Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive369

Trying to avoid 3RR for gratuitous gender comments in Code Pink
24.34.131.179 has twice inserted "a transgender peace activist" into the Code Pink article, following text already identifying an individual as an activist. Gender identification is not relevant to a political article, but I have reverted it twice and don't want to violate 3RR.

On the Talk: Code Pink page, 24.34.131.179 has overwritten some of my response and is being generally confrontational. Clearly, anything I say will have little effect on someone so intent on having his/her/its way. Might I ask an Admin to review these actions and determine if they qualify as vandalism, and, as such, a 3RR exception?

Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 21:37, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have commented at the article talkpage. I suggest you form a consensus that including one aspect of the individuals background, one that appears irrelevant, is inappropriate. While there is just the two of you (plus my opinion, for what it is worth) it is a content dispute. Kudos for standing back from 3RR and requesting outside help. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:37, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Another look
Would another admin or two take a look at the recent block involving User talk:David Shankbone? Specifically, I'm quite confident in my assessment that modifying the section heading another person added to a talk page over their objections is just like having edited one of their comments, and is (1) bad form, and (2) certainly bad to edit-war over. But Shankbone doesn't seem to believe this. Also, offered an opinion on the situation but then hasn't responded to a note I left him. Mango juice talk 22:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I haven't looked too deeply into the context of what these people were quarreling over, but in general I'd disagree with your assessment of the section heading issue. Changing section headings is not so uncommon, it can be part of legitimate refactoring. Since section headings, as a structuring textual device, are not really part of one particular post, but are designed to be a shared feature structuring all the following thread, they really cease to "belong" to the individual editor who first posted them, and become more like a common property of all the users of the talk page. Especially when a section heading is felt to be offensive or needlessly inflammatory, replacing it with something more neutral seems legitimate to me. At least, I did it myself just the other day. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I previously concurred with the block at an earlier section (here); DS ought to know by now that simply getting into revert wars is inappropriate, no matter how justified he believes his position to be (and that has also been a bone of contention in the past). LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:42, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * As I just noted above, I unblocked David a bit ago. I left a fairly long message on his talk page.
 * While it's not necessarily wrong to refactor talk page comments, that's not what happened. The first revert cycle can legitimately be seen as that, but then David and Yorkshirian simply see-sawed the contents back and forth several times.  It was classic revert war / edit war behavior, though I had apparently miscounted the 3RR check / time period.
 * I even agree with David that the original section heading was unnecessarily provocative. The problem was David getting down in the dirt and fighting over it, rather than calling for help and having someone uninvolved try to reason with him or bring the fifty-ton mop of civility down on them.  That rapidly degenerated into both sides having done wrong.  Who started it is slightly relevant (and accounted for a longer initial block), but both sides clearly misbehaved.
 * More of my comments can be found on User talk:David Shankbone
 * Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 02:57, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

important

 * I filed this report Abuse_reports/68.90.62.244 on 3 Feb 2008 regarding the long term vandal user:Mmbabies. Is there thing the Foundation or Mr. Jimbo can do to speed up the process of getting law enforcement involved to prosecute this joker. He has been harassing people for over a year since Feb 12 2006 ; he has made death threats against VIPS, and wikipedia users. Can someone inform the board of the Foundation or Mike Godwin, the lawyer . I think a admin needs to see the abuse report. Thank for your time Rio de oro (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 22:53, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Can someone respond Rio de oro (talk) 01:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's much we can do, until someone responds to the abuse e-mails. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 03:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

They started with Katherine Heigl and later went to Category:German-Americans and Category:Americans of German descent. Other odd edits include Leopold Katzenstein and David Letterman. Not really sure if this is vandalism or just a POV or something else. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 23:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Their Talk page is a red link. Try talking first.   Corvus cornix  talk  00:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Second that, maybe just communicating with the user will solve the problem without the need of administrators. Tiptoety  talk 00:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I welcomed the IP user, and noted WP:POV. Bearian (talk) 01:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

User:AkiKimura99
is repeatedly removing an unsourced tag from the article they're working on. I gave them four warnings, including a final warning, and they keep removing the warnings from their talk page, which is okay, except that looking through the history of their talk page, they've already had a final warning for the same behavior about a month ago. They never use Talk pages, never use edit summaries, and never address the concerns of other editors. And now they've given themself a whole slew of barnstars, signing them with other editors' names.  Corvus cornix talk  05:22, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Took care of it. A 31 hour block is in place to get his attention.  If he returns with teh same behavior, let me or other admins know, and it will be replaced with a longer one.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  05:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This user copied a barnstar that I awarded to User:Nlu and placed it on his talk page. For the record, I have no idea who AkiKimura99 is and never awarded him any barnstars. Grandmaster (talk) 05:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I removed all of the bogus barnstars from the talk page. All taken care of.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  05:45, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The one from Nlu was legit. I've restored that one.   Corvus cornix  talk  05:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

SA and WP:HARASSMENT/WP:OVERSIGHT
User:ScienceApologist has googled my user name and is insisting on posting an off-wiki link that reveals an off-wiki pseudonym. A clear violation of WP:OVERSIGHT and WP:HARASSMENT. Can someone please put a stop to this? Ronnotel (talk) 20:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Jimbo comments on Mantanmoreland and Gary Weiss.
This discussion has been moved to Administrators' noticeboard/Mantanmoreland.


 * For the record, I did not say that Mantanmoreland is in fact Gary Weiss. I have investigated that claim repeatedly and I have been unable to find any proof of it.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 07:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * For the record, immediately after you claim this here you say My saying at one point that I believed Mantanmoreland to be Gary Weiss is not a smoking gun or anything like one. WAS 4.250 (talk) 10:31, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That is exactly the same thing, and it is exactly right. I have never said that Mantanmoreland is in fact Gary Weiss.  I have said that I believed it at a point in time.  There is a huge difference between saying that something is a fact, versus saying that I believed it.  Belief, knowledge, not the same thing.  I have been completely clear about this on multiple occassions.  To this day, I have no proof that it is true.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 02:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * However, that you believed it would seem to indicate that it was a reasonable thing to suspect, and that people shouldn't have been considered "proxying for a banned user" just for voicing that suspicion. —Random832 14:40, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Maintenance tag vandalism

 * see Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard
 * see Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive365

Maintenance tag vandalism using sock IP's on National Policing Improvement Agency
 * 09:11, 12 February 2008- -17:52, 12 February 2008- -17:57, 12 February 2008- -18:03, 12 February 2008- -10:53, 14 February 2008- -14:16, 14 February 2008- -14:50, 14 February 2008- -15:17, 14 February 2008- -15:17, 14 February 2008

Maintenance tag vandalism using sock IP's on Serious Organised Crime Agency
 * 09:12, 12 February 2008- -17:52, 12 February 2008- -17:55, 12 February 2008- -17:57, 12 February 2008- -17:59, 12 February 2008- -18:03, 12 February 2008- -18:05, 12 February 2008- -18:07, 12 February 2008- -10:54, 14 February 2008- -14:17, 14 February 2008- -14:51, 14 February 2008

works for the NPIA, see. Despite being invited to the discussion on COI/N, The account and IP's continue to edit, and have have persistently removed the maintenance tags (see above), despite the fact that he/she is infact the one with the conflict. Input please.--Hu12 (talk) 15:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Bamford does seem most insistent about that tag. I'll drop him a note. Cheers, Jack Merridew 15:18, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, we have all tried to communicate but with little result, hopefully you'll have better luck--Hu12 (talk) 15:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If he removes the maintenance tags again, I would endorse a block. After numerous notes from multiple editors, it looks like Bamford just does not "get it."  --Kralizec! (talk) 18:34, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd endorse a block along the same lines. WP:AGF has its limits and this editor(s) is clearly pushing them.  MBisanz  talk 18:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Same here, also I left him a note on his talk page.   Compwhiz II ( Talk )( Contribs )  19:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I seriously doubt you are going to extract any change of heart from this editor. They are not interested in community editing because they are certain they are the only source of the truth. I suggest that they are blocked, the socks recorded, and a checkuser run. If it proves that the editor is using the facilities of the establishment that is the subject of the article then a little email to the management might be in order... LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:56, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Blocked
Bamford ignored the various warnings, reverted the articles in question back to his preferred version, and issued a rather scathing reply. As such, I have blocked Bamford for 31 hours for his continuing disruptive editing. --Kralizec! (talk) 22:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This series of 25 edits to his talk page have me completely baffled. They appear to consist of adding four pp-semi-vandalism and fourteen COI2 tags.  While these ten edits appear to be the standard variety of rant against the injustice of following Wikipedia's official policies and guidelines (or so I presume - TLDR), I do not understand why even a disgruntled editor would add pointless maintenance tags to their talk page.  --Kralizec! (talk) 18:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

User with multiple IPs keeps deleting the same material
The Illuminati article is having difficulty with a persistant vandal. I reported the situation to ANI-Vandalism, but they have said the situation is not blaitant enough and referred me here. This is the situation... On January 31, an IP user:189.30.110.198 deleted some material from the article without explanation... I reverted and requested discussion on the talk page (see:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Illuminati&diff=next&oldid=181216241 this dif.). The IP responded with a rather strange edit: here, which led to the following chain of edits and reverts:, , , and  ... note the change of IP address... same prefix though. At this point the editor (logged in as User:Edictorwikicentral) did respond on the talk page... seehere. To that point, I would not have called these edits vandalism. We had a content dispute, which several editors attempted to resolve in the appropriate way. However, the removal of the content has continued - to the point where it now is vandalism... The editor simply removes the content with no explanation (see: here, here, and most recently here.) In each case we reverted and tagged the user page with a vandalism warning... but because he/she uses a slightly different IP address each time, the vandalism warnings that have been mounting up are defused. Because he/she only reverts occasionally, it isn't a case for ANI-Vandalism or 3rr.

I doubt it would be appropriate to simply block the entire 189.30... IP range, but is there anything that can be done to convince this vandal to stop deleting the content? Blueboar (talk) 03:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not an admin, but my suggestion would be to request semi-protection to keep the IPs from editing so you can focus on the content dispute without interference from users who aren't logged in. --clpo13(talk) 05:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Guess it already is semi-protected. Never mind. --clpo13(talk) 05:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Semi-protection helps... but does not solve the problem. The IP editor in question just waits for the protection to be lifted and repeats his/her deletion. Blueboar (talk) 13:50, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Continued harassment by Propol
I have getting tagged by this out of control editor with delusions of socks on his head. I have warned him four times, and he continues to harass me with is war of tagging my my user space with is sock puppet BS.    

If he think I'm a sock then let him file, but just unilaterally placing tags on editors talk pages is just a form of bulling and harassment. I think someone should stop this rude and childish punk. Propol appears to have a long, and uncontrolled reputation of this and needs to be disciplined as to the rules. This child is out of control?Oldschooltool (talk) 07:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, this appears to be in bad faith. If the user felt strongly about his/her accusations, then they should have filed a sockpuppet case involving your conduct with a list of diffs as evidence. Since this has not been done, it could be construed as trolling (at the very least). Did you attempt to mediate the situation on his talk page beyond the level 4 warning you gave him/her? Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 07:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I have left a message on the user's talk page regarding the situation. Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 07:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Urgent! Sri Lanka - moved / hacked
This article has somehow been moved/hacked to a page entitled Sri Lanka - hacked by Bleezhulk. This user has been vandalizing a number of pages in a similar way, see. This user needs to be blocked.--Gregalton (talk) 09:21, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * User blocked by Riana, articles moved back and deleted redirects created by the moves. Thanks for the heads up! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 09:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

For immediate attention
Could we get a block on this IP immediately. User talk:86.134.94.232. See these edits:

    

I tried a level three abuse warning, but this just escalated things. I hope this is the correct place to report such problems. Cheers Nouse4aname (talk) 09:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Blocked. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:57, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much. Nouse4aname (talk) 10:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

New IP!
It seems a broader block may be required. Is this possible?

User talk:86.134.94.204



Nouse4aname (talk) 10:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Iced him. east. 718 at 10:18, February 15, 2008
 * It's a dynamic IP from a large block owned by a British ISP, so I'm afraid a range block wouldn't be feasible. Please just bring it up on WP:AIV if it acts up again. (Tell them it's a block-evading repeat offender so they won't be asking you for prior warnings and stuff.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:21, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks all. Nouse4aname (talk) 10:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

has received two lasts warning
User:Bubbleshum received a last warning about making nonsense pages and he deleted it from his talk page, and has now received *another* last warning for making yet another nonsense page with related thematic. First page was John Iliston, and second page is Ilistonitis, and both were speedily deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Enric Naval (talk • contribs) 11:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * He's already blocked --Enric Naval (talk) 11:21, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Numbered user
Resolved. This user has been changing with original research or simply non at all a great number pages.80.78.74.88.Megistias (talk) 11:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC) The user continues Despite being warned that what he is doing it against the rules.Megistias (talk) 11:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This can be handled at Talk:Ioannis Kapodistrias. No need for ANI. (Although another pair of eyes from an uninvolved admin might be useful, now that it's here.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You can't say "see discussion" in the article (see what discussion?). You need to cite|cite a reliable source so your claim could be verified. El_C 11:55, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That was, I think, Mavronjoti's mistake, not Megistias. Anyway, it's reached the stage where we need an uninvolved admin to swing the trout over at that article. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Since they both have names that start with M, I'm unable to distinguish between theM. El_C 12:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I cite sources and rules this person doesnt.I am not the offenderMegistias (talk) 12:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol.
 * Mavronjoti = Albanian, brings questionable sources, has also been editing as IP, has breached 3RR
 * Megistias = Greek, defender of article status quo, did two reverts, is under revert parole.
 * Tassoskessaris (D.K.) = Greek, defender of article status quo, has been unnice to Mavronjoti.
 * Makes it clearer? Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * i thought the limit was automatic!.I suck but i did defend the article!Megistias (talk) 12:18, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * "Defending" works differently. Defending is done through friendly, relaxed, patient discussion and through "writing for the enemy". Ever tried that? Writing for the enemy means, you assume an active role taking the opponents cues, actively check how much of their claimed sources may in fact contain a kernel of truth, and then work that into the text, on your own accord. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You that they just remove the secondary sources and then incite an edit war.I took the bait last time.Megistias (talk) 12:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

How strange...
Someone please take a look at this strange/suspicious upload of 10 Feb... The .pdf is not linked to by any article and the upload constitutes the user's only edit. Paranoid snot that I am, I wouldn't recommend opening the file. I hear it screaming "exploit".
 * Image:Jaso2.pdf (note the suffix)

-- Fullstop (talk) 16:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It seems harmless. It's a text about a location in India that was apparently meant as an article. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Trolling username
I'd like to get User:UntimelyMaroon blocked for the trolling username. Let me explain. Earlier today a new user showed up at Allegations of state terrorism committed by the United States, under the name of User:Ultrastoopid. This username is a clear jab at User:Ultramarine, who is a regular editor of the article. Furthermore, the user's edits were heavily critical of Ultramarine's contributions. I had Ultrastoopid blocked by a report to WP:AIVU. Moments later, the same user (no need for an request for checkuser per WP:SNOW) showed up under the new name User:UntimelyMaroon. Once again, this username is (in my mind) a clear violation of the username policy, since it targets the editor User:Ultramarine with the explicit goal of being offensive and disruptive. However, Slackr, the usernamevio admin, did not see the name as a transparent violation. He/she recommended that I send the complaint through a different channel. Silly rabbit (talk) 17:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me - nicely explained. I hard-blocked UntimelyMaroon.  —Wknight94 (talk) 17:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

User:Staygyro
Page move vandalism? I'm not sure quite what is doing. Could somebody block this user and fix the tangled web of moves?  Corvus cornix talk  00:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think its just a misguided attempt to create redirects for possible spelling variations, not anything malicious--Jac16888 (talk) 01:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * that is my intention Staygyro (talk) 01:02, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * if you want to create a redirect to another page, rather than doing it through page# moves, create the pages with the spelling variations, using #REDIRECT Name of the article to redirect to . --Jac16888 (talk) 01:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

on the same issue, i have accidentally created a page called Dmitri Hvorostovsk. Can an admin please delete it Staygyro (talk) 01:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. --Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 01:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Blanking this page


Someone want to take a look at this user: 66.168.119.50? He just blanked this page and when I went to warn him, I saw all the warnings on that page and thought I should just ask an admin to take care of it. Tex (talk) 16:10, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * (editing conflict) Next time you could be proactive. It's good practice : ) If the IP is still active and continues to blank after a warning (level 3 or final), then you or someone else can report him/her to WP:AIV. Looks as though they've already been warned. and blocked Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 16:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Blanking one's own talk page is permissible, unless it's a shared IP. It's practice; a proposal to use punitive measures against blanking one's own talk page failed to gain consensus, and probably won't. (Of course, this is a bit controversial.) Grace notes T <span title="Wikipedia:Administrators&#39; noticeboard/Incidents">§ 16:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's an IP with a long history of sporadic vandalism, including page blanking. They didn't blank their talk page, they blanked this page (AN/I). Vassyana (talk) 16:41, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops, misread. Sorry about that :) Grace notes T <span title="Wikipedia:Administrators&#39; noticeboard/Incidents">§ 17:58, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. IP blocked from anonymous editing. anonblock noted on talk page. Vassyana (talk) 16:33, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Vassyana. Apparently my original post wasn't clear.  I'm glad you understood what I was trying to say.  Tex (talk) 16:47, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Wait, what? Why has it been blocked for six months? It blanked the incidents noticeboard once - which was of course quickly reverted - and, prior to blanking, had not edited for almost a month. Six months seems, at best, excessive. --Iamunknown 01:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't have a strong opinion on this, but according to wannabekate, that IP has 165 mainspace edits and every one of them is vandalism. If it were an account, it would definitely be indef blocked as a vandalism only account. Tex (talk) 15:06, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The IP has only been used for vandalism and has a long history of vandalism. The sporadic nature of its activity, the length of time between edits and the established history of vandalism all factored into my block. Users on that IP can still edit logged-in, and if they do not have an account they may request one to gain editing access. To my knowledge, this is a standard treatment for heavy vandalism anons. Vassyana (talk) 06:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Endorse block. Seems like a fine solution to a long-term vandal with no constructive edits.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  06:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Inverness
Hi all. I'm requesting that someone with admin privileges restore the page now at Inverness, Highland to Inverness. This is a controversial move made in the last hour, but moving editor User:Laurel Bush has already edited the previous location Inverness, redirecting it to Inverness (disambiguation), so that no editor without sysop privileges can reverse the unilateral move. I don't think it's unfair to request that the page be restored, so that Laurel Bush can then open a WP:RM if she desires. Regards, Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 15:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Moved back to original locations. Left a note on the talkpage to open a RM, though I'm not sure why we'd want to move this article now. <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 16:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 *   Having a look, the disambig page isn't a bad idea except it's being used for all things pertaining to the various Inverness's, and not different types of Inverness's themselves. Also the page I think with naming convention it should be Inverness, Scotland not Inverness, Highland. However I see you haven't left a message on the editors talk page prior to bringing it here, and only a message on the disambig page and discussion hasn't been thoroughly explored but will look to move them back. And it was done as I was typing. <font face="verdana" color=#6633cc>Khu <font face="verdana" color=#CC66FF>kri 16:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've move-protected it until a discussion takes place, if one does. As a general point, we usually don't use a qualifier for a city if one is by far the most well-known, which I think the Scottish city is. <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 16:15, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. A similar course of actions had been taken on Nairn yesterday I think. Again, the irreversible action was taken first, then a notice was posted on the Scottish wikipedians' noticeboards. The move ... unnecessary and controversial from the responses, involved the cutting and pasting of text, and has left hundreds of wikilinks pointing at a dab page (now at Nairn). In both the cases of Nairn and Inverness, the pre-move page appears to be clear primary usage ... though moves in both took place before this matter had been examined by the community. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 17:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've moved the pages and fixed the links, problem is now that the history is at Nairn (government and administration boundaries) rather than Nairn after the article was split. I've got to go out now, but I'll fix this when I get back. <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 18:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It's a nightmare ... took a while to work out what happened! It fairness to User:Simply south, who did the cut and paste split, the split wouldn't have been so bad if he'd chosen to make Nairn, Scotland (now thankfully back at Nairn) the successor of (pre-move) Nairn rather than the other one! Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 18:50, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * And done. <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 19:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I would just like to note that i did before place notices both on the article's talk page and at WikiProject Scotland. Also, after the split i made Nairn a disambiguation page so there was no successor to it, as you have put it. Simply south (talk) 23:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

BetaCommandBot, reprogramming suggestion
I am increasingly seeing how this bot works through its invasions of my watchlist and watching the results. What appears to be happening is that images with no rationale and images with an attempted rationale, but no article link, are tagged as being completely the same, i.e. deletabble in 7 days, i.e. here:. I believe this is unnacceptable, as the cases of attempted rationales would clearly pass muster in a court, which is what the policy aims to meet. In order to decrease the stress and anger this bot is causing every time it goes on a 20,000 tag run, it should be reprogrammed to only run a few hundred images at a time, and to dump the resulting tagged images into an expert clearing house, before placing a huge warning and endless spamming of talk pages, only some of which are appropriate, so that images can be screened into the obvious 2 categories here, non-compliance full stop and in need of time and attention, and non-compliance with the bot's specification, but fixable in 10 seconds without stress and alarm by experienced editors, and the consequent uneccessary loss of images/editors. This would also increase the accuracy of the bot process as a whole itself, as the bot can be defeated easily by putting a gibberish rationale, as long as it contains the appropriate number of links. I know time/numbers is a factor, so I suggest images in the clearing house not given any attention in 7 days are then tagged and users warned as usual, irregardless. The clearing house can be accessed by anyone, in a collaborative effort that WP is supposed to be. MickMacNee (talk) 18:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You do realize we have almost 300,000 non-free images? If it only did 500 per day, it would take about a year and a half to go through all the images we currently have. And that assumes that there are people willing to spend hours per day going through the images and fixing minor errors. Mr.  Z- man  18:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * And you have assumed every single image present is in error, which they are not. MickMacNee (talk) 18:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be better if changes were made to the upload process that required the use of the FUR template, which makes it clear when there is anything missing that it must be added. The problem is at the beginning of the process and with the uploaders. The bot is just pointing out the mistakes.  Lara  ❤  Love  18:29, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That is not a reason to not change the bot as described above. Pick a random sample of tagged images, this is not purely a new image problem. MickMacNee (talk) 18:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That actually probably makes the situation worse. Don't know if it still holds true but the license list used to contain licenses which were invalid for use on wikipedia, such images quickly got deleted. Why would we do this? Simply we want people to be honest about the license, not just use something which works. So user uploads image, select FU as a "license" is forced to enter all sorts of stuff they don't understand, ah what the hell PD it is then... --81.104.39.63 (talk) 19:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I did just noticed uploading two images a second ago that (unless it's the advanced wikEd editor that put it there) that the non-free rationale template is automatically inserted into the rationale edit area for image uploading. --M ASEM 19:40, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It was inserted a couple of months ago. Remember the Dot did the programming and either I or him suggested it at the Upload talk page and I believe VP-Prop or VP-Tech.  MBisanz  talk 19:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

If you are getting spammed messages from BCBot on your talkpage it is because you are doing it wrong. The images are supposed to have a machine-readable rationale template, and the bot tags images that do not. The purpose is not to be sufficient for court, Wikimedia copyright liability for images is not the primary issue. Please do not create new threads for BetaCommandBot when there are already half a dozen on WP:AN and threads from this board have been moved there recently. <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000">Avruch <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000"> T 20:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Roll-up disputed, see actioner's talk page. MickMacNee (talk) 00:57, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

La dii da
Brand-new account, only edits are to blank arbcom pages. Possibly a sockpuppet? —Random832 18:18, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * FYI, user was blocked within minutes of the blanking edits. —Wknight94 (talk) 18:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

User:VigilancePrime and "fake" template

 * Well I've got a request - can you remove that fake block template from the top of your page? it's misleading. --Fredrick day (talk) 21:35, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand that and have changed it to be obvious that I am NOT blocked. Avruch and I worked that out civilly (as opposed to the way SqueakBox operates, and that's the point of the problem there). Fixed. VigilancePrime (talk) 21:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What is the joke associated with the use of the fake template? You're a rebel? Or some other message? I agree it is confusing and distracting. David D. (Talk) 21:51, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * since people are focusing not on the actual question, I started this into a seperate ANI
 * Lately there have been some very knee-jerk overzealous blocks. I have been somewhat vocal about how they are probably a bit excessive (I support a block in both instances, but indef is clearly excessive). The only reason I haven't been blocked is that I gave up on WP:NPOV and the like before the fireworks began. There are a couple people that would like me blocked for life because they don't like my NPOV-ishness and demandingness regarding the following of actual policy and precedent. That is why I have the "yeah right...don't you wish" and "well it's about time...not" in those boxes. The humor value of it. I'm careful not to let me emotionality (totally) get the better of me on Wikipedia, in spite of the personal attacks I sometimes have been subjected to (as above). Anyway, it's moot as the page has been thusly changed so as not to be misleading-able or mis-read-able. Thanks for the interest! VigilancePrime (talk) 22:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I'm getting moderately tired of you, too, VP. It seems if you aren't bitching or moaning about something, you're complaining. Have you considered taking up collecting stamps as a hobby instead? HalfShadow (talk) 22:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * How is that a constructive comment? Do you expect him to take your suggestion seriously? I removed it hoping that you would think better of it and either not replace it or replace it with something that isn't inflammatory. Unfortunately, you put it back word for word and threatened to "report me." Feel free. <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000">Avruch <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000"> T 22:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Can't you just ignore people rather than waving the red flag? David D. (Talk) 22:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec) I also think the block notice is misleading... the text you changed is rather small, and mostly, what you notice is the big red X with its familiar bold indef text. Perhaps you could at least change the background color, or some other code that results in a more visible difference from the actual indef template? <small style="font:bold 10px Arial;display:inline;border:#009 1px dashed;padding:1px 6px 2px 7px;white-space:nowrap"><font color="#000">Equazcion •✗/C • 22:05, 15 Feb 2008 (UTC)
 * Who cares?. Honestly.  Let him be.  If he wants to leave the template on his page, let him... What is the offense we are supposed to deal with here?  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  22:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not offended, but I don't think its really appropriate because of the potential for confusion - seeing it without reading it closely (or at all in its previous incarnation) could lead someone to redact his contributions, to refrain from posting on his talkpage or otherwise interfere with communication. I think we should stay away from letting people put blocked templates on their own pages. <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000">Avruch <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000"> T 22:14, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Initially I thought it was confusing. From what he wrote above it appears to be taunting. It might be his own user page but taunting opponents is exactly the wrong way to go about creating a good editing environment. Hence my don't wave red flags comments above, i really think this is bad judgement. David D. (Talk) 22:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If it was a joke it was in bad taste. Thanks, SqueakBox 22:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * He's converted the template into something amusing. Way to go. Thanks, SqueakBox 23:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Harrasment, abuse of admin rights
I was blocked for a period of 31 hours on account "You have been blocked from editing for a period of 31 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for edit war on Ante Starčević, using multiple reverts without gaining consensus to do so.."as it can be seen here by Jayron32. Consensus is something completely meaningless here - due to the fact that the existing version was not a result of any consensus. I was motivated to put previous version back - seeing that huge portion of sourced text was baselessly removed. I was supported by other editor (Smerdyakoff) - see here  and here. In this edit war participated only two other editors - Spylab and Rjecina - see. Rjecina refused to discuss the removal of sourced text, Spylab claimed that the text was POV and written in poor English - see. As to the truth about POV - the removed text is strictly referenced but Spylab removed valid reference. Moreover, Spylab does not read or speak Serbo-Croatian in which almost all references are written - the fact proving that (s)he has no valid knowledge to justify removal of the text under being POV.

Bottom line - administrator Jayron32 acted baselessly and baselessly called upon Wikipedia's blocking policy. Looks like that consensus is obligatory to only one side - the one picked by Jayron32. Constructive contributions must be based on proven knowledge and impartial and verifiable references - which I supported by putting back the previous version of this article. --Stagalj (talk) 03:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Bottom line - you're a troll. Next please. Will (talk) 03:42, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Should I respond, or just let this post speak for itself. --Jayron32. talk . contribs  04:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * On closer inspection... The edit patterns here were both suspicious and vaguely familiar. It appears that Stagalj is a sockpuppet of indef-blocked Velebit ( talk · <span title="Contributions: Velebit">contribs  · <span title="Deleted contributions: Velebit">deleted contribs  · [/wiki/Special:Log/move?user= <span title="Page moves: Velebit"> page moves  ] · <span title="Block User:Velebit">block user  · [ <span title="Blocklog: Velebit"> block log  ] ).  Indef blocked... Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 05:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Assorted harassment part II
There's another ip out there who's really getting to be pretty belligerent, he/she apparently has a fairly solid knowledge of how wikipedia works given references to 3RR and modifying user pages, but there's a lot of personal attacks, disruptive mainspace edits and more. see User: 67.204.1.137. A quick glance at Special:Contributions/67.204.1.137 should be enough to warrant action in my opinion. thanks, Credo  From  Start    talk  05:26, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * never mind, it's been dealt with. Credo  From  Start    talk  05:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Already taken care of: . --Jayron32. talk . contribs  05:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

User:MascotGuy and
While looking over the modus operandi section of Long term abuse/MascotGuy, I noticed one user who seems to be doing one of MG's hallmark contribs - plural redirects (for example, this). While the user in question has a pretty good net productivity (the redirects themselves are generally considered to be good contributions, I think), is there a protocol for telling someone their edits are similar to that of a sockpuppeteer?

Am I completely misreading this situation, am I being to bitey, or is this a legitimate problem? GlobeGores (talk page | user page) 07:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No edits to Talk pages, editing Long term abuse/MascotGuy/list. Smells like a duck to me.  <font face="Arial"> Corvus cornix  talk  07:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I was about to block him, but I noticed someone got there first. Thanks to Ryulong for taking care of this.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  07:27, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

User:Otolemur crassicaudatus
User:Otolemur crassicaudatus

Seems to believe there is subsequent reason to delete userboxes he disagrees with or believes are nonsensical. Several users have complained, including myself, about nominating the userboxes for deletion, yet he continues to believe they have no purpose here on Wikipedia.

Examples of userboxes he would like deleted:

   

I don't know how one would properly handle this overzealous use of nominating articles for deletion, so here is the incident. Thanks, Milonica (talk) 12:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If he believes a userbox to be nonsensical that's a great reason to nominate it for deletion, even if most would think it funny. There is absolutly no need for admin action here, so don't put it oon an admin noticeboard, take it up with him on his talk page.-- Phoenix -  wiki  14:07, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The first one is a reasonable nomination for deletion because it attacks another user (a bot is obviously run by a user), but the others are obviously jokes and somewhat pointless to nominate, and I see all three have been Speedy Kept. <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 16:25, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Signature
Jeffmichaud for a long time has used the signature "Jeff", but changed it on Jan 14 to "Baha'i Under the Covenant". The policy on User names says to avoid names that are offensive or promotional. WP:sig suggests for users to politely request others to change their signature. If there is consensus that the policy of avoiding 'offensive, confusing, or promotional' user names equally applies to signature, then I also suggest updating WP:sig.

I politely requested on Jan 24 for him to change the signature, and after no response I warned him again on Feb 8,. The first request was immediately archived, and the second request was immediately deleted outright from his talk page.

For more details on why this is both offensive and promotional, glance over Baha'i divisions. The Baha'i religion has teachings on the succession of authority, and anyone creating divisions are considered dangerous and shunned, labeled "Covenant-breaker". The implication is that there is a Covenant in the religion to provide unity, and anyone who breaks away is not under the Covenant. Jeffmichaud belongs to one such group with a handful of followers who call themselves the "Baha'is Under the Provisions of the Covenant". Changing his signature in the middle of a debate over Baha'i content was his way of promoting his ideological claim in the face of other editors. Cuñado ☼ -  Talk  01:50, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh good grief! What kind of belief or faith is it that cannot withstand critical comment even from within itself? And when it comes down to mere words, whatever their implications, I'd suggest that any belief system should be self-confident and self-consistent in itself to be able to ignore mere words. That words are found offensive doesn't help in the slightest. Throughout history, words have been labelled as offensive, mostly because they represent a difference from orthodoxy; but in the context of an analytical, independently-minded and intellectually balanced source of information, rather than of opinion, taking offence at mere words is jejune, intellectually barren, and time-wasting. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 04:40, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Addendum: Please feel free to cite any authority whatsoever, religious, legal or otherwise, that supports a right not to be offended. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 04:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That is completely not the point. We have a Wikipedia policy that says not to use offensive user names, and a guideline that says it equally applies to signatures. Your response is attacking the policy and saying that nobody should be offended by anything. That's nonsense and a total disregard for the official policy that "all users should follow". Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  07:07, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I apologise, but I personally am offended by any user name containing the letter "c". Therefore, they should all be banned. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 11:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Once again, completely not the point, and an illogical disregard for WP policy. Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  15:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Stop shaking the straw man, please. Or is that Reductio ad absurdum? hbdragon88 (talk) 19:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Forgive my stupidity, but exactly how is the signature offensive or promotional? — Kurykh  07:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't see it either; sounds like the debate we had over User:Rama's Arrow a few months ago. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 12:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm.. neither can I. Has the subject since changed it? Rudget . 14:08, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

This is a big part of why I don't edit Baha'i articles anymore. :\ JuJube (talk) 14:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe I should make something clear: I don't think it's offensive that he has certain beliefs and edits wikipedia, but he changed his signature to something that implies divine right. It would be like a user name of "I'm in God's favor and you're not". There is no need to use controversial user names/signatures and I politely requested for him to change it, and I politely requested for an administrator to enforce policy and ask him to change it to something less controversial. And no he hasn't changed it yet. Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  15:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll take a deeper look, and ask him to change it based on that reason. I don't see anything unreasonable in asking the subject to change to something that would at least reflect his username. Rudget . 15:38, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally, if someone changed their sig to "I'm in God's favor and you're not", my reaction would be less "offended" and more "hilarity". Even assuming the worst possible faith--that the person is TRYING to honk off the other believers--changing a sig to something self-aggrandizing says less about the truth of his/her beliefs as it says about their response to disagreement. Just my opinion, though, and no offense intended to anyone. Gladys J Cortez 06:57, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Gladys. It is funny. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 07:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey, is someone here talking about me behind my back? Kidding. Rudget, I will respectfully decline your request to change anything if, as seems clear from the discussion that transpired, I'm not in violation of any policies nor am I being "required". I don't believe I've violated any policy, but rather am being "asked" to change it to appease Cunado's will on the matter? After closer look at the actual policies on the matter it is obvious that Cunado is taking generous liberties at interpreting them in his own unique way for reasons not exactly obvious to me or anyone else. I appreciate your sentiments to avoid controversy, Rudget, but if it is offensive to Cunado I can only be envious that his life is so blessed to have nothing of greater concern to worry about. Baha&#39;i Under the Covenant (talk) 07:40, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * WP:Username policy is a policy that "all users should follow", and "a user who acts against the spirit of them may be reprimanded, even if technically no rule has been violated." The policy states that inappropriate user names are ones that are misleading, promotional, offensive, or disruptive, and "these criteria apply to both usernames and signatures." I already explained why the signature is controversial. I was once blocked for not following WP:sig, which is a guideline and not even a policy, see this conversation. Someone please enforce policy. Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  17:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I am inclined to view this as not offensive. It is one thing to say "My group is great" and another to say "Your group isn't", so we have lots of users with pro- type names, whether it be sports, nationality, activity, whatever, which seem compliant with the policy; while anti- type names aren't. Quite a difference between User:Boston Red Sox lover and User:New York Yankees hater in my mind. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 00:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, would you find a signature such as "Jesus, the true lord and savior" to be offensive? It's proselytism, regardless of the religion involved. We have some Yankees and Red Sox fans who have a fervent devotion to their teams, but it's not the same thing. If the signature would be blocked as a user name, it shouldn't be acceptable as a signature either.  Horologium  (talk) 01:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Horologium, your example is in fact proselytism, but I'm not proselytizing per se. I'm identifying myself here, and not promoting/proselytising anything. BTW, it hasn't been blocked as a user name. Would it be? I've considered creating it as one. Would it be a problem? Baha'i Under the Covenant  08:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I brought it up on Usernames for administrator attention, but it was not considered because the actually user name is not the issue. The spirit of the policy is that user names and signatures should be used for identification and should avoid anything controversial. Religion and politics are the most controversial subjects, so it should be a no-brainer to say that it's inappropriate to boldly promote a religious view in a user name or sig. Even a name like "Jesus is for me" might seem harmless, but there is no reason to stir the pot on something that should be free of controversial subjects. Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  16:03, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Generally, the signature is intended to be a means of discerning who has placed certain comments. By changing it to something that obscures your username (no where in "Baha'i Under the Covenant" does it tell me who that is), is not within policy. The only problem I see is that there is no reference to "Jeff" or "Jeffmichaud" in your signature. Surely, it would be better to use something that includes the phrase you want, but also includes your actual username in some form.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 08:54, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * While I agree, WP:sig is a guideline, and it says "While not an absolute requirement, it is common practice for a signature to resemble to some degree the username it represents." So we're back to offering Jeffmichaud unenforceable advice. The issue is about enforcing the policy about a controversial signature. Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  16:03, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've also seen that he has not responded to my comment either here or his talk page. I'm really not sure, as an administrator, what should be done here.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 23:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ryulong, you didn't request comment "here or on my talk page". There were no questions in your message. I understand your concern now, and it makes perfect sense, so I've taken your suggestions and made the appropriate changes. I didn't think further comment was needed. <font color="Red">Baha'i Under the Covenant<font color="Blue">Jeff  05:29, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Admittedly I know essentially nothing about the religion in question, so I can't say for myself whether this signature in and of itself is contentious. But what strikes me as a potential bad faith is the way this came about -- from a content dispute regarding the religion in question.

I'm of the opinion -- and this is an opinion I came to by taking my lumps first -- that anything potentially divisive should be left off the wiki ... this is why I changed my username from something contentious to something just plain silly. The difficulty here is that not all people hold this view. Jeff obviously doesn't, and it would seem, from a policy point of view, that he's entitled to not hold it.

Is Jeff doing something whereby we can make him change his signature? Probably not. But in the spirit of good cooperation he should consider changing it as a measure of good faith. However, Jeff's comments here, such as these:
 * I will respectfully decline your request to change anything if, as seems clear from the discussion that transpired, I'm not in violation of any policies nor am I being "required".
 * I appreciate your sentiments to avoid controversy, Rudget, but if it is offensive to Cunado I can only be envious that his life is so blessed to have nothing of greater concern to worry about.
 * Horologium, your example is in fact proselytism, but I'm not proselytizing per se. (emphasis mine)
 * Ryulong, you didn't request comment "here or on my talk page". There were no questions in your message. [...] I didn't think further comment was needed.

do not indicate an overwhelming amount of dedication to the cooperative spirit. Sorry to assume mediocre faith here, but I'm not thrilled with the spirit of these responses. - Revolving Bugbear  20:48, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Revolving, how strange that you'd decide to cut and paste around the comments which are absolutely agreeable and polite, and display my comments in such a unfavorable way? Why leave out "I understand your concern now, and it makes perfect sense, so I've taken your suggestions and made the appropriate changes."?


 * I wasn't even notified about this directly, but was sideswiped, so-to-speak, by an email from Rudget (which was very polite and agreeable), so I came into the conversation after two days of discussion had transpired. I didn't change this, as Cunado implied, on the 14th in the middle of a discussion, but on the 12th basically on a whim. I don't feel compelled in any way to bend to Cunado's will as I believe his concerns are unfounded and a bit overly dramatic; but that doesn't automatically mean my actions here are in bad faith? Cunado's stated concern was this violated policy by being "promotional and controvertial", and I disagree. That is within my rights as far as I'm aware. Being made aware of Ryulong's concerns shed a new light on the matter, and I immediately made the changes he requested. If that is all then I'll thank you all for your help in the matter, and if there's anything I can be of further assistance for please notify me directly as I won't be keeping abreast of any further evolution of this discussion. Cheers. <font face="cursive" color="Red">Baha'i Under the Covenant<font face="cursive" color="Blue">Jeff  22:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You were definitely not "sideswiped". I asked you twice to change it and told you that I would follow up on the Admin notice board. Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  01:32, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Negated fallacy of division -- just because not all of your comments are lacking a spirit of cooperation does not mean that all of your comments are not lacking a spirit of cooperation.
 * Given the number of people who have approached you in the last week or so (3) vs. the number of them you have directly responded to (0) and your long-standing message that you don't want people to comment on your talk page about anything substantive, I think that a little more effort to reach out to the community would be very helpful in this situation. - Revolving Bugbear  19:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Change to user name policy
I can sympathize with admins not wanting to make a value-based judgment on what might be offensive in a religion, but this requires such a judgment. Would it be appropriate to update the user name policy to avoid showing religious or political affiliation? That seems to be in the spirit of what to avoid, and would differentiate this from the User:Boston Red Sox lover example mentioned above. Cuñado ☼ -  Talk  01:32, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well the best place to do that would be at WP:U where there is ongoing discussion regarding these types of things. As a matter of fact, the issue of religious or political references has surfaced. I ask you though, do you honestly propose that usernames that make allusions to a religious figure should result in a block? Remember WP:CENSORED. <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 04:30, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a big difference between censoring in an article and avoiding controversial subjects in a user name. We already have a policy of not using promotional or offensive user names, and it is supposed to be enforced by a block, but right now it's not specific enough to include religion and politics, which to me seem obvious.  Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  05:53, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, at one time it was specific enough to include (and this is more of a intuitive assessment of the name now) an inflammatory or offensive POV - If the username were to specifically disparage a religious icon or political figure, that would be one thing. However, there is an enormous difference between this and simply mentioning a symbol of your faith or ideology. Would you insist that IlikeAynRand to be a blatant violation of policy? <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 05:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Just bear in mind that there is much ongoing controversy over the username policy, not all administrators can come to an agreement, and in its current form there is nothing that would suggest the username you put forth is overtly offensive. The bottom line is this: virtually any username could potentially insult, aggravate, annoy or inflame somebody based on a personal point of view. This doesn't mean they should be reported to WP:UAA though. <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 07:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This can be archived now. Any further discussion I'll take to WP:U. Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  01:23, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Repeated tactics
If they dont get it its not my fault.Megistias (talk) 16:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I don't understand the question - do you have a concern of some sort? D.M.N. (talk) 16:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They refuse to interact and simply keep on reposting rejected material.Again on my ethnicity ,denying ,irony and ignore my postings and of any user or admin rejecting themMegistias (talk) 16:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Megistias is mixing up complaints against two different users: User:Dodona, who is indeed a disruptive editor and forever in danger of earning himself a renewed ban, and a new guy User:PelasgicMoon, who has so far not done anything outrageously disruptive by Balkanic standards. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:50, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * OK. In which case, can we have some diffs so that we can resolve, or try to resolve the problem. Regards, D.M.N. (talk) 16:53, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I am pretty frustrated.This is like deja vuMegistias (talk) 16:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Dodona is a loooooong story. I've been trying to guard him through a "second chance", that's the only reason I'm not just joining in with Megistias' cry for bans, but I have doubts if it's going anywhere. I somehow don't know where to start with the links :-( Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Still at it.13:08, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone please remedie this situation in its entirety.Its all wasted time against people that have a dogma Megistias (talk) 15:39, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Calling me a propagandist
talk, User:Taulant23 at the bottom of the talk says"his main propaganda agenda" referring to me.Megistias (talk) 09:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Not really the worst of personal attacks, if it even qualifies as one. What do you want done about it anyway?--Atlan (talk) 11:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * For him to stop doing it.Megistias (talk) 12:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's the diff. While it's borderline, comments like this are not helpful to the debate. I have left a note. — Satori Son 14:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * User PelasgicMoon is doing the sameMegistias (talk) 14:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Diffs please. — Satori Son 14:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Its at the bottom talkMegistias (talk) 14:22, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * User Dodona "that i am what i am called"Megistias (talk) 15:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, it's time to apply a few trouts here. Can somebody uninvolved please take over at Chaonians? (I've IAR'd and applied emergency shortterm protection for just two hours, but we need a taste of WP:ARBMAC I think.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I do apologize if I called you a Greek propagandist. But, it started with the Albanian page by putting maps after maps, showing North Epirus (southern Albania) as a Greek region.The maps and the article, sound it like a right-wing Greek nationalists favoring the long-term goal of unification of so-called North Epirus with Greece.If Megistias (talk) doeesn’t like something, he takes it off. or reverted. He deleted my sources (and other users too) and call all my authors pseudo historians (even if some are ancient Greek writers). I don't go on Greek articles and edit their page nor do I claim Greek land or their heroes. We Albanians have our own history (ancient and modern)! I do apologize again, and I am offering to work with you. However, please respect my people, our history and let’s edit in peace.--Taulant23 (talk) 07:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * My maps are source according to Wiki rules.Involved admins(all of them) approve of my actions and your slander here against me is even more encumbering in your case.Admins all call your sources pseudo historians.Admins at a great number and non Greek ones too.Megistias (talk) 08:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

So four different users are wrong when they complain about your acts? Since when all Admins(all of them) approve your actions? and my slander here against you? I did apologize, and offered to work with you. What else do you want? I was sincere of what I think of your actions in Wikipedia.I do believe you promote Greek propaganda.--Taulant23 (talk) 08:46, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Your actions and that of those users you speak of is rejected by All the admins involved.Since you believe that i am that thing you say i want swift justice and measures by admins on you.You should also know that here only the violation is disscused not its specifics how you put them because those are resolved by the admins in the given pages.Megistias (talk) 08:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Some things you did and carry on it seems.Also note that i use secondary sources according to Wiki rules whilist you do not.So that makes me corrrect in all thesis support.You realise what that makes you and your likely minded users.


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Megistias (talk) 09:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The fact that you carry on in here is even more unbelievable.Megistias (talk) 09:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion you are a lost case,kρίμα Megistias (talk) because we can help each other.I do suggest that you listen to Fut.Perf. ☼ advice.Please do contactDeucalionite (talk),see if he can be your mentor.Enjoy your break.--Taulant23 (talk) 22:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Incident
see talk page admins-User wants an edit war and provokes to this effect ignoring secondary source and pretending he cant read.Most likely sockpuppet .Megistias (talk) 16:39, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems to be a minor content dispute - I've suggested a compromise, hopefully this will solve things. I suppose both yourslef, Megistias, and the IP (who then created an account, ) could both be blocked for 9 reverts each, but Fut Perf's protection has just as easily calmed that down. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#060">Neıl <u style="text-decoration:none;color:#060">☎  17:17, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * He doestn get it.He wants the edit warMegistias (talk) 17:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That is not a new user for certain.I am tired .Megistias (talk) 17:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Note that I only protected for two hours as an emergency measure. I've been involved with various related conflicts, so I'd appreciate if somebody else took care of whatever sanctions are appropriate. WP:ARBMAC applies, if necessary. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a new user.Megistias (talk) 17:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Look at what he is doing.I have answered a dozen times and provided myriad sources both secondary and primary and he just goes on..Megistias (talk) 18:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * He is not a new user he even knows how to switch his name into appearing as another "balkanian".You dont go from nymbered user to that in an hour!Megistias (talk) 19:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Hm, User:DragonflySixtyseven made a substantial edit to Chaonians and then protected the page. This seems like a no-no. I've asked him about it on his talk page, but he seems to be away from the computer at the moment. Anyway, I haven't investigated this situation fully yet, but it looks like we've got a handful of POV-pushing disruptive editors who are using a combination of dodgy sources and flat-out original research, with some possible sockpuppetry tossed in. --Akhilleus (talk) 21:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you guys impose some sanctions on the whole of the disruptive editors?They dont change or learn .Just do something.Megistias (talk) 08:50, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Listen guys we have wasted endless hours these past few months

with this team of disruptors and they dont change nor will they.They have clones they do they same thing again they ignore users,admins and rules and so on.Megistias (talk) 09:50, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

User trying to use Jimbo comment as a club
Before this gets too ugly, I want to make sure a few uninvolved admins start keeping an eye on a situation that appears to be developing. Jimbo made a comment on 7 February in which he stated:


 * I would like to offer my opinion. The project to excise all references to GNU/Linux is deeply POV and wrong. It should be reverted completely and totally as quickly as possible. Virtually all references to Linux should be references to GNU/Linux. I am certainly unaware of any community consensus which would support the draconian and absurd campaign that has been conducted against the correct naming convention.

Since that comment was made, a relatively new user,, has started an editing campaign to put "GNU" in front of every instance of "Linux" he can find. More so, he is trying to proclaim the rule of Jimbo in his edit comments with statements such as, "GNU/Linux has been confirmed as the correct naming convention for Wikipedia by its founder Jimmy Wales." He is doing this without prior discussion and is not responding well to talk page discussions trying to get him to slow down and discuss the changes. He is taking the stand of "Jimbo said it therefore it is the law".

Since that time, at least two other editors, and, have jumped on the wagon and started using the same sort of edit comments.

Personally, when someone says "my opinion" I take it in a different context than "this is a Wikipedia rule". This editor runs the risk of making it appear that Wikipedia is driven more by the whims of its founder than the consensus developed by the community. Some help in explaining that this is a consensus driving project is appreciated. --StuffOfInterest (talk) 12:46, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Note that Jimbo could be said to have something of a conflict of interest on this particular topic too. ;-) (look at the page footer, or here) --Kim Bruning (talk) 13:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC) OMG! He's fallen into the evil clutches of Saint iGNUcious! 

Now they think Lightedbulb is using a sock to get around 3RR Suspected sock puppets/Bald Eeagle. Sarah 13:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * And, in fact, the Wikipedia rules do say the opposite; whether "GNU/Linux" is "more correct" than "Linux" (an argument I do not want to enter), "Linux" is by far the most common english name for the group of operating systems driven by a Linux kernel, regardless of the presence of GNU tools&mdash; and therefore the one that should be used. &mdash; Coren (talk) 13:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Good grief, we even have an article GNU/Linux naming controversy. &mdash;Moondyne 13:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They were edit warring on that page, too, Moondyne. "Because Jimbo said!" :) Sarah 13:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I am undoing these edits on sight. The essence of Jimbo's opinion, IMO, was that creating an organized project to expunge the name GNU/Linux was inappropriate.  Gronky and the others are engaging in the exact same inappropriate behavior in the opposite direction.  But, y'know, we all remember the scene from Life of Brian with the gourd and the shoe. Nandesuka (talk) 13:49, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I am undoing the inappropriate work of the organised project. No more. --Gronky (talk) 14:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That movie completely misrepresented the situation. Those gourdists are nothing but a cult, and should not have been depicted as comparable in any way to the one true Shoe.--Father Goose (talk) 22:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

This is getting very disruptive - see [ Gronky's edits] for some more (many haven't been reverted). --Iamunknown 14:14, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * One (presumably rainy) weekend, User:Thumperward went through a few hundred articles which mentioned "GNU/Linux" and changed them all to "Linux". A few people objected, but no one had equal time to undo this consensusless spree.  I would call it an "edit flood".  I've been meaning to undo those edits ever since, and others have also expressed an interest.  Jimbo's comment is just the final motivation to actually start.  There was never any justification or consensus to strip Wikipedia of "GNU/Linux" in the first place.  User:Thumperward's campaign completely ignored and undermined the community process that makes Wikipedia work.  So my 15 or so edits today are not a campaign, they're just a partial rollback of an edit flood that should never have been. --Gronky (talk) 14:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Well with people like YOU (Prolog, StuffOfInterest, Nandesuka and a couple of others) acting here as the owners of the last word on what stays in wikipedia it's not surprising to see why in many Higher Educational Institutions the use of Wikipedia is discouraged and in some cases even forbidden.

With arguments such as to use the most common or most popular words to name things you are not helping to build an Encyclopedia but a kind of blog that you use to express your personal preferences. I will not get into a lengthy demonstration of this disdain of Wikipedia by the the serious international academic community. But for anyone here who has a doubt about that just go to the nearest University and talk to any professor to see what they think of Wikipedia as it is thanks to you guys, wonderful old seasoned editors.

The image wikipedia is getting is one of an outlet that is even used by corporation executives that pay people to edit anything that concerns them or their interests. By the way I can say I am not affiliated to any organization or company that sells any product or service related to GNU/Linux or as you so passionately prefer just "Linux". I don't get one cent from my efforts. I wanted just to share what I know with people seeking information.

The aim has never been to deny the Linux kernel but rather to add. Now your aim seems to be to hide the fact from many users that to be able to use this OS GNU/Linux there is complete freedom to the user and that he/she does not need the services of any company to supply him with the software as happens with proprietary sotfware. It is clear that as the creators of the "Open Source" initiative declared they wanted that what was until then known as "Free Sotfware" became more acceptable to the business community and to investors. Thus there is a systematic pattern by many people to omit the mention of GNU which has as its main message the idea of freedom. Freedom is not what interests "open source" companies such as O'Reilly which by the way is one of the main publishers of books with the Linux title to refer to the entire OS. In a well known documentary one can even see Linux Torvalds wearing and O'Reilly's T-shirt with the words "Open Source". As one of the editors who deleted my contribution said AdrianTM and to whom Prolog readily seconded the reason for eliminating GNU is that he hates the idea of "Free" Software and Richard Stallman. Just as Linus Torvalds does. Well if that is not POV then what?

It is a pity that this idea of a free Wikipedia Encyclopedia will end up as a failure to become an accurate and reliable source of knowledge and information. For that Microsoft Encarta, a proprietary product, will be a far better choice.

Lightedbulb (talk) 15:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * "The shoe is his sign! Let us follow his example.  Let us, like Him, hold up one shoe and let the other be upon our foot, for this is His sign, that all who follow Him shall do likewise." Nandesuka (talk) 15:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I am SO tired of arguments that include the phrase or likeness "well, THIS is the reason academics don't like Wikipedia!". I have some great ideas for what to do with the shoe when arguments like that one are made...  - Philippe &#124; Talk 19:45, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * If you disagree with the common name arguments, maybe you should try and get the guideline which says to use common names changed instead? --Haemo (talk) 20:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Presumably you meant WP:COMMONNAMES in the link above, but WP:COMMON is I think much more appropriate here. 131.111.223.43 (talk) 23:22, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

cough. Sniff. --Jayron32. talk . contribs 22:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Request edit summary change with less offensive comment
Request that an admin kindly remove these WP:ICA "vandalism" comments from edit summaries here andhere. Thanks,  JGHowes <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  20:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Admins cannot edit edit summaries. Sorry!  Metros (talk) 20:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * An oversight could remove the revisions? -- The  Helpful   One  (Review) 20:06, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They could but I highly doubt that they'd consider this a needed removal. They generally only do this for personal information being revealed; not a bad-faith edit summary.  Metros (talk) 20:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if we oversighted mean edit summaries, we'd be at it all day. --Haemo (talk) 20:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Spamming and threats
I caught an anonymous user adding inappropriate links to contextflexed.com here and here. Now Contextflexed showed up and not only readded the links, but threated me here saying he ''will be forced to out your identity. Stop headhunting me or else. <b style="color:green;">IrishGuy</b> <sup style="color:blue;">talk'' 20:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd vote for a block - possibly indef. Also blacklisting for the external site.  Can't very well stand for nonsense like that.  —Wknight94 (talk) 21:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * OrangeMike did a soft usernameblock. I upgraded to a hard block for the threat to reveal a RL identity.  Anyone want to add the blacklist line?  —Wknight94 (talk) 21:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

User:Dana4
Disruptive single-purpose account, possible sockpuppet. Edit-warring on Homeopathy, which is under probation. I have deleted the copyrighted image they uploaded but am not sure if they should be blocked at present. Comments? Tim Vickers (talk) 20:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Seems to be a fairly new (if precociously tendentious) account. An alternative to a short block for edit-warring (which would appear justified) would be to place them on 1RR and disruption parole, per the terms of the article probation, and give him/her another chance to shape up. MastCell Talk 20:40, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe someone impersonating, or a sockpuppet of, User:Danaullman, who edits the same article. It is too soon to determine which, but it certainly raises a red flag.  I'm not saying we need to act now, or indeed if there is anything to act on, but its something to be aware of.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  22:13, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

CSD Deletion of User Conduct RfC
The language on the User conduct RFCs say:


 * " In order to remain listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this sysop and have failed. This must involve the same dispute, not different disputes. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: 20:41, 4 February 2008 (UTC)}), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 21:13, 15 February 2008 (UTC). "

Am I correct in assuming that the person who wrote an filed the RFC obviously does not count as the threshold for two people? This is regards to the talk at User_talk:Pegasus, because I tagged Requests_for_comment/Cumulus_Clouds for deletion today. Only User:Johntex had certified it after 1+ week. Lawrence §  t / e  21:18, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No, Lawrence, you are mistaken. "Two people" includes the person who files the RFC.  If it meant "two additional people" it would say so.
 * That is clearly the interpretation that was being used during the discussion on the RFC itslf. That discussion centered around whether or not I had certified it.  If I, as the second person, was still insufficient to certify, then the conversation would have been completely different.  It would have centered around whether a third person was stepping forward.  You never once came forward with an opinion that my certification was not sufficient.
 * Also Lawrence, it is ironic that you say that "as possible partisans in this both your and my opinions are to be immediately devalued here for the community to decide". I am happy that you agree because it proves my point.  You, as an involved party, should not have tagged the page for Speedy Deletion.
 * If you felt the page should be deleted then you should have taken the more up-front approach and listed it at MfC. That would have allowed community discussion.
 * Also, this proves my point that deletion of the RFC is NOT an uncontroversial matter. A controversial deletion should not be based upon a "speedy tag" placed by one of the partisans.
 * The RFC page should be allowed to restored and allowed to run its course. If Lawrence disagrees then the appropriate venue would be MFD.  It was not appropriate for Lawrence to tag an ongoing RFC wihth a "speedy deletion" tag. Best, Johntex\talk 21:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The RFC as I read it was an uncertified work of pure harassment, and an attack page on a valued editor. Lawrence  §  t / e  22:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, you have made your opinion clear on that. Again, it points to your personal involvement with this why it was improper for you to tag with speedy deletion.  Numerous other people did not agree and have already commented on the RFP.  Many of them had criticisms of CC's actions.  You are doing CC no favors by trying to sweep this under the rug with a speedy deletion. The deletion needs to be overturned and the RFC allowed to continue. Johntex\talk 22:43, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

This mistaken deletion of an in-process RFC is a grave error and this improper deletion should be un-done forthwith. Johntex\talk 23:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm with Johntex on this one - the plain language of the header says "two people" -- not two people "other than the filer." Lawrence's intentions are good here - but there's a dispute between BQZ and CC that needs to be resolved.  An RFC is a fair-enough place to do so, and they seemed to be moving in that direction, so let's just let them resolve things if they can -- and if they can't then, ok, we tried.  Arguing about whether or not the RFC was properly certified just seems drama-inducing, rather than helpful. --TheOtherBob 22:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Here are recent sample RfCs that were certified by a total of 2 people, including the original filer.
 * 1) Requests_for_comment/Angie_Y._2
 * 2) Requests for comment/Threeafterthree
 * 3) Requests_for_comment/Kmweber_2
 * 4) Requests_for_comment/COGDEN
 * 5) Requests for comment/Tony Sidaway 4

Uh - what possible reading of the RfC guidelines tells you that the filer isn't a certifier? It says two people must be in the dispute. If the filer is in the dispute - thats one person. The filer of an RfC is routinely a certifier. Additionally, what would cause you to tag an RfC for deletion? RfC's serve a purpose beyond whatever technical satisfaction of the page guidelines you are looking for - clearly there is a dispute there that hadn't been resolved by other means and required community input so that the editors could appropriately weigh the correctness of their actions. By getting the RfC deleted (which, if its restored, you can see I specifically argued against without taking a position on the dispute) you have short-circuited the process here. Additionally, the CSD category that was used to delete the RfC was cited improperly. The deleting admin should have noticed that there were a sufficient number of certifiers and refrained from deleting the pages. <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000">Avruch <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000"> T 23:54, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Pegasus, for restoring the RfC pages. <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000">Avruch <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000"> T 00:01, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, thank you Pegasus! Johntex\talk 00:06, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

User:Davidbinder14


From the editing pattern, and particularly the comment on Talk:David Binder (now deleted), I think there is a high probability that Davidbinder14 is a role account. The account certainly indicates a significant WP:COI issue - I don't think it's Binder himself, but it might be a PR firm or agent working to improve his Wikipedia coverage (from none to copyright violation - great improvement! ).  Something to keep an eye on, and possibly take action against if it does prove to be a role account. <b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b> 21:54, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's possible, but from my end all I really see is a WP:COI with the account. It may very well be David Binder, or an associate. <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 21:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Strappado
This article was mentioned on Andrew Sullivan's Daily Dish today. Apparently at the time the United States was listed with a tag. A reference to Abu Ghraib was subsequently added by a couple of IP users. This strikes me as a possible WP:NPOV problem so I'm reporting it here. MoodyGroove (talk) 03:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)MoodyGroove

Assorted harassment
I'm having a problem with an IP user (69.157.51.121). I believe that it's the same one who has repeatedly vandalized my userpage (and others) over the last couple of months, related to Trenton, Ontario. Now it seems that s/he has started on a page I started last spring. There were some issues and they were resolved, but this person is vandalizing the article (Whitby Public Library) and calling my reverts COI. I'm not sure how to deal with this - he just made a comment on WP:Long Term Abuse. Any help appreciated. Blotto adrift (talk) 05:14, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Blotto adrift please see the history regarding conflict of interest. He was ruled that he was in conflict on interest last year regarding the Whitby Public Library, however he now edits the page after it has left the minds of people. Take a look at his history, many users have noticed a problem with him and his editing style. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.51.121 (talk) 05:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I blocked the IP address for trolling. I find the claims unsubstatiated, and his spamming every admin noticeboard around as disruptive and harrassing of the user.  Feel free to comment on the block, or recind it if you feel it is out of line.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  05:38, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Strongly endorse. This is the same editor that has been trolling and harassing various editors related to the Trenton, Ontario article.  Multiple IPs have been blocked.  His targets have been Blotto adrift, myself, and several others admins that have blocked him from editing.  -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 06:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Blotto adrift
Blotto adrift please see the history regarding conflict of interest. He was ruled that he was in conflict on interest last year regarding the Whitby Public Library, however he now edits the page after it has left the minds of people. Take a look at his history, many users have noticed a problem with him and his editing style. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.51.121 (talk) 05:33, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The above IP has been trolling every admin notice board, and his claims are unsubstatiated. I have blocked them for harrassment and disruption.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  05:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Strongly endorse. This is the same editor that has been trolling and harassing various editors related to the Trenton, Ontario article.  Multiple IPs have been blocked.  His targets have been Blotto adrift, myself, and several others admins that have blocked him from editing.  -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 06:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Edito*Magica
Just my day for ANIs I guess. User:Edito*Magica was brought to my attention by another editor, User:UpDown who knows I am well versed in creating episode lists and requested my assistance on List of Keeping Up Appearances episodes. Edito*MagicaJ kept changing for format of the list to one that removes the lead, and does not follow proper episode list format, going against the consensus for proper episode list formatting. (see good version versus his version). I reverted his edits, and tried to explain to him why his edits are incorrect. He refuses to listen, however, and appears to feel that he knows better than the main Wikipedia MOS, the TV project, and existing consensus and standards for episode lists (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Collectonian&diff=next&oldid=190484465 talk page discussions). UpDown also tried talking to him. I warned him that if continued his attempts to mess up the list, his edits would be considered vandalism, but he continues to revert, now calling the undoing of his edits to be acts of "sneaky vandalism." (his talk page with warnings that he has since blanked)

He is also removing content from various articles under the claim that information shouldn't be repeated in an article (examples:, ), despite it being appropriate information and my explaining to him that information can and should appear both in the lead and within the article proper.

At this point, its down to just undoing everything he is doing in these areas, and I'm hoping perhaps he will be more willing to listen to an admin since he is completely discounting the comments of other editors. I'm not entirely sure his edits are fully vandalism, but they are becoming very disruptive. AnmaFinotera (talk) 23:22, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * As an update, he is now leaving false warnings on the pages of those undoing his actions, and is selectively canvassing relatively new, inexperienced editors to try to get them to agree with him in an attempt to "form a new consensus" .  He is also continuing to edit war over his changes, blanking out content of infoboxes  or outright reverting the undos of his bad formatting and calling it vandalism . He is showing that he has absolutely no desire to actual improve or work with the community, and is ignoring more notes from experienced editors telling him that his format idea is wrong. AnmaFinotera (talk) 01:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:43, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, the reason why I persist in making the alterations on the Keeping Up Appearances episode page is to improve it for other users. I have the good of the community in mind and for that reason I want to help improve Wikipedia. Secondly, it is true I contacted two other users for a second opinion, both are not inexperienced and both agree with my minor adjustments to the layout. Collectonian does not like the fact that other users agree with me, and to report me for making changes he does not agree with is folly. It is he who is reverting constructive alterations that I have made, which still follow the Wikipedia policy on the “lead”, which isn’t even compulsory to follow anyway. I will stand up to the likes of Collectonian; if he can get people banned for undoing his edits and get them banned for making improvements, then how unjust the Wiki system actually is. I would report him, but i don't thing it is a constructive method in solving deputes. Edito*Magica (talk) 11:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Have either of you considered stopping the accusations of vandalism and trying to follow dispute resolution? Someguy1221 (talk) 11:21, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Good faith or not, the policies have been show to EditoMagica, who ignores them. That is vandalism whether he thinks he's improving the pages or not. --UpDown (talk) 14:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I AGFed at first, and tried to explain in detail why his edits were wrong, but EditoMagica has made it clear that he doesn't care. He removes content from articles because he thinks it shouldn't be "repeated" in the infobox (despite being told the infobox is a summary, not a standalone) and he is refactoring episode lists articles to remove the lead in favor of another section of lists of statistics, despite again being told that it violates the MOS, the lead, and the consensus for episode list formatting. He is now taking these edits to other episode lists and of course he is continuing on the KUA list. He also completely blanked the talk page of Keeping Up Appearances despite his edit history showing he knows very well how to properly edit a talk page. Its hard to AGF when he has already said very plainly that he doesn't care about Wikipedia policies or guidelines and instead is calling the clean up of his mess "sneaky vandalism" and making other accusations against the editors keeping him from ruining the articles (such as the one he left on your talk page which is obviously not a good faith remark). He's been told numerous times this isn't just the opinion of UpDown and myself (who normally, by the way, tend to disagree), but of the entire Television project, Anime project, and BBC project, all of which deal with television episode lists, and of the FL process, which EditoMagica would realize if he would actually look at the MOS and featured episode lists as was suggested.  This was brought here because he will NOT listen to other editors, hence the need for admin intervention as his edits are very disruptive.  His claims of support are from one or two other editors who are also as inexperienced as he is, and he continues to claim this support of two trumps to consensus of the hundreds of members of those projects and of Wikipedia guidelines as a whole. He is also blatantly ignoring two other editors telling him he is wrong. Despite his accusations, I'm not asking for him to be banned, but corrected and only blocked if he continues to be disruptive. AnmaFinotera (talk) 15:30, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This really is getting out of hand now; EditoMagica is being hugely disruptive and seems to think that his way of writing an episode list is the best way, and the fact one or two editors apparently back him up he thinks means he has "popular support". These things are backed up policy, guidelines and by looking at relevant FA. All these go against EditoMagica but he ignores this. In addition, he fails to understand that what is in the infobox is always repeated in the article proper (like the LEAD). If he won't listen to advise and guidelines he will need to be blocked for the sake of Wikipedia.--UpDown (talk) 14:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

And he continues leaving fake warnings on people's use pages and again trying to mess up the KUA episode article. I really wish an admin would look at this. Edito*Magica is trying to harass other users to get his way, insulting other editors, and being disruptive. He is not going to listen to warnings from "regular" editors as he thinks he knows better than all of us, and his actions will only discourage people from working on those articles to give them the final polish they need to be potential FL candidates. AnmaFinotera (talk) 15:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * So today, List of Keeping Up Appearances episodes was given a much needed update/clean up to bring it into line with the established format for episode lists. User:Edito*Magica reverted it then again put back in the version he prefers that he has already been told is not appropriate. He is also trying to get other users to come attack me  AnmaFinotera (talk) 01:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Create an RfC and if that fails to generate a resolution move on down WP:DR. However I note he's already making personal attacks--Crossmr (talk) 02:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Can an RfC cross multiple articles though? While he's concentrating on the KUA episode list at the moment, he's been trying with others as well. AnmaFinotera (talk) 03:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes because you're requesting comment on a certain formatting style.--Crossmr (talk) 14:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The thing is, the formatting style is already established. Edito*Magica is the one going against established consensus, and continuously attacking people in the process (mostly me, when I wasn't even the one who started the issue).  *sigh* AnmaFinotera (talk) 14:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Firstly it is Collectonian that is being abusive, calling me and others “inexperienced” and “trumps”. I have not said one bad word about her, only referring to the user as a “nightmare”. Secondly there is no consensus for altering an entire tabular layout on the K.U.A episode page, Collectonian changed the page drastically without discussion on the talk page or considering any other user than herself. The previous table layout of Keeping Up Appearances, which Collectonian changed, had been established after consensus and disputes that had been resolved.
 * Furthermore, my edits are following the rules of the “lead” and other sections of the manual of style, which is not even compulsory to follow, but I do so anyway. I will persist in reverting Collectonian’s edits until she sees sense. Edito*Magica (talk) 21:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Calling someone inexperienced is not abusive, its a fact. Please provide evidence that I called you or anyone else "trumps."  You have said a lot of bad words about me, insulting me on multiple user talk pages and in your edit summaries, and who continues to do things you've been warned by no less than FOUR editors not to do.  The KUA episode page was changed to bring it line with the MOS, the biggest consensus there is.  You are the one who has decided that you know better than three different large projects on Wikipedia and the general Wikipedia MOS.  Manuals of styles are not compulsory to follow to the letter, however articles that completely disregard them will never reach good or featured status (or in the case of lists, featured list).  Thank you, though, for illustrating why I didn't bother with an RfC or the like.  If you won't listen the whole projects, why would you listen to an RfC or anything else.  You have stated very plainly you will continue to be a disruptive editor and have no intention of actually working to improve the encyclopedia within its definition of improve, but only based on your own agenda. AnmaFinotera (talk) 00:05, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Just for completenesses sake can you provide links to all the discussions from the projects where they decided on style? Thanks.--Crossmr (talk) 15:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The consensus is reflected in the featured episode lists and in peer reviews of episode lists. For examples from current FLs: List of Meerkat Manor episodes, List of Trinity Blood episodes, List of Smallville episodes, List of Blue Drop: Tenshitachi no Gikyoku episodes, List of Carnivàle episodes, etc etc. For the TV project, users are directed to those and encouraged to use the episode list template here, the talk page of which also includes a discussion on the standard format that has now been implemented at KUA. BBC uses the same standard, with appropriate British English in place of American. Anime and Manga project also uses a similar standard, as is seen in the FLs. AnmaFinotera (talk) 15:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Another attack, in the form of a retalitory ANI filing without OUT the courtesy notice to tell me he filed it and making false accusations about me attacking other users and without mentioning any of the earlier stuff before I got involved when he edit warred with other editors over this and I came in as a project representative to try to stop it. AnmaFinotera (talk) 00:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Edito*Magica is continuing his crusade, now creating a whole new List of Goodnight Sweetheart Episodes. I quickly fixed it up and put it in the proper format, but I suspect he will only start another edit war there as well. He continues to ignore numerous other editors telling him he is wrong and continues so sling insults at editors he disagrees with. AnmaFinotera (talk) 23:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * As expected, he is now violently edit warring over this second list and has now violated 3RR. AnmaFinotera (talk) 00:51, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I’m not quite sure who these numerous editors who I am ignoring are, I suspect they are products of Collectonian’s imagination. As for the editors I have spoken to, well I have taken on board what they have said, regarding the “lead” on the Keeping Up Appearances Episode Page and decided it was better in paragraphs; that is hardly ignoring other editors. Secondly, I have not attacked any editor, in fact it is Collectonian who called me and another user: “inexperienced” and “trumps”, if anyone is being attacking it is Collectonian. Furthermore, Collectonian is also violently edit warring and has also broken the 3RR by constantly reverting the improvements I am TRYING to make.   Edito*Magica (talk) 01:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You've again made an accusation without providing evidence while others have already warned you for your personal attacks. You have also now blatantly ignored an administrator who warned you NOT to revert the List of Goodnight Sweetheart episodes again. AnmaFinotera (talk) 02:18, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well I’ve provided two pieces of evidence of YOUR attacks above. And no I did not ignore an administrator, I replies on his/her talk page. I have been wrongly accused.Edito*Magica (talk) 22:21, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Accusing is not evidence. You need to provide actual diffs showing that I called anyone a trump. You, meanwhile, have insulted me on multiple user talk pages and article talk pages, as shown by the diffs above. And yes, you did ignore him.  He told you very clearly NOT to revert, but you did anyway, resulting in the page being locked. AnmaFinotera (talk) 22:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I think you both need to cool off now. The best two editors can do once it's extremely clear they can't resolve an issue on their own is to lay out their concerns with an RFC and let others figure it out. Please go have fun on other articles and remember why you enjoy editing. Someguy1221 (talk) 09:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Both articles have been lost, but its hard to remember why I enjoy editing when Edito is running around attacking me on multiple user talk pages for doing what I do well, getting an episode list in good format and on the road to FL status. :( AnmaFinotera (talk) 09:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * And this is why I hope you both take my advice :-) (Remember, last editor to move on looks worse...race!) Someguy1221 (talk) 09:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * LOL. I'm working on other stuff (I have too much on my plate as is).  I honestly hope Edito will yield to consensus and not start up again when the lists are unprotected. AnmaFinotera (talk) 09:40, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

To all admins closing AfDs created on 10 Feb and 11 Feb
If you are closing an AfD which was created on 10 February or 11 February, you will see a "(delete)" link. Please do not click on it! Due to my egregrous screw-up it will delete the AfD page or whatever page you viewed the AfD from. I have just fixed the mistake (passed wrong parameter to the delete link). AfDs created on 12 February onwards will not have this problem. Pegasus &laquo;C&brvbar;T&raquo; 01:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Would this be all AfDs for 11 Feb, or just the ones in the first hour or so before the error was caught (per your timestamp above)? Thanks for the heads up. UltraExactZZ Claims~ Evidence 13:43, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Strictly speaking, those AfDs created after the timestamp of my previous comment will be okay (I fixed the template a few minutes before that.) But I'm mentioning dates only, to be on the safe side. Pegasus &laquo;C&brvbar;T&raquo; 17:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Fake timestamp for bot: Pegasus &laquo;C&brvbar;T&raquo; 17:50, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Zenwhat blocked again
I've blocked for continued trolling after Jimbo explicitly asked him to stop. He continued here and was reverted by User:Crum375. As a result, I've blocked him for a week. Since this editor's conduct is currently being discussed in an above section that may be archived soon, I have started a new section for further discussion. Nakon 05:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is the first of this user's blocks that I actually endorse. Which is a shame, since I think that were it not for the previous ill-advised blocks, he might never have stooped to the level of deserving blocks.  But he's responsible for his own conduct, and today his conduct hasn't been good. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 05:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, this is exactly the kind of behavior I have come to expect from Zenwhat. He has been posting tripe like this at the Village Pump for some time, and its been getting tiresome.  This is not new behavior since the last blocking above, and I do not expect this to stop when the block expires.  I would really love Zenwhat to prove me wrong, but his past behavior has not led me to believe that that will happen.  I endorse this block, and pray that he returns from it with a better attitude.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  05:54, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've gotta endorse Nakon's actions. When Jimbo says "stop trolling" you stop trolling. A week (as opposed to a longer, perma block/ban) is being generous.  MBisanz  talk 05:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not being snarky, but if all he wants to do is discuss meta issues, perhaps someone should point him to an offsite area to do this, like the mailing list, forums, blogs, or whatever. I'm just saying the guy really likes talking about Wikipedia, maybe he can blow off steam elsewhere.  daveh4h 08:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If he put that energy into article editing-- wow. I think he has problems not necessarily related to Wikipedia, and that he should better spend his energy elsewhere. The one week block is fine for the sake of reducing the disruption level. I don't foresee any change in his editing patterns after the block expires.  Dloh  cierekim  Deleted?  08:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, Dave, he seems to have done just that and moved some of his efforts to Meta (m:Special:Contributions/Zenwhat), but aside from some possibly license-breaking copy-and-paste moves, his contributions there seem to be on the up-and-up. -- jonny - m t  08:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, I cannot bring myself to see his posts as anything else than a bit distressed and eccentric, but also rather interesting meta comment. That someone who adores Ayn Rand has considerable difficulties sharing that perspective doesn't come as a big surprise. User:Dorftrottel 10:55, February 12, 2008
 * If I were a meta admin, I'd probably be inclined to do something about . --B (talk) 13:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree with Dorftrottel, for the most part. My only concern is that repeatedly banning this user will make him back come more outrageous than the last time and eventually turn him against the project entirely.  Some may say that he is already against the project-but I disagree.  If he were, he wouldn't spend so much time commenting on it.  That said, I don't see any of this ending well, unfortunately. :-(  If he is doing this for attention, then the offsite alternatives like meta, mailing lists, and message boards won't provide him enough.  I find it easy enough to avoid his commentary if I find it annoying.  Violating the sanctity of Jimbo's talk page seems to be the latest offense.  If he said it elsewhere it probably would have gone unnoticed.  This user either has other problems or he just hasn't understood the subtleties of how to interact here yet, which is something to consider.   I still think he should be encouraged to read and interact at other meta sites, maybe he can find something positive to do.  daveh4h 17:42, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Fully agree, particularly with the word encourage. That's the key, imo. Discouraging him is definitely counterproductive. Maybe his energies can be gently directed into more appropriate channels, so why not give it a shot instead of jumping the gun on him (npi)? User:Dorftrottel 17:50, February 12, 2008
 * Much as I apperciate Jimbo, "the sanctity of his Talk page" seems a bit excessive. Regardless, I do think Zenwhat is a tragic case of what happens when a Wikipedian is brought low by what we call Wikistress, and a downward spiral of incivility between editors. -- RoninBK T C 18:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Move?
I've seen a lot of discussions come up about Zenwhat in the past few days. To keep all discussions centralized and in one place, I think it would make sense to have discussions located at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/User:Zenwhat. Opinions (note, I will move this discussion if users below agree). Regards, D.M.N. (talk) 15:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that is a good idea. daveh4h 17:42, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt it will be necessary, especially with the most recent block. - <font color="#0000cd">auburn <font color="#EF6521">pilot  talk  21:08, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I do not think this is a good idea. (In general, I dislike moving discussions to sub pages, as the discussion is then fractured and the audience narrowed.)  --Iamunknown 21:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, I can only think of one other instance where it was done, and in that case there were issues with th user inquestion being able to edit pages >32K and extreme formatting difficulties.  MBisanz  talk 21:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk page protected
Per a request at WP:RFPP, I fully protected User talk:Zenwhat and reverted it. As you can see here, Zenwhat was continuing on the same sort of trolling that got him blocked in the first place. Just a long monologue about who-knows-what - conspiracies against him, etc. No discussion about wanting to be unblocked, no discussion about anything related to writing an encyclopedia, etc. Just a blog. Sorry, but to me, a week-long block is a week-long block. It doesn't mean a week of blogging. He can go about blogging when it expires.

Not particularly surprising, I've been called out on it so here I am for community review. If consensus here is to unprotect and let Zenwhat continue his blogging and pondering now instead of a week from now, then I welcome someone to unprotect it. —Wknight94 (talk) 22:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Good block, good protection. Wikipedia isn't a place for conspiracy-theory soapboxing. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Endorse. He was blocked, in part, for disseminating these pointless dull ramblings. Providing airtime for him to continue to use our bandwidth to witter on is pointless. Extended-RBI correctly employed. ➔ REDVEЯS has changed his plea to guilty 22:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I won't act against consensus, but I see the talk page protection as pointless. Ranting privately on his talk page seems harmless, and protecting pages like that is what gives complainers fodder. Do we wish to make Zenwhat into a hero for WR and the like? -GTBacchus(talk) 22:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Creating an account to do nothing but chat with your friends is even more harmless - but try it and see how fast you're permablocked (after you're caught anyway). WP:NOT.  In this case, he was ranting about particular users conspiring against him - mentioning them by name - all while already blocked.  He should thank me for protecting him from himself while he cools off for a week.  As far as making him a hero for WR, sorry but I couldn't possibly care less.  —Wknight94 (talk) 22:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Not caring what WR says is a healthy attitude, sure. I just think it's foolish to encourage people's unwarranted feelings of persecution, and that's what a protection like this does. If he wants to think that we wish to "silence" him, we're now encouraging that. I think it's better to just let him go off on his talk page (it's not as if he's got any credibility). Like I said though, I won't act against consensus. I just think we could handle such a situation better. -GTBacchus(talk) 21:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't consider Zenwhat's comments on his talk page to be trolling (posting rambling comments to one's own talk page - which people can readily unwatchlist and ignore - hardly seems to qualify as deliberate attempts at disruption) and I don't think his use of his talk page was particularly abusive (as mentioned in the protection log). I would support unprotecting his talk page. --Iamunknown 22:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * So would I. Not my call though. User:Dorftrottel 23:07, February 12, 2008


 * Protecting the talk-page (it is only for a week) is a good call. Otherwise ZW can continue to post rubbish as has been happening for weeks, and this rubbish includes attacking insulting, misrepresenting, other users egregiously,(to no purpose whatsoever, except to gain attention). If I have to watch the page, to see myself slanderered, I would have to revert such rubbish off the page. I think I have the right to repair such damage on a WPpage put up by a blocked User. Why should I or others be forced to such troubles by a nuisance editor, and then run the risk of being blocked oneself? Wish I didn't have to say this, but Do not feed the trolls applies, as ZW has said so themself. ZW may in time learn to contribute without all the aggro and self-importance, (in time, but not at this time, so its preventative, not punitive.) Newbyguesses - Talk 00:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I dunno. First of all, you don't have to watch the page. Several others of us are on it. Second, if I see myself being "slandered" there, I would consider it my job to either ignore it or to politely correct any inaccuracies, per dispute resolution. I don't know why you think you would run the risk of being blocked yourself. Edit warring with anyone over their own talk page is the height of folly, when there are literally hundreds of people standing around who would be happy to revert it for you. If you truly know how not to feed trolls, then you can simply ignore them, without having to protect their talk page, and justify their paranoia in their own minds. -GTBacchus(talk) 21:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Let him use his talk page for ranting. If he insults or attacks other editors (not Wikipedia in general - railing against Wikipedia in general is fine), we can extend his block.  If he doesn't, then there's no problem. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#060">Neıl  <u style="text-decoration:none;color:#060">☎  09:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm with Neil on this one. If he was abusing unblock templates I'd think differently, but if he's just ranting and it's hurting nobody, let him. Orderinchaos 15:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I would tend to agree, but (and I understand this isn't policy, but a guideline) isn't personal opinion and ranting about conspiracy ad nauseum a breach of WP:TALK? I mean, it's almost literally the first line in the heading for proper use of a talk page. If he/she slanders, makes threats (physical or legal) etc.., then it is completely unacceptable. It may result in a block. However, what is the overall consensus regarding disruptive talk page usage as displayed here? <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 07:41, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

ZW is editing, but the protected page says "Retired"
I am mystified as to how ZW can make this edit, whilst "retired", and under discussion at AN/I for the (third time). Newbyguesses - Talk 19:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That edit is almost a week old: February 7. —Wknight94 (talk) 19:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * ZW is blocked until the 19th. Addhoc (talk) 19:04, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I misread the edit history at WP:IAR. The edit which confused me was and it is not done by User:Zenwhat at all. It is done by 18:02, 13 February 2008 192.235.8.2 (Talk). Newbyguesses - Talk 19:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Socking?
ZW, and blocked User Karmaisking. (Separate AN/I thread below}See ...You and I both know the game. People want us to shut up. They threaten. They harrass. They hate the truth. Why do we keep going? I don't have the patience, or the time. I welcome and encourage you, a like-minded fellow traveller on this dangerous journey of life, to got into my talk page history and check out the old correspondence...User:Karmaisking 11:01, 14 February 2008 (UTC) This sounds a little familiar to me, though it is very slim as evidence goes. See also here and similar questions in ZW's previous threads at AN/I. (I hope I am not coming across as obsessing over these matters, but merely trying to discover the evidence - perhaps there is no black and white, and it all belongs in the grey zone;) Newbyguesses - Talk 12:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Um, where did this thread go? Newbyguesses - Talk 22:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It was archived by User:MiszaBot II because no one commented on it for 24 hours. Me thinks that needs to stop. Permanent link at Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive368 — <font color="007FFF">Save_Us  †  23:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Socks are always losing threads. You know how it is. HalfShadow (talk) 23:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

To all those of you who said Zenwhat wasn't helpful
He's now filed a bug report complaining that he can still edit while blocked. He tries to be helpful, you know. (It was marked as invalid, mind you.) • <font color="#539">Anakin (talk) 15:09, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

IP reverts on Prem Rawat
Four similar reverts have occured in a timespan of less than an hour on Prem Rawat:
 * 22:13, 15 February 2008
 * 22:23, 15 February 2008
 * 23:01, 15 February 2008
 * 23:11, 15 February 2008
 * 23:01, 15 February 2008
 * 23:11, 15 February 2008
 * 23:11, 15 February 2008

1) Don't know whether these are linked, nor how very well to check that.

2) when reading intro of WP:RCU, that page does not seem an appropriate place to have this checked (or am I wrong?)

3) I'm an "involved party" by now, so I'd like someone else to look into this (if this is anything that should be looked into).

Tx. --Francis Schonken (talk) 23:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Will Beback seems to think the IPs might be  - file a WP:RCU now? Don't know, might be premature, and I've been harsh on Momento just a few days ago. --Francis Schonken (talk) 23:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know who they are, but the intent appears to be to circumvent 3RR. While there is a claim that removing BLP violations doesn't violate 3RR, the claim of BLP violations is disputed and it isn't an excuse to violate all other policies or to edit war without seeking consensus. The external links have been a point of contention throughout the history of the article. It would be helpful if all parties would seek a resolution. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 00:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This was going to be my response essentially - Instead of edit warring, attempt a lightweight mediation. On the talk page of the article implement a WP:RFC so that all parties involved, and other casual editors of the article, can participate. This would help build consensus. However, in the mean time, if the same IPs (again, not sure if they're the same user circumventing 3RR) continue to blank the EL section without discussion, use the traditional warning templates and then a report to WP:AIV. <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 01:19, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Francis Schonken's repeating of Will Beback's suggestion is outrageous. These editors could have asked for a WP:RCU without mentioning my name but are trying to create on aura of guilt by association. A WP:RCU will exonerate me and I apply for one. Thanks.Momento (talk) 00:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Note that a RCU can not be initiated without mentioning names (i.e. user accounts), it seems not possible to submit such a request mentioning IP's only. That's why I wrote above: "when reading [the] intro of WP:RCU, that page does not seem an appropriate place to have this checked (or am I wrong?)" --Francis Schonken (talk) 06:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * WP:RCU cannot exonerate a user of mischief, it can only confirm it. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 03:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * A WP:RCU will exonerate me from your suggestion that I have used the IPs in question and that is what we are discussing.Momento (talk) 05:54, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've never suggested that you used IPs - I asked you if you did. You denied and I accept your denial. What we are discussing is disruption to the article by an editor using IPs. We still don't know who did it. It doesn't matter so long as it stops. If it continues we'll need to deal with it somehow. Meanwhile let's work towards resolving the external links dispute on the article talk page. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 05:59, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

“Likely” (not merely suspected) sock- or meatpuppetry by Triberocker
I requested a checkuser on Triberocker, concerning some inappropriate anonymous edits to “Phi Kappa Psi”. The outcome was “likely”. But I've seen no indication from his blocklog or from his talk page that action has been taken. I read on RfC that “In most cases, any block or other action based on the outcome will not be taken by the checkuser-people or the clerks. Instead, you will have to do this yourself.” but I'm not an admin.

As noted in request for checkuser, the edits are not in good faith; for example one anonymous edit summary falsely claimed to have moved the material elsewhere. The over-all objective of the edits is to erase some notable history concerning a gang-rape. (The issue of appropriateness of this history to the article was the subject of a prior mediation, albeït not one to which Triberocker was a party.)

Before I requested the checkuser, I told Triberocker that he could be shown to be the responsible party and that the edit summary mentioned above could be shown to be false (with the implication being that the edits are not in good faith); I advised him to stop editting the article. His response was to challenge me to prove that the edits were his. —SlamDiego&#8592;T 02:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Was this sock-puppetry deceptive in some way? That is, was he actively pretending to be two people to give the false impression of consensus, or to get around WP:3RR, or similar?  Otherwise, I don't think a block based on checkuser results is appropriate or necessary.  As for any other disruptive editing he might do, I see that he's agreed to stay away from that article; given that blocks are preventative rather than punitive, my inclination would be to leave things be unless problems continue. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 03:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, on more than one count. For example, the summary of the last of these edits declared “Everyone else is right...”, and the edits jointly violate WP:3RR.
 * Reasonable people might have different ideas about what administrative action is necessary, but at present there has been no administrative action upon the results of the checkuser.
 * And he appears to look at this situation as a feud. For example, after the checkuser result, I gave myself a temporary link to his block log, so that I could see what (if anything) followed.  He responded as if this were a tit-for-tat thing. —SlamDiego&#8592;T 03:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I should also note that he declared that he had decided to stay away from this article before the -puppets began editting (which claim was falsified by the checkuser), and I am not aware of him making a subsequent pledge to absent himself. —SlamDiego&#8592;T 05:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It seems like a fairly clear case of, at best, meatpuppetry. I've blocked the /18 subnet covering the range from which the anons have been coming&mdash; but it's a large chunk of Valparaiso University's network so I've kept the block short and anon-only.  This should dissuade "drive-by" vandalism from random frat boys.  &mdash; Coren (talk) 18:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Log/2008 February 16
I found this page blank then restored it. I just want youo to check if I fixed it correctly. I re-added User:Phanto282's Afd, problem is Mt Eliza Cricket Club isn't even up for deletion.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 14:50, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks okay to me. - Rjd0060 (talk) 16:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Handling sock puppetry (block review)


Hi. I've only tangentially become involved with one or two sock puppetry cases in the past and would appreciate assistance from someone more experienced in dealing with them. Revisiting Incivility...Griot above, an editor to whom I'd given feedback on a BLP concern asked my advice on my talk page how to proceed in the case of suspected sock puppetry. He (pardon if I'm using the wrong pronoun) followed up at checkuser and confirmed that User:Sedlam evidently is a sock puppet being used to thwart policy by User:Griot. I know that per policy User:Sedlam is blocked as a matter of course as an inappropriately used alternative account. (Please correct me if I've left the wrong templates.) I'm not sure what's to be done about User:Griot. A warning? A label? He is a long-standing editor who has as far as I know has never had a problem of this sort in the past, although it seems he was blocked on the 31st of January, 2008 for edit warring, I presume on Matt Gonzalez based on this note. My only experiences with Griot prior to this were in relation to the article Cabretta, and though we haven't always agreed he seemed like a constructive contributor. Perhaps some political topics are too emotionally engaging? --Moonriddengirl (talk) 23:22, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

If he was using a bad-hand sockpuppet to edit abusively, then both the primary and bad hand account should probably be blocked (based on a review of the edits in question). This is something the checkusers or checkuser clerks typically take care of, have they weighed in? <strong style="color:#fff;background:#000;border:1px solid #ccf">Avruch <strong style="color:#fff;background:#000;border:1px solid #ccf">talk 00:04, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Other than confirming the check-user and the policy thwarting use of the account, no. I'm not sure they're going to. I notice that the matter was completed at 20:50 on February 8, and at the top of Requests for checkuser, it says "In most cases, any block or other action based on the outcome will not be taken by the checkuser-people or the clerks. Instead, uyou will have to do this yourself." I'm not sure which cases constitute most. This is as close to check user as I've personally ever come. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * And so they did. :) Thanks for weighing in, Avruch. If I ever wind up in this situation again, I'll just wait a day to see if this falls into one of those "action to be taken" or "action not to be taken" situations. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:36, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Griot indef blocked?
Though we punish people who abusively sockpuppet, Griot is a longtime user in generally good standing prior to this incident.

However, the current block levied is indef against his main account.

This appears to be excessive and uncalled for. I agree that his sockpuppetry was abusive, but not indef-blocked abusive. A week, maybe?

Comments sought. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree 100% with this assessment. I have no data relevant to this specific situ, but I do have years of positive experience with User:Griot. If indeed Griot is guilty, then he has some serious explaining to do and perhaps penance of some kind. But indef block seems way extreme unless the sockpuppetry is repeated and sustained. BusterD (talk) 02:28, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I have no input on the proper length of a block for this situation, obviously, or I wouldn't have brought this here to begin with. :) I did not block the primary account myself because of his history, but as I said above, I have no experience with sock puppetry to speak of. I would like to note that the editor who initially requested the checkuser believes that Griot may have abused other accounts as well, as he indicated in a more recent note at my talkpage (a belief mirrored by the now blocked IP editor above). I don't know on what evidence or if these allegations are correct, but other suspicions seem to have been confirmed by checkuser. Is this the sort of thing that should be investigated prior to making final calls or only if Griot returns and concerns persist? --Moonriddengirl (talk) 02:40, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm the editor who requested the checkuser on User:Griot. I have no opinion on any action to take. I would like to add the following, though. User:Griot didn't simply switch back and forth and revert and be done with it. He made a self conscious planned out effort to deceive, and presented not just reverts, but purposively deceptive talk page commentary. For instance, on the talk page, to portray some sort of "compromise" having been reached, he writes "Please click the links and observe how other editors rejected your edit:" and then lists himself and his confirmed sock puppet (and one other editor of unknown relationship to this). Then, he logs out as Griot, logs in as User:Sedlam, and writes ":You can add me to this list of compromisers." On the BLP noticeboard, Both Griot and another likely sock User:Feedler, both gave input. As Moonriddengirl mentioned, I have reason to believe the sock puppetry by Griot goes back a ways on Nader-related articles, but wasn;t caught (although the issue seems to have been raised, but the complainant seems to have gotten blocked). Griot seems to have been vigourously edit warring on Nader article for a year or so. Elsewhere, he has confessed to have a serious personal grudge against Nader. Boodlesthecat (talk) 03:55, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

The indef block is abnormal in this situation and unwarranted, in my opinion. Has the blocking admin commented? --Akhilleus (talk) 05:31, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Evidently, here, where she has indicated a willingness to go along with consensus and suggested this discussion. Personally, I'm wondering if a topical ban would be appropriate in the event that the block is made definite. It seems the sock account was used primarily to thwart consensus building and disguise edit warring on Ralph Nader and Ralph Nader's presidential campaigns. Perhaps this is evidence that the user is too emotionally invested in these articles to contribute to them as he does elsewhere? --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:47, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe. Looking at the history of those articles, it looks like there's a lot of editing by drive-by IPs, SPAs, possible socks, etc. We know that one of the editors on the "other side" from Griot is a persistent sockpuppeteer. So my question is, has Griot been editing abusively for a long period (in which case I'd support a topic ban), or did he only turn to sockpuppetry recently after getting frustrated by the editing environment? (Either way, the use of socks is not good, and if he does it again, the block should be much longer...) --Akhilleus (talk) 15:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know. I suppose it might be worth asking Boodlesthecat the proceed with investigating his other suspicions to find out. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 15:57, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Adjust the block to be slightly less than that used against the person who opposed the user via the same tactics. <span style="font:bold 11px Arial;display:inline;border:#151B8D 1px solid;background-color:#ADDFFF;padding:0 4px 0 4px;">Lambton T/C 21:57, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you mean slightly less than the IP editor recently blocked for 6 months here as a sock of User:Telogen, who was indef blocked here, or are there yet more Nader-fighting socks that I don't know about? :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Reduced block
The handling of this matter was over the top IMO. As an uninvolved editor/admin, and after reading the above, I have reset the duration to one week (it says 6 days, but note a day had elapsed since the block was enacted). Consensus here should determine whether further reduction or an unblock is warranted. I am particularly surprised at the treatment of the user's user and talk pages, which I have reverted to their pre-9 Feb state, and the ignoring of the blatant incivility of Boodlesthecat by those handling the case. I will be placing a warning on his talk page shortly - ( done). Orderinchaos 06:03, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * My response to the inference of incivility is here.. Boodlesthecat (talk) 22:09, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with User:Orderinchaos. As a relatively frequent reviewer of sockpuppetry cases at WP:SSP, the standard practice has been to block named abusive socks indefinitely, but to block the master account for a finite period if it appears to have at least some constructive potential. I typically block for 72 hours (see User:Lucy-marie, for example), though others use anything from 24 hours to a week. In any case, the master account (Griot) should definitely be blocked, but for a finite period (72 hours to 1 week). Further confirmed sockpuppetry should result in a lengthy or indefinite block, but an indefinite block for a first offense by a somewhat-constructive account is excessive. MastCell Talk 22:35, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Longstanding sock puppetry by Griot
I filed another Checkuser showing the very extended sock puppetry of Griot over here. Boodlesthecat (talk) 22:06, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Griot deliberately misrepresenting me on his talk page
<div class="boilerplate metadata" style="background-color: #edeaff; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #8779DD;">
 * The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.  No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Which I don't think is allowed is not allowed on Wikipedia talk pages, so reverted it back to the original conversation. This can be seen here along with my comments on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Griot&action=history This must be considered uncivil behavior. I reverted it back to the original and he did it again. He has done it again, saying (this is my talk page) - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Griot&diff=prev&oldid=190710037<br\> However Wikipedia talk pages are not the place for purposefully misrepresenting fellow editors in a bad light.<br\> WP:Talk_page states that Article talk pages are provided for discussion of the content of articles and the views of reliable published sources. They should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views.<br\> And I am certain they are also not meant to be used in the way Griot is using his. Can someone please have him either remove all conversations between me and him from his talk page or leave the whole conversation exactly as it originally was? Thanks. BillyTFried (talk) 21:47, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Did I or did I not warn you to stop edit harrassing and warring with him on his talk page?
 * Anyone who wishes can see the old versions and edit history. Stop bothering him. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 07:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Case of "nothing to see here, move along". Seems the guy archived or removed some comments from his talk page. Orderinchaos 09:42, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Amongst the comments removed are challenges to transparently false statements on his talk page that attempt to portray his history on the articles he has edit warred on for years in an undeservedly favorable light. Which of course is his right. Boodlesthecat (talk) 17:02, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * As I told Billy, the history of what people have commented on there on his talk page remains for anyone who cares to dig. Our user talk page policy allows one to remove comments and warnings once they've been read, though a lot of people object to it.  Policy remains what it is, though, so Griot is within his perogative, and edit-warring to restore content there is against policy etc.  Best for everyone to just drop the situation - everyone knows about the CU results now, that's not going away, if he wants to clean up the talk page and protect some personal dignity then leave him alone.  Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently BillyTFried considers what has been left on Griot's Talk page is a personal attack on him. Perhaps the personal attack should be archived the same way Griot archived the other material.  -- SEWilco (talk) 16:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes I do consider it an incivil personal attack and attempted defamation of character. And its beyond me why nobody is doing anything about it. Not even just telling him to either delete all my comments or leave them the way they truly happened. Seriously, I was warned and even blocked for a couple hours once for calling him "hysterically paranoid" on my OWN Talk Page. How is this any different? Is Griot somehow immune? BillyTFried (talk) 23:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Ya know, would it be ok if somebody posted a setnence on my talk page that said...<br\> And I changed that user's comment to say... Would that be ok with you guys? Hey, it's all in the "history" right? BillyTFried (talk) 23:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey Bill I wanted you to know that I plan to kill the whole trivia section of that article that you wrote.
 * Hey Bill I wanted you to know... that I plan to kill... you.

Newspaper Article<br\> I just wanted you to know that the reason Griot did this and that I am so VERY upset about his purposeful misrepresentation of me which you have done nothing about is because there is a Newspaper article about Wikipedia hitting the presses tomorrow morning here in San Francisco and Griot (who is currently banned for abuse) and his abuses and sock puppetry are the main focus of the article and this will surely bring traffic to his page which shows me in an unfair light thanks to him editing out our entire conversation and making it look like it happened in a way that it actually DID NOT. (he actually deleted 90% of his talk page except for the few items left he wants highlighted [inaccurately]) My Wikipedia user name (WHICH IS MY REAL NAME THAT MY HOME ADDRESS CAN BE GOOGLED FROM) is also briefly mentioned in the article referencing that event. Griot is of course an anonymous name. I find it completely unprofessional for his misrepresentation of our conversation to be left intact when it clearly violates Wikipedia's rules on what Talk pages are for and breaks incivility rules. I am asking one more time that you please address this issue before tomorrow when many people that live here in San Francisco will be reading this article, logging on to Wikipedia and then reading an unfairly edited chop up of a conversation I had with Griot that was chopped intentionally to make me look as bad as possibly... as if I was actually threatening him with GUN VIOLENCE, which was not what I was doing AT ALL, and that was ruled to be THE TRUTH by the admins after he REPORTED ME. I was NOT banned by the admins, though Griot said I was on his talk page, and when I removed that 100% lie, he didn't fight back. But his purposely editing out of the rest of the convo to make it APPEAR to be a violent threat with a gun will go over REAL WELL in San Francisco. At the very least please review exactly what has gone on here and ask yourself if what he has done is appropriate and that your allowing it is the right thing to do. Thanks. BillyTFried (talk) 03:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You know, based on that outburst, interested readers coming here and seeing that are NOT going to be coming to the conclusion about you that you think they're going to come to. --Calton | Talk 16:37, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I was thinking of responding earlier, but you've captured my thinking rather well. Orderinchaos 18:17, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

And just exactly what conclusion do you think "interested readers" will come to about you from your constant unrelenting defense of a confirmed sock puppeteer? BillyTFried (talk) 00:41, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * In the section below, it would seem that there's a case here of the pot calling the kettle black. Orderinchaos 11:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Whatever. At least I'm on the side of honesty rather than the side of deceit or tolerance of deceit, which is exactly what will eventually cause the downfall of Wikipedia. And everyone knows it. BillyTFried (talk) 22:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * At least I'm on the side of honesty rather than the side of deceit or tolerance of deceit - hence your whole-hearted embrace of a long-banned, anger-management-impaired, and self-promoting sockpuppeteer who got her sister to practice a little yellow journalism on the side? Hence your abusive outburst above complaining about abuse? Strange new meaning of the word "honesty" of which I was previously unaware. --Calton | Talk 14:09, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

My whole-hearted embrace of who??? I have no idea what you're talking about and if you want to hold on to what little credibility you have left, I suggest you refrain from making any more false accusations with absolutely no evidence to back them up. Let's get the facts straight here. I have never supported or embraced a sock puppeteer on Wikipedia and never will. I think it's an extremely shameful behavior that I would never want to be associated with. You however very obviously have and continue to do so. You are clearly guilty as charged and so instead of hopelessly trying to refute that charge you instead go on the offensive and falsely accuse me of doing the very thing that everyone is witnessing you doing. That's pretty ridiculous. Is defending confirmed sock puppeteer Griot really worth eroding your own credibility like this? And since you're struggling with the word honesty, here's a hint for you... Leaving people's talk page comments as they originally were posted = HONEST... Removing all but one paragraph to make them appear to have happened in a manner which they did not = DISHONEST. BillyTFried (talk) 19:04, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You know, based on that outburst, interested readers coming here and seeing that are NOT going to be coming to the conclusion about you that you think they're going to come to, however well a reporter tried to paint you. Hint: when in a hole, it's best to stop digging. --Calton | Talk 20:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Calton, I just stumbled in, but I didn't see anything abusive that Billy said. He seems to be in honest anguish about something, and he made some complaints, but he was not abusive. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

You're not much for originality eh? Nothing on my end needs painting. But I believe making false accusations and openly defending a confirmed sock puppet would indicate it is you who is holding the shovel and is in way over his head. BillyTFried (talk) 20:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * But I believe making false accusations and openly defending a confirmed sock puppet "Mr. Pot? It's Mr. Kettle on Line 3. He says you're black." The "in way over his head" part is just a bonus bit of irony.


 * You can put down that shovel any time now, you know. And I didn't realize that originality was a criteria in giving sound advice. Should I move the words around a bit for you, translate it into hieroglyphics, recast it into blank verse? There's no real value in rewriting a message you don't want to pay attention to in the first place. --Calton | Talk 21:03, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Calton, your tired and insulting guilt by association attacks on other editors are getting to be a monstrous snore, and transparently disingenous. It was you who dragged me into this muck with a false and malicious insinuation of sock puppetry on my part, for which you not only never apologized, but instead leveled a steady torrent of abuse my way. On top of which, you never acknowledge your own complicity with the proven sock puppeteer and tabloid pheenom GRIOT. Why not just knock it off already and quit making a spectacle of yourself? Some of us are simply interested in working on articles on achieving a bit of balance on Wikipedia, and really could care less for the silly dramas we get sucked into (e.g., by my having to waste time filing the successful sock puppetry notice against GRIOT while you were busy filing a bogus one against me--not to late to apologize!). Boodlesthecat (talk) 21:41, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Calton, your pot/kettle comment is suggesting that I am the one who has made a false accusations and defended a sock puppeteer. What false accusation have I made? What sock puppeteer have I defended?<br\> --BillyTFried (talk) 21:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You have aligned yourself with and defended a confirmed and presently banned sock puppeteer, Griot - True or False?
 * You have accused me of "wholeheartedly embracing a long-banned, anger-management-impaired, and self-promoting sock puppeteer" but never named the user or gave any proof of such. What is the name of this user and where is the diff showing me "embracing" or even being involved in a discussion with or about this this person? If what you have accused me of really never happened at all, is that not in fact a false accusation?
 * What is your purpose posting in this ANI discussion I started? To purport that Griot altering my comments on his talk page to make the conversation appear differently than it really occurred is NOT incivil? Or is there something else you are trying to accomplish?
 * The answer to the second question is self-evident - this checkuser contains the relevant information. Orderinchaos 16:43, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

You mean the FACT that I have NEVER posted a single word ANYWHERE on Wikipedia in ANY discussion with or about that user is self evident?? Let alone wholeheartedly embraced him or her?? You must be part of the Griot/Calton alliance to be bold enough to try and back up Calton's very obviously false accusation. So tell me, are there more troops on the way? BillyTFried (talk) 18:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't even know either editor. I've seen Calton's work on image copyrights a year or so ago and had seen the odd comment here, but I've never interacted with him. The first I'd heard of this mess was on here a few days ago, as I regularly read AN/I. Please don't accuse everyone who disagrees with you of conspiracy - it makes you look faintly absurd. Orderinchaos 16:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

First you make the false accusation about me that it was "self-evident" that I was somehow affiliated with the banned user Telegon, and I pointed out that you were flat out wrong and that I have never been involved in a discussion with or about that person EVER. Then you claim neutrality yourself despite being the one who reduced Griot's ban and posting on his talk page in the section titled "Looks like you've been set up" to which you replied, "Agreed" as if to say you believe he was framed and is somehow innocent despite being a CONFIRMED sock puppeteer. Then you violate WP:CIVIL and WP:PA by calling me absurd. I believe a review of your involvement in this whole situation is absolutely in order. BillyTFried (talk) 00:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

THIS IS NOW RESOLVED. All offending info has been removed on both sides
Thanks. BillyTFried (talk) 01:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Now Kurykh is vandalizing my talk page
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:BillyTFried&diff=191960070&oldid=191076649 Is an admin going to anything about this or what? Griot is allowed to purposefully misrepresent a conversation with me on his own talk page which I am not allowed to revert back to the original but Kurykh feels it's ok for him to make massive changes to my talk page? This situation is getting more ridiculous by the minute. BillyTFried (talk) 01:04, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Your obsession with Griot is ever the more ridiculous. While I don't know anything about the dispute, and I do not necessarily condone Griot's actions, your posting of gloating and harassing material on your user talk page is beneath contempt and a brazen violation of our policies. And before you make further frivolous accusations, please read up on what vandalism is before further commenting. Making false allegations only debases your own case. — Kurykh  01:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Griot removed EVERYTHING on his talk page but the ANI, Mary Spicuzza stuff, and a SINGLE PARAGRAGH taken out of context from conversation I had with him that he deleted all but one comment to make them appear in a way they did not. SO, I did roughly the same thing but included the ENTIRE CONVERSATION. And when I was warned not to revert his page back to the original I made this complain in this ANI and now you have stepped in not revert MY TALK PAGE AND NOT HIS?!?!?!?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by BillyTFried BillyTFried (talk) 01:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Tu quoque, or lack of, is not a valid excuse. Just because I did not check up on him does not excuse your behavior, or rather, lack of it. — Kurykh  01:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

But if his misrepresenting me on his talk page is apparently NOT a violation of any Wikipedia rules then how is my displaying the original conversation as it happened breaking any? BillyTFried (talk) 01:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I never said anything about Griot's pages, did I? — Kurykh  01:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I have removed what seems to be the offensive section on Griot's talk page. — Kurykh  01:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

User talk:BillyTFried protected
I've protected BillyTFried's talk page for 48 hours in light of the edit warring and problematic content. If anybody wishes to delete the content or unprotect the page however, please feel free. Nick (talk) 01:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * "Edit warring" by undoing vandalism of my own talk page??? You guys have go to be kidding me. Report a user for misrepresenting you on his talk page, then get warned for trying to revert his back to the original true version, then type up the convo on your own talk page for anyone to see the convo as to REALY happened, then complain to admins on ANI, theh get told its his talk page and he can do what he wants (its all in the history) then get ganged up on by Griots affiliates, then get you own talk page locked for the same thing you have accused Griot of when you merely are showing the convo the way oft really happened. If this is not a joke I don't know what is. BillyTFried (talk) 01:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

This situation is now resolved
All offending material from both pages has been removed. Thanks. BillyTFried (talk) 01:33, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article in San Francisco Weekly
here is the San Francisco Weekly article that BillyTFried refers to above. I don't think I would be exaggerating too much if I said that it attempts to out an anonymous Wikipedia editor, contains numerous insults that would, if they appeared on Wikipedia, be a violation of WP:NPA, and is by the sister of a banned sockpuppeteer (see, e.g., Requests for checkuser/Case/Telogen) to boot. According to a previous thread on this board, the reporter (User:Marynega) was in contact with Wikipedia PR and a number of Wikipedians; I trust that nobody knew what the content of the article was going to be, but it's still a bit distressing that this piece got produced with the help of Foundation members. --Akhilleus (talk) 04:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Crude hatchet-job. I'm surprised she got it past her editors. I've already dashed off a quick Letter to the Editor pointing out a conflict of interest or two that the reporter neglected to mention, including quoting a banned sockpuppet of her own sister without mentioning that fact: seems a wee lapse of journalistic ethics, there. --Calton | Talk 16:37, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Is it this paragraph that makes you feel that way?

That's when Jeanne, who is also a writer, told me of a debate over the entry about her in Wikipedia — and of one particular user, Griot, who seemed to be on a no-holds-barred campaign to delete her page after he blamed her for making dubious edits to Ralph Nader's page (which she denies). One Griot note on the talk page of a user called Calton, dated Aug. 27, 2007, reads, "Is there anything we can do about Jean [sic]? It's tiresome. Maybe we should give her back her personal page on Wikpedia so she isn't so lonely." He also accused her of creating several online identities to make a flurry of changes to the Nader entries. "Spicuzza is on the warpath again," Griot wrote to Calton, and made a snarky offer to Calton about my sister: "If you ever need help fending off this multiple personality disorder, don't hesitate to ask."
 * Is what the reporter said about you a lie? What she said about me is certainly hard to believe... ;-)
 * Fried actually struck me as a well-meaning and earnest editor — one of the few willing to use his real name (and even agreeing to meet in person) to talk about his devotion to Wikipedia.

BillyTFried (talk) 21:50, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * No, the ENTIRE article is a crude hatchet-job, an attempt at character assassination by a reporter on behalf of her sister, misusing the resources and name of a bonafide media outlet. And the lie would be, as I've already pointed out, using a sockpuppet of her own sister as a source, without mentioning either fact, and implying the sockpuppet was blocked because it was about to Reveal the Truth About The Evil Griot when it was actually blocked for -- wait for it -- being a sockpuppet of her own sister. And you're PROUD of her? --Calton | Talk 16:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

When did I ever say I was proud of her Calton? For the record, I am not pleased with the article myself. Besides a free lunch and a small compliment about me in it all I got out of this was being connected with firearms by my real name in a San Francisco newspaper for all to see, including prospective friends, dates, and employers. Exactly what I DIDN'T want to happen. And did you notice in her blurb about me she says I spoke of my devotion to Wikipedia? Well I did. An hour and a half's worth and she didn't print a word of it. And all my co-workers who I had told about my big Wikipedia/SFweekly interview had a ball calling me a Wikipidiot the rest of the week. BillyTFried (talk) 02:01, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow this is one of the most creepy cases of ciber and real stalking that I have seen, what is keeping us from indef blocking the user trying to "out" another user's annonimity? -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  22:03, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I doubt the account will be used ever again. BillyTFried (talk) 22:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * She did post this awkward message today so how can't we guarantee that she won't continue stalking? -   Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  22:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the question in my mind is whether we should block BillyTFried for harassment. He's been edit warring at User talk:Griot-- are recent diffs; he continues to post to this thread when it would be much better for him to lay off; his user talk page is essentially an attack page against Griot; and there's this super-creepy thread on User talk:Marynega (that's the journalist who wrote the hit piece in SF Weekly) that I've having a difficult time interpreting as anything other than a "joking" threat of violence. I don't see why we should allow this behavior. --Akhilleus (talk) 00:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

That's a novel idea. Blame the victim. I've never heard of that before. Are you part of the Griot/Calton alliance as well?. Anyone that wants the whole story can just go to Griot's talk page history for the truth: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Griot&action=history Also, I like how you refer my REVERTS back to the original conversation as it happened months ago as "Recent Diffs" and try to make them seem as if they were new and were justification for blocking me. Jeez! My "attack" of a user page is simply the original unedited conversation as it original occurred months ago that I am asking be restore. The closest thing to harassment I've done is probably my response to his "Letter to the editor" this morning, defending his actions and blaming the article's author for his being banned: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Griot&diff=190675197&oldid=190673998 BillyTFried (talk) 01:16, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * A number of people have been victimized in one way or another in this series of events. Please stand in line over there to join the crowd... Although at least my appearance in the article was fairly positive.
 * I think a lot of people think that your response to that, and your interactions with Griot, have gone beyond the bounds of civil discourse and Wikipedia policy into counter-harrassment. And our policy is that two wrongs equals two warned users, or two blocks.  If you break policy or abuse people here in response to legitimate or perceived baiting or abuse by them, you're still breaking policy and will still be held accountable.
 * Please tone it down some. Thank you.  Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 09:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

And as for Calton's behavior you have what to say? BillyTFried (talk) 21:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Given the constant, unending escalation of tit-for-tat in this AN/I report alone, much less all the links around it, can we just block Calton AND BillyTFried for a while? Griot is already blocked, or I'd list him too. This is ridiculous. ThuranX (talk) 22:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, ridiculous is the right term, all right -- though not in the way you think it is, or for that matter, about what. —Preceding unsigned comment added by User: (talk • contribs)

Block me for what offense? Reporting in this ANI Griot deliberately misrepresenting me on his talk page and then weathering the onslaught of attacks and false accusations from those defending the confirmed and banned sock puppeteer while the admins stand by and do NOTHING about Griot's or Calton's abuses? BillyTFried (talk) 22:16, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Presumably your near constant violations of WP:NPA in this venue. Orderinchaos 16:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I believe it is YOU who has violated WP:PA by calling me absurd in your comments above. I however have made no such personal attacks or false accusations as you have by accusing me of being affiliated with banned user Telegon whom I have never had ANY involvement in any talk page or article on Wikipedia EVER. BillyTFried (talk) 00:16, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If you read what I actually said and what it was in context to, you'll find it was quite different. I said your actions were making you look absurd - I did not call you absurd. I did not say you were affiliated with a user, I merely highlighted the irony of you attacking someone for sockpuppetry using comments by a proven sockpuppeteer to back up your argument. I think you need to become a lot less aggressive and a lot more introspective. Orderinchaos 12:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Article in San Francisco Weekly (II)
But seriously, folks, it was just a fine article. Very interesting and informative. Nicely edited, too. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * And a very creative way to post libelous material in name of a banned user... -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  07:29, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * So, George, you've forgotten that if you want to pull off the disinterested innocent bystander act, it helps if you say something even remotely believable, otherwise you blow the gaff. So, are you another of Jeannie Marie's relatives here to do her dirty work for her now that her dozen or so sockpuppets have been blocked? --Calton | Talk 13:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think I am a relative, but anything is possible because we both live in California. Does she have red hair and blue eyes? I do. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 21:22, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Accusing a fellow editor of trying to pull off an act of some sort doesn't seem very civil to me. Do you have any evidence to back up that claim or is it just another in your ever growing pile of false accusations dished out to anyone who does not agree with you? BillyTFried (talk) 19:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * We have a person whose sister is a checkuser-confirmed sock, and her mates accusing Griot of sockpuppetry. It's beginning to look to me like a well-planned, long-running case of harassment on and off wiki, and when someone fights back inappropriately, an attempt to hang them for it. To GeorgeLouis's defence I would note he has been a continuous and fairly hard working editor for almost as long as I have been, although I am genuinely curious as to his role/involvement in the situation. Orderinchaos 16:46, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Minor point: Griot is guilty of [sockpuppetry. Pardon this no doubt novel insertion of a fact into this discussion. On a side note, is anybody on this board in an admin position ever going to say something to [[User:Calton|Calton]] about the endless number of accusations, including false ones, and mean spirited diatribes he levels against other editors? Does he have incriminating tapes of you all, like J Edgar Hoover? Boodlesthecat (talk) 17:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Its not a matter of ACCUSING Griot of sock puppetry because he has been CONFIRMED to have been doing it fervently for a long time. That seems to be a meaningless footnote to you. Do you feel he was innocent and was unjustly banned? Obviously he does! And nobody involved in this discussion is my "mate". Again another false accusation from you. I have not had any correspondence with anyone here prior to this event, unlike you and Griot, Calton. BillyTFried (talk) 19:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

User continuing to add slanderous material about a company
See Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive365, where I recently reported this. User:Justjihad continues to add slanderous information on the above company, and I believe he should be blocked for a day, if not more. This appears to be a SPA to add his own POV in an off-wiki dispute. The Evil Spartan (talk) 05:40, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Justjihad has been blocked for 1 day for repeatedly adding poorly referenced personal commentary to the article. --Jayron32. talk . contribs  05:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

User:Douglasfgrego
User:Douglasfgrego has attacked other users, including me, just because one of his pages is at AfD (see here and here). He has been warned on his talk page about his actions. Because this user is known for not assuming good faith, and because he has a history of attacking other users (he was nearly blocked about a year ago), I feel that he is definitely not here to improve the project, and may warrant an indef block. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 22:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Another insult was just placed here. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 22:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Final warned, will give this one last chance for reform. Malinaccier (talk) 22:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * What we have here is an editor who seems to be trying to create an article in good faith but whose efforts are being attacked within minutes. It is no surprise that he is annoyed and aggrieved.  Please see WP:BITE.  Colonel Warden (talk) 22:46, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This isn't a new user. I interacted with him over a year ago, and his actions today are consistent with his actions back then. <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="Navy">AniMate 22:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * He has been extremely disruptive and has been continuously attacking other editors. I indefinitely blocked the user for personal attacks, threats, and disruption.  He went way too far.  Malinaccier (talk) 22:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I went through the user's contributions, and also noticed a dramatic change in attitude. Hijacked account? Malinaccier (talk) 22:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I disagree with your action. A quick search on the matter in question indicates that it is quite notable, being reporetd by the BBC, for example.  Since the attempts to block creation of this article were not well founded, Mr Grego's complaints seem justified by undue provocation.  He was not especially uncivil, mainly just asking to be left alone so the article could be created. Colonel Warden (talk) 22:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Quote from talk page:


 * "to all you anal-retentive assholes out there, who think you are the end-all, be-all of Wikipedia, and that your are privy to some higher understanding of Wikipedia rules, you are not the boss of Wikipedia. You do not have some special authority here. All you have is a computer and an internet connection and too much time on your hands.
 * This here is my discussion page. See that up there, it says User Talk: Douglasfgrego. That's me. And I'll say whatever the fuck I want to here on my page. If you don't like it, don't come in here."


 * That seemed especially uncivil to me. Malinaccier (talk) 23:00, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree 100% with the rationale to delete this article, though I don't think that each and every news story of the week needs its own entry. However, this user has a history of extreme incivility. On the other article he created (Murder of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom), any attempts to change the article from the white nationalists talking points to something resembling NPOV were met with accusations of bias and various other recriminations. This isn't a loss to the project in the slightest. <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="Navy">AniMate 23:19, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, I just recieved an email from him beginning with "Dude, you are such a dick. Unblock my account..." Yet another personal attack.  Malinaccier (talk) 23:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * My impression is that you _are_ biased against him and that this is unduly influencing the action taken which still seems excessive. The article should have been allowed to be created and just tagged for cleanup as needed.  Then all of this could have been avoided.  Colonel Warden (talk) 23:31, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. Well, I'd suggest you read up on assuming good faith and no personal attacks. Nothing on his talk page is remotely acceptable, regardless of what happens with the article. Just because someone nominates an article for deletion, doesn't mean that someone is given free reign to make the kind of remarks he made on his page. <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="Navy">AniMate 23:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to point out that I left exactly two messages on this editors page in May of last yearthat can be seen here. I was not only the height of civility, I gave him advice on how to work through the steps of dispute resolution so he could avoid incivility in the future. <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="Navy">AniMate 23:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've not seen anything that I don't consider fair comment yet. For example, on Ten Pound Hammer's talk page we have:


 * Dude. Go away and leave the Brian Sterner entry alone. You seem to be determined to destroy this entry as quickly as possible. Go outside. Go for a walk. Go read a book. Go do something else, and leave the entry alone. Let other people visit and expand the entry. God, you wannabe administrators are so goddamn annoying.--Douglasfgrego (talk) 21:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The only point that isn't obvious is the wannabe admin bit. But Ten Pound Hammer has a userbox on his page to exactly this effect and so that's accurate.  The rest is just the guy's way of saying to leave the article alone for a while so it can be edited.   And that Ten Pound Hammer is being annoying, which again seems accurate. Colonel Warden (talk) 23:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There's this gem:
 * What's the matter Nancy, did I hurt your widdle (sniff, sniff), feewings? Awww, poor bay-bee!
 * And this:
 * Please. Fuck off. Statements made on my own discussion page are not disruptive nor are they personal attacks. This is Douglasfgrego's discussion page, not Tenpoundhammer's lecture room. I'll say whatever I want here. You can kiss my ass. Look! I made that exclamation point too!
 * If you want to argue about the merits of the article, be my guest, but defending what is clearly inappropriate behavior... I just don't see the point. While civility is subjective, clearly this user is uncivil in the extreme. He was last year and he is today. After being blocked he left this little nugget of wisdom:
 * I'll tell ya something folks, y'all are a bunch of thin-skinned, hyper-sensitive Nancies on here.
 * We don't need editors who behave like that, and I think you know it. <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="Navy">AniMate 00:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No, thin-skinned seems to be the mot juste. If people don't want to hear stuff like this then they shouldn't be so confrontational.  Volenti non fit injuria. Colonel Warden (talk) 00:29, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Let's calm down. I think that this case is over. You absolutely cannot ignore the continued disruptions, personal attacks, and poor behavior on the the case of Douglasfgrego. I'm placing "resolved" at the top of the discussion. Thank you, Malinaccier (talk) 01:53, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Requesting Block on ISP 75.74.163.231
This user has repeatedly vandalized the PlayRadioPlay! article, over 8 times now. The information he continues to add is that a member in the band is an Atheist, which is uncited, and clearly untrue. I've asked him to stop but he still reverts my removal of his addition daily. Also, he has clearly had a problem vandalizing other profiles. --~*LiSaSuArEz*~ 00:51, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * WP:BLP is a very serious thing - even if it's a band we're talking about, not just an individual person. I would file a report to WP:3RR if the edit warring continues. Also ask for WP:RFC on the talk page. <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 01:22, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * For the avoidance of doubt, this is a band with only one member. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 01:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Of relevance, I have nominated the article for deletion. It's been apparently speedy deleted six times.  Seicer  (talk) (contribs) 04:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Since then it's been nominated for WP:AFD - here .Regardless of speedy deletion and AfD noms, continue to monitor any further violation of WP:BLP. Warn the IP about adding controversial material of a living person. Start with level 1 and work up. <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 05:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Requesting Block on Tasc0

 * User:Tasc0 was reported twice, once by User:Chubbles and once by me for the abusing the 3RR on the articles Bloods & Crips and Bangin' on Wax. I had tried to explain to him that the info on that page was not about the album but about the group Blood & Crips.  He contiued to revert. User:B responded by taking away his rollback due to inappropriate use of the rollback, User:Sarcasticidealist gave the rollback back to Tasc0 and despite warnings by Chubbles, B and myself, Tasc0 continues to revert, stating the group doesnt exist, when it clearly does. Same As It Ever Was (talk) 01:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Just my advice on this matter, I would go for WP:RFC first and then follow up with steps 2 and 3 of the dispute resolution process if it fails. If the user continues to violate WP:3RR during this time, file more reports. Unfortunately, content disputes are not vandalism, so no WP:AIV. <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 01:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems that this users wants to convince everybody that I have violated the 3RR, which I haven't because both reports ended in no violation..
 * Refer to 3RR notice board archive to see that I did not break the rule. <b style="color:#002BB8;">Tasc0</b> <sup style="color:#002BB8;">It's a zero! 02:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * 3RR is not a license to revert 3 times every 24 hours. You have 4 reverts in 26.5 hours and have clearly been edit warring on . --B (talk) 04:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The 3RR page clearly states: "An editor must not perform more than three reverts, in whole or in part, on a single page within a 24-hour period. A revert means undoing the actions of another editor, whether involving the same or different material each time."
 * I have reverted the edits of another editor in a different page than Bangin' on Wax.<b style="color:#002BB8;">Tasc0</b> <sup style="color:#002BB8;">It's a zero! 04:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * From WP:3RR: "The motivation for the three-revert rule is to prevent edit warring. In this spirit the rule does not convey an entitlement to revert three times each day, nor does it endorse reverting as an editing technique. Rather, the rule is an "electric fence".[1] Editors may still be blocked even if they have made three or fewer reverts in a 24 hour period, if their behavior is clearly disruptive. Efforts to game the system, for example by persistently making three reverts each day or three reverts on each of a group of pages, cast an editor in a poor light and may result in blocks." I count four edits to Bangin' on Wax 26.5 hours apart. --B (talk) 04:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, if the "motivation" of the rule is to prevent edit warrings and it states some users may get blocked even though they haven't broke the rule, then someone should edit the policy and add the following: "We don't care if you only made three reverts in a 24 hours period, we will block you because when don't respect our own rules and like to be authoritarian". Since this report, I have stopped reverting. In case you didn't notice, I was the one who tried to talk to the user in his talk page.
 * And as far as I'm concerned, a content dispute it's not vandalism. Like another user above said. <b style="color:#002BB8;">Tasc0</b> <sup style="color:#002BB8;">It's a zero! 05:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Need tag team vandals blocked
and are tag-team vandalizing. I've reported them at AIV, but I don't want to spend all evening reverting these guys. <font face="Arial"> Corvus cornix talk  06:33, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Both have been blocked for 31 hours by  SQL <sup style="font-size: 5pt;color:#999">Query me!  06:44, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * thanks. <font face="Arial"> Corvus cornix  talk  06:48, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

These IPs have come back as User:Bobdole215. <font face="Arial"> Corvus cornix talk  07:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo heads-up - help needed
Kosovo is almost certainly going to be declaring independence from Serbia today. This is very likely to lead to a spate of edit wars, POV edits, vandalism and inflammatory commentary on talk pages from editors on both sides of the conflict; we're already starting to see some incidents with new editors and anonymous IPs (see e.g., ). Assistance would be appreciated in watching Kosovo and related articles on the Kosovo public watchlist.

I should add that all Kosovo-related articles are covered by the general sanction in Requests for arbitration/Macedonia, which states that "Any uninvolved administrator may, on their own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if that editor fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, the expected standards of behavior, or the normal editorial process. The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; restrictions on reverts; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project. Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision." -- ChrisO (talk) 10:57, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Rudget already fully protected the page, making Wikipedia looks paranoid and behind the times, so don't worry about the page being vandalized, editors can't even add the nation's flag. I went over there from this AN/I section, and was surprised, and a bit shocked to see that Rudget locked it down. ThuranX (talk) 17:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * My rationale is on the talk page. Flag has been added. Rudget . 17:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Not only locked down but 6 admins have since edited it. This is damaging to wikipedia's reputation. IMHO it is plain wrong to protect this article at this time and each admin that has since edited endangers our reputation as admin privileges are not to be used to edit as if somehow admins have extra editing privileges. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The decision to protect was taken with the utmost care. After the downgrade protection by Moreschi earlier on today, edit wars and "revisions of vandalism" prevailed afterwards. Wouldn't that in itself damage Wikipedia's reputation to deliver information to an audience? - surely endless revisions and continuing unhealthy relationships between editors is not conducive to an atmosphere where consensus and corrent information can be displayed. The protection also has an expiry of 19:00 (UTC0, so just over 1 hour left. In this time, discussions have taken place on the talk page and the edits on the page have slowed dramatically to allow for not only corrections but also the appropriate conduct of each administrator which has been active there. Rudget . 17:45, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * How about blocking for 24 hours all admins who have edited the proteced article then for flagrant disregard of our policies, admins are expetected to act to a higher standard than most but oare currently bringing the page and hence the project into disrepute. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:48, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I fail to understand your exaggerated attempts at a resolution, so I will refrain from making any further comment. Rudget . 17:51, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Your rationale is that you get to control the page, so we don't RISK troubles with editors who don't agree with Rudget. Unprotect the page, and work with all the new editors we COULD be getting instead of alienating people. This decision makes Wikipedia look bad. ThuranX (talk) 17:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I suggest posting at arbcom enforcement, admins are continuing to edit the article in flagrant disregard of policy while not allowing anyone else to. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:43, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

User:The nightmare hunter
Will anyone see what this user User:The nightmare hunter doing? Special:Contributions/The_nightmare_hunter.  Otolemur crassicaudatus  (talk) 11:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This needs admin attention to undo some moves – the one about the college should be done quickly <span style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;">&mdash;αlεx•mullεr 11:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Indefinitely blocked as a vandalism-only account. I'll sort out the moves. Thanks for the notification. -- ChrisO (talk) 11:18, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think I've got most of the moves taken care of. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 11:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You beat me to it. :-) Guess I'm slowing down... -- ChrisO (talk) 11:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I have reason to believe that is an incarnation of an anonymous user who has been repeatedly blocked for revert warring on Sol Badguy, Ryu (Street Fighter) and Guile (Street Fighter) and has been attempting to harass me.  (See, ,  (Sol Badguy), , ,  (Ryu), ,  (Guile), ,   (his vandalism to my talk page).  He has a long history as an anonymous user and I don't think he should get a pass now that he has an account. JuJube (talk) 22:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * And he's revert warring again. JuJube (talk) 15:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Warbringer47 has dropped the issue of alternate storylines and is now insisting on trying to get height/weight added to these articles. He knows very well that this was a contentious issue a few years ago that led to the items being removed.  Considering he's told me that if I'm sick, I should stay at home and not edit, I believe this account was made only to harass me. JuJube (talk) 00:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * User has been blocked, so this should be marked as resolved. JuJube (talk) 03:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

User:Ombudsman
Ombudsman following a RfA is under indefinite Probation. "He may be banned by any administrator for good cause from any article concerning a medical subject which he disrupts by tendentious editing". He has recently repeatedly deleted commentry on his involvement on vaccine related topics at Notice board for vaccine-related topics (1, 2 and 3 in the last 2 days). Edit summary claim of moving to to talk page are not borne out by this where material and Ombudsman name not included.

I find this disruptive editing and accordingly have notified Ombudsman of a ban on further editing. Could other admins please review my action under the RfA probation. David Ruben Talk 20:45, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Has anyone looked to see if this is connected with ? Guy (Help!) 20:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * They are almost certainly not the same person, though they share an agenda. I'm not neutral here, having run into Ombudsman before. Still, the "longstanding history of tendentious editing of medical articles" identified by ArbCom has hardly abated. He was indefinitely blocked by Jimbo in October '07 and unblocked out of a desire to show forgiveness . Based on his lack of engagement and deletions of appropriate commentary from the noticeboard, I think a ban from that particular page under the terms of his ongoing ArbCom probation is reasonable. MastCell Talk 20:57, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Ombudsman may not be the ideal editor but I really can't see him being whaleto.Geni 21:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

V-Dash again?
I've noticed that IP 74.202.131.118 is going to each one of V-Dash's sockpuppet accounts and changing the message from "This account is a sockpuppet of V-Dash" to "This account is a sockpuppet of Jéské Couriano". I've begun to revert all of these, but the diffs include, , , , and , although there are several more instances. It should also be noted that the IP opened their talk page with the message "Jeske is an ass" diff. Jéské Couriano has requested that all potential V-Dash sockpuppets be reported to ANI if the block log for the account is empty (which it is at the time of this message). MelicansMatkin (talk) 05:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Quite possibly, but since the IP stopped over an hour ago, I don't know that a block would be either necessary nor effective at this point. --Jayron32. talk . contribs 05:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That, and it's likely V-Dash has moved on to a different IP. -Jéské ( Blah v^_^v ) 19:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks like another Creepy Crawler sockpuppet
is adding the Category:Soap opera actors to a bunch of articles, much in the vein of  and his numerous socks. Others, including the newly admined Doczilla, have expressed the belief that this is yet another sockpuppet of CC. Pairadox (talk) 06:38, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * He's been adding that to a bunch of articles...? What's wrong with that? Is he adding them to articles about people who aren't soap opera actors?-- Phoenix -  wiki  16:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It appears he's mainly adding it to a lot of people who are already in Category:American soap opera actors or another by country category. They should not be duplicated in Category:Soap opera actors. He has not edited since Doczilla asked him at 09:53 to stop populating Category:Soap opera actors. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:33, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

User:Rayhade edits on Criticism of Mormonism - no response to repeated olive branches, and continued edit warring
User:Rayhade has been quite belligerent editing Criticism of Mormonism, and I admit I got sucked into an edit war with him/her on more than one occasion. I have tried to talk it out on their talk page, but I can't get any response. This has been going on for a few weeks now I think. I would like someone to look into the situation and let me know if I am being unreasonable, and if not, perhaps we can block Rayhade until they are ready to talk to the community, rather than continue revert warring. I think I have put my best foot forward in trying to come to an agreement, but I get no response, only reverts. Please see my four attempts to discuss on Rayhade's talk page, as well as an attempt to discuss the issue with the community at large. --Descartes1979 (talk) 08:51, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * My recommendation, since your requests have gone unanswered and the edit warring has continued, take a breather for yourself and observe what's happening. If the user continues to edit war, warn them about WP:3RR. If behavior continues unabated, then report them for the violation. That would certainly get community eyes on the situation. <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 20:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

TTN
is continuing to mass tag articles for merger (examples:, , , ) and is not complying with Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters 2/Proposed decision: For the duration of this case, no editor shall redirect or delete any currently existing article regarding a television series episode or character; nor un-redirect or un-delete any currently redirected or deleted article on such a topic, nor apply or remove a tag related to notability to such an article. Administrators are authorized to revert such changes on sight, and to block any editors that persist in making them after being warned of this injunction.

An arbitrator while posting the above injunction stated:

[...] Favoring a broad interpretation by administrators, geared to the spirit of this, which is to quell the disputed actions whilst the case is in progress.

I am not posting this to "arbitration enforcement" as that noticeboard isn't functioning. -- Cat chi? 16:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmmm. I would say that the injunction is unclear here - adding merger tags is obviously not "apply(ing) .. a tag related to notability" - this obviously means  or similar. Yes, one could argue that tagging for merger is effectively the same as tagging for notability, but I can think of many examples where it is not. I think you'd probably need to raise this at the RfAR page. I have, however, left a note on TTN's talkpage suggesting that he holds off on doing this too, even for obvious examples. <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 16:57, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The injunction is indeed very unclear - it should apply to notability, but ends up applying to speculation, we don't know if it applies to only TV characters, we don't know if applies to groups or just singular entities, etc etc. Will (talk) 17:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Last time I checked, everybody was very specific on being literal with the wording of the injunction, meaning that video game characters are not subject to it. I won't be edit warring at any point during the injunction, so I'll hardly be violating the spirit of it either. TTN (talk) 17:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm again - does "TV episodes and characters" mean "TV episode articles and TV character articles", or does it mean "TV episode articles, and character articles in general"? Don't ask me. Just shows how daft and confusing this injunction is - see also this. <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 17:09, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * While I and many other people always thought it was the latter, most people seemed to have started reading it literally. If the members of arbcom actually want to clarify it, I'll obviously stop, but I'm going with the literal interpretation until then. TTN (talk) 17:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The injunction is not clear to prevent gaming around it. Common sense suggests if arbitration committee asks you to stop a certain kind of "disputed edits" on a specific topic, you do NOT continue it on a different topic. What is the difference in TTN's previous edits and these? TTN is making the same "disputed actions" on a similar topic. Alas it isn't TV and instead Video Games (which may very well be also TV characters as most video characters are these days). -- Cat chi? 19:14, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * In which case the injunction should've been worded so it was completely clear to avoid end-running round it, ironically enough a favourite tactic of those wishing to keep such articles. Otherwise, it shouldn't have been made at all. <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 19:19, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Except the link you site is about your complaint on an AfD about a TV episode which has nothing to do with what this section is about (and falls directly under the ArbCom injunction). JuJube (talk) 19:26, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Arbcom injunction does not need to be christal clear. Gaming the system in a nutshell states that "playing games with policies and guidelines in order to avoid the spirit of communal consensus or thwart the intent and spirit of policy, is strictly forbidden." Arbcom temporary injunctions supersedes any policy, guideline, essay, or even community consensus so gaming around them is the last thing people should try to do. -- Cat chi? 19:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it does, but you voted "Keep per ArbCom". What does this mean? What ArbCom resolution? <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 19:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I voted what? I don't remember at all and it is completely irrelevant to this case. Stop nominating pages for deletion (afd, cfd, tfd or any other cfd), stop blanking/redirectifying pages, stop tagging them, stop removing existing tags, stop restoring redirectified content. To put it in a single word: "STOP". You should not need an injunction to stop when a matter is brought to the arbitration committee... TTN has been told to STOP many times, and was shown more tolerance than anybody else. To date he has pushed that tolerance to its absolute limit gaming around it as much as he can. So there you have it. TTN is the untouchable. -- Cat chi? 20:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm the one that voted "Keep per ArbCom" and I already explained why. A number of AfD's that fell under the ArbCom injunction cropped up, and I simply got tired of typing the whole reason so I just put that. JuJube (talk) 03:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I really suggest to TTN that repeated attempts to evade the clear intentions here are not going to help him.  It might even add some ammunition to those who want to ban him altogether, that he seems to try to evade any limit. DGG (talk) 06:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

User:Hrafn
An editing dispute between myself and User:Hrafn has resulted in some behavior that I think is objectionable. The initial disagreement concerned the placement of a Template:refimprove tag on the article Old Earth creationism - the tag was at the top of the page, and I moved it to the bottom, near the references, as suggested by the template page. After some back and forth, there was a call for a discussion about where the tag should be placed. Both Hrafn and I posted comments at about the same time on the talk page. The discussion was ongoing, when Hrafn decided it was "off topic" and put the discussion under a "hat" with an "archived, do not modify" tag on it. Obviously, doing this cuts off all possibility of continued discussion on the topic and prevents any local consensus from forming about where the tag would best be placed. I undid the action and asked Hrafn not to do it again, but that has happened. Can someone please look into this? I'm not sure what action is appropriate here - I am not seeking anyone to be blocked, I simply would like the discussion to be able to continue. As I was preparing this complaint, Hrafn has done something else, "userfied" the discussion? I don't quite know what that means, but I've undone it. [Apparently, that meant moving the entire discussion to my talk page.] I'd really like this to stop, if it can, so discussion can continue on the pertinent topic. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  17:06, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I've put a notice on Hrafn's talk page concerning this complaint. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  17:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

<font face="Antiqua, serif">HrafnTalkStalk 17:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) The "suggestion" in the template page also notes that there is no consensus on placement (and there is no consistency among the guidelines for similar templates).
 * 2) I initially complained about his unilateral behaviour on User talk:Ed Fitzgerald
 * 3) Ed Fitzgerald requested that we take the discussion to ‎Talk:Old Earth creationism, so I did so.
 * 4) It quickly became apparent that this was an issue that could not be decided in isolation, and that it had little to do specifically with Old Earth creationism, so I suggested, repeatedly, that Ed take it to Wikipedia talk:Template messages or Wikipedia talk:Template messages/Sources of articles which are the more appropriate fora for such discussions. When he refused, I first archived ( { {hat}}/ ) the thread and then (when he repeatedly reverted the former) userfied it to his talkpage.


 * It's not appropriate that we continue the dispute here -- and my complaint has nothing whatsoever to do with the cause of the dispute, it's about your actions in attempting to shut down the discussion. I only wish to say that the initial disagreement was about where the clean-up tag should be placed on that particular page, and since that disagreement continues, it's only right that the discussion continue.  It doesn't seem to me that you get to decide which of my reasons are appropriate to be part of the discussion (as opposed to your deciding which one of them is convincing or not, which is certainly your privilege). Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  17:35, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This isn't really such a big deal to have a dispute about, and I'd suggest to both of you to relax and have a cup of tea. Or whatever. Hrafn's been doing an immense job in keeping the whole range of articles in reasonable order, Ed Fitzgerald's made some edits which seem to me to be improvements, and either way this article does need improvement, not least to the inline references. I don't much mind where the template goes, if an article desperately needs references it's reasonable to have it at the top to encourage readers to become editors, if it's a question of improvement needed to a reasonably referenced article my own preference is to put it in the references section. Either way the article's categorised as needing that attention, which hasn't had quick results. A good outcome will be cooperation on making some improvements. .. dave souza, talk 19:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)