User talk:Zouf

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Chevrolet Silverado
Welcome to Wikipedia! I welcome your contributions to the Silverado and Suburban articles. You will note the changes I made. These were intended to bring the style of these articles in line with others, not as criticism or correction of your contributions. Please feel free to chat on my talk page if I can offer you any help! --SFoskett 04:26, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I seriously doubt that there are enough differences to warrant two articles here. What you'll end up doing is creating a new article and immediately facing a merge proposal.  We've gone through this again and again with car articles...  Please do not split them out yet.  Instead, please list in the article's talk page what exactly these differences are so you can justify splitting them out.  --SFoskett 04:32, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

FLHS
Hi. Funny, I lived for 10 years in Jamaica Estates, so I know the Fresh Meadows area pretty well. In general, the copyedit flag means that there could be some improvements to the way the article is written or constructed. As you know, this is Wikipedia, where everyones contributions get edited 1000 or more times in the interest of making things better. I gave you the standard welcome up top; it has a number of useful links for new wikipedians.

Regarding some examples of how the article would benefit from some copyediting, here is one. In wikipedia, we strive to write as an encyclopædia—in a neutral voice. Therefore, statements like "enourmous diversity," would not be preferred. The Brittanica would not use that, neither would a nuetral journal. Instead, "known for its diversity" would suffice. Anyway, what does "enourmous" diversity mean? Is there such a thing as humongous diversity? The adjective truly is not necessary.

Another example would be the removal of all the parenthetical insertions in the second paragraph, and re-writing it so that the paragraph reads more smoothly.

I could give more, but that is not the point. You did a great job bringing this article into wikipedia; now it will be poked an prodded like everything else, and made even better.

You, too, should try and improve other articles. Remeber, be courteous and bold. Hopefully, you will have much more to contibute. -- Avi 06:25, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Reversion
I should warn you, however, of the following: Please do not keep undoing other people's edits without discussing them first. This is considered impolite and unproductive. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert an article to a previous version more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you. -- Avi 06:29, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Luxo Car
It is not beyond repair and info is NOT MADE UP. I will add a reference section. Yes a 1990 El Dorado is a luxo car and fits the cateogries if you consider inflation. If you're really such a car fan, than you'd have heard these terms before. High-end lux, Mid-lux, Entry-level- You never heard these before????? Look up Forbes, edmunds. And yes the S600 is ultra but not he S430 or S500. I edited out the POV. The defenition is simple. Comfort + $38k MSRO = Luxo car OR Comfort + $29k + Luxo brand = Luxo car. Very easy. As I said, I'll add my references in the next few weeks, but I tell again the info is NOT made up! Thank you.  Signature brendel  04:37, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Lux compromise
Hi Zouf, I think we're really getting into an editing war and with reverting and adding I think its the article and visitors that suffer. When I wrote the luxury car article first, I wanted to describe the guidlines most frequently used by the media and government to define what a luxo car is. Now, everybody has a different opinion but I think some things are certain. Anyways, we need to find a solution. So, I have a favor to ask you. I know this might seem kind of ridicoulus but could you on my user discussion page, if you can find the time, tell what you think a luxo car is. I just want to know what you think, then I can look at other opinions including my own and we can work on what parts of the article need to go, what needs to be added and what should stay the same. This seems to me the best way to find a compronmise. Thanks and please let me know. Regards,  Signature brendel  23:59, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I agree with you, luxury is more than pricing. I have myself said, many times, that price only makes a car a prestige vehicle. In oder to be a luxo vehicle is also needs comfort in an aboundand environment. Here's the thing about the MSPs. They are needed in order to determine what segment a car fits into. How do we know the BMW 330 fits into the entry-level segment, well because of its price. Also, the M3 is not entry-level, neither is the Cadillac CTS-V, but the 3-Series (not the M3) and the CTS (not the CTS-V) are entry-level luxo cars, that's who their sold and that's how they're received by the public. You see, once a car is determined to be luxury, its pricing is used to determine what segment it fits into. We already know the Mercedes-Benz E-Class is luxury but now what class do we put it into, hmmm. Well, most MB E-Class are sold between $40 to $60. Sure there are a couple of E500s being sold over $60k, which yes makes them high-end, but most E-Class are 320s and 430s, so overall the E-Class is marketed as mid-level, the S-Class being high-end with its S600/55/65 reaching into the Ultra-lux level. Look at the German system, maybe that's clearer because that's how MB and BMW structured their line-up. Here is how the line-ups from Deutschland were created:

Perhaps this makes it clear how cars by the big three German brands are marketed. You see this is where the segments come from. Sure a car whose starting MSRP like that of E-Class starts in the "Upper-middle Class" range may reach the High-end range, but most E-Class arn't. See we need the prices to determine the segments, and I think the prices we have on the article are the one's being used to determine the segment. If have read your argument more than once and as of now I don't see how the article is so unbearably wrong. Regards,  Signature brendel  02:37, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * BMW 1-Series, Starting out
 * BMW 2-Series, Compact for the practical and budget minded consumer.
 * BMW 3-Series, Middle-Class for those who want to trade up and life the average middle class life style, want a sporty car with the anemities one would expect at this level.
 * BMW 5-Series, Upper-middle class, now its really getting an art, luxury and preformance for those with an appreciation for the "finer things in life."
 * BMW 7-Series, Ahh the grand Upper-Class luxury flagship, money isn't an objective, you want it all, you get it all.
 * Rolls-Royce Phantom (new), There are millionares and then there are billionares.


 * Alrighty. I am aware that too strict of a treshold/guideline is not desireable. That's why acutally started using a $3,500 to $4,000 treshold. So a $57k car could also be considered high-end. I think some wordsmithing and a $3k to $4k tolerance will help. Thanks.  Signature brendel  05:01, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

BMW M3
Hi Zouf, while I agree with most of your changes to the Luxo vehicle article, please consider that the BMW M3 is not considered merely an option on the 3-Series. Rather it is considered a model in its own right. I used the example of the Lincoln LS to illustrate your point. The LS V6 was entry-level, the LS V8 is mid-level. Thanks for your contributions.  Signature brendel  00:59, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Flagship vehicles
Zouf, in your edits to the Flaghsip vehicle article you added a lot of SUVs to the article. The thing is, a flagship vehicle is defined as the most expensive vehicle of a brands most iconic body style. It is not merely the most expenisve vehicle. You see, the DTS is the Cadillac flagship, not the Escalade. Yes the Escalade is more expensive than the DTS but sedans, not SUVs, are Cadillac's most sold and therefore most iconic body style. Cadillac sells way more sedans than SUV (beleive it or not ;-)), so the Cadillac flagship is its most expensive sedan. If you have any questions let me know, other editors and myself spend quite some time arguing about what a flagship is until we stummbled among this defenition. Thank you. Regards,  Signature brendel  05:42, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I suppose yes, hip-hop culture has changed the car industry. I'm okay with the double boxes, for Lincoln have both the TC and Navi and for Caddi have both the DTS and Escalade. Also, I think you misunderstood part of what I said. I didn't say the flagship is the most sold vehicle, no. I said the flagship is the most expensive vehicle of the brand's most sold body style. So, if 60% of the cars a company sells are sedans, the flagship is going to be the most expensive sedan. MB for example sells mostly sedans, so its flagship is the most expensive sedan- the S-Class (S65 etc...). Also, the TC is refered to as simply Lincoln the Navigator is referred to as Navigator. But the same isn't true for Cadillac where each car is referred to with its model name. As I said put the double boxes in then, but you have to provide a URL for each vehicle you add. Thanks. Redgards,  Signature brendel  16:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Re: Arising Issue
Yes, you're right. It seems to me that Sam has made it his goal to somehow take revenge (for what?). I am quite amazed at the manner in which Samstayton has conducted himself, and now he is abusing legitamite wiki policy to take revenge. His referencing demands are ridicoulus, and we defenitely do need to coperate. Yes, the guidelines are subjective and you can take his graph back out- I agree with on the article itself. Best Regards,  Signature brendel  06:28, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Mid-size and Full-size SUVs
You have classified the Escalade, Tahoe and Yukon as mid-size. They have longer versions, who do deserve the "full-size" label. Well, would you compare the Escalade against the Jeep Grand Cherokee or the Explorer?

The Escalade and Tahoe are 5.1m long (=202 in) and the Escalade ESV and Suburban 5.5m (=220 in), whereas the Grand Cherokee and Pathfinder are around 4.7m (=187 in) and the TrailBlazer 4.85m (192 in). There is enough gap between the Escalade/Tahoe group and the Grand Cherokee/Pathfinder/Trailblazer - the first are full-size SUVs and the second mid-size SUVs.

And what about the ESV and Suburban? Well, they are much longer but don't have a separate category, they're just extended versions. This unsigned comment was left by NaBUru38.

Speedy tagging
Just being pedantic, but your tag of Techsurvivors was a little bit off. You just used the wrong one one the forest of speedy deletion templates, that's all. I usually use "delete because" a.k.a. db and write a little bit of prose. Keep up the good work. brenneman {L} 04:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

April 19 edit
OK, I understand. Sorry about the misunderstanding. In that case, the warning is unmerited, so I am removing it. I've made mistakes like that as well - when I first used Vandalproof I accidentily warned myself! Fabricationary 19:25, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject Automobiles Notification
Hi Zouf, you were on the list of members at WikiProject Automobiles and we are introducing a new way of listing members, as the old list was becoming too long. Our new method involves having all of our members in a category.

To add yourself to the category just add the userbox to your user page by putting   where you want the userbox. Alternatively if you don't like the userbox you can add   to your userpage.

If you no longer wish to be a member of the project, simply don't add the userbox or category, there's no pressure. Thanks for your time, James086Talk 04:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)