Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive321

If anyone has a moment
Can someone skim a second pair of eyes over this AfD, which (aside from degenerating into a farce of sockpuppetry) is starting to fill up with bizarre BLP violations and vague allegations of interference by the Cabal, all by the (almost)-SPA ? As I've already posted a fair amount to this AfD - and apparently am now part of the Cabal myself - it would probably be less likely to end in a reversion/block cycle if someone who hasn't commented did any necessary snipping.

Also, if I am now a member of the Cabal, I'd like to lodge my extreme displeasure that neither the groupies nor the secret Wikimedia gold bullion have turned up yet. — iride scent  01:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I've refactored the really egregious part and left a friendly message. Your cabal certificate and pin are in the mail, along with the key card to access the gold bullion stored at your local branch of the Federal Reserve.  Unfortunately, the groupies have been diverted for an important strategy session at the Pentagon and will not be available for several days.  --Haemo 01:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks... (The annoying thing about that AFD is that all the WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS arguments are quite right in his case.) — iride scent  01:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Please note that cabal membership entitles you to access to the Bar de l'Admin Rouge on production of a block log containing at least one user whose username indicates a crusader for The Truth&trade;. I see your block log qualifies you here. Guy (Help!) 09:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Interesting Discussion I do note that a fair portion content was removed prior to the the edit by Farstriker @ 1900 on the 2/11 it was this diff by Farstriker at 0100 on the 2/11.but was restored two minutes later here and his comment was removed in the reversal process in error. Gnangarra 10:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Rkowalke insists on exposing personal details of fellow editor
User:Rkowalke is a WP:SPA that graduated from Warren National University (WNU) and now edits primarily just that article and the talk page. He has exhibited what I would characterize as an edit pattern of trying to minimize any negative information about WNU. He exhibits severe violations of WP:AGF frequently bordering on violations of WP:NPA against any editor that adds information critical of WNU to the article. He has talked about revealing what he believes is my personal name despite my protest and requests that he discuss the article and not discuss his fellow editors,, , and. His editing pattern includes blatant plagiarism at which point he showed zero remorse but instead denied that copying information from the WNU website and including it without quotes or reference was plagiarism because this was for the WNU article and he wasn't claiming that he wrote it. Talk:Warren_National_University/Archive_2 He has been banned for violating WP:3RR. Since his block for 3RR his edit warring has gotten much better but he has probably become even less civil. For example, he recently has insisted on posting the city location for an anon account that added an edit that he didn't like. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. TallMagic 03:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with TallMagic that posting the city location is highly improper, as it is clear from other contributions by this IP under what user name this IP used to edit. --Paul Pieniezny 03:34, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well I've deleted it five times and Rkowalke has added it in six times. He says that I am badgering him and I must produce Wikipedia policy showing that it is inappropriate or this will go on forever. Is there some explicit guideline wording that I can reference? Thanks, TallMagic 15:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That would be WP:PRIVACY, in particular the last sentence. Sheffield Steel talkstalk 17:49, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much to both SheffieldSteel and Paul, you both help make Wikipedia a friendly and professional place. Regards, TallMagic 19:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * More importantly, it is considered a violation of WP:NPA policy. The user is singling out an individual(s) and posting personal information which has been proven to be a big no no by the arb committee. --Anon user FNA I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.0.204.13 (talk) 22:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Rkowalke has responded. While the response was refreshingly delightful because it was civil, I don't consider it positive, otherwise. TallMagic 00:25, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I tried to put an end to the problem by deleting the entire 6-kB series of comments (about the IP user's location and whether or not it was OK to post this information) from Talk:Warren National University, on the premise that the comments were not about editing the article. In the edit that TallMagic highlighted in the comment above this one, Rkowalke (this is the same Rkowalke who deletes the welcome messages, warnings, and other comments posted on his User talk page, leaving edit summaries like "Stay off my page Orlady - you're harrassing me and I don't like it") restored the entire block of deleted material with a note saying "Suggest archival - not removal". I find that it is getting increasingly difficult to abide by the admonition WP:NOFEEDING. --Orlady 04:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

User:AS 001
I ask that someone look over the contributions for User:AS 001, who does not seem to be here for the purpooses of building the encyclopedia. All of the edits from this account have been either criticizing admins or opposing the nominations for adminbots. Community input requested. RyanGerbil10 (C-Town) 23:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Judging by this diff, I think may be the person to ask. Viridae Talk  23:35, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You mean, right? -Jéské ( Blah v^_^v ) 23:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Bah, I screwed that up twice. Viridae Talk 23:42, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * And based on this diff, he would appear to be a sock of banned user . He was also created 47 minutes after Bill's indef block. Someguy1221 23:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol I wondered why there was a banned and sock template. Viridae Talk 23:43, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * User:Bill Ayer claimed to be airline CEO Bill Ayer, and as I recall, was told he could create a new account as a privacy issue. However, he created two accounts and . The first was to avoid a block the the Bill Ayer account, and the second to avoid a block on the AS 001 account. The contribs do make him look a bit sockish. - auburn pilot   talk  14:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've reblocked AS 001 indefinitely as a disruptive single-purpose account. On reviewing 's contributions, he doesn't seem new, either. I do not see any reason to think this user is making a good-faith encyclopedia-building effort. Comments welcome. Picaroon (t) 23:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

They're socks of banned user. Picaroon (t) 02:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

This is just a bunch of admin who have nothing better to do. Where's the disruption, the reason for blocking? —Preceding unsigned comment added by AS 003 (talk • contribs) 19:13, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Now, User:AS 003 has appeared, been blocked and appealed his block. I've reviewed and declined the unblock request.  AK Radecki Speaketh  19:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Uncivil behaviour
I am being targeted with uncivil behaviour from Cyrus XIII.

I added templates to the Dir en grey article, as I feel the article needs minor adjustments to meet the Wikipedia guidelines.

Cyrus XIII has continued to vandalise my posts, which were meant to improve the article. The Dir en grey article has original research, misinterpreted citations, and is becoming a news release for the topic. The lead paragraph in-particular has a misinterpreted citation.

I requested the use of the talk page, and had to give a friendly warning to Cyrus XIII on his/her talk page, after they called my contribution "crap" and made ill-considered accusations.

I warned this user again, because they have since repeatedly made ill-considered accusations; by modifying my signature to make it seem like I am a different editor. I have asked Cyrus XIII to stop their uncivil behaviour, and directed them to various Wikipedia policies. This user has since vandalised the same article, and seems to want to cause an edit war.

I request that an admin please intervene, by imposing minor disciplinary action on Cyrus XIII if necessary, and to investigate my claims to improve the Dir en grey article to meet Wikipedia guidelines. Information can be found at [| Dir en grey talk page] at the heading Unencyclopedic content. There are also warnings on Cyrus XIII's talk page. Update: This sentence in-particular "and are among the Japanese musicians who have enjoyed notable success in Europe and North America." in the lead paragraph; is unnecessary, and its references say nothing of the sort. 122.49.135.245 04:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello, 122.49.135.245. From the Dir en grey talk page, it seems that Cyrus XIII believes you are a user repeatedly blocked for three-revert rule violations and ban evasion through editing anonymously. What truth is there to that belief? Thanks, William Pietri 04:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict)A quick review of the article in question and the edit patterns of the involved parties shows that this anonymous editor is most likely an IP sock of . --Kralizec! (talk) 04:53, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

William Pietri, occasionally when I visit the Wikipedia, there will be a new message waiting. Mostly it is about a dispute I have no knowledge about, and in rare cases, I am even blocked from editing. In fact, I remember the first time I went to edit an article, my IP was blocked. That was early last year. Cyrus XIII was politely informed about making ill-considered accusations, as I don't appreciate being called a fraud, nor do I like my contributions being disregarded as "crap"

I also don't appreciate your post Kralizec, as you're making assumptions and assuming bad faith. 122.49.135.245 05:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

None of my contributions were disruptive, and I tried to improve the article to meet the Wikipedia guidelines, and for people visiting the article. 122.49.135.245 05:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok. So just to be sure, you are not Jun kaneko? If you are not, then you should go create an account, so that you are not mistaken for other people. Once you've done that, go to the talk page of the article in question and start fresh by politely suggesting one modest change. Once your fellow editors have reached consensus, then feel free to make the change. I'm sure it's upsetting to be mistaken for someone else, but Cyrus XIII has clearly had to deal with someone who has been very disruptive, so you should treat his very reasonable misunderstanding with sympathy, not with requests for punishment. Thanks, William Pietri 05:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I actually did not request for punishment, I requested that an admin look into my claims about the article, and carry out a "minor disciplinary action on Cyrus XIII if necessary"

The section "2007: The Marrow of a Bone" is becoming like a new release section.

The section "Style and subject matter" contains much original research.

The lead paragraph also contains original research, as well as sentences that are Unencyclopedic, as well as misinterpreted citations.

After recent disruptions, I feel the aid of an admin is the only way to correct the article if needed.

Mostly I only view the Wikipedia, I rarely edit articles. Mostly only to make it more encyclopedic, but I guess creating an account is a solid idea. 122.49.135.245 05:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Evidence strongly suports that this is, based on historical editing patterns in the various articles involved, and on the his reactions today to the reverting by two editors of the inappropriate templates he added to two articles. His post here at AN/I shows that he is learning how to WP:GAME the system, however, his multiple reverts on Dir en gray and Visual kei today along with his typical harrassing warnings on my page and Cyrus' page today, show his identity.


 * In addition to the IP listed above, he edited today using: . This can be seen in the Visual kei revision history for today, here and here.


 * He also posted today on my talk page, accusing me of Wikistalking for reverting his changes, and he also placed warnings on Cyrus' talk page. These are actions he has done in the past, such as a month ago when he posted approximately 15 messages on my talk page from two of the IPs listed below, after I requested semi-protection of the page he was IP-vandalizing.


 * With at least two of the other IP's he's used, he signed his user name, in IP edits: here and here.


 * He has edited using these IPs in addition to the two listed above:




 * Also please note:


 * prior 3RR report resulting in blocks for user and IP


 * prior block-evasion report an AN/I


 * prior request for semi-protection due to IP edit warring


 * I hope that provides enough information. I understand the need to assume that an IP user from a dynamic IP range may not be the same as another person who has used that IP.  But in this case, it would be a huge coincidence and very unlikely, that an unrelated user would immediately take up the same patterns of harassment and edit warring previously shown by another editor known to use the same IP range.   This user has caused a lot of hassles for several articles and at least three editors, over a period of months.    --Parsifal Hello 05:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you explain the type of harassment I am committing? My warnings were fare considering your actions, and the refusal to use the talk page.

How trying to improve the article, to be encyclopedic, and remove original research; disruptive?

It seems you have an issue with someone else, and are reverting my posts to be vendictiv, and/or protecting information on the page for personal reasons. 122.49.135.245 06:11, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * To explain, if you have previously been banned from Wikipedia (which is different from blocking), then you can't edit at all, regardless of how good your edits are. JuJube 06:12, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

As mentioned, I mostly just view articles. If there is something wrong with it, I try to fix it. (such as removing original research)

I have never even been blocked, and I'm quite disappointed in regards to how this simple matter is being handled. After reading the Dir en grey article, there were problems with it. That article linked me to the Visual Kei. Reading that article I found it became very repetitive, so I placed a template up informing people about that.

Parsifal removed the templates from the Dir en grey article, citing "vandalism" and then removed the templates from Visual Kei article, citing "vandalism"

How is that vandalism? read the Visual Kei article, it repeats itself, and the problems in the Dir en grey are evident. It seems these users have other motives for their edits. 122.49.135.245 06:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I would like someone to read the Visual Kei article, and notice how repetitive it is. Then check the history log, and notice Cyrus XIII's entry. Update: afterwards, please read the history log for Dir en grey and take note of their entry's. These two users seem to be quite disruptive with their edits, and appear to have other motives for their edits (as the templates are clearly evident to the articles) 122.49.135.245 06:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment. I am not going to argue with this user. He filed his report here about Cyrus, not about me. He didn't even mention my name in his report. After I provided evidence to help administrators here decide how to handle the situation, now he's complaining about me - what a surprise. And for someone who claims not to edit Wikipedia much, he knows a lot of abbreviations and policy terms, and how to find this noticeboard. I didn't even use the word "vandalism" in my edit summaries, I used the abbreviation: "RVV (IP - SPA))", because I recognized his behavior from the prior incidents. As far as I can see in the revision history, Cyrus also didn't use the word "vandalism" either.  So, how did this inexperienced IP user know the meaning of RVV?

Suggestion. It seems to me, semi-protection of Dir en gray and Visual kei for a month or so would be helpful. --Parsifal Hello 08:05, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

My comments are directed at the admin's for assistance in cleaning up these articles, because it was obvious that it was the only way to get the situation solved.

I was hardly "complaining" about you, and to be frank, your contributions appear to have a different purpose. A question, how exactly am I inexperienced? Saguy1982 20:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clarifying that you were not complaining about me. Now that you have an account, I will view your actions from here on with an open mind.  I would be pleased to discover that you are not the same person we've been discussing, who caused so many problems.  (Even if you are the same person, if you have now decided to change your ways and start over with an approach respectful of other editors, and without edit warring, that would be OK too, however unlikely that may be.)


 * Regarding my comment referring to you as an "inexperienced IP user", that was not intended as an insult and was based only on your statement above that you mostly view articles and don't edit them.


 * I'm willing to start with a clean slate with regard to your new user name and interact with you based on your current actions. Over time, if the old patterns re-emerge, that will be apparent.


 * Regarding the edits to the articles, I will not be much involved with those. Cyrus is knowledgeable on those topics and has been working on those articles along with a few others.  My purpose there has been to help stop edit-warring and to vet references, at the request of some of the article editors who were seeking an uninvolved third party.  I will still watch the articles for edit-warring, but I will mostly leave the content discussions to you and the others who are better informed on those topics. --Parsifal Hello 21:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * (PS. When you respond to comments on talk pages, please use colons : to indent your replies, so we can see the threading of the conversation, as I have done with my reply to you above).  --Parsifal Hello 21:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Follow-up. Ok, so now I've reviewed some of your edits, and while this will progress to a content dispute not specifically related to the AN/I report, I am entering this here "for the record".  You need to review the Wikipedia policies WP:Verifiable and WP:Original research.  In this diff of your edit to Dir en gray, you used this edit summary:


 * (Minor article fixes. Original research and nencyclopedic content removed. Two sections still need work. Note on talk page)


 * However, your edit removed three completely solid reliable sources that support the content of the text you removed. For example you removed this text from the section about their tour success: " Again, all shows sold out within days.''", and you removed the Wired magazine news article footnote that clearly stated in detail how fast the shows sold out.


 * You removed this phrase from the intro of the article:


 * "As of 2007, they have released six full-length records."


 * Then, on the talk page you described that as "Unencyclopedic. That statement was directly supported by two reliable source references that you also removed, which is inappropriate.  And what exactly is unencyclopedic about stating how many albums they've released?


 * To say the least, this is not a good start for your new account. You've removed reliable references that directly support content of the article text and then changed the text to remove the information supported by the references.


 * Your various other talk page complaints about the article are too complex for me to go into here. A few of your edits seem like they may be OK. But the removal of valid, reliable source references and the text they support, is a bad start, so please don't continue down that path.


 * If you think the references do not support what the text shows, then quote the reference on the talk page and show the editors there how you see the reference being misinterpreted. I've read those references myself and they seem correct.  There is no reason to remove them.  If you want to debate about that, do so on the talk page; but please do not remove sources without discussion.


 * I suggest you read and follow WP:CONSENSUS and Bold, revert, discuss. --Parsifal Hello 22:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe Parsifal has helped improved the article, and that this situation is pretty much resolved. As discussions are taking place on the articles talk page, which were refused before, apart from Cyrus XIII's rather abruptly rude comment. As I don't have much knowledge on the subject, I think its best for those that do, fix the issues remaining, either by reworking or providing references. Saguy1982 23:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

administrator attention needed, please
[posting this sub-section here, because it follows on to the comments just above - the next subsection below was posted prior to this subsection --Parsifal Hello 00:08, 5 November 2007 (UTC) ]

Administrators, I know you are overloaded on this page, and this is a complicated report, but this needs your attention. As of now, I am disengaging, other than adding this sub-section to request that someone please review this situation.

The new account, has already shown the same disruptive edit-warring and uncivil user-attacking as , per the discussion in this report.


 * The comment from Saguy1982 immediately above is not what he first wrote.  He changed that comment after reading my comments on the talk page, and rethinking the fact that he had shown his true identity by impulsive actions I will explain here.


 * His comment above is also simply false. The situation is not resolved.  I do not believe he considers that I improved the article.  He removed the sources I restored at least twice and has argued about it on the talk page.


 * I went out of my way to show good faith when Saguy1982 created his new account. But his first edits were to remove solid reliable sources, that I had personally vetted by reading them.   I reported that here, and then I did NOT revert all his changes, I only restored the references he had removed with related text I had personally confirmed was supported by the references.  I added a note on the talk page, explaining my actions.


 * His response was to post a vandalism warning on my talk page.


 * This is exactly the same behavior as has always done.


 * He also replied on this page (above) and called my good-faith edit vandalism. He used an IP to post that note, and to place the vandalism warning on my page while logged out.  Then he logged in and added his signature to the vandalism warning.   Then after he saw my report here, he changed his mind and erased the vandalism warning from my page.


 * He then continued his edit war and deleted the same reliable reference from the article a third time. How reliable is that reference?  It's a report specifically about the topic, from the association that produces the Grammy awards!

Now, this new account has shown his true colors, he has shown that he is the same user that's been edit warring on this article all along. I really tried to accept his new approach with good faith, but we see the result. I don't listen to this band or this kind of music, and generally, I don't edit this kind of music article. I'm there because I was invited months ago, to help stop the edit-warring with consensus from an outside editor.

Saguy1982 has shown himself as a sockpuppet of Jun kaneko, based on showing identical edit-warring and uncivil user-warning, within his first few edits. It's very unlikely that's not the case, because he knew in advance what the problems were with Jun kaneko, from this report that goes into all of it in detail, yet he couldn't stop himself from doing the same behaviors again, multiple times.

What should be done? What's the usual response to this list of offenses: Extended-multiple-instances of IP- and user-account sockpuppetry, edit-warring, harrassment, and vandalism... ?

In addition to any actions on those accounts, Dir en gray and Visual kei should be semi-protected for one month as a cool-down period. Other articles may become targets after that, if they do, the same solution should be applied.

As I said in my initial comment here, he is learning to WP:GAME the system. Cyrus concurred about this in his comment below. While Saguy1982 has replied to my post on the article talk page, pretending politeness (right after posting a vandalism warning on my talk page), he has not addressed the actual concerns and he has specifically avoided my invitations to form consensus or to provide examples of the way in which the sources he removed don't fit. He's dodging the issues and trying to make up for his lapse in posting that vandalism notice and comment.

I can't continue working on this without backup. If there is no admin who is willing to look into this and either take action now, or issue some unambiguous warnings to this user (and follow up later to make sure they are abided), there's nothing more I can do, and I will withdraw from editing the articles or trying to save them from damage.

I should withdraw anyway, because he's harrassed me in the past and I don't want anything further to do with him.

So I guess at this point what I'm saying is - either someone monitoring this board will take this up as a project, or, this disruptive user will continue to disrupt. If an admin here does take up this project and has any questions, I'm happy to help if I can.

Thank you. --Parsifal Hello 00:08, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

repeated request for a reply from an administator
Hello - would someone please reply?

If this report is too complicated, or if it's in the wrong place, please at least offer me the simple courtesy of an explanation.

I'm a long-time productive good-faith editor, and so is Cyrus, who also provided information in this report. I don't go to the trouble of providing detailed evidence without good reason.

Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe I formatted my request in a way that is not helpful for you. Ok, fine, so tell me what the problem is.

But complete silence, on a report where two established editors have alerted you to disruption by a known mutliple-blocked edit-warring vandal, and a likely IP sockpuppet...

what's up with that?

Would you rather that we simply ignore the disruption and move on to other articles?

I did not do this work to benefit myself, I'm trying to help Wikipedia. Does Wikipedia not want my help? Or is this noticeboard too overloaded and the system in need of some new procedures?


 * At this point, all I'm asking for is for someone to acknowledge this report, please.

--Parsifal Hello 08:05, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

continued... comment/evidence added prior to above thread
I should probably comment here as well: First of all, I have to agree with Kralizec! and Parsifal, that the editing patterns and IP ranges (122.49.*.*/219.90.*.*) match way too closely, to leave any genuine scope for a "wrong guy" scenario. That being said, it is true that I have dismissed the latest edits by to the Dir en grey article and talk page as "crap", owing to the fact, that when it comes to this character, my ability to assume good faith has long since fallen through.

It has been about three months now, since this alleged 40-year-old with "almost 20 years experience within the Japanese music scene" started to edit war his way through several articles (the ones I am aware of being Skin (Japanese band), Visual kei and more recently Free-Will and Dir en grey). His conduct is characterized by a general disregard of consensus, a highly rude and dismissive attitude of anyone who disagrees with his opinions and a penchant for making threats of "reporting" someone or wrongfully claiming to have done so (and by now, as we can all see here, actually doing it). He has violated the 3RR at least six times and was subsequently blocked on several occasions, included aforementioned case of block evasion, were he acknowledged his identity while operating under an IP.

Below, you will find a more extensive IP list, that was compiled by browsing through the histories of several of the aforementioned articles and some related talk pages. It is divided into IPs used before the Jun kaneko account was registered, as well as those used after it was abandoned and contains additional links to illustrate the events I have outlined in the previous paragraph.

It might not be elegant to state the following in a venue where my own conduct was called into question in the first place, but as Parsifal pointed out, Jun kaneko already knows a great deal about our ways, policies and procedures and still shows virtually no inclination to contribute to this project in a respectful and collaborative fashion. Hence I'm going to be as straightforward here as I can and suggest to block the guy for good, before he gets too proficient at gaming the system and evolves from a blunt, edit warring nuisance into a seasoned, opinion-pushing WikiLawyer.

- Cyrus XIII 15:01, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure one of the most used internet providers in South Australia has only a few users! Excuse my sarcasm.

You are ignoring the issue, this report was about cleaning up the articles. None of my contributions were disruptive, and unlike yourself, I have been civil in my discussions.

Your accusations are mind blowing, ignoring the fact that you persist that I am someone else (who appears to still have the right to edit) You seem to be excluding other people from editing, by mentioning the Wikipedia policies as "our ways". The Wikipedia is an open community for everyone. Saguy1982 20:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and fix the article myself, placing reasons in the talk page for each edit. I request an admin have a look, and comment on the changes. Saguy1982 20:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Without prejudice to User:Jun kaneko and User:Saguy1982, there may be a simple solution to this - request checkuser. Having dealt with a similar case myself I understand that some editors reading this will be baffled by the sheer volume of work that has to be done to show edit patterns across multiple IPs and registered accounts that may belong to one user.  In this case go to checkuser and look for a code B or code F - ban/block evasion.  And use diffs to illustrate any edit pattern that is found--Cailil   talk 00:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

new WP:AN report filed by the same disruptive user
The highly disruptive user who started this report has been continuing to cause trouble, edit-war repeatedly, and post personal attacks. Now, he has filed a new report:

on WP:AN here.

I'm linking that here for reference. --Parsifal Hello 00:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * PS... the report from WP:AN has now been moved to this WP:AN/I page, here. --Parsifal Hello 01:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Stalking
After a dispute regarding Tokelau Alice.S has followed me onto several other pages, attempting to start edit wars with me. She reverted my first edit to the page on Oct. 29. She then followed me onto the Frank Gaffney article where she attempted to start a fight with me and again here. She left this highly uncivil comment on my talkpage. She appears to have violated WP:OWN, WP:STALK, and WP:CIVIL. I'm not looking for a block. I'm looking for someone to notify her she's in the wrong. Perspicacite 05:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I personally don't see that as uncivil at all, let alone "highly uncivil". At first glance, she's correct about the MOS issues; if you disagree you should discuss it with her either on the article talk page (which you haven't touched yet) or on your talk page (where she came to sort things out). As to the rest, turning up on one page does not a stalking make, and IMHO, it's a weak start to a claim of sockpuppeting. Note also that right at the top of the page it says that "this is not the Wikipedia complaints department". As it says in bold, "Before posting a grievance about a user here, it is advised that you take it up with them on their user talk page." You should try that first, and then proceed to dispute resolution if that doesn't work. Thanks, William Pietri 06:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Virtually none of what you just said is correct. I did post on the talkpage. I already dealt with the MoS issue. She did not come to my talkpage to "sort things out." Nowhere in the above post do I accuse her of sockpuppeting. Did you not read what I posted? I also already posted on her talkpage, contrary to your statement. Thanks for your... input but I'd like another opinion. Perspicacite 06:45, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll take those in order. You posted on the talk page of Tokelau only after making this complaint, and after my comment above. I'm glad you've dealt with the MoS issue; that suggests we are in agreement: the main thrust of her comment on your talk page was correct. From her behavior, I believe she did contact you on your talk page with the intention of resolving the dispute, but only she can really know that. Earlier on this page, you suggest an RFCU may be in order, which seemed to imply a sock-puppet allegation. Your comment on her talk page was only ten minutes before posting this; I still had your contribution history open from the discussion earlier on this page. Sorry for the error. However, that comment was only to menace her with coming here, so it's hardly the discussion of the disputed edits I was suggesting. As to the other opinion, I'm sure you'll get it, as I'm off to bed. And you're welcome for my... input. Any time. William Pietri 06:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well done except that once again, you're wrong. The MoS issue was taken care of before any of your posts on this issue. The RFCU was clearly directed at the other user, not her, and nowhere is an RFCU mentioned in this post. Again, thanks for the 'input'. Perspicacite 07:13, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Relax, Perspicacite. I never suggested that the MOS issue wasn't taken care of, and I'm glad you did the right thing. Next time, feel free to mention that right out rather than hoping people find it in your edits. I brought it up because you were asking for her to be told that she was wrong, when it seemed like the main thrust of her concern was in fact right. That would also make it a concern worth answering politely, and not deleting. To my eyes, the RFCU comment was directed at both of them, coming, as it did, directly after a threat to get the two of them blocked. Sorry if I got that wrong. That it was not in this post is immaterial; admins are supposed to look at the whole issue when getting involved in something.
 * That out of the way, I'll remind you again that the way to get editorial disputes resolved is through dispute resolution. This is mainly a place to handle urgent issues requiring admin powers, not small issues of content and behavior. That road begins with civil discussion, something I'd encourage you to try more of. If that doesn't resolve the issue, then feel free to open an RfC]. Hoping that helps, [[User:William Pietri|William Pietri 16:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

On a point of information: (I am very new to WP so please chastise me if this is out of order). Is it permissible for Perspicacite to type uncorrected untruths?

He typed: "After a dispute regarding Tokelau Alice.S has followed me onto several other pages, attempting to start edit wars with me."

As far as I know I have not edited any other article page whatever that Perspicacite has also edited! (I did raise a question as to correct categorisation at the Discussion page of our article on Frank Gaffney but this was not particularly directed at Perspicacite until he chose to draw attention to himself there by personalising things again).

Am I entitled to insist that these untruths are withdrawn?

I have no wish to start any war with anyone and my peace offer has already been rejected out of hand: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AAlice.S&diff=169113629&oldid=169105522

What exactly is a "RFCU"? Alice.S 10:15, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. RFCU is a Request for Check User to see if one user might be a sockpuppet of another. -- Kateshort forbob  10:49, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Alice.S's last statement is pretty much a blatant lie. She followed me to Frank Gaffney, here, and Economy of Australia. Since she continued to stalk after being warned she is up for a block. Perspicacite 11:02, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me?!

1) I have never edited Frank Gaffney. If you wish to maintain otherwise, please provide the diff.

2) Are you really saying that I am unable to defend myself here? - it was you that rejected my peace offer. If I get e-mails from several users that you have also rubbed up the wrong way (by your uncollegiate and ignorant reverts) alerting me to this page, are you really saying that I should not draw editors' and administrators' attention to your habit of blanking questions/ comments/ your page rather than entering into constructive dialogue?

3) My contributions to Economy of Australia were after your untrue statements - not before - just check the timestamps.

4) Unless someone points me to some policy I am aware of, how does it constitute harassment of you to make the corrections I did at Economy of Australia: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Economy_of_Australia&diff=169128603&oldid=169092129 ? (If it was indeed yourself that perpetrated these howlers then I see no need to apologise for correcting them. This is an encyclopedia). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alice.S (talk • contribs) 11:23, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt and helpful explanation, forbob. I presume that he must really mean WP:RFC/U since not even he can be peddling that hoary old stereotype about all Asian women being dolls or puppets! Alice.S 11:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This above post clearly merits a 24 hour block for incivility. A longer block for stalking is also merited based on her stalking me onto the Frank Gaffney page, WP:AN/I,. Perspicacite 12:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You should probably be careful here, Perspicacite. It is YOU that is in the wrong here, not Alice. I would encourage you to file an RfC on this, and see how it goes. You'll see very quickly where you have gone wrong, and that Alice has violated no policies in her actions regarding you. K. Scott Bailey 14:02, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The worst thing I can see in Alice's contributions is performing a revert that changed some Commonwealth English spellings to American English on Tokelau. Hardly block-worthy stuff. Sheffield Steel talkstalk 14:45, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

If I did do that I am very sorry for my sloppiness. (I thought I had actually changed US spellings to Commonwealth spellings to keep the article spelling consistent and because the article topic had a strong national link (per WP:ENGVAR).

I think the basic point I would stress here is one made by User:Jimbo Wales recently: "I am running out of patience for incivility at Wikipedia,... Some people simply should not be contributing to an encyclopedia.... and note that all editors should always endeavor to treat each other with kindness, or else find another hobby. When we put up with this kind of behavior, we enable a hostile environment that drives away good people. We should be gentle, but firm: this kind of behavior is not allowed at Wikipedia." --Jimbo Wales 21:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

If I have indeed been guilty of incivility towards User:Perspicacite (or anyone else) I most contritely apologise and genuinely promise to strive for higher standards in future.

Thank you everyone for your input.

PS: Will I be alerted automatically to where I can read my "RfC" ? Alice.S 20:59, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Deliberate unreversible move with creating artificial history by user:Martintg
has moved the Estonian pirates into Estonian viking expeditions amidst the WP:RM discussion that did not seem to go his way.

To make a move irreversible, he made a three-step move: I hereby request the deletion of the redirect with the artificial history so that the article could be moved back and the proper discussion is allowed to ensue. Such action is specifically prescribed by ArbCom in cases like this.
 * 1) he moves the page first
 * 2) then blanks the page
 * 3) and then restored the redirect, thus creating a redirect with an artificial history, a dirty trick known as AndriyK's trick by a user who invented it.

In addition, please warn in no unclear terms to stop such repeated disruption. --Irpen 19:18, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, I see a pretty strong consensus for the move. A bit sloppy, true (fixing that now), but consensus non the less. — Edokter  •  Talk  • 20:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * For future reference, if you see a page move issue, you can simply post it at the Cut and paste move repair holding pen, where an admin will fix the issues. With content disputes, or page move disputes, those should be worked out on the article talk page, of course, but for the move history issues, the WP:SPLICE page is a good place to start. Cheers! Ariel ♥ Gold 20:11, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:SPLICE is for cut and paste move fixing and history merges, to request a page be moved over a page with a history, WP:RM is the place to ask. Mr.  Z- man  20:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The WP:RM is ongoing! Don't you see? And in the middle of WP:RM the user moves the article and salts the earth. --Irpen 20:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Calm down, I'm just pointing out that WP:RM is the place to request repair of things like this, not WP:SPLICE. Mr.  Z- man  20:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * To second what Irpen was saying, the WP:RM just got going, no consensus is being formed, the result of no-consensus is the status quo, not the change. Additionally, along with interrupting the opinion forming, Martinq was performing the move by several steps, all designed not to be a cut-n-paste, but rather commensurate with techniques previously ruled against by ArbCom.  Further, the RM itself is being conducted without a great deal of insight -- but that part, at least, is a content issue.  Geogre 20:26, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I've un-scorched it by deleting all but the last revision. Redirect scorching is a dirty trick and inherently disruptive. I've repeatedly gone on record threatening blocks for people who use it intentionally in move wars. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, this was obviously an intentional trick to freeze the move. Oh, and could you also un-scorch this too? --Irpen 20:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Intentional or not, the talk page showed pretty much consensus over the new title, even more so because they couldn't agree between Estonian pirates and Estonian vikings. Should I move it back? — Edokter  •  Talk  • 22:15, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Nobody had the courtesy of informing me of this incident report so I can atleast have my say. Sorry I made a bit of a hash of the move, I couldn't decide between the different capitalisations of the title and messed things up a bit. The move itself was most certainly done in good faith, I was the one who followed process and initiated the move debate to begin with, there was very extensive discussions, many alternative names were discussed and a compromise title "Estonian Viking expeditions" was found that was acceptable to all involved in the discussion here Talk:Estonian_pirates. Thus having found a compromise, I believed I did the correct thing to close the debate and move the article. Irpen was never a party to the debate, so I am somewhat puzzled at his late involvement after the apparent resolution of the debate, as well as post-debate inputs from Irpen's collegues Alex Bakharev and Paul Pieniezny after notification via this incident report here on WP:ANI, but who were never a part of the debate despite the fact that it was posted on WP:RM to canvass wider views. The whole thing is all rather odd. Looking at the time line: --Martintg 11:11, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 18:54, 4 November 2007 - Apparent concensus achieved.
 * 19:05, 4 November 2007 - page moved according to concensus
 * 19:18, 4 November 2007 - Irpen posts incident on WP:ANI, claiming WP:RM is still ongoing
 * 19:21, 4 November 2007 - Berig confirms agreement with new title
 * 00:08, 5 November 2007 - Alex Bakharev moves the page back, claiming WP:RM is ongoing
 * 00:12, 5 November 2007 - Alex Bakharev casts his vote, agreeing to move.
 * 01:30, 5 November 2007 - Paul Pieniezny casts his vote after admitting he only became aware of the RM debate after reading this ANI and attempts to restart the debate, with apparent ignorance of the previous debate having moved beyond the initial title proposal.
 * Oh great... another truckload of double redirects to clean up. I'm going to delete them all now to make way for a future move. If it's one thing I hate, it is the mess being left behind in move wars. — Edokter  •  Talk  • 11:18, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for cleaning up the mess. I guess that is why the bucket and mop is the admin's icon :o). Martintg 11:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * As everybody can clearly see, I voted against (so where is the consensus?) before this thing was closed at WP:RM. That one faction has worn Berig out, does not a consensus make: the argument also ran here. Note that my argument (the most recent book called "Estonian Vikings" talks about something completely different, so this title is ambiguous) is not taken into account. Martintg must have noticed this book, as he had obviously checked Google Books. As for the mess left behind in move wars, that was Martintg's doing: he is now being rewarded for it. --Paul Pieniezny 12:34, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I suggest, instead of buying what Martin is saying about just "messing up the capitalization, but acting in good faith, to please take a look at the thread's start. Martin's post conveniently omits that he not just moved the page claiming the consensus but deliberately scorched the old redirect by blanking and restoring it after the move creating an artificial history. I repeat, he did not "correct" the original redirect to reflect the upper case second move, but blanked and restored it. Period. The mess with cAsEs followed later. Please red the thread at top. You would need to be an admin to see the deleted parts of the redirects history though. If he felt there was a consensus, he won't need to employ move tricks. Besides, there was nothing like a consensus in the first place and, most importantly, the devil is in details: the trick employed in the move, not even the move itself. --Irpen 14:57, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Irpen, please stop this. It is plainly obvious that Martintg acted in good faith. I am totally uninvolved in the discussion - because, quite frankly, I don't care what the article is called - but reading through the move thread at least I had an impression that consensus to rename the article was reached. Oh, and can I remind you of another user doing exactly same as Martintg recently - moving a page and salting the original article - all that knowingly and without any consensus whatsoever. And he got justly blocked. Strangely you fled instantly to his help, leaving no stone unturned until he was unblocked. Double standards? -- Sander Säde  16:55, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Interesting reply. You cannot see what Martintg has done wrong, but he did something that someone else got rightly blocked for. And no, consensus has not been reached: one of the people who voted for the new name is now backing my opinion that the name is ambiguous:. --Paul Pieniezny 17:26, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The difference is that Martintg thought that the consensus was reached, acted in good faith and "salted" unknowingly. The other user - much, much more experienced - did not participate in discussion, just moved a highly controversial page and deliberately salted the redirect. See the difference in their actions? -- Sander Säde  17:39, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Salting "unknowingly" and "in good faith"? Well, help me understand how and why he blanked and restored the redirect "unknowingly". I can see the cAse correction as a possibility of the good-faithed salting but not blanking and restoring the original redirect. Look at the top post of this thread again! You cannot see diffs if you are not an admin but Martin knows that these diffs are exactly right. Martin certianly deliberately salted the redirect. If you claim otherwise, ask him first. --Irpen 18:18, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Just for the record, Martintg moved, blanked the redirect, and recreated precisely the same, all within one minute after moving, and he did the same thing, systematically, on two separate moved pages. That does look like he knew very well what he was doing, and it certainly had nothing to do with the confusion about capitalisation. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I meant to say exactly that. --Irpen 19:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Apart from assuming bad faith, what is your point? Dojarca did what you describe when he moved Template_talk:Soviet_occupation to Template_talk:Soviet_occupation_zones, there was not even a peep out of you, Irpen or anyone else. Martintg 19:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * And Dojarca got what he wanted, despite protests his one-sided move was not undone and still isn't. Considering the question here, I do think Martintg's move was according to consensus when he did it. Oth 20:23, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Irpen, are you sore at me for nominating Anti-Russian sentiment for deletion, is this what this is all about? User:Mikkalai agreed that the critisms of that article had merit. Wikipedia is not a WP:BATTLEGROUND, you know. Looking at the timeline above, you posted a compliant to ANI 13 minutes after I made the move, are you stalking me? Martintg 19:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sore? No. I did not even remember who nominated the article for deletion and was not thinking about it at all. And I am not stalking you. I do not click on your contributions. I suddenly saw an article on whose move proposal I voted under a strange name in my watch list and clicked to investigate how come. What I saw at the place of the original article's location was not a redirect but a redirect, followed in history by the blanked page and immediately followed by a revert, that is a redirect with a deliberately created history, a scorched page. See above what Fut.Perf. says as well.


 * Now, could you please answer in a clear way, why you did that? Why did you blank and restored the redirect immediately after your move? I do not mean the cAse confusion. I mean blanking and restoring, you know exactly what I am talking about. Are you saying that you did not deliberately scorch the earth? A straight yes or no would be appreciated. --Irpen 00:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Redux

 * Now Irpen is reverting within 5 minutes after my attempt to close the debate, even though there is no reason in continuing with the original rename proposal. I did this also in good faith after a request from User:Termer . So I don't understand what Irpen is trying to achieve by keeping a move proposal open after it is clearly dead. Can somebody please remind Irpen that Wikipedia is not a WP:BATTLEGROUND. It seems all rather pointlessly antagonistic and disruptive to me. Martintg 23:22, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * All I am requesting is that you, a highly involved in the debate, leave it to others to close it this or that way. Move debates are concluded and closed by uninvolved admins, not by users who initiated the move. --Irpen 00:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a link to a policy or guideline that states admins are required to close a move debate, particularly when the proposal has clearly failed and the initiator wishes to withdraw it? There is no formal page like in XfD debates, it is all confined to the article talk page, so I don't understand the point you are trying to make here. Martintg 00:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Irpen why exactly would you like to request that the article should be renamed Estonian Vikings? I mean, feel free to request it but why do you insist that it should be done under Martintg name as he has clearly withdrawn his request?--Termer 00:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I must say the whole thing what exactly is going on in here is very confusing for me. We worked hard to find a consensus on the talk page, it didn't come easy. Once we found the middle ground as far as I got it Martintg just went ahead and renamed the article. It seems he made a mess with the redirects? Is that the problem? So what's the big deal? The first time I moved an article on WP, I used the copy/paste method. So after that I knew how should it be done. Hope that Martintg learned something also with this. One thing that might have confused the situation, it seems that Martintg forgot to close his requested move. After the consensus was met, it was no longer relevant and should have been closed by Martintg immediately. Now, am I getting this right, has Irpen reopened the requested move that was opened and closed by Martintg? If thats the case, it wouldn't make any sense to me. Why would anybody want to reopen a requested move that is no longer relevant and has been closed by the user who had opened it? --Termer 00:48, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Termer, Marting did not "unintentionally made a mess with the redirects". As explained ad naseum he made an intentional mess through scorching the original page to prevent his move from being reverted. This is a classical trick that even has a name given to it by its inventor. Martin knows that he did that and why. Before ever saying again about a "good faithed move" straighten it out with Martin and let him explain it to you why and how he made a page move. --Irpen 00:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Why are you seemingly obsessed with my alledged wrong-doings? Do you have a personal issue with me? As I said, and others agree, I am telling you again, I moved the article in good faith believing there was a consensus at that time. Read the talk page. If you have an issue with "scotched earth" or "salt and peppering" or what ever it is called, why is it that we didn't hear a peep out of you when Dojarca did what you alledge I did when he unilaterally moved Template_talk:Soviet_occupation to Template_talk:Soviet_occupation_zones, without any discussion, debate or even warning. Martintg 01:13, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Irpen I accept this as your opinion. Until it's not explained, why would anybody in their right mind use any tricks for moving a page according to the reached consensus, your opinion is not going to make any sense to me.--Termer 01:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Why is this still an issue? All the old redirects are deleted. This is now a plain content dispute with dead horses being thrown around. I'm closing this discussion. — Edokter  •  Talk  • 01:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:POINT campaign by anonymous IP editor/sockpuppet
Following an extremely hostile and bitter AfD debate, an Earthlink user with one sockpuppet account has been engaging in a WP:POINT edit/revert war over articles I edit or create. I'm getting tired of having everything I work on being immediately attacked to "remove flowery language" or "cut unnecessary section", having < > stuck into the middle of perfectly well sourced paragraphs, and templates about fiction, original research, and NPOV stuck into every section. User will not negotiate with me, claims that vandalism from his addresses(es) are just "another user" on the same Earthlink IP every time, uses said addresses to avoid 3RR violations, and has shown zero good faith in his editing habits (so far I've been accused of being a "fanboy", illiterate, deliberately using "peacock" terms to upset the NPOV of an article I've created, and intentionally uploading copyvio content. These accusations are plainly garbage.

User edits primarily on the following IP addresses, and also has one registered sockpuppet account:, which he claims is not actually his (and often attempts to defend his right to edit anonymously from it, ho ho).


 * note: this account has now been blocked for one year due to vandalism
 * note: this account has now been blocked for one year due to vandalism
 * note: this account has now been blocked for one year due to vandalism
 * note: this account has now been blocked for one year due to vandalism
 * note: this account has now been blocked for one year due to vandalism
 * note: this account has now been blocked for one year due to vandalism
 * note: this account has now been blocked for one year due to vandalism

Current edit war is ongoing on the article here. Since creating and publishing this page at 13:59 today, the user has made 10 unconstructive and questionable edits without any sort of prior discourse or discussion, then used one of his anonymous addresses to defend them and avoid 3RR violation from his sockpuppet account. This is more or less the gold standard this user participates in (he must be watching my contributions page like a hawk). The article was up for less than an hour before he got to work.

Frankly, I'm getting sick of having to babysit every article I create or work on. This user believes his edits are wholly correct, not open for negotiation, and that I am being disruptive by reverting him. As of now, this user has yet to actually contribute any content or material to any of the articles in question, and that's really starting to get to me. He won't discuss his edits, he fills my talk page with rubbish and accusations of every policy violation under the sun (including vandalism), and at the current rate of things, my edits reverting him are going to eclipse the constructive ones I've made (like actually editing or creating articles, for one...). Is there anything that can be done about this? MalikCarr 23:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a clash over content style that is threatening to go nuclear. I protected it for 24 hours in the hope that both parties will try to talk reasonably to each other. Review of my act welcomed, & if it appears both parties are beginning to play nice the protection can be shortened. -- llywrch 18:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I had to protect a bunch of related articles the other day; frankly I wish I could cash in my rouge points and protect the lot of them indefinitely until the parties figure something out. <small style="background:#fff;border:#800080 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 22:38, 11/5/2007
 * There is an ongoing RFM here: Requests for mediation/Gundam but it started before this explosion of a "fourth/fifth" (I'm officially listed as a party, though I have not edited the articles that the RFM lists) party. hbdragon88 01:25, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

User:beh-nam
Moved from WP:AIV

Please be advised that I've been monitoring Beh-nam and he is still harrasing other users  after he was warned by several admins and was blocked very recently for the same behaviour. He should not have been unblocked from indef to one week because he continues to vandalise pages and curse other users with no regrets. He is using IPs to spread ethnic hate, hate speaches, racial discrimination, ethnic wars, accusing others for vandalising pages but in reality he is the one vandalising and leaving very offensive remarks on other people's talk pages. ,, I don't understand why is this person allowed to continue with such bad behaviour? Please ban this vandal, seems like he comes online just for edit-war because that's all he does everyday, he will not learn. I believe he is a meatpuppet of Anoshirawan, they both changing the correct word "Afghan" to a false "Afghanistani" name everyday, everywhere they come across it., NOTE: I just provided several of his hate posts, there are many more if you slowly go through his history. His history does not show any such good contribution, they are all related to race and ethnic wars.Khan1982 01:04, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * reset to indef block, obviously not learned his lesson. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 02:44, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Uhm, did you even check the contributions? All but one of the offending links given above are from before the previous block. The only marginally problematic new edit is the one about User:Maria Tahoo . Is that enough for an indef? (Incidentally, he may actually be right about that accusation). Where he's certainly also right is in saying that this Khan1982 is a banned sock, edits like are his signature. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Update: Fut. Perf. blocked Khan1982 for being a sockpuppet shortly after posting the above. -- llywrch 19:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes I looked at the contribs, but based on the Khan1982 info immediately above, I'm unblocking beh-nam. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 20:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Advertisements pretending to encyclopedia articles
Please check SqlSpec. I have noticed that advertisement for company, product etc is written in such a professional way that it looks like encyclopedia article. If this continue companies will hire wikipedians who has in depth experience of writing wikipedia article and advertise their products. As the article looks encyclopedia article and new page patroller, administrators has constant pressure due to volume of new articles created, such advertisements may go unnoticed. I request all admins to remain alert and not get fooled by professional wikipedians. Thanks. abhih 06:22, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Will? It's already http://www.mywikibiz.com happened. If you happen to see another professional advert-like article in the future, please do as you've done and either open a case on WP:COIN or alert an admin. Thanks! <small style="background:#fff;border:#800080 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 07:25, 11/5/2007

Another one Total Recorder. I just wonder how can new user write article in perfectly professional way in his first edit on wikipedia. I am really concerned about this. abhih 08:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Deleting encyclopedic content on a competitor is also a common commercial tactic. Why this deletion but leaving 16 others that have articles, and several more that don't? I suggest that Total Recorder be restored if your only complaint is that it is written too well. Add a sourced encyclopedic problem with the product if NPOV is the issue. We don't delete because articles are not yet perfect. All of wikipedia is unfinished. WAS 4.250 17:52, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Now I got the meaning of your message on my talk page. We need to aply logic to understand what is advertisement. There are companies which are far far bigger than wikipedia. These companies, like my company, do not need wikipedia for publicity. My company will not even care about what is being written on wikipedia about my company. There are millions on internet to write about my comany and revert vandalism. Even small employee of my company will not interfare. But there are some small companies who want to be on first page of google results for publicity of their product. I am talking about such companies who want to use wikipedia for publicity. Same things apply to bio. Stephen Hawking will not attempt to write his own bio on wikipedia. But there are others who want to use wikipedia and google to be famous. I hope you got the meaning. abhih 18:55, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought Wikipedia used tags that kept articles from hitting the top on search results under certain circumstances. -Jéské ( Blah v^_^v ) 21:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Microsoft paid a person to edit wikipedia articles on its products. Deleting the competition to large companies' products is an unacceptable POV bias in wikipedia coverage. So long as there exists reliable published unbiased data on a product, we should have an article on it. There exists reliable published unbiased data on Total Recorder. WAS 4.250 19:13, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've restored the article. There's nothing in the article which seems to be blatant puffery - in fact it's written in remarkably neutral terms. It does explain clearly what the product does, its shareware limitations and avoids marketingspeak. Improve it, don't delete it. FCYTravis 21:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

this would be a case for WP:COIN rather than this noticeboard. There is no problem with companies paying people to write Wikipedia articles. The same guidelines apply for paid and unpaid editors, and I think we all know that just because somebody is unpaid doesn't mean they are automatically unbiased... dab (𒁳) 21:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

User Dbromage, suspected sockpuppetry, voting fraud, COI and self awarding of Barnstar
I have listed my concerns in both the Administrators and COI notice board as I believe there has been abuse and COI. User:Dbromage behavior warrants an investigation. If my allegations are judged to have basis, it goes a long way in explaining the editing warring, sock/meat puppetry, and general un-civility, which has occurred in Railpage article over the past year.

Having entered into a good faith discussion with a editor who admits a COI with the Railpage article (see 3-4th November 2007), I've finally become sick and tired of this user Dbromage and his sock and meat puppets.

User:Dbromage I suspect is using multiple sock puppets Thin Arthur, The Null Device and possibly two other IP addresses (see end) to edit, vote and discuss changes to the Railpage article and many other articles (refer evidence) here at Wikipedia.

Reading the Railpage article the name Dbromage seems to match as the subjects founder - David Bromage.

I’m particularly disturbed that the user has awarded himself and an Administrator a Barnstar using his Thin Arthur sockpuppet (a first on Wikipedia?). 

The user has also given false and misleading information to an Administrator User:Durova in order to conceal his identity. 

This user has used the Thin Arthur and Null Device sock puppets and has not disclosed his conflict of interest when discussing Railpage article content.   

User:Dbromage would have a difficult case against ignorance of COI guidelines as he has advised others on the issue using the Thin Arthur sock puppet. 

And I consider the be the more serious, voting against its deletion and making comments against the articles deletion. | Afd #2, | Afd #3, |Afd #4.

The user has also attempted to take action against myself when there is disputed content on numerous occasions without disclosing his/her conflict of interest in the Railpage article.  

I also suspect that the user is also responsible for meat puppetry using names such as FailpageMustGo, “DFC free Oz” and “Fundie Busters” using throw away IP addresses in a deliberate attempt to stymie debate and discredit any further nominations for the article’s deletion. Look at the timing of the nomination of Afd #4, user:The Null Device and 59.167.77.190.

If these allegations are proven, how will it affect the status of the Railpage Article? as Dbromage through his sock puppets have heavily edited the article. See 23rd July 2007

Evidence to support my allegations

Please look at this; I consider Thin Arthur and 150.203.56.19 to be the same. IP 150.203.56.19 seems to be an in adverted error of not logging into Wikipedia by user:Dbromage.

If you agree then, please consider this Revision history of Deborah Lawrie

The article was created by Dbromage and then was amazingly edited on the same day by 150.203.56.19. It would be shear stroke of luck that another user with as much knowledge on a remote subject would stumble over it within a matter of hours, and providing finishing references to Dbromage edits. True, there is a two-hour break between edits. It looks as though the same editor is at work.

Please refer to the following link where one user corrects the other. Again, it looks as though the same editor is at work

If your are still unsure, there is more evidence linking 150.203.56.19 to User:Thin Arthur. These are just a few, there are some more in no particular order which I’ve put on my talk page. If you fancy yourself as a Wikisleuth, you can start here

Edits made within minutes


 * | Afd Political Change


 * | Wikiquette alerts

Evidence linking Thin Arthur, 150.203.56.19 to Dbromage
 * 20 min gap | List_of_notable_rail_transport_modellers - Thin Arthur was rather fortunate having those references on hand!!
 * | Bilevel_car
 * 10 min gap | Fred_Smith

Some other examples
 * | The_Omar_Khayyam_Show
 * | Son_of_Fred

Thin Arthur supporting Dbromage’s vote in an Afd - there are more on my talk page
 * | Victorian_general_election

Thin Arthur, edits Dbromage's contribution.
 * | WikiProject_Australia

Now look at user Thin Arthur’s edits with The Null device
 * Scott_McGregor&action

Null Device and Dbromage
 * Talk:Hush_%28song

It seems to me the same user editing in the same manner, circumstantial evidence, maybe, but based on the link between Dbromage and Thin Arthur it is surely enough to warrant a check user request against The Null Device.

Based on the above evidence I believe it would be worthwhile the following user names for check user.


 * Dbromage
 * Thin Arthur
 * The Null Device
 * 150.203.56.19

And based upon the edit made here &, and user who admitted to having these IP addresses, but was reluctant to disclose his user name to Administrator

Thank you.Tezza1 14:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 59.167.77.190
 * 59.167.89.251


 * This noticeboard does not function very well with long involved investigations, in part because inactive topics are archived in about 24 hours, and also because it is so high-traffick. If you are convinced that there are sockpuppets, I would suggest posting at Suspected sock puppets; if you think there are outstanding COI issues, try Conflict of interest/Noticeboard.  --Iamunknown 16:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, done Tezza1 16:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Unclaimed socks
I've blocked and  as suspected sockpuppets, but I'm not really sure whose socks they are. Before I blanked CBOrgatrope's talk page, it was an exact copy of my talk page from early October, except he changed all of my signatures to his. Also before blanking, his user page had pieces of multiple pages, including Moe Epsilon's user page and HiDrNick's talk page. CBOrgatrope's talk page archives all belonged to and were set up by  (all now deleted). The weird thing is that CBOrgatrope appeared to be editing constructively before the block, so I'm bringing this here for input. - <font color="#0000cd">auburn <font color="#EF6521">pilot  talk  14:56, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * From your description only and not doing any further research, you should immediately unblock CBOrangetrope. That user (according to your description) is editing constructively but is mischevous with his/her own talk page.  By blocking, you are damaging the encyclopedia Wikipedia.  The talk pages are just support of the encyclopedia, not the reference materials themselves.  If you are bothered by the weird behavior, discuss it.  As far as Shrinklefarm, you didn't say what is going on.  I suggest immediate unblocking of the CBOrgange and discussion.

If CBOranges mainspace edits are good (that's a big IF), I suggest blocking of administrator auburnpilot for a short period because he/she is damaging WP unnecessarily as well as giving CBOrange a talk. Blocking is to prevent damage to the encyclopedia, not because you think someone's talk page is "weird" (auburnpilot's complaint) Miesbu 16:08, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * There is no foundation for your suggestion that we should block an administrator because of disagreement with a block he imposed on somebody else. This would serve no useful purpose and we do not engage in such practice, particular when the administrator has voluntarily brought the matter here for review and comments. Newyorkbrad 16:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * is a self declared sock and his/her comments thus far are a bit absurd. As stated above, I welcome input on these blocks. - <font color="#0000cd">auburn <font color="#EF6521">pilot  talk  16:18, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * That's a wiki-lynching term to call someone "nigger". Yes, they may be black but you are not AGF and launching personal attacks on me.  All my comments make sense.  In the US South, a nigger is an excuse to lynch them and hang them.  You seem very aggressive calling CBOrange names and calling me names.  Stop this!Miesbu 16:35, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * My favorite is his snarky comment complaining about John Reaves unblocking himself when he blocked himself accidentally. That's the sign of a good-faith contributor to the encyclopedia.  ;)  (Oh, and I've reverted the trolling section title back to the original.)  — bbatsell   ¿?   ✍  16:23, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm just a bystander who happened to read this, but it seems to me rather disruptive for a non-admin's user page to state that s/he's an admin and be included in the "Wikipedia administrators" cat (as CBOrangetrope's copypasted page did before it was blanked). Whether that deserves a block, I don't know, but it appears to be more than being "mischevous with his/her own talk page." Deor 16:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I was a little thrown off by the trolled title - "Why in the world does AuburnPilot think he needs a block on himself?" Anyway, re: CBOrgatrope, could he have just copied bits of talkpages for notetaking or other reasons, and accidentally dumped them on his own talkpage rather than on a sandbox page?  Also, why IS Miesbu using 2+ accounts?  Should that be investigated? Folic_Acid 16:30, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Checking a few logs, it seems CBOrgange was created by . - <font color="#0000cd">auburn <font color="#EF6521">pilot   talk  16:25, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Considering Miesbu's most recent post on my talk page accuses me of using the word "sock" in the same manner that the word "nigger" is used in the US South, I'm fighting the urge to issue another block. During an edit conflict, he/she has posted the same nonsense above. - <font color="#0000cd">auburn <font color="#EF6521">pilot  talk  16:39, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * What?! I've never heard that before, and I am from the South (North Carolina, born and raised).  It's off the current topic, but you're right, AP - Miesbu DOES say that he has a "main" account, making User:Miesbu a sockpuppet, at least in my book.  Folic_Acid 16:56, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for coming on so strong, but the real question is if CBOrange has constructive edits. If so, he/she needs to be part of a discussion that others are bothered by the talk pages, not immediate blockingMiesbu 16:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Checkuser appears to show quite a sock farm in use. I'll be issuing some blocks a bit later (don't have the time right now) Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 16:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Given that trolling from one of the now-blocked socks touched off the recent BADSITES drama around Robert Black (professor), I heartily approve the block. Thanks for taking the time. William Pietri 20:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Cool. I've gone through and blocked a large number of them.  This appears to be some long-standing troublemaker; I'm not familiar with their signature obsessions enough to be sure which one. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 20:49, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Alledge personal attack on WT:SPOILER
A minor edit war has just erupted on WT:SPOILER over whether Milomedes comments are personal attacks against Tony Sidaway.

My opinion, Milomedes comments are boarder line PA, but this is par for the course for him during this entire discussion. He has frequently accessed others he disagrees with of bad faith in the past and this accusation is no different. Which is one of the reasons I quite participating in the discussion. --Farix (Talk) 17:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I could understand it being removed as off-topic, they need to take their petty bickering to their respective talk pages. -- John Reaves 21:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry if my single revert has provoked an edit war. If removing doesn't work then the best thing to do with that kind of comment is, I think, to ignore it. --Tony Sidaway 21:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I just found this post and want to state my side. In general, I posted a set of behavior comments which are certainly tough criticisms, but behavior criticisms are not personal attacks:"WP:NPA:'Personal attacks do not include civil language used to describe an editor's actions, and when made without involving their personal character, should not be construed as personal attacks...'"
 * I did not invoke Tony's character. Indeed, on one occasion I have defended him and said I admired his efforts to improve how he personally interacts with other editors. (diff).


 * I accept Tony's apology. I read WP:RPA after I was personally attacked at WP:TalkSpoiler, and concluded that RPA is reserved for serious PAs such as libels. That's why I chose PA reminder-documentation, mentioned in the post Tony deleted, as an alternative to RPA which Tony stopped me from doing. How self-referentially ironic.


 * I respectfully disagree with John Reaves that Tony and I are bickering ("a petty quarrel"), because the behavior dispute issues are substantive to the debate itself. The claim of attempted debate suppression has repeatedly arisen in the historic May 2007 mass spoiler removal debate (now over 1,850,000 bytes), and others of the pro-spoiler side concur.


 * Farix wrote: "He has frequently accessed others he disagrees with of bad faith in the past and this accusation is no different." Farix cannot supply any diffs of my doing this, because it didn't happen. On the contrary, it is Farix who made the first personal attack against me (diff):"Farix (18:56, 23 August 2007) wrote: 'Pay no attention to Milo. He has repeatedly demonstrated that he is not interested in discussing the issue in good faith with his ad hominem attacks.'"
 * In partial reply I wrote (diff):"Milo (23:59, 23 August 2007): 'Impugning my good faith is a personal attack WP:AGF#Accusing others of bad faith. Unless you are willing to repeat that at AN/I with documentation, please delete that second sentence in your Farix 18:56. I'd also like an apology, but I suppose that's asking too much of you.'"
 * So at my invitation, here is Farix finally at AN/I repeating the charge, but, what's this? No documentation, because it didn't happen. Tsk, tsk.


 * Unlike Tony, to his credit, I never got an apology from Farix. IMHO, Farix quit the debate because it was tiringly long, and because his anti-spoiler side was losing the philosophy debate as summarized in my post. Milo 08:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I am uninvolved in the present dispute, but can certainly vouch for the fact that Milomedes not only posts extremely offensive bad faith ad hominem personal attacks on a regular basis, but also engages in trolling, wikilwayering, tendentious editing, filibustering, mischaracterising the actions of other editors, cherry-picking policy, cherry-picking third party sources and playing policies against each other. I have been the subject of incivility and ad hominem attacks by him on an almost weekly basis since March 2007. In fact, in my experience, Milomedes seems to make very few, if any, contributions to WP which do not involve one or other of the above policy abuses. I can also confirm that his above attempt to flippantly dismiss the accusation by claiming that it's something other than what it is, and then blaming the victim for responding to his attacks is also typical of his pattern of behaviour. There are literally dozens of citable instances of this sort of behaviour, which I am happy to point out to any Admin interested in reviewing them. An indefinite block on Milomedes is very much long overdue. --Gene_poole 08:49, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Gene, I'll introduce you.
 * Gene was called on the carpet for a seeming legal threat posted three days ago, having previously harassed the same user with a loathsome disease libel. Since this occurred in one of my regular article groups, I (and someone else) both reported Gene, so, his trash talk and wolf cries above are likely to be payback. This kind of thing is a normal monthly event when editing articles with Gene.
 * For those who don't know Gene, here's a quick credibility overview. This is Gene's block log, here Gene's character is discussed at his failed RfA, and here's where a bureaucrat expresses his doubts about Gene's veracity. There's a lot more, but those of you who do know Gene have heard it all before. Milo 13:15, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Block of T3Smile, Achidiac and Rdpaperclip
Brief summary -


 * Legal threats by Achidiac, one of three closely connected single purpose accounts.
 * Apparent intent being to somehow force an "A. Chidiac" article to exist despite 2 AFDs, a DRV, and 3 SPEEDY deletions of recreations of the newly AFD'ed material.
 * Apparent spurious accusations of bad conduct, couldn't see evidence to warrant this. (I have requested that if this is wrong, to inform me).

Detailed history, diffs and rationale - User_talk:Achidiac.

A SOCK inquiry closed at WP:SSP with the recommendation "These accounts are the same person, or several people in collusion. I recommend indef blocking all of them for abusive sockpuppetry". 

Cleanup of Chidiac-related images and links needed.


 * It's been a long, long day today. Can someone double-check that everything's fair and proper to best standards, that the deletions done were correct and none overlooked, and so on? It should be ok but I'd like a double-check on it since a block is involved. Thanks :)

FT2 (Talk 17:49, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * After a look through the contributions and related AFD, this looks like a completely correct block.  E LIMINATOR JR  19:18, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Having seen this one unfold for a while, I also endorse this. Orderinchaos 19:30, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Anblik
Summary: This user keeps recreating LesTout.com, even after it has been speedied many times for violating copyright, and as an advertisement.

Thanks, Codelyoko193 (T/C) 19:01, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Page is now salted and cannot be re-created. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

IP editor and caste articles
[relocated from WP:AN]

User:123.176.40.195 is repeatedly vandalising the articles.Pls ban the ip adresss from further editing wikipedia. Thanks John Rambo 20:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * You're looking for Administrator intervention against vandalism. But while you're here, the IP's edits don't appear to be vandalism. -- John Reaves 21:26, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think he is.  seems to be editing articles related to certain castes in India.  Most of what it's doing doesn't look like blatant vandalism, so I'm presuming the IP is either adding subtle disinformation that I and others not familiar with the subject matter are not able to detect, or it is adding information that Rambo4u just doesn't like.  Can someone who's familiar with this stuff take a look?  This was probably meant for ANI.  <font color="#285991">--Dynaflow   <font color="#285991">babble  21:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well if that's the case, he needs to try and talk to the other editor first (i.e. something other than "stop vandalizing, you will be banned). -- John Reaves 21:42, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I guess that's just how some folks say, "Hello." I would like to know why Rambo4u believes the IP's edits to be vandalism.  First, though, I'd like to move this thread en masse to ANI, if there are no objections.  <font color="#285991">--Dynaflow   <font color="#285991">babble  22:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Hal Cross
Per an analysis of editing patterns and Checkuser data, I have indefinitely blocked the above user as a sockpuppet of an indefinitely banned user. I note this here in case an unblock request claims that I am an involved party, as I have occasionally interacted with this user on Talk:American Family Association in recent weeks. If an unblock request is submitted, a dealing admin may email me for details. Thanks,  E LIMINATOR JR  23:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Legal threat
. This user has also edited as and. I'm just letting y'all know. Someguy1221 23:26, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Pretty obvious sock. I've blocked the main account indefinitely per WP:NLT, this will also shut down his IPs for 24 hours. <small style="background:#fff;border:#800080 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 23:29, 11/5/2007

Block and protection review
I'd like some input from other users regarding a block I made of 74.162.173.6. Originally, they made this vandal edit to Stargate, which was reverted. Then, they made this edit to Christina Aguilera, which I rolled back as vandalism, but in that edit, they added a source too. The IP then posted on my talk page about in I liked incorrect information in the Christina Aguilera article, and what my problem with capital letters was. They also trolled their own talk page in this time. In the end, I semi-protected their talk page for the trolling, and blocked the user to prevent more possible disruption. I think I may have been a little hasty with the block and protection though, hence my request for a review. Opinions on whether my protection and block were appropriate? Acalamari 23:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * While all of this might have been the reaction of a newbie upset over seeing his good faith edit reverted entirely (disregarding the initial vandalism), I don't see any problem blocking someone who responds with the maturity of a 7-year-old. Someguy1221 23:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So you're asking if you did right by blocking a vandal who happened to know how to add a ref to his disruptive edit (which another editor would have had to clean up even if the ref was kept), then made the cyber equivalent of scrawling graffiti on a bathroom wall? Yes, Acalamari, you did right, both on the block and protecting the page to stop further disruption. As a quick aside, I thank the IP for alerting me to the breaking Christina Aguilera news. I would have preferred a Britney story, but this will have to do. Jeffpw 23:57, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the input. I'll see if anyone else comments, but I'm relieved to know that my protection and block were justified. Acalamari 00:13, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Please Block Vandalizing Editor
Please block Elephante3333 for vandalism. This individual has engaged in vandalism before and has been duly warned on his or her Talk Page about the consequences of continuing such behavior. This editor's latest act of vandalism can be seen here:. ~ Homologeo 23:49, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * User has been blocked indefinately (actually a minute before you posted here).  You can bring similar reports to WP:AIV in the future, where the response is generally faster than it is here.  Someguy1221 23:52, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

The user Malkouri is a vandal, and has been vandalising articles since atleast march and should be blocked, sorry im new to this, someone please format this... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roboenigmaster (talk • contribs) 23:56, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Account blocked indefinitely. In the future please make these reports at WP:AIV and don't personally attack people in edit summaries, even if they are vandalizing. Natalie 02:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Possible compromised account?
In addition to my request for a review above, I have another request for a review. While I was writing my posting above, a user called Inseeisyou vandalized my user page. However, upon looking at the user's userpage and previous edits, they don't appear to be a vandal, and they haven't edited for months, leading me to believe this might be a compromised account. I was tempted to block, but decided not to. Does anyone else think this might be a compromised account? Acalamari 00:03, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This was my first impression when reverting the vandalism to your page, I checked the contribution history before I issued a notice about it, to determine the history of the editor. Oddly enough, their efforts in the past seem to be centered around removing vandalism, and I had not found anywhere they'd run in to Acalamari before, so I thought it strange they targeted his userpage. Based on the nature of the edit, I decided to use a template even though they were established, but it did cross my mind if this was somehow an account that was being used by someone other than it had been in the past. Family member, perhaps? <font color="8B00FF">Ariel <font color="F64A8A">♥ <font color="007FFF">Gold 00:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The IP resolves to Raleigh, North Carolina, the same state where User:Inseeisyou claims to be from (or in), so I think family member might be a good bet (or Inseeisyou just fell off his rocker). Someguy1221 00:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The vandalism from the IP mentioned above, and by this user, are very similar. I thought it was odd when I saw that registered user do that type of edit. Acalamari 00:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Even if it is a family member, I'm tempted to block the account, as that's normally the standard procedure for accounts that might be compromised. Also, if it is a family member, shared accounts are against policy anyway. Thoughts? Acalamari 00:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, we can't prove it was compromised, they were warned, and didn't repeat any other nonconstructive edits, correct? I would probably take a more lenient route, and drop a note on the talk page, asking if there was some sort of mix up, or if perhaps they left a minor unattended (who knows, lol). Maybe I'm too forgiving, but I'm not sure I'd jump to a block as of now. (Feel free to completely discount my non-admin opinion on this, however. ) <font color="8B00FF">Ariel <font color="F64A8A">♥ <font color="007FFF">Gold 00:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Acalamari, it could be a family member using the account without permission, and thus not a shared account. All it takes is checking that "remember me" box and giving a younger sibling access to your computer. Natalie 02:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's possible, but the account doesn't appear to have been active for several months. I'll leave the block but see what happens. Acalamari 02:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Baseballfan789
has taken a notice he received on his user talk page regarding an attack page he created that was speedy deleted, and altered it to read like a death threat. I don't see this as a valid use of a user talk page, and it circumvents the attack page policy as well. I reported this on AIV, but it was removed with the message that the edit was "benign". Since it has been reverted yet again, I feel as though I should report it here. This shouldn't be acceptable. JuJube 00:41, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The page requested for speedy deletion was an attack page, and his edit ("...requesting that he be speedily deleted from the human race") was there to extend the attack. Based on prior contributions, I don't think Baseballfan789 has anything constructive to add here, but instead of blocking him, I'll just give him a final warning.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 02:18, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * He archived his talk page. I can't help but wonder why. JuJube 02:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Article bullying (moved from WP:AN)
In regards to the Dir en grey article, certain users continue to bully this article. Looking at this articles history, it appears Notjake13 and Cyrus XIII, appear to have a history of bullying this article, and refuse to accept other peoples input. As soon as the article was updated to more encyclopedic, and I mentioned on the talk page that I don't see any further input was needed by me, the article was immediately vandalised and replaced with unencyclopedic content. User Parsifal also included information on the lead section which does not belong there. My efforts to move this information to a more suitable area were met with vandalism, and hostility. Their contributions have not been constructive, and I consider their edits to not be in a neutral point of view, or encyclopedic. Looking at the history log, I'm disgusted in the manner these users have treated many other editors contributions, and I have become disgruntled. They are bullying this article to reach an outcome that only they consent upon. I no longer have a desire to improve this article, as I don't care about the subject. However it still tarnishes the Wikipedias credibility as an encyclopedia. These few users have been bullying that article, and need to be stopped. Saguy1982 00:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC) Note: Notified users of involvement in WP:ANI. EoL talk 00:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This same highly disruptive user previously filed a report on AN/I that is still on this page, here: Uncivil behavior.  That report has extensive evidence added by myself and Cyrus XIII of ongoing problems caused by this user who until yesterday was editing through multiple dynamic IPs and strongly appears to be a sockpuppet of, who has also used many IP address to evade blocks and harrass established editors with the same kinds of behaviors.


 * Now that he has posted his report on WP:AN too, and it's been moved here, I hope the additional attention will help to unravel the ongoing and very difficult problems he's caused and is still causing.


 * Since the last time I posted details on the prior report, he has continually edit-warred contrary to consensus against multiple established productive good faith editors.


 * I will be offline for a while, but if anyone needs any information beyond what's already provided in the previous report, I will try to help.   --Parsifal Hello 00:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Follow-up. I should add a bit more context to assist with reviewing the very long report above.  Here is the sequence of recent events (not including his past blocks and IP-block evasion):


 * He edit-warred using dynamic IPs
 * His vandalism was reverted by various editors
 * He posted his report above, accusing Cyrus of incivility due to the vandalism reversions
 * I and Cyrus posted evidence to the above report
 * He was convinced to make a new user name and did so, to "prove" he's not the same guy
 * I wrote that I would assume good faith and would respond only to edits under his new user name, to see if he does not continue the past disruptions
 * His first edit with the new user name was vandalism that removed valid references
 * I reverted, and he posted a vandalism warning on my talk page
 * He escalated his edit-warring with multiple editors and it became more and more clear that he is a sockpuppet as suspected
 * After various talk page discussions, his vandalism was reverted by three editors on Dir en grey
 * I'm pretty sure he violated 3RR, though I have not had time to count in detail
 * When he saw that he was outnumbered by the consensus good-faith editors, he posted his WP:POINT report on WP:AN


 * That's the short story. The long story is quite long.  I'm offline for a while now, and will be around later if there are questions.  Full details are in the original report above, other than the new edit-warring he's been doing today, that's in the article history and talk page.


 * Thanks for your help with this. --Parsifal Hello 01:08, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

It is shame that none of those claims hold any ground, Parsifal. I have already stated I have no desire to edit this article again, but I ask an admin please look into that articles talk page. The bully tactics of these users is quite evident, and it is an affront to the English version of the Wikipedia. I have already been contacted with support by another user about the situation (who I assume is an admin) and welcomed their suggestion, although decided upon it before their input. As stated, they have a history of bully tactics, and refusing to consent with other users, which is evident in the history logs and talk page. Parsifal also seems to contradict himself, by stating before he has no knowledge on this article, yet he seems to know much about it. I'm not wasting my time any further with such childish behaviour. That article needs minor adjustments to be encyclopedic, but it can not be done with childish bully tactics by certain users. Thats all there is to it. Saguy1982 01:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Could you please cite my "bullying tactics". I have only cited policies and given warnings. The facts I present may be difficult to interpret or accept, but please do not misconstrue them as bullying. We have accepted a large amount of input on the article in question, however, you will see most updates and major work on the page done by Cyrus or myself, as I believe we both keep closely up to date with Dir en grey-related news and updates. Despite what you may believe an encyclopedia is, that is for the policies that are years in development to decide. If you were to ever achieve an actual consensus, productivity could run rampant on that article. Instead, it is almost a weekly that we engage in new conflicts with users thought to be multiple sockpuppets of you (Saguy1982) which always end with a ban on your part, or an extremely nonconstructive, but tragically necessary page protection.


 * In short, I politely ask that you do all that you can to avoid conflict, that you thoroughly read the Wikipedia policies, and that you contribute in a constructive, friendly, and noncontroversial manner. --Jacob Talk 01:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

An abusive editor continuing to edit war across multiple articles despite warnings
is a relatively new user who has been engaged in numerous edit wars across several articles including Biohazard, Converge, Opeth and a few others. Along with ignoring 3RR warnings the user has also made numerous WP:CIVIL/WP:NPA violations with several of his edit summaries. An RFC has been filed against this user here: Requests for comment/Scipo and several of these issues have been voiced by a number of editors but no actions have been taken to remedy his behavior and no resolutions have been agreed on at the user's RFC case. Since September his only purpose seems to be undoing the edits of others just because they differ from his personal opinion on the subject. All attempts to reason with the user have been ignored and the user continues to push his agenda forward despite numerous reminders of what possible consequences may come about from these multiple policy violations. 216.21.150.44 02:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

User:I already forgot
, a user with an otherwise unimpeachable contribution history, left this terribly inappropriate comment at this user's RfA. The nature of the comment (overtly sexual and subtly threatening in nature) is quite decidedly inappropriate, and would be seen as trolling from most any user, but, as noted, User:I already forgot hasn't done anything like this before, so there is a small chance the account could be compromised. Until he explains himself and accounts for his comment, I feel he should remained blocked. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - &lt;*&gt; 08:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with the block. The comment is completely out of step of the user's other contributions. -- Flyguy649 talk 08:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * To Catch a Predator? Block was justified. the_undertow talk  08:07, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur. I received email regarding the comment after I reverted it, but even then, while the intentions of the comment were explained, they were out of line. -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 08:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Now that the edits have been explained (you may or may not disagree, but you know that the user hasn't gone batshit insane, and they haven't lost control of their account), can xe be unblocked? <font color="#4169E1">W<font color="#191970">ODU P  08:23, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The user was likely responding (oddly and inappropriately) to this edit, in which I did say that I had no problems with pornography. However, in *this* case, my response would be akin to this, which is to say that an RfA is a completely inappropriate place to put something like that, as no one expects to see adult content in the middle of it. I support this block not because it was 'defending' me, but because there are places on Wikipedia where content of an adult nature is reasonable and to be expected (if, say, I searched for either of the terms he mentioned), and there are places where it is not. An RfA was not the place to pose the question so explicitly. --Thespian 08:56, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Endorse the block wholeheartedly. There should be no place for trolls like him in Wikipedia. Max S em 09:33, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * A pound says this is also . Endorse, anyway. Guy (Help!) 12:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Obviously you exhibit poor judgment as you are not even close. I'm sure a check user has been performed many times and has shown I only use my bot account and the I already forgot account. What makes you come up with such nonsense? Just because the other user has "forgot" in his/her name? Thats some pretty shallow detective work. Sorry for being pointed but the personal attacks are not warranted.I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.26.178.226 (talk) 17:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * You guys really do not have a clue do you? Not only do you have a misunderstanding of what trolling is, you now accuse me of having sock accounts? I could insert a load of diffs to clue you in on to what is going on, but it's rather comical as I know most user cant or will not read past the first sentence. Also, please do not make completely and totally false accusation of me having sock accounts or being related to porn at all. It only makes you look more clueless as to what happen and to the other existing policies that would allow a person to ask for help with such articles. I could call up the anti censor crowed and cite WP:CENSOR(hello policy) to back me on this, but I'm neither pro or con censorship and would personally like to the image removed from the list of sex position article and the title "fist fuck" removed from the fisting article as well. Blocking me is fine, but don't make totally false slanderous accusations with out proof of such. I slandered no one, made no threats, and used wikipedia policy to ask a very controversial question whether you like it or not. Again, actually do some reading before speculating and try to make yourself informed and not so clueless. I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.26.178.226 (talk) 17:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, when is the last time a troll sent a message to an admin informing them of their intentions? I suggest a few read up on trolling so they know exactly what it is and when to turn the mop into a billyclub. I already forgot  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.26.178.226 (talk) 17:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I shouldn't have to mention this, but wouldn't it also be a good idea to block my bot and remove it's bot flag? I know how the system works better than any troll or vandal and could get away with a lot of damage as I can pretty much program anything you need done on wikipedia. If I am indeed a troll or even suspected, this should have been the first thing blocked. Just giving a heads up on how such issues should be handle by the blocking admins as I have no plan to abuse wikipedia but the bot should be blocked anyway to prevent potential abuse by a disgruntled user.I already forgot  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.26.178.226 (talk) 18:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't endorse an indef block on this account. Blocks are not meant to be punitive, etc, and it's highly unlikely that there will be an further disruption as a result. Having said that, his comment was disturbing in the extreme and totally uncalled-for regardless of the rationale. Like, seriously - A<font color= "#FF7C0A">l<font color= "#FFB550">is o n  ❤ 18:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree about the disturbing nature of the image but be aware that it is in one of our top 100 articles! The "fist ****" is in one of our articles as well! Disturbing or not, we have many user pushing for these type of pages and images and it has caused many grief in my vandal fighting. These things cannot be ignored and we need to know how admins will handle similar situations. --Anon user formely known as I already forgot70.6.66.144 19:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but messing around on the same RfA that you posted the comment on, block evasion by socking, etc, etc is a deal-breaker for me. You've been blocked. Stand up address the root cause instead of fooling around. You've no regard for the rules you seem so concerned about - A<font color= "#FF7C0A">l<font color= "#FFB550">is o n  ❤ 21:03, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I have mixed feelings about the length of the block. I was shocked by the inappropriate RfA comment too; both because it was replaced by the user when removed, and for the breathtaking inappropriateness of what was said. I think I understand what the user's intentions were, and those too are deeply inappropriate. RfA is not meant to be a trial by ordeal. I should note that I was just having a relatively civilised discussion with the user at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Firearms. In my opinion, I already forgot needs to learn better how we work here; if he shows any sign of appreciating what he has done wrong and undertakes not to repeat the offensive behaviour, I would support reducing the block to a week. So far I have not really seen any evidence of this, and the propensity to threaten, wikilawyer and bluster seen in the posts above make me think we would not be losing much by leaving the block in place. --John 19:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I've blocked User:68.26.178.226, for evading User:I already forgot's block, based on comments made here, at User talk:I already forgot, and, Thespian's RFA. I only blocked for 24 hours, as I assume we'll have this worked out by then. SQL <sup style="color:#999">Query me!  19:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You're kidding right? You can block my account but you cant keep me from ever editing again (Hello account indef blocked). I had a feeling you where not completely ready for adminship... At least it must feel good for you to get some payback for me opposing your RFA right? No one has yet to provide a policy I violated (other than editing style), so my statements of admin abusing their powers are ringing through here. --anon user formerly known as I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.6.66.144 (talk) 19:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So instead of fessing up to the fact that you made a mistake & apologizing, you'd rather play a game of whack-a-mole with the rest of us? Everyone has a momentary lapse of judgement, & does something wrong. If you understand why what you did was wrong, admit to having made a mistake, then this will all be over & we all can move forward & continue to improve this encyclopedia. However, if your pride is so important that you want to compound a moment's mistake with countless more -- such as this sockpuppetting foolishness -- it will only lead to the rest of us (who I bet are like me, who until now had no opinion about you good or bad) deciding to pitch in & making an indef block into a permanent community ban from Wikipedia. -- llywrch 20:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "...understand why what you did was wrong, admit to having made a mistake, then this will all be over"... Kind of reminds me of a movie where a rebel tells the dictator to F-off and then the rebel is tortured until he swears allegiance to the dictator. All the while the rebel could just apologize and bow down to the dictator and it would all be over. I will never apologize for asking (during an RFA or any other discussion) if the user would promote a controversial image and article named after a bad word to featured status. I did apologize for truncating the word "article", but that is the only mistake I made.--Anon user FNA I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.0.204.13 (talk) 22:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I hadn't seen this when I made my previous comment. I did notice a certain pointiness in my previous dealings with him, and a willingness to argue for argument's sake, rather than be guided by consensus. Although this user has made some good contributions and is clearly intelligent and knowledgeable, unless he is willing to abide by our core values (including consensus and civility), there is nothing here for him, and nothing lost in leaving the block in place. Continuing attempts to game the system just make that more inevitable. At this point the ball is firmly in I already forgot's court. I suggest they think seriously about the choices they make from here on, if they wish to continue to contribute here. --John 20:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the fact that this has blown up into such an issue is rather ridiculous. Of course I already forgot could have displayed much more tact and courtesy in asking his question/testing Thespian, but are we permanently blocking members for one instance of inappropriate tone in 4000+ otherwise contributing edits? Block him for a few days at most, but a permanent block is unnecessary, especially given what's usually necessary for immediate permanent blocks (trolling or vandalism-only accounts, sockpuppets, etc.). This isn't a troll's first edits, but an otherwise good member of the community slipping up once. I'm not defending the style of I already forgot's question, but it isn't something to permaban someone over. &mdash; ዮም  | <font color="#FFD700">(Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 22:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with you Yom that this user could have shown much more tact in the original question. And before I encountered a browser crash, my comment to this thread was along the lines of "You did something worse than harassing someone -- you were wrong." (And this response to his misbehavior didn't help the situation.) However, he came back with a couple of sockpuppets, claiming that we can't block him; that doesn't convince anyone he's been misunderstood, & is still a valuable contributor. Then again, I haven't seen any more posts from him, so maybe he understood what I was trying to say & took a break from Wikipedia to calm down, collect his thoughts, & will engage in some constructive dialogue. That would end the block pronto, & if he had done this in the first place, it would have been over in a few hours or less. I have no problem with letting him come back; as I wrote above, I don't have an opinion about him, good or bad. My comment above was more along the lines of advice, rather than a threat from some power-hungry Admin. -- llywrch 23:20, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Unless I am missing something we have a good 'pedia builder who said one really inappropriate comment and is indefinitely blocked. I am not sure how this is consistent with the way some other cases are handled with destructive edit wars, reverts and ample swearing in edit summaries. Why is this not a 1 or 3 day block and be done with it? cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * An indefinite block was justified before the block evasion, and now is somewhat obvious. Addhoc 22:46, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

First I'm accused of being a vandal and a troll even though...
 * I use POLICY to ask very valid and specific questions. Totally legitimate question on a controversial image that has been removed from an article by me and jimbo wells with both of us leaving it after other wikipedians used POLICY to keep it in the article even though the style was completely different from the other images. Not some of my best edits but I learned and grew tremendously over the issue and to work with different social standards.
 * trolling does not include giving notice via email of ones intention.
 * the questions are totally relevant to a topic (Pornography addiction) the potential admin had minor edit conflicts with ?
 * ***A bad word*** has been a wikipedia article for some time now and asking "what is your opinion about" the article and if they would help make it a featured article (which I have no interest in doing) is a perfectly valid question.
 * the question sounded a bit strange but a large portion of our user base are learning english or use english as a second language and nothing uncivil or threating was added in the question but was worded in a way that was less eloquent like a person using ESL. A potential admin should know that users are often accused of trolling or vandalism just for the simple fact they have a hard time with english. This was a valid way to ask a question during an RFA as nothing was uncivil or a violation of policy but would indicate how they handle poorly worded questions.

Then I'm accused of having a sockpuppet account and being a child predator. Which is totally uncivil and is slanderous given the fact that my identity is know by a few here on wikipedia. If any one of you was falsely accused of being a predator or creating a sock account, you would feel the same way... trust me. I did not make any threats about the slander and only gave notice that it's not right to make such accusations. Is this trolling or making threats, why am I accused of "the propensity to threaten, wikilawyer and bluster seen in the posts"? Another fire from the hip statement in my opinion.

So now I'm indef blocked ("significant disruption or threats of disruption, or major breaches of policy") and accept the fact that the User:I already forgot account is gone for good. No worries, I'm here for wikipedia and not to rack up an edit count. So I go ahead and communicate on the talk pages... no distributive edits, just communicating the issue at hand using an IP address instead of an account. Then an admin starts throwing blocks to the IP accounts I use even though though I have a right to invoke POLICY since my edits are not disruptive and are only meant to communicate and help wikipedia as stated in the policy. I also have a right to invoke POLICY because the indef block is not a ban but being interpreted as such and because the block is being used as punishment for using bad-words in an RFA which the policy is clear blocks are not to be used as punishment.

Then, since the account is indef blocked, I make the statement that I cannot be kept from ever editing again (and yes, I expect admins to know the difference from WP:BLOCK and WP:BAN) since the block is potentially forever, that I can still contribute constructively using an IP account. So with that statement I'm now taunting the block? No, I'm saying that since the account is blocked indefinitely and I'm not trying to get it back, that I can still contribute constructively without and account.

Well I guess thats another strike against me, because now I'm accused of creating sock accounts (which by definition is incorrect) even though no trolling, deception, or any type of vandalism has been done. Is this how the mop is used? Or is stating "adminship is no big deal" and acting as if they wield a mop instead of a billy club just part of the curtsy and walk down the isle of approval to adminship? I feel adminship is in fact a big deal depending on the user and should be looked at as a big deal during the RFA. Only after the RFA process should it be looked at as not a big deal. I know that my opinion goes against Jimbo's and consensus opinion on adminship, but I see how things are much different from a few years ago and how we must evolve with the changes. I hope this can be an example of how the admins can turn a mop into a rifle and fire from the hip with out knowing how to enforce policy or understanding the issues at hand. Yes I used bad-words, yes my RFA question was loaded and very complicated, but does that warrant firing from the hip??? Who knows??? I'm sure now I will be accused of attacking admins when all I'm trying to do is communicate that we have issues with admins pushing personal editing styles and using the mop as a billy club without true consensus. Take it as constructive communication or keep making accusations of trolling, either way, I'm not worried as I'm just a volunteer not looking for some sort of personal gratification other than losing a good encyclopedia. But on the bright side, I have hard copies that I should really get back to using anyway... Nothing can replace the smell of an old book and a silent keyboard. --User formerly known as I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.6.194.80 (talk) 18:29, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I've considered responding to this a few times, but I'm not sure quite what to say; I don't actually think that I almost forgot's issues are actually with me, or they weren't until they decided to start in on my RfA because the options here are 'admit you were wrong,' and 'stay the course, regardless.' Despite the block evasion and trolling, this has very little to do with me, but because it does involve my RfA, I feel like I should say something. I truly appreciate the work several admins have been doing to try and keep my RfA focused on the actual RfA, and not this. This has been tricky, because there've been a number of things that if this were over anyone else, I would be right there to help. I just wanted people to know that I've been hanging back because in this case, it is inappropriate for me to do otherwise. Ironically, I don't want my RfA to get bogged down in this drama. Really, I prefer my dramas to remain on the stage. --Thespian 07:58, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It has nothing to do with you and is simply the luck of the draw. It is in fact %100 about your RFA as I've never crossed any of your edits (or if I did, I didn't take notice) and based my questions off your statements in the pornography addiction article and the statement that you are a wikignome. The comments in the pornography addiction article didn't come off as much of a content dispute but I could see how the discussion got you a tad bit irritated(for the lack of a better word) as you had to try and convince people of your stance and personal experience with the subject. I could totally relate to your situation so I decided to ask questions that I personally had conflicts with knowing that being a wikignome (I consider myself one as well so again I can relate... Well, actually more of a wikinomad), it's only a matter of time before you come across the same situation as I did. Personally, giving that you said you worked as a phone sex operator, I thought you would have said something along the lines of not having an issue with the image and article but would not personally help to make the articles (List of sex positions and ****) to featured status. Referencing a couple of featured articles that had sexual content and talking about how it caused a stir with community would have added extra points to my support. Obviously the alternative is what we are seing here... Poor administration actions, violation of policy, enforcing policy that doesn't exist, no understanding of trolling, incivility by administrators, and turning the mop into a billyclub for punishment. Right now I would give you a few support points for reading and tring to understand the issue, however I would still avoid full support being that you are not familiar with trolling and the policy surrounding this issue. Also, hanging back and letting other people answer a question asked on your RFA makes me sway more towards oppose. You need to be ready to answer your own questions even if the question may contain a bad word or two. You can take this as an attack or you can respect it as building consensus or giving an unpopular opinion on your RFA for the sake of preparation for the battle (trolling and vandalism). Anyway, its not about you personally and early congratulations on your RFA. Hopefully you can look at every situation from both sides and not follow the trend of making knee jerk decisions and firing from the hip. Follow policy the best you can and try to remain pro or con nothing and work with just the facts. --Anon user formely known as I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.26.90.254 (talk) 17:04, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * After mentioning this to my mother, the long way around ("So this user tried to provoke me by..."), my 65-year-old mom said, "He tried to troll you with pornography? The poor dear." (my mother rocks, btw. I have a mom who knows the proper use of the word 'troll'. Regardless of what you *intended* by it a troll is 'someone who intentionally posts controversial or contrary messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum or group with the intention of baiting users into an argumentative response.' It doesn't matter that you sent a letter to some admin afterwards saying, 'this is what I am doing', you still, in that edit, became a troll. The content of what you posted was completely inappropriate (I addressed this above, though you've ignored it except to somehow claim I support censoring, though showed I left a link you'd no doubt also find offensive on an article about tea bags), but what you said didn't actually faze me at all. It was completely inappropriate; a 16-year-old and a 13-year-old commented in my RfA, but it didn't bother me in content, just in context. Your continued block evasion and insistence that you're not a 'real' troll, that *everyone else* is wrong when we have a handy page on it here on Wikipedia that defines it, those bug me far more than you linking to bad clip art (it doesn't btw, belong on Wikipedia. Not because of what it depicts, but because looks like it came from a 70s book on adding variety to your sex life). And sometimes (as I'll be doing after this, WP:DENY *is* the best response. --Thespian 03:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm glad to see you completely misunderstand. Good luck to you and again congratulations on your RFA.--Anon user FNA I already forgot 70.6.208.243 18:00, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * "it doesnt't belong on wikipedia because it looks like it came from a 70s book..." Good grief, I just realized that was said by an admin with speedy powers! Good thing you said that after your RFA... Looks like my question worked but only came to fruition after the AFD. :) (honest smile) -- Anon user FNA I already forgot   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.6.208.243 (talk) 18:17, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems that User:I already forgot thought it would be a good idea to perform a behavioural research experiment by making a certain post in User:Thespian's RfA. This experiment was a success for all concerned, in that it enabled the wider community to learn a good deal about how Thespian deals with a crisis. So much for the good news. I'm sure User:Jeffrey O. Gustafson did not intend to perform an ironic counter-experiment, but the block sadly did produce a lot of data. (withdrawn as unhelpful; just read the post above) Sheffield Steel talkstalk 18:11, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * All I'll add to this is that last time I checked, a block of an account that no other admin is willing to overturn constitutes a de facto ban. As such, the contributions of the individual behind the blocked account can be reverted on sight and the accounts/IPs used blocked.    Other than that, I'd say it is time to close this thread and end the dramady; unless someone thinks User:I already forgot should be unblocked...--Isotope23 talk 18:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not exactly. Only after "no administrator proposes unblocking a user, and the block has received due consideration by the community, the user is considered banned". Which at that point, you would list my blocked account User:I already forgot and related bot accounts (User:JabbaTheBot and User:Alpha beta) at Wikipedia:List of banned users. --Anon user FNA I already forgot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.0.204.13 (talk) 21:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I would say that given the fact that after this thread, nobody has seen fit to unblock your account, the criteria has been met.--Isotope23 talk 18:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * ( sound of snare drum roll... shaky last cigarette in mouth... blind fold on ) Ok, I'm ready. Fire away. --Anon user FNA now executed I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.6.208.243 (talk) 18:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Unblock request review needed at User talk:Vintagekits
An unblock request that should receive prompt attention is pending at User talk:Vintagekits. Review should preferably be by administrators who have not had previous dealings with the disputes addressed in Requests for arbitration/The Troubles. My own current thoughts about the block are on the talkpage. Newyorkbrad 00:35, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've unblocked him. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 00:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Any particular reason? 1 != 2  17:26, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agreed with Alison and Newyorkbrad comments on Vintagekits' talk page. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 00:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem with your suggestion, Newyorkbrad, is that any uninvolved appears to become an involved admin at Vk's behest. I was originally asked to intervene because I was entirely uninvolved, now because I have blocked Vk a few times and drew his ire, he now wishes to paint me as involved. This is not the first time Vk has tried this tactic, the point is to marginalise those admins who are familiar with the full extent of his record of disrputive behaviour. The warning I left for him  was  in response to a clear repetition of the behaviour ArbCom ruled on and was a clear breach of the terms of his probation. It was in the response to this warning that earned him the block per his civility parole.    Personally, I don't care what Vk says about me and would not have blocked him for that myself, but I am concerned that he appears to be able to convince people that an admin who took actions against him in the past becomes "involved" and thus should not interact with him again. That said, If other admins wish to actively ensure Vk adheres to the terms of his probation, I am more than happy to walk away and let them do so, but no-one appears willing to do so. I do not consider it appropriate to ignore ongoing disruptive editing simply because the editor in question wishes to paint any admin he interacts with as having a vendetta against him, especially one that has been blocked by 10 different admins in the past. At this rate there will not be anyone left "uninvolved."  Rockpock  e  t  01:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "but no-one appears willing to do so" - really? - A<font color= "#FF7C0A">l<font color= "#FFB550">is o n  ❤ 01:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Unwilling, or simply unaware of it. You said yourself "this was the first time the Arb provisions were invoked and he was caught out. You get to do that once (the plead ignorance bit) then no more. He's had his chance now". I'm in total agreement with that, but he wouldn't know he had his chance unless he was warned and directed to the terms of the probation, which was what I did. Did you noticed that he had revert warred and were you planning to warn him? Was anyone else? Perhaps someone would like to be the go-to-guy in future? Rockpock  e  t  01:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, as an arbitration clerk (not nominally assigned to this particular case, but I followed it closely and helped with the implementation notes at the end), the wording of the proposed decision was a complete mess for awhile as the case appeared ready to close with some paragraphs of the proposed decision passing and others not, but containing cross-references to the paragraphs that didn't pass, and thus making no sense. As a result, there may have been some legitimate confusion as to exactly what the decision meant, until the arbitrators were consulted and we got it cleaned up just before it was announced. Therefore, claims that Vintagekits was not sure as to the exact status of his probation may have been legitimate in this one instance. That excuse would, of course, not be available in the future. Newyorkbrad 01:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm aware of that, which was why I made the decision to warn Vk that he was breaching his probation, rather than issue a block. I was left with a quandary: do I ignore it and permit him to continue to edit-war counter to ArbCom's ruling, do I warn him by posting on his talk page, even though I am aware he does not welcome me there, or do I block? I don't see the point of having ArbCom if we are not going to enforce its rulings, and I thought a warning would be fairer than a block, so did so and told him to feel free to remove the notice at his pleasure. Do you have a suggestion for which course of action would have been preferable, Brad? Rockpock  e  t  01:58, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I find his claim to have been unaware that he was under a last warning about edit-warring and incivility on NI-related articles to be rather disingenuous, given that he was informed of the outcome. I thought Tyrenius' block was a good one, and was disappointed to see an unblock request couched in such uncivil language ("Rockpocket was the main editor that attempt to get me indefinately blocked during the Arbcom for that reason I would prefer not to deal with him because of his agenda to get me blocked") was honoured for such a problematic user. However, moving onwards, it might be helpful if we agreed here who will block Vk the next time he edit-wars or abuses other users. If we are to give Vk a last chance, it needs to be monitored. If those admins (and there are now eleven of us, I think) who have previously found it necessary to block him are recused from enforcing the terms of his probation, who will be able to block in future, and who is monitoring this? --John 02:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I have been assured Vk's talk page is now "crawling" with admins, so I can only assume at least some of them will notice him violating his parole rather than wait until he makes an unblock request before commenting. Its also noted that, Newyorkbrad excepted, all those admins who appeared to unblock Vk didn't see a problem with leaving this, added to his page in response to a perfectly justified warning. Maybe they didn't notice it, but one would have thought if you were willing to endorse an unblocking you might check to see whether there was a good reason for it in the first place. How encouraging that "uninvolved" admins have things under control. I think we risk setting a very dangerous precedent in assuming that admins who provide evidence to ArbCom justifying their prior admin actions automatically become an "involved" party and must recuse themselves from enforcing ArbCom's rulings. That appears to be what is being suggested here. Like John, I await advice about who exactly is ensuring the probation is adhered to.  Rockpock  e  t  07:08, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Vintagekits was previously indefinitely blocked because of his abusive language to other editors. This block was lifted by ArbCom, by whom he was placed on probation, the terms of which were one revert per week on certain subjects, as well as "may be briefly banned for personal attacks or incivility." He breached the first condition. He could have been blocked, but Rockpocket leniently warned him instead. Vintagekits removed the warning (as he is entitled to do) but with the edit summary, "GET OFF AND STAY OFF MY TALK PAGE 1. THAT WAS NOT A CONDITION OF MY RETURN 2. YOU CAN NOT ACT ON ME AS YOU ARE AN INVOLVED ADMIN - trot on - I feel your pain from here!" He posted to User talk:Rockpocket under a heading, "Get off and stay off my talk page", saying, "You are not welcome there and its is a just pure provikation that you are posting there - DONT DO IT AGAIN", "you - who I consider a disgraceful excuse for an admin", "please use your bitterness in a more constructive manner", "control your endless rage", "You sound like you are going to cry, you really are obsessed with me, it's sad really", "It must kill you that you just can ban me doesnt it". All of this is quite unjustified and a clear breach of the second probation condition. Again he could have been blocked, but I gave him a warning to desist from such attacks. His response was to refer to "[Rockpocket's] twisted and bitter agenda". Clearly Vintagekits is violating the second ArbCom probation condition and showed no signs of relenting, which was why I blocked him. I fail to see why he was unblocked.

None of the admins in the ArbCom case received censure, nor were any prohibited from applying the ArbCom sanctions (unless involved in a specific edit dispute). Vintagekits has no grounds for banning any admin, including Rockpocket, from doing so or from posting on his talk page.

Tyrenius 22:45, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This is my understanding of the situation also, Tyr. Of course, in his unblock request, Vk declined to mention all that, preferring to suggest he was blocked for removing content from his talk page or requesting others do not post there. I can't comment on whether the unblocking admin made of the situation, as he he declined to elaborate. Perhaps he would be willing to invest the time to oversee the terms of this probation, since he appears to be familiar enough with it to unblock? Rockpock  e  t  23:07, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it is exactly as you have previously pointed out, namely that admins fresh on the scene will not see the whole picture and those familiar with the situation will be accused of bias, persecution, obsession, being involved or whatever to try to prevent them from acting or to drive them away from sheer exhaustion. Tyrenius 23:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that any admin that needs to do so to carry out the business of the wiki should feel free to post wherever and whenever needful, including on pages of users they had unpleasant interactions with in the past, unless there are specific extenuating reasons why not. I also agree that it would set a bad precedent to say that we need a new, previously uninvolved admin, every single time that we deal with a user. But I'm not sure what's being accomplished now. Wasn't VK blocked for a while for this comment? Do we have reason to believe that the behaviour (which I do agree was incivil) is going to recur if VK remains unblocked? The recent contribs log seems pretty benign. I would hope that VK gets the message that he can't carry on this way without consequences but we know that forcing apologies doesn't work very well. If this recurs, block again, but if not, perhaps let it go? See ForgiveAndForget. I think a lot of people are trying very hard, and it's not easy. This is a difficult situation. ++Lar: t/c 23:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Vintagekits, unfortunately, does not seem to be making the effort needed to take advantage of no longer being indefinitely blocked. He is continuing his aggressive behaviour. The unblocking is just an encouragement that he can continue to get away with it. It is very much not in his interest that he should be allowed such a perception. The inevitable is an eventual indef block all over again. There is no point in the ArbCom ruling unless it is enforced. Tyrenius 23:22, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Here are VK's contributions since returning from his unblocking, which ones are the problem? Giano 23:30, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's all described above and can be found on User talk:Vintagekits (with Rockpocket's warning in the history) and on User talk:Rockpocket. Do you need all the diffs? Tyrenius 23:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Could you not all just leave him alone, to sort himself out. He is making some valuable and good edits. You appear to be just looking for trouble and hounding him into a corner and I'm sure you know what happens when you corner an angry person. Is that what you want? Giano 23:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting that "some valuable and good edits" means those that violate ArbCom's probation conditions should be overlooked? Rockpock  e  t  00:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I am saying that you appear to be too involved and too heated. Why not ask an Arbcom member to review the situation. Or else let him find his feet. Do you seriously imagine you are helping the situation at the moment? Giano 00:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

(outdent) Far from it, Giano. If you read my warning you would note it was perfectly civil, to the point and within the scope of ArbCom's review of the situation. All the heat was generated by the incivil response. I have been nothing but civil to Vk, and all I have ever received was personal attacks and threats of violence in return. Moreover, you said "all", which suggests you expect everyone should ignore his edit-warring, not just me. What is not helping at the moment, is that no-one else seems interested in supervising ArbCom's remedies, yet everyone is happy to tell those that are willing to do it they should not. I've said it three times on this thread alone, and twice on talk pages. If so-called "involved" admins are not to deal with Vk's disruption, who is willing to do it? I'll happy defer to any other admin if they are actually going to enforce ArbCom's ruling and nip incivility and disruption on article related to the Troubles at the bud. Rockpock e  t  02:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You have become too involved and stressed, it would be far better if you took a step backwards and let others deal with it. Rightly or wrongly VK has asked you to stay away from him and his page. You must ask yourself if your presence there was prudent - and if your continuing interest in the case is inflaming the situation? Since VK was unblocked early yesterday morning by RLevse his edits have all been fine and useful. We all know he is not the easiest of editors and has strong opinions but he does seem now to be trying hard let's give him some space. Personally I think he needs a strong mentor but he has not been assigned one so in the absence of a mentor he is finding his own way and on the whole doing OK but this heckling from the sidelines from those he thinks would like to see him gone is less than helpful. Both Brad and Lar seem to be watching him as do many other admins I suggest you chill a little and leave it to them. Giano 07:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Best suggestion yet, on a number of levels. So ... what if ArbCom were to appoint a suitable mentor for VK from a pool of volunteers or something? Thoughts? - A<font color= "#FF7C0A">l<font color= "#FFB550">is o n  ❤ 08:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Mentoring was one of the ideas I put forward on the workshop for keeping several of those concerned in line but it was rejected, so I'm unsure where you can go from here. Lar may agree if someone asked him very nicely but as the Arbcom rejected the idea I'm not sure how one can turn the clock back. The advantage of a mentor is that not only is VK given guidance he also has by the same token some protection. It has to be someone he truly respects but also someone who will give, not only, him some straight and blunt advice but also any of those who he comes into contact with. A thankless job, I suspect Giano 08:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Someone ought to check user this IP at least from the spelling of the 8.32 edit we know it is not VK! Giano 09:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

(de-indent) A poor attempt at impersonating VK. And the IP traces to EasyNet London, BTW;

14 easynet-ic-121677-ldn.b4.c.telia.net (80.239.193.110)  163.616 ms * *

.. so it ain't VK - A<font color= "#FF7C0A">l<font color= "#FFB550">is o n  ❤ 09:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Re. Mentoring and your suggestion; that was largely nuked at Arbcom due to its failure in the past (yeah, I was mentoring) and the fact that the 1 month ban was considered too light. It's still a good suggestion now, post-arb, though. It would have to be someone from waaay out field and completely detached from all this nonsense - A<font color= "#FF7C0A">l<font color= "#FFB550">is o n  ❤ 09:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The IP probably isn't him, but it is very probably one of his meatpuppets; remember he has a proven record of engaging in this. It would be great if one of the (shrinking) pool of admins who have not yet been abused and harassed by this user would keep an eye on this and try as far as possible to avoid us looking like gullible fools as a community by letting someone like this abuse good editors and get away with it. --John 15:25, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Vk has stated me numerous times that he will post on Republican noticeboards and recruit "thousands" of people to support him. As John says, that might normally be considered an empty threat except Vk has a record of doing exactly that (for those unfamiliar, see Requests for checkuser/Case/Vintagekits and Suspected sock puppets/Vintagekits) I expect that is what we are seeing today. Though, quite frankly, Vk and his sock/meat puppets and/or army of anonymous sectarian sympathizers can vandalise my page as often as they like, as far as I am concerned. They can also mount any amount of personal attacks on me from the safety of his talk page (cowardly as that is). I really don't care that much. What I do care about is the attempts of anonymous individuals to share personal information about me to an individual who has a record of issuing personal threats against me in the past (and admitted receiving the personal information of other editors off-wiki from persons unknown). That is unacceptable and I would ask that those so keen to preserve the sanctity of Vk's talk page stop that from occurring or else I will do so myself, irrespective of how upset it may cause Vk.
 * I also care about edit-warring, incivility and POV pushing with regards to article space to which, as far as I can tell, Vk is the only one who has engaged in that since ArbCom. If someone keep tabs on that and deals with it as ArbCom prescribed, then it wold be my pleasure to never exchange a word with him again. Otherwise, I will continue to issue warnings and block Vk if and when he breaks the terms of his probation. All my interactions with Vk were presented to ArbCom and they saw absolutely nothing to concern themselves with. Therefore, I refuse to be intimidated by unfounded allegations of someone with such an atrocious record of policy abuse, or those that see the opportunity for some admin-bashing.  Rockpock  e  t  16:20, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Your problem is that you cant forget or move on. I thought that the Arbcom was supposed to be a line in the sand or a clean slate - nothing could be further from the truth - yourself and John drag up the past at everyoppotunity - hence the reason I dont want to intract with you. I will never convince you or John but hopefully I can convince others that I do just want to get on with editing. There wasnt a problem until you consistantly posted on my talkpage despite the fact that you have been asked time and time again over a number of months not to. I am not causing any trouble on wiki but it almost seems to me that you and John wish I was! Just givem a break and leave me alone please - there are loads of admins watching my edits, its doesnt need you sticking your end in every two minutes - cant you see you are just enflaming the situation - infact it could be viewed that you ARE the problem because there was no problem until you came along. I'm rambling and not making myself clear now so I'll sign off.--Vintagekits 17:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. I dont know who that IP is, its not me or a sockpuppet or a meatpuppet of mine either despite what Rockpocket suggests.--Vintagekits 17:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Does anyone know hoe to put an archive box thing on this as this thread is going no where. Giano 17:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe per "It has to be someone he truly respects but also someone who will give, not only, him some straight and blunt advice but also any of those who he comes into contact with. A thankless job, I suspect" you could volunteer yourself Giano? It seems you would be ideally suited. Otherwise I suspect we will be back here in a few days. I hope I am wrong of course. --John 18:09, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * John - please. This discussion is turning into a pointless exercise. The substantive issue (VK's unblock request) has been resolved and it's time to move on here. If we're back here soon, well and good. In the meantime, I'll work on finding some mentor that everyone can agree on - A<font color= "#FF7C0A">l<font color= "#FFB550">is o n  ❤ 18:18, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Mass-deletion of maintenance tags from Family Guy articles
has a history of deleting maintenance tags. Today's campaign is removing Fictioncruft from Family Guy articles. As usual, no Talk page discussion; while I only commented about this incident on the user's Talk page only minutes ago, this editor has never replied to anything and is unlikely to be talked into reverting their changes.

I think this could use a rollback. / edg ☺ ★ 03:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * ✅ - final warning given. - Krakatoa  Katie  07:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks much! / edg ☺ ★ 07:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think the rollback was appropriate. This is not an incident but rather a content issue that is a normal part of the consensus process.  Administrative tools should not be used to favor one content position over another.  The articles were all tagged at the same time for the same reason, which is arguably incorrect.  It therefore makes sense and is a consensus matter for someone to remove them all at the same time.  Those who support the tag make the obvious assertion that the material is a form of trivia.  However, the party that removed them argues that popular culture references are the very subject of the cartoon series.  Covering the references made in an episode is akin to summarizing the plot, or the notable features of a product.  A tag having to do with sourcing might be more appropriate - some of the claims ought to be sourced, clearly a tedious project.  Whatever the outcome, deciding which tag to use if any is not an issue to settle on a case-by-case basis in each article, and I don't think it should be settled by administrative intervention.Wikidemo 22:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It was mass editing without discussion, rollback is completely appropriate. Admins need to address disruptive editing, and the rollback button exists for a reason. It is not a content dispute if the person will not discuss it, it is just stubborn editing. The tag simply calls for more investigation and attention, it is not a condemnation of an article. 1 != 2  23:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * There are two positions, one to add the tags and one to delete the tags. Deleting them is no more disruptive than adding them.  If added in a batch they can just as easily be deleted in a batch.  Those particular tags do not simply invite people to review; they condemn the content as deletable and ask people to remove it.  Both the proponent of the tags and the one who removed the tags made brief comments in the edit summary.  Is there any real indication of a refusal to discuss?  They can't be discussed on a case by case basis so the discussion would have to be at a central place.  Again, fodder for consensus discussion, not administrators taking sides.Wikidemo 23:06, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'd say that the triva tag is the wrong tag there. The problem with those sections is much of the content is original research; i.e. the editor and editors who added them are adding their own unsourced assertions and opinions on what cultural touchstones these scenes are referring to.  In my opinion at least that merits bold deletion of large tracts of that content rather than just tagging.  WP:TRIVIA is a controversial guideline, but WP:OR is a non-controversial policy that isn't being adhered to in the vast majority of the articles tagged.--Isotope23 talk 17:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

User:T3Smile
During a current DRV made what I consider a personal attack against  here. User:T3smile has now approach another editor and listed a number of article on talk page here. These are all articles that Smashville has either edited recently or created. I feel that independent admins should appraise themselves of the situation and comment as they see appropriate.

For the record I have also commented on the DRV and instigated WP:SSP after finding too many similarities between edits. Gnangarra 07:44, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Dear Gnagarra, in my travels I found these articles. It is perfectly OK to ask an admin as my opinion on notability has changed and some other articles should not make the cut either as the quality is Lo-Fi (noting one or more of these articles have been previously marked for deletion) - thanking you as inspiration to such. Are you of aboriginal origin? Or do you have a lot of time on your hands? cheers T --T3Smile 07:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Why would my ancestory be of any importance to this discussion execpt as an implied racial attack Gnangarra 07:59, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Gnagarra, I wasnt flashing a race card I was asking if you were, because you act as if you are not, and you have an aboriginal name here. Its just like assuming a guy named Yacob is of Jewish origin. Too Much Time methinks T.--T3Smile 08:05, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * "Thanking (Gnangarra) as inspiration" for finding articles created by an editor who opposed your views, then making a veiled threat to send them to AFD? That sounds very pointy, and if you do send any of them to AFD I would consider it disruptive. Now you have an admin's opinion. - Krakatoa  Katie  08:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow...um...hmm...I never expected that much attention...those are about as bad faith noms as it comes...two Breeders Cup Champs, a European Champ, two Triple Crown winners...I stand by my comment in the DRV. Mr. Chidiac admitted in one edit that he had supplied someone with a shoebox of info so that he may have an article written about himself. - Smashville 15:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * They havent been nominated yet, user Swerdnaneb acting in good faith has just given T3Smile instructions on how to do it diff. Gnangarra 15:25, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm aware...no issue whatsoever with Swerdnaneb. It's good info to have if someone decides to be a productive editor. Smashville 15:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * - Blocked as sockpuppet. See SSP Achidiac -- Jreferee    t / c  15:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Wyoming Panhandle and Colorado bootheel
created the above two articles on entirely non-existent geographical entities (speedy deleted under WP:CSD G1: nonsense articles). I've asked him to explain what he was doing, but the user refuses to explain. WP:HOAX states the creation of hoax articles can be considered a disturbance to the encyclopedia, and advises warning the user with uw-hoax, which I have done. Further input from the community is welcome. Firsfron of Ronchester 06:20, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think we need to do anything more here. -Jéské ( Blah v^_^v ) 06:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I would probably have let off with a warning as there do seem to be some constructive edits elsewhere. IMHO, the block seems borderline punitive but it's only for 24 hours so it's not a big deal either way. Ronnotel 16:07, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

A little help?
This section needs the hand of an uninvolved admin for Nobel Prize and Fred Thompson. -Jéské ( Blah v^_^v ) 06:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ugh, I've been beating up WP:RPP all day and avoided these on purpose. Can you sandbox the Fred Thompson edit, I've got no idea where to put it. <small style="background:#fff;border:#8b0000 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 07:04, 11/6/2007
 * I can't; the nature of what's been going on at the talkpages of both the article and the admin protecting it means that anyone there will seize on the opportunity to paint me as biased. -Jéské ( Blah v^_^v ) 08:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

User: Edokter on template pages
Edokter has made numorious edits to the fully protected Tnavbar page and corresponding edits to navbox. These are very-highly transcluded templates. The edit attempts are aimed at using the style parameter on the v-d-e links on that template to allow them to have colors. After being told that it was a bad idea with examples of CSS properties that would cause a rendering error which he dismissed as not being used in 99.9% of the cases. A week later he edits tnavbar, to add style and accounts only for the examples I mentioned. A user complains that his edits broke a template, and his edits were reverted. I complained, however, he fails to address the underlying issue that all CSS properties will need to be included inline into the template. It should be noted that the template uses fontcolor to set the colors of v-d-e.

His implementation of the style parameter represents an unacceptable use of resources as every CSS property will have to be set and for all 7 times instances each time. —Dispenser 07:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I've already moved the fontstyling out of the style parameter. Problem solved. — Edokter  •  Talk  • 14:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Emergency ArbComm case involving desysopping Eyrian
Per this CheckUser, it appears Eyrian has gone rogue, is a sockpuppet, or has created sockpuppets. Because of that, I have filed an emergency ArbComm case to get Eyrian desysopped. I'm bringing this up here for two reasons: one, to let the community know what is going on, and two, to possibly get a faster response, possibly through someone on IRC. <font face = "Trebuchet MS">Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) (public computer) 12:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * IIRC, Eyrian has already admitted publicly that that is his sock. User:Veesicle 13:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, your 'prevent vandalism' rationale on the RFCU seems a bit odd as Eyrian has not committed any acts of vandalism. User:Veesicle 13:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm seems my recollection was correct, see here. As the ArbCom is no doubt already aware of the issue I'm pretty sure your RFARB is more than a little pointless. User:Veesicle 13:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Should this perhaps be tacked on to the Alkivar case? The case is already blocking one editor as a sockpuppet of this JB196 guy. --W.marsh 13:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It already was brought up at that case. Personally I think the Eyrian thing should be split out into a separate case (not an emergency desysop, but looking at the allegations), but it really up to Arbcom if they are going to consider this as part of the Alkivar arbitration... maybe they will since Alkivar appears to have left the building.--Isotope23 talk 13:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Reviewing the case, it appears that the resolution was narrowly focused on Alkivar and JB196. I have to believe that since the Eyrian stuff was brought up a while back, Arbcom simply chose not to tack this on at that end.--Isotope23 talk 13:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * But both User:JohnEMcClure and User:Varlak were blocked as socks of User:JB196. Now they're mentioned in Requests for checkuser/Case/JohnEMcClure so, in my simple mind, that means User:Eyrian = User:JB196.  Why wouldn't Eyrian therefore fall under the umbrella of an Alkivar/JB196 RFAR?  —Wknight94 (talk) 14:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Am I the only one who sees the contradiction in the phrase "emergency ArbCom case?" Mr.  Z- man  14:42, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess the pertinent question would be, Did Durova block User:JohnEMcClure per WP:DUCK or per some rock solid evidence that User:JohnEMcClure = User:JB196? If checkuser confirmed User:JohnEMcClure = User:JB196 and User:JohnEMcClure = User:Eyrian, than you can make the easy logical connection there and I think a block/desysop is merited.  If check user just confirmed User:JohnEMcClure = User:Eyrian, but the sock block of User:JohnEMcClure was based on WP:DUCK, then I'd be uncomfortable with a speedy block/desysop in this case and personally I'd rather see a arbcom case looking into the sockpuppetry allegations and Morven's checkuser findings.--Isotope23 talk 14:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh wait... I see the connection now. User:Varlak = User:JB196 and blocked by Morven.  User:Eyrian = User:Varlak per the User:JohnEMcClure RFCU.  That is rather damning eh?  I'd like to get Morven's confirmation or comment on this.--Isotope23 talk 14:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It is all very confusing to keep track of who might be whom. Is anyone suggesting that Alkivar is a sock or was running any of these socks?  He was very forthcoming about his real life identity so, assuming his profile describes a real person and the account is really run by that person, it is not a fake account.Wikidemo 15:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think anyone is saying JB196 and Alkivar are the same person... I've added a statement requesting ArbCom clarify what the relationship is. I think "people who agree with eachother online" is probably the most likely explanation... but it's not good for stuff like this to be ambiguous. --W.marsh 15:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I've seen no evidence that Alkivar is in any way related to editing via these accounts.--Isotope23 talk 15:33, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

(outdent)Yes, JohnEMcClure was a WP:DUCK block; no, Alkivar is not suspected of running sockpuppets. Alkivar had other problems that related to JB196 in a different way. Durova Charge! 16:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * And to W.marsh, the Committee is filled with intelligent people who exercise good judgement. The conclusion they're reaching looks like WP:AGF concerns were well satisfied.  I freely declare that the bulk of my evidence was submitted privately, and with good reason: JB196 is a very determined, destructive, and persistent vandal who has created over 500 sockpuppets.  I don't intend to tip him off about my methods and teach him how to get better not only at manipulating this site, but at manipulating people.  Durova Charge! 17:03, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Comments re case
I don't see what the "emergency" is, but in light of ArbCom apparently declining to consider anyone but Alkivar and Burntsauce we'll have to ask separately whether they will undertake a case against, , , , and , and. has also been mentioned as a possible sockpuppet but alone among all of those implicated he denies it and is still with us. The Committee was considering Alkivar specifically. It could have considered the others given the intersection over the matter of contentious deletion of popular culture material. But it's also a fair call by ArbCom to decide that the real subject was Alkivar's administrative history, and the connection over this one incident wasn't great enough. Vandalism is not an unreasonable term. Blanking an article with no reason but WP:IDONTLIKEIT is vandalism. A sincere belief that Wikipedia is better without it is beside the point. You could make the same argument about blanking article sections. However, rather than getting hung up over terminology you can say that the harm to be avoided is edit warring over non-consensus, contentious deletion of content. One other option here is to avoid the trouble of an ArbCom case and simply block these users indefinitely as a mop-up operation. Most are blocked anyway and claim they left the project. Eyrian admitted to creating a disruptive sockpuppet, acted uncivilly, lied to the community (made claims via his puppet that contradicted what he knew to be the case), and left the project in a huff, none of which are compatible with being an administrator. Can't we just block him and say that if he ever wants to be unblocked he'll have to agree to a hearing about his account and his sysop at that time? Wikidemo 15:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Admins can unblock themselves. Except for ongoing vandalism (for which a Steward can issue an emergency desysop) only ArbCom can decide whether to desysop Eyrian.  How they choose to consider the case is up to them. Thatcher131 15:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Can meaning "have the technical ability to," admins are not allowed to undo valid blocks on themselves. If Eyrian is blocked and unblocks himself, then there may be a case for asking a steward. Mr.  Z- man  15:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

In clarification
There is absolutely no doubt that Eyrian == JohnEMcClure == Varlak. Both of the latter were blocked as JB196; however, the identification there is less certain. JohnEMcClure was blocked as JB196 based on behavior; I blocked Varlak based on a different checkuser that showed disruptive editing that looked like JB196 but I did not dig far enough on that occasion to tie to Eyrian. I can't conclude with certainty that JB196 is involved here. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 16:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification Morven!--Isotope23 talk 17:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

User - ΚέκρωΨ
This guy should be blocked for making Hateful comments.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Macedonia_%28terminology%29 "I'm sorry, but Skopjan nationalist websites hardly constitute reliable sources. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 13:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC) " The fact that he uses the work "Skopjan" is offensive and hateful! If he were to say that to a Macedonian in person he would get in a lot of trouble!

He has been harrasing me for the past two weeks with racist comments!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xstatik (talk • contribs)
 * Other than the choice of word, that is not a statement we can sanction him over. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 14:48, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Let's set the record straight. Skopjan is the term most commonly used by Greeks to refer to a member of the South Slavic ethnic group that self-identifies as "Macedonian". Because the term Macedonian is reserved in Greece for the (overwhelmingly Greek) inhabitants of the region of Macedonia, its use to describe the Slavic ethnic group is offensive to Greeks, including myself. The metonym Skopjan has therefore been coined as an alternative name, alluding to Skopje, the capital city of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. The term Skopjani is also used in the local language to describe the city's inhabitants. Its use is not intended to be derogatory. In fact, its entire raison d'être is to avoid offense. I have always respected the consensus in Wikipedia articles and at WP:MOSMAC and have avoided the term in articles, however talk pages are another matter entirely and all opinions may be expressed freely. Finally, I request that User:Xstatik be sanctioned for his/her personal attacks against me and his/her slanderous allegations to the effect that I have been harassing him/her; a look at my edit history reveals the exact opposite to be the case. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 15:08, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I've put in links supporting this. There is a long standing dispuite between Greeks and Macedonians. That is a fact. However, his insistent use of the term Skopjan is plain offensive and hateful. Skopjan refers to inhabitants of the Capital Skopje, not an entire nation. Macedonians have always been refered to as Macedonians in the Former Yugoslavia and in Greece prior to 1991. There are many souce links in the Talk pages that support this. Macedonians do regard the term as offensive and hateful. I for one, am deeply offended.

On top of this, he consistenly is censoring me in updating various articles and it's borderline harrassment! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xstatik (talk • contribs) 15:13, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Anonymous user deleting comments by another anonymous user
At Talk:Whirlpool (website) an anonymous IP address (124.168.196.117) is continually deleting comments made 6 months ago by a different anonymous IP (202.161.15.143). After the last deletion the new IP address claimed in his/her edit summary that the May comments were made by him/her but the two IP addresses are different so I'm not sure what the correct thing to do is. While the comments are not significant it doesn't seem right to me that one editor is deleting the comments of another without some way of verifying that they are allowed to do so. They may well be the same person but I have no way of determining that. --AussieLegend 14:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * WHOIS shows that both IPs are owned by the same ISP in the same area. Mr.  Z- man  15:02, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was a problem I saw. As I understand it those address pools are used Australia wide so it really doesn't help to narrow the user down. It could be any user of that ISP. --AussieLegend 15:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * They should not be removing comments, even if they made them. Its borderline disruptive and it can mess up a discussion, even if it is old. They don't own their contributions here. Mr.  Z- man  15:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Request Semi-Protection of Northport High School
I request semi-protection of the article Northport High School. If I understand correctly, this should prevent anonymous IP address edits, right? Not that this article hasn't had plenty of other past vandalism too, but the specific reason for my current request is the fifth time an anonymous IP address has added the non-notable vanity spam of "Dennis Oddsen, Class of 1967" to the list of notable alumni. Each of the previous reverts have been ignored and reversed. Below is a list of the five incidents in questions: --Fife Club 15:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) First edit from Special:Contributions/155.33.156.175
 * 2) Second edit from Special:Contributions/155.33.93.32
 * 3) Third edit from Special:Contributions/155.33.156.130
 * 4) Fourth edit from Special:Contributions/155.33.156.190
 * 5) Fifth edit from Special:Contributions/155.33.156.190
 * Sorry, we really need a higher rate of vandalism to justify semi-protection... usually at least 2-3 reverted IP edits a day. It might seem harsh to say "You just have to keep reverting", but consensus seems to be it's worth it to allow IP editing when vandal edits are relatively low. 5 in 10 days is higher than on many articles, but still lower than the threshold for semi-protection. Another admin may disagree. By the way, protection requests are best made at WP:RPP. --W.marsh 15:17, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Grave vandalism
User User:Whodoesthis does the following trick: He moves page to a different name, then creates a second page with the same name as the first, with an empty history. Anybody wanting to revert this has to find out first where he moved it... Then finds out that to keep the history, the new page has to be removed first :( I suggest an immediate block of this guy. Ratfox 15:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Blocked --W.marsh 15:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Could some admin remove this edit from history? Corvus cornix 18:17, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * ✅ <small style="background:#fff;border:#ccc 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 19:00, 11/6/2007

Repeated vandalism by Dans1120
Dans1120 frequently engages in both subtle and overt vandalism of this encyclopedia. I've included a short list of his most recent exercise in maintaining an attack page here, though his history reveals a number of intentional violations of Wikipedia policy. Dans1120 is also a member of the SomethingAwful Forums (username "dans," originally Dans1120) and often uses those forums to encourage other forum users to vandalize pages as well, as seen here. Cumulus Clouds 15:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see any vandalism. You wouldn't happen to also have stairs in your house, would you? <small style="background:#fff;border:#ccc 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 20:23, 11/6/2007

Parkinson's Disease
is being vandalised. I cannot revert / fix them. Please semi-protect three months. - Kittybrewster <font color="0000FF">&#9742;  17:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You might want to try WP:RFP. Cumulus Clouds 17:20, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Stop x nuvola with clock.svg User(s) blocked. - all should be well now. <small style="background:#fff;border:#090 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 17:52, 11/6/2007

User:XusSatyrtn, disruptive edits, possible sock of blocked user
Struck out pending new addition below. Powers T 03:52, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I am concerned about. His/her editing pattern consists of adding phrases using nonsense words beginning with "ba-" to articles. For example, he/she describes the fictional characters of Barney Fife (from The Andy Griffith Show), Jon Arbuckle (Garfield), and Bert (Sesame Street) as "doing ba-limp", with no explanation of what that means and insistent reversions when the information is removed ("leave it here and quit wasting my time").

(For the record, even Urban Dictionary has no idea what "ba-limp" means, so it apparently isn't even a protologism.)

I left a message on his/her talk page but then I discovered the editing pattern was similar to that of blocked user. also has similar edits. I have no conclusive proof, but if XusSatyrtn is Tip Ipp Ipp, he's circumventing his/her block and probably vandalizing to boot.

-- Powers T 00:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Given the evidence, it seems very likely that the user is a sockpuppet of User:Tip Ipp Ipp. I have idefinitely blocked the account. TigerShark 01:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Update: is taking up where XusSatyrtn left off. Powers T 03:52, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Snakese
I just blocked User:Snakese indef for this edit, which consisted of stalking and harrassment of another wikipedian. Thanks This is a Secret account 03:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems reasonable; I don't think it should be permanent, but that was inappropriate. "It's not stalking/trolling/vandalism when I do it. Just when they do." Has someone written an essay/guideline on this? In light of the past few days, especially in RfAs on female candidates, I think it's time to make this much clearer that this sort of thing should not be tolerated.--Thespian 03:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Last two sentences seem like a threat. Concerns that a person might be vulnerable to stalking should be communicated privately. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 04:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * How nasty. And .. well, generally WTF. Totally unneeded. We don't need people who are going to say things like that around here. I wouldn't want go too far on calling it a threat, or making this into an issue with respect to female candidates on rfa. ... but I don't see why this user should not remain blocked until there is some reason to believe that there will be no further behavior of that sort. --Gmaxwell —Preceding comment was added at 04:17, 6 November 2007

(UTC)
 * I can understand that; but the attempt to rattle me started out with an oily comment that my name was pretty, and this issue with LaraLove is starts out bringing up that she should spend more time with her children. I just spent some time looking over RfAs for editors whose gender is unknown, or who are known to be male, and this sort of thing isn't happening in them. Perhaps it has in the past, but right now, it's happened twice in a couple days in the RfAs of known females, and it should be watched for. --Thespian 04:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Endorse block. Appears to be a sock of Professional Deletionist (whose user talk redirects to Snakese's, actually). This kind of behavior is absolutely uncalled for. --Core<font color="#457541">desat 04:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I blocked the sockmaster User:The_Negotiator as well, per a private checkuser with Raul. Thanks This is a Secret account 04:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Snakese was actually a rename of Professional Deletionist after it was decided that the name was inappropriate under WP:USERNAME. It's not a sock, though that has nothing to do with other sock issues that might surround the account. --Thespian 04:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Does anybody think it is a reincarnation of that vandal whose name I won't mention, the one that's so bad he got banned from Wikipedia and WR? <small style="background:#fff;border:#8b0000 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. ;718 at 05:12, 11/6/2007
 * No, it's not him. Snakese's comments were stupid, not evil. Neil   ☎  10:07, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I wondered about that, myself, when I read those comments and Thespian's, remember that He Who Shall Not Be Named has also been known to make inappropriate comments to female editors. Corvus cornix 18:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Endorse block. Yes, I restored his vote on Thespian's RfA (for technnical reasons), but even then I had my suspicions about this user. Sad to see they were accurate. -- llywrch 07:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I endorse the block. This kind of disruption cannot be tolerated continually. -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 10:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * (Not an admin but) I think it's a good idea to stamp pretty hard on any kind of harassment of female RfA candidates. RfA is not supposed to be a trial by ordeal, and these two recent cases are worrying. Sheffield Steel talkstalk 23:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

User: Randy Blackamoor
Mr. Blackamoor used, what I interpreted, to be a slur in response to an edit that I was involved in on the National Academic Championship article (Talk: National Academic Championship). I deleted the statement, and issued a warning on his talk page (User Talk: Randy Blackamoor). Mr. Blackamoor responded on my talk page (User Talk: LonelyBeacon) with a personal attack, a questioning of my sexual orientation, and finally vulgar language. LonelyBeacon 05:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This is pretty messed up, especially after a polite personal message to cease incivility. 24 hour timeout. <small style="background:#fff;border:#ff8c00 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 07:08, 11/6/2007

I don't know if folks are aware, but "blackamore" is also an old-fashioned term for black person as well as a name. So if this is the case here...? <font color="#000000">WebHamste <font color="#0000ff">r 12:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Note also, for those in the USA, that in much of the English speaking world "Randy" is an adjective meaning "horny" . Reported to Usernames for administrator attention. Pete.Hurd 16:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, HBC AIV helperbot4 removed the posting to UAA (presumably because the user is blocked for editing offences) and so there seems no way to complain about the offensive username until the block has expired. Pete.Hurd 20:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

User:24.225.88.99
This user has made a habit of deleting large blocks of test or removing cited statements or adding untrue information to articles such as Grand Duchess Tatiana Nikolaevna of Russia and Anna Anderson and has continued to do so despite receiving three warnings. I think this address should be blocked. --Bookworm857158367 14:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * User blocked. I see you've given them 3 last warnings in less than an hour. In the future you can report a user to WP:AIV if they vandalize after only one last warning. AIV is a better place for reports like this and will get a faster result. Natalie 19:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

BLP issue on the main page - immediate attention required
I'm asking someone to remove immediately from DYK:

..that when Icelandic pop singer and D.J. Paul Oscar was in college he played Frank-N-Furter in a production of The Rocky Horror Picture Show and appeared in drag shows at a Reykjavík nightclub?

The sourcing in the article is clearly inadequate for the mainpage to carry it. Please take this off pending discussion. I've already removed BLP violations from the article Paul Oscar.

I really think we need to ban controversial statements about individuals from DKY.--Docg 15:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Whilst this type of thing might be adequately sourced for an article, the mainpage needs even higher criteria. Are DYK updaters thoroughly checking for BLP?--Docg 15:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Removed for now. I will readd it if A) someone can suggest a better sourced factoid from the article or B) someone can improve the sourcing for this one. As Doc glasgow says, the sourcing right now seems to be 2 random webpages. By the way it's DYK, not DKY... and this is the second time there's been a BLP issue in a week. --W.marsh 15:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I strongly suggest that NO factoids about living people should ever be on DYK, especially ones that might be controversial unless at a minimum they've been passed by more than one senior editor. An outright ban might be better. By its nature we have here a recent article, which may not have been subject to proper scrutiny, nominated by one user (often its creator) and then listed by another - and suddenly it becomes VERY prominent. It is just an open goal for bad things to happen. Now, it may turn out that this allegation will check out, but let's not wait until real shit happens to put a safeguard in place.--Docg 15:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The place for this proposal is WT:DYK. But noms are screened for 5 days on T:TDYK already... a reasonable objection, including one on BLP grounds, will almost always keep a nom from appearing on the main page. --W.marsh 15:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the third one that's had to be removed in a number of days. Whilst I think generally speaking the process runs well, and I trust the admins that do the work and comment on the hooks, I think it's time to make it clear that when putting a DYK nom on the main page, it should never portray a person in a negative manner.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  15:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The current screening is obviously insufficient. It isn't enough to say "no one objected" we need to be able to say "checked thoroughly, and we have no doubts here". This issue is of concern to more than the DYK crowd.--Docg 15:29, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily, but this conversation should be moved to WT:DYK to try to reach a longer-term solution... the immediate problem needing admin attention is resolved, no? I'll start a thread on that talk page. --W.marsh 15:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * (EC) " when putting a DYK nom on the main page, it should portray a person in a negative manner" I know that's just a wording goof, but that's a really funny proposal you're making there, Mr. Postlewaite. --W.marsh 15:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * hehe, I think it's best if I just go back to bed!  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  15:32, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

(outdent) We should definitely be careful about BLP concerns in DYK, since it's one of the most-seen aspects of the site. But this particular discussion is bothering me a little -- everyone's acting like this statement says something inherently negative about its subject, which seems a bit judgmental! Pinball22 16:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. But BLP has assume that we don't say things that are potentially negative or embarrassing if they turn out to be not true. To give an example - many people are out and proud to be gay. Wikipedia would certainly not wish to reflect a POV that said gay is negative. But the fact is that many people would find it insulting, or indeed damaging or even culturally life-threatening, to be called gay. Thus we require cast-iron sourcing before including any such allegation - without prejudice to the views of the subject. --Docg 16:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

This issue is now being debated at: Wikipedia talk:Did you know. Please opine there. --Docg 16:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

User:ForeignerFromTheEast
First of all, I apologize for not knowing how to link to the user's contributions or the (diff) list. However, this user's editing consists overwhelmingly of adding Bulgarian to articles related to Macedonia as well as adding Bulgarian and Albanian names to those articles and removing foreign language names from Bulgarian articles. He is very antagonistic and his edits and reverts are often criticised heavily on article talk pages and his own talk page (he deletes most criticism left on his talk page, however). He has a history of being involved in edit and revert warring for which he was blocked in September. Would it be possible to issue a stern warning or block him for a couple of days just to get him to calm down? Thanks.SWik78 16:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Please read NPA. ForeignerFromTheEast 18:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I have read it. I'm criticizing the content of your edits and your persistance in adhering to a practice of antagonizing other editors. I'm not criticizing you personally, if that's what you're implying.SWik78 18:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I delete comments from my talk which I find offensive, and this is perfectly fine. About the rest of the mud-smearing, I am clueless. ForeignerFromTheEast 18:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Any appearence of "mud-smearing" is completely unintentional, I promise. I'm referring to your recent edits on articles such as: Struga, Tose Proeski, Skopje, Grebenac, Razlog, Gotse Delchev (town), Petrich, Blagoevgrad, Taga za Jug etc. So far, I've been under the impression that these kinds of edits do not sit well with certain editors, mostly ones of Macedonian origin, and yet you keep editing them in such a manner that can be seen by another editor as disrespectful. User:Dzole explained this to you in a tone that was somewhat aggravated but still respectful on your talk page but you deleted it. SWik78 18:32, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I try to motivate my edits, and I really do not understand what you are insinuating. ForeignerFromTheEast 19:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not insinuating anything, I am explicitly stating a fact that most of your edits consist of nothing more than changes to or addition of nationally identifying pieces of information that have been historically proven to be not welcome by many of your fellow editors. In other words, if you look at the history pages and talk pages of the articles I mentioned above, you will notice that most of your changes contributed only in the form of identifying someone nationally, or adding the name of a place in one language or deleting the name of a place in another language. My issue is that you should be able to clearly see that there are people who are not OK with these changes you make and, as a responsible Wikipedia editor, you should not ignore someone else's frustration when they are not able to contribute to an article like Skopje that was protected to editors several times because of edit warring in which, I might add, you were involved and you were blocked from Wikipedia because of it. In other words, simply adding Bulgarian in front of Konstantin Miladinov's name in Struga Poetry Evenings, repetitive adding of SR in front of Macedonia and SFRJ after it in Tose Proeski, as well as repetitive adding of Albanian language as an official language in Skopje is not seen welcome by some of the other editors on these articles. In an explicit conclusion, these kinds of edits are fueling nationallistically motivated edit and revert warring incidents. I hope this explains things a little better. SWik78 20:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You are still insinuating, as you are using terms such as someone being OK and not OK. Whatever. I have sources and/or relevant policies and guidelines to support my contributions and I will discuss whenever possible. Everything else is speculation. ForeignerFromTheEast 21:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I have a hard time believing you don't understand what I'm trying to say and you're not fooling anyone by just using the word insinuate, as though I'm not explaining myself properly. Either way, keep doing the things that I insinuate you're doing and I will keep informing the proper authorities of any future disruptions by you. By the way, if you have anything else to say, you're welcome say it on my talk page so we don't disrupt this noticeboard. SWik78 21:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem, I'm glad this is sorted out. ForeignerFromTheEast 21:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with SWik78. ForeignerFromTheEast (formerly known as Mr. Neutron) together with several other Bulgarian editors, who also frequently change their usernames (example: Wickedpedian=GriefForTheSouth=Jackanapes), is indeed involved in a blatant POV pushing and meatpuppeteering. Also, they try to sneak-in questionable sources such as private blogs or personal nationalist websites (kroraina.com), thus damaging the reliability of Wikipedia. Several times such behaviour led to protests from the editors from Republic of Macedonia, and in some cases also third party editors became involved. All that led to high tensions followed by admin interventions, vandal retaliations and finally page protections. I already publicized this issue with a detailed explanation on one of the appropriate pages for solving such problems. I will follow the steps suggested by Wikipedia guidelines and as part of that maybe I'll move the problem to this page too (if its not solved before that elsewhere). --Dzole 04:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

User:24.62.241.203
This seems to be a vandalism account only. There have been several hundred unconstructive edits (several today) from this user and he's been handed out 9 blocks so far.SWik78 17:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Handled, please consider reporting these things to WP:AIV in the future. <small style="background:#fff;border:#090 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 17:51, 11/6/2007
 * Will do. Thank you.SWik78 18:07, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Not resolved. How does a 24 hour block help in circumstances where this same IP has been blocked multiple times, for up to 2 months and 5 fortnights?  Corvus cornix 18:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comcast uses swiftly rotating IPs... chances are that a new person will have this within a couple days. If you want to go ahead and slap a lengthy softblock on it, that's up to you. <small style="background:#fff;border:#daa520 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 18:58, 11/6/2007
 * No, since I'm not an admin, I can't slap a lengthy block on anybody. But it's obvious from the edit and block histories of this account, that there is a serial vandal here, 24 hours is like a slap on the wrist.  Why even bother blocking?  Corvus cornix 19:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I must agree with Corvus cornix. Vandalism from that particular IP goes back to January 2005 without a single positive contribution that I could find. I think that the risks of banning a potential new user at this IP is worth the benefit of relief of an immense amount of vandalism. We're talking literally hundreds of instances of vandalism over almost 3 years. Just look at all the warnings on User talk:24.62.241.203. SWik78 19:48, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but this IP is assigned to different people in rapid succession... if we're going go down this route, we should be discussing the merits of a rangeblock on Comcast, because it will have the same effect. <small style="background:#fff;border:#090 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 20:19, 11/6/2007
 * Something seems wrong here; either (a) this IP is not rapidly reassigned to different people, or (b) all the contributions are not vandalism, or (c) every WP editor ever assigned that IP by Comcast is a vandal. Is everyone sure of their facts?  Because (c) is the only possibility if Corvus and East718 are both correct, and it just seems the most unlikely of the three possibilities. --barneca (talk) 20:29, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * (d) only one user that was ever assigned that IP has decided to edit Wikipedia SWik78 20:40, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * (e.c.) When I had Comcast as my ISP (up till about five months ago), my IP was very stable, and I could treat it as a de facto static IP. I was in one of their not-yet-modernized areas, so the fast-switching may be only happening in areas covered by their newer infrastructure.  I agree that this IP is problematic and probably should be presumed stable for the purposes of preventative blocking.  <font color="#285991">--Dynaflow   <font color="#285991">babble  20:41, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * East is correct here. If you actually look at the contributions, you'll see that each "vandalism session" lasts a day or two; any further vandalism comes on completely dissimilar articles, and in most cases, months apart.  That's the model of a dynamic IP that should not have a lengthy block applied.  Just because the few customers that have been assigned that IP that have edited WP have done so to vandalize does not mean that future IP holders will do the same.  — bbatsell   ¿?   ✍  20:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So then in between those day or two long sessions of vandalism, have there been any positive contributions from anyone else that was ever assigned that IP? SWik78 20:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No, but that doesn't mean there couldn't possibly be... I do however agree with your sentiments about persistent vandalism. If anybody doesn't object, I'm going to put a long softblock on it. <small style="background:#fff;border:#008080 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 21:05, 11/6/2007
 * The "months apart" was because this IP was blocked months at a time. <small style="background:#fff;border:#008080 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 21:05, 11/6/2007
 * (e.c., again) I actually believe East is incorrect on this count. The IP's vandalism binges seem to start at random times, but their ends are always coincident with the block.  What I'm seeing is a user who occasionally gets bored and decides to stir shit up on Wikipedia, "edits" via the Random Article button until he or she gets blocked, and then ... I dunno ... goes out and throws rocks at cars or something.  When boredom strikes again x period of time later, the pattern repeats.  Comcast IPs can be stable.  For example, this is me before I got a username (and occasionally afterwards); there are months of edits from my one IP, which even survived multiple modem restarts.  My WHOIS page reads exactly the same way as this IP's.  <font color="#285991">--Dynaflow   <font color="#285991">babble  21:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Good call. I also was initially fooled by the long breaks in between vandalism, and the wide variety of articles. I also did a little research and found out that Comcast does in fact assign IP addresses for a long period of time. I've extended the block on this account, thank you all for the help provided. <small style="background:#fff;border:#ccc 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 21:09, 11/6/2007
 * You're welcome. <font color="#285991">--Dynaflow   <font color="#285991">babble  21:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * From the contributions I would say that this is undoubtedly a static school IP. The mentions of billy, katie, tyler, kyle, and adam, and the fixation with sex is unmistakeable. (Billy appears in April and October). These crop up frequently at AIV. -- zzuuzz (talk) 21:08, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks East. SWik78 21:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you, east. Corvus cornix 21:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism only IP
The following is vandalising again after a long history of warnings and a block. It's not current, so reporting on AIV is inappropriate. The vandalism is increasingly taking the course of subtle factual inaccuracies that are difficult to disprove and hence, are being left in articles. -- John 18:44, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * A quick snoop shows that it belongs to the University of Plymouth, which explains the mix of edits. Given the block history and their current run, I've blocked the address, anon only, for one month - A<font color= "#FF7C0A">l<font color= "#FFB550">is o n  ❤ 19:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

User:MellowVoltorb
I've given this user a vandalism warning for their antics at Chelsea F.C. today. However, looking at the abusive language on the user page User:MellowVoltorb, the fact that the edit history contains no good faith edits and how this user has abused another editor on their talk page, I wonder whether administrative action should be considered.--Peter cohen 18:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * User has been blocked indefinitely by an admin. For future reference, the place where this will get the most and quickest attention is WP:AIV. Cheers, <font face="Monotype Corsiva" size="3">Qst 19:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

210.54.245.44/Rabidly Placid: edit warring
User:210.54.245.44 seems to have created the user name Rabidly Placid in order to evade the 3RR rule on The X-Files. (I am uninvolved in the content dispute. I merely note that it is taking place and made one reversion on the basis of the attempted evasion of WP:3RR.) --Pleasantville 19:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If you file a report on WP:AN3, just note that s/he's the IP address too. --Haemo 19:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Could someone else please step in here?
Special:Contributions/137.99.117.114 (also Special:Contributions/137.99.155.80) definitely has made constructive edits but on Don't ask, don't tell (Gays in the US military policy) has removed LGBT and Gay Rights templates here and here. I left a note on User talk:137.99.117.114 and the reply was ''Suck my nuts man. There is absolutely no connection between the article and the group. You can plug you gay agenda elsewhere. Who the fuck are you?'' I'd prefer someone else step in rather than me being personally involved at this point. Benjiboi 19:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've replaced the attack on their talk page with an npa warning. We'll see what happens. Natalie 19:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Benjiboi 19:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone just AFD'ed yesterday's featured article. Most of the user's contributions have been reverted and IMHO vandalism for the most part. Would someone tell me I am not smoking crack here to think this is bad faith? <small style="background:#ccc;border:#000 1px solid;padding:0 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap;"><font color="#000">spryde | <font color="#000">talk  20:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's probably someone who doesn't like the subject. It's going to be snowing today.  --Haemo 20:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What a waste of time, I've gone ahead and closed it. <small style="background:#fff;border:#800080 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 20:16, 11/6/2007

David Vitter edit warring
User:Anothersliceofhistory edited the David Vitter article with statements that are POV and unsourced. After I reverted, User:Araphel then made the identical change. Then, after reverting a second time, Anothersliceofhistory blanked out the entire section. After reverting that, User Araphel blanked out the section a second time. I've run out of reverts and the section stands deleted. This is a solidly sourced section that was noteworthy. So, if I could get another editor to revert it back, I'd appreciate it. &#8756; Therefore | talk 20:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * KoshVorlon reverted it. I thought about applying a semi-protect, but both users have been around a while with occcasional edits but no user pages. -- llywrch 23:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Pre-empting the inevitable complaint
I've semi-protected the spam & OR magnet that is Rating sites due to repeated insertion of a spam link by. Usually I'd block the IP rather than protect the page, but in this case - since the IP seems to be making valid edits elsewhere & no-one's edited Rating sites recently - I've (briefly) protected the page instead. Can someone else confirm if I'm acting wildly against some policy I'm unaware of here, as I'm aware the whole thing's a bit irregular. For the record I explicitly won't consider anyone reversing any of this to be wheel-warring. As I've reverted the spammer three times, could I ask anyone who does unprotect it to watchlist it.<font face="Trebuchet MS"> — <font color="#E45E05">iride <font color="#C1118C">scent  20:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

If anyone feels the urge to clean up some of the ever-expanding linkfarm on this page, do feel free... I long ago gave up on my increasingly desultory attempt to keep Rating sites and Hot or Not in any kind of stable state.<font face="Trebuchet MS"> — <font color="#E45E05">iride <font color="#C1118C">scent  20:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say unprotect and give the user his last warning, if he does it again, block--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 20:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Eh, 2 days of semi-protection is no big deal and probably the way to go. It looks like the vast majority, if not all, IP edits going back 6 months or so were non-constructive and/or vandalism. MastCell Talk 21:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * On a closer look at the contribs I agree - what I thought were valid contribs which made me reluctant to block were in fact made in June. The 1-2-3-4 warnings have already been given (you need to look in the history as the IP's blanked the talk page); I'll leave it semi'd for 48 hours unless anyone feels otherwise. Can someone watchlist the page so I don't break 3RR (although given the amount of spammy links already there, not sure it matters — www.douchebag.com, anyone?)<font face="Trebuchet MS"> — <font color="#E45E05">iride <font color="#C1118C">scent  21:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I am so glad you finished that. I had no clue where you were going with that last part... :) <small style="background:#ccc;border:#000 1px solid;padding:0 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap;"><font color="#000">spryde | <font color="#000">talk  21:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Should have left it, really...<font face="Trebuchet MS"> — <font color="#E45E05">iride <font color="#C1118C">scent  21:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Is this permitted?
Just stumbled across this - while googling for a copyvio on the recently created Mark Pharis article. While he acknowledges the source as wikipedia there's no sign of a GFDL license and we have "Copyright 2006 Mark W. Savoca" at the bottom of the page. Can we/should we block this use? Exxolon 21:32, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Um, isn't it just syndicating this feed? <small style="background:#fff;border:#800080 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 21:37, 11/6/2007
 * Okay, I'll ask, who do you want to block? The info on the site you linked says:  What is Feedage?  Feedage is a free fully categorized and searchable RSS directory. More...   MyFeedage allows users to create and manage groups of RSS feeds.  Join or login to Myfeedage today and start your social feeding.  Who exactly are you going to block and what did they violate?  RSS feeds are everywhere. IrishLass0128 21:42, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The article is definitely NOT a copyvio (at least not one stealing from feedage.com). That page is as stated above simply showing an RSS feed of special:newpages. The copyright information page on that site also states that feedage does not claim copyright to material on preview pages such as the one you linked to. Fun  Pika  21:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's fine. I was worried that the site might be attempting to claim copyright on our content. If they disclaim it, fine. A GFDL notice on the feed might be an idea tho. Exxolon 22:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Heh. Clicking on that led me to Seanblashe. :) Corvus cornix 21:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Additional Admin Help Please - Copyright violations
I was patrolling CAT:G12 when I noticed several copyright violating pages created by a single user. I've User talk:Soulofrock the user for an hour - should it be a longer block?

All are coming from the Marvel Wiki. While the Marvel Wiki is a wiki, it is not a GFDL wiki; Marvel's contributions remain under Marvel's copyright and anybody else's are not releases under a suitable license, see paragraphs 1 and 6 of their terms.

I don't have time to clean them all up. They are all in his contribution history of today. I've noticed that just prior to each article, he has uploaded an image that is a copyright violation of the same source. Can I get some administrator help in cleaning up the copyright violations. I suspect this user's contributions from prior days also need to be reviewed. GRBerry 22:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, maybe I slightly overreacted on the scope of work. I've gotten the blatant ones from today done.  The situation does need a more full investigation as to whether any of the older edits are also copyright problems.  I'm off for a while.  GRBerry 22:40, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism/edit war on George Mason University
User:Gmu1987, a single purpose, borderline vandal editor has been consistently adding content to George Mason University which simply demeans the school, or indicates most people confuse it with James Madison University. The content was originally added to the article by an anon editor who specializes in tending to the JMU article. As a frequent contributor to the GMU article, and as a graduate of GMU, I believe my hands are pretty tied in dealing with this. Rather than simply block Gmu1987, I took to the matter to the article's talk page, and with the help of three other editors gained consensus on what content should remain or be removed. Gmu1987 has ignored the consensus, and regularly accused myself and others of vandalism while reverting in bad faith. Because I am involved in the edit conflict itself (which has progressed very slowly all the way back to August), I just wanted someone else to take a look at this, and decide on how to deal with this editor. Personally, I think a block is in order. Likewise, if this is an instance where I can make the block on my own, just let me know. Thanks! Hiberniantears 00:35, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I have left a warning about 3RR and edit warring.  I will caution you here, though, that you should not be edit warring either, and you would face the same sanctions if you broke the Three-revert rule.  As I found out fairly early in my Wikipedia career, "enforcing" consensus is not a legitimate excuse for edit warring, so I will pass this advice along to you: If you have a consensus on the page, then let the others with whom you've built consensus do their share of reverting this user's problematic edits.  Have you gone through the steps of Dispute resolution fully yet?  [EDIT:] I just realized who you are; I actually thought I was addressing  for some reason, probably because I was looking through the page history when I was writing my reply.  I see that you have already warned the user, though he or she has since removed the warning from his or her Talk page.  Since the user has continued to edit war despite being warned, I would support a block for 3RR under the clause that allows blocks for persistent edit warring even if the 3RR electric fence isn't technically touched.  <font color="#285991">--Dynaflow   <font color="#285991">babble  01:47, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ryulong has issued the block. <font color="#285991">--Dynaflow   <font color="#285991">babble  02:26, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the third party assistance! Hiberniantears 03:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi all, without knowing that any warnings had been issued to User:Gmu1987, I just added content to the Talk:George Mason University page on this issue, supporting User:Bvjrm's efforts. I then went to User:Gmu1987's talk page to request he engage in the discussion rather than keep reverting.  Only after I saved my comment to his talk page did I realize that someone had already started a noticeboard/incident report on it.  FWIW, I have not, to my knowledge, been involved in any of the reverts of the recurring information; but I have weighed in on the GMU talk page with my opinion.  Hope that clarifies my (limited) involvement. N2e 03:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)