the banner;
 * Let's forget Templates, there's too few;
 * Let's tag with |class=Project for the 30+ project pages (the cue here is Category:WikiProject Industrial design); (this example has my age);
 * Let's tag with |class=Portal for the Portal:Design page and all subpages; there's no category for that one, so you would have to use a URL pattern something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Design/* ); (this other example will give you proof and... liquid energy)
 * And let's tag with |class=Category for the Category:Industrial design page and all 35+ subcategories for which you've tagged articles of that subcategory; thus no Consumer goods for instance. (that example will give you proof and... solid energy)
 * Now, we're talking! Thanks, --<font face="Times" color="#4590ff" size="2">AlainR345<font color="#ffb000">Techno-Wiki-Geek 06:56, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/File:Physignathus lesueurii howittii.jpg
You never got back to me on which twig you meant. Noodle snacks (talk) 01:26, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Commons transfer
Can you get your Commons friend to speedy these? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 18:11, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * File:Semel 2008(extra chico).png
 * File:Scouts Canada Labrador.jpg
 * File:Scouts Canada Newfoundland and Labrador.jpg
 * File:Bandalag íslenskra skáta 1940s.svg
 * File:Scouts Chrétiens du Liban.png
 * Commons friend? -- Zoo Fari  03:51, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think DarkFalls. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 17:15, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like most are now deleted. I have asked for the last one to be deleted on Commons. Cheers, -- Zoo Fari  03:41, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Zoo Portal
Just seeing if you were still keen on the portal, i noticed it is kinda of sitting in suspended animation. <font color="#004730" face="Papyrus">Zoo <font color="#FFD200" face="Papyrus">Pro 00:27, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. I've been very busy lately and only edit for short periods time. I'll be spending some time on it tomorrow or this weekend, hopefully enough to start adding articles and good stuff. Cheers, -- Zoo Fari  07:44, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Im going to jump in and try and get it up and running, if you want to change anything at a later date then we can work that out. <font color="#004730" face="Papyrus">Zoo <font color="#FFD200" face="Papyrus">Pro 03:40, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Australia
I'm so happy to see you, thank you! The image is great, much better than what we had, please (minor) correct with File:World Scout Emblem 1955.svg, File:Association of Southeast Asian Nations (orthographic projection).svg and File:Naval Ensign of Australia.svg. How have you been? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 04:12, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been quite busy, and probably won't see you again till the week after. Are you busy right now? Any chance you could meet me at IRC? -- Zoo Fari  04:25, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Just signed on, am I doing this right? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 04:32, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That is fantastic! It was nice to talk to you today! --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 11:18, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

File:Boy Scouts of Bahrain.svg
Hello Zoofari. Could you explain why you reverted the tagging of the article to be moved to Commons? Moving lets other sister projects to use this file. After the move is performed, you will still be credited for the work. Kind regards. Rehman(+) 04:45, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair use images aren't allowed on Commons. -- Zoo Fari  04:50, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, i missed that. Thanks for the revert. Regards. Rehman(+) 05:08, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

For Portal:Primates: DYK for Illegal logging in Madagascar?
I don't know if you want to put it on the Primates portal, but Illegal logging in Madagascar got mentioned last night on DYK. You can read the hook (which mentions lemurs) on its talk page. I didn't list it under WP:PRIMATE, so I'd completely understand if you don't want to. –  VisionHolder  «  talk  »  20:14, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I suppose it wouldn't hurt. I have eliminated the rosewood tree example to focus it on the lemur species. You can view the hook here. Cheers, -- Zoo Fari  22:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Retirement? Say it ain't so!
Really? I'm very disappointed to see this. But it is of course a personal decision. I'd like to say thank you for all your hard work and excellent graphics that now grace the pages of Wikipedia. It's unfortunate that we are now losing our best vector graphic artist. Best of luck in the future and I very much hope to see you back here soon, even if it does make a liar out of you. :)  upstate NYer  19:56, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for updating the project status.  Zoo Pro  04:34, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the Barnstar, Means a great deal to me. Cheers  Zoo Pro  05:11, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

A Note From The Arbiter
Hello! I'm saying this for The Arbiter at the moment. Would you be interested in joining WikiProject Zoo? Just by your name I can tell you might be a "zoo" kind of guy. Graci, Belugaboy535136  contribs 12:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll check it out later. -- Zoo Fari  18:15, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look. We hope you'll consider joining the project. I'm not a coordinator, but I wish I could call myself an apprentice to the co-coordinators: ZooPro and The Arbiter. Belugaboy535136  contribs 00:24, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for joining WikiProject Zoo!! We hope you'll like the project and stay with us. Thanks again, Belugaboy535136  contribs, apprentice to The Arbiter and ZooPro.  —Preceding undated comment added 13:22, 1 February 2010 (UTC).

You Have Mail.
self explanatory lol. <font color="#004730" face="Papyrus">Zoo <font color="#FFD200" face="Papyrus">Pro 04:55, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but mIRC tells me that I need an invite...could you invite me? The Arbiter  ★★★  01:50, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, sorry, sorry! Not sure what's wrong with IRC, but please, be patient with me. Anyway, I've sent you an email... Cheers! The Arbiter  ★★★  02:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

To ZooFari
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

Hello ZooFari, The Arbiter has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing! Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Inkscape text
Hi, could you take a look at my comment at GL/I again? You fixed the problem but there is another issue! Thanks Smartse (talk) 00:01, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. Take a look. Cheers, -- Zoo Fari  00:06, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Zoo Portal
I didnt actually intend to create the portal first time around, i accidently hit the save button, then i was like oh well what the heck. Looks good though, i love the color scheme its rather unique among the other portals, i will leave it in your very capable hands if you need anything let me know. <font color="#004730" face="Papyrus">Zoo <font color="#FFD200" face="Papyrus">Pro 00:04, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you going to use google for the Zoo news section? <font color="#004730" face="Papyrus">Zoo <font color="#FFD200" face="Papyrus">Pro 07:59, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know. But that should come later. If you have any ideas, let me know. Cheers, -- Zoo Fari  16:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Just wondering how you were going with the Portal?, i havent seen any changes recently and was wondering if there was a reason or if you wanted any help with it. <font color="#004730" face="Papyrus">Zoo <font color="#FFD200" face="Papyrus">Pro 23:54, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

About the portal
Hey Zoofari, great work so far on the portal. I was just wondering, is there anything I could assist you with? I'd be happy to help! Cheers, The Arbiter  ★★★  22:49, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I added the "Selected Articles" from the list of GA-class Zoo articles. Hope you don't mind. Cheers, The Arbiter  ★★★  02:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

IRC
I am currently on IRC. <font color="#004730" face="Papyrus">Zoo <font color="#FFD200" face="Papyrus">Pro 04:08, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Graphic lab top 4
Could my request you added to the talk page possibly added in the next rotation? Thanks. Connormah (talk | contribs) 00:54, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅, up on this round. -- Zoo Fari  23:24, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Industrial design
Hi again ZooFari. Can you do that kind of AWB job: Articles already with Category:Industrial design (or a subcategory, see exception later) to be tagged in their talk page with ... But in subcategory Category:Consumer goods, only Category:Furniture to be tagged. No user/portal/project/template/ect pages. That should take in around 1750 pages. Thanks if you're the right one, --<font face="Times" color="#4590ff" size="2">AlainR345<font color="#ffb000">Techno-Wiki-Geek 01:01, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm doing all except Computer-aided design, Product design, and furniture. I'm also holding off all recursive Industrial designers categories except American industrial designers, Danish industrial designers, Dutch industrial designers, etc. I will need to see consensus first, because not all articles in these cats are relevant to industrial design, or because industrial design is too much of a parent WikiProject. -- Zoo Fari  03:14, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Re . I have previously been informed that if a WPBiography banner is on a talk page, that one must come first, particularly where it has yes. I've transposed them (and also enclosed in because there are now four). -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:58, 14 February 2010 (UTC)


 * OK Mr. ZooFari. I thank you on behalf of the Industrial design WP for the work you've done on this already. By looking at the Furniture Category, I see it's a problem to do it that way, one must be picky. As for CAD, it's fine, my idea is not clear on it yet either. Regarding Automobile designers, we don't focus on that so much because we know the Cars community can take care of those babies. On the other hand, I don't understand what problem Product design has for you (?), but that's very little stuff anyway. Now, I would appreciate if you could do the Furniture designers (and subs) as that's clearly the topics we're in. Thanks, --<font face="Times" color="#4590ff" size="2">AlainR345<font color="#ffb000">Techno-Wiki-Geek 04:07, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. Did both furniture designers recursively and product designers. -- Zoo Fari  05:52, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Great! Thanks. I'm sorry I was a bit foolish about something: could you do also the template/category/project (no subs for that one I guess) and portal stuff (portal being the Portal:Design, there's no category for that one, you will have to use a URL pattern something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Design/* )... Also could you tell me more about that 'consensus' thing (how/where)? --<font face="Times" color="#4590ff" size="2">AlainR345<font color="#ffb000">Techno-Wiki-Geek 20:18, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't quite understand, Do you want me to add the banner to project pages and categories as well? And the portal subpages? -- Zoo Fari  22:13, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, adding the WikiProject_Industrial_design Java banner to talk pages of 4 template & 30 project pages tagged with Category:WikiProject Industrial design Java . For the categories, taking the Category:Industrial design as a cue (not taking Consumer goods, ect. so we're talking around 40-50). As for the Portal subpages, yes again. You can find examples here and there I guess. Thanks --<font face="Times" color="#4590ff" size="2">AlainR345<font color="#ffb000">Techno-Wiki-Geek 02:53, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Now I'm really confused. So we are doing WP Java now? -- Zoo Fari  03:14, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I'm dumbhead I guess. Now, does that make sense a bit? --<font face="Times" color="#4590ff" size="2">AlainR345<font color="#ffb000">Techno-Wiki-Geek 04:12, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok. Are you sure you want the portal subpages tagged? Their talk pages are usually left uncreated. -- Zoo Fari  04:33, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And if I'm understanding correct, you don't want me to tag categories, just use the categories as the source, right? -- Zoo Fari  04:35, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Forgive me for I have sinned (in communication I mean)... OK, let's do this thing right this time:
 * We're definitely into tagging some English Wikipedia talk pages with the banner;
 * Let's forget Templates, there's too few;
 * Let's tag with |class=Project for the 30+ project pages (the cue here is Category:WikiProject Industrial design); (this example has my age);
 * Let's tag with |class=Portal for the Portal:Design page and all subpages; there's no category for that one, so you would have to use a URL pattern something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Design/* ); (this other example will give you proof and... liquid energy)
 * And let's tag with |class=Category for the Category:Industrial design page and all 35+ subcategories for which you've tagged articles of that subcategory; thus no Consumer goods for instance. (that example will give you proof and... solid energy)
 * Now, we're talking! Thanks, --<font face="Times" color="#4590ff" size="2">AlainR345<font color="#ffb000">Techno-Wiki-Geek 06:56, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/File:Physignathus lesueurii howittii.jpg
You never got back to me on which twig you meant. Noodle snacks (talk) 01:26, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Commons transfer
Can you get your Commons friend to speedy these? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 18:11, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * File:Semel 2008(extra chico).png
 * File:Scouts Canada Labrador.jpg
 * File:Scouts Canada Newfoundland and Labrador.jpg
 * File:Bandalag íslenskra skáta 1940s.svg
 * File:Scouts Chrétiens du Liban.png
 * Commons friend? -- Zoo Fari  03:51, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think DarkFalls. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 17:15, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like most are now deleted. I have asked for the last one to be deleted on Commons. Cheers, -- Zoo Fari  03:41, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Zoo Portal
Just seeing if you were still keen on the portal, i noticed it is kinda of sitting in suspended animation. <font color="#004730" face="Papyrus">Zoo <font color="#FFD200" face="Papyrus">Pro 00:27, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. I've been very busy lately and only edit for short periods time. I'll be spending some time on it tomorrow or this weekend, hopefully enough to start adding articles and good stuff. Cheers, -- Zoo Fari  07:44, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Im going to jump in and try and get it up and running, if you want to change anything at a later date then we can work that out. <font color="#004730" face="Papyrus">Zoo <font color="#FFD200" face="Papyrus">Pro 03:40, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Australia
I'm so happy to see you, thank you! The image is great, much better than what we had, please (minor) correct with File:World Scout Emblem 1955.svg, File:Association of Southeast Asian Nations (orthographic projection).svg and File:Naval Ensign of Australia.svg. How have you been? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 04:12, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been quite busy, and probably won't see you again till the week after. Are you busy right now? Any chance you could meet me at IRC? -- Zoo Fari  04:25, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Just signed on, am I doing this right? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 04:32, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That is fantastic! It was nice to talk to you today! --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 11:18, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

File:Boy Scouts of Bahrain.svg
Hello Zoofari. Could you explain why you reverted the tagging of the article to be moved to Commons? Moving lets other sister projects to use this file. After the move is performed, you will still be credited for the work. Kind regards. Rehman(+) 04:45, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair use images aren't allowed on Commons. -- Zoo Fari  04:50, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, i missed that. Thanks for the revert. Regards. Rehman(+) 05:08, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

For Portal:Primates: DYK for Illegal logging in Madagascar?
I don't know if you want to put it on the Primates portal, but Illegal logging in Madagascar got mentioned last night on DYK. You can read the hook (which mentions lemurs) on its talk page. I didn't list it under WP:PRIMATE, so I'd completely understand if you don't want to. –  VisionHolder  «  talk  »  20:14, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I suppose it wouldn't hurt. I have eliminated the rosewood tree example to focus it on the lemur species. You can view the hook here. Cheers, -- Zoo Fari  22:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Retirement? Say it ain't so!
Really? I'm very disappointed to see this. But it is of course a personal decision. I'd like to say thank you for all your hard work and excellent graphics that now grace the pages of Wikipedia. It's unfortunate that we are now losing our best vector graphic artist. Best of luck in the future and I very much hope to see you back here soon, even if it does make a liar out of you. :)  upstate NYer  19:56, 28 February 2010 (UTC)