User talk:~seaofstars~

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Thanks for email.

You have an obvious conflict of interest, please don't write about yourself, your friends or relatives and read the guidance below:
 * When you write about a person, you must provide independent verifiable sources to enable us to verify the facts and show that they meet the notability guidelines. Sources that are not acceptable include those linked to the person or an associated organisation, press releases, YouTube, IMDB, social media and other sites that can be self-edited, blogs, websites of unknown or non-reliable provenance, and sites that are just reporting what the person claims or interviewing them. Note that references should be in-line so we can tell what fact each is supporting, and should not be bare urls.


 * You had no references at all


 * Without sources, we can't establish whether she meets the notability criteria linked above


 * You must write in a non-promotional tone. Articles must be neutral and encyclopaedic, with verifiable facts, not opinions or reviews.


 * You refer to her as "Mary", which is unencyclopaedic, and express your opinion that Mary’s cheerful and friendly personality helped her gain popularity among the listeners. Being effectively bilingual, she has hosted numerous corporate functions, media launches, press conferences and charity shows.


 * There shouldn't be any url links in the article, only in the "References" or "External links" sections.
 * You had multiple spamlinks to mediacorp and other broadcasters. Note also that you shouldn't link to Wikipedia pages like Beautiful Connection with external links


 * You must not copy text from elsewhere. Copyrighted text is not allowed in Wikipedia, as outlined in this policy. That applies even to pages created by you or your organisation, unless they state clearly and explicitly that the text is public domain. We require that text posted here can be used, modified and distributed for any purpose, including commercial; text is considered to be copyright unless explicitly stated otherwise. There are ways to donate copyrighted text to Wikipedia, as described here; please note that simply asserting on the talk page that you are the owner of the copyright, or you have permission to use the text, isn't sufficient.


 * I didn't check, but the lack of wikilinks or references is suspicious

Before attempting to write an article again, please make sure that the topic meets the notability criteria linked above, and check that you can find independent third party sources. Also read Your first article.

If you are writing about yourself, or someone you know as a friend, colleague, client, employer or relative, you have a conflict of interest, and you must disclose the nature of that COI.

If you work directly or indirectly for an organisation related to her, or otherwise are acting on its behalf, you are very strongly discouraged from attempting to write an article at all. If you are paid directly or indirectly by the organisation you are writing about, you are  required by the Wikimedia Terms of Use to disclose your employer, client and affiliation. You can post such a mandatory disclosure to your user page at User:. The template Paid can be used for this purpose – e.g. in the form:   . If you are being compensated, please provide the required disclosure. Note that editing with a COI is discouraged, but permitted as long as it is declared. Concealing a COI can lead to a block. Please do not edit further until you respond to this message. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 12:44, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * could you at least give me a copy of the codes. Please? I spent the whole day on this ~seaofstars~ (talk) 12:47, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * it's not paid. voluntary to help ~seaofstars~ (talk) 12:48, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I forgot to thank you for responding. Thank you Jimfbleak. It helps that you are responding ~seaofstars~ (talk) 13:05, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * References - I added external links as references to the text in article. Is it not visible?
 * I can't correct my errors without the wiki codes I spent hours googling.
 * Please at least return me the codes so i may correct according to your advice? ~seaofstars~ (talk) 13:04, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * If you want me to see a message, you can post it on my talk page. You can alternatively leave a message on this page, and I will know you have done so if you start it with my user name, User:Jimfbleak and sign it with four tildes ~ when you post it. That will send me an alert. Otherwise, I won't know


 * External links are nor references, which should be in line and formatted using see Citing sources. For a living person, everything you state should have an in-line independent third-party source. I'll sandbox your text shortly. When I do so, I'll remove inappropriate material that you should not restore. I'm not sure about the filmography, the minor parts don't see sufficient for Notability (people) Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:12, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Test message to @Jimfbleak
 * ~seaofstars~ (talk) 14:28, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Testing your advice on messaging you ~seaofstars~ (talk) 14:28, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Test worked, restored at User:~seaofstars~/Mary Bukoh I made these edits I've declined DoubleGrazing's G11 request for now to give you a chance to improve the text, but you need to take your time and get it right or oit will be deleted again. Also you must clarify what you mean by "voluntary to help". Do you have a connection to her or the companies involved? If so, you must clarify Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:01, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Jimfbleak Thank you. I will not rush this time. Voluntary to help as in, I asked if she would like me to help do up a wiki for her as other DJs in Singapore have their own - to which she responded okay. I assure you I am not paid, not connected to her organisation. I had thought I should hyperlink where there are existing wiki pages for example "Mediacorp". I did not mean to advertise for Mediacorp and am not keen to do so. ~seaofstars~ (talk) 15:16, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * There shouldn't be any hyperlinks in the text, just one wikilink if an article exists, as it does for Mediacorp. External links have wikilinks, but should be kept to a minimum, and without social media links Jimfbleak - <i style="font-family:arial;color:green">talk to me?</i> 15:21, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Mary Bukoh (April 11)
<div style="border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: #F8EEBC; padding: 0.5em 1em; color: #000; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by DoubleGrazing were:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to User:~seaofstars~/Mary Bukoh and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=User:~seaofstars~/Mary_Bukoh Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DoubleGrazing&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=User:~seaofstars~/Mary_Bukoh reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:50, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of User:~seaofstars~/Mary Bukoh


A tag has been placed on User:~seaofstars~/Mary Bukoh, requesting that it be deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under two or more of the criteria for speedy deletion, by which pages can be deleted at any time, without discussion. If the page meets any of these strictly-defined criteria, then it may soon be deleted by an administrator. The reasons it has been tagged are:
 * It seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. (See section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion.) Please read the guidelines on spam and FAQ/Organizations for more information.
 * It appears to consist of writings, information, discussions, and/or activities not closely related to Wikipedia's goals. Please note that Wikipedia is not a free Web hosting service. (See section U5 of the criteria for speedy deletion.)

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:52, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Managing a conflict of interest
Hello, ~seaofstars~. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:


 * avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization, clients, or competitors;
 * propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the request edit template);
 * disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Conflict of interest);
 * avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Spam);
 * do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. ''This is regarding Mary Bukoh. --'' DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:53, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * @DoubleGrazing Thank you for your advice. I wil re-try the text I used but i assure you i'm not paid to do this and i am not pretending to be her. ~seaofstars~ (talk) 15:13, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, but you've clearly been in contact with her, as you explain above. You've also uploaded two photos of her, described as your 'own work'. My advice is to declare your COI, as instructed in this thread. Thank you. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:25, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @DoubleGrazing Thanks for responding. When I uploading the picture, it was defaulted to 'own work'. I will refer to the guidelines provided by yourself and @Jimfbleak when i re-try this. Thanks both for advice - it helps ~seaofstars~ (talk) 15:42, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @DoubleGrazing Sorry. Missed responding to this "you've clearly been in contact with her, as you explain above" - Yes. i wanted her consent before I did this page up to avoid violation of her rights or whatever it's called. I can confirm I am not connected with her organisation and am definitely not paid to do this ~seaofstars~ (talk) 15:44, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Paid editing isn't the only type of COI. If I were to write about a friend or a family member, they probably wouldn't pay me a penny, but I would very much have a COI because of my external relationship with them. But at the end of the day, I can only advise you to declare a COI; I cannot force you to.
 * As for the images, the upload wizard doesn't default to 'own work', AFAIK; it asks you to click on either 'own work' or 'not own work', with neither option pre-selected. If these aren't your images, then by uploading them you may have released their copyright into the public domain, and the actual copyright holder could take issue with that. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:57, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @DoubleGrazing Hi again, i refer to the article on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest#How_to_disclose_a_COI - there were three options to added a COI so i chose option 3 which I just tried and it seems to be reflecting on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:~seaofstars~
 * Hope it's done correctly ~seaofstars~ (talk) 16:10, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:15, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * As for the image, DoubleGrazing, as always I suspect "my image" claims, because they often are anything but. However, i couldn't find the image elsewhere on a cursory search, and since it's taken at a reasonably public event, I'm prepared to AGF for now <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - <i style="font-family:arial;color:green">talk to me?</i> 18:11, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @DoubleGrazing@Jimfbleak Dear Both, I have now added inline citations, full citation to Ref section, rewrote the text to remove opinions and remove hyperlinks to organisations to avoid any misunderstanding of advertisements for them. If you have any time, please take a look? Thanks for your time. ~seaofstars~ (talk) 05:28, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Comment
Much of the text remains unsourced, her own website and Mediacorp are not independent third-party sources, and even if the newspaper is an independent source (I can't read it, so i don't know) it's sourcing a factoid that has no bearing on her possible notability <b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b> - <i style="font-family:arial;color:green">talk to me?</i> 08:18, 12 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks @Jimfbleak for responding. I am not sure how to do the independent source part. For example, I went to the Nanyang Technological University website and checked if I can get a verification that she graduated there. It does say she graduated from the university in 1995 but due to data privacy concerns, that's all it would show. ~seaofstars~ (talk) 08:50, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't really want to get drawn into reviewing and co-editing this draft (if you want a proper review, you should submit it for review at Articles for Creation), but let me explain the concept of notability, in case it hasn't been explained before. This is a core requirement for any subject to be included in Wikipedia, and it essentially hinges on what other sources have said about the subject (so much so, that Wikipedia articles should be written by summarising what such sources say, nothing more, nothing less). Most subjects' notability is determined by reference to the WP:GNG general notability guideline, which requires
 * significant coverage (not just passing mentions, 'capsule' profiles, etc.)
 * directly of the subject (not of indirectly related matters, and also not topics which the subject is commenting on)
 * in multiple (how many exactly, is not specified, but usually thought to mean three or more)
 * secondary sources (ie. newspapers, magazines, TV and radio programmes, books, etc. – excludes first-person accounts such as interviews, blogs, etc., as well as the likes of corporate or university websites, newsletters, and so on)
 * which are reliable (ie. have a reputation for editorial oversight and fact-checking; this rules out many mainstream publications, even, such as The Daily Mail and NY Post)
 * and independent of the subject (ie. not connected to it directly or indirectly).
 * Note that each source which you wish to count towards notability must satisfy all of these conditions at once; in other words, it isn't enough to have some sources that are secondary (but not reliable) while others are reliable (but not secondary).
 * If you can cite such sources, then you may be able to have an article accepted; otherwise, not. Currently your draft cites no such source (the Sin Chew Daily as a publication is probably okay, but the article in question doesn't seem to support anything in the draft, or at best an irrelevant factoid as Jimfbleak already mentioned).
 * HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:16, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for this. Yes it's helpful. The Sin Chew Daily is a newspaper in Malaysia and unfortunately not an English publication. I have heard Mary Bukoh talk about this on-air over the radio that she confirms the story behind her unusual surname. It seems I need to google more for additional sources to cite the text. I will try that. ~seaofstars~ (talk) 10:21, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @DoubleGrazing, I found more coverage on her tonight. Some are government agency websites (Singapore). I hope this is closer to the requirement you've shared. Keen to learn from you and @Jimfbleak and again, thank you ~seaofstars~ (talk) 16:12, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I can see that you've added more sources, but no, unfortunately they don't really take you closer to demonstrating notability, being all primary sources and/or passing mentions. Don't keep adding more sources like that, you will eventually get into the area of refbombing which won't help at all. A few solid sources is always better than a large number of useless ones. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:31, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * this is really difficult ~seaofstars~ (talk) 16:41, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It is difficult, impossible in fact, to make a non-notable subject notable. Notability either exists, or it doesn't; no amount of editing can magic it out of thin air.
 * BTW, you cannot cite Wikipedia (incl. the Chinese-language version) as a source on Wikipedia. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:45, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * i have removed the chinese wikipedia references following your advice @DoubleGrazing. ~seaofstars~ (talk) 16:57, 12 April 2023 (UTC)