User talk:Zuggernaut/Archive 3

Not editing
Consistent to my opinion regarding user:YellowMonkey, not editing isn't a manifestation of compliance or good editing, keep editing, Wikipedia has millions of articles, which you can contribute to within the limits of the ban.Yogesh Khandke (talk) 17:39, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to stop editing due to the topic ban, at least not for now. It's just that this activity is now a low priority so you'll see me around once in two weeks or so and sometimes as frequently as once or twice in a week. I see that your struggle at Ganga continues. Another similar renaming that's required is the move from Bangalore to Bengaluru. It keeps on coming up on the talk page every now and then. I voted against the move just a couple of months back but after the 2011 Cricket World Cup I am convinced that the name needs to be changed, given that all commentators, print, Internet, TV media referred to the city as Bengaluru. I heard that the broadcasts reached about 2 billion people worldwide. It's a joke that Wikipedia still prefers to call it Bangalore. I've also done some work at the Infobox Indian jurisdiction template for addressing issues similar to this for Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai, etc and I had limited success (people agreed to having both, former and current names). Perhaps someone should take up those issues as well. Zuggernaut (talk) 14:18, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * We could draw a list of articles which need work on, will you help me on Madia Gond, to put templates on the citations?Yogesh Khandke (talk) 21:41, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Some of them are already listed at the project I proposed (someone could propose a task force instead of a project since it will be easier to get consensus for a task force). Unfortunately due to the topic ban, I cannot edit India related articles so I may not be able to work on Madia Gond. Zuggernaut (talk) 15:26, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry to learn of your topic ban; I don't know what precise dispute led to it, but I for one had enjoyed the perspective you brought to these topic areas. Ah well. Wikipedia bills itself as an encyclopedia, but it is also a community enterprise with a certain amount of inertia. So even if you're fighting the good fight against some form of systemic community bias, it takes time and lots of patience to build a new and fairer consensus. It's like an oil tanker; three guys in a kayak can move it, but they need to paddle long and hard. Once the ship moves though, it moves and will not slide back. But while you're paddling and nothing seems to be happening, it is difficult to paddle in such a way that the ship's crew don't cut you off. As far as I am concerned, we've lost one of our kayaks trying to move the tanker. -- JN 466  20:39, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Its funny, I don't know the precise reason for the ban since no diffs were provided. The kayak analogy is a good one but I think you either need to install jet packs or find a solution to the oil problem :-). Thank you for all the good work you are doing here, particularly at Ganga/Ganges which would have gotten zero attention without you and Yogesh. Zuggernaut (talk) 15:26, 1 May 2011 (UTC)


 * A bit of support for you in this difficult time. Indefinite does not mean indefinite, almost nothing is considered to be more than six months here and you are the one to turn it around, contribute a little here and there where you enjoy a topic and if all is constructive in a few months the topic ban can easily be overturned. You have a clean block log after eight months so you are doing something right. Take a step back and don't feel rejected by this, regards. Off2riorob (talk) 15:41, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Request for arbitration
This is to inform you that your request for arbitration has been declined.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee --Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 12:35, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Unfinished Business
At the time of my ban, I was working on a template and an article on disputed treasures in British museums. Any takers to create the template and the article in the respective spaces? You will find the template in my User:Zuggernaut/Template:Disputed treasures subpage. The sources for the article are in another User:Zuggernaut/Disputed treasures subpage. Zuggernaut (talk) 16:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I do not think your ban should prevent you from developing an article in your own userspace. once it is done you could ask an admin to look it over put it on the mainspace if everything looks OK or wait till your ban is lifted to do it yourself.  but you should check with an admin prior to doing that to make sure that it is 100% acceptable.--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:14, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * i will look it up one of these days. --CarTick (talk) 04:47, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It's good to see you following this template, and I'm sure you could ask for an exemption to finish something you'd already started in the userspace if you ask the admin who gave the restriction. One point is that what you've made looks like an infobox, not a template. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 08:50, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

bullying?
asking politely to add a source is "bullying"?. This from someone who labels people who dont agree with him as "brown sahib" and "acting white"?. hmmm thats rich--Sodabottle (talk) 13:15, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The IP in question made a good faith edit which you promptly reverted instead of adding a fact tag. The IP tried again and you reverted again. No attempts to explain to the IP how Wikipedia works, no messages on the IP's talk page, no links to WP:RS, WP:NPOV, etc. With thousands of edits against your username, you ought to know WP:AGF better. There's even a guideline called WP:BITE. Pretty straightforward. Zuggernaut (talk) 15:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The IP knew how to use the history page - he used the undo option to revert my first removal and thus i communicated politely with him through edit summary. What he added was an opinion, without attribution or citation, it can be removed anytime per WP:V and it is a featured article. Communicating through edit summaries is a widely accepted and followed practice. --Sodabottle (talk) 18:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, you can assume it was an un-sourced opinion of the IP. I will assume that the IP read something somewhere and wanted to improve the Chennai article but didn't know how to use Wikipedia. BTW, it took me less than 3 minutes to find a source and confirm the claim the IP was making. Zuggernaut (talk) 02:55, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Hindu Symbolism
Hi, I would be glad to add to such a topic like 'Hindu Symbolism' which is absent on Wikipedia. See this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolism.  ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर &#124; असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म..  Humour Thisthat2011  09:34, 2 June 2011 (UTC)


 * That would be a good addition. Sorry for replying so late. Zuggernaut (talk) 10:56, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Template:Infobox caste
i was wondering if you could help to have a readily usable form transcluded to this page! thanks. --CarTick (talk) 22:01, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I will post an example at WT:IN. I'm on Wikipedia after a long, long time, sorry for replying so late.Zuggernaut (talk) 10:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think I understood all that you wrote on my page. I am back after a long time, actually I fractured my wrist that has grounded me and allowed me to spend a little time here, I am keeping away from controversies, though. As I wrote earlier we need editors with a strong understanding of Wikipedia policies including wp:GREATWRONGS. Wonder what happened to CarTick?Yogesh Khandke (talk) 17:34, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * CarTick is off for personal reasons too. Hope your wrist is healed now. Zuggernaut (talk) 16:28, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No it isn't it is in a cast, it is a Scaphoid fracture, which isn't good, which has me hatching at home and gives me time for contemplation and Wikil. Regarding CarTick does he mean personal reasons? You seem to know. Ignore this if you wish, but how does your block function?Yogesh Khandke (talk) 03:25, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry to hear about the fracture - hope it wasn't your primary hand. CarTick says he'll be back soon. Don't know any more than that. BTW, I recently moved an article/disambiguation page to List of roads named after Mahatma Gandhi. I'm not sure that's your favorite topic :-) but feel free to contribute if you have an interest. The list has the potential to grow significantly and surpass similar lists like List of streets named after Martin Luther King, Jr.. I am interested in adding roads/streets outside of India. Get well soon! Zuggernaut (talk) 06:31, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot
Thanks a lot for the award. Your GAs like Upanishads and Deshastha Brahmin are always a joy to read. Please let me know if you need constructive critism/peer review to improve your articles or if you and I can collaborate on an article creation/improvement to make it a DYK/GA. I always try all best for that (considering time-constraints - I am spending lesser hours on wikipedia due to real life and the trend does not seem to end soon), but in long ugly disputes and arguments, I may not be the best person to approach as I tend to stay away from them as much as possible. I have also replied on my talk concerning "Emic sources" discussion on my talk. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 07:13, 10 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Many thanks from me too for the award. I appreciate it. It is unfortunate that a hardwarking, dedicated and knowledgeable editor like you have to sit on sidelines.I wish all restrictions on your editing are removed by the community. Shyamsunder (talk) 11:10, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Your block
What happened? No it wasn't my primary hand, it was my left hand. (You write English remarkably well.) The cast was taken off yesterday, though it is very stiff, and I now can use all eight fingers and both thumbs to type now, which is such a comfort.Yogesh Khandke (talk) 12:13, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, looks like you are making full use of your typing ability now with edits like this one. That's a good memory you've got. An excellent observation and an edit that deserves another chakra. I could have added 3 more items to it but I will leave it for another day. No comment on the ban. Thanks once again for a brilliant edit. Zuggernaut (talk) 16:26, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion
Hi, i know it's dumb of me to give it so late, but i've got a suggestion for you. You could contribute to articles related to Hinduism in Southeast Asia, and the ancient Hindu and Buddhist empires there such as Majapahit, Champa, Sri Vijaya, Sailendra, etc. Joyson Noel   Holla at me!  06:11, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added them to my watchlist but will most likely make minor edits to the articles due to lack of time. Thanks for making me aware of the articles. Zuggernaut (talk) 06:49, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you aware of the Laguna Copperplate InscriptionYogesh Khandke (talk) 05:56, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I wasn't but I am aware that the Hinduism in southeast Asia and the "colonization" by the Vijayanagar Empire was mainly due to trading, quite different from the European colonization. This is a good article to develop and learn from, I've added it to the watchlist. Thanks for making me aware of it. I might raise a couple of RFCs or something similar in the next month or so. Will you be around? Zuggernaut (talk) 06:07, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There should be a critical mass on the other hand we have wp:TAGTEAM, see there shouldn't gaming, you seem to be a Gandhi bhakta, so to you too the ends perhaps don't justify the means. There are a few editors who don't understand Wikipedia policies and administrators who prefer to look the other way.Yogesh Khandke (talk) 06:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks
... for the image replacement on my user page. :) Best wishes to you, -- J N  466  00:58, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem, I should have chosen a properly copyrighted image the first time. Zuggernaut (talk) 04:27, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for the barnstar! utcursch | talk 15:26, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. Hope you are not in Mumbai at this time of yet another terrorist attack. I also saw that you already created the article. You are fast! Zuggernaut (talk) 15:29, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Quick Note
Some possible problems relating to your edits were brought to my attention; and I wanted to re-iterate that the topic ban is broadly applied - which means you shouldn't be involved in any discussion relating to Indian history, even if not really commenting on Indian history (this relates to your comment on Dougweller's talk page). Whilst it could be argued not to be a direct topic ban violation, it is skirting the edge of it very closely and is best avoided - especially as the intent seems to be to join the discussion w/o technically violating the ban. With that said; the topic of encouraging new editors (that you raised) is an important wiki-wide one which is being discussed at the meta/foundation level - if you can find a place to discuss it that is not in a context related to your topic ban (and avoid bringing Indian history into any discussion) I am sure there is much you can contribute.

More concerning though is giving this barnstar, which is the sort of inappropriate inciting that led to the topic ban. Also the follow up comment, which is definitely over the line of your topic ban. Finally this edit is well over the line and directly discusses the topic of Indian history.

I've specifically decided not to issue a block for those comments because a) they are a few days back and b) you do seem to be making a reasonable effort (if begrudgingly) to operate within the limits of the topic ban. But you have to stop this kind of activity; in the future admins may not be so lenient with your actions. Treat the topic ban extremely conservatively, and if you think you might be verging on violating it, assume you are.

Please take this as a polite but stern warning about edits such as the ones above; avoid them in the future and you will be fine. Thanks. --Errant (chat!) 13:32, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Understood. Thank you. Zuggernaut (talk) 12:13, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Your topic ban
I have been asking you many times about the status of your ban. Z your ban was unnecessary. I have said enough on Errantx's page and ArbCom and on the pages of individual members. As far as I understand, your case was rejected from arbcom not because it didn't hold water but because, in their opinion, all avenues had not been exhausted, please see Errantx's comments, he emphasised that he merely implemented a decision, and if I remember right, he considered a review possible, and that it could be overturned??? I think you should be using all your energies to this issue. Certain articles are badly dealt with, by people who don't have expertise, this has been heard from the highest places, (Ms. Gardner). I suggest that you first work on your ban and then, towards adminship, you are one of the stronger emic editors.Yogesh Khandke (talk) 14:50, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've been getting the same feedback from multiple sources regarding the topic ban. I will be working on it over the next month or so, when I am able to find the time. I do not have an interest in becoming an admin and I do not have the time either. Redtiger would probably be a better choice for an admin who knows India issues well. I see that you are now getting invites for Mumbai meetups. Do you plan to attend? A few more links that might help:
 * Wikimedia Foundation
 * India chapter of Wikimedia
 * India mailing list
 * Zuggernaut (talk) 02:45, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * (1)July is the month for taxes and like, difficult to go to Mumbai, I remember one can attend on Skype, but never done that before. (2)Red perhaps, more the merrier. (3)Well that the ban was one opinion about you was what I understood from Errantx and Arbcom, so officially Arbcom didn't accept your case because all avenues hadn't been explored, which in other words is an advice to you to explore them. You need to work on it. Please prepare thoroughly. Like the contributions of editors that led to your edits that resulted in your ban. It is really flimsy. If you wish I too will devote all my Wiki time for that. Prepare a game plan. Get prints of necessary edits, so that you can look at them carefully. It is very important for the good health of Wikipedia. A favourable verdict would hit at the root of all malise. Presently the look of certain articles and the attitude of editors makes me vomit. Not metaphorically. It actually makes me sick.Yogesh Khandke (talk) 03:32, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * On Gandhi move proposal, you used hindu-nationalist very unkindly, which was unnecessary. Such talk drives a wedge.Yogesh Khandke (talk) 07:19, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the Gandhi post. Regarding the ban, all help is welcome. I will setup a subpage in my userspace to build a draft. I will dig up the diffs where I was involved, if you could contribute by providing the diffs where you discussed with people like ErrantX and other admins, they will certainly be helpful in building a case. Give me 3-4 days. Zuggernaut (talk) 13:25, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * (1)I didn't mean the wedge thing personally, the Gandhi move seeing rare convergence. (2)I don't have the vaguest idea now where to start. (3)What is the status of your ban?Yogesh Khandke (talk) 13:44, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll use a template or something so things will get clearer once I set things up. The topic ban is still on and covers articles on Indian history so I'll be staying away from those. Next steps as ErrantX pointed out may be RFC/U "against myself" which may end in a recommendation to take it to ArbCom. Here's a cautionary quote and diff from an admin who was canvassed to close the topic ban ANI: "If the issue winds up going to Arbcom they will want to see that any community sanctions were based on clear and convincing evidence. I hope that whoever closes the thread will be sure they understand the evidence." Zuggernaut (talk) 13:55, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I hope things get done quick, especially when some things are going about on India related pages. My understanding is that users like you should be in this. I don't think bans should be this long. ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर &#124; असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म..  Humour Thisthat2011  07:05, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * While I would love to improve several articles to GA level initially and then FA level, I am not counting on coming back to articles on Indian history anytime in the near future. Zuggernaut (talk) 06:17, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Zuggernaut. I think they intend to keep your topic ban on forever. There are many other "interesting" areas which have "insufficient" coverage. I am sure you can find areas of interest on your own. You could also drop me a note if you want to know about some such areas. Otherwise, I think, you also have the option of closing this account.-MangoWong (talk) 07:11, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have thus far appealed to ArbCom, Jimmy Wales and sent e-mails to relevant committee members but I have still not exhausted all avenues to get the matter resolved. I am unable to pursue other avenues due to a lack of time and I feel I have to be patient. For the same reason, for now, I am unable to contribute to other areas. I do not plan to give up this username and at the same time, I do not intend to give up my well-sourced positions on Indian matters. Feel free to post on my talk page the articles you think are in need of improvement. I feel this information has to be displayed publicly rather than remain in e-mail folders/inboxes. I will provide you all help I can to have the articles listed in separate sections on the WP:Countering systemic bias and WP:India projects.  Zuggernaut (talk) 02:34, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry case
Your name has been mentioned in connection with a sockpuppetry case. Please refer to Sockpuppet investigations/Zuggernaut for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with the guide to responding to cases before editing the evidence page. Sitush (talk) 12:20, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You owe me, Yogesh Khandke, MangoWang and ThisThat2011 an apology for linking us to user accounts that have been blocked. Once you do that, I'll consider not opening an RFC/U for a colossal failure of the pillars of our project such as WP:AGF, for not notifying Yogesh Khandke and ThisThat2011 of initiating a sockpuppetry case against them, for having a human being look-up my IP address without any reasonable cause at all, for behavioral problems that show absolutely no regard for WP:CIVIL, and for connecting dots that don't exist. Zuggernaut (talk) 13:25, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Already apologised. See the SPI. It was a good faith SPI, as agreed by the SPI clerk. There is no requirement to notify everyone. Feel free to RFC/U me but it will fail and may even boomerang on some of those you mention above. I'll happily meet you there if that is what you want to do. - Sitush (talk) 13:34, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Zuggernaut, Sitush is benign, don't waste resources doing too many things. Best to ignore.Yogesh Khandke (talk) 13:47, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Apology accepted. I hope you guys can work out your differences and work constructively in improving articles. Zuggernaut (talk) 14:02, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Was there a sockpuppetery case opened against me and others? Please clarify when and who all were inspected by requests from your side. ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर &#124; असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म..  Humour Thisthat2011  18:03, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Just got it. Seems it was closed before I could put some comments in and corner some glory. Though I would like to know more about good faith sockpuppet-investigations. Looks like an attractive way go gather good faith points. ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर &#124; असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म..  Humour Thisthat2011  16:38, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Heh, I just stumbled upon that sockpuppet case. Having interacted with you, Yogesh Khanke, and Thisthat2011 to some degree, the idea that you all might be the same person made me snicker (which isn't to say it wasn't done in good faith). Pfly (talk) 09:18, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought to myself after I saw the sockpuppetry case that ignoring this as a WP:COMPETENCE issue for now would be in the best interests of the project. Zuggernaut (talk) 04:45, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Yogesh Khandke
Hi Z,

Thanks for your response on my talk page. I do hope you are coming for the WikiConference in November where I hope to meet you in real life. AshLin (talk) 15:36, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately I won't be making it to the WikiConference. Zuggernaut (talk) 14:54, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * These sorts of things have lots of angles to it. If we have to be effective, just relentless arguing does not seem to be the way to solve this. Such a thing requires a proper study of the issue of "bias" and recommendations and best practices need to come out of this. While I sympathise with your effort to rename Ganges, there may be better things to do, in the meantime while a better strategy is sought. For example, at least it can be improved to GA standard. You may not want FA as name change across FAs is difficult. If you want these issues to be discussed at WikiConference, then you will need to actively involve yourself with the Indian community, to bring awareness and greater interest in these issues. In the meantime, I will speak with India chapter and community representatives about this issue. AshLin (talk) 06:53, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar!
Thanks Zuggernaut. Much appreciated! Veryhuman (talk) 13:51, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
Alternate suggestion as "Swami Rambhadracharya"  Redtigerxyz  Talk 17:22, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I need to read up more on the topic and will comment further after I become conversant with it. Zuggernaut (talk) 02:13, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

GA
Hello mate.. the article which you have nominated as GA has failed because of multiple issues ,It's better if you go for peer review.after making possible corrections you can re-nominate the article thank you.. 16:04, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * OK thanks for your time. Zuggernaut (talk) 02:16, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Maharashtrian Bhakti saints
Template:Maharashtrian Bhakti saints has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. The Evil IP address (talk) 15:43, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The plan was to create and develop and article on Maharashtrian Bhakti saints which is a topic of very substantial interest in Maharashtrian history and the Bhakti tradition. But thanks to a "broadly construed" topic ban, I cannot do that anymore. Feel free to go ahead and delete the template (which currently has a lousy color scheme!). Zuggernaut (talk) 02:15, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
M W ℳ 17:09, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
M W ℳ 15:19, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a ton :)
Thanks a ton for appreciation! It's really encouraging for a newbie like me from my fellow Wikipedian! Cheers,

Ram (talk • contribs) 17:15, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

YGM
Qwyrxian (talk) 03:45, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

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Jagadguru Rambhadracharya
Hi Zuggernaut! Wanted to remind that Jagadguru Rambhadracharya's GA review still needs to be completed, and all the issues raised like copyedit are fixed now, so can u review it now? :) ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛  Talk Email 15:40, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I should be able to look at it in a couple of days. Zuggernaut (talk) 02:52, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
 * A very good first (correct me if wrong) GA review. A detailed and almost exhaustive one. Just 1 thing.. after passing please remember to list the article at Good articles in the proper category. I have done that for Jagadguru Rambhadracharya. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 10:57, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, will keep that in mind next time. Thanks for listing it in the proper category. Zuggernaut (talk) 13:16, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of my comments at talk:MangoWong
I will AGF and presume that your deletion of my reply on talk:MangoWong was accidental rather than intentional. I would appreciate if you would restore my comments immediately.JanetteDoe (talk) 03:14, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Your editing altered the meaning of my comment which was, in fact, rendered meaningless. Per my reading of the talk page guidelines that is not allowed. Sorry, I had to revert. BTW, the sources you provide actually weaken your position about the claim that the word is still in general use. 03:54, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, I would argue that my change was appropriate under Sectioning, as the thread was developing a new subject. And since you were kind enough to quote WP:TPO, I presume you have read at least as far as the third sentence which says: "The basic rule – with some specific exceptions outlined below – is, that you should not edit or delete the comments of other editors without their permission."  Perhaps you can explain, then, why you deleted my comment entirely. JanetteDoe (talk) 04:35, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * From TPO:
 * Never edit or move someone's comment to change its meaning, even on your own talk page.
 * Sectioning: If a thread has developed new subjects, it may be desirable to split it into separate discussions with their own headings or subheadings. When a topic is split into two topics, rather than subsectioned, it is often useful for there to be a link from the new topic to the original and vice versa. A common way of doing this is noting the change at the [then-]end of the original thread, and adding an unobtrusive note under the new heading, e.g. : This topic was split off from, above.. Some reformatting may be necessary to maintain the sense of the discussion to date and to preserve attribution. It is essential that splitting does not inadvertently alter the meaning of any comments.


 * I restored the meaning of my comment (which you moved to a different section) and I had no interest in deleting yours. This discussion is now closed here. Zuggernaut (talk) 05:44, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Cite templates
Hi, why do you change to the sfn template when there is an existing, working template in use? The latest example of this is at Kunbi. - Sitush (talk) 08:48, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


 * To clarify, I have used the short cite format in some articles that I have created. I am just under the impression that, as with spelling, the prevailing format should be adopted by subsequent contributors and have tended to do that myself except where there is a barelink type of situation or a mixture of formats. In the latter case, I try to standardise and use the long cite template because it is the one that has tools which newbies can use etc, plus it does not require separate maintenance of a bibliography. - Sitush (talk) 10:43, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I prefer the Harvard notation in general and this is one of the template that offers it. Due to the advantages listed at sfn, my personal experience has been that it speeds up the development of articles significantly. I generally do not interfere with the notation/sources introduced by others with some exceptions. Zuggernaut (talk) 13:41, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I have no particular preference, aside from being aware of what newbies appear to be most comfortable with. I just thought that it was one of those things that should be standardised in usage throughout an article and that the standard was effectively set by the article's creator. It is this that was my query. Anyway, that's some good info added by you today: I can't see an awful lot of the sources which you have used but I'm pleased both to see more info and to see the weighting shift away from the Raj depictions. The Raj stuff can have its place in an article (& indeed is often trumpeted by members of the various castes themselves), but the weighting really should always be on more modern works, where available. - Sitush (talk) 16:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, will keep the newbie thing in mind the next time I use the template. I hope you won't mind if we standardize to the sfn template for the remaining 3 or 4 sources. I expect the sources to grow as the article grows. Zuggernaut (talk) 01:03, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The bit about newbies is just a frequently voiced opinion (ie: a lot of people say it, not I say it a lot!) You don't have to accept it. If you want to standardise on sfn for the article then I have no problem with that. It is the unilateral change of style that was concerning me but, hey, you and I are the two major contributors and I'm happy to go with sfn in these circumstances. Again, good work. I wonder if the same sources could be used for a lot of the single-sentence community articles? - Sitush (talk) 08:32, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Singh's work for the AnSI is vast and exhaustive spanning many, many volumes. You can pretty much find every single Indian community in the volumes. Some of the information may be out of date but it can definitely yield two, three or four paragraphs for each community. Zuggernaut (talk) 12:55, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I have a big problem with Singh as much of it is unavailable to me online & I am not in a position often to get to a library (health, etc). I also have a problem that I cannot prove, which is that many of the bits which I can see appear to adopt a similar approach to the Raj sources: massive generalisation, poor sourcing etc. But, hey, they are backed by the ANSI & so are reliable regardless of my misgivings.
 * BTW, I use WP:RX quite often to resolve the online issues and it is great, but I can't start asking for 1000 pages of a single volume, obviously. I think sometimes that people forget that there are plenty of good faith contributors out there who are working with the tools available to them and that, yes, this sometimes can lead to weighting issues etc. I'm pretty experienced regarding judgement of a source and how to include it ... but I cannot include stuff that is not available to me and/or is completely unknown. For that reason, Wikipedia will continue to be a work in progress. I have learned much from my involvement with it and while I do realise that a fair few India contributors doubt my intentions etc, I really do have an open mind and have become fascinated with the history side of things (history has generally been my delight from a young age). I have learned much and hope to continue. - Sitush (talk) 02:13, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The Mahararashtra volume of the ANSI work is in 3 parts (3 books) with communities listed alphabetically so all that's needed is the one part which contains entries from 'K'. Actually Google books does have a partial view of the book (I don't know why you are seeing only snippets). The volumes were published in India and cost somewhere around inr 2000 for the 3 parts a few years back. Zuggernaut (talk) 03:12, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Weigh in?
Would you like to weigh in at the discussion in Talk:India on some 40 odd images? I know that's a lot, but a simple Yes/No would be adequate. Of course, if you choose to comment at more length, it would be even better. The India page is now the second most-viewed country page (after the US) and the 15th page overall, so having a set of high quality representative pictures becomes even more imperative. Regards, Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  16:59, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Email
How can i enable my email? Nikkul (talk) 02:14, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Go to the "My preferences" link you see at the top after you login or click Special:Preferences which will also take you there directly. Then look for the "E-mail options" section where you can enter your e-mail address and several settings. Zuggernaut (talk) 01:47, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks for the recognition Utcursch! Zuggernaut (talk) 13:45, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!!

 * Thanks for the recognition and more importantly for your contributions to the article. Zuggernaut (talk) 13:44, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Looking at recent developments at talk:Kunbi, it appears your nerves will be put through further tests. Best you stay off the article (just don't look at it) for some time at least and not engage in one sided, uncivilized discourses.<font color="red" face="Lucida Calligraphy">M <font color="green" face="Lucida Calligraphy">W ℳ 03:08, 20 October 2011 (UTC)