Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive404

User:Asd124
I believe may be a sockpuppet, though I don't know how it would be determined what user they are a sockpuppet of, exactly, so I can't add this to suspected sock puppets, and the situation isn't serious enough for checkuser. I believe this user is a sockpuppet because of this diff, where their first contribution, they add a question to a user's RfA, specifically relating to sockpuppetry and administrator abuse, specifically a line where they state "This is not a joke question because the issue of sock versus admin abuse is common in Wikipedia." &mdash; scetoaux (T|C)  19:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks to me like an SPA asking a loaded question. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Would a SPA ask such questions if it weren't a sockpuppet? Or could the account have been made so that the user could contribute to RfA?  Are anonymous users able to contribute to RfA? &mdash;  scetoaux (T|C)  19:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Without looking at any diffs, the answer is Yes. Anonymous users (aren't we all, anyway?) are allowed to contribute to RfAs. In the discussion section, or asking a question. The only thing IP's are not allowed to do is cast a !vote in support/neutral/opposition.  Keeper   |  76   |   Disclaimer  21:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Clearly a sock. I said SPA because there is clearly some history behind the question along with a singleminded reason for creating the account. Gwen Gale (talk) 21:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the user hasn't made any other edits, so there's doesn't appear to be any need for a block, even if the user is a sockpuppet. &mdash; scetoaux (T|C)  20:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Unclear on Reason for Action
Hi, I seem to have been banned for making this AN/I report. I'm not exactly certain why bringing this post to an Administrators attention is a Ban Offense. I was completely unaware of this ban as my IP changed and I had confirmed edits at my new IP at 14:07, 16 April. This was hours after ThuranX's post in the section at 01:57, 16 April and many hours before I was blocked at 21:35, 16 April.

My IP automatically changing 7 1/2 hours before being blocked has now been used as the basis by Arcayne for a full press to be banned for "Block Evasion". After his current attack  against me on AN/I failed he went back to the original Admin on his talk page and lobbied there. I am now banned.

I have abided by the Wiki rules and since being informed of the ban and discovering where the block that Arcayne was referring to came from I have only posted to AN/I and directly to the Administrators involved. I have honored and respected the rules and customs of this institution and tried to speak with civility and reason - I am disheartened by the lack of protection and dismayed by my sentence for having used the correct channels to civilly address my concerns.

Arcaynes ruthless and deceptive obsession, and his ability to somehow always find someone, somewhere to try another avenue of approach with is troubling.

I thank you for your time. 75.58.32.90 (talk) 04:13, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I would suggest you use  on your Talk page to request for an appeal. And for your information, your block is lasting for 7 days.  Gary King ( talk )  10:19, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This IP has never been blocked per block log . Bearian (talk) 19:13, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * According to the person's post, the user has stated that their IP address is dynamic. Their banned IP can be found here. Gary King ( talk )  19:40, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

User_talk:Viriditas
Can someone check this out. The articles I tagged for notability which unbeknown to me where related to the user(or the user choose to take an interest in) are Klaatu barada nikto, Religious Reform in Antebellum America, My Wife and Kids, Cadillac V8 engine and Volkswagen advertising history. It seems to have blown over now, but I thought it useful to raise notification of the situation. SunCreator (talk) 15:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, goody, a content dispute about a content dispute... From a quick review the tags were incorrect, and in one case at least replaced the appropriate tag. However, this is not a sysop matter and you should take it up with Viriditas (who appears to be correct, and from whom you may be advised why). LessHeard vanU (talk) 16:05, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I suggest that you read up on WP:NOTE, as it seems you have a misapprehension of the guideline. It boggled my mind that you would tag any of those with notability templates, especially an article about an engine. Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 17:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * From WP:NOTE. "Notability requires objective evidence." WP:NOBJ. "If an article fails to cite sufficient sources to demonstrate the notability of its subject, look for sources yourself, or: ... Put the  tag on the article to alert other editors. To place a dated tag, put a notability tag." SunCreator (talk) 17:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Very true, but please be aware of WP:COMMON. Articles on a specific V8 engine or a four year running television show do not need to be tagged as though they exhibit questionable notability. As the excerpt you quoted says, it would have been better to look for sources anyway. Would you place a notability tag on a stub of a town in Italy if it didn't have any citations?? Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 18:54, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In light of a number of places that have gone to Afd for WP:HOAX like Albania, Colorado Afd, today and Wimbledon, New Zealand, yesterday and the ease of which places names can be located on google maps, verifiability is the issue so tagging would seem quite sensible, else it could be tomorrows Afd. SunCreator (talk) 19:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I've bolded an important part of the bit you quoted - "If an article fails to cite sufficient sources to demonstrate the notability of its subject, look for sources yourself,".  Dan Beale-Cocks  19:40, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly my point. Remember, sometimes it's better to follow the spirit of a guideline instead of the the letter. I understand that your tagging was in good faith. However, be wary of Wikilawyering. <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 21:35, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * sometimes it's better to follow the spirit of a guideline instead of the the letter. Maybe it's just me, but that's the first time I've seen that bit of common sense stated so explicity. Thanks. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  22:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Removal of attack edit summaries
has been indef blocked for a stream of edits with attacking edit summaries, but the summaries are all still there in his contribution record. There must be some way that can be obliterated? JohnCD (talk) 16:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You'd have to ask for oversight. Rudget  16:05, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This is a recurring case treated above at Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents.--Tikiwont (talk) 16:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oversight requested. JohnCD (talk) 17:18, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * ...and offensive edit summaries have been removed. JohnCD (talk) 18:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Bot (STBotI) malfunction?
I think that may be malfunctioning. I noticed that in the past few minutes the bot, run by, is tagging free images from Commons with di-no fair use rationale. Examples:, , Image:1JPY.JPG, Image:1 2 3 Willow Road Hampstead London 20050924.JPG. Images that have valid rationales are also being tagged with di-no fair use rationale. I left a message on the bot's talk page, but ST47 appears to be out. Could an admin take a look and possibly pause the bot's operations until ST47 returns? Bláthnaid 17:20, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Nevermind, ST47 is back. He replied on his talk page just after I posted this. Bláthnaid  17:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Thenewracistmagician
Enough said? AndyJones (talk) 20:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Blocked. In the future, WP:UAA and WP:AIV are better places for this. Mr.  Z- man  20:06, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Request deletion of a user subpage
I request that User:Nwwaew/BJAODN be deleted. This was resurrected temporarily to help out with another Wiki, but we no longer need the page. I'd tag it for speedy deletion, but it's fully protected to prevent editing. Thanks! <font face="Trebuchet MS">Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 21:19, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Zenasprime
Please investigate editor and administrator "bullying" tactics. Rather then discussion, these editors/administrators resort to non consensus revisions, edits and warnings to good faith edits in order to quash any dissension. See Above mentioned User talk for examples. Thanks. Zenasprime (talk) 21:38, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Let me give some detail into the incident. User:Snottythetroll gave warnings to User:Orangemike‎, for something which Mike never did. The user was also a potential violator of 3RR, for which he was given a notice by me but he replied back by warning me not to bite new editors. Then after the user got blocked for disruptive editing, he claimed that
 * "...this(block) was a personal request by the relevant parties to an administrator favorable to them who then quashed a "troublesome" user for them. Wikipedia, at least from this editor's point of view, seems to be governed, not by mutually agreed upon policy, but by gangs of internet thugs..."
 * There User:Zenasprime joined him and left this comment at his talk page,
 * "Be constructive instead of destructive. Just because the users in question have no ethical values in relation to be a constructive member of wiki doesn't mean you should be so also."
 * and also reverted edits here back to edits of above user, for which he was given a warning by me. After which he accused me and reported the matter here. -- S M S  Talk 22:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The Admin to which the user is referring is User:Swatjester and the user to which he is referring is myself. S M S   Talk 22:07, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, the warnings for my comments were in regards to Civil which I dispute as being unwarranted. Also, my edits were done in Goodfaith, which in my belief should not warrant accusation of vandalism. Such tactics are not in good faith and seek only to punish dissenting points of view, a wholly destructive practice.  Zenasprime (talk) 22:25, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Annotated bibliographies
There's been a number of "Annotated bibliographies" created in the last two days:


 * 1) U.S. Defense Budget Trends over the past 50 Years: An Annotated Bibliography
 * 2) High school dropouts: an annotated bibliography
 * 3) Divorce and Children: An Annotated Bibliography
 * 4) Taxation of Carried Interest: An Annotated Bibliography
 * 5) Environmental Impact on Human Health: An Annotated Bibliography

They have all been created by different authors but follow a similar pattern. These seem an unusual article format and my interest was piqued when I noticed there were at least these five. They are problematic because they fall foul of WP:OR and/or WP:SYN, and each one has been at least PRODded by various other editors. There's no evidence of anything untoward going on here; it could be a coincidence, or if there is a link it could be a school project. But I thought I might flag it up for people to keep an eye on. Ros0709 (talk) 19:47, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Each of the five is currently on AFD. Lawrence Cohen  §  t / e  19:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Ros0709 (talk) 20:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree these are problematic. I once considered making such a list for mathematical logic texts, but decided against it because the criteria for inclusion are so broad as to violate WP:NOT#DIRECTORY. Any annotation is likely to be original research, unless we have published reviews of the articles to refer to. But I think the WP:NOT issue is more central. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 19:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

There is another created in the same time-frame and following the same pattern:


 * 1) The effectiveness of neurofeedback as a treatment for Attention Deficit / Hyperactivity Disorder : An annotated bibliography

I have also taken this one to AFD. Ros0709 (talk) 20:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Those really look like something created for a school project devised by a person who doesn't really understand what Wikipedia is. Just delete and leave a note to the authors that if they need the content they can request to get it userfied. - Bobet 02:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

All six were created within a few days, and for all six, this was the first and only creation. One placed a link in an existing article, and none responded on their talk pages. I agree that this looks like a school project. I also don't see any of the usual POV pushing or promotional overtones here, rather it was probably devised by, as Bobet suggested, someone not familiar with WP. I think that once the AfDs close and the articles are deleted (almost for sure), we should leave something more than the usual note on their talk pages, per WP:BITE. Even better, userfy with a note. — Becksguy (talk) 04:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Another two are appearing in search results now:


 * 1) Middle Eastern Governments: An Annotated Bibliography
 * 2) The Convergence of IAS with GAAP: An Annotated Bibliography

Already PRODded; I'll also take them to AfD. Ros0709 (talk) 09:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Almost all of these have been created by separate WP:SPAs. What effort to engage with these authors has taken place? Have any responded? --Dhartung | Talk 10:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Also:


 * 1) Annotated Bibliography: The Future of International Accounting Standards

User:RHaworth has explicitly asked the authors of three of the articles if this is a school project here and a question about whether two of the articles were linked was asked [here]. No responses were given. Ros0709 (talk) 10:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If you read the text they aren't even trying to be an article, some of them are just notes the person has written for themselves and includes things like "this will be excellent material for my essay." I have written to one or two of them asking politely if they are the same person, I stopped short of saying that their content is inappropriate for wiki, until I got the verdict of the AfDs for the two of these articles I've come across. (the divorce, and ADHD ones.)<b style="color:#FF1493">Merkin's</b>  <b style="color:#FF1493">mum</b> 03:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * These aren't the only creation for at least one of them, if you look at User_talk:InterserveVB it mentions another article of his that was deleted. It just doesn't show up in his contribs because the article's gone. <b style="color:#FF1493">Merkin's</b>  <b style="color:#FF1493">mum</b> 03:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Somebody mentioned here that these look like school projects. In two of these, Environmental Impact on Human Health: An Annotated Bibliography and Divorce and Children: An Annotated Bibliography, the author put their name and email at the end. Both are University of Florida addresses. I'm going to send them both an email and ask if they're a class assignment. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 03:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I got a reply back, it is indeed a school assignment. The author stated that they would fail if it was deleted before May 2; I replied back that there was a problem, specifically that all of them were liable to be deleted within a few days. I also told them to have their professor contact me with any other questions; if they do, I'll point them to WP:NOT. Can we userfy them for these users, or is that a WP:NOT concern? I'm leaning toward the latter on this one. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 12:23, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see that these are intended to form articles (some of them) otherwise they would be written as an essay/articles, not called an "annotated bibliography." These are just collections of their own notes, primarily  for themselves.  Unless they are intended to one day be an article, they shouldn't be userfied.  Some extra leeway/encouragement should be given to User:InterserveVB because he has other contributions mentioned on his talkpage, though they've been deleted.  Perhaps an admin can view his deleted article Joseph R. Grutta to see what it was like. <b style="color:#FF1493">Merkin's</b>  <b style="color:#FF1493">mum</b> 17:40, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Let me add that academics are trying to find ways to use Wikipedia in their classrooms; this is certainly an example of how not to do it. Considering how academics organize class assignments, I wouldn't be surprised if the bibliographies were followed up by articles on those topics, which would be a good thing for Wikipedia's content and for its credibility among academics.
 * If Jeremy or anyone else who has established e-mail connections could get the address of their professor, it might help to point him to this discussion.
 * If the prof. planned this project to end by writing articles, he should have had his students start by writing stubs consisting of only a bibliography on which to build their articles. Maybe an appropriate response would be to rename the present annotated bibliography articles as topical stubs.  --SteveMcCluskey (talk) 17:58, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd imagine the professor didn't know about wikipedia guidelines, and was thinking it was a place to post, well, whatever you write. In any event, it's going to be pretty much all or none with the deletions, and I doubt he'd give everybody in the class an "F", so I'm not too worried for the students. Hopefully the professor will get in contact with me, or come here, so they can get an idea of what the guidelines are. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 00:42, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

University of Luton (now Bedfordshire)
The page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Bedfordshire has been editted many times by people at the University of bedfordshire. My attempts to balance the discussion seems to upset a number of other editors who might also have connections with the University.

I do not know what tools you have available to check that they are not using Wikipedia for advertising but http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/f.php?pagetitle=University+of+Bedfordshire might help Alfred Vella (talk) 22:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I could be wrong (and if so apologies in advance), this all rings a bell with me. I'm sure that user (talk) (maybe not under that name) was warned off that article last year because he his edits were WP:UNDUE and did not represent WP:NPOV. I'm sure has all been discussed before here. This ring any bells with anyone else? --87.113.17.166 (talk) 22:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * His userpage needs urgent attention (WP:SOAP, WP:NOT a battleground etc) I would strongly recommend that potential staff and students avoid Luton (and therefore Bedfordshire) university like the plague until it is honest about its past., If you have any tales to tell about Luton (preferably with evidence), I would like to hear from you. I have been battling since 1997 to have the wrongs done acknowledged but the UK is not a very open country with lots of things hidden from its people. (Plus contact details). Yes this is the editor I was thinking of. Wikipedia is not a free webhost for people to collect evidence for off-site grudges or campaigns. --87.113.17.166 (talk) 22:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The deeper I look into this, the less I like it --87.113.17.166 (talk) 22:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I now remember why the name rang a bell in connection to wikipedia. --87.113.17.166 (talk) 22:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This looks like an ongoing edit war between Alfred Vella and university staff. Gwen Gale (talk) 22:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe but that user page is a violation of policy, we don't allow people to use user space to run campaigns. --87.113.17.166 (talk) 22:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I had already removed the soapy content from his user page. Gwen Gale (talk) 22:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * 87.113.17.166 seems to have joined just to get into this argument. Is this allowed? Alfred Vella (talk) 22:49, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * As one of the regular editors on Bedfordshire Uni, I just want to make it clear i have no connection with the univeristy, and in my view any editing by university staff is not that significant. However it would be usful if someone with no connection to the article could oversee it to try to avoid some of the 'edit-wars' and personal campaiging which has dogged it from time to time. The articlewas protected for a peroid of time a year back which certainly helped.GazMan7 (talk) 07:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Suicide
Re-listed from above, see Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents. I think we should follow-up on this, but I am unsure of the proper channels. KnightLago (talk) 23:58, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Current practice is to indef the account and phone the authorities. Sceptre (talk) 00:00, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the authorities are in Australia it appears, but could be anywhere. A CU needs to be run and is pending. Who should be contacted at the WMF? KnightLago (talk) 00:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was involved with a shooting threat that was very convincing the other day and sided with phoning the authorities. However, this one is a bit of a tougher call.  The user made an edit right after creating that page which appears to be sound in mind.  If this is a practical joke, this editor is going to get into some serious trouble considering that the police may be brought into this.<b style="font-family:comic sans ms; color:purple;">¤~Persian Poet Gal</b> <sup style="color:purple;">(talk)  00:05, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we should err on the side of caution. What can it hurt. Is anyone in Australia? KnightLago (talk) 00:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I sent an email to info at Wikimedia. Hope this is the correct place. KnightLago (talk) 00:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I just requested attention from anyone at IRC who can help. Malinaccier (talk) 00:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec)Left a message with User:Netsnipe, first Australian admin off the top of my head. <font face="verdana" color=#6633cc>Khu <font face="verdana" color=#CC66FF>kri 00:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok good. I blocked and protected the user/user page. KnightLago (talk) 00:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we have done what we can at this point. Now we must wait, and hope for the best. Tiptoety  talk 00:25, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. Malinaccier (talk) 00:26, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess the only thing to do is keep an eye out for a CU and send them over to do the request. I will post if I hear back from the WMF. KnightLago (talk) 00:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I just left a note on User_talk:FT2 who appears to be on-line and have CU privs. Toddst1 (talk) 00:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

For reference, here is the RFCU: (redacted - privacy). Thanks Khukri. Toddst1 (talk) 00:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think Netsnipe is active. Try an admin at WP:AWNB. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 00:37, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I left a note over there asking for an Australian admin or user to come over here. But we still need the CU info to be of any use. KnightLago (talk) 00:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Merged from above
An individual made this (link deleted) now-deleted (oversighted - FT2) statement, presumably from Sydney. Hard to tell if it's serious, or where any contacts should be made, but I didn't want to let it pass.  Acroterion  (talk)  15:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm clueless. Bearian (talk) 16:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Suicide threat from a kid in Sydney. No real way to find them, but someone in Australia may have a better idea.    Acroterion  (talk)  16:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I left this short comment on their talk page informing them that threats like that are not taken lightly and can result in serious measures being taken. Lets pray it was just a joke.<b style="font-family:comic sans ms; color:purple;">¤~Persian Poet Gal</b> <sup style="color:purple;">(talk)  16:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Good idea. His other edit doesn't imply any problem.    Acroterion  (talk)  16:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is the right answer. Can Checkuser  done to contact the appropriate authorities? We're talking about someone's life potentially. Toddst1 (talk) 19:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This is a classic cry for help, joke or not must be followed up on. Will leave a message RCU and if I can get IP will chase it through normal channels. Though it may be better if someone from the foundation got involved or had input. What's the correct channels? <font face="verdana" color=#6633cc>Khu <font face="verdana" color=#CC66FF>kri 23:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Have raised RCU, and seriously think this should be followed up. If it's a hoax oh well no harm done for a bit of effort, if it's not .......<font face="verdana" color=#6633cc>Khu <font face="verdana" color=#CC66FF>kri 23:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I just transcluded the CU request as it looks like Khukri forgot. I am unsure of who to contact from here. Who at should the foundation should be notified?
 * Looks like all that can be done is to wait back for a CU to check it out, there is no way of knowing where this user is editing from. Tiptoety  talk 00:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Conversation is continuing below, I sent the WMF an email, and I agree, from here there is not much else to do. Hopefully a CU is around. KnightLago (talk) 00:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The IP traces to Optus in New South Wales, AU, who are based in Sydney. The user - an alleged and likely minor - has posted what is claimed to be a full name and age. I've oversighted it, for the user's own privacy (it mentions name and age), which part conflicts with the need to find someone to report this to, but also prevents the minor having this note following him around if it were for example not serious or even a hoax. The IP appears to be dynamic. If any user has more ideas what to do (eg calling NSW police) then I'll be glad to pass the name on to whatever external contact is relevant, for the purposes of actual action. There is no other connected user under a different name; the IP would need passing to the ISP for tracing. probably a NSW police matter. Anyone got the phone #? Information available - stated name, stated age, rough area, ISP, and various IP/timestamp combinations. FT2 (Talk 00:38, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Australian Federal Police - www.afp.gov.au - +61 2 9955 4923 Toddst1 (talk) 00:49, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't see the note, but if a serious looking note has been made then the right thing to do is definitely to contact authorities. --<font color="#055505">Apis 00:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Meetup/Sydney; Wikipedians in Sydney (capital of NSW). dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 00:59, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I am australian, can someone please provide the content of the edit and the ip (and any other info checkusers) to me via email and I can contact NSW police if we think it is serious. Viridae Talk 01:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I am in Sydney - I can call the police. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Make it crimestoppers - you will get a better response IMO 1800333000 Viridae Talk 01:05, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Have either FT2 or Todd made the call? KnightLago (talk) 01:07, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think Cas is...although any call would be kinda useless without access to the info FT2 oversighted (thus hoping he emailed it to one of them). Not sure Crimestoppers is the best one to call, but then, I haven't seen the content. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 01:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I've contacted NSW police. They have all the details we have, now. I've also asked that they let us know, if they are able, if all's ok. For future reference NSW state police is ++ (0)2 9956 3199. FT2 (Talk 01:11, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hurray! Thanks for everyones great and quick response. Tiptoety  talk 01:12, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent, did they need a copy of the threat as I noticed you oversighted it? KnightLago (talk) 01:13, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * They have the full text, including stated name, stated date of birth, stated place of birth, ISP, IP, and times logged in. FT2 (Talk 01:15, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. Let us know if you hear anything. KnightLago (talk) 01:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Great.....and resolved. Tiptoety  talk 01:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks: in North America I would have known what to do/ who to contact, but NSW in the middle of their night, not so much.  Acroterion  (talk)  01:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's 11.25am in NSW... &mdash; E  talk aussie 01:25, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Now. Not when the edit was made nine hours ago.    Acroterion  (talk)  01:28, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, lets just hope the police find the kid. KnightLago (talk) 01:37, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry if I'm stating the obvious here but: things like this should always be taken serious, there's no use pondering whether it's a joke or not when someones life might be in danger. And even if it turns out to not be urgent it might be very good it is brought to the surroundings attention. Hope it works out well! --<font color="#055505">Apis 01:54, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Might I note that many policies have been attempted to be created on this subject, but they always end up as guidelines/essays. See WP:TOV. Tiptoety  talk 02:46, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand why people think there's a need to report this in the first place. Presumably, people are quite capable of deciding for themselves whether or not there is any value to them in continuing to live. Who are we to interfere? Kurt Weber ( Go Colts! ) 03:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Because sometimes people aren't "in their right mind" and would not commit suicide otherwise. Surely if dead people could come back and regret killing themselves 99% of the time they would. I could keep rambling on but I won't. -- Ryan <font style="color:white;background:#0000ff;"> talk 03:36, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not our decision to make. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the writings of Thomas Szasz.  Kurt Weber ( Go Colts! ) 03:40, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sometimes people want to help other people (Crazy idea, I know). Some people feel they have a moral obligation to help a fellow human when that person is in danger.  If you don't feel this way then fine.  But don't patronize others for wanting to preserve life and maybe help someone who needs help. <font face="Harlow Solid Italic"><font size="2px" color="teal"> « Gonzo fan2007  (talk ♦ contribs) 03:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, if you do not want to protect another's life than dont. But do not get in the way of those who do. Tiptoety  talk 03:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Who are you to force your so-called "help" upon him whether he wants it or not? Who are you to decide what's best for him?  It's not about wanting to "protect" another life or not--it's about respecting another's right to end his own life on his terms, when he wants to.  I wholly object to anyone who attempts to interfere with anyone's rights, and I damn well will get in the way of those who try.  Kurt Weber ( Go Colts! ) 04:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Update - email from NSW police - child located and is safe and well. FT2 (Talk 04:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Another legal threat on Talk:Giovanni di Stefano
Another legal threat has been issued against editors (including myself) and Wikipedia on the Talk:Giovanni di Stefano page, this time by a registered account User:Pnazionale. I've sent an e-mail with the link to the diff to Mike Godwin. <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000">Avruch <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000"> T 22:00, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * For the record, here is my advice for any editor tempted to take up cudgels against Mr. di Stefano: Run away, very fast, and keep running. He is resourceful, intelligent, rich and a lawyer.  This is, in case it was not blindingly obvious, a fearsome combination.  Every single edit should e backed by attribution and if possible personally sanctioned by His Holiness the Pope. Guy (Help!) 22:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I've blocked that account for legal threats at any rate. John Reaves 22:38, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I've just noticed I was included on that list...John Reaves 22:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In that case (I have looked at it) I endorse this block. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 22:53, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The article has been afd'd, I hope it is successful and agree with Guy (well other than re Ratzinger). Thanks, SqueakBox 22:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Luckily for me and the rest of us, there is a pretty high bar to proving a case of defamation in the US, proving it in Italy will have absolutely no effect on me, I have a couple of friends in the ACLU, and I at least haven't made any edits to the page that added unattributed information ;-) Thanks for taking care of the block, John. <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000">Avruch <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000"> T 01:08, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, note there is an AfD running for this article, see Articles for deletion/Giovanni di Stefano. I think the closing admin should consult the WMF before any action is taken. KnightLago (talk) 01:45, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes well I already said there has been an afd two comments up, sighs. While I ma glad to hear, Avruch, that you feel immune to prosecution I hope that won't allow you to ignore the plight of those less fortunate than yourself. Are you certain that wikipedia is not subject to prosecution. And if not why are you so blase about the plight of others and of the organisation for which we work that you, perhaps, have a role in having created merely, merely because you personally are immune from prosecution in Italy. Your argument would allow any penniless teenage to defame who they wanted because they personally were immune from losing money because they have not made any. For e this argument is not being a good worker for wikipedia, its the "I'm alright, Jack xxxx everyonme else and the organization for which we work" argument. Thanks,
 * Zee effect of Barrett v. Rosenthal is effectively that if you are in the US and a statement is made by a penniless teenager online there isn't much you can do about it.Geni 02:11, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

SqueakBox 02:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I missed your comment. I think at this point everyone is overreacting. We should not be taking rash steps without guidance from the foundation. Has Mike Godwin even seen the threat, the AfD? Like I said above, the closing admin needs to consult the foundation before taking any action. KnightLago (talk) 02:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Seriously? Prosecution? Give me a break. Are you alleging a criminal violation? Because di Stefano isn't. So far, you've said that I have been trying to smear him, that I want to do him harm, and that I lack moral fiber. Now, I'm at risk to prosecution and risking the prosecution of others as well. What is your angle in all this, SqueakBox? <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000">Avruch <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000"> T 03:12, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

user removing poll results
On the talk page of Afghanistan a poll was opened for whether to include the term Afghani in the demonym list of the info-box or not. The poll is very straight forward and two users already voted. But user: Carl.bunderson keeps crossing out the poll and its results because he does not like the results and is opening a new poll which is very different from this one. His poll also asks for Afghanistani to be included or not, but that has not been discusses here and that is not what the original poll was about. The poll is only asking to inlcude Afghani or not, just because he doesn't like the results he crosses it out. Can an admin please tell him to stop doing this? Thanks. He is also a bully, dictator, throws around silly accusations, and insults others. Can someone also tell him to stop that or give him a warning with short block maybe? Thanks. Also he's violated 3RR because he removed the poll more than three times.


 * The poll is not straighforward--the way he worded it, people were encouraged to vote for his position. We all know that the questions you ask affect the answers you get. He is trying to manipulate the results by manipulating the questions. I am a well-esltablished user, and he is an anon who has done nothing but work on this talk page. The Afghansitan article has a shistory of socks, and I would not be surprised if he was in this vein. I am agsint the poll in as far as it is unfair. I have provided for a new poll that will be fair, and is worded essentially the same as poll was worded earlier which established consensus on this. My concern is that the anon is manipulating the system. He has also tried to stuff the ballot box, as it were, by getting people to vote on Wikiproject pages. He has more knowledge of WP than an anon would usually have, so this also suggests to me that he is a banned sock. Also, one of the two users who has voted is a sock. This is ridiculous and anons need to step in to make the poll fair. Carl.bunderson (talk) 20:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Again this user is throwing around false accusations and acting as a dictator. Both the users that voted are not socks but long time users. Any admin can see for themselves and see that the poll was straightforward. It is you who is trying to manipulate things. His idea that there is something wrong with the poll is his POV. I hope admins take a look at this and see what a rude editor this Carl.bunderson is. He thinks he owns Wikipedia or something.


 * I said one of the users was a sock, not both. And look at their user page--one is a suspected sock. Carl.bunderson (talk) 20:27, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * He has been accused of being a sock before and checked and the result was negative. You also threw insults at me and called me blind. No one is asking to be involved with the Afghanistan article, if you are getting frustrated because you don't like the poll's results and bullying and cursing at new users and acting like a dictator, then you can move on to another article.


 * You need a dictionary. I never cursed. I called you blind because you seem to be. You are blind, figuratively, to the difference in our polls. I am obviously open to a poll...I made a new one that is actually fair. I have been involved in this page for a long time, defending it from nationalist/pov-pushing socks such as yourself. Carl.bunderson (talk) 20:41, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Carl Bunderson's version distinctly differs. It seeks to create all new consensus about what can or can not be in the infobox. The old poll merely sought consensus about adding a single element. This is somewhat disturbing, because it was Carl Bunderson who so loudly advocated that consensus had been established. It's almost like he's gone to a WP:POINT violation, arguing that if any part of the old consensus is challenged, the entirity should be scuttled. The old poll seems to be far more circumspect in its goals and methods, and more designed to modify consensus than rewrite it whole. ThuranX (talk) 22:11, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes the other way also includes a poll on Afghanistani demonym. But that is a different demonym and so should have its own poll. This is what I'm trying to tell Carl.bunderson but he doesn't listen because he accuses me of ignoring Afghanistani. I now added a separate poll for Afghanistani as a result so he stops accusing me of neglecting Afghanistani. Now we have a poll for both demonyms, I really don't see what else is missing.


 * Carl.bunderson is not the only one who thinks that something was wrong with the anon's original poll. As someone who has never been involved in editing the Afghanistan page until the anon left a message about it at WikiProject Central Asia, I disagree that the old poll was fair; its wording struck me as push polling. I tried to reword it (diff) but the anon rejected even that minor change in favour of his own version. cab (talk) 00:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually user: CaliforniaAliBaba I did not see that you re-worded it. But shortly after I changed it back to the way you had it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.209.223 (talk) 03:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I also read your edit to change the options as a different choice. Perhaps your option should have instead been added, instead of changing the poll's nature. Again, it looks like the initial poll was to widen extant consensus, while subsequent edits were to change the fundamental nature of the poll. ThuranX (talk) 03:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

(undent) Thuranx, please read the conversation between me and the anon on the talk page, as well as going through the whole history of the demonym issue on the talk page. Afghani and Afghanistani ought to be dealt with together, not separately. Consensus on this matter has in the past dealt with all three demonyms, not just doing one at a time. The page has suffered greatly from nationalist pov-pushers and it is ridiculous the number of socks that have attacked the page. Look at my contribution history…which of the two users is more likely to be pushing pov? Me or him? As cab pointed out, the anon has tried to stuff the ballot and engage in push polling. The poll I provided for is as neutral as can be, and is practically the same as a poll that we had on this same issue earlier. Carl.bunderson (talk) 04:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Since Carl.bunderson was complaining that we also needed a poll on Afghanistani, I started one. He was trying to poll Afghani and Afghanistani together without even giving the poller any reasons for Afghanistani. I started a second poll and give the poller some background info. The two terms need their own poll because for instance a user might want Afghani but not Afghanistani, or they might want Afghanistani but not Afghani. Also, Carl.bunderson is now calling me idiot (link) after I told him to stop crossing out the poll I started first. He has called me blind, now idiot, and keeps accusing me of things which I keep proving him wrong anyway. The reason is pretty easy to understand why Afghani and Afghanistani need to be separate polls. I hope he understands this now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.210.156 (talk) 16:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Read the the talk page archive. Afghani and Afghanistani have always been dealt with together, and you have not provided a reason that they should not be treated the same now—there is precedent for dealing with them in one poll, and there is a substantial reason as well: both are alternative demonyms which are sourced, but used far less than is the primary demonym, Afghan. Also, while both are soured, neither are included in the OED. You have utterly failed to provide a reason for treating them separately. And my calling you idiot and blind have been justified. I mean them matter-of-factly, not as an insult. Carl.bunderson (talk) 16:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I just provided you a very simple reason: for instance a user might want Afghani but not Afghanistani, or they might want Afghanistani but not Afghani. In the last poll long time ago, this was not considered, so this is why I am now treating them as 2 polls. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.210.156 (talk) 16:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * There has to be a reason for the positions people take when they vote. You have said that people might want to include one but not the other, but you haven’t actually given a reason for this. It is ludicrous to provide one but not the other, because both are sourced but not recognized nearly as widely as is Afghan. You have failed to give a reason why someone would want to include one but not the other. Carl.bunderson (talk) 16:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Carl, All I see is that you are interested in getting your way on this. I see little to no POV pushing on asking for a modification to existing consensus. If it's a good idea, it will be supported, with solid arguments; and if not supported, then the same. However, stating that you don't like his poll, and slashing it out, then starting a competing poll, is childish tantrum behavior, and you need to stop it. Your best option would be to state that IF the results indicate a change, it's evidence for a whole new poll, one covering any and all permutations, which requests reasoning from the 'non-voting' responders. It's that simple. All I can see here is you obstructing to get your way. knock it off. ThuranX (talk) 20:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * How can I be solely interested in getting my way on this? If that was the case, I would not have provided a poll which was completely neutrally worded. Did you bother to look at the page history, and the talk archive? Afghanistan has been a major draw to cases of sockpuppetry. Why do you think that an editor who spends the vast majority of his time on here reverting vandalism is acting petulantly? Who is more likely to do that? An anon who edited a few pages last month, was blocked, and then came on and has done nothing but deal with the Afghanistan page, or an editor who has a history of being a hammer against vandals? I’m fine with consensus changing, I’m perfectly aware that it can, but look at my wording of the poll? Can you tell me in what way it is inferior to the anon’s? If the results indicate a change, why bother making a second poll to cover any and all options? Does it not make more sense to expedite and move to the ultimate poll in the first place? Carl.bunderson (talk) 02:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The fact that Carl.bunderson voted to not include Afghani and Afghanistani in the info-box in his own poll that he designed to push poll, shows his true intentions. He crosses out other polls that he does not like the results of, he then makes his own poll in a way to push poll, he then votes his own choice. He also claims to keep up the discussions while reverting but he took out all support for Afghanistani. In addition, he has broken 3RR like 20 times now and also insults other users by calling them "blind" "idiot" etc... and he throws around accusations. I think an admin should get involved in this case. 02:12, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Given he's been 3RR blocked on the article, I'd support further admin intervention. ThuranX (talk) 05:25, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

user: Carl.bunderson vandalizing Talk:Afghanistan
this user is vandalizing this talk page by removing sourced content from it. can someone advise him to stop?

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AAfghanistan&diff=206828633&oldid=206828349

in addition to vandalizing, he has also borken 3rr in the process.

SwatiAfridi (talk) 04:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * WP:3RR violations can be reported at WP:AN3. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  04:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Onion Trump
I just posted this on the deleting admin page but then saw the message he was away on holiday for 7 days - can someone else take care of it please.

''Can you undelete this please, it doesn't meet the CSD criteria as per WP:BAND "Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable." - in this case Richie_Edwards.'' Exxolon (talk) 04:58, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You can make your case for undeletion at deletion review. That would probably work best for what you're looking for. &mdash;  scetoaux (T|C)  05:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Done, but for some reason there are three from today at Deletion_review/Log/2008_April_20 but only one appearing on the main page at Deletion review for some reason? Exxolon (talk) 06:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism?
I reverted this edit made by User:71.145.185.27. He/She then gave me a notice here about what he/she was doing. Is this user's edit vandalism?--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">RyRy5 (<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk ) 05:43, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If what the person added is in fact, accurate, then I wouldn't consider it vandalism. Unfortunately, I'm not personally familiar with the subject matter, so someone else will have to pitch in regarding that. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  05:45, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not vandalism, but I'd consider it unnecessary and right on the verge of advertising. Anything more than a brief mention of where the games air is too much. I would have removed it, also. Redrocket (talk) 05:48, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Can an uninvolved Admin look at these admin blocks

 * Requests_for_comment/William_M._Connolley_2

Myself and another editor was blocked by William M. Connolley in an article he was personally edit warring on. I decided to check his block log and see if there were other abuses of administrative powers.

In about 50% of the blocks, William uses his administrative power to block other users he is in edit wars with.

In the past, admin FeliciousMonk and Viridae have reverted and protested about his blocks.

What are the options, other than RfC? Inclusionist (talk) 05:07, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You know, you really shouldn't keep reposting this. There's already an RfC open about it. Jtrainor (talk) 05:33, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I agree, it looks like forum shopping to me...-- Jaeger   123  10:26, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks Jaegar. I was just appalled by this behavior. I often feel helpless, like there are two levels of wikipedians: admins/insider veterans and everyone else. The rules don't apply to the admins/insider veterans. The rules clearly state what admins should and shouldn't do, but there doesn't seem to be an effective way to punish abuses like this. My question is sincere.


 * No need to address Jtainor's comments simply because he is deeply involved in this argument, justifying Williams abuses. Bravo, Jtainor, effective way to shape the comments. Inclusionist (talk) 07:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Attempts to reveal identity, violations of WP:HARASS
The previous report was removed by bot after 24 hours, without any admin comment, and the false personal identity linkage is still not removed from archives. User:Babakexorramdin attempts to reveal a personal identity and falsely associate me with a different physical person.

On April 16th, after my edit of Azerbaijani people, User:Ali doostzadeh left the following edit comment:
 * Good source. Just fixing the technicality based on the source Atabek provided and adding a little more detail

Following his edit, and referring to the same source, User:Babakexorramdin leaves this edit comment:
 * good source by Javid, I agree

Prior such attempts to link me to the SAME person were made by User:Artaxiad - , for which he was banned -. User:Kirill Lokshin subsequently deleted from archives all of references to the full name of person (Javid ...) falsely associated by Artaxiad with my account. Now, over a year later, User:Babakexorramdin makes the same claim. The question is how did Babakexorramdin get information to make such claim if Artaxiad is banned for a year now and links are removed from archives for the same period.

In addition, I am also a subject of harassment by User:VartanM - by User:VartanM and by User:Fedayee here -. Note that prior such harassment against User:Ehud Lesar resulted in ArbCom case, where "identity revelations" were proven false, but neither of the perpetrators were punished. Enjoying a complete lenience towards his conduct, VartanM now made another statement on archived ANI report :
 * Atabek was not careful enough, as on several occasion he edited unlogged from University, Work and Home and made almost identical statements that were also made by the alleged identity in press briefings.

I am not sure what entity VartanM represents to turn Wikipedia into personal witch hunt, and mislead others link User:Babakexorramdin to make false personal associations, but please, take a note of WP:HARASSMENT below: I never linked myself to named identity. I have additional evidence I can provide by email. Thanks. Atabek (talk) 17:37, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * WP:HARASSMENT says: "Posting another person's personal information (legal name, date of birth, social security number, home or workplace address, telephone number, email address, or other contact information, regardless of whether or not the information is actually correct) is harassment, unless that editor voluntarily provides or links to such information himself or herself."


 * Ladies and Gentleman meet Atabek. Atabek is a member of two ArbCom cases and is under various enforcements and restrictions. He has re-posted this false report three times already and the above post is a fine example of forum shopping.


 * Now, just because he copy pasted the same report it doesn't mean that I have to do the same, so here is a link to my last reply. And Atabek please provide evidence of where I reviled your legal name, date of birth, social security number, home or workplace address, telephone number, email address, or other contact information. I hope someone notices his disruptive behavior. VartanM (talk) 05:11, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

VartanM: "on several occasion he edited unlogged from University, Work and Home and made almost identical statements that were also made by the alleged identity in press briefings." - why User:VartanM - party to two ArbCom cases - spends his Wikipedia editing time stalking and harassing contributor identities (paradoxically contributors associated with a single country, such as User:Ehud Lesar, User:AdilBaguirov or myself)? Is this important for encyclopedia? Atabek (talk) 09:05, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

from the other page. I do not know Atabek and I do not know why does he have against me, while I have always been nice to him. From other page: I do not know what is this fuzz about. I do not know who vartan or Fadayee or Atabeks are. I know doezen of Javids. Javid means eternal in Persian. I assume it has linguistic ties with the word zendegi, to live *imperative is Zi(v( z, zh and J are interchangeable. You hear much of these slogans in Iran Javid bad this or that, means long live this or that. This is word referred to persons you like or as a gesture in order to calm down people who oppose you. This word is usually used by me as a compliment or attribution, like oh man,. or viva, the same as I say zende bashi. I do not really understand Atabek's commotion about this. Especially that I am in general nice and supportive to/of his edits.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 18:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC) I have an email confirmation that Babakexorramdin meant the name and personality, and I can forward it to Kirill if requested. I do expect the comment to be purged out of Wikipedia, since it clearly violates the privacy of unrelated individual. I also believe that Babakexorramdin's claim, which is clearly the same as claims of banned Artaxiad, which were deleted by Kirill earlier, are connected, especially considering additional accusations made by VartanM and Fedayee, threatening with false identity revelations during Ehud Lesar ArbCom case. These folks need to be explained by way of enforcing WP:HARASS and WP:PRIVACY to give up personal battleground mentality, and concentrate on topics rather than personalities. Atabek (talk) 22:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC) It is funny that you talk about email confirmation. Neither Atabek nor I have ever exchanged emails. Again I do not know who Artaxid, Vartan or Fedayee are. I also do not know who Ehud is and have never followed the discussion thereabout. Moreover I do not think that I ever have revealed anyones identity. There are many people here who call me by names other than mine. Is it a big deal? There are dozens of Ali, Hassan, etc... I do not see the fuzz--Babakexorramdin (talk) 22:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC) --Babakexorramdin (talk) 14:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

FT2's behaviour
While I appreciate I generate a huge amount of interest on Wikipedia, comments and amateurish psychoanalysis of me by FT2 are now, in my view manically dangerous and are amounting to personal attack. I have posted this on his page "I think FT2 you have become rather fixated on me, your fixation is now bordering on obsession, and I'm wondering if it is healthy. I am beginning to feel mentally threatened and attacked by your strange behaviour and posts. Please stop." While I appreciate he is the Arbcom's appointed spokesman such introspection about me, by an unqualified layman which is then published to the internet is damaging not only to me, but to the project. I make no comment on FT2's mental state, but I want an admin or Arb to ask him to desist in his obsessive behaviour towards me. There are 15? Arbs, his interest in me is now beyond a joke, and I am feeling threatened and unnerved by him, not to mention his comments which are preserved on the internet for posterity. I have as much right to feel unthreatened here as anyone else. Thank you. Giano (talk) 18:29, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Giano II, you are a great contributor to WP, but you must avoid taking troll bait, or whatever it is. Take a deep breath and let others investigate the matter, and block or take other action, if necessary.  Please take care! Bearian (talk) 19:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Look this is a voluntary project. We're all here to build an encyclopedia. As far as I can see you're just pissed off at the arb ruling. I know nothing about you're history, but shit like this shouldn't be posted. This page shouldn't even exist for fucks sake...nor should arbcom...it's just people who want to make bad shit happen to people who have done stuff to them out of spite, that's why this page is here, to report crap like that, not to start it. Forget about it, you're just stirring up drama, go edit the mainspace.-- Jaeger   123  19:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm <font face="verdana" color="hotpink">Naerii and I support this comment! 19:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If you ask me, that comment was very inappropriate. I realize you apologized in your edit summary, but the comments you made here were just plain uncivil.  Please read WP:CIVIL if you haven't already. &mdash;  scetoaux (T|C)  20:25, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Tough one, this. FT2 is not good at soundbytes, I know what he's trying to achieve, but I am talking to him about this precise issue because I think he needs to do it in a way that will include rather than alienate Giano.  Giano is a good litmus test for a lot of things to do with the community; like SPUI he is not easy to get along with, not slow to tell you his views on anything, and can be perceived by those not familiar with him as aggressive or domineering.  Giano is, surely, Italian?  Are we not aware that Italians have a reputation for being mercurial?  I sincerely hope we are not trying to assert that only milquetoasts will be able to edit Wikipedia successfully.  If someone is busy, and trying to work something through before the next edit conflict, then maybe they are brusque, and this can sound like aggression.  And I can see why Giano is frustrated and feeling persecuted, and I can see that FT2 is trying really hard - and thinking at great length, being FT2 - about how to address a perceived problem without driving Giano away.  I think we should see what Geogre's thoughts on this might yield, I believe he may be able to codify what a lot of people are thinking but having trouble articulating. Guy (Help!) 19:54, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Jaeger- there is usually no need to swear to a great extent, however strong your feelings. <b style="color:#FF1493">Merkin's</b> <b style="color:#FF1493">mum</b> 20:07, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If I behaved like that, I never have, you would all be rightly calling for me to be blocked for ever. I say my piece, unwelcome as it normally is, and I'm on to the next subject. This is get a stuck in rallying the "lets all hate Giano." organized and seemingly condoned campaign. In the last few days I have emailed 2 Arbs with my concerns - neither commented on them. So fine, I am hated in certain quarters, I have broad shoulders, I can cope with that. However, the Arbcom are encouraging this, no one is stopping him, thousands of words, longer than even my most boring FA, all on pure attack Giano are being written by this man. I am feeling personally alienated and personally threatened and attacked. He is obsessed with me, completely obsessed. If the Arbcom won't see that, I hope the community will, and encourage him to stop. Any other editor would have been blocked for such attacks and odd behaviour, am I so wicked and evil that the usual pritections of an editor can no longer be accorded to me - or is this part of a grander plan? Giano (talk) 20:18, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm with Guy in that Geogre's thoughts are very often worth hearing... However I have a fairly high confidence I already know what he'll say. Good suggestion nevertheless. ++Lar: t/c 20:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Not sure where to place the indent here. Broadly agree. Some of FT2's rambling monologues look just like personal attacks.  See my comment on FT2's talk page, and one on Giano's page.  I can see how it would come across as threatening.  The Rationalist (talk) 20:35, 19 April 2008 (UTC)  Oh yes and if Guy can say Italian can I say North Korean.  Some of this stuff is just too creepy. The Rationalist (talk) 20:37, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You see here is classic example Brown haired girl - never forgiven me for opposing her in the Troubles arbcom, they encourage these people, all they want to see is me gone. Soon they be very lucky. FT2, he is obsessed with me. he neds to stop. Giano (talk) 21:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, some people bear grudges. Fuck 'em.  Unwatch their talk pages, and ask them to unwatch yours.  Guy (Help!) 22:35, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I unwatch her a long time ago, I think she likes being on my page. Giano (talk) 22:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * YAWN! This whole drama between Giano, FT2 & Arbcom is just about as exciting as User GoodDay himself. GoodDay (talk) 22:51, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * So at the end of the day, no Admin or Arb is going to ask FT2 to desist from his worrying, obsessive attacking behaviour. I see. On your own heads' be it then. Don't say I did not try to resolve this through the proper channels. Giano (talk) 08:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Giano, please. I agree with you. I'm disappointed with the behaviour of FT2, whom I supported in his ArbCom election. But be realistic—nothing much is going to eventuate, and you know it (so does everyone else). Please let it drop, put a banner on your talk page that says "FT2, please don't comment here, for everyone's sake", and finish off your Winter Palace article so I can bug you to write about some Romanian ones. Please. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 08:25, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Abecedare
This user User:Abecedare is not allowing anybody to contribute to article Bhavishya Purana and claiming everybody as banned socks. Note, This user is perhaps an sock puppet of an Admin and locks the pages without notice. Could an admin inform this user to allow people to contribute to article Bhavishya Purana. User seems to be watching that article and reverts any edits made. Further the claims on the article are way off and need to be put in place. --MianJi (talk) 20:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Good grief. Major sockpuppetry outbreak over there, as detailed here . Redrocket (talk) 20:51, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

What does that have to do with article Bhavishya Purana ? Recently some users user:Aryasamaj and User:Khansye couldnt contribute because of this user Abecedare. --MianJi (talk) 21:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Its funny how this user:Redrocket claims all users as sock puppets of User:DWhiskaZ when this user Redrocket is not even mentioned on DWhiskaZ page or talk contribution nothing. Note - Seems to be another sockpuppet of User Abecedare. --MianJi (talk) 21:06, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "Funny?" Why, I think it's hilarious. You caught me. I've been lurking for an entire year, making more than 5000 edits and just waiting for the day when I could chime in on this argument. Congratulations on seeing through the black shroud of my elaborate deception, Johnny Sock.


 * To get back to the subject, the article is rife with confirmed sockpuppetry pushing a particular POV. Sockpuppet edits from a banned user are reverted on sight, as is policy. Nothing more to see here. Redrocket (talk) 21:18, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You know I think I'm hearing some quacking here. Wildthing61476 (talk) 21:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * When you have that many confirmed sockpuppets attacking an article as a team, it casts suspicion on any new editors who suddenly create IDs and become experts on a specific subject. Both of those editors (and you) have only been on wikipedia for about sixteen hours, it seems, and all of you started in with the same edits to the same article. It seems a mite fishy, at least from the outside. Redrocket (talk) 21:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

This sock puppet goin on about nobody can contribute to articles. this section is for admins to deal with User Abecedare. --MianJi (talk) 21:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * For those wondering about the context: This is not a content dispute; it's kookery. The Bhavishya Purana ("Bhavishya" means "future") is a traditional text, last updated some time in the 19th century, with the charming affectation of having its contents cast in the future tense.  For some reason, an entire drawer of socks are taking a close interest in the BP's "prediction" of Muhammad.  The sock-puppetry is best understood in the light of this discussion. rudra (talk) 21:24, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

This user User:Rudrasharman is another sock puppet or team of User:Abecedare. The concern is on contributing to Bhavishya Purana and fix up the article. Article needs to be in shape just like any other article on Wiki. --MianJi (talk) 21:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Based on the confirmed sockpuppetry and the fringe theory noticeboard pages linked above, the article appears to be in good shape. I would suggest if you have changes to make, you discuss them on the talk page and try and gain consensus. Good luck with all that. Redrocket (talk) 21:37, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Some admin talk to this User:Abecedare and notify user on edits. --MianJi (talk) 21:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Or you could try and do as I suggested above, and make your case on the talk page. That's really a better solution for you, I promise. Redrocket (talk) 21:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

✅ Thatcher 23:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * quack, quack
 * Thanks, Thatcher. I was not even informed of this thread, but am glad to see sanity prevail. Can some admin., please block and tag these accounts ? The sockpupeteer in or his sockmaster . Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 00:16, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ctrains is not an account...— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 00:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Odd, I thought I copied it straight from the checkuser output. It is . Thatcher 02:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Looks like it's/they're using IPs now. rudra (talk) 07:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Apparently, we all are socks - well, that's useful evidence for my research project. But seriously, can we semi-protect the following pages: Last time, they were semi-protected for 3 days, but that was obviously not sufficient. Abecedare (talk) 07:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I am surprised that the checkuser missed socks like, which are now busy at Long term abuse (isn't that ironic!) Abecedare (talk) 07:45, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Violations of WP:NPA, and WP:CIVIL
I criticized the use of a revisionist fringe source that contradicts the mainstream scholarly view of a historical entity, and User:Slackerlawstudent responds to my criticism of the source in questions by saying "The only reason you seek to discredit him is because of your own obvious prejudice against anything Arab." Is this acceptable conduct by this user? He's basically accruing me of a being a racist, because I criticized a source. I had previously warned him not to make such accusations and only comment on the content, not the editor per WP:NPA, but he keeps attacking me.--07fan (talk) 03:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Content dispute. User:07fan seems to be guilty of the same here where he/she declared "historical revisionism ( a common Pan-Arabist practice) " Toddst1 (talk) 04:20, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was talking about the source, not the user - that is the difference between the two comments.--07fan (talk) 04:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a personal attack, but snippy snarkiness from both editors. Calling someone's proposed source "revisionist fringe" is a bit hard edged. Try talking about reliable sources instead. Gwen Gale (talk) 04:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Just a note. Additional discussion on this topic at User_talk:Toddst1. Toddst1 (talk) 04:50, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Saying "this would be historical revisionism ( a common Pan-Arabist practice)" may not quite be racist, but could easily be taken that way and it indeed is a kind of sweeping and wholly misleading polemic which has no place in a discussion of sources. Gwen Gale (talk) 05:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not nec. racist, as pan-Arabism is a coherent political ideology. I note, however, that I got into some hot water recently for saying something about "pan-Arabist editors", so it is an affiliation which is no longer as uncontroversial as once it was. -- Relata refero (disp.) 08:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
This was here a few days ago, but I'm wondering if any outside admins are willing to check out the situation at this article. I'm no fan of the movie or its viewpoint, but the article has some very blatant WP:NPOV and WP:SYN problems, immediately in advance of its first public showing tomorrow. A steady stream of editors has arrived to complain, but with all the noise it's become quite difficult to deal with. I think people would like to avoid protecting the article, but if a few admins or others might look in with focused and specific ways to help, it might do a good deal for the article over the next few days. Mackan79 (talk) 23:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Mackan79 seems unable to accept the requirements of NPOV: Pseudoscience and NPOV: Giving "equal validity", and has made accusations of WP:SYN on content sourced from the National Center for Science Education used as a secondary source from a mainstream viewpoint. Additional eyes will be welcome. .. dave souza, talk 00:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Mackan79 has also brought some very good points to the table. A formal peer review of the article would be most helpful. Angry Christian (talk) 00:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not many in comparison to those that ignore WP:NPOV Undue Weight. Odd nature (talk) 00:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec) Indeed, my concern is particularly with the first overview section here, discussed here, which has significant WP:SYN problems as well as strongly opinionated language ("The film openly sets out," "The film ignores," "Stein tries to dismiss," etc.) The WP:SYN issue relates to sections that are sourced only to articles about intelligent design, but predating or not discussing this film.  Some editors say this is necessary to present the predominant view on a type of pseudoscience (a characterization I don't dispute), while I and various others are trying to clarify that this is an article about the film, not about ID, which means so satisfy WP:SYN we need sources that discuss the movie.  I think it can be appreciated if people read the section at issue, linked above and again here. Mackan79 (talk) 00:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I find the sort of disingenuousnesses in Mackan's comment more than a little hard to leave unrebutted. He's been been trying for days to remove the majority viewpoint from the article, ignoring the consensus of established regular editors from Wikiproject Intelligent Design like Dave Souza and FM. The "steady stream of editors" he mentions have been ID promoters by-and-large, and are the only ones there who've supported Mackan's proposed changes; so what does that tell you? Odd nature (talk) 00:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It tells me that the vast majority of editors who think ID is a pseudoscience and should be thoroughly debunked - but are nevertheless interested in applying Wikipedia policy - are scared off the page by persistent incivility and accusations of bias and whitewashing. This needs to be cleaned up, with civility parole if necessary. -- Relata refero (disp.) 06:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * There's a lot of bias cooking in that article, and it probably needs a top down overhaul. It currently reads like an attack piece on ID, instead of simply presenting the unbiased facts about the film, and the film's reception. Based on the FOX News review, just an unbiased reporting will show what a load of steaming dookie the movie is, so remove all the attacking and smears that can't be readily supported and shown to be relevant. ThuranX (talk) 00:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Can you give us one example of such a "smear" then? Odd nature (talk) 00:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You've already been given them. ThuranX (talk) 01:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I should clarify that Odd nature appears to be one of the more problematic editors on the page. His first comment to me was here, where he told me to "stop trying to whitewash the page" (based on no other interaction that I'm aware of). He repeated a similar comment here. He's the one who most recently replaced the current version here, also removing the NPOV tag placed by another editor here, but doesn't seem interested in discussing the problems on the talk page. I'd attempt to reinstate an improved version, but my concern is that Odd nature will continue to revert without discussion and that this will lead to page protection (just as the movie is about to be released) Mackan79 (talk) 00:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I've made a cursory pass at some of the most obvious problems, like some of the phrases cited above, some poor grammatical constructs, and the spreading of review material throughout the article to further knock it down. ThuranX (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the look and the revisions. I wonder if having reviewed the section you'd have an opinion on the version here by comparison (any other eyes would still be welcome). Mackan79 (talk) 01:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

As the primary author of the page, I have watched with some dismay but sense of inevitability as the page language has become more and more twisted and distorted. The English is tortured. There are all kinds of textural infelicities. This is what happens when you have the "encyclopedia everyone can edit" and it is on a topic that many are excited about (a controversial film opening tomorrow). We have had a large number of editors who have never been at the page before, and some who ostensibly have never been at Wikipedia before, on all sides of the issue, showing up to edit. And redit. And edit and edit again. Under these circumstances, it should be no surprise that the article is a load of stilted awkward prose. Of course it should be rewritten; I have said this repeatedly. I have done it twice already, top to bottom. And under this kind of editorial assault, doing it again at the moment is somewhat pointless; no edit has much chance of "sticking". All we can do is manage it a bit so it does not descend too rapidly into nonsense, but it is inevitable that it descend under this type of pressure. No one can guard it 24 hours a day 7 days a week, and even if we could, it would be highly inadvisable and contrary to the mission of Wikipedia. --Filll (talk) 01:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

What can we do to get a formal peer review? Angry Christian (talk) 02:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The smartest thing to do is to wait until the movie closes, probably in a week or so. And then everyone loses interest. And we split off a couple of sections into side articles. And then when it is quiet, and much smaller, it can be rewritten.--Filll (talk) 03:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why we would give up on the article while so many people are coming to visit it. These are the important days currently, when by far the most readers are looking to Wikipedia as a resource for this film.  Right now we are blatantly failing our core policies, with a number of editors on the page actively preventing compliance with WP:NPOV and WP:NOR; if those are non-negotiable, then we need some admins or others to step in and take a look.  Mackan79 (talk) 04:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * See WP:NPOV/FAQ and WP:NOR. Too many editors, new to the article, want to give credence to the views of the film makers presented in primary sources without third party evaluation, and to push the majority scientific view off into other paragraphs or a separate section, blatantly contravening our core policies. . . dave souza, talk 09:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I for one am giving up on it. All my edits were reverted as POV pushing, even the ones where I clarified what 'it' and 'he' means, where they were unclear. When grammar is POV, it's not worth fighting it. OrangeMarlin can run that page however he wants. Don't cross the admins. ThuranX (talk) 04:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

has given the best advise. The film is at its most controversial today. Sort of like Snakes on a plane: remember that? Two weeks after release, no one did. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 05:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * We can see what happens, but it isn't actually just today, and I'm fairly doubtful things will change. Like various things, it's something experienced editors would pretty much have to check out the article to see. Of course, most of these would probably know better than to get involved, but I guess that's a different story... Mackan79 (talk) 05:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Well most experienced editors actually know what NPOV is and so on.--Filll (talk) 05:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hah. Not the ones who perpetually revert all edits not made by their coterie, even to the level of grammatical fixes. ThuranX (talk) 12:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if additional eyes will come, but it should be clarified that the issue here is not driveby editors, but a question of whether a film that promotes intelligent design should itself (the film, in an article about it) be treated as a fringe view, thus specifically removing the NPOV requirement that it be treated "fairly." For example, we currently have an overview that, instead of stating what is in the film, immediately jumps in the second and third sentences to what the film ignores, and stating that the film is confusing and inconsistent. This is being defended by long term editors of the page. I understand we could have a long mediation on the issue, but I think it is a clear enough misunderstanding of NPOV that a few more eyes could be helpful in resolving the issue while so many people are reading the page (the stream of reader complaints here is well more than I have seen on any other page). Mackan79 (talk) 12:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This is a standard argument from proponents of WP:FRINGE views: "I do not like what the mainstream sources say, especially the criticisms, so we should ignore those and just go with the positive sources". Riiiiiight. But sorry, that is not WP:NPOV.--Filll (talk) 12:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a large part of what turned What the Bleep Do We Know into such a battleground. Once we all agreed to live by the painful restriction that only sources that actually mentioned the film were admissible, it got better. Still, that article seems to be under permanent protection, so I can't hold out much hope for this one stabilizing.Kww (talk) 13:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I'm saying needs to happen in terms of the sourcing here, Kww, but is being denied by Filll, Dave, and some others, apparently on the theory that anyone who suggests this is pushing a fringe view. Mackan79 (talk) 14:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Mackan79, as well as the many readers called in support, evidently want a POV balance that is not reflected in the reliable secondary sources I've looked at. The film first and foremost promotes pseudoscience, demanding that it be given a pass from actually having to produce a testable theory or any research work on the grounds that it's a matter of religious faith. Mainstream science and education organisations have provided detailed background on the disingenuous claims made in the film and in its promotion, and NPOV requires that we should not give undue weight or credence to the fringe view. All statements should be verifiable from reliable sources, and not based on the presuppositions of the editors or their political or religious views. .. dave souza, talk 12:58, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * First off: I am about as far from a fringe-believer or -apologist as one is ever likely to find. However, I find this an interesting conundrum; because the movie is in fact ABOUT something considered "fringe", it almost seems to me that "undue weight" works BACKWARDS from the norm in this situation--in other words, the constant insistence on scientific viewpoints, in an article about a movie which is ABOUT fringe-science, would be the "undue" in "undue weight". Wouldn't a compromise view be something to the effect of a caveat at the beginning, like "The movie states this. We know there's a whole 'nother viewpoint out there, which is commonly considered more scientifically viable; however, this article isn't about that, it's about _____________"....in other words, sort of a scientific equivalent of an "in-universe" tag that could be used here??? Just a thought....Gladys J Cortez 18:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Gladys has this about right. The 'anti-fringe' folks seek to fight the fringe view itself on the article page, rather than simply report that the film is about a fringe view, and then discuss relevant issues, like out-of-context quote controversies, and critical response. They instead seek to expand reasonable anti-fringe NPOV policing, which is sorely needed in SOME PLACES, into a place where it is NOT needed. Links to 'intelligent Design' and 'Theory of Evolution' will provide more interested readers places to go to expand their understanding of both the science and the non-science, and the controversies and the nonsense. But to fight that war where instead we should be writing an article about a film and only what is germaine to that film, is a wrongheaded idea. ThuranX (talk) 20:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Concur with Gladys & ThuranX. Too much of the article (okay, of the version I looked at) is dedicated to refuting the movie; anyone who is informed about current American culture wars will know what to think from the first sentence (which states, in effect, educators are forbidden to teach Intelligent Design). I skipped several of the middle sections, & had all of my answers about the movie answered by reading from "Critical reaction" on. (FWIW, I've lost a lot of respect of Ben Stein after reading this article.) -- llywrch (talk) 20:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * See the movie, lose more. ThuranX (talk) 03:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No thanks. At this point I consider going to see this movie an exercise about as informative as repeatedly beating my hand with a hammer to see whether it will hurt: not only do I already know the answer, but doing this is wastefully painful. -- llywrch (talk) 06:46, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

While I fully accept that m'learned friends are well aware of the nonsense being peddled by this film, unfortunately a significant part of the population of the US, notably the school boards and legislators of Louisiana and Texas, believe all that the film tells them and aren't going to click on links to find out otherwise. NPOV rightly requires us to show all significant views on the subject, and while I'm confident that the article can be tightened by use of summary style, splitting it to make the mainstream view a POV fork is not on. .. dave souza, talk 11:40, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In a word, that's bullshit. We aren't the thought police. It is NOT Wikipedia's job to become an activist site for Science OR Religion. We are to create an article about a MOVIE, which happens to be about FRINGE material. The place to provide refutation to the FRINGE material is on the page about that FRING topic, not on the page about a movie. Material about criticism of the film and its apparent biases, as reported by WP:RS can be included, refutation of ID by WP:RS is NOT, because it is tangential to the FILM, at best. ID refutation goes in teh ID article, or a 'criticisms of ID' article. ThuranX (talk) 15:15, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If we confine the article to the film as a film, it's be a very short article about a badly made film panned by all film critics. However, as soon as we describe the claims made in the film, NPOV comes into play. . . dave souza, talk 11:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Bart Versieck
I've just blocked for a week for continued disruption by editing other peoples talk page edits. I knew there was some history to this but was just pointed to a previous discussion from last year which is over the same issue and shows numerous warnings and nearly as many promises not to do it again. Where to know? I'd like another opinion.

Clearly the behaviour is not super-serious, but I find it extremely annoying, especially when promises to reform have been given. &mdash;Moondyne click! 06:40, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I am concerned, it is a good block. The user's history and block log sufficiently support your actions. -JodyBtalk 06:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like a reasonable block to me. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 07:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was wondering if a longer term remedy was appropriate. &mdash;Moondyne click! 08:55, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a hard one to call; there is a lot of wiki-gnoming work (as a wiki-gnome myself I believe that it is a fairly constructive way of contributing) together with an apparent inability not to edit other peoples comments on talkpages. The editor seems to be an inveterate tinkerer. A quick look at the Interiot tool for the editor indicates sizable contributions to US Presidents, WW1 veterans and supercentararian articles (and a couple of other editors user pages). Suffice to say that if the editor was blocked long term then there is unlikely to be a huge hole in article space that wouldn't be covered by other editors. Perhaps there would be a net gain from a lack of disruption and reverting of inappropriate edits? I may be minded either to up the block to 3 months, which could then be reduced upon promise to reform back to the one week, or make it clear that the very next time they edit someone else's comment then it is a three month block. There is simply too much time and resource already spent on trying to get this editor to conform to a simple principle. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:41, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Possible vandalbot
I've just blocked 83.170.102.177 for 48 hours for obvious vandalism, but the rate of edits from this user (6 per minute) makes me suspect that this may be a vandalbot. Is this worth investigating further? —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 08:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * May wish to request checkuser, could be someone else who's logged out. It's not a tor node, and it comes from the UK. Of course, the first thing to do is what you did—block, although you might want to do it for longer just to be safe. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 08:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Or it's an open proxy, as the IP belongs to "UK's biggest host".— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 08:34, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's these guys...means nothing to me, but it might help someone else. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 08:36, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Well anyway someone is and has been doing stuff towards me for some time. Its slowly got worse each time. Started with my page bankings then messages then all of my pages got semiprotected and now i see that it has moved to other pages. Here is a list of all of the ip's that i have noticed / been told about. I hope this list might help in some way.  ·Add§hore·  <sup style="color:blue;">T alk /<sub style="color:blue;">C ont 08:58, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 67.207.143.74
 * 70.44.52.128
 * 76.76.3.70
 * 67.228.120.234
 * 82.195.136.187
 * 92.48.194.11
 * 64.214.185.197
 * 85.17.140.219
 * 83.170.102.177
 * 74.220.202.28
 * I've blocked half of these as confirmed open web proxies, some of the others are probably open proxies and it may be worth listing those and similar future vandals at WP:OP for checking. -- zzuuzz (talk) 13:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

A case for "oversight" to destroy an edit?

 * Page John Cabot's edit at 09:40, 19 April 2008 by User:Public fun days has an edit comment which contains an unpleasant allegation against User:Thingg. (User:Public fun days also inserted that text into page John Cabot, but it has since been reverted.) Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I see the edit has been deleted. If you want to request oversight, go to Requests for oversight (you have to do it via email). <b style="color:#FF0000;">Hut 8.5</b> 14:07, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Indef block of - review please
Regarding the block I have just placed; The modus operandi of the above editor is to add non-existent services from airlines to airports. I seem to remember that this was a trademark of another vandal, and wonder if someone familiar with that character could check over the contributions and confirm that this is either a sock or a clone. Thanks. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:27, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm nearly certain that User:S marky 90 originated as. From his picture uploads (often without proper copyright tags) it looks like he lives in Venice and editors/administrators have had difficulty communicating with him in English, and he might have difficulty understanding the rules, MoS and WikiProject guidelines. The IP added Venice as a destinations to many airports around the world (thus experiencing mass reverts, warnings and blocks) but as a registered user he had focused on Venice Airport (where there probably aren't enough knowledgeable editors monitoring the article or verifying its contents). HkCaGu (talk) 06:03, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Wait, this isn't shoot first and ask questions later. Don't indef block editors unless you actually know they're a sock. -- Ned Scott 06:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I indef'd as a disruptive vandal; continuing to add content that is not true and not responding to talkpage warnings/comments regarding same. However, I recalled that there was a similar vandal some time back and asked here if anyone familiar with that case could look over. If it is simple miscommunication then a unblock request should have AGF applied, whereas if it is a long term vandal then a sockpuppet template could be applied to the page to guide any block reviewer. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:08, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

The other one (Vitrox92 and many more socks) was a self-admitted teenager in Indonesia and focused on (beside adding destinations) creating hoaxes for "new" airports. His aviation contributions were almost all disruptive, while his creations of articles on local stadiums and attractions are more genuine. He still occasionally vandalizes aviation pages with 125.164.X.X dynamic IPs. I don't recall there was any specific person handling the case. I and several editors reported his socks, and different admins blocked them. There was a checkuser conducted though.

Meanwhile, S marky 90 seems to only have one other account (which had since merged/deleted) and a static IP. HkCaGu (talk) 18:13, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Spam or what?
I'm slightly puzzled by a recent email I got through my WP mail address. Because I had edited the The Firesign Theatre article, another WP editor dropped me a line with links to a Firesign Theatre newsletter and Yahoo group. On one hand, this seemed like a friendly gesture, offering me information about something I might be interested in based on my editing history. On the other hand, I edit lots of articles and really don't think this is a particularly helpful or desired kind of contact from an editor who is a stranger to me. It's not really commercial but it's also not really about WP business. I considered just shrugging it off, ignoring and forgetting about it but was wondering what other people think of this sort of thing. Thoughts? Pigman ☿ 05:14, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's friendly, targeted, informative spam. You might want to drop a note on the talk page of the editor who sent it (don't reveal a personal email address you care abou though). Gwen Gale (talk) 05:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's the price you pay for accepting emails on a website that anyone can access :) I've received some rather strange things on other forums and such, too, such as Buddhist quotes and some words of wisdom. The sender was not soliciting anything, so I didn't quite get what was going on. I still don't! Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  05:21, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the input from both of you. I really didn't think it was anything serious but just wanted to check other people's attitudes on it. I'm actually surprised I haven't gotten more spammish stuff through WP. All my mail through WP until now has been entirely about WP matters. Cheers, Pigman ☿ 05:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Spamming? From Firesign Theatre?  Who'd have thought it.  Astroturfing is more normal on that one. Guy (Help!) 17:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't know that although any performing group that inspires high fan devotion (Monty Python strikes me as another) would be prone to that kind of response. I'll try to be aware of it in the future. Thanks, Pigman ☿ 17:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As a devoted Firesign fan, could you forward the info to me, bozo? (Sorry for the non-AN/I-relevant request.) Raymond Arritt (talk) 18:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

User page needs to be protected
I think this talk page of a recently blocked user needs full protection for a while, for obvious reasons. I don't know if there is anything else that can be done. --Hans Adler (talk) 15:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I have reverted the threat and protected the page. Thanks. Woody (talk) 15:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

content falsifications
Vandalism on Central Europe (diff): The user purposefully falsified a map. Falsifying data and misusing the sources is one of the worst things one can do on Wikipedia (normal hoaxes and vandalisms are easier to track, and are often obvious to regular readers, too). This user is continuing an edit war, after a recent block, and also in a quite uncivilized manner to other editors (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ACentral_Europe&diff=206884292&oldid=206841276). I believe a warning about misusing the sources given by an admin, or some block, could perhaps make reason with the editor better than the consolation attempts already made by other editors. As the map alteration is a matter of "content dispute" (although it is quite obvious, easily verifiable, and even the reported editor himself often admitted it, when contesting the source), it does not qualify to fall under obvious vandalism, but some administrative action may cool down the heated heads. Pundit | utter 16:50, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Deletion, Original Research and Insults
In the user page of, there has been a dispute between him and me, due to the fact that he and User , have been reverting edits of mine, that are cited and referenced and replacing them with original research, as you can see from the history page of the article in question.

In his user page he has insulted me by using the phrase "Κατάρα στο λαδέμπορα", which literally translates to "Curse to the oil-merchant" the "oil-merchant" is in reference to the WWII black-marketer quislings, that collaborated with the Germans during the NAZI Occupation of Greece, and is in reference to their "dirty nature" who made people "dirty" as well by coming into contact with them, and hence "curse to oil-merchant" (ie. myself), because i made them "dirty" by forcing them to revert 4 times.

Besides, the fact that he has been reverting cited and referenced material, while replacing them with original research, he has also insulted me, and he keeps on deleting my responses from his user page as you can see in its history. The same administrator has banned me, for violating the tree-revert rule in regards to the Ancient Macedonian Language article.

Can someone please take appropriate action?

Kind Regards--Elampon (talk) 17:23, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This is a content dispute. You need dispute resolution, not the admin noticeboard. Guy (Help!) 17:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok thanks.--Elampon (talk) 17:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What we do need is for somebody to please block this person and his little friend for harassment and revert-warring on my user talk; see report on WP:AN3. Thanks, Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like they've both been blocked. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 17:45, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Always glad to be of service! Moreschi (talk) (debate) 17:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks guys, much appreciated. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Hkelkar strikes back
Sock. Special:Contributions/Blindmansbuff.  Otolemur crassicaudatus  (talk) 23:06, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Indef'd and templated. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Contextflexed - Outing threat
, an anonymous IP claiming to be Contextflexed, threatened to "out" the real identity of Irishguy. --GentlemanGhost (talk) 00:12, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Blocked for a month by Mr Z-man. <b style="color:#FF0000;">Hut 8.5</b> 08:52, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

User:john celona
This user had been discussed before, but he is attacking other editors, edit warring, and showing a great disrespect for WP policy. Please see this recent edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:American_criminals&diff=prev&oldid=206813313 - there is no justification for accusing me of a personal or political agenda. User Celona has done this over and over. Someone needs to stop this. Additionally, others have noticed that he is likely a sockpuppet of Rastishka: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:John_celona&diff=195596873&oldid=135135655 -- regardless of whether or not this can be proven conclusively, Celona's edits speak for themselves and they are out of control. --Jkp212 (talk) 03:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Notified him of this thread and I see that User:Rodhullandemu responded immediately afterwards to one of the comments. He seems to have stopped editing at this point.  -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The above user Jkp212 has just unilaterally deleted, without discussion, over 3 dozen articles from a category. Some have been up for years, disrupting the work of many individual editors. He may well be a sockpuppet of David in DC, even if this cannot be proven conclusively.  A look at their edit histories will confirm that where one is, the other usually follows. John celona (talk) 13:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I have been the subject of similar personal attacks by this editor. I hope Ricky is right.  But I fear he is not.  I agree with Jkp. This needs dealing with. David in DC (talk) 13:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I should add that, in a frenzied attempt to censor the prison sentence served by child molestor/one hit wonder pop star Peter Yarrow, suspected sock puppets David in DC and Jkp212 have repeatedly posted on this board trying to have me blocked and been shot down every time. They have posted to Jim Wales personal page to have me blocked and been shot down by 2 Administrators who reviewed my edits, found them well-sourced (they have been on the article over 3 years) and ruled they should STAY. John celona (talk) 14:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry Ricky I hoped you were right. But sad experience suggested otherwise. I posted at 13:56.  Response: 14:02.  Does the name Pavlov ring a bell John? David in DC (talk) 14:14, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The category page clearly states that "any subject that is notable in any way outside of their criminal activities is ineligible for inclusion in the category. [paraphrased and emphasis added]".


 * Most of the articles John added (and re-added) to the category around 12 hrs ago were musicians and/or members of prominent music groups. Thus, they are notable outside of their criminal activities, and are not eligible for inclusion.


 * Accusing someone of "unilaterally removing over 30 articles from a category with no discussion" is meaningless when the articles removed from the category are not eligible for inclusion in the first place.
 * It was not Jkp212 who "unilaterally removed" the articles with no discussion, it was John celona who unilaterally added articles to the category "with no prior discussion". It boggles my mind that John had the audacity to demonstrate such blatant hypocrisy in full view of the entire English-speaking world.


 * I will continue to remove any erroneous articles from the category. This does not fall under the 3RR because John is clearly violating the guidelines set out on Category:American criminals.


 * John's main defense for his edit-warring is "Many of the articles have been in there for years, and the subjects are notable outside of their criminal activities." Just because an article has erroneously been included in the category for "years" does not change the fact that it is erroneous. If a museum held what they thought was an Lincoln-written copy of the Gettysburg Address for 75 years and then the copy was proven to be forged, does John think that the museum would or should keep the fake?


 * If John will tell me specifically which articles in Category:American criminals are notable outside of their criminal activities and have been there for "years", I will be happy to remove them from the category.
 * Last night, (My local time is UTC-4) I reviewed all the articles listed in Category:American criminals from "A" through "C" and removed many ineligible inclusions, mainly politicians, from the list. Today, I got on and saw that almost all had been re-added by John, then removed by Jkp212, and then re-added by John. I will re-remove the articles that John has already added twice, and I will review the rest of the articles in the category to ensure that they belong there.


 * One final note: John's accusations of sockpuppeting are ludicrous at best. Any rational person looking at those two users' contribs would be utterly convinced that there is no way they could be sockpuppets. I would consider opening another thread to deal with that accusation, but that would be redundant. J.d ela noy <sup style="color:red;">gabs <sub style="color:blue;">adds  18:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure where to go from here. John is undoing all of the edits he can without violating 3RR. . In addition, he is attempting to canvass support from other users by accusing me of censoring. I am at a loss of how to deal with this. I could simply re-remove the categories from the articles, but then I could be accused of edit-warring. I just don't know what to do. J.d ela noy <sup style="color:red;">gabs <sub style="color:blue;">adds 19:53, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Right now, this is the subject of an RFC at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:American_criminals#What_should_be_the_threshold_for_inclusion_of_this_category.3 I have agreed not to add any names to the category while the RFC is in progress. Other users have posted on that talk page IN SUPPORT of allowing convicted criminals who are otherwise notable to appear in both categories, as they have for years.  Literally as we speak, while the RFC is pending, user J. delanoy has unilaterally deleted over 100 articles from the list.  Many of which were put on by editors years ago.  To do this mass purging while the very issue  subject is under an RFC is nothing short of vandalism. John celona (talk) 19:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope this was a mistake... J.d ela noy <sup style="color:red;">gabs <sub style="color:blue;">adds  20:01, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Instead of unilaterally deleting hundreds of different editors work while the subject is under an RFC why don't you engage on the discussion page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:American_criminals#What_should_be_the_threshold_for_inclusion_of_this_category.3?
 * As far as canvassing, do you mean this [] or this [] or this [] or this []? John celona (talk) 20:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You may look at the talk pages of either of the users who posted on my talk page, and you will see that I did not solicit their comments. Also, Jkp212 was not canvassing: he only contacted one user and asked them to help him out. Canvassing is when a user asks multiple disinterested users to review an argument, which is what you did. J.d ela noy <sup style="color:red;">gabs <sub style="color:blue;">adds  20:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was not accusing YOU of canvassing but of being canvassed . "Don't back down", etc. I did not canvass disinterested parties but those whose edits (in some cases years old) were unilaterally deleted without notice or engaging on those articles discussion pages. This whole subject is under a RFC. There is a pending compromise offer which would clarify and eliminate any claimed amiguity. John celona (talk) 20:43, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Formal Apology
I am putting this under a subheader to make it more visible.

I owe John celona a public apology for attacking him above, and for edit-warring. I have an opinion, and John has another, but that does not justify my attacks or edit wars.

John, I am sorry for attacking you, and I am sorry for edit warring. I will wait for the RFC to proceed before taking any further action with this category. J.d ela noy <sup style="color:red;">gabs <sub style="color:blue;">adds 20:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

User:12.227.159.219
This user refuses to respect consensus decisions in terms of chronology linking of the Star Wars movies and has repeatedly reverted corrections. This user has also issued personal attacks on the talk pages. Talk:Star_Wars_Episode_IV:_A_New_Hope. User is arguably attempting to WP:OWN the articles. Dp76764 (talk) 03:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * User is also violating 3RR. Definitely needs a block, please. Dp76764 (talk) 06:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Possible sockpuppet of User:A Raider Like Indiana Dp76764 (talk) 07:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Look like it is done, but WP:AIV would be much faster next time. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 21:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Inappropriate images
i believe that User:U.S.A./coolpics should be investigated because he has far too many pornographic pictures which i think do not have any real puprpose except to show pictures he likes looking at which shouldnt be put on wikipedia if they do not have a real purpose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thfrang (talk • contribs)
 * Just a small point: User:U.S.A. did not upload any of these pictures, as far as I can tell.  They were on wikipedia or the commons already.  He just linked to these pictures from his user space. That said, the relevant policy about material perceived to be offensive on this site is What Wikipedia is not. Darkspots (talk) 11:16, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I did removed some non-free content images. For the rest the list doesn't really bother me. Garion96 (talk) 11:20, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You pretty much have to go through each one to figure out what's fair use and what isn't, right? I randomly sampled a couple and found appropriate tags on the images, but I guess that's not sufficient. Darkspots (talk) 11:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah, just a quick glance. It was pretty obvious which was fair use and which was not. I might have missed some, but I think I got them all. Garion96 (talk) 12:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The shots appear to be professionally done but not by any pornographic magazine; for instance, many are either at public events or in a home studio. And in addition, they are available at the Commons. They are indeed acceptable to be used on the user page. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  18:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd say tell him not to use fairuse images, leave the page alone otherwise, and tell him to quit screwing around and do something useful for the encyclopedia. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 21:08, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Requesting outside opinion
Could anybody check Special:Contributions/Ewenss for contributions to Jeremiah Wright sermon controversy and Trinity United Church of Christ, Chicago? The user insists on making incredibly-POV edits to these articles, and reverts others when trying to correct him. Thanks,  Grsz  11  18:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree that there is a POV problem - this and this being the most recent (I didn't look back too far, I admit). Weasel words, etc. <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">Tan  |  <font color="#21421E" face="Papyrus">39  19:01, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Tastes like spam -- sanity check
has taken it upon him- or herself to add external links to a plethora of articles related to coffee, mainly showing videos of machines making the sorts of coffee the articles reference. However, all the videos are part of the advertising for cafeserv.co.uk, a company the sells commercial coffee-making machines. Some of the links added are somewhat germane to the articles in question, but the overall pattern is really spammy, especially considering edits like this. I didn't get much sleep at all last night, and so I'd like a second-opinion sanity check before I start reverting all these additions wholesale. <font color="#285991">--Dynaflow  <font color="#285991">babble  19:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * A little out of context :) A good sleep is always required. Please do not get perturbed - things get settled here for sure. --Bhadani (talk) 19:34, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I request for comments - not on the "sleep" but on the issue raised by Dynaflow. Thanks in advance. --Bhadani (talk) 19:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Such links are generally to be avoided per WP:ELNO #5. As I don't get the impression that the information they add is overwhelming useful, showing how coffee is made, I'd revert them myself. John Carter (talk) 19:40, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. Tally ho!  <font color="#285991">--Dynaflow   <font color="#285991">babble  19:53, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Looks like linkspamming to me. Gwen Gale (talk) 20:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Vandalhammer
vandalism on "Hammer" article.

IP address of source: 75.53.115.176

AeturnalNarcosis (talk) 20:04, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * One edit is not enough.   Use the warning templates and list at WP:AIV if there is enough vandalism.  That will be much faster. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:09, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I've warned the user. If it happens again, then warn again, and if more, then report to WP:AIV. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  20:12, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

AfD sockpuppetry
Dear administrators, I filed a checkuser on a suspicious account (see Requests for checkuser/Case/Divinediscourse) and Thatcher has confirmed that the following two accounts are the same editor and that they have double voted in AfDs:



Please see this link for the 16 AfDs in which they have supported each other in a sockpuppet fashion. Please also take note of these accounts' incredibly rapid practically copy and paste "votes" in scores of AfDs. Sincerely, --<font face="Times New Roman"> Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 21:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Both blocked now. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:09, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Vince the Vandal
Copying this from Wikipedia talk:Administrator intervention against vandalism:
 * There is a spate of vandalism at present from several IPs, adding comments about vince the vandal. As it's obviously the same user, I'm blocking on sight rather than giving warnings. Keep an eye on today's featured article, talk:main page etc as this is wehre he seems to be concentrating. —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 21:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Another admin there has suggested an IP range block, if a range can be determined. I think this is a better, broader venue for this issue, hence I'm moving the report here. —C.Fred (talk) 22:07, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * So far I've caught, , , —   Tivedshambo  (t/c) 22:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Just a note, I'm not an admin (as was thought, I suggested a range block). It would probably be more effective in this case. I'll try determining the range. <font face="Lucida Calligraphy" color="red">Steve Crossin (talk) (anon talk) 22:20, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * A range block is probably a good idea if the vandalism is still continuing, bu could I ask someone more experienced to do it, as I haven't looked at how to do these yet, and I'm going off line soon. —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 22:23, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Checked the IP's, they're IP's from Hutchison 3G UK Limited. Seems the edits are being made from a cellphone. I'd recommend maybe a 24 hour softblock might be effective here. Anon Only, account creation block. The range I got from the WhoIS data is 92.40.0.0/15, and 217.171.128.0/20. WHOIS info is here and here. Just my thoughts here. <font face="Lucida Calligraphy" color="red">Steve Crossin (talk) (anon talk) 22:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Should this be oversighted?
See this. It appears to be fairly serious accusations against a person with no citations. Should it be made to vanish? Loren.wilton (talk) 22:24, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Deletion is sufficient, I think. And ✅ Thatcher 22:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd want it oversighted if it was about me. WP:OS  Dan Beale-Cocks  22:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

user:hopiakuta
Anyone know what's going on at User:Hopiakuta, with sub-pages like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hopiakuta/_%C2%A1%C2%BF_doppelg%C3%A4nger_:_Please_do_not_delete_this_evidence_of_wikipedia_racism%2C_wikiracism%2C_w%C3%A6klyp%C3%A6dia._Thank_You. this] and what looks like vandalism edits in the contribs? . Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  02:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Leave it be - This has been discussed to death, and it has been brought up that hopiakuta uses accessibility software and/or has some mental health issues. Please see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/User:hopiakuta. -<font color="32CD32">Jéské <font color="4682B4">(v^_^v Karistaa Usko) 02:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't the numerous redirect pages, which don't begin or end anywhere, that this unstable editor has created be deleted? MarnetteD | Talk 02:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I brought up a sore point - I'd never come across this stuff before, or the previous report. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  02:50, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait - the link you sent me to is more random stuff, not a previous discussion. It's been redirected to a nonsense page, and the history of the redirect page says something about the user not wanting to be treated like a screen name? I'm sorry if this is the result of someone with problems, but it seems to me that the result is indistinguishable from vandalism and should be undone, and the user blocked.  Why hasn't this been considered?  This is a project to build an encyclopedia, in what way are these things any more helpful to that than cabals and secret pages? Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  02:55, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Because in amongst the communications issues, he's actually a highly intelligent, useful and productive editor. He sees things that the rest of us miss and it's not his fault that we have difficulty interpreting his mode of communication. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 03:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * See Administrators%27_noticeboard where I just raised the issue. The way, the truth, and the light (talk) 03:01, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I just found that thread, and I am no more enlightened now than I was then. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  03:03, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Because there is a difference between "unable to always understand his edits" and "clear vandalism." The goal is to make any encyclopedia that anyone can use and excluding the slight oddness, what is wrong with this edit, for example? As I said before, given his length and number of edits, there's only been a few questions about him and little actual drama, so I'd say he's better than a lot of editors here. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 03:40, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There's nothing wrong with that edit, of course, just as there is nothing wrong with the non-disruptive edits of a sometimes disruptive editor. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  03:45, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This editor is blind, among other things, and uses special software to browse Wikipedia. We should be encouraging him to contribute more rather than alienating him because of his disabilities. By the way, that's not a "nonsense page," DonFphrnqTaub Persina is Hopiakuta's real name; it's been archived because Hopiakuta has difficulty loading large pages and can be found here. <small style="background:#fff;border:#008080 1px solid;color:#000;padding:0px 3px 1px 4px;white-space:nowrap">east<big style="color:#090">. 718 at 04:09, April 20, 2008


 * I think this enigmatic user was first discussed on ANI in September 2007. The original discussion was moved to his talk page, see here: User talk:Hopiakuta. Cheers, Face 13:41, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In addition, this user uses a rather old browser some of the time, which leads to additional formatting problems and occasional page truncations. Brilliantine (talk) 23:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

myofascial DonFphrnqTaub Persina hopiakuta

 * DonFphrnqTaub Persina


 * hopiakuta

hopiakuta Please do   sign  your  communiqu%c3%a9 .%7e%7eThank You, DonFphrnqTaub Persina. 21:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

hopiakuta Please do   sign  your  communiqu%c3%a9 .%7e%7eThank You, DonFphrnqTaub Persina. 21:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Possible reincarnation of indef blocked user


A comment on Talk:Child sexual abuse by a new user caught my attention tonight:

It was followed by a strange note on a subpage of WikiProject Pedophilia Article Watch:

That seemed like something that should be reported here so it can be checked out by someone who knows more than I do. Thanks... --Jack-A-Roe (talk) 04:41, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not able to find the checkuser case for Farenhorst that got him banned. So far I found Requests for checkuser/Case/Happy Camper II and Requests for checkuser/Case/82.45.15.121. -- Ned Scott 06:16, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Nevermind, seems there wasn't a request page, User talk:WJBscribe/Archive 10. -- Ned Scott 06:20, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Whether or not FarenhorstO is a sock or not his name is far too close tot hat of another user and he should be indef blocked and requested to choose another name if he isn't a blocked user and if he is he should be asked to find another hobby. He either is Farenhorst or he is trying to stalk Farenhorst, either way he should not be allowed to edit under this user name . Thanks, SqueakBox01:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Racism on userpage?
I'm not sure if this is the right place for it. But is this appropriate for a userpage? xenocidic (talk) 17:05, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No. -- <font face="verdana" color="hotpink">Naerii 17:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * IMHO, user Pages are also part of the Project and should conform to all the policies. Accordingly, such racial remarks should be removed from the user pages. --Bhadani (talk) 17:11, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Removed and warning left. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 17:12, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. xenocidic (talk) 17:16, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That user has a rather odd history, actually - mostly they revert vandalism, but occasionally there's an edit that actually adds it, and there's at least one other instance of a potentially racist comment. I've left another note letting the user know that they will be blocked if it continues. <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:blue">Hers <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:gold">fold  (t/a/c) 17:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I noticed that as well. Strange. xenocidic (talk) 17:21, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This editor is sporadic to say the least, and seems to be of school age. I wonder if we have a compromised account here, and should it be blocked accordingly? --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 17:23, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If the account was indeed compromised, then after someone warns the user, they would respond back in a puzzled manner. If that hasn't happened, then I think the more likely explanation is that the user thinks that they have a free pass to vandalize if they themselves remove some every once in a while. I've come across vandals like that before, so it would not be a surprise to find that as the reason to this user's behavior. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  18:53, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the editor hasn't edited since the warning was placed so may not have seen it. I have it watchlisted, so will see what happens. It is somewhat worrying that the racist comment was on the user page since July 2007 without being spotted, however. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 18:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It probably just means that few people visit their user page? It doesn't seem like the user is a very prolific editor. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  19:41, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * A little sad that the page has had 73 hits this year before anyone has complained. Oh well. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 01:52, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Possible AfD sockpuppetry
I would appreciate if the administrators could determine if User:Procession is a sockpuppet. This user abruptly turned up in the middle of this debate[] and helped to give the vote for keeping the article a very slender majority. The user is also new to Wikipedia, so his/her appearance at this time seems more than a little coincidental. If this is the case, would the vote be voided due to fraud? Thank you. Ecoleetage (talk) 22:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I am not an admin, however AfD is not a vote. The closing admin weighs the arguments, if it appears that one side "won" due to votes, it is simply coincidence that the majority side was also the most persuasive in their arguments. You can request a check at WP:RFCU, however you have to know who you want them compared to I believe. --I Write Stuff (talk) 23:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Discrimination
Look here "there is no comparison in the degree of support terrorists receive from the Muslim majority; it is not supported by "minority cults of extremist Muslims".  the editor is saying that most Muslims support terrorism. Clearly racism. I was suggesting only that because Islam has a mention of Islamic terrorism so should Christianity have a mention of Christian terrorism or Pro Life terrorism. It was just a passing suggestion and the editor said this about Muslims. see talk:Christianity sub heading comparisons with the Islam article --77.98.178.218 (talk) 22:24, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It look like this falls under WP:FRINGE.  Grsz  11  22:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't understand. Please elaborate --77.98.178.218 (talk) 22:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Reading the comment in context, it doesn't seem that the editor was saying, "Most Muslims support terrorism," but something more like, "Terrorism is significantly associated with, and written about, with regard to terrorist acts committed by Muslims, and thus a section in that article is useful. Terrorism by Christians is less common, carried out by people who are widely understood to be a fringe group, and the way it is written about is so fundamentally different that a comparison between the two is not useful."  It's easy to see how someone might disagree with that, but I'm not sure that it's an inherently racist opinion.   (Incidentally, Islam isn't a race, but a religion practiced by people of every race). -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, it's an exaggeration to say the terrorism is significant in the Islam article, as the word "terrorism" is only used a single time.  Grsz  11  22:37, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the opinion. I sometimes find it offensive that people ignore the Pro life terrorism. Someone I know was injured in an action they committed in the eighties, this is why I am upset about the subject. Islam being not a race - true but in law racism does extend to religion (at least in the UK, where I now live). --77.98.178.218 (talk) 22:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually the UK law against racism doesn't extend to Islam, or any other religion for that matter (religions obviously are not equivalent to races). The only religion specifically protected under the law is, rather unfairly, Christianity (see Blasphemy law in the United Kingdom). You might be thinking of the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, though that only criminalises efforts to incite hatred against a person on the grounds of their religion. -- ChrisO (talk) 22:45, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The any racism stuff is generaly thought to protect sikhs and jews.Geni 00:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Why so angry?
Can someone tell me why is User:Shalimer exhibiting such annoyance and anger at and  without any provocation over what was a legitimate demand abiding by all WP policies? DrAjitParkash (talk) 22:53, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's worth reporting, yet. I suggest you talk this over with the user before reporting it to here, if and when it becomes more serious. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  22:58, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, politely approach him and remind to please WP:AGF about allegations of sockpuppetry. Also, I suggest taking your changes to the talk page of the article itself - that always makes for good and smooth inclusions. <font color="#660000">Wisdom89  ( <font color="#17001E">T |undefined /  <font color="#17001E">C ) 01:04, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Legal threat from a non-profit organization in the UK
This just came in my e-mail. The blocked spammer was User:Pixaerial (also a role account, you will note). Emphasis added I'm very concerned at the negative attention my block is receiving on Wikipedia, as it is still appearing as a spam report under google searches.

It is clearly self-evident, as a government-sponsored organisation, that we are not spammers and were merely raising awareness of this project, which has been part paid for through public taxation. The intention is to get people using and enjoying the site, not to make money. All articles we chose to place our link within were places covered by our project.

I accept the need for rules, but I think there is need for more caution before deciding an event that happens more than once is automatically 'spam'. Now, I have completely dismissed Wikipedia as anything other than a body of information governed by largely unaccountable 'editors' who seem to have an over-representation in the US. There is also a question of the negative, possibly libellous attention our organisation is receiving, and we may well need to appoint a lawyer to address this issue unless some form of reasonable action can be reached.

I would be grateful for your response.

John Rowlands Project Director, Pixaerial.co.uk

-- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  17:59, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * it's not an non-profit, it's a commercial organisation which has been contracted to take some photos by various public bodies (also goes under the name Fotonix Photography). I see nothing of concern. The legal threat is without merit and would be dismissed as such. if they send another email, pass it over to the foundation. --87.112.39.93 (talk) 18:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This may be related to WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/pixaerial.co.uk. See the prior ANI posting about this: Administrators' noticeboard/Archive139 --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:18, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Send them details for contacting the office, for sending lawyer stuff to. This does raise another problem - people with bad usernames get very short templates that don't do much to explain WP policies.  If you want you could point them to relevant policies, and explain why role accounts aren't allowed, and why COI is bad, and why WP isn't somewhere for people to dump links to their companies.   Dan Beale-Cocks  19:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "...an over-representation in the US"? Would that be the US where the servers are located, from where the founder lives and works, in which the administration offices reside, and in which over half the English speaking peoples of the world live? Strange that... LessHeard vanU (talk) 19:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not if you include non-native speakers, I think. I don't believe that Wikipedia (or even the English Wikipedia) is aimed only at native English speakers. Bovlb (talk) 06:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I have seen a number of these as well, and I have proposed that we retitle them as "link issue" reports or some such because of it. A lot of these are not actually spamming in the sense of links added by the company, they may be victims of a joe job or obsessive fan.  Guy (Help!) 19:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The discussion towards renaming either the WP:WPSPAM project, or at least renaming the associated bot-generated reports seemed to have some support; but the discussion seems to have stalled out with no changes successfully made. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This again, I emailed the Welsh Assembly Government about this a week ago. Never got a reply. Just for Kicks I will do it again. <span style="font-family:Papyrus, sans-serif; color:#775ca8;">Rgoodermote  01:07, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Done, I just do not believe this is a government run site. Well we should find out if they bother to read their email. <span style="font-family:Papyrus, sans-serif; color:#775ca8;">Rgoodermote  01:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * http://spam.pixaerial.co.uk
 * Accounts
 * Accounts

Registrant type: UK Individual. http://whois.domaintools.com/pixaerial.co.uk the "Registrant" is one of the photographers, John Rowlands is the other. Another case of self-promotional use of Wikipedia by individuals spamming their personal photography site. Wikipedia is NOT a "vehicle for advertising". I'll delete the link report (which for the record was Vandalized by Pixaerial.--Hu12 (talk) 09:21, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

New (banned) Vintagekits sock
User:German.Knowitall. - Kittybrewster <font color="0000FF">&#9742;  11:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This editor has been editing since Dec 12 2006 so maybe not a sock.BigDunc (talk) 11:42, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Also judging by this seems a bit rich to be throwing around accusations. BigDunc (talk) 11:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh dear, it looks like the champagne will have to stay in the bottle . Giano (talk) 11:48, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Vintagekits, Vintagekits, there's no on like our Vintagekits, 
 * He's broken every human law, he breaks the laws on wiki-blitz. 
 * His powers of levitation would make a fakir stare, 
 * And when you reach the scene of crime--Vintagekits not there! 
 * You may seek him in the basement, you may look up in the air-- 
 * But I tell you once and once again, Vintagekits not there! 
 * Give this man a barnstar :D Sceptre (talk) 12:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That really is the funiest thing I have seen on Wiki for ages. Giano (talk) 12:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Kittybrewster shouldn't make false accusations of sockpuppetry without even a shred of evidence!--Domer48 (talk) 12:37, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The evidence lies in the contributions. The probability is there and is not disproven by the date of commencement. But I don't have checkuser powers which would provide proof (or not). And yes, Vk, Giano and ONIH have all earned the Lazarus barnstar. - Kittybrewster <font color="0000FF">&#9742;  12:43, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If that's Vintagekits, he's certainly being very cunning in creating a new persona that, whilst fluent, clearly doesn't have English as a first language - "is a Hungarian amateur boxer best known to win two Bronze medals", "2006 he was successful at the Euros", the use of contractions ("didn't"), grammar ("title’s") - etc. Plus, creating the account nearly 18 months ago certainly shows marvellous forethought.  So, er, I'm sorry, I hear no quacking. <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 13:34, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * For the record, User:German.Knowitall is ❌ to User:Vintagekits - A l is o n  ❤ 05:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Note that Vintagekits (via a sock) has previously offered to email German.Knowitall the contents of several articles created (and deleted) after his ban took effect, so some scrutiny might be warranted here. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 05:41, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Personal attacks
I have been absent from the site for the last eight days owing to the demands of personal business and I have returned to find that a person, whom I believe to be using possibly three separate userids, is carrying on a campaign of attacks against me. The userids in question are User:Fieldgoalunit, User:Mountlaurel and possibly User:Fiddler Einar of Saipan. I cannot be certain about the last one, who has made two very curious contributions. It is a little disturbing that this person seems to think he knows me in real life as I would like to preserve my privacy when using this site.

The problem has arisen because I objected to the quality of Golden Age of cricket which went to AfD and was kept after it was substantially improved and I withdrew the nomination. It may be that I was over-critical in a couple of comments I made about the quality of the article and I apologise if that has caused all this bother, but I stand by my view that drastic action was necessary to make that article compliant with site standards. The fact that I sought to improve a poor article does not merit the abuse that I am now receiving.

Please see my talk page and the contributions record of the userids named above. Thank you. --JamesJJames (talk) 13:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Could you provide diffs for the alleged attacks, as I have been reviewing one editor without seeing anything (yet) and am not keen to do the same with the others. FWIIW, the contribs of the editor I reviewed so seemed legit generally. Details will therefore be helpful. LessHeard vanU (talk) 14:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If you look at this talk page you will see that a ban has already been imposed on this person. No sooner has it expired than he is back on my talk page with the sarcastic nonsense about Allan Watkins as he evidently believes that I am the author of a book about Mr Watkins (I am not, but I know who is).  You need to read all the recent contributions to see what he is about, including his messages to Moondyne and Keeper.  --JamesJJames (talk) 15:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I am going to let someone else deal with this, since I am not disposed to reviewing various contributors histories to find examples of policy violations. I note that the editor linked above was possibly sarcastic regarding a source - but possibly only if it were addressed to the books author, which you have said you are not. I also note that there has been a prior notice to ANI about your alleged policy violations... I think a fresh pair of eyes would likely result in a better response. Sorry. LessHeard vanU (talk) 15:20, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

What a waste of time. --JamesJJames (talk) 17:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, there's three accounts.
 * One of those accounts has three edits. Another has two. There may be some assumption of bad faith in their edits, but nothing blockable from my point of view.
 * The main account,, previously but changed when they forgot their password, has a combined total of about 150 edits including several to the page in question. On 16 April they were blocked for an outing offence, given a stiff warning for it, eventually unblocked after 48 hours and have not resumed offending.
 * While I'm personally suspicious one or both of the other accounts may well be sockpuppets of the third, there's no action we can actually take without some evidence that there is something we need to prevent, rather than on the basis of a previous incident which has already been dealt with 4 days ago. (See this thread at AN for the preceding episode.) Orderinchaos 18:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * As I have mentioned on User talk:Orderinchaos the post by on 19 April is another outing attempt made after his ban expired. I take the point about evidence of WP:SOCK but, in this context, it has been suggested to me that I should refer you to the WP career of User:Richard Daft who was banned by Orderinchaos some months ago for confronting another WP member, again about the subject of cricket.  --JamesJJames (talk) 06:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Biff714 editing of Sandra Lee (cook)

 * is a WP:SPA that regularly violates WP:BLP in his edits to:
 * Biff714 has been repeatedly warned yet continues. A recent BLPN request has not resulted in any response yet. --Ronz (talk) 17:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Biff714 has been repeatedly warned yet continues. A recent BLPN request has not resulted in any response yet. --Ronz (talk) 17:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest leaving BLPN to handle it - there's no need to double-post things. <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:blue">Hers <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:gold">fold  (t/a/c) 17:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Note that I waited two days after posting to BLPN before posting here. I'm asking for help with Biff714, who continues his blockable editing behavior. --Ronz (talk) 03:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Turemetalfan / 98.224.211.86
The above user has been blocked indefinitely from editing on wikipedia but is still evading the block through the use of that ip address. He is making edits on the Epica page and I'm not going to revert his edits a third time in a row. He has also left an abusive comment towards me on both the talk page of that article as well as on my article. --Bardin (talk) 02:59, 21 April 2008 (UTC) --Bardin (talk) 03:08, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This is the indefinite block noting the user of the sock puppet 98.224.211.86.
 * This is the third edit in a row on the Epica page removing sourced information referenced by reliable sources (in the main body of the text).
 * This is the abusive comment left on my talk page.

Giano II
Moved to subpage at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Giano II. Signed w/o timestamp to prevent archiving. Max S em(Han shot first!)


 * Timestamp. -- <font face="verdana" color="hotpink">Naerii 09:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Homeopathy
, an SPA (Arsenicum album, Dana Ullman arbcom case, Homeopathy) stopped editing for a month after being topic-banned for a week. The user has returned and is now arguing vehemently for inclusion of a paragraph comparing homeopathy to religion and magic. The paragraph seems to be mainly a coatrack for references that are inflammatory in creative ways. This was the user's next edit after I suggested that the regular editors should treat him as a troll and stop feeding him. Does this fit a known pattern?

Someone should have a look at Talk:Homeopathy and do whatever needs doing before the situation escalates. --Hans Adler (talk) 20:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * p.s. Hans, I've just noticed that for some reason you highlighted a comment I made in connection with an edit I made to the Pinkerton Detective Agency page. I'm afraid the inference you are trying to draw from this is completely lost on me. If you must know, I was watching a rather poor 1950's film on television in which the Sundance Kid featured. That led me to look him up at Wikipedia and that led to the Pinkerton page, where I found an infelicitous sentence that I chose to correct, but seemingly failed to sign properly. Now I have confessed my daytime TV viewing habits are you happy? OffTheFence (talk) 22:01, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I confess I felt that it looked a bit like an elegant answer to the problem: "Oh dear, my sockpuppet was found out earlier than I thought, and it hasn't even made a single non-homeopathy edit yet. What can I do?" But I suppose this idea is about as far-fetched as the idea that someone should have intentionally concocted a poisonous brew of references to two papers by Peter Morrell that he doesn't believe in any more, a 1922 book that calls voodoo practices "homoeopathic", paper by a homeopath who later developed his own version of quantum theory, and the Skeptical Inquirer, and then fail to understand that it is offensive. Since trolls live under bridges and have neither the necessary intelligence for such actions nor access to non-free medical journals, I am well satisfied that you are not a troll and apologise for any inconvenience caused by my opening this thread. --Hans Adler (talk) 22:42, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Mad kudos to the first person willing to wade into this one ;-) <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">Tan  |  <font color="#21421E" face="Papyrus">39  20:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * , an SPA (Arsenicum album, Dana Ullman arbcom case, Homeopathy) has a life but decided to return to Wikipedia and try to make some small changes to the Homeopathy article to place its philosophy in a more accurate context. This seems not to have gone down well with the pro-homeopathy editors at that page. But, I'm a big boy and am happy to defend my proposal by reference to appropriate citations even if others choose not to do the same. I will not cry to Mummy if other editors don't like my proposals. I do note that Hans makes snide reference to my account being "SPA". Homeopathy happens to be something I am interested in and given that life presents me with limited time for editing at Wikipedia, I choose to spend it on pages related to homeopathy. Whether that is good or bad is surely more a matter for my spouse than Mr Adler. OffTheFence (talk) 21:34, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Now that should get an admin's attention. <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">Tan  |  <font color="#21421E" face="Papyrus">39  21:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I think... OffTheFence (talk) 21:55, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Proclaiming himself an "expert" in homeopathy certainly says a lot about him. Arion 3x3 (talk) 02:00, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As I noted on the homeopathy talk page, the ironic intent of the inverted commas has clearly passed you by. Irony is never an easy nuance to convey via a simple text editor. OffTheFence (talk) 06:54, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Repeated NPOV tagging of article by User:Jglogau

 * has repeatedly NPOV-pushed tags on article: US SEC Boiler Room Prosecutions despite consensus that the article is neutral and well-referenced (SEC Bulletins). He has been warned by several members, yet continues to post NPOV and other tags against the article. His own contributions to Wikipedia have been labeled 'promotional' CorraTech and he himself has been tagged as potentially being in a conflict of interest.

Chopped Lamb (talk) 23:01, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Content dispute. &rArr; <font face="Euclid Fraktur"> SWAT  Jester    Son of the Defender  04:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Total content dispute. I'm doing my best to fix up the article, but have absolutely no idea what the content is about, to be honest. And doubt is starting to creep into my mind about whether this even needs an article here. More eyes on it wouldn't hurt. <span style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;">&mdash;αlεx•mullεr 09:37, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Improper page moves by Husond
User:Husond has once again started engaging in improper, undiscussed page moves, moving Mihai Suba to Mihai Şuba in this edit. He tries to justify it by attacking me and my motives in moving it to align page name with the cited sources, rather than addressing the issues involved.

The Mihai Suba spelling is not only the one in the cited reference here; is is also the spelling in both external links in the article and in the book he wrote with the ISBN 0-08-037141-8 citation in the article. It is quite reasonable to think that these spellings are accurate and correct spellings, the way this British resident for the past 20 years or so (since before he wrote his book, the main reason why he is notable) in generally known in English.

Husond's move is an improper, unreferenced move of this article to a name not supported by the cited sources. Furthermore, it is contrary to the spelling of his name as the author of his book mentioned in the text. That the move Husond made was undiscussed is especially improper and inappropriate given that there already was a talk page discussion before his move. His move was clearly much more inappropriate than the original creation of the page under an unreferenced spelling contrary to that of the sources by User:Krakatoa, who—unlike Husond—hadn't then had it specifically pointed out to him/her that the spelling was contrary to that in all the sources.

Note further that even if he can and does find some sources supporting the spelling in the move he made, that would be sufficient to list the alternative spelling in the article. It is not by any means determinative of the spelling of this English resident's name in the article's name under naming conventions. But so far, we have absolutely no evidence from any reliable source, nor even from any unreliable source, that the "Mihai Şuba" spelling has ever been correct at any time in any language whatsoever.

Note in particular that Husond did not change my correction of my spelling of the name of the author of Dynamic Chess Strategy from "Şuba" to "Suba", the name of the author as it appears in that English-language book he wrote. He knows better than to deliberately change that to a spelling different from that used in the book itself (LCCC listing, which is reachable by following the ISBN link already cited in article and clicking on the appropriate "find this book" link), yet he thinks it is okay to improperly move the article containing it contrary to Wikipedia's naming conventions, without even discussing the points which had already been made on the talk page. Gene Nygaard (talk) 14:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This is a content dispute and you are discussing many issues of the content dispute here. Please spend more time looking for resolution on the article talk page or the user's talk page. You are far away from needing to bring this issue to A/NI. Husond should engage in a talk page discussion over the correct name of the page. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 14:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * As an outside view, I noticed Gene that you made no attempt (at least that I can see) to resolve this name dispute with Husond. This feels like tattling.  Do you have some sort of history with this particular editor to bring you to AN/I so quickly.  This seems like a simple dispute that could be fixed on article talk, user talk, even WP:RM.  Why the AN/I drama?  This isn't traditionally a first stop.  <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper   |  <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76   |  <font color="#ff0000"> Disclaimer  14:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The valid core of this complaint is that Husond should have brought the move to WP:RM. He knows, better than most, that all diacritical moves are likely to be controversial. Instead, he argued in the edit summaries. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Husond has been notified of this thread. Rudget  15:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Husond revert a prior move that wasn't brought to WP:RM? He has the page named the same way the original author had it. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 15:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I would gladly welcome such a rule, Gwynand. Will you stand behind me, supporting a carte blanche right to revert badly made moves?  There are thousands of them on Wikipedia now; somebody needs to address that issue.  And if everyone can agree that reverting the first move is always okay, it will be much more easily fixed.  Gene Nygaard (talk) 10:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And contrary to the spelling of the sources (see the links in the article). Husond disagrees with WP:UE, and has every right to campaign for his minority view; but the way to do so is to discuss and poll to see whether he has gathered support, not by move warring. Gene at least discussed his move on the talk page; Husond did nothing. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I would not regard this (as it stands) as warranting sanctions, in either direction; but is this not a reasonable place to ask for a third opinion? It may require adminship to act on a move war. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, this isn't the place. (Read the header). It's a dispute.  We have Dispute resolution.  We have third opinions.  But before those even get going, we have talk pages.  Nobody even went to Husond's talkpage.  Calling the article talk page a "discussion" is rather laughable.  It's a one liner by Gene Nygaard "telling it like it is".  That's not a discussion, that's an order.  I wouldn't have replied to that either. This thread should be closed.  Husond and Gene are disagreeing on something, outsight eyes need to be on it, I agree, before it gets ridiculous over something rather ridiculous.  <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper   |  <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76   |  <font color="#ff0000"> Disclaimer  15:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This would be ludicrous if not for the aggressive nature of Gene Nygaard's reaction that I unfortunately am so well used to. I'll try to make this brief. First, Gene strangely failed to mention that right after I reverted his move, I reminded him on his talk page that he is under community probation and may not move articles in order to remove diacritics without going through WP:RM first. Second, Gene seized the opportunity to move this article under the grounds that the only source refers to this person without the diacritic. Any search on Google with most adequate regard for Romanian sources will clearly show that this Romanian citizen's name is clearly and naturally written with a diacritic and that all the other sources are lacking this diacritic simply because most non-Romanian keyboards don't have it. But this, in case someone forgot, is an encyclopedia and accuracy is imperative. English speakers who know how "Ş" is pronounced don't have to be mislead into reading the name wrong simply because most English speakers don't know how to read it. Those will likely read it as "S" anyway, while the ones aware of the correct pronunciation would read "SH". In my view it is thus logical that in an encyclopedia readers be provided with an accurate and clear presentation of the subject, starting with its correct pronunciation. Gene Nygaard and Septentrionalis think otherwise, they defend that everyone has the right to be dumb, stay dumb, and make everyone else dumb. But that's not for here. I am surprised that Gene brought this issue here without contacting me or User:Krakatoa, the creator of the article. But I see that Gene has just declared on his talk page that the probation does not exist, which is false: Community sanction/Log is marked as inactive but as one can clearly read there, his probation is still active (and for good reasons). Gene has once again moved the article, which I will revert once again and block Gene Nygaard per his probation if he attempts to move the article once more without going to WP:RM.  Hús  ö  nd  18:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This would be ludicrous if not for the aggressive nature of Gene Nygaard's reaction that I unfortunately am so well used to ...
 * Husond, please stop the mud slinging. Gene tried to discuss this twice - on the article talk page and on his user page - and your reply was to threaten blocking. Enough already, quit stirring up trouble. --Duk 19:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting support.svg Move protected for one week. Tiptoety  talk 19:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (i) Husond is an admin, and party to what is apparently a two person dispute where one user is an admin and one is not and (ii) I'm not sure that protection is necessary, particularly if Gene Nygaard ends up blocked for edit warring and violating a community probation. Also, Husond, it would be a bad idea for you to block Gene yourself. <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000">Avruch <strong style="color:#000;background:#fff;border:0px solid #000"> T 19:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I've requested protection because a user who often teams with Gene Nygaard joined in and moved the article again. Didn't want this to go on forever. As for blocking Gene Nygaard, I understand your concern but I don't view this as a situation where I'd be using the block tool to have advantage over a dispute. Gene's probation is very clear and whenever I monitor his recent contributions I always find violations. He has been warned many times and I could've blocked him right away for persistent violations. And perhaps I should have, because I'm always lenient and explain to him over and over what he is not supposed to do, but then he always attacks me and this time came up with this unnecessary thread. The fact that Gene and I have a long history of disagreements does not mean that I may not enforce a clear community probation when it is blatantly violated. Hús  ö  nd  19:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment If a clear community probation is blatantly violated then there is likely to be another uninvolved admin willing to block, so to avoid the inevitable filing of a complaint why don't you let that happen? Indeed, if you are insistent on performing the block it may become the view of some that you appear more willing to act on matters where you have some interest than with keeping as much drama out of Wikipedia as possilbe. It may even be considered that acting in such a manner is disruptive. If there is a blatant violation of community probation then why not contact me and request me - or any other uninvolved admin - to perform the block (once satisfied)? LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, Husond. I wouldn't recommend you blocking GN, regardless of the probation.  Even though you may "technically" be within your rights to do as much, the perception of admin abuse, and inevitable drama to follow, would not be in anybody's best interests.  I recommend letting the community handle any potential blocks (and at this point, I don't believe any blocks or other sanctions are warranted).  Cheers,  <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper   |  <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76   |  <font color="#ff0000"> Disclaimer  20:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, your argument is sound- drama would be inevitable indeed. Okay, I won't block Gene if I see further violations, but I may be reporting them here if they do occur. Hús  ö  nd  21:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I appear to have quite accidentally ignited World War III. I was the original author of the article in question. Husond notified me on my talk page of the resulting controversy. In case anyone cares about my views and the genesis of my use of "Şuba" rather than "Suba," this is what happened. I wrote the article First move advantage in chess and cited therein a book by Mr. _uba. I have a copy of that book, "Dynamic Chess Strategy" by Mihai Suba (that's how it's spelled on the title and cover page). I accordingly spelled the name "Suba" in First move advantage in chess. Upon seeing a redlink in the article, I searched Wikipedia for "Mihai Suba" and found that there was no article on him, but that he was mentioned (as "Mihai Şuba") in the article on the Romanian Chess Championship. Knowing how obsessive people are about proper punctuation of names and not wanting to offend anyone (Hah! Silly me!), I wrote the article on "Mihai Şuba" and went back and changed my spelling of the name in First move advantage in chess. Gene Nygaard promptly went ballistic and moved the article from Mihai Şuba to Mihai Suba; evidently Husong went counter-ballistic and changed it back. FWIW, all the sources I saw, other than the Romanian Chess Championship article here on Wikipedia, used "Suba" rather than "Şuba." I don't really give a @#$%, myself, about the resolution of this tempest in a teapot. Krakatoa (talk) 02:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Gee, that's really magnanimous of you, Husond. You won't block me in a content dispute in which you were involved!  Great!  But  what ever made you think that was an option in the first place?  What made you think you could make changes not only without providing any evidence or reasoning for them, but that you could also stifle any discussion by coming to my talk page and threatening to block me for it?  That's part of the core problem here.  Krakjatoa's characterization of my actions is a little off; when I fixed it on 14 April, I wasn't upset at all, and I explained why I was fixing it on the talk page.  It was only after Husond on 18 April started edit-warring without any explanation, and came to my talk page threatening to block me, that I came anywhere near what Krakatoa characterizes as "went ballistic".
 * By the way, Krakatoa, that's one reason why Wikipedia is not a reliable source; it isn't as bad here as in other articles in which invented-for-Wikipedia names are used, tainting results from sites all across the web. Gene Nygaard (talk) 03:54, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, Krakatoa, you caused quite an eruption. ;-) Do you mind if I copy some of your comment to the article's talk page? It seems to me reliance on the sources will be the best way to resolution of this. Jonathunder (talk) 12:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Husond has skirted the three-revert rule by making his third revert in six hours,   and then in the very same minute as his last reversion going to Requests for page protection and requesting that his version be protected (gaming the system to his advantage what he knows from handing such requests on a regular basis, taking advantage of "The Wrong Version" opinion page often cited there).

Even that has some appearances of collusion beforehand. Within five minutes of his request, there were two different editors who protected the page (one of them three times)—one of them before Husond decided to amend the request he had just written, four minutes later. There might, of course, be a perfectly innocent explanation, but that is not the norm for the time frame for handling those requests for protection, and there wasn't much time for any editor granting the protection to make an independent investigation of the circumstances. Gene Nygaard (talk) 12:27, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I think a short page protection is a good idea in this case. Gene, would you consider removing the 3RR/gaming complaint from Talk:Mihai Şuba since you've already noted it here? --Duk 14:53, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not the gaming of 3RR that's the biggest problem; it's the gaming of the page protection rules. There ought to be a rule that when a self-identified edit warrior requests page protection because of his edit warring (note that in this case, there is only one editor who has reverted anything more than once in the article—that being Husond, also the page-protection requestor, who reverted three times) it is first reverted to the version before that last edit by the one requesting protection and only then protected.  Any requests for protection by any third-party not involved in the editing would not be affected by this.  That would eliminate a lot of the gaming of the rules for page protection, of simultaneous edits accompanied by page protection requests at the same instant as Husond did here.  But in any case, it is much more relevant at the article's talk page than it is here.  Gene Nygaard (talk) 13:46, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I too am bothered by the implications of a blind following of WRONG VERSION. Since the harmful edit is the one usually followed by the complaint, it is not just the possibility, but the practical certainty that the truly wrong version will in fact be preferentially protected. The version to protect is the stable version before the edit war, just as we would protect the unvandalized version in a case of outright vandalism. DGG (talk) 05:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. Carcharoth (talk) 05:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I noticed Husond's threat on Gene Nygaard's talk page. I've supported Gene Nygaard in the past, and noted the good work he does. I've also noticed that Husond and Nygaard come into conflict too much over these issues. I think what is needed here is for Husond to be placed under a similar restriction to that placed on Gene Nygaard. That should take a lot of the heat out of the issues and force Husond to discuss things and listen to others instead of edit warring. Carcharoth (talk) 05:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * An alternative, since I see from his talk page that Gene contests the rather old restriction, is to formally lift the restriction (and review all the restrictions at that old page) and acknowledge the good work that Gene Nygaard has been doing. Of course, both he and Husond would still have to discuss controversial moves, just like any other editor does. Carcharoth (talk) 05:58, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Husond already tried to make that claim here last November, and was rejected, without me saying a word about it (he had deliberately timed his claim to bring it up knowing that I was then blocked for unrelated reasons, and it was already rejected and archived when I got back). That "currently inactive and is retained for historical archive" (emphasis in original) log page means what it says, and in any case, the underlining historical restriction was based on moving pages because they didn't have redirects they should have, using it as a shortcut for that purpose, not on moves based on our naming conventions.  Gene Nygaard (talk) 12:11, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I must be confusing things a bit. Sorry. In any case, I would be happy to see a formal lifting of that very old (18 months) restriction, if needed, and for it to be replaced by something asking both you and Husond to adhere to community norms over page moves and diacritics (and for Husond not to use his admin tools in such disputes). I think you already follow norms. Husond may disagree, but then his stance is not exactly in line with consensus or guidelines either. The real problem is the "until further notice" bit. That should never be done, really, as that allows the community to conveniently forget about things, and leaves the person under sanctions having to appeal to get them lifted, rather than having them expire naturally. Carcharoth (talk) 12:25, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Fake New Messages
Hello. If you look at User:Jeanenawhitney, you should see a new messages notice at the top. If you click on it, it leads you to this article. Is this really necessary/appropriate to have?--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">RyRy5 (<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk ) 19:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a policy that states that if you copy the real MediaWiki message, then that's against policy, but if you change the wording, then it is allowed as long as it stays on a user page. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  19:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * While i don't mind the joke banners, this seems a little to far. I also find it concerning that their talk page is automatically archived after one hour.--Jac16888 (talk) 19:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

But is it approriate if it leads to this article?--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">RyRy5 (<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk ) 19:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The user archives their talk page that often because they are retired and "don't want to be bothered". That's my assumption. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  19:34, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The user is hardly retired. The user is, in fact, quite active, using AWB to make a lot of minor changes to infoboxes without regard to the consequences of the reformatting, and then ignoring messages left on their talk page. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  20:16, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Over 500 edits in the past week - I wouldn't call that "retired" or even "semi-retired". Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  20:20, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There's been countless lengthy debates over this, and the consensus is that it's very much discouraged, but wouldn't merit something like a block. Nousernamesleft copper, not wood 19:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering the user is semi-retired, that would also mean that less people will visit their user page, so it's really less of a problem. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  19:40, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

But my concern is that it leads here. I understand that the notice says "You may have new messages". But what about where it leads to?--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">RyRy5 (<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk ) 19:41, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It leads to the word "fuck," what is the problem? It's not as though it redirects to Goatse.cx or tubgirl! George The Dragon (talk) 19:48, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what exactly the policy states, but my personal opinion is that it does not bother me. If there were disgusting images there, then that would be a different story... Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  19:47, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think this discussion is resolved, agree?--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">RyRy5 (<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk ) 19:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep. But, if someone can come up with the policy (which I saw just a few days ago!) then please post it. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  20:04, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Resolved? The user in question puts a "semi-retired" banner on her talk page, but is clearly active, using AWB to make minor changes to infoboxes without regard to the consquences of the reformatting, has over 1500 edits in the past 8 days, ignores messages to the talk page without responding to them, and has the page set to archive every 24 hours, and on top of it has a "new messages" banner which sends you to the article on "Fuck."  Doesn't anyone think that adds up to something? Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  20:23, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Now that I think of it, I do still have concerns that the link leads to the Fuck article. I suggest telling the user to remove it.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">RyRy5 (<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk ) 20:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * On what basis? George The Dragon (talk) 20:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You're welcome to ask, but you need to realize that you have absolutely no grounds on which to protest. We're not censored, and unless someone is placing links to profane articles on your userpage, you're going to have to just ignore it. It shouldn't be hard; you know where the link goes, so just don't click it. Easy breezy. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 20:34, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't see how any of what you just mentioned is relevant to the topic being discussed, which is the new messages bar. If someone says they're semi-retired but they aren't, so what? Perhaps they just have a different definition of "semi-retired" than you do. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 20:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, but do you think that over 4500 edits in the past 10 days is a reasonable definition of "semi-retired"? Or is the "semi-retired" tag and the 24-hour archiving and the "fuck" banner simply a way of ducking responsibility for their editing? Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  20:46, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Then take it up with him. Seriously. There's nothing the administrators, as a whole, can do about someone that wants to have a semiretired tag on their userpage, and it's not a particularly big deal. I never once thought that he was trying to duck out of responsibility for his edits; though I think it often gets abused, WP:AGF is perfect here. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 21:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not censored nor is it a family site. Stop being offended about something pretty harmless. If you want do do something, concentrate on his/her policy-breaking (or at least bending) edits. <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">Tan  |  <font color="#21421E" face="Papyrus">39  20:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec)Sorry, I don't see anyone expressing offense. My impression was that people are wondering about the civility of redirecting unsuspecting visitors to a page that says "fuck". That's certainly my concern, and I was one of those fooled in that manner.  It would have been an OK joke, but when combined with the other factors I mentioned, it seemed more like disdain than humor. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  20:50, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia isn't censored, but there's a general practice here of not surprising users by needlessly leading them to distracting content. I've removed the link as mild, unintended disruption, revert me if you like though. Gwen Gale (talk) 20:47, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm neutral on the reversion. What is unnecessary is this entire ANI debate on some suprise link to Fuck and a dubious claim of a state of retiredness. <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">Tan  |  <font color="#21421E" face="Papyrus">39  20:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you simply asked/told her to change it? When I had a sig with a blink effect, someone simply told me it was discouraged, asked me to change it, and I changed it. <b style="color:#FF1493">Merkin's</b>  <b style="color:#FF1493">mum</b> 20:52, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The user's talk page is being archived every hour, so it's not really an effective means of communication with this user. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  20:53, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I've told the user of this discussion. If they want to play "semi-retired", continue editing heavily, and having the bot archive almost instantly, that's their choice.  If it is found that they cannot be worked with, they could be blocked if their edits are disruptive.  I don't care about the message as I just feel that anyone who is actually offended can complain if they wish. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone might want to remove the archiving on their talk page for now, because it is automated, and 1 hour archival is a very strange interval. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  20:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Interesting looking at the history of the discussion page (which is the only way to really see what's posted there, because of the 1 hour archiving), this diff indicates that the user is willing to edit war and doesn't care if they get blocked for it. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  21:05, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec)I wouldn't read too much into that; at the time s/he and I, and others, were dealing with an editor who persistently want to insert Martha Stewart's non-notable dog into Deaths in 2008 against consensus. The editor clearly would prefer an encyclopedia to be, er, encyclopedic,as would I; however, I wasn't prepared to break the 3RR rule over it. If s/he had, s/he was clearly prepared to take the consequences. Commendable in one way, though not in another. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 21:13, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh sure, I realize a single diff can be misconstrued without context. Problem is, the user has eliminated the context by archiving every hour! Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  21:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * A 1-hour archiving interval already implies that a user wishes to hide any messages that gets posted to their talk page, anyhow, and should generally be inspected. Gary <b style="color:#02b;"><i style="font-size:large;">K</i>ing</b> ( talk )  21:09, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's their choice. If they get blocked, they can't play the "I didn't know" card.  In fact, they are going to have to disable the archiving if they want to put an unblock request out there. What the hell, I'll ask User:Misza13 about setting more rules for the bot.  That's a completely separate point though.  -- Ricky81682 (talk) 21:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

(undent) Well, the links have now been removed so I think this is really resolved now. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 21:23, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec)Yeah, sorta. They restored the "new messages" banner but disabled the links, so the poor random user will go crazy trying to make the link work and get their new message!  Another joke that's midly funny but just a bit mean, which seems in line with this user's general attitude.  Nothing much to be done about that, I guess.  De gustibus Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  21:34, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless her edits start going astray I'd want to skirt stirring things up. Gwen Gale (talk) 21:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * FYI, she added a message on my talk page. She does read the messages so I'm just going to leave it for an actual dispute. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:34, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "Otherwise it is don't bother me with your pettiness" At least this person is consistent in their attitude. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  02:50, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ed, I'd leave it alone. She is doing her thing and it really doesn't seem to be a problem overall.  Besides, there are plenty of more unusual users around here anyway.  Variety is the spice of life, I say. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 04:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, I have no intention of doing anything further. C'est la vie! Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  07:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Marking as resolved, as I think this has run its course. Quick note - it doesn't matter if the user has a 1 hour interval on the MiszaBot III archiving, the bot only archives once per day (look at the talk page history - it doesn't archive every hour, it archives everything older than an hour, once a day). <u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#060">Neıl  <u style="text-decoration:none;color:#060">☎  13:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I get that, but that still means that messages can potentially be archived an hour after they're posted, depending on when the bot shows up. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  13:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Edokter
is removing my image tagging from Image:Rosetyler2.jpg. This image is missing the source and I have tried several times to explain to this admin that he should not remove the no-source tag until he has provided a source for the image. I'm clearly failing in my attempts, could someone else please explain this? Thanks. --Yamla (talk) 22:08, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You caught me in the middle of trying to repair a bad upload; I asumed you tagged the wrong image. I tried to explain that and reverted, after which you blocked me imediately. Now PLEASE let me try and repair the damage! — Edokter  •  Talk  • 22:13, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Note that Edokter has clearly done more than I ever have to bring the Doctor Who-related articles up to high quality. Additionally, it is entirely possible that he had every intention of adding a source and we just ended up edit-warring.  I have already agreed to leave that image alone for a reasonable period of time, so maybe that alone will resolve the issue.  Still, I do not believe anyone should remove the no-source tag from an image until the source has been provided, and I was apparently unable to make this clear to Edokter.  --Yamla (talk) 22:16, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * What set me off hitting rollback was you removing the rationales while placing the tags. — Edokter  •  Talk  • 22:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was removing rationales from the image page because the image was not being used on those pages. If (as seems likely) it was always your intention to add the source to the image page and to readd the image to those pages whose rationale I had removed, you have my unconditional and sincere apologies.  I am aware that I am phrasing this conditionally, but I freely admit that our timing seems to have been bad wrt this image and the fault most likely lies with me.  --Yamla (talk) 22:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Bad timing indeed. And sorry for coming off so strong. — Edokter  •  Talk  • 23:04, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Rose

 * Tangentally, if we have to use a non-free image in this article, shouldn't it be actually be one that actively shows the Rose Tyler character in action in the series? That particular photo might as well just be a photo of Billie Piper, and thus, I would argue, technically fails WP:NFCC. <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 23:01, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That is Rose in character; Billy would not look so seriously. — Edokter  •  Talk  • 23:04, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Now you know that, and I know that, but would an average reader? There must be a better image out there somewhere. <b style="color:black;">Black Kite</b> 23:36, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The BBC have a gallery of images of her: . Either   or  seem more obviously related to her on the series. Just my 2p. Shoemaker&#39;s Holiday (talk) 03:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a cropped publicity shot from a BBC news page. I'd rather not use a screenshot or wallpaper for this, as the wallpaper explicitly states they are for personal use only... which opens up another can of worms. — Edokter  •  Talk  • 10:39, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

User:God Save the South blocked
His second (2nd) edit after coming off a three-day block was to call OrangeMarlin a fascist. I can see no benefit to Wikipedia from his continued participation and have blocked him indefinitely. Reviews and discussion are of course welcome as always. Raymond Arritt (talk) 01:51, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * So much for WP:AGF. We give these people far too much leeway. Entirely agree with indef. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 01:54, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Rodhullandemu, I'm not sure you were here for the incredibly prolonged discussion(s) on this user previously. He was severely warned not to do that again, and apparently missed the memo. Multiple times. <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:blue">Hers <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:gold">fold  (t/a/c) 01:56, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with the block, especially considering the previous warning. Someone should tell OrangeMarlin to not respond with more personal attacks though, regardless. ~ UBeR (talk) 01:57, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hersfold; I read everything and didn't make my comments in a vacuum of ignorance. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 02:01, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Before this gets out of hand, my impression is that Hersfold misread Rod's comments. I read the "so much for WP:AGF" as exasperation that GSTS abused our extension of good faith, not as an objection to the block. (Rod, correct me if that's wrong.) Raymond Arritt (talk) 02:08, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops, yes, I did. My apologies. <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:blue">Hers <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:gold">fold  (t/a/c) 02:17, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. It's sometimes easy to forget that AGF is supposed to work both ways. --<font color="7F007F">Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 03:05, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I will assume good block here, since my every interaction with that user has led me to believe that he is no net gain to the encyclopaedia. Guy (Help!) 13:06, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University
Just a quick one - this article is on ArbCom probation. I managed to help them get sorted out without having to resort to the ArbCom provisions earlier this year (January-February), but right now I'm unavoidably busy offline and won't even be on Wiki for the next 4-5 days, and a new dispute of some form seems to have arisen. I have not had time to look in to see what the dispute is about, but it seems to be over the same minor wording and heading issues that dogged parts of the last dispute, although now with different participants. Can someone with a gentle manner have a look and see if the latest blowup can be resolved amicably? Thanks. Orderinchaos 01:56, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I've had a go. It is over something very minor indeed (should it say "critical links" or "other links"?) <u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#060">Neıl <u style="text-decoration:none;color:#060">☎  13:11, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Roving vandals adding BLP threats to random pages, please zap these
I've just had an IP add some obscene messages to my userpage. This appears to be an ongoing issue regarding a BLP article (per discussion on the AFD page), and the IP is making profane and threatening messages against this person. Can someone range-block this IP, and can someone please zap (as in delete, not revert) those versions of my userpage, as I don't wish to retain defamatory statements in my page history. Squidfryerchef (talk) 03:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Squidfryerchef (talk) 10:51, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Requesting Attention
Dear Admins,

Due to my approach to balance articles, I have been subjected to harassment, especially by members of Sahaja, here are two examples. First one is from User:Marathi_mulgaa,, this is a case of Stalking, second one , is from User:Sfacets, , Requesting intervention, We cannot do much with IP's though.. --talk-to-me! (talk) 07:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Of the three diffs you give, the first two are expressing a concern that you may be a sockpuppet of a banned user (see Suspected_sock_puppets/Cult_free_world). I don't think this could be characterised as stalking or harrassment, although if the checkuser comes out negative, then drop me a note on my talk page and I'll remove the notes Marathi_mulgaa and Sfacets added in good faith.  The third is an IP blanking their talk page, which is allowed. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#060">Neıl  <u style="text-decoration:none;color:#060">☎  11:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Checkuser came back negative due to stale data (Requests for checkuser/Case/Cult free world). I will remove the template from your userpage and the accusations. Note Sfacets is already blocked for other things.  I will keep an eye on Marathi_mulgaa. There's nothing else that can be done at this point so I have marked this as resolved. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#060">Neıl  <u style="text-decoration:none;color:#060">☎  13:06, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the sock puppet case is still active here (based on difs, language and other characteristics). Renee (talk) 13:25, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Unfortunatly NONE of the links (diff's) you all (members of Sahaja Marg) provided, works!!, as it is blocked by spam filter... even MfD didn't worked, what else is remaining ? neither sock case, nor various notices at almost all notice boards worked !! may be its time to re-think that due to your WP:COI you fail to see that there is nothing against any policy that I am doing, all i am doing to starting an article, this is what wikipedia is for... not to delete all articles and become blank !!--talk-to-me! (talk) 16:35, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Blocked user contextflexed outing editor and driving him away; threatening attack article in print venue
If you read User talk:Irishguy, you will see that he has decided to quit editing here, in hopes that the aforementioned contextflexed will cut back on his attacks on Wikipedia. The idea, while noble, is futile: contextflexed has continued to attack Irishguy and I (he seems to think we're best buds or something) elsewhere, and says he's offering a US$50 reward to the first person to "out" Irishguy; and now he says that an article is coming up in a print source in my home town, attacking me for my Wikipedia editing, my clothing choices, and my fanzine(s)! -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  15:39, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The account has already been blocked, back in February. While this behavior is unacceptable and I support the block, I'm not sure what else we can do here. What sort of action were you looking for? MastCell Talk 16:00, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I figured a generic heads-up was warranted here. I guess as much as anything else, I'd like some Wikilove spread for Irishguy, in hopes of not losing this valued editor; and it wouldn't hurt if his userpage/talkpage was on a few more watchlists. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  16:31, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Watchlisted. MastCell Talk 16:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Also agree with block and watchlisted Irishguy's page. Let me know if there's anything else I can do.  R. Baley (talk) 16:50, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Personal attack by User:Erdeniss
I would like administrators to interpret this obscene edit summary, left by User:Erdeniss, and see what response it merits. Dahn (talk) 15:44, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It gets Erdeniss blocked for 24 hours. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:100% cursive;color:#060">Neıl <u style="text-decoration:none;color:#060">☎  15:52, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I left a warning but the block was also called for. Gwen Gale (talk) 15:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

A note in passing
I have just talked through registering and have confirmed his identity as an authorised representative of Gina Bold. Ms. Bold has some issues with her article (see ), they are somewhat complex so I thought it easiest to steer her towards fixing it rather than edit by email, which is clumsy; she has asked Keith to do it for her. I hope we're not going to bite Keith, but please do help out if you see any issues with this user. He seems very nice and polite, but there are a lot of issues and much of it conflicts to some extent with the limited sources cited in the article. Hopefully there will be no problems. Guy (Help!) 17:01, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, he broke the ref tags for a start, but that is a common beginner's error. I don't have time to help right now, but maybe someone else will? Carcharoth (talk) 17:18, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed it. Like you say it's a common error. EconomicsGuy (talk) 17:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

62.30.163.249 (talk)
Repeated changing of genres; has been blocked for this once before.

Continues to do so AFTER 4th warning.  21 <font color="#990000">6 55  ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 17:34, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Have they been reported to WP:AIV yet? Wildthing61476 (talk) 17:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No need. Blocked for 31 hours. Likely an IP sock of, based on the pattern of edits. He uses a dynamic IP, so probably no point in blocking for longer. If the problem resumes after the block expires let me know or go to WP:AIV. MastCell Talk 17:41, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Kanabekobaton
User has been making numerous unexplained edits, and seems especially keen on changing arena infoboxes to stadium infoboxes. User has been asked for explanation without reply, warned and final warned, but there has still been no response. I'm near the 3RR on Stansbury Hall (West Virginia University), so I can't do anything more to fix that article if and when he comes back. Because of the final warning, I reported user to AIV, and I was directed here. DarkAudit (talk) 21:11, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * User continues to edit war, and has removed warnings from their talk page. From this point, the arena/stadium edits without explanation will be considered vandalism. I only warned him, and he followed up by blanking the page. DarkAudit (talk) 21:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * User and IP have been blocked for 48 hours, and in the interim I reverted a large number of other arena articles where this user changed the infobox to stadium. The IP showed up only editing to revert back reversions I had made until it was blocked. There was no response to my or other editors' requests for comments, except for a summary blanking of the talk page. I made note of this discussion, which apparently was ignored. I fully expect a rash of unexplained reversions by one or both when the block is up. DarkAudit (talk) 05:11, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

C.Fred, please familiarize yourself with what a sockpuppet is before blocking users based on that rationale. These edits are not vandalism. Holy crap guys, are any of you paying attention tonight? -- Ned Scott 07:03, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Take a look at the behavior as a whole. There was no explanation for the edits. Even when warned, the only reply was to blank his talk page. Then he apparently switched to an IP to continue along as if nothing ever happened. I was not the only editor who tried to get a response out of this user. There was none. At one point he chopped the Pauley Pavilion article in half. Still no edit summary oe explanation for these actions. If he had spoken up at some point to let someone know why here was doing this, this whole sorry mess could have been averted. But he didn't. That made it harder and harder to assume good faith as the behavior escalated. DarkAudit (talk) 13:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Looking at Kanabekobaton's edit history, there has been virtually no use of edit summaries. From 2005-2007, I think I found one that wasn't automatically provided. Evidence suggests that the user is not a native English speaker. Someone who speaks Japanese should try to get in touch to find out why Kanabekobaton either will not or cannot use edit summaries. Apologies may be in order here. DarkAudit (talk) 18:37, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Just a quick bit of input from me, regarding his edits in a different topic. Whilst some of his edits are constructive, the majority of them are not and some I have encountered are just downright vandalism and he has enaged in edit warring.  Worse, in my opinion (other than the lack of edit summaries) is that when people call him on what he is doing (even twice) he simply ignores it and removes the messages.  PageantUpdater  talk • contribs  20:09, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Very "Discretionary" sanctions
Apparently a honest user has been arbitrarily banned without any possible explanation at all. I'm referring to this case. I'm a little worried about this and I would like to better understand what's going on, I mean: does "discretionary sanctions" mean "completely arbitrary" sanctions? Is there a limit to this "discretionarity"?--Pokipsy76 (talk) 16:57, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's only a topic-ban, and is part of the process of trying to damp down the ever-raging fires by encouraging people not to keep going round the same loops over and over again, something that Thomas has a regrettable habit of doing. WP:TRUTH vs. WP:NPOV as ever. Guy (Help!) 17:02, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You are just unsuccesfully trying to make it appear as something non problematic for the editor ("only a topic ban") and useful for the project without even remotely trying to provide any decent justification. Obviously any possible flame will disappear if we ban every people who do not share your POV but this is obviously not an acceptable solution.--Pokipsy76 (talk) 17:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This matter is already open for discussion at Arbitration enforcement and Requests for arbitration/Clarifications and motions. Please do not create a disruption by spreading the conversation to multiple venues, Pokipsy76. Jehochman Talk 17:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm asking specific questions to the wikipedia community here about the concept of "discretionary sanctions" in connection to what happened. What's your problem? Do you prefer that this thing was not advertised too much?--Pokipsy76 (talk) 17:44, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Worth noting that Pokipsy76 also appears to be topic banned (after this thread was posted, I think), looking at Arbitration enforcement. – Luna Santin  (talk) 21:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)