Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive264

Huge sockpuppetry problem
We've been dealing with a load of sockpuppets screwing with the Witton Albion F.C. recently. They have odd usernames like Mane trim and Noon went. At the same time, it appears that Northwich Victoria F.C. is being attacked by socks with names like Mane mane and Tree three. When both articles are protected from new users...the socks start coming out. A brief look through the attackers of both articles will show that the socks are made on the same days. This guy is making about ten to fifteen accounts every two or three days and waiting to use them. The most recent wave to attack both articles were made on the 7th of this month. This guy has patience. Any ideas what to do? IrishGuy talk 19:10, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * You could try "Requests for IP check" at WP:RFCU to identify and block the underlying IP, if possible. Many checkusers will list other obvious sleeper accounts when performing a check. MastCell Talk 19:15, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think he is using a static IP. He only brings out the sleeper accounts when he needs an older one. If there is no protection on a page, he just uses brand new accounts. Everytime they are blocked, he just makes a new one. As you can see here he even taunts Come on boys, set your best Checkuser on me. because he knows he can switch IPs. IrishGuy talk 19:19, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * If there's nothing that can be accomplished via checkuser (and I'd still recommend giving it a shot), then I don't know what else can be done other than semi-protection and revert, block, ignore. MastCell Talk 19:38, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you tried to get the IP addresses blocked? Assuming it isn't possible to block the underlying IP address got me once. I finally got fed up and submitted the user for an IP address check and got some ranges blocked. Since then the user has been pretty much non-existent. --Bobblehead (rants) 19:42, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * He has used an IP address a few times. They were 86.139.246.131, 86.139.244.206 and 86.139.240.167 that is how I know it is the same person on both articles. He can change it so quickly that individual IP blocks are useless. I don't know how big the range is so I feared collateral damage with a wide rangeblock. IrishGuy talk 20:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd still submit them for an IP check. Let the person running the check decide if they can block or not. You may also want to request the person keep a record of the IP addresses so you can file a report at WP:ABUSE and maybe get BT to shutdown their account. --Bobblehead (rants) 20:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, the IP checkuser came back with: IP is different every day, across several A class ranges. Any other ideas? The whack-a-mole thing is getting annoying. IrishGuy talk 02:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Does this stay in borders of WP:CIVIL?
This edit just cropped up in my watchlist and I felt It could use a comment from admins.--Alexia Death 19:48, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * While I'm not an admin, that falls under WP:CIVIL like the Pope falls under Judaism: i.e. it doesn't by a long shot. Will (talk) 20:11, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Repeated personal attacks and UserPage vandalism by User:PageantUpdater
On June 18, User:PageantUpdater left a message on her user and talk pages   asking the project to "f*ck off".

One day later, June 19, she updated the messages explaining she was leaving Wikipedia.

But just 2 days after her goodbye message, on June 21, she came back in an DRV discussion to call fellow Wikipedians "F*KING IGNORANT", "IMBECILES" and suggested that Wikipedia has "gone down the toilet". She said that it was that what brought her to leave Wikipedia.

Just on they later, (June 22) she was apparently back to normal editing, when she created one article [ and added a free image to two articles . All very good!

But today she just came back and, apart from some apparently normal editions, called Wikipedians "imbecile", showed intentions to ignore WP:NPA when she see fits and vandalized User:Fuzzy510's page   to call him (and another user named Carlton) a "f*cking arsehole" and to ask him to f*ck himself and to go to "hell".

Also today, she updated here userpage to say that "everyone here is a f*cking arsehole".

DISCLAIMER: I have to let you know that this user is involved (but not very active) in an Arbitration Case against me, so, I may have a bit of personal prejudice on how I read all these "f*ck you" in her comments. --Abu badali (talk) 20:16, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this crap doesn't fly with me. User was warned, persisted in doing it anyway, and is now blocked for 24h.  -- Merope 20:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * For the sake of accuracy: Insults are not necessarily personal attacks. Only if said insults are used to dismiss arguments in an ad hominem form does it qualify.  Under WP:NPA, threatening behaviour also qualifies.  See personal attack for the nuances of the term.
 * That said, the PageantUpdater is definitely having some trouble with Civility. –Gunslinger47 20:28, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I don't now if any of this is really a personal attack per se, but the Fuzzy510 diff (which appears to be in response to an AFD notice Fuzz510 left at PageantUpdater's talkpage) absolutely warrented a block. I understand that it sucks to see your work get nominated for deletion, but that sort of response simply is not helpful. The "everyone is a fucking arsehole" bit I'd just chalk up to frustration...--Isotope23 20:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, at least calling the other parties in an DRV discussion "F*KING IGNORANT" and "IMBECILES" is an uncivil ad hominem argument, right? Anyway, thanks for dealing with her. --Abu badali (talk) 20:56, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I have unblocked due to the editor apparently having calmed down and promising not to be disruptive or be uncivil. Obviously if this promise is broken a block is in order. --W.marsh 01:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I wish someone had brought my attention to this section earlier, although perhaps its better that I have come to it with a clear head and a desire to move forward. I apologise for my atrocious behaviour, although in all honesty I cannot apologise for the essence of my message.  I hope the former is enough for now.  I promise that I will refrain from incivility in the future and keep my head down for a while.  I found that I love editing too much to go... although the collaborative side of Wikipedia is certainly not as much fun as it once was.  PageantUpdater 05:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Continued personal attacks by Isaiah13066
Nandesuka 04:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I came across this edit by and warned him against making personal attacks. He continued (the user's last name is Cox but Isaiah13066 is calling him Cocks). So I gave him a final warning to which he did this to. The user was previously blocked 48 hours for making personal attacks. Paul Cyr 20:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Those diffs would prompt me to block him, but I note that they're all from 2-3 days ago. His more recent edits, while uncivil, seem slightly more constructive. I'm feeling like blocking him for those older posts now would be punitive rather than preventive; however, I'm all for having a zero-tolerance policy from here forward, given the inappropriateness of those earlier remarks and the fact that he's been adequately warned. MastCell Talk 21:16, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've also notified Isiah of this discussion on his talk page. MastCell Talk 21:18, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I hope that my posts were ok. I was trying to stay civil.  But in any case, I actually did apologized to him on his Talk Page if I upset him.  If it matters, I'd vote to not block him and give him the benefit of the doubt.  Michaelcox 01:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This edit, on 28 June, seems pure vandalism. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 01:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That edit is from 28 February, methinks. Unless you're with the Precrime Division... MastCell Talk 02:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry (not really) about my zero-tolerance for stupidity Isaiah13066 03:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * 7 day block due to my zero-tolerance for incivility (see user's talk page history, as well). Nandesuka 04:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Good block, we don't have to put up with this.--Jersey Devil 04:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, good block; I'd have done the same once he made those further edits. MastCell Talk 04:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Incivility and forgery by Cberlet
There have been edit disputes going on at Lyndon LaRouche and United States v. LaRouche for several weeks now. The discussion on the talk pages and in edit summaries has been fairly heated on both sides of the disputes, although I would say the worst incivility has come primarily from User:Cberlet and User:Dking. I and others have asked the editors in these disputes to tone it down. However, today an incident took place which I think crosses the line. In this edit, Cberlet deleted a comment by User:Don't lose that number and substituted a different text, so he effectively forged a post by Don't lose that number. I think this incident requires some sort of administrative action. --Marvin Diode 21:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That's not forgery, that's refactoring. The link you provided shows Cberlet changing the heading of the poll he started and refactoring the comments of another user to conform with a poll. While I don't think polls are generally helpful, I've seen this done frequently before where someone adds a comment to a "vote". Regarding the incivility charge, the "pro-LaRouche" editors, particularly, have a habit of making negative personal remarks about Cberlet and Dking , and have been warned. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 21:58, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * A different text? Qué? It's exactly the same text. Did you not scroll all the way down on the diff, or something? I think your charge of "forgery" here on ANI requires some sort of apology to Cberlet. Bishonen | talk 22:10, 25 June 2007 (UTC).


 * I would prefer that Cberlet not edit an article in which he has such a strong personal vested interest (he is named several times and his publications are cited as sources). However there is nothing wrong with that diff. Thatcher131 22:18, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * As many have pointed out, a problem with our COI guideline is that it penalizes editors with known affiliations while exempting more anonymous users who may have equal or greater conflicts. The LaRouche-related articles have long been the subject of attention from pro-LaRouche editors (and their sock puppets). Overall, I'd say that Cberlet may have less of a COI than many of the involved editors, but there is no way of unequivocally establishing that fact. Removing "anti-LaRouche" editors while allowing the "pro-LaRouche" editors to remain would not result in better articles. The alternative we're stuck with is dealing with protracted, and sometimes rancorous, disputes on these pages. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 22:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * On rereading WP:COI, I see it does contain exemptions for those in Cberlet's situation.
 * An article about a little-known band should preferably not be written by a band member or the manager. However, an expert on climate change is welcome to contribute to articles on that subject, even if that editor is deeply committed to the subject.
 * You may cite your own publications just as you'd cite anyone else's, but make sure your material is relevant and that you're regarded as a reliable source for the purposes of Wikipedia.
 * I believe that Cberlet and Dking have complied with WP:COI. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 22:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Cberlet created an entirely new poll question and signed Don't Lose That Number's username to one of the answers. This was apparently intended to mock Don't Lose That Number for his previous comment -- Cberlet's edit summary was "(Is this formulation of your views correct User:Don't lose that number?)." Then, Don't Lose That Number's previous post was added as a "comment" to the new poll. This is not "refactoring." Don't Lose That Number later removed this creation with the edit summary "not my doing." Please take a second look at this edit, and you will see that it was not just an innocent moving of text. The creation of a new poll question and the adding of the username to an answer adds up to attributing an opinion to Don't Lose That Number that he apparently does not subscribe to. --Marvin Diode 05:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Trolling by anons on Talk:Mudkip
Over the past month or two, a dispute over an internet meme from 4chan has been debated on Talk:Mudkip. When I joined the argument (against the meme), things turned south quickly, leading to several long arguments on my talk page and Talk:Mudkip, partially because I was playing the "hardline policy" card. About a few weeks ago, two anonymous users - and  - have been playing devil's-advocate on the page, and seem to be doing it to get a rise out of myself and out of. Is there anything that can be done to stop this madness one way or another? -Jeske ( v^_^v ) 21:34, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll put in a request at WP:RPP to semiprotect the page so that anonymous users cannot edit it. Such action is unheard of for talk pages, but it's justified in this instance. Shalom Hello 21:53, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I have another note to add: 64.40.60.55 tried to impersonate Ksy92003. -Jeske ( v^_^v ) 21:57, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've left a note on the talk, but seeing as most IPs anywhere on Wiki can't even be bothered to read comments, I doubt anyone's going to take notice. Will (talk) 23:27, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The IPs that care do, and have been so nice as to rebut me in no uncertain terms. -Jeske ( v^_^v ) 00:40, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Possible external link spam
User:72.181.40.126 has been rapidly adding links to "thebusinessmakers.com", which appears to be a podcast series, to multiple articles - see the contributions list. The links tend to be tailored to the articles to which they're added (interviews with article subjects, etc.), but the sheer number is beginning to become alarming. Could use some admin attention. JavaTenor 21:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Reverted and warned; adding links like that is never OK. I'll be watching their contributions and seeing if they start up again. Veinor (talk to me) 21:49, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * If this continues, please make a request on m:Talk:Spam blacklist. Nacon kantari  22:42, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Death threat
- and extreme incivility at best. Corvus cornix 22:58, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Blocked for a week, hope it's static. WHOIS traces the IP to Ontario. Any known public enemies from Ontario? Grand  master  ka  23:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Might want to ask User:Utcursch if he has any ideas.  Corvus cornix 23:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Most probably this is same as 74.117.108.166 (another IP that traces to Toronto, Ontario) -- I had blocked the user for 24 hours. The user had vandalized the same article (Ball). utcursch | talk 04:40, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Probable disruptive sock
created this AfD (which I closed early). The user in question had no other contribs outside of making the AfD, and tagging the page. Any comments as to who? Kwsn (Ni!) 23:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You didn't remove the AfD tag from the article. Corvus cornix 23:11, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks for reminding me.  Kwsn (Ni!) 23:12, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Cheers. :)  Corvus cornix 23:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Juppiter
I don't want to issue a block for a dispute I'm involved in, so I encourage someone else to look into it and block. Here's the story: Thanks. — M ETS 501 (talk) 23:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * He was blocked on July 3, 2006 for 24 hours for vandalism of User:OrphanBot after receiving a message about an image he had uploaded.
 * He was blocked for a week on July 4, 2006 for personal attacks such as this
 * Today, he posted this, and I warned him with this
 * He came back at me with this
 * He also moved the OrphanBot page. Seems like he just flipped out. --MichaelLinnear 23:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I think he might, just might, be a sockpuppet of banned User:Karmafist. That sort of conduct is totally unacceptable -- uploading inappropriate, and illegal images, is not a "content" dispute.  --Haemo 23:46, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think so Karmafist had extensive checkusers run on him in the past. Juppiter is probably just his friend. --MichaelLinnear 23:50, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Blocked for two weeks. -- Merope 23:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

vandalism by User:Angus Lepper
He keeps vandalising the poverty in Pakistan article to push his POV and makes threats against me in his last few edit summaries.Please do something about this troll.-Chowk 23:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, it appears that it is you who are adding POV statements. You continue to add the unreferenced statements: Many in Pakistan have turned to Islamist terrorism and antisemitism because they see the west and the jews as a scapegoat for most of their social and political problems. and it is, correctly, being removed. As Angus Lepper noted on your talk page, please read WP:CITE and WP:NPOV. IrishGuy talk 23:50, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Add WP:AGF to that for good measure.--Atlan (talk) 00:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Movie copyvios from AOL IPs
Be on the lookout for copyvio plot summaries being added by AOL IPs. I have just reverted a bunch of additions by and  that were just movie reviews from wire services. In the case of the latter IP, the descriptions were added on June 18 and have been sitting there for a week. --BigDT 00:59, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Dragon panda from the west - Removal of DB-nonsense tag
insists on removing a DB-nonsense tag from a (probably) nonsense article. Has been warned about this & has continued to do so. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * You gave him a last warning, after which he hasn't made any edits yet. Report him to WP:AIV if he removes the tag again.--Atlan (talk) 02:03, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry i don't see that as Patent nonsense What I see is a probable hoax, and there are good reasons why merly probable hoaxes, as opposed to admitted or velrly confirmed ones, are not speedy targets. I'm going to remove the tag, replace it with hoax, and prod it. DES (talk) 06:01, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Admin nullifed a vote and discussion in UCFD.

 * The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

An admin characterized the vote and discussion at this UCFD as "result was delete" and nullified the vote and discussion on the basis of undisclosed and undiscussed "similar" categories.

In the DR as Ramdrake points out the actual vote was 30:11 Keep.

Apart from the merits of Keep and Delete, the admin did not participate in the discussion and vote and therefore there was no discussion and no disclosure of these so-called similar deletions and their relevance to the specific categories which were the actual subject of the UCFD.


 * This "result was delete" was arbitrary and, in fact, counter to the actual discussion and vote, and needs a speedy Overturn. patsw 01:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:DRV is that way. Sean William ‹‹‹ 01:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I notice what the policy says, what the vote says, and what happens often do not match. Perhaps I am missing something fundamental. Until(1 == 2) 01:51, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

This is what DR is for. Quite frankly, I find the propensity of some to treat closing a discussion like a "super !vote". The closing admin should apply overriding policies and then look for a consensus. Being an admin doesn't mean that your opinion counts more than anyone else's. If you disagree with the consensus and there is not an inviolate policy to consider (like BLP, copyrights), then tough cookies. That said, this issue is on DRV so there really isn't anything to discuss here. I would strongly suggest, for all sides to think about, that the best solution by far - one that was suggested in the CFD and would meet most objections either way - is to simply remove these categories from userboxes. Userbox categories are essentially worthless for anything other than babel boxes. When people are adding 50 userboxes to their page, the odds that they would be of assistance in writing about all of those topics are remote. But if we removed categories from userboxes and you were only in a cat you really cared about ... well ... that's useful. --BigDT 02:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This is an informal complaint against the admin who issued "result was delete" without (a) participation in the discussion and vote, (b) then citing "similar deletions" without their disclosure or discussion, and (c) disregarding (or selectively applying) the actual vote and discussion. This WP:ANI is a procedural complaint of arbitrary action by an admin. The merits of Keep and Delete for the UCFD are in the DR.  patsw 02:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I see you haven't asked the admin in question for an explanation yet, you went straight to this page. Anyway, it's common for an admin to close an AFD in which he/she was not involved. I don't understand why you complain about that. Also, the votes and comments in the discussion will be weighed at the closing admin's discretion. It's not a simple count. Like the others told you, if you disagree with the decision, you need to go to DRV.--Atlan (talk) 02:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes. Talk to the admin yourself before coming here; it's way friendlier and things get done faster. --Masamage ♫ 02:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

FYI, the closing admin usually is one that does not participate in the discussion. I never count votes in AfD or CfD discussions, I read the arguments and weight them against their pertinence and compliance with established understanding and policy. I closed with delete, given the fact that other similar categories have been deleted on the same basis. There is consensus in the community that these type of categories are not useful, are divisive, and do not help the project. Users can add themselves to categories such as Wikipiedians interested in XXXX, that are neutral categories that can help the project. I synthesized the comments: there were these that want it deleted, and there were those that wanted it kept on the basis that these categories can assist editors in finding each other for consultation. The comments in favor of keeping are addressed by the fact that "Wikipedians interested in XXX" can be used for the purpose raised in these arguments. If there are disagreements, WP:DRV is the mechanism to contest a close, where this is now being discussed. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

75.117.51.131
This IP address has repeatedly posted unsourced information about "upcoming" virtual console releases. They will not stop, even after a message asking they not to was left. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=75.117.51.131 LN3000 01:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Lamename, that's a violation of WP:3RR. Next time you see that, you should report the offender to WP:AN3RR.  The standard remedy is a 24h block for the IP address. Shalom Hello 03:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Looks like a continuation of this behavior. He left a comment on DDima's talk which I found to be a bit agressive (it looked to me like it was directed at DDima). I replied to it on both DDima's talk page and Ghirlandajo's talk page.

A few hours later, I got a message on my talk page accusing me of trolling. I asked Ghirlandajo about it, but didn't get an answer.

It looks to me like a violation of the warning mentioned here: Requests for arbitration/AndriyK. This user's history of disputes is mentioned here: Requests for comment/Ghirlandajo. — Alex(U 01:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure that a violation of an ArbCom warning has serious consequences. I would suggest a block, but I'm sure administrators know these policies better than I do. — Alex(U 02:03, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It looks to me like an extremely petty content dispute that is getting blown out of proportion, and I can't see how this should lead to anyone getting blocked. You've cited an RfC that appears to be largely irrelevant, not an ArbCom case. But what do I know. Grand  master  ka  02:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've examined the diffs--thank you for providing them--and see no need for blocks or other actions. Jehochman Talk 02:16, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * You were a bit agressive in your comment (really more of a warning) on Ghirlandajo's talk page... so it's not surprising that he didn't respond super-politely. I personally find his stance on infoboxes to be annoying but whatever... nothing wrong with having an opinion. It doesn't really seem like he's done anything wrong here. --W.marsh 02:20, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'd rather be safe, that's why I posted it here. Thanks for commenting. — Alex(U 02:28, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Lava_lamp
<div class="boilerplate metadata discussion-archived" style="background-color: #dedaca; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

I understand that there is some sort of copyright issue going on, but that isn't my concern. My concern is that I found it using Special:shortpages, even though there is an invisible comment which states it is supposed to avoid that list. Is there something going on?--Flamgirlant 02:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's been blanked due to OTRS actions for almost a week now. However, the 'short pages' comment-text was only added today & as the short pages page itself is populated from a snapshot of cache, it took its 'snapshot' of the page when it was at 0 bytes. - A l is o n  ☺ 02:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I see. So as long as it never hits zero, it should be fine, right? --Flamgirlant 02:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep. Don't ask what that threshold is, though, as I've no idea! :) - A l is o n  ☺ 02:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The threshhold for appearing on the shortpages list is a moving target, but currently is tending to be around 106 characters. The key is that the cached versions only lists 1,000 pages.  So it includes the shortest 1,000 pages at the moment it is run.  It tends to be run every 3-4 days currently, and will likely be run either later today or tomorrow.  If you like working with shortpages, you might also want to check out User:Zorglbot/Shortpages.  This is a bot generated parsing of the special::shortpages data, and nicely categorizes the contents of the shortpages data.  The Zorglbot report is also run daily, so while it cannot pick up newly shorted pages until the master cache is updated, it at least nicely shows the current status of all those pages that were on the previous master cache.
 * As for the invisible comment, that reflects back to the 1,000 article limit for the cache data. I tend to drop that comment on a variety of pages that show up on the shortpages list, but really are not needing attention from regular short pages patrollers.  Salting templates, Wiktionary soft redirect, copyvio notices, and the blanked Lava Lamp page.  All these are pages that show up on the list, but really do not need attention from the short pages patrollers.  And every one of these that I can bump down off the list is one more page that can make it into the 1,000 that may actually benefit from the attention of the patrollers. - TexasAndroid 13:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Would using the term "lava lamp" within the context of a scholarly article qualify as fair use? I think it would. Also, my understanding of the law on this is that owning a trademark does not give one carte blanche to force others to use it, as seems to be the case here. Trademark is meant to prevent other commercial entities from creating products that can be mistaken for the trademark holder's products. Since Wikipedia is not producing lava lamps motion lamps, calling the article about l**a l**ps "L**a l**p" should not be a problem. Besides, the term entered common currency long ago. At least they're leaving Volcano alone ... for now. --Dynaflow  babble  09:53, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Another OTRS drive-by... I've restored it to a stub-level article. It would be nice if the OTRS guy came back at some point to fix the article but... don't hold your breath. --W.marsh 02:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * This I've gotta see: what possible OTRS issue can there be about Lava lamp? Especially one that requires blanking? --Calton | Talk 02:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * See the article's talk page... some kind of corporate trademark thing. Similar to Frisbee at a glance. --W.marsh 03:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I recommend you don't actually stub it as the issue (from the edit history) is over whether the term "lava lamp" can constitute a genericized trademark or not. Your edits just now say that yes, it is, and it's obvious that Haggerty Enterprises disagree. Not sure if I want to go there ... - A l is o n  ☺ 03:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * So improve it. But I see nothing in the current version claiming it's a genericized trademark. It just describes what a lava lamp/Lava Lamp looks like. --W.marsh 03:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that we should have notified User_talk:Swatjester before going ahead and adding content to the article. I've never heard of OTRS, so I can't help any here.--Flamgirlant 03:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * (to w.marsh) Yes, but they're likely claiming that Lava Lamp™ is a trademark which is their property, while you're referring to it as a generic term. That's bound to piss them off, esp. given their court proceedings against Mathmos, no? It's not as simple as it looks, hence OTRS - A l is o n  ☺ 04:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't find the OTRS ticket referred to, but I suspect the complaint is either that we are genericizing their trademark, or that we aren't using the approved name: "LAVA(r) brand motion lamp". Based on that, any article at that title will be a problem. --Carnildo 05:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry but what the bloody else do we call it (not have a go at wikipedia or wikipedians, just the idiot company). That is most definitely a genericized trademark. Viridae Talk  07:16, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Apparently, they're "motion lamps" or even "Astro Lamps" (the original name). I guess the people who own the name Lava Lamp™®(r)(C) get very het up about these things - A l is o n  ☺ 07:21, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Never ever heard them called anything but Lava lamps. Viridae Talk 07:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There seem to be endless companies other than these 2 selling things called lava lamps. But this is an article content issue, not a legal issue. We aren't selling something we claim is a trademarked Lava Lamp, we're just describing what people mean when they say something is a lava lamp. Part of that will include who owns the trademark and so on, it would help if they could provide coherent third party documentation. We need to make the article more accurate, not blank it. --W.marsh 11:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't been able to find the OTRS ticket number either. Maybe it was copy/pasted wrong?  In any case there is no trademark issue as far as I can tell from my understanding of trademark issues. ---J.S  (T/C/WRE) 15:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's in the legal queue, which is why you can't see it. We've received a legal complaint from an attorney regarding this. The issue goes directly down to the words Lava lamp. Thus, I blanked the article completely: any use of the word lava lamp is disputed in the claim. REGARDLESS OF THE MERITS, please let us proceed through this to resolution before reinserting the information. The world will not end because this article is blanked for a little bit. &rArr;    SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  16:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There has got to be a better way to handle it than this... hatcheting articles on demand and maybe fixing them at some point is an insult to people who work hard on articles. --W.marsh 16:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe you have some misconception of what's going on here. It's not hatcheted on demand: it's a preventative response to a potential lawsuit. And we're not "maybe fixing them" at some point: it's under active investigation, and it WILL be fixed as soon as that ends. There's no insult there. Until that point, you need to trust that OTRS is doing their job.  &rArr;    SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  17:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll get some trust when I actually see OTRS fix an article they've hatcheted. I haven't seen that in a while... at one point they were quite good at fixing actual problems quietly. Now all I see are farces like Lava lamp. --W.marsh 17:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Assume good faith? &rArr;    SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  19:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Fix the article? --W.marsh 19:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It will happen, as soon as we finish resolving things with the party. &rArr;    SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  01:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Er, in order to keep a trademark good, doesn't one have to show a history of enforcing its use? I can recall past examples of various companies (Caterpillar is one that comes to mind) publishing notices in periodicals like Writer's Digest about their trademarks, but I have never seen any notices about "Lava lamp". And I can assure you that I would remember that -- because that would be like attempting to trademark "Acapulco Gold". -- llywrch 23:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Here you go. This should explain to you why the entire article is blanked, as opposed to a 2 sentence stub or so.  &rArr;    SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  01:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * (Hope that's enough indents; sorry if it's too many) Yes, that's all very nice, but one sparrow does not mean spring is here. They have to enforce their copyright in a consistent & regular fashion; send out enough legal notices, & someone somewhere will cave. Waking up one morning after decades have passed, then siccing legal sharks after everyone using the word without the proper symbols after it, doesn't qualify as "consistent and regular". I hope whoever is handling this case is insisting on sufficient burden of proof that the people behind this complaint have made a reasonable attempt to enforce their trademark -- otherwise, we're not talking about caution, we're talking about caving in. -- llywrch 04:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I fear that Haggerty are a bit late. The name lava lamp (uncapitalised) has been common currency in the UK for about thirty years... Guy (Help!) 09:24, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I think they may be overreaching if I'm reading their legal page correctly {I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice but an attempt to comprehend the situation with the sources available; please don't sue me, volcanic light-fixture people; etc.). From their legal terms page: "A 'lava lamp' does not exist."  Their trademarks are LAVA®, LAVA LITE®, and LAVA WORLD INTERNATIONAL®; the term "l**a l**p," which the page asserts does not exist, does not appear to be trademarked by them, which would logically leave it free for generic use.  Also demanded by Haggerty: "Somewhere on the page containing a LAVA® brand motion product, the following must be written: legalese, blah blah blah blah."  There was probably an issue with having a picture of a "motion lamp" on the page without their legal language there, but it is my understanding of fair use that, if one takes a picture of a product, then that image belongs to the person who created it, and that would thus not constitute a trademark infringement.  I am wondering why they have not trademarked "l**a l**p" and instead insist upon LAVA LITE®.  Methinks someone might want to look into whether or not they applied for that trademark but couldn't get it because it was determined to be a generic term or was trademarked by someone else.   --Dynaflow   babble  10:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * According to TESS, a trademark for "Lava Lamp" is owned by a fireworks manufacturer in Missouri. In my search, I didn't find any explicit Haggerty trademark of the phrase "lava lamp," though they do seem to own "Lava Brand" in relation to lamps and such.  Someone else should double-check that because I might not have looked in all the right places and might not be interpreting their entries correctly.  In any case, this is from the Compact OED: lava lamp • noun a transparent electric lamp containing a viscous liquid in which a suspended waxy substance rises and falls in constantly changing shapes. I would love to see what happens if/when they issue a C&D order to the OED people.  There will be fireworks, for sure.  --Dynaflow   babble  11:46, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I hope our team of attorneys uses all of this excellent evidence to ensure our article can remain accurate and high-quality. --W.marsh 14:27, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I expect the recent trend of expedient solutions and capitulation in the face of brute force to continue, but hey, the Foundation might just redeem itself this time. LOL at one of the LAVA LITE®'s own vendors' interpretation of Haggerty's trademark practices (at bottom of page): "Lava Lite® lamp and its configuation are both registered trademarks of Haggerty Enterprises, Inc., and they will SQUISH anyone who infringes upon their stuff."  --Dynaflow   babble  18:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well done to User:Spikey for pointing out this potential trademark problem nearly 3 1/2 years ago! violet/riga (t) 14:41, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The conflation of copyright and trademark at User talk:Swatjester is highly indicative that OTRS is once again failing here. A copyright dispute would involve someone copying something that is copyrighted.  From the above, it is clear that this is about a trademark, not copyright.  In addition to the Oxford English Dictionary mentioned above I add pages 14–16 of ISBN 0124001513, a reference work like Wikipedia, entitled "What Makes a Lava Lamp Work?", which talks about lava lamps throughout and which in turn references an article in the March 1991 issue of Popular Electronics entitled "How to Make a Lava Lamp.".  Uncle G 20:12, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I get the distinct impression they don't have a legal leg to stand on, and are simply being litigious for the disruptive point it makes. --Haemo 08:40, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, I don't like this any more than the rest of you, but let's keep this constructive. Someone at OTRS is doing the best job she/he can (I don't know if it is SwatJester, but for the moment Let's assume he's just here answering questions) -- although this person is not responding to this legal harassment with the appropriate attitude. I think that at this point the claim of infringement on their trademark is looking pretty dodgy to any uninvolved observer; we ought to give the person holding this hot potato at OTRS a chance to share with us any evidence that Haggerty has provided showing they have enforced their rights to "Lava lamp" -- or to take the evidence we've supplied & ask them to respond in a constructive manner. If this doesn't happen, then it would be the time to stop assuming good faith here. -- llywrch 00:57, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * OTRS does need to be held accountable though. The article has been in a useless limbo state for a week now with no resolution in sight... is this really acceptable? If this is the best volunteer OTRS can do nowadays, the foundation needs to seriously consider getting paid legal counsel back, as I doubt a qualified attorney would have had to handle it this way. --W.marsh 03:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't dispute your point: I'm growing increasingly worried that OTRS is being used as a magic formula to remove controversial material without a proper discussion -- & only serving to offend long-term Wikipedians who aren't privy to these discussions. Nevertheless, try to remain civil while pressing your points: one catches more flies with honey than vinegar. -- llywrch 20:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Meh. That's not a helpful thing to say, to be honest. Criticism isn't automatically uncivil... I am going to criticize people who mess up articles. The solution isn't for me to keep my mouth shut, it's for them to do a better job. --W.marsh 20:58, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The Geological Society of America has published discussion by geologists of a "lava lamp model" of the Earth's mantle, by the way . I hope that the OTRS people will have the sense to reject outright any calls to blank mantle plume, diapir, and Mantle (geology).  Uncle G 20:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

User:Thedeadmanandphenom
Having some problems with, who has been leaving profane, incivil and occasionally threatening (though not realistically threatening, more in the 'I hope you die!' type commentia range) on the page of Darrenhusted. I think he needs a time out. Could someone put him in the corner for a a couple hours? --Thespian 18:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * In the past he has disrupted pages and blanked sourced material, and after having numerous warnings  for editors other than myself he has now decided to attack me personally for PROD-ding an article he created , . I don't know if he is here to constructively edit, and I have tried to assume good faith, even tidying up the article he created  but I think that some kind of block (may be for 12 hours) may be needed to try to reign him in. Any help on this matter would be appreciated. Darrenhusted 18:41, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

If anyone ever gets around to looking at this issue, I'd also request a checkuser on, who has been mucking with my talk page and Darren's, entirely with snarky comments about Darren's sexuality and facetious sounding comments about Thedeadmanandphenom. --Thespian 16:10, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * ETA - slurs from Lostinspace123 invectives have now gotten racial in addition to being sexual. He's on a bit of a tear. --Thespian 16:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've blocked him indef for a "death threat" as well as general harassment SirFozzie 16:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thedeadmanandphenom is still trolling my page, even while claiming to not know Lostinspace123 who re-registered as Lostinspace1234 to get around the block . Darrenhusted 16:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Chris Benoit (preventative)
This Wrestler and his family have died under unknown circumstances. From previous experience with the deaths of famous (or semi-famous) people, the dingbats and fuckwits soon follow to put their own stamp on events. Do a couple of admins want to put this on their watchlist - because a little prevention goes a long way... --Fredrick day 22:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's been preëmptively semi-protected, which should help keep things under control. MastCell Talk 22:46, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I should point out I'm not actually into wrestling but saw it mentioned elsewhere - the other reason it might be trouble is that (from what I can gather) the WWE is currently doing a storyline where the head of the organisation is pretending to be dead (yes yes I know) so it's likely we would get lots of "OMG THIS IS FAKE!" stuff. --Fredrick day 22:48, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It isnt a storyline he is unfortuntly dead and I can't get over the bad timeing with the Mcmahon is dead storyline ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 23:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Probably worth the protection anyways, but so far nothing substantiates this story as real news. ThuranX 23:48, 25 June 2007 (UTC) laright, it's starting to get coverage now. ThuranX 00:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Even TNA has reported it and ther a rival company they would only do it if it was real like with Eddie guerrero ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 23:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * An Atlanta TV station has picked it up . Sadly, it's real. SirFozzie 23:53, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * As well as the major Atlanta paper


 * darn I wish it was fake I can't stop crying. But even other tv shows have picked it up ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 23:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Wrestling's a touchy subject with news, especially with the McMahon "death" happening very recently. I'd be happy with a major news source picking it up, but I guess we have to accept it only with the minor sources. Will (talk) 00:01, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Mr Mcmahon just admited that his death was fake so theres no way anyone would confuse chris death with a storyline ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 00:03, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Not any more, at least. The news in Benoit's home town/province are picking up the story now.  It's legit:  Resolute 00:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't belive his son was that young I think im going to be sick ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 00:16, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Interesting: link to the AJC says murder-suicide, edmonton sun says homicide. &rArr;   SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  02:23, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't put the AJC link into it because there's no source listed (named or unnamed). there's no confirmation elsewhere as well about the possible murder-suicide (I've heard it was mentioned on MSNBC and Fox News, but that's hearsay) SirFozzie 02:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Anyone want to do a speedy on a quite distasteful image that a user is suggesting we add to the article --Fredrick day 09:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Allegations of state terrorism in Sri Lanka
User:Blnguyen once again started Edit War without discussing before revert the issues of she/he consider, "random videos posted on google and tripod websites and communist lobby groups are not RS."Lustead 02:40, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * ...Sounds like a very good call. In any case, I'm not sure what you expect us to do. Grand  master  ka  02:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Should we move it to State terrorism by Sri Lanka to match State terrorism by the United States? Or would that title not be appropriate? Tom Harrison Talk 02:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * You should move it back to State terrorism by Sri Lanka to match State terrorism by the United States, that is the ideal version to explain the "State Terrorism by Fools".Lustead 03:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Not only it's protected at the version before the revert of User:Blnguyen and she/he should be reminded Wikipedia is not someone's "grandma's property".Lustead 02:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Very good call. How about you, you know, actually read what he wrote when he reverted, instead of just blindly reverting back. Riana (talk)  02:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well see WP:RS about proper published materials not random stuff posted on the internet. We've gone through this before. Nobody considers these sources acceptable except a group of single purpose Tamil lobbyists. eg, see where Samir and Ghirlandajo tell you the same thing. Blnguyen  (bananabucket) 02:59, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive255 - We have Y, DakotaKahn, Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington, Nishkid64, Dineshkannambadi, Naveenbm telling you that these are not RS (and you asked for neutral opinions, and you got them). Only FayssalF thought these ethnic lobby groups and random websites are acceptable. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Once you go through this, you will realise even the neutral editors User:Blueboar and User:SebastianHelm are the same view of Tamilnet meets WP:RS.Lustead 03:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * So those who don't think it is RS don't count? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That's what we have a lenghthy discussion at Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources and User:Blueboar has given the final verdict - Tamilnet meets WP:RS. If you want to by-pass his verdict find some other way in wikipedia to determine whether Tamilnet meets WP:RS or not, than just shouting about others - "So those who don't think it is RS don't count?".Lustead 03:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You should discuss case by case basis and should revert and not the "whole scale revert" - A clear vandalism. Lustead 03:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You are the one who never discussed at all and simply cited vandalism. You are a single topic editor who knows about ANI on your sixth edit and hibernates until an incident comes up and you are back in five minutes.....Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you are interested in my old history how did I manage on my sixth edit at ANI, then you can dig my sandboxes and reveal them to public how you have done it to User:Taprobanus, the case is already going on at this ANI/Incidents just you scroll above.Lustead 03:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Tamilnet seems to be ok. But tamilnation, eelamnet, etc are LTTE mouthpieces. Baka man  03:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I reviewed the edit history of Lusthead. He appears to be an essentially one-purpose account primarily interested in flaring up "Sri Lankan and Indian conflicts". My policy towards combative one-purpose accounts is strict. I would suggest a community block if he sticks to his disruptive policy of forum shopping and revert warring in the future. Allegations of state terrorism in Sri Lanka ought to be protected until the dispute is resolved. --Ghirla-трёп- 05:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it is good to be a single purpose account when it comes to sensitive world conflicts where in the real world diplomats, statesmen and politicians failed for decades to resolve them. I think majority of the Administrators are well informed and not fools to do forum shoping here.Lustead 07:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Protected for a month, straight off the last protection and back to the edit warring. Naturally, the wrong version was protected.  Daniel  07:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Would a RfC or an ArbCom case sort out Sri Lanka related issues? It seems that protecting/unprotecting/ANI reporting have never resulted in any consensus. -- FayssalF  - <sup style="background:gold;">Wiki me up®  13:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia does not have content arbitration procedures. People need to talk to each other in order to resolve their content disputes. As long as they are unwilling to talk, the disputed page should remain protected. --Ghirla-трёп- 13:19, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I know that but arbitration procedures can correct the behaviour of users who are unwilling to resolve their disputes. I have no problem in keeping it protected forever but bringing the issue here all the time is disturbing. If no venue can sort this out then obviously it can't be dealt w/ here as well. -- FayssalF  - <sup style="background:gold;">Wiki me up®  13:24, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with User:FayssalF that arbitration procedures can correct the behaviour of users who are unwilling to resolve their disputes. I request User:Daniel and others, the ArbCom case should be initiated immediately.Lustead 14:40, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Second opinion requested on sockpuppetry allegation
I need a second opinion on a sockpuppetry allegation (in fact, the second allegation made by one editor against another). Briefly, the IP evidence suggests that is editing from the same ISP as various suspected socks of Joehazelton and also misspells grammar as "grammer" in the same way. I don't see any other similarities, but a summary of the accuser's evidence is below my long comment here and in the section below (my comment is about the previous sockpuppetry allegation). I would like a second opinion about the new sockpuppetry allegation, the accuser's behavior, and anything else that people are interested to give.--Chaser - T 06:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Just adding that this latest sockpuppetry allegation came from Propol here, and has already removed it from his talk page, screaming about "harassment" in exactly the same way as suspected socks of Joehazelton always does. Eleemosynary 06:20, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * UPDATE: Luna Santin has banned the sock, indefinitely. --Eleemosynary 06:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I know the sock is already blocked -- thank you -- but I still wanted to post this. Please see this edit of another blocked User:Joehazelton sock puppet. Notice, he makes reference to a scarlet letter, as he does with the User:Willie Peter sock too. Also, he attempts to expose the identity of a Wikipedia admin and makes threats. Please watch this user closely, he has made death threats in the past and located people offline. Propol 06:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Political intollerance of Slovak admin Mr. Kelovy
When I tried to edit biased content of some Slovak pages concerning history of leftist movement and communism, Mr. Kelovy (Slovak admin) blocked me. In our e-mail discussion he turned out to have anti-leftist and anti-communist political view which he enforces on Slovak Wikipedia contents. I assume that bringing own political views into admin work violates philosophy of Wikipedia and therefor I request that Mr. Kelovy would be dismissed from the position of Slovak admin to allow for more open and non-biased Wikipedia contents.

Would you please answer to my complaint to d6@post.sk

Regards

Mato — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.213.200.11 (talk • contribs)
 * I assume you are talking about . He is not an admin here. Any issues on the Slovak Wikipedia should we dealt with on the Slovak Wikipedia. We have no jurisdiction there. A  ecis Brievenbus 11:01, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Creating redirects in Wikipedia space to an essay in one's user pages?
I think that User:NewAsmodeus/Harden The Fuck Up, though arguing that authoring personal attacks is sometimes okay (and thus arguing that WP:NPA is wrong), falls within whatever free speech protections that Wikipedia editors have with regard to policy. However, I'm wondering - is it acceptable for the author of the essay to have created a number of redirects in Wikipedia space that point to the essay? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 13:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Some of those don't even make sense. WP: should be used before an abbreviation, not the full name. Like WP:HTFU, WP:HARDEN would make sense, as it is no. And I'd say definitely have the essay itself in the main wikipedia space with an "Essay, not Policy" tag, not in userspace -- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION! 13:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see anything expressly against wikipedia space --> user space redirects in the guidelines on redirects or shortcuts. You could try WP:RFD... What I find immensely interesting though is that in 27 edits,  created a well formatted, linked, essay with correctly licensed images.  Makes you wonder what their other account name is and if they got a recent personal attack block.--Isotope23 13:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Looking at his contribs, you're right, he's definitely someone's sock puppet. Probably evading a block as well. Definitely violating username policy against if they aren't the same person anyway, so block? -- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION! 13:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Asmodeus hasn't edit since late March, Phoeba.  Evilclown93 (talk)  13:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That doesn't mean the user isn't him. -- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION! 14:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Strictly speaking, as WP:U violations go, this one probably wouldn't be acted on if it showed up at WP:UAA. Asmodeus is a pre-existing term, and there's no evidence that User:NewAsmodeus is actually impersonating User:Asmodeus, and the similarity of name can be written off as a coincidence (which is the risk you run when you base your username on an existing word or phrase). EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 14:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * See User talk:Sceptre7, also an impersonating username of User:Sceptre posting the same essay, already blocked. Until(1 == 2) 14:55, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks like the essay and the redirects were deleted, recreated, deleted, etc. I've went ahead and blocked  because of obvious socking with .  If someone wants to request a checkuser I'd bet there might be a couple other accounts out there with related IPs.--Isotope23 15:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

User:SmokeyTheCat
This user is continuing to engage in POV pushing that is borderline trolling and vandalism, despite warnings. It would be nice if someone with authority could give him another warning that POV pushing is not acceptable. The Evil Spartan 15:16, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Juliuscaesar100-44
This user is continuing to upload copyrighted content and claim it as his own. He has once again uploaded Image:Singer Robbie Williams.jpg, which is an exact copy of another copyrighted image that was deleted from http://www.cool-midi.com/robbie-williams-free-midi-28.htm, for which he was warned. Help! The Evil Spartan 15:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Editor keeps adding unreliable website as proof to push POV
User:Bakasuprman who now faces ArbCom keeps cat tagging and linkspamming Indian articles citing this website as evidence. I would like to know if this site is violating WP:RS or not. The site claims to have been set up by a retired Indian police commissioner KPS Gill and voices his opinions as if they are matters of fact. Apparently, the site seems to have no other supporting evidence for any of their articles. Is this not a conflict of interest? Incidentally, Gill himself was convicted and imprisoned recently. Interestingly, the website lists Communist parties too as terrorists.

 

Anwar 17:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * WP:COI. I am not Kanwar Pal Singh Gill. Therefore there is no conflict of interest. The site is quite reliable and has been used by many other users without question. The only problem for anwwar is that an incomprehensibly large number of Muslim groups are listed as terrorists there, and organizations like the Bajrang Dal (which doesnt engage in terrorism and are Hindu nationalist) arent. Many educational institutions regard it as a reliable source.


 * Australian National University
 * University of Illinois Urbana.....
 * The UC system


 * etc etc. It doesnt voice Gill's opinions, it voices careful and thought-out research by many individuals. Some of the other people: Birbal Sahni has worked with the UN, Bibhu Rutray, Kanchan Laxman and others have all published works in many South Asian journals, etc. It is a reliable source. I would suggest Anwar learn what spamming is and to quit trolling on WP:ANI. Also I would suggest he quit stalking me, since its painfully obvious that's how he found out I was editing the adivasi Cobra Force article. Baka man  17:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

NPAs, reverts, sock/meatpuppetry, pseudoscience continued
Continuing this archived thread, I am really disappointed to see that things are again escalating:

(aka "alexander veliki" in maknews) is now:


 * persistently reverting/adding un-encyclopedic information on the previously stated articles, sometimes obviously unlogged. ,
 * also here where he is removing bot html comments for unknown copyright images (among others) and calling people "vandals" for reverting his edits ,
 * spamming across 3 talks some totally unworthy sources as "western references".  (commentary on the source here)
 * has the firm belief that countries dictate what should be written in history books (or Wikipedia), which leads in absurd claims... See Template talk:History of the Republic of Macedonia for an example (and a laugh -sorry).
 * calling people names off-wiki repeatedly
 * and soliciting organized reverts (link above)
 * and asking for lawyers in their site (having seen our previous ANI thread linked in the beginning of this comment -again the same link as right above)

I just described how my evening was like today. There is really very little I can do to stop what is an apparent case of rampant nationalistic edits ad absurdium. I'm going to bed. NikoSilver 02:26, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I have not persistently reverted anything within a reasonable time period. I have reverted articles twice maximum.
 * I only reverted the Alexander the Great article twice because it sounded more neutral and once because someone deleted my source.
 * I did not create the History of Macedonia template
 * I have not spammed anything. That link was related to the talk pages.
 * I have nothing to do with the forum you posted


 * Alexander the great1 03:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The user "alexander veliki", which btw means "alexander the great" (lit. "ancient alexander") in your language, says otherwise:

He posted on:
 * Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:54 am: "They have now banned me from editing articles on Wikipedia because they don’t like the fact that I correct articles." -and-
 * Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:55 pm: "They just banned me from Wikipedia for "correcting an article more then 3 times in 24 hours"."

Your block log reads:


 * 22:45, June 19, 2007 Future Perfect at Sunrise (Talk | contribs) blocked "Alexander the great1 (contribs)" (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 24 hours (revert-warring continued)
 * 16:38, June 18, 2007 ChrisO (Talk | contribs) blocked "Alexander the great1 (contribs)" (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 24 hours (Three-revert rule violation)

And the log of one of your proven sockpuppets user  reads:
 * 16:26, June 23, 2007 Akhilleus (Talk | contribs) blocked "Balkan balkan (contribs)" (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of indefinite (sockpuppet of User:Alexander the great1 used for edit warring)

Which means those "announcements" you made in that site were 17 minutes (in the first case) and 9 hours (in the second) after your received blocks. I fail to see why he would lie about you (or even how he could have a clue about block logs).

The particular user "alexander veliki" made an off-wiki legal threat in that forum (among many other on-wiki and off-wiki violations). That threat was after he was already informed of that policy and looking at the previous AN/Incident (which he linked in that forum as well). His denying of the identity proves that he now understands the gravity of the situation. The full text of the legal threat follows:


 * Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:42 pm:


 * "''lol, I think we crossed a nerve with the Greek/Bulgarian propagandists on Wikipedia!


 * See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#.22Low_lives.22...


 * It seems that some of them have been spying on us hear at the forum and are outraged that they cannot control what we say as they can on Wikipedia. They have made a list of Macedonians that they want removed from the site for correcting articles. They also seem to believe that Wikipedia has a “policy for off-wiki collaboration and insults” they believe that Wikipedia can control what we say anywhere on the internet! They never cease to amaze me.


 * They are also upset that “The discussion there continues unobstructed” on Maknews (as if Wikipedia was supposed to due something about their complaints). They are also upset that we want to promote Macedonian academics to moderator status, isn’t that racist? They also seem to be afraid that we might organize “a class-action lawsuit “.


 * Are there any lawyers on the forum?" [emphasis added]

I see no room for doubt that is the maknews user "alexander veliki" who made those off-wiki legal threats (and other violations, including off-wiki canvassing for meatpuppetry by even posting lists of articles concerned for organized reverts, extensive on-wiki sockpuppetry, off-wiki personal attacks, previous 3RRs, off-wiki POV-fork suggestions, and repeated POV inserts in various articles). NikoSilver 10:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This is indeed disturbing. Wikipedians are not expected to recruit supporters on their nation's off-wiki forums in order to promote their all-too-predictable agenda in this project. Such actions fuel incessant revert-warring that brings Wikipedia into disrepute. --Ghirla-трёп- 10:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I am sorry to inform you NikoSilver but Wikipedia’s job is not to police what individuals write on forums on the Internet. Besides the fact the I already stated that I am not connected to the forum you posted, you continue making allegations. I also question your motive for posting your complaint, as I have not broken any Wikipedia rules. What’s more is that in your previous complaint as you alluded to, you singled out all of the Macedonian users that have contributed to a Macedonian article and in affect asked for them to be banned for some top secret “collaboration” that they might be planning. That was a crazy accusation as that has never happened and there is no record of them ever planning to do so. So all of this leads one to believe that you are attempting to silence any user that is Macedonian and contributes to a Macedonian Article. This is quite apparent as one can easily sense the prejudice in the tone of your writing.I really hope that this stops as it goes against the principles of Wikipedia. Alexander the great1 17:19, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the criticism, I'll seek to ameliorate myself using your advice. In the meantime, do you care to respond why the guy in that site says "I was blocked" twice right after you were indeed blocked? Why he has essentially the same username? Why he edits in the same articles? ... NikoSilver 18:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I told you that I have nothing to do with that forum
 * Alexander the Great is a popular Macedonain name
 * Many people edit articles, you and Mr.Neutron edit the same articles
 * Besides all of this, It is not Wikipedia’s place to monitor forums, as they are not related to Wikimedia Alexander the great1 19:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not of course police other sites, it polices itself from organized pov-push though. Read the linked policies. You forgot to respond on "Why the guy in that site says "I was blocked" twice right after you were indeed blocked?" NikoSilver 19:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I have yet to see any “organized” POV-pushing, people edit articles when they feel the need to fix them. You are again making accusations with no evidence to back them up, which leads one to believe that your accusations are an act of prejudice.
 * I do not know what the person said on the site, because it does not concern me. Anyone can view user pages and talk pages and see when someone has been blocked.Alexander the great1 19:38, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * So some other compatriot of yours (who btw shares entirely the same views and discusses there about the same articles) decided to frame you? What would that serve? And how would he find out about your new existence here; or worse about your blocks and those of your proven socks in 17 minutes?? NikoSilver 19:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should read the whole thread and you will find that everyone there shares the same views.
 * No one decided to frame me because no one said they were me.
 * Again it is not my concern as to how people know of my “new existence here”, how do you know of my “new existence here”?Alexander the great1 19:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Serious omission: Nobody else editing Macedonia-related articles was blocked; apart User:Alexander the great1 and his socks. NikoSilver 19:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don’t understand why you are so concerned about what someone wrote on some forum as they said that they are myself, and I have never claimed to be anyone on that site. Alexander the great1 20:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's patently obvious that you're "alexander veliki". I'm really not impressed by your protestations, and your editing record speaks for itself (unfortunately). To avoid any misunderstandings, I'll make this clear to you: if you continue edit warring, POV-pushing, repeatedly reverting articles and generally disrupting Wikipedia, you will be blocked again for a substantial period. It's not acceptable conduct for any contributor, and right now you're not contributing anything of value. I strongly suggest that you read Five pillars and take note of what it says. -- ChrisO 20:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * To Alexander the great1: Perhaps then we should obtain the IP address of "Alexander Veliki" from Maknews and compare it with your IP here on wikipedia (which we already know by the way). Mr. Neutron 20:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we should mind our own business and not go around violating the privacy of others as it is valued and punishable under law. Maknews is a distinguished and principled forum, I really doubt that they would give away information related to the privacy of others. Besides all of this I think you people do not understand that Wikipedia has no business trying to find out what its members may be saying on other forums. Alexander the great1 20:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * we should mind our own business and not go around violating the privacy of others as it is valued and punishable under law: This is personal attack and a legal threat. Mr. Neutron 20:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

After this last comment, does anybody seriously think there's anything salvageable from this business to keep it going on eternally? NikoSilver 20:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I made no personal attack, just a suggestion, and I did not make a legal threat I simply informed you of what problems we might run into because I would not like to support illegal activities as you suggested.Alexander the great1 20:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * As it is apparent there is concentrated prejudiced attempt going on that even promotes illegal methods to reach its goal. Alexander the great1 20:33, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

You made numerous personal attacks in that site and here, and you made 2 legal threats, one in that site (after having been shown the relevant policy which is proved by you quoting the link to the previous ANI thread that included it) and again one right 2 comments above. You also keep saying "illegal" (what? an IP?), as in you'll do something about it... NikoSilver 20:37, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Please show me were I have made any legal threats or personal attacks. I already told you so many times that I have nothing to do with the forum posted. What I said was illegal was to invade the privacy of others and that I would not support it, as Mr.Neutron was promoting such a move. Although I do not know where he was planning on getting that information considering it is not available to the public, it is reasonable to assume he had more sketchy ideas in mind.

Alexander the great1 20:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I was going to go with it the old fasioned way, explaining the situation through email correspondence with the system administrator, providing appropriate links to content, and stressing the importance of the situation while asking for assistance. By the way, disclosing an IP is not

"illegal" as you think. It is justified in certain circumstances as this one, when there are clear policy violations. Mr. Neutron 20:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It is justified in Government matters, legal matters, not open source websites. Alexander the great1 20:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That is not what you posted before Mr.Neutron. And to say that I have made legal threats is absolute ridiculous, lets not get into the whole issue of libel again. I said I WOULD NOT SUPPORT ILLIGAL ACTIVITIES. I never said I would sue anyone. Alexander the great1 20:51, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

You also said: "They also seem to be afraid that we might organize “a class-action lawsuit “. Are there any lawyers on the forum?". Now you're saying "we should mind our own business and not go around violating the privacy of others as it is valued and punishable under law", and you're shouting "ILLIGAL" [sic] not to mention "libel" again. NikoSilver 20:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Its funny that you mention libel because Mr.Neutron is much more familiar with using that term then I am (see my user page). Saying “Legal” does not constitute a legal threat. I said that something is punishable under law as many things are, I did not say I was going to sue. That is a miss-representation of what I said. Again I have nothing to do with that forum. I really suggest  that you do not start arguing over legal matters as I am most likely more familiar with this field then anyone here. Alexander the great1 21:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I suppose the last pompous sentence is a "suggestion", not a threat either, huh? NikoSilver 21:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * A legal threat is saying “I will sue you”. I never said that. If I was going to sue someone do you think I would bother announcing it for everyone on Wikipedia to see. And yes with the experience that I have I really doubt anyone here is more knowledgeable in the field of law then I am. This is reflected in the posts some people have made. Alexander the great1 21:26, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Impersonation
Recently a rash of pseudo-Hindu users have propped up on the map. These users have been masquerading as Hkelkar socks and seem to be assisted (or the same as) some anti-Hindu socks. Here are a list of users that are suspiciously new and way too knowledgeable on wikipolicy and which users to contact for their POV-feuds. These users should be blocked anyways, so I will not take spurious allegations of facilitating meat/socking by sympathizers of User:Rama's Arrow very lightly. Baka man  03:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * (obvious impersonator of Hkelkar)
 * (impersonator of hkelkar, currently blocked for allegedly being hkelkar)
 * (Probably related to )
 * (A probable sock of )
 * (A probable sock of
 * (BhaiSaab/His excellency masquerading as Hkelkar)
 * (sock of )
 * (probable sock)

This is a large scale impersonation, sock, and vandalism operation. These users are all masquerading as other people or attempting to shed their identities. Something dirtier than Hkelkar is afoot, and Hkelkar stopped socking (at the behest of ) several weeks ago. Baka man  03:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's very simple. Genuine Kelkarsocks should be blocked under the terms of his ArbComm-issued ban. Ersatz Kelkarsocks should be blocked because they're only here to cause trouble. JFD 03:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that these accounts should be blocked. But see, right now is paying for a crime he did not commit.  (arbcom on him right now I think) and  are getting away with impersonation. And Hkelkar's ban is reset under false pretenses, meaning he wont be back until next June instead of next May. Baka  man  03:46, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, the block/ban is indefinite now. I have no opinion on this matter, but merely commenting on an inaccuracy in the above post. — Kurykh  03:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That shouldn't be so... ArbCom doesn't allow for indefinite bans. Riana (talk)  06:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC) Never mind me, I seem to have missed some key discussion somewhere... Riana  (talk)  06:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It all depends... on how Kelkar behaves after the one year ban gets over. — Nearly Headless Nick   {C}  10:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Kurykh, I was not aware it was indef. The issue now is not about kelkar, but the people impersonating him. Baka man  15:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Baka is correct. Especially when comparing Kathanar edits.--D-Boy 01:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Overzealous "linkspam" deletion
has been deleting all "External Links" entries on all pages that link to pages on eserver.org, claiming that these are "linkspam". Alas, these links are typically to original source material and scholarly articles (typically concerning 19th Century American abolitionists) that are exactly what Wikipedia encourages people to use the "External Links" section of a page for. In response to complaints about these overzealous deletions, Requestion does not engage in honest give-and-take, but instead claims that his actions are justified based on discussions "at WPSPAM and COIN" (which may be true for all I know, but they certainly aren't justified by the current Wikipedia external links policy), obliquely threatens to have people who revert his deletions blocked, and leaves unjustified spam warning boilerplate on their talk pages. Requestion has also said, in frustration at these reversions, "I'm going to build a bot that will do the maintenance deletion automatically".

See, for instance, the Slavery in Massachusetts page.

This is harming dozens of Wikipedia pages by removing some very useful content of the sort that is encouraged by current Wikipedia guidelines. It seems difficult to correct using the normal peer editing and discussion of Wikipedia. And it threatens to become a greater problem if Requestion's already overzealous deletions become robotic. For these reasons, I raise this as an incident here. -Moorlock 03:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm a participant in this discussion, so not a neutral bystander, but I agree with Moorlock's summary. Requestion has left unjustified spam warnings and repeatedly failed to respond to substantive comments about the suitability of these links, and has been repeatedly reverting without discussion at numerous pages (e.g. tax resistance). -- Rbellin|Talk 03:23, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Per COI and SPAM policies once coordinating linkfarming has been detected, the proper procedure is to remove all the links and then see if the editors on the individual articles who are actually there to edit the article and not there just to promote a site restore them one by one for actual, honest to goodness encyclopedic reasons. A bot in this case would be extremely helpful. DreamGuy 04:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've left a message to this effect at User talk:Requestion. Chick Bowen 06:19, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * User:Rbellin and User:Moorlock have been blanket reverting my eserver.org spam deletions. This is not a careful and considerate restoration of valuable links. The spam removal has been thoroughly discussed and sanctioned at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam/2007 Archive Jun and Conflict of interest/Noticeboard. Next time I'm going to build a bot to handle this maintenance cleanup and avoid all this grief. (Requestion 20:23, 26 June 2007 (UTC))


 * That's my understanding of the spam policy as well. The question is what is appropriate behavior once disinterested editors have reviewed the deleted links and concluded that they do belong in the article.  Continued threats of blocking, as though any disagreement with Requestion's opinion were equivalent to spamming, would seem not to be it.  (There has been no discussion or attempt to communicate about the deletions, other than these threats, despite the numerous requests for clarification on User talk:Requestion.) -- Rbellin|Talk 18:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * And rather than participate in any further discussion of the deletions, Requestion has now left spam warning templates on both my and Moorlock's Talk pages. This seems completely out of line to me. -- Rbellin|Talk 19:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The complaints here neglected to mention the Conflict of interest/Noticeboard and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam/2007 Archive Jun discussions. — Athaenara ✉ 21:13, 26 June 2007 (UTC) & 01:43, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Context

User:YK47 and Formula Rus
A couple of days ago I noticed the creation of four new pages. Formula Rus, 2007 Formula Rus season, Full formula specification, and Winners formula champioship (sic). All four pages were created by User:YK47. All four discuss the same Russian racing series, but the titles are clearly undescriptive and the text within them is, at best, broken English. I attempted to message YK47 to attempt to tell him how to fix things, but there has been no response.

All of the images on the pages, which were all uploaded by User:YK47 claiming that they were his own work, were actually taken from the Formula Rus official website, including technical drawings, CGI images, and cropped versions of publicity photos. I marked the ones that I could find copies of on the Formula Rus website and marked them for Speedy Delete.

However, today he has decided to upload nearly 50 some odd pictures, again from the Formula Rus website, and has literally turned 2007 Formula Rus season into a gallery for these pictures. Unregistered user 85.21.89.226 has also done some editing to all four pages, and appears to either be YK47 or someone assisting YK47.

Due to his apparent lack of understand of English and the sheer number of pictures uploaded under an incorrect usage claim, I bring this here simply because I think someone higher up needs to help curb this as well as delete the large number of images, since it would create a huge backlog in Speedy Delete. The359 18:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It is quite possible he is the administrator of the Formula Rus website and these are indeed his own pictures. -- Petri Krohn 23:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Unlikely, I'd say, even with Good Faith. He uploaded pictures of CGI models of the cars, engines, and other technical drawings claiming they were again his own work.  Those were Speedy Deleted by an administrator when I pointed out that the photos were from the Formula Rus website.  Unless he is a photographer, 3D modeler, engineer, and website administrator, there's no way every type of file he's uploaded could be his own. The359 00:02, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * For example, this technical 3D render is also claimed to be his own work. The359 00:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Small Problem two
Since I never really got a answer to my post I'm posting it again,Small Problem we have a small problem on Timeline of CGI in film and television where a editor and myself have different opinions on what is notable the editor will not go to dicussions explain his choices just say it in his edits. I have a large amount of knowledge and would like to make this page the page the best it can be. I do change the information when I am in fact wrong But there are somethings I think are notable that he erases when he reverts it. I would like to know how to deal with this wikipedian in a civilized matter.Marioman12 18:51, 25 June 2007 (UTC) Marioman12 19:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * This is not an appropriate problem for this page; what you're looking for is Resolving disputes. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 20:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Rockstar915
This person believes that the current wording of Ignore all rules is bad because it can be used to justify any arbitrary, consensus-defying edit, so he/she decided to disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point by applying this interpretation to the policy page itself (in the form of a patently ridiculous edit previously performed by Kim Bruning as a joke). Not yet recognizing Rockstar915's motive, I reverted and posted a polite request on his/her talk page that he/she "please refrain from performing joke edits to policy pages." Rockstar915 once again vandalised the policy page, this time with the edit summary "if your shortsightedness stops you from maintaining or improving wikipedia, close your eyes." He/she then removed my request (with the edit summary "not a joke edit"), but immediately self-reverted and added a similar reply. I once again reverted the vandalism to the policy page and politely requested that Rockstar915 stop. On my talk page, he/she asked whether I'm "afraid of fun." On his/her own talk page, he/she claimed that Tony Sidaway and I were the ones who actually vandalised the policy page. He/she then vandalised the policy page once more.

As the conversation continued, I replied to the post from my talk page by noting that "policy pages exist to assist the project, not for [Rockstar915] to have 'fun,'" and Rockstar915 replied by implying that he/she hadn't used the word "fun" (which obviously isn't true). Having reverted the policy page vandalism yet again, I posted a standard warning message (my first and only use of a template during the exchange). In response to my request for elaboration on the statement regarding Tony and me, Rockstar915 then referenced his/her real objection to the policy (previously explained in great detail at Wikipedia talk:Ignore all rules) by stating that "this pathetic bullshit nonsense of 'the page is too fat' and reverting back to the 'solid' 'consensus' version is a load of crap. If people really think that this page is supposed to be set in stone, completely unchangeable and untouchable, then they should leave Wikipedia immediately." He/she then called me an "asshole" for using a warning template, but quickly switched to "funny guy" (with edit summary "if it looks like a duck, no need to call it a duck. everyone knows it's one. WP:SPADE.").

Skipping ahead (and feel free to consult the revision history for the intervening messages), I eventually encountered an edit conflict. It turned out that this was because he/she archived the entire discussion earlier in the minute (indirectly referring to me as a "troll" in the edit summary). As I had not yet been able to reply to the questions and comments directed toward me by Rockstar915, I saved my attempted edit anyway. Rockstar915 immediately reverted, deeming my edit "trolling." Please see the discussion that followed .

All of the above is merely background information. The remaining problem is that Rockstar915 refuses to allow my last messages from the first thread to be archived. I did so myself, but Rockstar915 reverted (claiming that it was "trollish" of me to edit an archive). In fact, I was using the page for precisely its intended purpose: to archive messages from the discussion. (I wasn't inserting new material that had never been posted on Rockstar915's talk page or altering the existent text in any way.) I performed a dummy edit (the insertion of whitespace) with the summary "Why are you wiki-lawyering about the rules of archiving while deliberately omitting my replies? Are you trying to create the false appearance that I never responded to your questions?". Later in the day, Rockstar915 responded by removing the whitespace. Per the second discussion (linked in bold above), I once again archived the missing posts. Rockstar915 reverted, falsely claiming that "the conversations never took place on [his/her] talk page" and warning that I was "playing with fire." He/she then archived the second thread (again before I'd had an opportunity to reply to his/her latest post). I once again restored the missing messages, noting the fact that they had been posted on Rockstar915's talk page and asking "what, other than misleading readers to believe that I ignored [his/her] questions, [he/she sought] to accomplish." I also posted another message on his/her talk page, noting that it was Rockstar915 who was "changing the contents of the discussion by deliberately omitting my replies from the archive (which is tantamount to altering my words)" and requesting that he/she "please archive the discussion in its entirety or not at all." Rockstar915 removed my message (with the edit summary "actually, you wrote those comments after i had archived it. this is a warning. do not speak to me on my talk page again. well, i guess you can but i'll just revert it." He/she then removed the posts from the archive.

Rockstar915 is arguing that an editor is entitled to prohibit another user from responding to questions/comments explicitly directed toward him/her simply by archiving them before he/she is able to (in this instance, less than a minute before). If the user replies anyway, this is "trolling" and "being obnoxious." The thread remains archived without the newest posts, thereby creating the false appearance that the questions/comments were ignored (and if the user attempts to archive the messages, that's "trolling" too). So if someone posts a message in which he/she rebuts another user's points, he/she can then immediately archive the thread, and the arguments cannot be countered (because doing so is "trolling"). To someone reading the archive, it will appear as though the other party conceded the debate. Heck, the archiving editor could even throw in a statement to that effect (e.g. "If you don't reply, I'll assume that you're acknowledging that I was right and you were wrong."), and there isn't a thing that anyone can do about it.

Obviously, I disagree. Rockstar915 has cited absolutely no logical reason to exclude my posts from the archive, and their inclusion is all that I seek. Editors are under absolutely no obligation to archive talk page threads at all, but they mustn't deliberately distort the ones that they do choose to archive. Just as it's inappropriate to substantially edit another user's messages, it's inappropriate to selectively omit them. —David Levy 20:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've protected Rockstar's archive 2 with the replies included. To Rockstar: stop violating Don't be a dick. To David: this is a 9,000 byte tempest in a teacup. – Steel 21:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I fully realize that this is a relatively minor issue, but I always try to be thorough when explaining situations.  I don't want to be accused of failing to provide the relevant context.  —David Levy 21:13, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow, there's enough info up there to write a book. Oh, and thanks for not notifying me about this, it's not like I matter in this minor dispute. The only thing I'm guilty of is feeding a troll. Oh, and to Steel, thanks for protecting the wrong version, not that I actually care or anything... Rock star  ( T/C ) 21:24, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Not notifying you?! Wow.  I would have, but you demanded that I "not speak to [you] on [your] talk page again."  —David Levy 21:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Comprehensive info and cute responses! Man, publishing companies would eat you up. Again, I'm not the dick in this argument. Sure, I called David a dick, but I call it how I see it, which doesn't make me one. Rock star  ( T/C ) 21:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not trying to be cute. I'm completely serious in stating that I would have left a message on your talk page if you hadn't told me not to.  I attempted to e-mail you, but your account isn't set up to receive e-mail.  How was I supposed to notify you?  —David Levy 22:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * (To no-one in particular) Apparently over 2,000 articles need copyediting. Just saying. – Steel 22:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Arguments are much more important. --Deskana (talk) 22:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course. :) Rock star  ( T/C ) 22:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Opinion on an action of mine, please.
I've redirected User:Ursasapien/Userboxes/antiDIME to Template:User incl due to the polemical nature (which is not allowed) of the userbox (a thinly veiled attack on deletionists, immediatists, mergists, and exclusionists). It's not meta-humour either, the creator is actually using it as an attack. Furthermore, the two users of the template are self-proclaimed inclusionists anyway, thus it is redundant to the much more neutral inclusionist template. Thanks, Will (talk) 21:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That template does seem uncomfortably combatative. "Inclusionist" means the same thing, but less divisive, so I think it's a good replacement. --Masamage ♫ 21:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * As the nominator of the MfD, I don't think you should have personally taken any action. Riana (talk)  21:16, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There are other battles. Personally, I dislike userboxen, but I dislike userbox fighting even more. Was it really that bad? Moreschi Talk 21:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * T1 was meant to delete this crap, not shift it into userspace. Will (talk) 22:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * What does "DIMEist" mean? Is this someone's name? --BigDT 22:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * As I've said, "deletionist immediatist mergist exlusionist". I might be biased, though, as I am a DIM at any rate. Will (talk) 22:16, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok ... I didn't make the connection. I don't see how this one is particularly bothersome, particularly not in userspace. --BigDT 23:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Classic T1. Just delete it. --Tony Sidaway 03:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

- again
She's back in business, unfortunately, posting the same links to the same articles. She'd been previously blocked, then unblocked to be given another chance. Now she's threatened to report me for rolling back her links. I was the admin who lifted her autoblock which, unfortunately, revealed an anon account which was blocked previously for doing the exact same thing as before. Anyone care to take a look, as I've been previously involved here? - A l is o n  ☺ 21:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Final warning has been given. Nacon kantari  22:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Now resorting to personal attacks - . I have reported him/her at WP:AIV.  I am a completely uninvolved party.  Corvus cornix 22:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see the personal attack there...? --OnoremDil 22:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Fascist prick isn't a personal attack? Corvus cornix 22:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That was the title of the section above that they clearly edited to add their own new section...--OnoremDil 22:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right, I apologize, I completely misread that. Corvus cornix 22:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * (ec x 100) I'm not taking that as a personal attack, so it's okay. However, I was not "vandalizing" :) - A l is o n  ☺ 22:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Wrong. You are lying, and I won't stand for it. I have made no attempts to readd the link to the Higurashi section. The link I added, I did the things I was told to do. I posted about it on the talk page for the article, where the main contribute to the three articles I wanted to add the link to agreed that it should be kept. I did what the admins here told me to do, so I should not get in trouble for that. And as for Alison, I threatened to report her for deleting my comments on another user's talkpage, which were in no way violating Wiki policy. It is a severe offense to delete another user's comments, isn't it? Alison is quite clearly lying. Check the history for the Higurashi page, if you do not believe me. I have not attempted to readd the link since my ban was lifted.TomitakePrincess 22:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * User:Evaunit666 did not give approval, and even if he had, his opinion does not trump Wikipedia policy on external links. Corvus cornix 22:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Try to assume a little good faith here on my part. I was not 'lying' above. Now, try to remain civil, please - A l is o n  ☺ 22:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing my "deleting [..] comments on another user's talkpage". Can you point that out, please? If I have, I'd like to apologise - A l is o n  ☺ 22:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Have reblocked the account. Nothing but personal attacks, bad-faithed accusations, and the everpresent spam. We have other things to deal with right now. Riana (talk)  22:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Now requesting unblock. Riana (talk)  22:20, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * This user is obviously not here to contribute; along with being a previously indef-blocked IP account, the sum bulk of their "contributions" have been spamming links to their fansites. They have been wildly and generally abusive to anyone who has had contact with them, and seem to show only the most facile and legalistic regard for Wikipedia policies and guidelines.  --Haemo 22:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * After reviewing the situation, I have denied her unblock request; your block was completely justified, as there's no indication that she's going to cease her incivility and disruption anytime soon.  Ƙ ɽ  ɨ  ɱ  ρ  ᶓ  ȶ  22:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * And now she's editing the unblock request to remove your denial. *sigh* --Haemo 22:37, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Her talk page has been protected by another admin, so I think we're done here. MastCell Talk 22:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

How about we just put that link on the spam blacklist and be done with it? I see TomitakePrincess claiming in this edit, with a lot of capitals, that someone had agreed to it, but she never even commented on that article's talk at all. The only place I can find she actually did ask about it, here, seems to have resulted in a pretty resounding "no". I see nothing but a spammer here, just a very vocal one. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't believe I'm doing this. I've unprotected her talk page to give her one last chance at this, in the interests of fairness. She had been previously editing a closed unblock so that might have been a mistake on her part. I've asked her to be nice and state her case. One last go, ok? Any more abuse and the prot goes back on - A l is o n  ☺ 22:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * They're still asking for an unblock and still calling you a liar. I don't see any improvement.  Corvus cornix 23:20, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Not one wit; it's basically a rewording of their previous unblock request. I don't think they see anything wrong with their actions, or are at all willing to change them.  --Haemo 23:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * And you see why I blocked the account the first time around. I wish yall talked it over with me before letting this clusterfuck happen. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 23:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * And immediately returned as User_talk:WrathofSheik with another sock but got caught in the IP block of, previously implicated and caught in Riana's autoblock of TomitakePrincess. Turns out that this IP has already been involved in a checkuser case for spamming in almost the exact same style. See Requests_for_checkuser/Case/SirShiek - A l is o n  ☺ 00:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The aforementioned IP address has now been blocked for a year by another admin. For the record, I actually never blocked any of these accounts. I did, however, lift the autoblock on that IP address - A l is o n  ☺ 00:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Suspected sock puppets/VladimirGotShot
This is a serious and highly active case of a user who has used several IP addresses to add spamlinks to dozens of prominent articles. I'd like to ask an admin to roll back the edits and block everyone who needs to be blocked. Shalom Hello 03:14, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I think I got all of 'em (the spam edits). At least those from those users currently identified as sock.  Fast intervention would still be useful, especially if it helps uncover more spam by unnoticed socks.  Coren 03:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It should be handled - check Suspected sock puppets/VladimirGotShot. I blocked the puppeteer for 72 hours, the puppet account indefinitely, and the 2 spamming IP's for 24 hours each. That should stem the tide, hopefully. If Vladimir resumes his behavior, an indefinite block would be appropriate. MastCell Talk 03:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Impersonating another user and religious attacks
created the user name VannaBonta, impersonating Vanna Bonta and vandalizing the article Vanna Bonta. 66.74.76.121 (talk) 19:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

has taken text I wrote on one talk page and posted it on another talk page(midway down the mixed edit), effectively amplifying an already heated discussion. He then proceeded to have a heated conversation against this post I never made. He has included my signature and the date. It appears to other users as if I posted the information myself. His behaviour in the last 24 hours on the talk page appears to be purely in the name of escalating an already volitile situation. &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble <sup style="color:red;">puff  01:34, 23 June 2007 (UTC) Is there anything that can be done about this? I really feel he's trying to escalate a bad situation beyond a tenable discussion. &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble <sup style="color:red;">puff  07:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * My response to this totally false and misleading charge is coming... We're dealing with blockable and bannable offenses here by a user who refuses to accomodate BLP and NPR concerns from several users (including myself) regarding Metta Bubble's behavior. If necessary I will take this to the BLP Noticeboard and try to get Metta Bubble sitebanned for gross impropriety. No need to waste time on a ArbCom RfArb, when any admin can simply make a block or ban. There are other users who will back up this effort. -- <b style="color:#004000;">Fyslee</b>/<b style="color:#990099; font-size:x-small;">talk</b> 07:54, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * "My response to this totally false and misleading charge is coming..." The diffs I posted above speak for themselves. What possible legitimate reason could you have for posting my comments and signature to another page? How would you like it if I went around posting your signature to things?


 * Your content issues do not warrant admin intervention. &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble <sup style="color:red;">puff  08:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * You seem to misunderstand. It is your behavioral issues that may require blocking or banning. I never attached your signature to anything. I very precisely and carefully copied your statements (signature and all) and my replies (thus preserving the context). You start out here by making it sound like I forged something and then added your signature to make it look like something you had written:


 * "... this post I never made. He has included my signature and the date. It appears to other users as if I posted the information myself."


 * You did post that information yourself on my talk page. I only moved it in context. They are your words and signature and time. Don't try to make it sound otherwise. I would never "post(ing) your signature to things" you had not written, and I would not take them out of context and add them to another discussion of another subject. I was only keeping the discussion on the same page, especially since the context also involved other users and your accusations against them. As my response below explains, I am prepared to drop this matter if you don't restore you personal attacks and BLP violation. Otherwise I will go higher up and have a very strong case, since a previous editor who made the same false charges got banned, partially for showing intention (without even doing it) to out another user. That was the last straw after they had already repeatedly publicized private information about myself and made false and unproven COI allegations. You have already outed AvB, but since you may not have understood the seriousness of what you were doing, AvB is being very generous. If you heed his request and don't go there again you may be spared this time. -- <b style="color:#004000;">Fyslee</b>/<b style="color:#990099; font-size:x-small;">talk</b> 09:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't believe you openly admit it and still don't see how it's wrong. Can someone please explain how Fyslees actions (in his own words "I very precisely and carefully copied your statements (signature and all) ") are inappropriate. I'd truly appreciate this. I'm really sick of this user harassing me and I thinks it's gonna get ugly if someone doesn't set him straight on the appropriateness of copy-and-pasting other users signatures. &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble  <sup style="color:red;">puff  23:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Response to false charges and misuse of this board

I see that Metta Bubble has continued her disruptions, personal attacks, and BLP violations against myself and User:AvB at the Talk:Stephen_Barrett page, and has now escalated the matter by making false charges here. This false charge concerns ONE word which Metta Bubble wrote about me, and which I refactored to a more accurate word (which makes Metta Bubble look more charitable!), and then noted why I did it. The word was a repetition of a false charge from a RfArb. (That RfArb resulted in a banning of my accuser.) That charge was never proven and a repetition is simply a gross BLP violation and personal attack against myself. Making COI charges is a serious matter. Rather than take the matter to the BLP Noticeboard, I simply changed it and explained why, since I saw "no need to make waves." Metta Bubble decided to escalate the matter and reverted it (restoring BLP violations is a blockable offense, IIRC, while deleting such isn't even covered by 3rr) and deleted my explanation. Metta Bubble then took the discussion to my talk page, which I felt was problematic as it split the discussion, removing it from the relevant spot, which also involved other editors. I therefore copied very precisely and carefully (no "impersonation" at all, so she is deceiving this board) Metta Bubble's ensuing comments (they were indeed her comments!) and my own replies and placed them in the existing thread where they belonged, so others would know what was going on. Otherwise it would not be understandable. I also wished other editors to help me keep the BLP violation out of Wikipedia, and I made such a request.

She has also vandalized MY heading and is making a big issue out of it with another user (even claiming it was her heading).

Now she is calling me a vandal here (by wikilinking my name to "vandal"). She is getting more and more agitated and is attacking other users as well. Please get her to calm down and just leave the more accurate "POV" instead of the false "conflict" (COI) word in place. That will settle the matter for me.

In the meantime I will continue to remove the BLP violation against me in accordance with the requirement ("must") for any Wikipedia editor to do so if it pops up again. As of the time of this diff, the state of this word matter is acceptable to me.

These edit histories tell part of the story:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Stephen_Barrett&limit=500&action=history
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Metta_Bubble
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Fyslee
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Avb

-- <b style="color:#004000;">Fyslee</b>/<b style="color:#990099; font-size:x-small;">talk</b> 09:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Fyslee considers it a BLP violation that it's my opinion his edits reveal a conflict of interest on the article. &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble <sup style="color:red;">puff  23:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Request for Admin comment


 * Why has this user been allowed to get away with impersonating me? Have I brought this to the wrong page? &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble <sup style="color:red;">puff  00:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Both of you summarize your complaints in 100 words or less after my comment. Right now, this is an argument between the two of you that has spilled over onto this board. There is nothing we administrators can do without knowing what the hell is going on.— Řÿūłóñģ ( 竜龍 ) 00:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * copied my user post to an article talkspace (replying, inserting my message, then making a religious attack). He admits his behaviour here, stating "I very precisely and carefully copied your statements (signature and all)." He also deleted my posting about his Arbcom identified conflict of interest, claiming it is a BLP violation. I respected his refactoring though he was already cautioned. Some days later he continues to post religious attacks on me. I see his behaviour as wilfully inciting hostilities. I take impersonation and religious attacks to be critical community issues. &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble <sup style="color:red;">puff  07:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I see Metta Bubble continues to falsely charge me with "impersonation." If I had written a message and attached Metta's name to it, then that would indeed be impersonation, but I didn't. I simply copied a complete conversation, including sigs, to the existing thread on the article talk page so the discussion didn't get split up, and also because other editors were being attacked by Metta Bubble in that particular thread. Since everything related to that discussion was relevant for others to read, I just copied it. There was nothing remotely related to "impersonation" or any attempt to misrepresent, take out of context, or otherwise do anything improper. -- <b style="color:#004000;">Fyslee</b>/<b style="color:#990099; font-size:x-small;">talk</b> 14:59, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The other accusation about COI is misplaced. The RfArb listed my interests, but no COI was every proven. A shared POV does not a COI make, otherwise no one could edit here. Even a COI does not prevent editing if it doesn't affect the actual edits.


 * Her COI accusation was clearly a personal attack, as defined by the NPA policy:


 * using "someone's affiliations as a means of dismissing or discrediting their views - regardless of whether said affiliations are mainstream or extreme."
 * -- <b style="color:#004000;">Fyslee</b>/<b style="color:#990099; font-size:x-small;">talk</b> 14:59, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * "Religious attack"? Only pointing out the hypocrisy so evident. I admire the ideals of Buddhism, and when a Buddhist so evidently seeks and pursues conflict it seems rather hypocritical to me. She should live up to her ideals instead of making a mockery of them. -- <b style="color:#004000;">Fyslee</b>/<b style="color:#990099; font-size:x-small;">talk</b> 14:59, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Response to Fyslee's perspective: You can see in my second diff above (the insertion diff) that Fyslee made no attempt to identify he was citing text from another talk page. To any other user it would have appeared as if I had posted the comments myself. He is not merely citing me as he states, he is making it appear as though I was conversing with him on that page. Need I also note he continues his religious attacks above? &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble <sup style="color:red;">puff  04:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Thirdy party comments


 * Although not a party to this specific conflict, it is a bit of a spin-off of a conflict between Metta Bubble and me and I am mentioned above. Ryulong, if I can help, please let me know. I am still considering whether or not to ask an admin to step in and explain to Metta that "outing" and damaging another editor's real-life identity are blockable, sometimes bannable offenses. Apparently they do not accept this from me or other editors who have tried. Thanks. AvB &divide; talk  07:39, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * has a conflict with me and seems to be the reason his friend started attacking me. I haven't outed anybody and never posted information beyond what is already public on wikipedia. If these users want to pursue their accusations I'm happy to answer with diffs to refute any and all claims. However, I see this behaviour as tag-team filibustering. I can't imagine any forthcoming context for justifying impersonation and religious attacks on me. &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble  <sup style="color:red;">puff  12:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * ''See also Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents. AvB &divide; talk  14:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that several points should be considered here. (1) Fyslee may be hypersensitive to the words like "conflict" or "COI" since the ArbCom findings of fact he has been specifically ArbCom cautioned to "avoid the appearance of COI" (2) I think that it was not a good idea to involve religion in his discussion much less criticize another editor about it, (3) perhaps Metta should give more explanation of the form(s) or type of "conflict" meant or addressed, (4) I have questions about Fyslee's aggressive refactoring and claims of BLP on Metta when He [Fyslee] is reminded that editors with a known partisan point of view should be careful to seek consensus on the talk page of articles to avoid the appearance of a COI if other editors question their edits..    Fyslee may want to reconsider how others might perceive his rather totally involved status with things QW, related blogs, and conventional therapy (e.g vs QW counterparties and chiropratic) as to what constitutes COI vs pronounced POV.


 * I am unclear (on a prospective basis, not hindsight) how much Metta could have improved Fyslee's citation method that is part of the impersonation complaint and his refactoring of her comment to make her point (quit aggressive refactoring, be even more careful, ask first) w/o getting some flashback from Fyslee. Perhaps he should have broached it with her first rather than *insisting* it was a BLP. His reverting the wording change w/o prior acknowledgement (from Metta or another editor/admin) seems a questionable approach under the circumstances. Hopefully both can draw a breath and consider patching this over.--I&#39;clast 22:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * (1) He was cautioned to prevent the appearance of COI-influenced editing of article pages, not talk pages. (2) Like any other editor he is not only allowed but expected to remove unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons, including himself. Hypersensitivity does not enter the equation. (3) If an editor believes content is a BLP violation, it has to go. Remove first, talk later. (4) Why is refactoring COI/conflict to POV per WP:BLP on a talk page "aggressive"? (5) I'clast writes: Fyslee may want to reconsider how others might perceive his rather totally involved status with things QW, related blogs, and conventional therapy (e.g vs QW counterparties and chiropratic) as to what constitutes COI vs pronounced POV. Am I reading this correctly when I think you're suggesting that Fyslee should view the ArbCom ruling as too lenient and that he should read it as also applicable to talk pages ? AvB &divide; talk  00:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It should be noted that I'clast enjoys using the threat of a COI as a tool to suppress any discussion that he doesn't like. His disagreements with Fyslee is quite apparent in the ArbCom arguments and his use of a COI threat is just his latest technique, principally as it has had no repercussions onto the threatener (ie/ I'clast), to suppress those that he  doesn’t like.  Shot info  03:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Continued sniping, shot. I filed your COI paperwork long ago with the admins, the subject of most of our original dispute has been removed and presumably most of the COI rendered administratively moot. It is likely something of an administrative hot potato, you should now let it go too (I do not even dream that the filing would have repercussions for *me*). I am not "threatening" COI on Fyslee, if I were he would instantly know it.   I am pointing out that there is a fundamental problem with his unilateral refactoring now (post RFAR) of Metta Bubble without more discussion of precise words and intent, and even then the record of discussion should usually be sufficient w/o "refactoring" Talk.  Otherwise editors' discussion and meaning get highly distorted. There has been past refactoring to some of my edits (not Fyslee), and I now consider most refactoring extremely aggressive, vulnerable to severe intellectual dishonesty, and potentially, a hostile invitation that takes a lot of restraint to just let it pass w/o meaningful response. After Fyslee's refactoring, the discussion degenerated w/o really getting Metta Bubble's points properly developed and understood, where Fyslee has had cautions about perceived civility. Such haste to declare a BLP removal doesn't seem an optimal response since it risks early breakdown of AGF for the cautioned editor.--I&#39;clast 04:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * AvB, strictly speaking there is no literal limitation in the RFAR caution about "...edits" for Fyslee to just articles, rather that he should *seek consensus* on the Talk pages (which can also exhibit severe editorial "conflict" or COI). Further, Fyslee's finding of fact, above this caution, specifically included incivility etc, where he had tangled with others (e.g. Ilena), largely on the Talk pages, and the only remedy mentioned was this caution verbiage.


 * If an editor is having a conflict or COI problem with a previously warned editor who can get aggressive and simply rewrite history/comments the way the latter cautioned editor likes it based on his unilateral claims of BLP, such "lenient" interpretation incites the skip-jump escalation to administrative proceedings from a very minor level. Further, one of the problems encountered around the QW-SB-NCAHF space is that some "pro" editors *had* previously acquired bad habits, to varying degrees, about rewriting others' edits in the guise of "refactoring" and for (sometimes numerously and trivially) alleged policy violations. Bad enough to the point of having received direct warning from ArbCom members about this behavior (not Fyslee) *after* the RFAR. Long time readers of QW-SB-NCAHF space should already know now that such refactoring is considered a highly aggressive (and provocative) move without *utmost* caution and civility.  I would suggest that Fyslee practice his persuasive writing again (he's pretty good at it) and more often - I think it would have paid early dividends with Metta Bubble.  I also think that you three here at various parts of this ANI page should chillout now for 24 hours about each other, just cease fire.  Perhaps do a Q&A as you (AvB) and I did, then try to work out a modus vivendi and some reaffirmations of each other.--I&#39;clast 04:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Some points of order: cautioned editors are not fair game. They are allowed to edit exactly like other editors. The only difference is that other editors who feel they are ignoring the cautioning, may involve any admin to enforce anything that should enforced, and entered in a log if there is one. Regular editors are not supposed to edit war about what either is, or is not, a blockable or "warnable" offense. And since cautioning is nothing but a restating of normal policy, all (especially partisan) editors would do well to heed the same verbiage. I suggest that your rendering of what happened, clearly marks you as a partisan editor editing on the other side of the debate. AvB &divide; talk  11:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed regarding a chill out. I hope you don't mean I need one; I'm not involved in this particular report and only respond to what's written if I feel what I have to say will help - especially since the report is being ignored by uninvolved admins. In other words, if nothing's written, you won't see respond... At any rate, Metta has tried the "impersonation" trick before, and as far as I can see, it never worked. Perhaps an admin can close/archive this report straight away. It's been a discussion between parties for some time now, with only I'clast, Shot Info and me responding - and we're not admins. AvB &divide; talk  11:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Antoni Gaudí
Can some admin please take a look at Antoni Gaudí article?

There's a debate about the infobox and the field "Nationality" among users Maurice27 Xtv and me.

Thx in advance, --Casaforra (parlem-ne) 07:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It should be noted that besides the content dispute Maurice has been engaging on gross disruption to prove his point by continuing to tag the article as a hoax when it is blatantly not, then reverting everyone who removes the hoax tag. Content disputes is one thing, incivility and gross disruption and edit warring is another thing. Hence this post on ANI rather than dispute resolution. MartinDK 08:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

"A hoax is an attempt to trick an audience into believing that something false is real".

Those users have edited the article to add false facts, as shown here:


 * 
 * 

If it wasn't for the hoax tag, the article would have remained stating this gentleman was catalonian national, which is false as catalan nationality does not exist. Therefore, if hoax is to define "an attempt to trick an audience into believing that something false is real", I believe the tag to be correctly added.

In any case I may be called incivil as I haven't insulted anybody

In any case I may be accused of edit warring as I haven't touched the content of the article for 4 days, limiting myself at arguing my points on the talk page and adding the dispute tags.

--Maurice27 09:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't worry, Maurice27, I won't cp your derogatory comments here. Let's wait for the admins to read the talk page and they'll judge for themselves.
 * Then they'll notice your lack of respect and your insults which have brought you to be blocked several times before.
 * --Casaforra (parlem-ne) 10:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Maurice you seem to misunderstand what a hoax is. This person is blatantly real and not a hoax. You are using the wrong tag which is why you are being reverted. Please do not cause further disruption by inserting the hoax tag. As I explained to you it adds the article to the category of possible hoaxes which is disruptive because it wastes the time of those of us who monitor that category. Your incivility does not exactly help either and this article is not the only one where you continue to insert/change information that is apparently against what the majority believes to be true. Wikipedia is not a battleground and if you feel that the majority is wrong then all you have to do is provide reliable sources to support that. Repeatedly adding a hoax tag when told not to do so and why is futile disruption. MartinDK 10:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Martin is right, Maurice. The hoax template is used for articles that are patent nonsense as a whole, not for articles that may contain factual inaccuracies. For those articles, we have the disputed tag. A ecis Brievenbus 10:33, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Maurice27 is a user who, despite making some good edits, has too strong feelings about some facts. This, makes him loose (sometimes) respect to other users and he starts making personal attacks (last example, or just see his rich block log, in fact I already decided once not talking with him anymore until he apologised, but that day never came) in spite of bringing references. His answers to many discussions are simply "this are lies, try again" without justifying himself nor answering the questions. He usually doesn't try to find a consensus solution: his solution is the only possible, and even if everybody agree in a consensus but him, he continues reverting (last 3RR broken) or/and discussing (trolling?), which makes loose much, much time to many other users. Examples can be found in Gaudí, Talk:Catalonia or Talk:Valencian Community talk pages, among others.
 * I am really sorry for writting in this way about another user, but I think I (we) have lost enough time before reporting his way to contribute.
 * About Gaudí's nationality, I have already exposed my reasons in the talk page. I think the solution that Aecis is already NPOV and it can be a good solution. If however most of the people thinks different (which until now it is not the case), I will accept it and I won't continue discussing.--Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 19:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * This thread and the attention from uninvolved editors seems to have resolved the issue without the need for further preventive blocks or protection of the article. If any further issues should arise make sure that you take it to dispute resolution before the incivility gets out of hand. MartinDK 10:43, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

User:867xx5209 and personal attacks by their sock/meatpuppets
I have been documenting a case of sock/meatpuppets against a user in the sandbox User talk:72.75.70.147/sockpuppets (started before my IP was reset by a power failure), but as they have been posting personal attacks against me on article talk pages (see Talk:Gary Coull and Talk:Jing Ulrich) and the deletion review for an article that I tagged for speedy deletion (see Deletion review/Log/2007 June 23), accusing me of intentionally changing my IP address/username, when both my talk page and others linked to it make it very clear that my DSL connection changes at random intervals (as it did just a few days ago).

OTOH, this edit shows that they have been using both a registered account and an IP account to make their malicious edits against me at the same time ... I have tried to move our discussions into user space, but they (a) have not left any messages on my talk page, and (b) have not responded to messages left on any of their various talk pages.

Throughout this incident, I have tried to maintain Civility, but after their latest attack, I decided that I should probably post something here. &mdash; 17:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've left a note asking the user to please discontinue making any attacks or personal remarks. Sometimes, that is enough to defuse a situation. If problems continue please let me know. Newyorkbrad 21:23, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Newyorkbrad, but they have already been warned by myself and others, and I doubt that they will even notice your warning ... given that the content of their continued personal attacks indicates that they have not read any of the messages I have left on article discussion pages or their own (and sockpuppet) user talk pages, e.g., I have explained about my IP changing randomly, but they still accuse me of using multiple IP accounts to circumvent admin blocks and to be a "TROLL," I don't think that they even realize that messages are even being left for them in user space ... except for vandalizing and deleting warnings from user talk pages, all of their communications have been on article discussion pages or the DRV project page. &mdash;72.75.85.234 22:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Update: User:867xx5209 has tried to delete their attacks from the talk page (including one from their sock account, ), but they still have not offered any comments or apology for their actions. &mdash;72.75.85.234 12:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

User:The Matrix Prime
has a few troubling tendencies in their editing that might be worth an administrator taking a look at it. I realize that pointing out this kind of stuff can sometimes just antagonize and engender this kind of annoying behavior, but, here goes. There ya go. Am I being too sensitive to this because it's 3:30am and I can't sleep, or should someone step in and try again to help this editor out? --EEMeltonIV 07:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Blanking sections of talk page that criticize their posting behavior
 * Accusing users of "vandalism" when, in fact, they are responding to (sometimes undoing) their edits, or otherwise making edits they disagree with.
 * Marking substantial -- indeed, many -- edits as "minor". Marked one such edit as minor six minutes after I asked him to review WP:MINOR (and five minutes after they blanked that request).
 * I have reviewed the information submitted by EEMeltonIV. I certainly would not consider The Matrix Prime a model citizen on Wikipedia, but it's not yet time to block him.  I'll leave him a message. Shalom Hello 15:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

82.10.209.215 -- POV pushing and uncited, weasel-worded changes, refused to back down and consistent reverts
This user has made a number of POV and weasel worded edits to a number of pages in the ever-raging EMFs and health related articles (Electrosmog, Electrical sensitivity, Electromagnetic radiation and health). User reverts any attempts to restore an attempt of NPOV to the article, and consistently fails to cite and/or support his statements. User also has removed existing cited reference material that differs from his/her POV. I am sure that intent is good, but consistent reverts and re-edits appears to be bordering on vandalism. Would appreciate warning and redirection to Wikipedia policies in the short term. Topazg 10:24, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Not vandalism, but certainly stubborness. I think s/he is already familiar with Wikipedia's policies, given the acronym use of NPOV, NOR, etc. I've left a friendly suggestion on the IP's talk page to cool off and discuss the issues on the talk page instead of making rapid-fire edits to the articles. We'll see. MastCell Talk 15:14, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

202.6.146.39 messing with Mythbusters
202.6.146.39 has repeatedly edited the Mythbusters article, adding in a highly POV, unsourced alternate history and claims of fraud, etc. The mess has been reverted several times by several people, only to have it return. User has recieved warnings, including being told not to counter the reverts, but has continued. The wording of the additions suggests that the user might be writing about themself. This needs to stop. Jax184 11:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I suggest issuing a block to cool the user off, because all other communication methods have failed, judging by the user's contributions and the article history. Maybe 24 hours? -- Evilclown93 (talk)  11:47, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've semi-protected the article for 24 hours. I'll keep an eye on the IP and take further preventative action if it becomes disruptive. Shadow1  (talk) 13:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

User: Blahman1985
After reverting his vandalism of John Kim (his first edits), has been harrasing me, undoing some of my edits and leaving block-warnings on my talk page (all other of his edits). Lars T. 15:24, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I left a note on his talk page, so we'll see how he responds. It looks like he may have logged out to continue anonymously though.  Leebo  T / C  15:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) :This is a valid complaint. I would recommend a 24h block for harassment of Lars T. and 3RR even though the user has not been warned. In the future, Lars T., please warn users before you notify us. Believe it or not, it sometimes gets them to stop, and it's the right thing to do. Shalom Hello 15:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I suspected a user who throws around block warnings won't care if he received one. Lars T. 16:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's still worth saying something, and it's probably better to write a personalized warning, rather than a templated one.  Leebo  T / C  16:55, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Skymac207 operating under an IP?
Apparently is under an indefinite block for vandalism and incivility. An IP user,, recently signed comments on Talk:Alice in Wonderland (1951 film) with "Skymac207" The editing pattern looks similar enough that I doubt it's impersonation. The IP has had several questionable edits of late, though I don't know enough about them to know if they should be reverted. Powers T 15:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've blocked for 24 hours for incivility and suspected sockpuppetry. You're right, the editing patterns DO look similar, although I'm wondering if it's someone trying to get Skymac in more trouble than he already is. Shadow1  (talk) 16:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well either way he/she shouldn't be doing it, right? =)  Should I revert the IP's recent edits?  Powers T 16:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppets and
Requests for checkuser says that no checkuser is needed for disruptive throwaway account used only for a few edits, so I am posting this here.

I noticed an anonymous linkspammer adding an external link to a community forum site on three different Asian music pages. I reverted these per WP:EL and posted warnings. Shortly after the final warning, another user account appeared and posted the same links to the same pages again, and this account has been used only for linkspamming.

I suspect the account was created to evade the warnings and avoid potential blocking. Please investigate. =Axlq 18:02, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yup, seems pretty obvious. I've indefinitely blocked the named (sockpuppet) account, and blocked the IP for 72 hours for both egregious spamming and using multiple accounts to do so. In the future, you can go to suspected sock puppets, but in clear-cut cases with ongoing spamming that needs to be stopped, I guess this is faster. MastCell Talk 18:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, that was quick. I didn't know about the WP:SSP page; I was going by Sock puppetry which said to post here or at WP:AIV - and because vandalism wasn't involved, the only choice left was to post here. =Axlq 18:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem; for really obvious ones like that, AN/I is fine (and probably faster). More complex cases, requiring some investigation, are best handled at WP:SSP. MastCell Talk 18:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Centrx and my sigs
User:Centrx is mass reverting my modifications of my own signatures which is explicitly allowed as per Username policy. Centrx failed to convince Grutness that he has valid points. In addition a 3rd opinion was filed and was responded to, feel free to have a read of it.

Centrx is engaged in a revert war over my sigs on multiple pages including ones inside my userpsace. Centrx believes that I have a malicious intent for modifying my sig. I believe that also violates WP:AGF.

-- Cat chi? 23:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The policy talks about removing personal information. It's not like you used to use your real name, so I see no way that you could call Cool Cat something personal and identifying. -- (Review Me) R Parlate Contribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 23:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I strongly desire to change my sig. Thats all the policy expects. -- Cat chi? 23:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I would suggest you notice the writing on the wall, and catch on that repeatedly changing your sig on every page you've ever posted on is an obnoxious waste of time and resources. --tjstrf talk 23:25, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not think resources is an issue and its my time to waste. At least according to the devs I talked to. En.wiki receives several thousand edits per day. Centrx is wasting more of our resources by repetively revert waring over this. -- Cat chi? 23:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Once again, here's an exact quote of policy: "If you feel strongly about personal information no longer being on visible pages on the site, you can edit these pages to remove your signature." The username "Cool Cat" does in no way, reveal your personal information, so there is no personal info for you to feel strongly about. Because of that, policy doesn't allow you to do what you're doing. -- (Review Me) R Parlate Contribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 23:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Lets say you are right for the sake of argument, there still is nothing prohibiting from fixing my sigs. I am allowed to change my sigs and even comments on non-archived talk pages by default. Although discouraged, I am even allowed to remove my comments altogether if I do so desire - especially in my userspace. -- Cat chi? 23:44, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason in changing your past sigs other than aesthetic effect? — Kurykh  23:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. I am sorting my sigs by year. It is particularly helpful for me. I can explain additional reasons in private if you like. Though, I would like to add (no offense), I shouldn't really need a reason aside from "my strong desire". :) -- Cat chi? 00:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Centrx did not say he believes you have a malicious intent for modifying your signature. Regardless, why is this topic back here? At least Centrx has been kind enough to keep this trivial matter off the AN and ANI. Seriously, why is this so darn important to you? (And, to Centrx as well, why is this so darn important?) It takes two to tango; one of you just stop already. --  tariq abjotu  23:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Why did you move your mediation committee page? Is that really necessary? And what was the purpose of blanking the origin page and re-adding the same content? Was that in an attempt to make moving the page back more difficult? (If that was your intent, that doesn't do much). --  tariq abjotu  00:01, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I am more than allowed to move old references to my former username. I did this before with my first RFA. I forgot about the mediation case till recently. Why should I even need to provide an explanation? The complaint is Centrx's mass revers btw. -- Cat chi? 00:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's still rather pointless to continue to 1) remove references to your old name and 2) revert war over it when all it is, is your signature. Damn near everyone realizes that Cool Cat = White Cat at this point. Even if people didn't realize it by the signature, they could equally just check the history of any page you edited and it says White Cat now. — M o e   ε  00:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I have protected the MedCom nomination from editing and moves. I think it's generally best if closed nominations not be edited in any way, and this includes their location.  Daniel  07:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Really? What difference does the title of a medcab nom have to its content. Who is the candidate? Is it a lie to say that the candidate is me? -- Cat chi? 16:32, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

This wouldn't have been an issue if the second involved party hadn't started reverting harmless changes. I think going back and editing your old sigs isn't really useful, but any argument against it (server load, disruption, etc) can be equally made against reverting edits to old sigs.

Anyhow, this isn't prohibited, and User:White Cat shouldn't have to justify themselves in re. this. It's a personal choice, not a community one, and there's no reason that a personal (albeit retroactive) aesthetic choice should be made by committee. <em class="user-sig user-Adrian">—Adrian~enwiki (talk) 2007-06-25 01:03Z
 * He's been warned about this, twice. Originally he had a bot doing the changes in mass. He is editing community talk pages, so it's not just up to him. -- Ned Scott 01:11, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry to butt in, but why oh why does anyone care what he does to his own sigs if he's not being incivil or disruptive or trying to hide who made the comments? (he's actually making it more clear who made the comments)  Someguy1221 01:15, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Because he's repeatedly been disruptive about it, and repeatedly told not to do it. -- Ned Scott 01:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Forgive me for not being involved in the previous discussions concerning this, but....why has he been told not to do it? I am straining to rationalize the edit wars this is causing.  Someguy1221 01:26, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe it's been opposed for a variety of reasons by different people. Personally I dislike it because, unless you actually are leaving Wikipedia and vanishing, you don't get to put your previous ID down the memory hole like this. --tjstrf talk 04:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Except that White Cat/Coolcat is clearly not trying to vanish, if you look at his userpage. He's actually making it easier for anyone reading old archives to find out the username currently being used by Coolcat, as well as still being able to see Coolcat's contribs (linked to right from White Cat's userpage).  I still believe a mere redirect from his old userpage to his new one would be oh so much easier (I'm not finding it possible to comprehend why that wasn't done, looking through old discussions), other users have done that upon changing username.  Someguy1221 04:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Just redirect all of the pointers to the old names into the new one and stop changing the sigs. This the second time I have seen this issue come up here since your name change and this is frankly getting me pissed off. Why are you making this hard on yourself White Cat; just make things easier so you can go back to editing. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 09:18, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Except that White Cat/Coolcat is clearly not trying to vanish - Not what was claimed: he's clearly trying to whitewash his reputation, given that the simplest thing he could have done was put a redirect at User:Cool Cat -- which he not only hasn't done, but has had the page protected so it CAN'T be done. Presumably he's trying to obscure something like [this. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] | Talk 14:56, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed it was all to hide my block log. Man am I exposed... Seriously have you actually seen my userpage? I link to that very log and far more (not that I am expected/required to do so). Also my sig does not link to my block log. Me fixing my sigs is more like "admitting guilt" if anything. Your accusations are baseless and unfounded.
 * Zscout370 I am not making this hard on myself. There is a person reverting me on multiple pages. And not just any pages but discussion pages (article content isn't in jeopardy) including the ones in my userspace.
 * If the precondition for me to fix my sigs is my leavening of the project, that can be arranged - though I believe such a demand would be out of proportion. I dispute the validity of those "variety of reasons".
 * This is a complaint on Centrx's behaviour. Strangely almost no one seems to be commenting to that end. 3rd opinion and Grutness's conversation with Centrx is pretty clear on this. The policy is also clear on this even though people are interpreting stuff not written on it.
 * I am not the first person to fix his/her sigs people...
 * -- Cat chi? 16:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see the point, but I also don't see what the big fuss is about. If Cat wants to make a fresh start, great, as the old Cool Cat account had more blocks than a daycare full of toddlers, and I can thoroughly understand that. Is it obfuscating GFDL by changing all those talk page attributions?  If it isn't, then Centrx, let him do what he likes.  Neil   ╦  16:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Your accusations are baseless and unfounded. Reeeeally. Then mind explaining why you haven't done the simplest thing you could do -- why, in fact, you've taken active steps to PREVENT the simplest thing you can do from being done -- namely adding a redirect to User:Cool Cat? Instead, you are doing things in the most difficult way imaginable and bitching about it every step of the way. --Calton | Talk 20:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Not that I really need to give an explanation for it - just to set the record straight...
 * I desire not to be associated as "Cool Cat" from now on. I want to however be associated with the edits (good or bad) of "Cool Cat" since I am the same person. As you pointed out, I have a depressingly long block log. I made no attempt to hide it. In fact I advertise it more than I should. If I desired to "hide" anything I would merely register a new account without using any associated with this one.
 * Deletion of User:Cool Cat went to MfD and later deletion review only because User:Ned Scott repetitively recreated the page. He even revert wared with multiple admins over the closures of the MfD. You may not have noticed this but my former talk page is actually a redirect.
 * I intend to clear all of the material in the userspace of "Cool Cat" (all of them are redirects) but the talk page. This is maintenance related and does not have any other purpose at least not to my knowledge.
 * The very point of a signature is to "identify" the person making the comment. Updating it is to better represent/identify the person making the comment. Mediawiki software currently does not have the capability to update users sigs as it is updating their contribution history after an account rename. I think of making a sig to match the username that appears in page history to be good practice.
 * I also ask you to be civil. No one is "bitching" about anything.
 * -- Cat chi? 15:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Edit point

 * Am I the only one who thinks this is getting really ridiculous? Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 18:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I think this is simply the case of a user trying to achieve legitimate intentions (look at User:White Cat if you doubt this) in an absurdly inefficient manner, leaving aside for a moment the bot issue. Please, please just redirect the old userpage before more WP:LAME worthy material is created, although I do believe that reverting White Cat's sig changes is utterly pointless, whatever policies say (aren't we supposed to ignore those?).  Someguy1221 23:33, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not believe Centrix's action has any policy basis, on the contrary he is contradicting some such as Username policy explicitly allowing what I am doing. I do not desire to have a redirect at my former userpage. I do have a redirect on my former talk page which should be adequate for people stumbling on my former userpage. -- Cat chi? 15:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Although it applies by the spirit and not by the word, lets review Right to vanish
 * "If you have used your real name, or a longstanding pen name, on Wikimedia projects then in principle everything you write can be traced to that name, and thus to you, as discussed above . However, if you decide to leave Wikimedia projects, there are a few steps that you can take to weaken that connection."
 * "Change your username to some other name, one which is not directly associated with you"
 * This is done as per my request. Page implies this is the "hard part".
 * "Change references to your former username to be referenced to your replacement username"
 * Centrx is reverting edits in parallel with this.
 * "Delete your user and user talk subpages"
 * It is being implied above that I must have a redirect on my former userpage contradicting the logic behind this.
 * "Add a brief note indicating that you have left Wikimedia projects and asking that people not refer to you by your name"
 * It is being implied that I need to comply with this in order to be allowed to commit the two (#2&3) items above.
 * What I desire to do is in parallel with the logic above minus #4.
 * -- Cat chi? 20:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, in case anyone is still reading this, I honestly find White Cat's actions to be perfectly reasonable though inefficient (aside from any allegations of unapproved bot edits, and the possible exception of editing another user's talk archive). I still fail to understand what would possess anyone to revert war over this, once one realizes that White Cat has never been trying to hide his past.  Someguy1221 02:39, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I really think this whole drama is beyond logic. :) -- Cat chi? 22:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Baseball Bugs and Wikistalking
User:Baseball Bugs has been following me around and will not leave me alone. Some of his comments are rather benign, but his activity is very counter productive. He has commented on a number of articles that clearly have little to do with what he is interested in and everything to do with what edits I make. I just want the guy to leave me alone. Can someone please help? //Tecmobowl 12:54, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've examined the allegation, and it is legitimate: Baseball Bugs has edited several articles (not reverted, just edited) minutes after Tecmobowl has edited. ArbCom precedent in the RickK vs. TheRecyclingTroll case has established such behavior as a violation of Harassment.


 * I'll give Baseball Bugs a stern warning. If he persists, please report him to WP:AIV or WP:AN3 or here again. Shalom Hello 15:05, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, this is a very touchy situation and all i want to do is get the content on here better. //Tecmobowl 15:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It might be time for an admin to step in here. //Tecmobowl 19:50, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Tecmobowl has a history of contentiousness with many users, with being blocked for edit warring, and for engaging in sockpuppetry to get around that block. We have both edited hundreds of articles on baseball, and our crossover has been on very few of them. He has filed numerous complaints against anyone who dares to challenge his edits, and none of his complaints have come to anything, once the admins learn the whole picture of his behavior. After being asked by Shalom (who has since decided he wants nothing to do with this matter) to stop "following" Tecmo (the same complaint Tecmo's sockpupper User:El redactor had made), I have further backed off from engaging him. However, I reserve the right to edit pages that are of interest to me, even if they happen to coincide with pages that Tecmobowl edits. Baseball Bugs 08:03, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Leave me alone. I am not a sock, you believe that I am ... those are two different things.  Stop following me around.  Editing pages that interest you is one thing, following me around is another thing.  LEAVE ME ALONE!!!! //Tecmobowl 11:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The evidence shows that you have engaged in sockpuppetry. And since you never have the courtesy to notify me directly about these complaints of yours, I have to monitor your "contributions" list to find out about them. Your goal, apparently, is to find a way to prevent me from editing any baseball articles that you also edit. In fact, there is very little crossover in our respective articles. But you do not have the right to "own" any page, nor to arbitrarily exclude someone from editing a page just because you don't like that editor. Baseball Bugs 12:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * DOES ANYONE ELSE HERE READ WHAT I AM SAYING _ GET THIS GUY TO LEAVE ME A LONE!!!!! MY GOAL IS TO GET HIM TO STOP TALKING TO ME AND STOP FOLLOWING ME AROUND>>>MY GOAL IS TO MOVE THE FUCK ON>>>AM I MAD - NO >>> AM I TYPING IN ALL CAPS TO GET ATTENTION -> YES!!!!! GET HIM TO LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!! //Tecmobowl 12:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

One curious recent incident is Tecmobowl's editing of the user page for User:El redactor to remove the information about El redactor being Tecmobowl's sockpuppet. This is in keeping with Tecmobowl's tendency to blank out his own talk page (this, for example), which is considered impolite (and uncivil... see above) under wikipedia standards. Editing of user pages by anyone other than the page's owner is generally frowned upon, and removal of such notices is against the rules. However, Tecmobowl's editing of El redactor's user page in general is arguably OK, since he has been demonstrated to be that page's creator. Baseball Bugs 12:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * As a note, I'm unwatching this bullshit. Nobody wants to stop it, fine, I'll just bite the guy back. //Tecmobowl 15:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Today it was proven that Tecmobowl used sockpuppetry to get around his previous block, and today he was issued a 1-week suspension for disruptive behavior. Baseball Bugs 00:12, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Metta Bubble refuses to acknowledge "outing" another editor
See also Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents

On Talk:Stephen Barrett Metta Bubble has "outed" my real-life identity, damaging both my Wikipedia and real-life reputations, brought assorted unwarranted COI accusations presented as "questions", also violating WP:BLP and WP:NPA. I responded to the questions and explained about the various blockable offenses. I hoped that my explanations would be understood and taken to heart and let it go, under the impression that Metta wanted the conflict to end (see my talk page e.g. here) and had realized there was, indeed, a problem with their behavior. I myself had also responded somewhat irritatedly, and I assumed this was more a question of temper than one of extreme policy violations - lessons learned all around (although I do not believe I have violated any policies here. If so, please let me know).

However - I regularly look at problems here and on the BLP noticeboard to see if I can be of some help. Yesterday I noticed this AN/I report where Metta was accusing one of the other editors they had accused of a COI worthy of an ArbCom arbitration and tried to resolve the conflict. Being mentioned there, I posted some background in the Metta's report. Their responses opened my eyes to the fact that there is no discernible learning curve here.

Here are some relevant diffs (a number of intermediate posts not included):


 * post by Metta Bubble
 * response by Avb
 * response by Metta Bubble
 * Avb posts defense against allegations
 * more by Avb
 * attempt by Avb to explain and resolve the problem
 * Avb refactors Barrett talk page to remove WP:BLP/WP:NPA violations & repair "identity outing" etc. now that it has been discussed
 * attempt by Avb to discuss the issue
 * Metta Bubble denies the problem
 * more explanations by Avb
 * Metta Bubble denies the problem on AN/I

I would appreciate it if an admin could explain the problems here to Metta and ask them not to "out" other editors?

Thanks -- AvB &divide; talk  14:17, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

PS My user page history (the real-life info had been lifted from an old version) has just been deleted at my request in order to prevent repetition. AvB &divide; talk  14:58, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Metta Bubble, investigating a possible COI, finds information in your User Page history then mentions it in a discussion about a possible COI. You remove the information and delete your User page's history, and note that you want this information kept private.  Has Metta revealed this information since you removed it? –Gunslinger47 15:54, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I removed it probably a year ago by blanking the page/adding new contents. It was useful at the time as a declaration of my possible COI since I was editing related articles back then. But (as always) it remained somewhere at the bottom of the history. Other editors are not supposed to use it, and that's what I told Metta very early on. Instead of removing it from the article and disengaging from this specific line of questioning, they expanded on it. Regardless, simply editing user page info out should be sufficient. I never expected another editor to do dig up a very old version, let alone doing something like this. As a result of this experience I then had my user page history removed. I haven't heard from Metta since then. AvB &divide; talk  16:10, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Circular accusations of COI have been a staple of Stephen Barrett and related articles for some time. I must say that the "evidence" here is extremely weak (i.e. you are a health-care critic, so is Stephen Barrett, therefore you have a COI). And digging through year-old userpage diffs and then posting identifying information in article-talk space, in service of such a weak COI accusation, bothers me substantially. I've been previously heavily involved (and now very occasionally involved) in Barrett-related pages, so I'm not in a position to objectively evaluate this situation as an outside admin, but I would urge an uninvolved admin with patience and a streak of masochism to review this situation carefully. We've already had one such conflict on these pages end up in a prolonged and nasty ArbCom case. MastCell Talk 16:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Metta was being extremely silly there. The evidence proved the converse (example: it lists many chiropractors). For the rest, "nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition". And the reverse is also true; I simply want this user to understand the situation and never do something like this again. Mastcell and others who have helped to explain this so far, thanks a lot. AvB &divide; talk  16:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Response to accusations

 * I have never posted information a user asked me not to. <unsourced info about an old user page deleted >1 year ago and oversighted yesterday removed by AvB>. It was me who first raised <unsourced info about an old user page deleted >1 year ago and oversighted yesterday removed by AvB> in a general question. In reply AvB outed him/herself by posting links to a website. I subsequently posted links also. <links removed by AvB> Then AvB urged me to reread his/her links. (see last paragraph). S/he was reluctant to discuss the issues and had hoped his/her links spoke for themselves. . His/her explanation was more than enough for me and I was ready to move on. Over the ensuing days got progressively more aggressive at me, attempting to fan discord about this issue and ultimately resulting in me filing an incident report here. It appears my incident report has fueled this incident report as though the two are related. They are not.


 * My line of questioning AvB didn't come out of nowhere. We had been discussing each others neutrality for a few days.     Early on s/he said to me "I know my own biases and will never deny them. In fact I'm proud of them.".


 * I know making COI assertions is a serious business and I don't shy away from this. However, there has already been at least one Arbcom case regarding the Stephen Barrett article involving COI (I think more than one) so I don't see it as breaking propriety to raise the issue during talk page discussion that civilly migrated towards the topic of COI. Thanks. p.s. Please don't split my post &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble <sup style="color:red;">puff  01:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The deletions to my post above have little to do with sensitive information. The first phrase deleted by Avb was <unsourced info about an old user page deleted >1 year ago and oversighted yesterday removed by AvB> The second phrase deleted was "In reply". The words "Avb outed" ran together in my original post but have now been separated by a "refactored" notice. Why? There was nothing there to refactor. The net effect is to destroy the grammar of my post and render it unreadable. I'm not surprised Avb attempted this sabotage since my post clearly showed s/he actually outed her/himself. Here is my original defense to her/his accusations . &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble <sup style="color:red;">puff  12:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I once again note that you were quoting information you lifted from a user page I deleted about a year ago. Deletion of information from one's user page (though retaining old versions in the history) is quite sufficient to convey overriding privacy concerns. It tells other users one no longer wishes the deleted information to be used. Quoting a year-old user page version to out another editor is frowned upon just as much as using information, old or recent, acquired off-site. And since that was not enough for you, I have also debated the point, and told you, and asked you, not to use it, and finally had the history deleted altogether. And still you're quoting from it.


 * Apparently you do not see the common denominators in my changes to your edit. I have again refactored, this time in a way that you will hopefully understand better instead of using it to attack me once again. The following aspects played a role in my refactoring:
 * (1) Please stop identifying my supposed gender. I no longer wish to be associated with a specific gender or lack of one. When I joined Wikipedia, I self-identified as a male, but I no longer do. This was one of the reasons why I deleted the gender information from my user page about a year ago. I have accepted being addressed as a male by many users as a convenience, and will probably continue to do so, but I will not accept it from you. I regard my gender, phenotype and genotype, as a very private aspect of my identity. I have awarded you the same courtesy until very recently; then I decided to address you as a female like some other editors. Please forgive me if that has angered you and feel free to refactor it like I have refactored your edit above.
 * (2) Please address me as AvB, not Avb.
 * (3) The web site you referred to is not mine, and it has never been mine. It is owned and mostly run by its webmaster. Regardless, it shows the same problems with Barrett I had already conveyed earlier, not a positive COI but a slightly negative POV. You are inserting new accusations as you go. Are you done now? AvB &divide; talk  13:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * * Apparently Avb thinks it's okay to accuse me and then delete my defense (twice). Now he's saying I should be banned for identifying him as male. Good grief, seriously, WP:POINT. &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble <sup style="color:red;">puff  22:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Request for admin comment
"Outing" (linking someone's real life identity with their Wikipedia user name) anywhere on Wikipedia is not allowed. Doing so to make accusations is worse. Doing so to make unfounded COI accusations is even worse. Quite clearly, Metta Bubble still does not understand the problems caused by outing (esp. linked with accusations like "smell a rat" - "COI" - "Arbcom"). She still denies any wrongdoing, and feels free to do this again, even on AN/I (I've removed some of it). This flies in the face of current Wikipedia practice. Metta Bubble also removed the explanation given by User:Hypnosadist on her talk page here with the edit summary (Thanks for letting me know but actually you're relying on gossip and heresay. Good luck with the policy).

Hypnosadist, thanks for explaining to Metta. Would you agree with Metta that you were relying on gossip and hearsay? If you simply responded to my request to explain why outing is not a good idea, could you or an uninvolved admin click through to my diffs given above and give an opinion whether or not this type of public investigative journalism/OR/advertising is acceptable behavior?

The point is not that real-life info can be found somewhere in a corner of the internet; it's being advertised on a live page on Wikipedia, the world's #10 website. Should I be monitoring all Metta's contributions here on Wikipedia now for a repeat? She thinks doing so would be OK. When something similar or worse stays up for too long, banning Metta will not repair it. We really need to hear her say she won't do anything like this again. AvB &divide; talk  11:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Partial rebuttal
(1) Everyone is invited to read my diffs which tell the full story before MB rewrote it. (2) The COI assertions came out of the blue. MB had been questioning my neutrality for days   , not vice versa as claimed. (3) The "outing" was done by info in Metta Bubble's (unsourced = BLP violation) "general question" (=COI attack #1) linking me with a history at a domain name. Note that mere links are not a problem; it's the context of someone saying e.g. "his website" and unjustified criticism that makes it dangerous. And Metta's freely quoting from privacy-related user page information (containing personal affiliations and a real-life name) removed a long time ago is a blockable offense.

Some concerns
Editors should not make things easy for the dark side. Seeing a searchable page of the world's #10 website connecting my real-life ID with "where you vacation" suddenly makes such details (scattered throughout Wikipedia) dangerous. The mention by Metta of these and other details, such as "the size of your family," sounds quite ominous. Suddenly there's the possibility that lunatics who hate my guts on Wikipedia could be waiting for me with a gun around every corner. Also note that this outing goes two ways. It informs lunatics editing Wikipedia about my real-life ID just as readily as it informs lunatics from both the past (now dug up by Metta) and the present about my Wikipedia ID. AvB &divide; talk  11:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Can someone please block this user?
I've had enough. All I asked for was for Metta to say they wouldn't do this again to me or other editors, and still they continue. Can someone please block User:Metta_Bubble for repeatedly restoring unsourced BLP information about myself, here and on the Barrett talk page? The sources offered are a long deleted user page I had also oversighted last Monday because Metta kept quoting from it (diff). Some hours later Metta again quoted from it on this AN/I page, and today again, repeating something I had reverted. Diffs: First reinsertion. Refactored by AvB. Second reinsertion. This is mainly about linking my Wikipedia ID with with my real-life identity and a specific web site. These reinsertions simply repeated earlier accusations, did not add anything and were quite unnecessary for the AN/I process. Editors who were there already know due to Metta's insistence that this is allowed, and I say that should be quite enough. Thanks. AvB &divide; talk  14:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I didn't do anything to you in the first place. Quit lying. &#2384; <strong style="color:orange;">Metta Bubble <sup style="color:red;">puff  22:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Compromised account
Umm...we may have a rouge admin or compromised account: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&diff=140792037&oldid=139821505. Since this is serious, I'm brining it here first. If it happens again, someone should get on the steward channel. -- (Review Me) R Parlate Contribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 19:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Only a single incident, so it might just be a mistake. Still, worth keeping an eye on... thanks for the report, R. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 19:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * And Ryan has reverted it. If only I could do that myself :). -- (Review Me) R Parlate Contribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 19:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Judging by the message at the top of his talk page, he's on vacation right now. So either somebody else is using his home computer while he's gone (a sibling perhaps), or he left his account logged in from a cyber cafe he was using, and somebody else found it. Either way, I'd recommend a warning to him to be more careful with account security, especially as an admin. And perhaps a preventative de-admining until his return from vacation in July/August (though for that I'd wait until we see if it continues to happen, or just the once). --Maelwys 19:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict, though it seems the person I conflicted has the same idea) And my best guess would be a compromised account, because the message on his talk page says he may be editing through WiFi networks and cybercafes. Maybe (s)he forgot to log in.
 * Account temporarily desysoped by Shanel. -- (Review Me) R Parlate Contribs@ (Let's Go Yankees!) 19:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * (ec) Looking at his/her contributions suggests this might be possible, as the mainpage vandalism occured some two hours after some typical contributions. And I see he's been de-sysopped. Flyguy649talkcontribs 19:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Admins should be able to force an account to log out, not effecting the actual account. This would help recover accounts where the usurper does not know the password. Until(1 == 2) 19:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's an interesting idea, but if he does know the password we've done nothing, and temporary blocks have pretty much the same effect. One day we might have it so anyone on wikiholiday can't edit to prevent this kind of thing, who knows? SGGH speak! 20:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

This has now been dealt with, AndonicO has regained full control of his account and has been resysopped. Luckily there was no lasting damage. I also changed the title of this section to something more appropriate.  Majorly  (talk) 21:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * So it's a Bad Idea to ever edit with an admin account on a public computer? 201.81.193.237 22:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC) (Fvasconcellos (t·c), at an Internet café, checking before I log in :)—will somehow "validate" this comment when I get home) —Fvasconcellos (t·c) 01:34, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * In a way, yes. Probably it's best to create an alternate account. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 01:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * If you must do this, you can gain a measure of security (from keyloggers, anyway) by copying/pasting letters to enter your password. Feezo (Talk) 02:40, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for what has happened. Apparently, someone overrided the password on my laptop when I wasn't there (I don't know how exactly, but something to do with pressing shift and typing "administrator" somewhere), and saw that my wikipedia account was logged in (with "Remember me"). He vandalized the Main Page, and then stopped. He does not know either my password to my computer or wikipedia, which are both according to policy (over 20 characters comprised of random letters,&mdash;both capital and lower-case&mdash;numbers, symbols, and spaces). Even so, I will no longer use "Remember me", as it seems the computer's password can be bypassed. Once again, my deepest apologies for the trouble. · AndonicO Talk 22:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * So a button that admins can use to force someone to log out would have helped. Until(1 == 2) 04:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * A security tip (for Windows, not WP): at the login screen, press  twice if using the Welcome screen to get a logon box up. Log in as , no password. Change the password for this account when you're in, and write it down. This is something of a "security hole" in Windows XP. This, that and the other [ talk ] 07:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Personal attack
I would like to complain user HanzoHattori who on 20 May 2007 wrote this. I have added some text to Anna Politkovskaya article and he called it "truly idiotic writing". I am tired of this "My sources are better and you are an idiot" approach. Vlad fedorov 03:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay... And what do you expect us to do for a single comment made a month ago? If it's an ongoing issue, you could try dispute resolution or third opinion. Grand  master  ka  03:57, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I was unable to complain because I was blocked due to friends of HanzoHattori. And looking into block history of HanzoHattori, I see it is not the first time he abuses other editors calling them "fags" and falsely accusing other of violations. Vlad fedorov 04:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This editor seems to have a history of personal attacks and edit warring. This isn't exactly a single comment.--Crossmr 01:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion of Elan School
Resolved contacted me yesterday to ask me about the deletion of Elan School - an article that Kappa created. I speedied the article as spam becuase the tagged version read like a brochure - hardly surprising given that I later discovered that large chunks of ther article were actualy copyvios from the school website. I left Kappa a message to the effect that I would happily undelete (the was a safe version to revert to) but asked him to make sure that he kept an eye on the article to prevent the copyvios creeping in. I woke up this morning to find the article was at DRV and that Kappa had left an exceedingly uncivil message for me on his talk page.

I'm a very new admin and would appreciate some feedback on this. Clearly the article shouldn't have been speedied because there was a safe article to fall back to but was it unreasonable for me to ask Kappa to make sure he kept an eye on the article before I undeleted it? I'm sure I saw something somewhere that we shouldn't keep articles if they weren't being maintained but I can't remember whether this was official. I'd appreciate some guidence for the next time I run into this kind of situation. Cheers Spartaz Humbug! 08:01, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Just undelete it now, and the problem is over. Kappa's comments with the profanity were unhelpful, but it's peanuts compared to the stuff you will face later as an admin (many people tend to be a bit touchy with things you can do as an admin, and which they can't easily reverse, and reactions to this vary from the understanding, to the annoyed, to the downright rude). :-) Don't take it too hard that you deleted something by mistake, admins do make mistakes, and that's OK as long as they acknowledge them, as you have done. Kappa is semi-retired from Wikipedia, and has been for a few months, and it is not really his responsibility (or anyone else's) to maintain and watch over articles, on an all-volunteer project that is a community responsibility. Sjakkalle (Check!)  08:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, the speedy deletion was a mistake, but you seem to have acknowledged that and so it doesn't really matter. The incivility is definitely uncalled for, but I would probably shy away from placing any sort of requirement, even informal, on an editor to maintain a page &mdash; it sort of implies that you're apportioning some degree of blame, even if that's not your intention, and can be taken the wrong way.  --Haemo 08:13, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I know it says 'resolved', but I'd like to reaffirm a sentiment that no-one except Kappa has expressed here thus far: it is always important to check the history before deleting a page. That's why the link is duplicated in the CSD tags. --Random832 02:35, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * (ec) Well, I'm not going to comment on the speedy (too late here!) but that comment was uncalled for. I left a message on their talk page & we'll see what happens. You might, as a courtesy, maybe point out this conversation on ANI, so they can weigh in - A l is o n  ☺ 08:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I notifed Kappa four minutes after raising this thread. I have now restored the article. Thanks everyone for the support and advice. Spartaz Humbug! 09:19, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Lamename3000 -- off-site mediation appropriateness and other issues
I was wondering if this attempt to hold mediation off-site is acceptable? I've observed other problems with this user, such as attempts at "forum shopping" to ensure the inclusion of Wii Points in the article. One attempt at "forum shopping" was a template that he created linking to the article, which I nominated for deletion and which was successfully deleted. He even has a page calculating who holds to which viewpoints. He made a mediation case recently, but selectively chose who participated in it and deleted someone else's comment because he didn't deem it "wise" to mention it, even though Neo Samus was involved in the discussion (as a matter of fact, so was I). I also see he has resorted to vandalism on at least one occassion. Drumpler 09:07, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I will not review this case. However, I have a couple of quick comments:

Certainly, if that's Wikipedia rules, then there's nothing I can argue, however, I have not found one rule in the dispute resolution process that allows such a thing and I can also see a potential for abuse here, as their "mock mediation" seems to relate both to the article itself and its content. I will continue to track the case, however, the vandalism noted above was posted on a user page, not the talk page itself, and was removed by another user. Drumpler 18:27, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) The "vandalism" diff above is not vandalism.
 * 2) It is permitted for users to seek mediation offline if that's what they want to do. Shalom Hello 15:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That was a simple mistake, and not on purpose. I think you can cut me some slack on that incident, since it is easy to confuse User pages and talk pages. LN3000 18:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, if it was an accident, then you certainly have my apologies. However, I do have legitimate concerns beyond that and do not even feel that is the focus. What I'm mostly concern with is why you feel you have the need to have an off-site mediation process (your's was rejected and you only included a selective handful of whom to include as is), what the purpose of the process is, what your intention for the process is and why the process can't be followed through on Wikipedia (as it seems to reflect article content). I'd also like to know why you deleted the comment off of Neo Samus' page informing him of the mediation case, even though he himself was involved in the discussion? I'd have preferred you followed the dispute resolution process if you had concerns with other editors, but that's entirely out of my hands. I'm not sure if you realize it, but you often come off on article talk pages with an "authoritative" and "argumentative" tone and it makes it hard for others to discuss with you. Drumpler 19:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've already explained myself. But I'll do it again. The mediation request was NOT mine. I deleted the comment off of Neo_Samus' page after talking to him about the issue, and he agreed that he should not get involved in the mediation until all the original people accepted. I was not the one to choose who to be involved in Mediation, or else I would have asked for people who had not previously denied mediation. My suggestion for mediation was open to everyone. The reason why I thought it'd be best to do a semi-offsite mediation was because obviously no other on-site method of resolving this has worked. I'm not sure if you realize it, but you seem to be coming off as a bully, with some weird agenda. Stop attacking me, as I have not done anything wrong. LN3000 19:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Where was this discussed with Neo Samus? Perhaps I missed the diff. Drumpler 19:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You didn't miss it, it's just not available to you because Neo_Samus emailed me in private. I'm sure if you ask him, he'll back me up on my claim.LN3000 19:33, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Lamename3000, Drumpler: this isn't an admin matter. Admins have no special concern with regard to mediation, onsite or otherwise. The cited "vandalism", if it was that, is old and trivial. The rest of your discussion does not belong on this page, so take it elsewhere. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I would take it elsewhere if only I knew where to take it. :) It has been my assumption that this is the correct place to take it, but since I'm assuming it isn't, I will cease posting on this page. Good day. Drumpler 20:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I just have one comment on this matter: Lamename made 2 user space pages (which Drumpler put speedy delete tags on, and they were deleted). Yet lamename wasn't warned about this. I would like to know why he wasn't warned. Both user space pages were clearly not acceptable. RobJ1981 22:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've already explained that, and it is not needed to keep trying to dig things up to get me into trouble. LN3000 22:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Wherebot suspicious bot behavior
User:Wherebot is a bot designed to search for possible copyright violations. It produced a Suspected copyright violations report for the The Humanoid Project page, which has since been tagged for speedy deletion. The suspected violation consists of links to www material used as reference. There is no copyrighted material on the Wikipedia page (and actually nothing with copyright notice in the linked material). --Rogerfgay 09:33, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The first sentence seems to come from this site. Od Mishehu 10:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed the db-copyvio tag. The question of whether or not it's a copyvio needs to be looked into - it's not blatant. Od Mishehu 10:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not a malfunctioning bot, Wherebot produces some false positives by nature. That's why it only reports, humans must do the actual tagging. It does seem like the first sentence of the article was a copy and paste. The entire "goals" section was lifted from . I'll remove that right now. --W.marsh 13:43, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Those amount to small quotes that are properly cited. It's unimaginable that such a thing would produce a copyright problem; or the entire practice of writing non-fiction would cease. Websites that allow posting of complete articles have dealt with this problem extensively. In response to the very few web publishers that objected, specific guidelines were set up by the courts for the amount of material that can be copy-pasted - republished without permission. I really don't see any chance at all that the material on the page could be a copyright violation; even if as you said elsewhere - the fact that there is no copyright notice on the source pages doesn't prove it's not copyrighted (although I don't think it's evidence that it is copyrighted either. --Rogerfgay 16:41, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * They weren't presented as quotes, but as core parts of the article's prose, such as the "goals" section (which was not cited). This is simply not acceptable... Wikipedia articles are not to be cobbled together prose copied directly from various copyrighted articles. --W.marsh 16:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, here we go. The article will remain as is - I mean after you've made the edits you prefer. I'm a writer with a lot of experience in non-fiction writing - not a bureacrat. I know that when "the facts" are being re-written to suit an argument, that I have better things to do. The goals were in fact cited. That's why it was so easy for you to find the source material. --Rogerfgay 16:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It was uncited when the tag was added, and it was still uncited when I removed the section. The presence of citation tags still doesn't make it okay to copy and paste, but they weren't even there as you claim. --W.marsh 16:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Would you stop accusing other people of bad faith? You accused everyone of bad faith when they patiently explained to you about our non-free content criteria, you accused me of bad faith when I merely enforced Wikipedia's rules . Read WP:AGF. Wikipedia IS NOT LIKE OTHER WEB PUBLISHERS. This is something you must understand. We have rules that are much stricter than other websites. That way we can proudly say we are the free encyclopedia with original freely licensable content. We do not accept copy/pastes from other websites. -N 23:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Attacks on editors on external sites?
has created a sort of "diss blog", if you will, insulting editors who disagree with him on Talk:Technocracy movement. It makes attacks on, , and. Here's his profile. Skip has been blocked twice already for incivility and making personal attacks, and he has been edit warring on Technocracy movement pretty much nonstop for months, regardless of how valid the claims of others are. Since he's showing pretty much every sign of tendentious editing, while doing little to improve the articles he works on, I'm considering an indefinite block, but I feel I need a separate opinion.--Wafulz 17:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I just took a quick glance, but it doesn't look pretty. If the user has made some positive contributions in the past, I would probably just go with a block that is longer than the last one issued with a stern warning that block lengths will increase if behaviour doesn't change.  If there are no positive contributions, just go straight to indef, but be prepared to deal with unblock templates to follow that. (Note that I can't past my firewall to the external sites, my comments are only based on the on-wiki activity.)  --After Midnight 0001 17:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The first two sentences on the blog are "We are a group of second and third rate thinkers that are trying to find our place in the world. Someone named Kolzene brainwashed us (he is a Wiccan) so now we promote some stuff he wrote." It just goes downhill from there. Since he not done anything but edit-war, I'm going with the indefinite block.-Wafulz 18:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The off-wiki stuff is somewhat unpleasant (though far from the worst that's out there), but I'm a little uncomfortable placing too much emphasis on it. After all, off-wiki conduct isn't subject to the same policies (WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL, etc) as on-wiki conduct. That said, I suppose it is worth noting as supporting evidence, and Skip's on-wiki conduct has been sorely lacking as well. Indefinite's a long time; I might go with a week, but I don't feel strongly as I think the chance of reform here is relatively low. MastCell Talk 18:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I (and other users) have repeatedly tried to calm him down, but he definitely has a bone to pick with some organizations/websites out there. He often goes out and removes content just because other editors have added it, such as this (which he labeled an original conclusion), but was quickly sourced once I reinserted it saying just a citation was enough. He'll also regularly go through and wholesale revert content over a series of consecutive edits regardless of relevance or discussion, and his usual reasons involve talking about how the people who inserted it are "just some bloggers" or something similar.Example 1 Example 2. It's gotten to the point the collective patience of myself and of other editors who are working to source and improve the article has been exhausted. He's just been unproductive in his two months here, and I don't see it improving at all.-Wafulz 18:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, now there's a new bit of data I missed. You should not personally perform the block, especially not indef, if you are involved in the dispute.  Is this the case?  If so, you need to convince another admin (or the community) to perform the block, or proceed to dispute resolution as if you were not an admin.  --After Midnight 0001 19:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not actually involved. I've been mediating for several weeks and trying to guide the users- I haven't actually contributed to the article except minor suggestions here and there. Anyway, I've reverted the block pending further discussion.-Wafulz 19:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I should clarify my comments above: I'm not against blocking him for a longer period of time, given his ongoing problems and lack of learning curve after the prior incidents. I did think indefinite was a little long, but that's just me. As to recusing yourself, I trust your judgement as to whether you are sufficiently disengaged to utilize the tools yourself. Perhaps others could chime in with their thoughts about the length of a block, if any? MastCell Talk 20:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I concur with MastCell. As far as block length, I figure that if you indef if will probably end up getting shortened later anyways, so I would do 1 week with a 0 tolerance policy after that, and make sure that they know that you will be watching when they return. --After Midnight 0001 21:01, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've set it for one week, with this warning.-Wafulz 22:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

User:71.252.64.50
I’m not sure how to report these sorts of things, so I apologize if this is the wrong venue, but someone should check out the edits from User:71.252.64.50. This users' edits border on everything from nonsense to racism to character assassination. User has been twice warned, but not blocked, and is still editing as of today.

Here are some diffs:              


 * In the future these types of problems should be reported to WP:AIV. If the vandalism continues this editors will be blocked. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 20:25, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Colintj
has made exactly one edit, which was accusing of being a sock puppet, citing an anonymous message on a blog as "proof". I've reverted the edit and given a stern warning, but this entire affair smells an awful lot like a sock account of a banned user. Valentinian T / C 18:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Btw, Colintj's edit doesn't show up on the contribs list. I guess the toolserver must be busy again. The edit was made to User:Crum375's user page, see the edit history there. Valentinian T / C 18:59, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The edit is there, you had a typo in your post. Thatcher131 20:39, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help, Thatcher131. I'm not a regular on this page. :) Valentinian T / C 21:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

the wild, wild west of wiki
[]

MaxPont has personally attacked me. My behaviour is not being disruptive. MaxPont is the one who is being disruptive. Read the comments. He is insulting me and attacking my integrity as an editor. He is telling everybody to ignore me. This is discussing. QuackGuru 19:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Sneaky deletion
Certain users have proposed a "merge" of Controversy in parapsychology into Parapsychology, but what they have described doing is completely deleting the content and creating a redirect. This is not a merge, it is back-door deletion. The controversy article has already undergone one failed AFD, and I feel that those disgruntled with the Keep are inappropriately trying to delete content they dislike by proposing this "merge", especially as they advocate for simply deleting a large portion of the controversy article not found elsewhere entirely. VanTucky 19:24, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Can they cite an applicable Criteria for sneaky deletion? --tjstrf talk 19:27, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I notice that Parapsychology is already 43kb long, and that it's section on controversy does not reach the same level of depth that the controversy article does. On length reasons I believe the split was appropriate. --tjstrf talk 19:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd appreciate a word to that affect on the Parapsychology talk page. Also, after I have brought up this circumvention of the deletion process, User:Nealparr has stated that he simply doesn't care if it's deleted outside the proscribed system for deletion. VanTucky 19:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

IP range vandalising user pages
This IP range 69.225.*.* has been constantly page blanking userpages and their talk pages for over a week now. I think this is getting out of hand. The range traces back to AT&T Internet services in California, this is from the WHOIS report PPPoX Pool - bras2#.skt2ca 69.225.48.0 - 69.225.63.255, here's another range 69.225.32.0 - 69.225.47.255. So I think the range is 69.225.32.0 to 69.225.63.255. Any ideas what should be done here? Momusufan 20:59, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That depends on the frequency and severity of attacks, really. If you can get me some links to some affected pages, contribs of some offending IPs, or contribs of some users who've been active cleaning up after this, I can see if there's a preferred method of response. There's really quite a few options; the more I (or anyone) knows, the better. You can post here, post to my talk page, or email me, if you like. – Luna Santin  (talk) 23:01, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You can find most of the IPs here since about 12 June. An effective range block would seem a little excessive, to me. -- zzuuzz (talk) 23:09, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, those are some big ranges. I've identified 69.225.48.0/20, 66.166.0.0/15, and 69.104.0.0/13, so far, in a guesstimated order of frequency. I've watchlisted common targets, and will sprotect as needed when this one crops up. Hopefully this can be put to rest. – Luna Santin  (talk) 23:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Those ranges (except the /20) are too large to block, so reverting seems the best option. Prodego  <sup style="color:darkgreen;">talk  00:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * They're all originating from the Modesto area. Page blanking and juvenile vandalism. Someone mentioned calling the NOC for AT&T and trying to trace them. I just do the RBI thing - A l is o n  ☺ 00:45, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I just received this IP address on my stats relating to bras#2.skt2ca ,STOCKTON CALIFORNIA, it's 69.225.26.162. The hit on this IP came as a result of an article that I posted and am monitoring for possible harassment.

Promotional account
appears to be doing promotional work for various Chicago-based journals (hence the name). He/she is creating various articles that are are really nothing more than brief adverts for the journals. Can anyone take a look? <b style="color:green;">IrishGuy</b> <sup style="color:blue;">talk 21:55, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Template:Modern North American Ford trucks
seems to be continually editing this template to remove information and make it unreadable. It doesn't necessarily fall under "obvious" vandalism, but it seems to be detrimental to the template. Looking at the recent history of the IP shows removal of information from similar templates over the past few days. There are also some cases from this IP of obvious vandalism. Moonside 23:07, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, it's escalated into blatant vandalism now. Going to continue to revert for this and the other pages he's editing. Moonside 23:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Doofus119
The User:Doofus119 is nothing but a BLP violation, created by a User who has no other edits to his credit. It has just been blanked by another User who used his/her first edit to blank the page, which is probably the right thing to do. Could somebody please delete this page? Corvus cornix 23:20, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see a BLP violation, but a CSD G10 candidate. — Kurykh  23:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Deleted the page. — Kurykh  23:24, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Corvus cornix 23:30, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

false and slanderous statements
4.224.213.253, Can someone stop this user from making false and slanderous statements about me on Wikipedia? Gperigo 02:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)gperigo
 * Not an admin, but showing diffs would help. But because I'm a nice guy, I'll do this for you;  -  Black Harry  (Highlights|Contribs) 03:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That IP wasn't the one who made the change, and it's been reverted by you anyway. You may also want to read our guidelines on conflict of interest --Steve (Stephen)talk 03:09, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

It appears that this IP has only been adding External link spam for about a month. I've undone everything I can and left a talk page message; can an admin please watch this account? Thanks, Sandy Georgia (Talk) 03:16, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * [ Special:Linksearch|target=www.youandyesterday.co.uk] is kind of interesting. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Some of those come from . Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 03:50, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The same two IPs are also adding another Wiki, [ Special:Linksearch|target=http://www.biggreenswitch.co.uk/]] -- Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 04:00, 28 June 2007 (UTC)