Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive53

User: 86.11.18.61
This user has been making repeated unsigned comments on Articles_for_deletion/Graeme_Lawton which is concerning a page he created. More seriously though, he made this offensive edit, altering the signature of Logophile to Paedophile. I have left a warning on his talk page but I am not sure if this behaviour calls for a straight ban as disruption. --Spondoolicks 17:25, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It has tampered with both other user's comments and their signatures and is generally not good company. I've blocked it for 5 days &mdash; the duration of an AfD. The other IPs don't appear, yet, to have misbehaved, although the 216.xxxx is not a Cambridge Uni address (131.111.) as it claims in one post. -Splash talk 17:50, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/68.225.248.40
It'll be nice if an admin keeps an eye on this IP user, it keeps on spamming several articles with links to probably his own website trying to sell some graphics/artworks. See also Air Artworks, already marked for deletion. --Denniss 21:50, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I've warned him using the template on his talk page. He can be blocked if he continues to do this. -Greg Asche (talk) 22:48, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Could someone please ban
This anonymous user has been vandalizing pages, revert warring and commiting ethnic personal attacks on wikipedia editors. Thanks --CltFn 05:55, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Blocked by Jpgordon for one month. Seventh block on this IP. --GraemeL (talk) 13:06, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Leonigmig
has been editing User:Pigsonthewing's user page. He's blocked already. Sunfazer 11:54, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

160.91.231.73
is a confirmed sockpuppet of. I have blocked the IP indefinitely, but the IP made an edit today...do indef. blocks on IP's not work? Ëvilphoenix Burn! 01:11, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

You should never block an IP indefinitely, and Scottfisher is not a banned user. You just blocked him indefinitely in what was a rather harsh move anyway. -Splash talk 01:31, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Unless another administrator chooses to unblock him, I consider him to be banned, as the block has not been removed by anyone else, but has been reviewed by several administrators. The user has also been e-mailing administrators asking to be unblocked (see his talk page), and none have been willing to do so. If you feel my blocking of him was in error, I encourage you to review the case (I posted links to the discussions in question on his user page), and you feel feel unblocking is in order, feel free to do so, and the case can be placed on RfC or RfArb. I have endeavoured to be open and communicative to the administrative community with my actions in this case, and if others wish to re-examine the issue, I take no offense at that. As far as an indefinite block on an IP, Blocking policy states: Administrators are permitted and encouraged to IP-block anonymous proxies indefinitely, so there are cases where indefinite blocks on IP's are appropriate. Whether this IP is an open proxy is not something I'm technically proficient enough to address, but evidence has suggested that this IP has only been used by Scottfisher, and therefore I don't feel as bad blocking it. I also noted on the IP's talk page why it was blocked, and encouraged any anonymous contributors that were not Scottfisher to feel free to use the e-mail function to contact me. As far as it being a govt IP, Pigsonthewings mentioned it's connected with Oak Ridge Labaratories. Personally, I'm doubtful that collateral damage will be an issue. Ëvilphoenix Burn! 04:25, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Not to mention its a govt IP (sharedip), I was bout to unblock it myself. «» Who ? ¿ ? meta 01:33, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * To which effect I have reduced the block to 24 hours....as soon as the servers wake up. -Splash talk 01:34, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * For banned users see WP:BU. And Splash/Who are correct, never ever block an IP indefinitely. Dynamic = collateral damage. Static = lifetime ban. Both are bad things, so don't do it ;-) R  e  dwolf24  (talk)  Attention Washingtonians!  01:36, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure WP:BU is a definitive list of all banned users. How about Category:Wikipedia:Indefinitely blocked users? Ëvilphoenix Burn! 04:25, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

See also User:24.183.224.210 (details above). Andy Mabbett 09:56, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Indefinitely blocked doesn't mean banned! I've explained this way too many times... Indefinite block applies to accounts. Being banned applies to people. Indef blocked people are welcome to create another account and be good, banned users not as much so. R  e  dwolf24  (talk)  Attention Washingtonians!  02:49, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * You're right, it doesn't, but I assert that in Scottfisher's particular case, it does, and I've provided links to evidence that I feel that opinion is justified, and I welcome discussion of the issue if that assertion is disputed. Ëvilphoenix Burn! 06:34, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, take a look at the evidence I present at Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing/Evidence and note the contribs Scott seemed to be making. I think he's trying to improve, so maybe you should give him a break. Besides, if he's contributing as a logged in user it's a lot easier to keep track of what he's up to than to keep track of which IP's he's using. — Locke Cole ( talk )  (e-mail) 06:56, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

IP lookups
BTW, for those of you who want a quick way to do IP lookups, I added an ARIN tab to my monobook.js awhile back, feel free to steal it. «» Who ? ¿ ? meta 01:38, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Hey Who! Look over there! *Yoink* I'll be taking that... R  e  dwolf24  (talk)  Attention Washingtonians!  01:50, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Wha, what was that.. you thief you :) Let me know if you have any probs getting it to work. Also, I just copy the IP when I have to look it up on APNIC or RIPE, since the link is provided on the ARIN page. «» Who ? ¿ ? meta  02:08, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Your javascipt is crufty and instruction creep. KISS! Feel free to add the specific part to my book. R  e  dwolf24  (talk)  Attention Washingtonians!  02:13, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Hehe.. simple. . I'm not sure that is in my vocab. Okies.. I'll add it 4 ya. «» Who ? ¿ ? meta  02:17, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Can I have it too? :) Tito xd (?!?) 02:26, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Bulk vending and 1.800.Vending Legal threats
I just received this via email:

Hello

I have repeatedly deleted false and misleading information on our company from the article for 1.800.VENDING. You have repeatedly put the information back on. A lawsuit will be filed in U.S. District Court, District of Utah during the second week in December against Wikipedia and The Wikimedia Foundation. If Wikipedia takes responsibility for your actions as an administrator no legal action will be taken against you personally. If they indicate that they have given you authority to make decisions independent of their company and attempt to place the blame on you we will have no choice but to subpoena your contact information from Wikipedia and file a suit against you directly.

Wikipedia (and/or you personally) are responsible for the false and misleading statments made against our company. It is not our responsibility to sort through the statements to guide you in what is accurate and what is not. We have deleted the information. You have overidden the deletion which make you liable for the information. I would recommend that you delete the entire article. A suit for damages will still be filed against Wikipedia/Wikimedia but no action will be taken against you directly.

Please email any response to the email address listed below.

Jeff Marsh Vice-President, Operations 1.800.VENDING

The IP address was removing large sections of text which were critical of the company without edit summaries and I (along with others) reverted them as vandalism. He was asked to comment for his reasons for removing the text before a block was implemented. As this is a legal threat, I have no intention of replying to the email. --GraemeL (talk) 19:54, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Here's a possible solution: Since most of the critical info is on their previous business, Turnkey Vending, move that info to a separate article, but still include links and a brief explanation in the 1.800.Vending article. Blank Verse 20:24, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't have any stake in the articles. The only times I have edited them was to revert what looked like simple vandalism. --GraemeL (talk) 20:36, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Someday Wikipedia contributors will be sued personally for their actions on Wikipedia, whether or not such suits have a valid foundation. I hope that day is not today and that the contributor is not GraemeL, but Wikipedia has become too successful to ignore the fact that some people and organizations will attempt to use the legal process to manipulate what is written here.  Sigh.  The sadder truth is that the Wikimedia Foundation, if it relies on its previous position as a forum provider rather than an information provider, would neccesary claim that they are not responsible for what is written here and such lawsuits would tend to fall on the contributors personally.  On the plus side, since truth is an absolute defense against libel in the US, adherence to NPOV and other content policies should allow for a fairly strong defense in general.  (P.S. I am not commenting on and have not considered the merits of this particular case.)  Dragons flight 21:17, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Having a look at the article, I agree that we need more on what the company sells, how big it is, etc rather than what laws they may or may not have broken. Reducing the size of the critical section would therefore take back the suggestion that the article is biased against the company, which even if every sentence is worded NPOV, the overall tone of the article is not great. It attacks the company in too much detail without giving in similar detail precisely what they do. In this case, I would suggest that the other company is split off as above and we ask Mr Marsh for information about his company. &mdash; Dunc|☺ 21:52, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Dragons flight has a good point, truth is an absolute defense against libel. But as long as we adhere to WP:NOR, we should be fine too, because even if we publish libelous material, we can't be held responsible as long as the sources we use for the basis of the claim is credible. -Greg Asche (talk) 22:42, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd like some clarification from a lawyer here. Truth is an absolute defense. If someone (maliciously or negligently) posts libellous falsehoods, they might (quite rightly) be liable in law (perhaps a warning to this effect should be placed at the bottom of the edit window). But where would an admin stand who reverted a deletion of the liable, or worse still protected the libellous version? Could the admin be held liable in law, what if he or she acted negligently (not checking the edit history)? And to complicate matters, what law governs? Florida, law of the injured party, law of the admin's location? --Doc ask? 23:21, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, what a tangled web this weaves... what law applies depends on two factors:
 * First, the law of conflicts of law followed in Utah. Some states apply the law of the place where the "wrong" occurred (either in Florida, or in the home state of the admin doing the reversion/protecting at issue) or in the state where the "injury" occurred (which, for things posted on the internet, could be anywhere), and some states just apply their own law no matter what. Utah appears to follow the Restatement (Second) of Conflicts of Law (see Jeffs v. Stubbs, No. 960454 (Utah 1998)), which would use a balancing test to determine which contacts with which states were most significant, which would probably designate Florida as the place of choice.
 * Second, will a Utah court constitutionally be able to exercise jurisdiction over this case? For internet defamation cases in particular, courts apply the "Zippo" test, which examines what type of website the material is posted on, and the level of control exercised by the owner over posting. Wikipedia is fully interactive, but sells very little (certainly the purpose of the site is not to sell goods for a profit). I think the expectant plaintiff in this case is confusing the role of administrator with an employed agent of Wikipedia (the latter would likely make Wikipedia liable, and would allow the plaintiff to extract the admin's contact info from Wikipedia). However, admins are not agents of Wikipedia - they have no power to bind Wikipedia to anything, and have no power that is not accorded to them by their fellow editors (who are also unpaid, and can be anyone). If history is to be any guide, this Utah case is likely to meet swift dismissal for lack of personal jurisdiction over any of the defendants.
 * That's the best opinion I can render without doing any particularly intensive legal research. Cheers! BD2412  T 00:56, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Having looked at GraemeL's userpage it appears he is located in Scotland. This would presumably make things even more complicated as it would need to involve international coordination? I believe that English law is very different to US law when it comes to Libel, and that Scottish law is similar to English law in this regard - would this come into play? Thryduulf 03:04, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Not if the lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court, as the threat alleges. FCYTravis 03:32, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * As someone who used to receive multiple legal threats per day on a near-daily basis, I wouldn't worry about any legal threats that don't come from an actual, honest-to-Bob lawyer. In this case, I wouldn't worry about it even if the threat came from a lawyer, but I certainly wouldn't waste much neural activity on it until that point.  Email is cheap.  (IANAL, but I play one at work.) → Ξxtreme Unction  {yak ł blah } 19:15, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Remington&therattlesnakes
Is cut-and-paste moving pages in a manner similar to Willy on Wheels. --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 09:58, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Indef blocked --Doc ask? 10:15, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * That's the North Carolina vandal. His most recent active account was, which mostly stayed in the sandbox, though he also returned to one of the talk pages of his numerous banned accounts last night  .  If he starts making multiple sockpuppets as he did here , you can shut him down by blocking 63.19.128.0/17.  This guy's been around for a long time.  Antandrus  (talk) 17:43, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

He's rather active tonight. New accounts (blocked already) include



and an old sockpuppet woke up:



And, not surprisingly -- have a look at the IP address of the anon demanding an unblock on Jake Remington, and denying association between him and "Remington and the Rattlesnakes":    Antandrus  (talk) 06:13, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I am not the "North Carolina vandal". I am a completely different person. I am also not RATR. Until you gave that ridiculous block summary "north carolina vandal" to RATR, I had never even heard of the NC vandal.Jake Remington!! 15:27, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Duck test. Since you are vandalising again both by sockpuppet and IP, I blocked you for the day.  I am yet to see a single edit from that IP range which doesn't have a distinctive "quack."  Antandrus  (talk) 19:13, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

And of course, as soon as the block expired, he was back making more sockpuppets, vandalising the usual things, including elitism and elitist:



If you follow the edits of this pair, they lead you to a number of other sockpuppets and vandals he was evidently proud to be, within the last couple months (e.g. "Regara"). Apparently he was even more prolific a vandal than we have realized. I blocked 63.19.128.0/17 for 48 hours this time. And check out -- I'm pretty good at guessing IPs without checkuser, hey? Antandrus (talk) 22:39, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

User:William M. Connolley 13
William M. Connolley: Six-month revert parole on certain articles violation on.

Revision as of 14:04, 5 October 2005 Revision as of 17:58, 5 October 2005
 * Reverted to:
 * Violation:


 * User did not supply adequate talk page comment. User has a requirement that "Each such revert must be backed up by a talk page comment where a reputable source is cited or asked for as appropriate". Violations of this order should be treated as WP:3RR violations. Although AN/I states 3RR should not be reported here, it has been suggested to me that such parole violations should be reported here.  (SEWilco 03:24, 26 November 2005 (UTC))
 * I see you've got as far back in time as October 5, SEWilco. I don't see any advice in the responses to your reports 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 on WP:AN/3RR to go bother WP:AN/I instead, I only see comments like these: "The arbcom refused to acknowledge your calls for action on these same things, and you keep spamming every available forum" (User:Guettarda). " I still do not think that issuing extremely retroactive punitive blocks is useful, for anyone" (User:Splash). "SEWilco is acting like a spoiled child" (User:Nandesuka). "This is petty stalking and nothing else. ... Could you please stop spamming this page with the results of your crusade-inspired painstaking detective work?" (User:Asbestos). "Now that it's becoming fairly established that WMC is not going to be blocked for episodes you're digging up from a month ago, why continue to disrupt this page?" (User:Cleared as filed). "Please reconsider before proceding with further such antique reports, after being repeatedly asked not to" (User:Alai). I ask you to please not follow up this thread with User:William M. Connolley 14, 15, 16, etc on this page instead. If for no other reason than WP:AN/I being much busier than WP:AN/3RR, that would be a really bad idea. Considering how indifferent you've been to all pleas to desist on WP:AN/3RR, I'll add that if you do post further ancient violation reports here, I'll remove any of them I see, and I hope others will do the same. Bishonen | talk 04:44, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I've blocked SEWilco for 24 hours for posting #13. I warned him after #12 that I'd block him if he posted an old one again. I'm in touch with him by e-mail and if he undertakes to stop, I'll happily unblock him early. SlimVirgin (talk) 06:43, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Bishonen, SlimVirgin issued the invitation in my Talk page, and then blocked me for doing so. Apparently SlimVirgin forgot this is not WP:AN/3RR. Part of the discussion there is based upon an assumption that 3RR will be reported soon after the event.  SlimVirgin brought that assumption over here and applied it without discussion.  Clarification from the ArbComm has been requested.  (SEWilco 16:27, 27 November 2005 (UTC))


 * Let's look at some highlights from the "invitation", shall we?


 * SEW, you've now reported user:William M. Connolley 11 times since November 15 for alleged 3RR violations, some of which are over a month old. This is starting to look like malicious reporting, and you may be blocked for disruption if it continues, though by all means report a new violation if you see one.


 * ...violations should be reported sooner. In future, you should probably either report them within a day or two, or let it be. 


 * Your reading of the plain English of her post seems conveniently selective. --Calton | Talk 06:03, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

SEW has a user RFC: Requests for comment/SEWilco. Its regrettable that he is still spamming here rather than finding the time to answer there. He was notified of it at 2005-11-24 23:50:40. William M. Connolley 18:34, 26 November 2005 (UTC).

Talk:Anti-Polonism
Hello, could somebody please review what is going on at Talk:Anti-Polonism and clarify if Molobo's massive edits inside his co-debaters' (Thorsten1/Axl-pl) previous posts are legitimate per the "personal attack" policy? --80.145.60.115 21:48, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Consensus
It seems that the numbers people are always quick to cite as being "consensus" on RFA, AFD, etc, were originally added by Mirv to Consensus to make a point about how ridiculous our definition of "consensus" is. His exact words are:
 * I added the numbers as part of a series of edits meant to point out how bizarre the definitions of consensus used on Wikipedia really were. I am doubly appalled to find out that people are actually citing these numbers as The One True Official Meaning of consensus; I am triply appalled when I realize that this is probably because my description of the weird definitions was dead on.

Instead of being reverted, since his additions were never discussed, they remained. Now, attempts to remove them until being discussed are being halted, only by Philip Baird Shearer, who is going against all the discussion on the talk page and the opinions of at least 5 others.

I believe that the supermajority numbers for RFA, AFD, RM, if they do indeed exist, should be detailed at RFA, AFD, RM, and not on a page about consensus. This only makes people think consensus = supermajority. Policy information about RFA, AFD, and RM belong on their respective policy pages, not on a different policy page.

So, please voice your own opinion. &mdash; BRIAN 0918 • 2005-11-28 00:17

User:Kathywimmer

 * Most, if not all, of 's edits seem to be questionable. Would someone like to keep an eye on her? TacoDeposit 04:01, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Uh, that's my mom's user account. Mewtwowimmer 18:56, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

User:Ha ha ha some dude
I just blocked this user for 24 hours due to some major attacks on User:Francs2000. Should the block have been longer? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 12:46, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Pete the Cunctator I just blocked this user for the same edits as above. However, they also did the same to my pages. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:34, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

User:I'm back! Same as the other two and now hitting User:Redvers and User:Chaosfeary as well. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

User:86.134.207.110 (contribs) is him too: From my talk page (left about User:Francs2000, I had warned about vandalism done on CambridgeBayWeather who'd also vandalised this guy's page - Did not know at the time who Francs2000 even was heh) --Chaosfeary 14:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

The block on the user account should have been infinite, since it was evidently created exclusively to harass Francs2000. dab (ᛏ) 14:48, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm really wishing vandals could come up with better insults than butt fucking queer. Perhaps it's just me, but I want some creativity, like "dim-witted ruffian", or "tottering scurvy-valiant joithead".  Ral315 (talk) 15:00, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Could someone please delete the edits by User:Chaosfeary containing my personal address details from this page? I tried to do it myself but there were far too many edits in the history (thousands) that would have to be selected to be restored in order to do that.  Many thanks. -- Francs2000 [[Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg|25px|  ]] 15:08, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd be inclined to wait for a dev, an admin deleting and restoring this page with such a large history might cause database troubles like when VFD was briefly deleted. the wub "?!"  15:14, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

IheartWWF and Emico

 * (This has been moved from WP:AN by LBMixPro(Speak on it!))

This user above likes to personally attack Lbmixpro and myself just for telling him to stop trying to insult others intelligence. Here are some examples of his bad deeds:

1. His signature - First off his signature is offensive. His signiture is :

IheartWWFwwf (wrestling for gays).

2. First Conflict - He first insults Lbmixpro as an anon user on the talk page of the Iglesia ni Cristo article claiming of his low intelligance level and his knowledge of nothing. Which just isn't true. He is a great and respected user.

3. My response to this conflict - His IP address is 168.243.84.113. See his talk page for the message I left the IP address. I got involved here because Lbmixpro was gaining stress because of him and I was trying to help out a bit.

4. Second Conflict with Lbmixpro and me - Now I'm no genius but it looks like the anon user above created the IheartWWF account also. He left a very rude message to Lbmixpro on his talk page.

I am just now reporting this to someone. He obviously created this account just to vandalize and/or make personal attacks to other users. IheartWWf and 168.243.84.113 should both have a permanent block. There is no room on Wikipedia for a person that just likes to make a fuss. Please can anyone do anything about this? — M o e   ε

I also just recently discovered his editing to the Iglesia ni Cristo as another anon, 213.55.89.8. He should also be blocked as well. — M o e   ε


 * I feel that this has a connection to User:Emico, who has been banned from editing the Iglesia ni Cristo until August 2006 as per ruling by the ArbCom. Although this user's attitude is more aggressive and defiant than Emico's, his edit pattern is very similar. If this is the same person, I belive he has returned the the same editing attitude as he had when he first joined Wikipedia. I have sent notifications to User:TheoClarke, who has been the sysop covering the issues at the article, as well as posted my feelings at Esperanza's stress page, which brought SWD316 into the situation. I suggest those interested in this see Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo which documents the argument and potential edit-war we're facing. Until I can prove this isn't Emico or someone acting for him, I cannot RFC him. I suggest the sysops pay close attention to this article, and possibly issue a WP:RFAr/AER. Theo only posts to WP on a sporatic basis. --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 08:52, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * TheoClarke just returned from a long wiki-break, and is now limiting his level of contribution. It's entirely possible he won't have time to handle the situation, which is unfortunate, as he's a first-rate sysop.-- Scïmïłar  parley 17:54, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I understand that, but things have escalated since I wrote this. I've been talking to both User:Fred Bauder and User:Woohookitty about them and Woohookitty told me to post the situation on WP:ANI. --LBMixPro&lt;Sp e ak 10:37, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I also want to let you know that the conduct of is red-category vandalism, according to WP:CVU. --LBMixPro&lt;Sp e ak 10:13, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * After putting the article up for protection for five days, an anon IP at Iglesia ni Cristo has been aggressively reverting the article in the style of Emico. No matter what we have tried to do, Emico is trying to circumvent bans and unleash vicious personal attacks on both DJ Clayworth, who he has attacked in the past as well as Jondel. Something needs to be done about him. I propose a ban on anonymous edits to the Iglesia ni Cristo articles.--Ironbrew 06:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

After already going a through long Arbitration process I will be blocking suspected socks of Emico which are listed below. --Jondel 11:18, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

User:24.199.136.150, User:193.194.84.195 also vandalized User:M.C. Brown Shoes with 'aka some huge faggot who sucks a lot of cock for cash or just plain pleasure, ' ,

Zen-master blocked for personal attacks
I have blocked for an escalating series of personal attacks. In the process of reverting the Conspiracy theory  article over a dozen times, he referred to the numerous people he was reverting as "the POV pushing bot-esque gang", "the POV bot gang" "POV bots", "bad faithed gang of POV pushers" etc. (e.g., , ,   , ). I warned him that if he continued he would be blocked for 24 hours, but he nevertheless continued making personal attacks in his next two comments (e.g. "you and your POV aligned buddies", "your POV aligned gang" ). Jayjg (talk) 19:06, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I'm not sure what we should do with him. He tried to discuss this with me on IRC on the 26th and apparently he's become convinced that "bots" are used to debate on Wikipedia...either that or these users are all "brainwashed" by "a foreign group". I'm not kidding. Not sure what to do with him, but I'm not sure just a 24 hour block will do. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 20:11, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Maybe he's been spending too much time on the conspiracy theory articles. ;) Seriously though, this is a tough one because ZM is basically a good editor that seems to have this ironclad belief that everything is a conspiracy (here and outside of Wikipedia). It seems to me like it's a case of conspiracism. The fact that his opinions have been opposed by the vast majority of editors and that he's been blocked for his disruption probably only solidify his convictions. I do think that when his behavior reaches the point of making accusations and personal attacks against editors, additional dispute resolution steps are necessary. Carbonite | Talk 20:33, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Not sure if you are aware of this, but he recently had an arbcom case against him. He's on probation. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 07:13, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, I am on probation for race and intelligence and related articles and have temporarily voluntarily refrained from editing them since Jimbo Wales said via email he was going to look into the issue. I accept that many editors of some articles disagree with me on content but the recent incident on conspiracy theory was a case of the majority censoring the existence of a dispute, in my interpretation. I can agree to disagree as far as content is concerned but wikipedia's NPOV policy generally requires signifying the existence of a dispute by adding the {npov} template to the disputed article which is why I was so flabbergasted and got so riled up at the repeated removal of the {npov} template. And I am still waiting for someone to explain how my past comments were "personal attacks" exactly but I plan to move forward regardless. If you feel I have violated wikipedia policy then by all means file a request for arbitration (or explain your specific concerns to me directly). zen master T 07:25, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

What is this with trying to appoint a Cabal this year?
What is Jimbo doing? First he tries to appoint a cabal, now we are only allowed to know what candidates think of themselves, not what other people think of them. Imagine your a random user, and vote, youll end up choosing Sam Spade.

See also User talk:Simon Chartres

Simon Chartres 14:55, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * While I don't particularly care for Simon's way of putting it, he does make a good point. There has been considerable criticism against having the next Arbitration Committee appointed rather than elected, because many people don't like BackRoomDecisions and fear that this may appoint a candidate with friends in the right places in favor of a more capable one. It also seems that public faith in the ArbCom has been dropping, and faith would likely be improved by having a fair election. Finally, neither Jimbo nor the ArbCom have (to my knowledge) been willing to comment on this situation, or give reasons for their not wanting an election. I must say I find this troubling. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 16:35, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Not haveing an endorsements/dissendorsements page is a decision that predates Jimbo's announcement. I assume that people will find way around this. However it all appears pretty academic at the moment.Geni 16:53, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry but there seems to be a fair bit of confusion and of course this is my fault. My suggestion that the methods of creating arbcom members needs to change does not in any way have anything to do with appointing a cabal, and in fact my motivation is primarily the opposite, in the sense that I feel that one of the major problems with last year's process is that only one type of user was favored in the election, which is famous users who are well-connected politically in the community (i.e. a cabal!).


 * Now, we ended up with absolutely excellent arbitrators of course but the committee needs to grow, and we need to consider the dangers of having a committee which is too scared of popular votes. There's a delicate balance which needs to be struck between judicial independence and community feedback and control.  Nothing radical is happening or is likely to happen.--Jimbo Wales 17:45, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * How are you planning to apply this to the French and German wikipedias? If you wanted to change the system why didn't you join the refome discusion like anyone else? What evidence do you have that arbcom has ever been afraid of the popular vote? If it is only a suggestion can we ignore it this time round becuase we really need to start the vote this week so we don't really have time for last minute amendments?Geni 17:57, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Someone could always create a summary Wikipedia activity page for the candidates that includes links to any RFC, RFM, RFAr and/or RFA (failed or approved). That would certainly indicate that a number of individuals needed closer scutiny. Blank <sup style="color:#F88017;">Verse 17:41, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmm I did consider at one point of putting together a list of which candidates I'd blocked.Geni 17:53, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I concur with Radiant. This seems like slightly over-zealous self-censorship.  Jimbo is not a delicate flower.  He can handle it if the community disagrees with him. Nandesuka 18:17, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * As Geni said, discussion regarding endorsements and disendorsements dates all the way back to the 2004 election, after which more-or-less everyone concluded doing it again was an inherently stupid idea - which is why it was explicetely stated that none would be created this year. Raul654 18:20, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that is missing my point. I agree that (dis)endorsements are a bad idea. However, I also think that refusing to hold elections and not bothering to inform the community why, is a bad idea. At present, the impression is that without having the proper connections, one cannot become an arb. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 19:33, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but who said anything about 'refusing to hold elections'? That's a rather odd way to put it. --Jimbo Wales 17:45, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Without commenting on your concerns about the change in procedure (I've voiced my opinion on it in private) -- that is an unrelated issue and irrelavant to this discussion. Raul654 19:41, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * (to Raul) Okay, if you think it's irrelevant in this discussion let me ask again in a new discussion. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 19:51, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm a little confused. Are the elections cancelled? Is Jimbo appointing arbitrators? None of this is mentioned on Arbitration Committee Elections December 2005. Rhobite 19:49, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes. The elections are cancelled, for reasons unknown. As far as I know (since there is little news about it), Jimbo intends to hand-pick arbitrators, regardless of community opinion of those people. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 19:51, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Elections are not cancelled. The process is changing, and the exact details are to be worked out and discussed, and by all means let's discuss it!  But be very clear on this point: elections are not cancelled.


 * What Jimbo has described is a two step procedure -- Jimbo, with advice from the current arbitration committee, selects a set of would-be appointees. The community then has an approval vote on them. Would-be appointees recieving greater than 50% approval will be appointed. Raul654 19:56, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * So logicaly going by past results that would result in an arbcom of one. well at least it would be able to come to descissions quickly.Geni 19:59, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * See, that is already more information than was previously available. Does the community vote on each individual candidate, or on the group? And what will happen if a candidate gets insufficient support, does Jimbo have spare candidates? Do we get to know in advance who they are? Does he start with 15 candidates for 12 seats? Or do we get an ArbCom with less people? Wouldn't it be easier to have Jimbo handpick e.g. 18 candidates and install the 12 that get the most community support? Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 20:00, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * my understandoing is that it will be each invidual. I am not aware of any comment on what happens if a candidate fails. What I'm vaguely woundering is how jimbo intents to apply this to wikipedias in other languages.Geni 20:06, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Could Someone Privileged Enough to have been privy to these discussions, no doubt announced widely on-Wiki, please tell me where the discussions and/or announcements are? -Splash talk 20:13, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I mean for the details as given above by Raul654 rather than the single-sentence Jimbo announcement of the principle of enthronement. -Splash talk 20:16, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * There have been no announcements (except a partial note to the ArbCom election page), everything has been done entirely through BackRoomDecisions. Most discussion can be found here. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 20:19, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Jimbo's announcement
 * As for discussions, they've been going on a lot of places. On the mailing list, the straw poll, this noticeboard, 'etc. Raul654 20:18, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * however the man himself has been silent rendering all such disscusssion pretty academic.Geni 21:38, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * (bit of a promo here, hope you don't mind! :-) ) For those who are unaware, the Wikipedia Signpost has covered major news and events on Wikipedia since the beginning of this year, and we are currently doing a special series on the ArbCom elections. All the news above were covered in the respective week's issue; the paper is published every Monday. We even have a special subscription so that the paper is delivered straight to your user page. So start reading today! (/promo) Flcelloguy (A note? ) 22:03, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration policy ratification vote is still open, so the arbcom can be voted out of power if this appointment issue causes it to lose the community's trust. It will always need 66% support for RfAr to stay open. Guanaco 04:36, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

EddieSegoura
User:EddieSegoura has been spamming Articles for deletion/Exicornt with sockpuppet keep or merge votes (All keep and all-but-one merge votes for this neologism are from brand-new users and suspected sockpuppets), and has now "closed" the AfD as a Merge. (The closure was quickly reverted of course; it hasn't been a week yet, anyway.) Quite a few users have attempted various dialogues with this user; no real progress. This AfD edit strikes me as disruptive enough to possibly merit a block. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:54, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I thought pages could be closed 5 days after they were opened. I didn't mean any harm, no please drop this.  -- EddieSegoura 23:03, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, it hasn't been 5 days, and no-one, admin or not, should close an AfD that they were involved with. Don't worry, though- I don't think this is disruptive enough to call for a block, at the moment.--Sean|Bla ck 23:13, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I reopened it and left a note on Eddie's talk page. I think the premature closure was a simple misunderstanding. (Off-by-one error? He did it after four days, almost to the minute!) The rest of his misbehavior is annoying, and I can't tell whether it's from ignorance or malice. FreplySpang (talk) 23:22, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * In addition, the result of the AfD was Delete, see: []. Throughout the AFD, Eddie kept insisting the outcome would be "keep and redirect" to Crossover (rail) and now an IP has restarted the Exicornt page with a redirect to Crossover (rail). A number of us have tried to reason with Eddie but to no avail. Sarah Ewart 12:37, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * That IP ( is Eddie. See for proof. --Calton | Talk 12:58, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I've deleted it and also Excornt from User:198.22.123.104 and Excornts from User:152.163.100.135 CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:00, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Anglican Bishophoric moves
Bessarion (talk • contribs) has taken it upon himself to apparently rename every single Anglican Bishophoric in the UK. For example, he moved Bishop of Salisbury to Bishop of Salisbury, England (Anglican). He is using that style on all of them. I'm an admin. I'd block him myself but I wanted others to look at it to make sure we have just cause. He *has* been warned on his talk page. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 12:01, 27 November 2005 (UTC)


 * He is very much in the wrong. These page moves and forks are out of order.  Firstly, to say that the Church of England is not catholic is POV (and, in my opinion, demonstrably wrong).  Secondly, to say that there is a need to disambiguate between two things which are actually the same thing is false.  Thirdly, why do we need to have "England" in the title?  I am still searching for this other city called Salisbury that has a cathedral.  Fourthly, it is certainly some people's opinion that the Reformation, in legal terms, actually was a non-event.  It was only Henry VIII working out he had certain rights, and making Parliament tell everyone that (well, that was his POV, anyway).  This whole thing is so full of PoV and potential misunderstanding that a debate should have been held first.  I would go and revert them all, but my revert button seems to be broken and I haven't the time to do each manually via dial up.  I hope someone else does.   [[Sam Korn ]] 19:48, 27 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Unless someone objects, I think I'm going to undo the moves tonight. He was less than civil in the only talk interaction he's had so far. Duncharris and myself have both tried to talk to him. Maybe someone else should try? If he ignores us, then yes, I think we should revert his changes. If anything else, it would set REALLY bad precedent if we let a new user make a massive # of moves (I believe he's over 40 now) without discussing it anywhere first. And yes I agree with Sam, this isn't a cut and dry case. Any other thoughts would be appreciated. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 20:29, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * This seems a fine question to put to Ann, if someone hasn't already. · Katefan0(scribble) 21:22, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * While I can't speak for the quality of the moves, making such massive changes without discussion is highly inappropriate.--Sean|Bla ck 21:31, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree with Sean that it's highly inappropriate to make these changes without prior discussion. I find, though, that I'm getting confused by the whole thing. For example, I saw a message on Bessarion's talk page saying that "we only disambiguate when we have to (such as for the Bishop of Liverpool, because there are simultaneously CofE and Catholic Bishops of Liverpool", but when I clicked on Bishop of Liverpool, I was taken straight to the page on the Anglican Bishop, with no mention of or link to the (Roman) Catholic Bishop. I don't know if there is an article on him or not. Also, Bishop of Bangor, Wales (Catholic) is now redirecting to Bishop of Bangor, which is an article about the Anglican office, belonging to the category "Anglican bishops by diocese".
 * I also agree with Sam that it's POV to say that the Church of England is not catholic. I don't personally use the term "Roman Catholic", partly because the Catholic Church doesn't officially call her self "Roman Catholic" (note that we have a Catechism of the Catholic Church, not a Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church), and partly because it excludes Eastern Catholics (e.g. Byzantine Rite) who are in union with the pope. However, I have no objection when others say "Roman Catholic", and I'm quite happy to go along with Wikipedia policy. However, I think all the articles about bishops should make it very clear (near the top of the article, though not necessarily in the title) whether it's a (Roman) Catholic or and Anglican bishop. I'd support undoing the moves, and, where necessarily, making the article clearer. If Bessarion wants them moved, let's have a proper discussion first. (And by the way, shouldn't the Bishop of Bangor, Wales (Catholic) be deleted rather than redirected to Bishop of Bangor?) AnnH (talk) 09:33, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * A lot of these edits are counter-intuitive. seems to be creating seperate Anglican/Catholic pages for every bishop in England and Wales. In most instances, there is no modern Catholic bishop in that see, so the mediaeval history of the see (before the creation of an indepenent Church of England) is seperated from its modern history. If there are two or more bishops of different churches in the same see, then it is appropriate to disambiguate. However, the man who was Catholic bishop of a diocese at the time of the split with Rome, would, in many cases, be the Anglican bishop after it: the lucky fellow gets two Wikipedia pages. The approach of this user is simply wrong, and is a clear case of WP:POINT. --Gareth Hughes 13:11, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and did the move backs. Here is my work. If someone who does alot of moves could double check my work, that would be most helpful. Thanks. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 13:35, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * OK NOW it's working. :) With the help of RussBlau (thanks Russ!), we figured out that they were all reverted yesterday but that all they did was create double redirs. Anyway, I had to restore about 20 pages and revert back to the version before they were moved yesterday. They should all look ok now. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 20:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Persistent vandal (Ashida Kim?)
This user seems to be back, with a different IP each time, see Jimmy Wales (like this diff ) and the pages Shuriken, Chokuto, Ninjatō, etcetera. I vprotected those martial arts pages, but what else can we do? --Joann e B 15:28, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * They vandalised Francs2000's page too, claiming that Wikipedia needs to "REMOVE THE FALSE MATERIAL FROM KIM ARTICLE OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" or something like that... Crazy people.. --Chaosfeary 15:36, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, this gentleman has been making the rounds of Internet for years. He used to espouse his virtues (and attacked his detractors) at rec.martial-arts with great frequency. I think it's safe to just treat him as a vandal and deal with him (and his IPs) as such. --Deathphoenix 16:31, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Just block him. We've all dealt with him before.--Sean|Bla ck 19:37, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It seems Ashida Kim has finally degenerated from being a fraudulent martial arts scammer to a petty Wikipedia vandal. His newest batch of vandalism no longer included the insane ramblings about conspiracy between Jimbo and bullshido.com website, but instead just penis images. See and . It is too bad we cannot delete his article because he clearly is a notable person. He seems to have some IP mobility, making blocks less effective. jni 13:17, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Teapot
...is being vandalised multiple times by multiple users and I'm getting fed up reverting all the time. Can someone with more know-how please help? 217.41.241.203 17:43, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I blocked the two vandals, whose contrib history is exclusively vandalism to this article. What a tempest in a... · Katefan0(scribble) 17:50, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Marcperkel
The above user is upset that an article he wrote on a church he founded was deleted back in June, and when he recreated the same article a few days it was speedied as such, and he also lost a VfU despite enlishing a number of meatpuppets from a mailing list. He's decided that I'm apparently to blame for all of this (he calls it "censorship") though all I did was point out he was recreating deleted content (I didn't actually do the deleting, though he doesn't seem to understand this). He's also apparently posted a note to a mailing list telling his users to spam my talk page and has since threatened other users with a similar action. Now I'm not going to block him since I'm somewhat involved in this, but I'd appreciate if someone else would decide whether or not his behavior here has warranted a brief blocking. --Fastfission 19:23, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd say it does - he's been threatening User:Splash with simmilar. See . I'm ready to block him for blatent disruption and threats, but what do others think? --Doc ask? 22:07, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Too late, pals . :).--Sean|Bla ck 22:14, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I've no complaints there - good on Dunc --Doc ask? 22:24, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

University of South Carolina and Clemson University
and I have been engaged in some discussion on both of these articles Talk pages. User has added information to both articles which has sometimes been in my opinion very POV and biased, which I have deleted, and recently added copyrighted material to University of South Carolina, which I removed, and I am attempting to explain that copyedited material cannot be accepted. User is objecting rather heavily. USC and Clemson are rivals, and hence both articles have been subject to vandalism from various sources, so I keep an eye on both, attempting to maintain NPOV and factual accuracy on both articles. As disclosure, I attended Clemson University. I would be greatful for participation on the Talk page of the articles from other editors and administrators. Ëvilphoenix Burn! 20:55, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Maladministered servers showing CPanel
CPanel is an admin tool for web servers. If you look at http://69.16.200.85 and http://209.123.8.125, you'll see a good example of the dangers of default installs. Both are now blocked as open proxies ... If you go to an IP and see a screen like that, is the appropriate action - David Gerard 15:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Yuber
In accordance with Requests_for_arbitration/Yuber and Probation, Yuber has been banned from editing Syria for one month for continuing to remove properly sourced and relevant material. I wrote to him about this on November 16 and November 17, formally warned him on November 19 and gave him a final warning on November 20, but he went ahead and removed it again anyway. SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 22:23, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
 * You clearly and politely stated your point on his talk page User talk:Yuber. I don't see why you need to put this to the scrutiny of your fellow admins. If you checked with the arbcom as you said, there's no way anyone could say you were wrong in doing this. Or is there another reason you are putting this up here? - Mgm|(talk) 23:09, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, one of the provisions of Probation is that a banning should be announced on the ANI for review. Looks fine to me, btw. Dmcdevit·t 23:55, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks Mgm and McD. It's the first time I've done one of these, so I put it up here just to make sure I'd gone through all the steps correctly. I've also e-mailed Yuber and offered to reduce the ban to a week if he undertakes not to delete that same passage again. No agreement so far. Cheers, SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 11:37, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Yuber has also been fond of sockpuppetry and is absolutely certain he's far smarter than anyone else here. If new users show up and strangely start making the same edits ... - David Gerard 14:16, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Harassment_by_BrandonYusufToropov.2FYUBER_super-sockpuppet...... --Chaosfeary 13:08, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

What to do about very persistent anon vandalism?
I'm a bit at a loss to know what to do about the persistent vandalism of Bagrationi - see the history of that article. It's the work of a Georgian ultranationalist, User:Levzur, who the Arbitration Committee members may recall from an (uncompleted) arbitration last year. He appears to be unhappy with the current version of the article and has evidently decided that if he can't impose his version, he will blank it, vandalise it or move it to a nonsense page name. As his user account is blocked for an extensive period, he's exploiting his ISP's proxy server to avoid blocks.

This has been going on now for several weeks. We can't protect the article indefinitely, obviously; there's little point in blocking individual IP addresses, as he will simply log on again and get another; we could block his ISP's /16 but that would cause collateral damage to other users; other than having a lot of people watching the article and reverting when it gets hit, is there anything more that we can do?

This sort of thing really highlights why we need to be able to block individual users or IPs from editing individual articles. If it were possible, I'd simply block 213.157.0.0/16 from blocking Bagrationi, and that would put an end to it. -- ChrisO 21:30, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * There is a similar problem going on on the George W. Bush article. There's nothing much you can do, except keeping an eye on it and constant reverting. Nothing works - people have proposed using the "protected" template as a discouraging bluff, but it didn't work; nothing works. Izehar 21:35, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't be too worried if his range had to blocked for a while, as we have (to my knowledge, and I keep a watch on most of this area) only the one notable editor in Tbilisi (User:D.Papuashvili). As long as Papuashvili isn't blocked, I can't see overly great harm in rangeblocking Levzur. Ambi 04:25, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Speedying pre-deleted content.
List of sexual slang contains all material from Body parts slang, which was deleted at WP:AFD with the deletion endorsed at WP:VFU. A speedy tag, which I admit was questionably applied, was removed. Can this article be speedy-deleted or not? Either way, could someone please try explaining to the responsible editor why combining two massive lists, one of which has been deleted in full compliance with process, to create a 150 kilobyte list is unacceptable? I'm apparently not doing a good job of being convincing, or concilliatory, or whatever it is I need to be. The Literate Engineer 03:33, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I've removed the revisions containing the deleted content. I have to go to bed now, or I'd be more helpful on the conciliatory side of things too. -Splash talk 03:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * AFD can't determine the editorial content of all future versions of all articles by voting to delete then not voting to undelete. However, good editorial sense (which admins will probably have at least a little of given the RFA process) says "if it's crap, treat it as such" - David Gerard 01:37, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

hardcore spammer or spambot
Some 30 articles or so were hit by User:68.51.133.149 to put in advertising links. IT'd be nice if somebody could roll those all back to get them all at once instead of having to delete them one by one. DreamGuy 03:47, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Done. R  e  dwolf24  (talk)  Attention Washingtonians!  03:50, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Much appreciated. DreamGuy 18:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

MARMOT and User:Dublin Beers
I blocked indef blocked Dublin Beers earlier as a new account created ony to redirect articles to Dublin. However, the user claims that it was some type of publicity stunt that MARMOT put him up to. I'm not sure what the significance is, and whether to unblock this account. Opinions? --Doc ask? 14:32, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * My advice would be
 * Do not block for the moment; this stupidity has been going on for days now.
 * Ask MARMOT for input.
 * Maybe get someone with the power to compare the two user IPs?

I hope it wasn't MARMOT, I really do. Filiocht | The kettle's on 14:41, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Dublin Beers is already indef blocked as a 'vandalism only account'. I have notified MARMOT and invited him to comment but, to be clear, at tis stage I am not accusing him of any wrong-doing.--Doc ask? 15:05, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * OK the Dublin vandal is still at it see and doubtless more - this probably has nothing to do with MARMOT. --Doc ask? 15:22, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * A few days ago I blocked for the same reason. I only used 24 hours at the time, although he presumably didn't realise that fact. Given that the modus operandi(ae) are identical, I've extended that to an indef block. -Splash talk 15:26, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I've created a page similar to the Willy on Wheels vandalism report, from my userpage. It can be found at the link:] and you can use it to report his incarnations as they come.

I am setting up some for other vandals soon. Hope this helps. --Sunfazer 15:42, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * "What's his IP address?" MARMOT 21:10, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

ArbCom: Jimbo is aware of concerns
(this is so off-topic for this page)

The AC caught Jimbo's attention that actual sensible people, not just past and future defendants, were extremely upset about the lack of a decision on the procedure for the next AC. He's looking now and I expect something would come forth in reasonable order (presumably a day or two, given his schedule) - David Gerard 18:04, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Also see this diff (from this page) and this diff, this and this from Jimbo's talk page. -Splash talk 18:09, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Ah, excellent! - David Gerard 01:33, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Moolobo
does vandal edits. He uses nick which can be easily mistaken with the nick of another user Molobo. Alx-pl  D  19:28, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I've blocked him indefinitely. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 12:39, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Not a Banned Editor
has been editing Freemasonry and Anti-Freemasonry. They may not live up to their name. Susvolans ⇔ 14:34, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Yup. You should block this latest sock of ; I've verified it's him with CheckUser.  Kelly Martin (talk) 15:02, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Alright, blocked indefinitely. Sjakkalle (Check!)  15:04, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Leonig Mig
has been vandalizing the Leonig Mig userpage over the past couple of days, and he just vandalized it again less than an hour ago. Can someone block him and/or protect the page? (It was protected from the end of September, up until a week or so ago, but as soon as it was unprotected the vandalism appears to have began again (check the history for User:Leonig Mig). Thanks! -- Locke Cole ( talk )  (e-mail) 10:42, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I have vandalised nothing. False acusations of vandalism constitute a personal attack. Desist. Andy Mabbett 10:49, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Uh... removing content from other peoples userpage, after various people have told you to stop, that's the definition of vandalism. So no, I won't be "desisting" anytime soon. Why don't you desist with the vandalism? -- Locke Cole  ( talk )  (e-mail) 10:51, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * He vandalized User:Leonig Mig's userpage again... -- Locke Cole ( talk )  (e-mail) 13:06, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I'd just like to note that what POTW is trying to remove from Leonig Mig's userpage is far from a "personal attack". It's a, IMO, rather sad statement saying that he feels bad for others that POTW has harrased. POTW, you'd best just forget about, and move on: it's not that big of a deal.--Sean|Bla ck 18:04, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The content which is being removed: "I left because of a user called Pigsonthewing. If he frustrates you too, my heart goes out to you." is clearly not constructive and helps create a hostile atmosphere. IMO there's a good case for removing it, although Pigsonwings probably shouldn't do it himself. - 82.172.14.108 13:24, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Two administrators have already intervened to stop the removal of that content (one by protected the page for almost two months, the other by reverting it multiple times), so if there were a good case for removing it, you'd think they'd have done it. Personally, if another user drove me off, I'd like to think I could leave a parting note on my user page indicating why I quit... -- Locke Cole ( talk )  (e-mail) 14:03, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, then it should also be noted that it isn't strictly true... Leonig Mig has NOT left, he just changed user names. Another significant fact not mentioned here is that this situation is the mirror image of a previous dispute where Leonig Mig kept removing a statement about himself from Pigsonthewing's user page.  Neither action (posting negative comments about another user and removing such comments from someone else's user page) is particularly helpful, but am I the only one finding it odd that in both cases there were official complaints filed about Pigsonthewing's actions... and not Leonig Mig's essentially identical behaviour? --CBDunkerson 09:52, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Perhaps. However, Leonig, is obviously deeply hurt by what's happened. Anyways, everybody involved should remeber what I said: It's not that big of a deal.--Sean|Bla ck 03:02, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

In what seems related to this, Locke Cole and POTW have been having a revert war on User talk:Pigsonthewing over a vandalism warning left by Locke Cole. I've blocked Locke Cole for 3 hours for disruption; 6+ reverts to someone's talk page is bordering on harrassment. android 79  12:35, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I've also protected User:Leonig Mig. android 79  14:09, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't think this is a good case for protection of the userpage of Leonard Mig--such unconstructive statements, particularly from departed editors who have decided not to continue contributing, cannot be intended to further the task of writing the encyclopedia. Mr Mig should write his message on his website or blog if he wants to publicise his grievance. Whether the statement should be removed is an editing matter and should be decided by the community. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 03:03, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * If Mr. Mig were still about there would be little doubt about him keeping this fairly innocuous statement on his user page. To play the devil's advocate, how long does someone need to be gone before their user page becomes "community" property?  We have several active admins who have at one time or another "left the project", I note. -  brenneman <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(t) <sup style="color:#2f4f4f;">(c)  04:17, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Leonig Mig is still editing under another username, just so you know. Tito xd (?!?) 04:19, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * What's "fairly innocuous", about a blatant falsehood? Andy Mabbett 10:17, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * So why don't you remove it, then? Andy Mabbett 12:46, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Pigsonthewing just vandalized the page again. Locke Cole 10:46, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * And again. Locke Cole 12:22, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Third time now. Locke Cole 12:35, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Cease making false accusations of vandalism. Andy Mabbett 12:43, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Removing content from others' user pages is generally frowned upon, unless it is a blatant personal attack. Leonig Mig is simply stating his reason for leaving. Others have done the same thing &mdash; when Redwolf24 left for a little while, he posted on his user page why he left; RickK did the same. The only difference is Leonig Mig's reason for leaving is a user, not an issue or an abstract "them". POTW, if a user pissed you off to such an extent that you decided to leave the project, wouldn't you appreciate the right to state calmly on your own user page that you left because of them? I know I would. Please just leave his user page alone and move on. We need to be building an encyclopedia here, not revert-warring over a user page that (comparatively) very few people will see. H e rmione1980 12:54, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Leonig Mig is simply stating his reason for leaving.: Not only has he not left; but the reasons he gives for supposedly having done so are false. Andy Mabbett 23:33, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * POTW, if a user pissed you off to such an extent that you decided to leave the project, wouldn't you appreciate the right to state calmly on your own user page that you left because of them?
 * But I think it's a disputable point whether it gives an objectively true reason to anyone who reads it. I've no doubt that Leonig Mig was upset, but it seems open to interpretation whether he was unreasonably hassled, or had a hissy fit because he wouldn't accept that all his work needed editing to conform to WP:NPOV and WP:MOS. I believe the latter to be nearer the truth. Tearlach 19:43, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. If that was the case, why did Leonig Mig create another account and continue to provide edits? Why not remain with the Leonig Mig account? Most likely answer: because Pigsonthewing harassed him until he simply could not stand log in. Pigsonthewing habitually skirts WP:NPA and WP:3RR (often gaming the system) to get his POV on edits.
 * Besides, when a user leaves, I think it's highly disrespectful to subsequently edit their userpage because you disagree with why they left. If you believe it to be an attack, get an admin to make the change for you (assuming they can be convinced), don't do it yourself. Locke Cole 20:39, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Most likely answer: because Pigsonthewing harassed him until he simply could not stand log in.: That's neither likely, nor true. I have harassed nobody; to claim otherwise would be a lie. As to beng disrespectful, how respctful was this? Andy Mabbett 23:30, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Pigsonthewing is currently under a personal attack parole due to the Request for Arbitration against him: Requests_for_arbitration/Pigsonthewing. Locke Cole 12:56, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I have made no personal attacks. The so-called "parole" is without foundation. Andy Mabbett 13:16, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Not only has he not left; but the reasons he gives for supposedly having done so are false. Andy Mabbett 13:13, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * They're not false as you were blocked previously for this before. Desist vandalizing other users pages immediately. Locke Cole 12:56, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Cease making false accusations of vandalism. Andy Mabbett 13:16, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Yoo hoo! Andy! Requests_for_comment/Pigsonthewing! Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing! Still waiting for you! Perfect place to respond! --Calton | Talk 13:23, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I've updated the Evidence of his RFAr with these latest vandalisms. Locke Cole 13:33, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Cease making false accusations of vandalism. Andy Mabbett 14:08, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * This would be fascinating... if they were false. Locke Cole 15:15, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

By the way, i'd like to point out that when I protected Andy's userpage over the mirror incident, I got it unprotected after 8 hours, with an agreement from Leonig not to do it; and he never did. --Phroziac. o ºO (mmmmm chocolate!) 13:20, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The difference being, that what is on my user page is neither a lie, nor a personal attack. Andy Mabbett 23:30, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * RFAr. Answer it. Alex Schenck (that's Linuxbeak to you) 23:34, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Foosher
Could someone who enjoys tracing sock puppets take a look at User:Foosher's contributions. They seem to be involved in many VfD and controversial page moves. Even the normal edits mostly look contentious or have been reverted. I don't know who they might be a sock of, but that is probably where the fun in tracing a sock lies. -- Solipsist 08:01, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm now sure this user is a sock and related to User:Foogol and User:169.157.229.67. The Foogol and Foosher accounts were both created on 7 November 2005 and have been engaged in VfDs, controversial page moves and probably trolling generally (see for example History on Boatswain).
 * This user moved the page Cat flap against concensus last night and all three of these accounts were also involved in the voting there whilst also deleting previous votes. Despite warnings, they have just moved the page again.
 * I already have a vested interest, so could another admin take action. -- Solipsist 21:40, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Cat flap has now been reinstated to its pre-move form. - Mgm|(talk) 14:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Overzealous blocking? (165.138.120.151)
I wonder if I can get some input on this block. To me, blocking any IP for a month, when their only warning is a test1, looks quite drastic. Sjakkalle (Check!)  15:00, 30 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I would agree. Long-term vandalism is a valid reason, but at least a test3 should have been stuck in before blocking, IMO. --Deathphoenix 16:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It would be a valid reason if there were any long-term vandalism going on. Before today, the IP had 3 edits, 1 of them good. Just one of those 3 was in last 6 months. Today, the IP vandalized 3 pages, and restored one of them back to its original state. So what we have here is an IP vandalizing 1 page two weeks ago and 2 pages today. Blocking them for a month is completely out of proportion. Zocky 16:45, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I've unblocked because I don't think the IP was warned sufficiently and there's no evidence this is a long-term "problem"; the IP is a shared school IP. Those shouldn't be blocked for a month. Demi T/C 17:11, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * To update, brian0918 contacted me on IRC; the IP vandalized China again. In the course of the conversation I reverted another vandalism on Great Wall of China and blocked for three hours. Demi T/C 20:13, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * For clearly long-term vandals, even from shared IPs (not AOL-level of "sharing" but, say, a middle school), I don't even bother with warning because their talk page is already flooded with warnings. I had found several such IPs today, and this one got lost in the mix. I didn't check all of the IP's edits for vandalism. That said, I still would have blocked for 24 hours. &mdash; <b style="color:black;">BRIAN</b> 0918 • 2005-11-30 20:16

George W. Bush protection

 * 12:00, November 30, 2005 Golbez unprotected George W. Bush (to protect)
 * 23:32, November 29, 2005 Redwolf24 protected George W. Bush (To whoever unprotected - you forgot to protect from moves)
 * 23:20, November 29, 2005 Titoxd unprotected George W. Bush (hopefully latest vandal wave stopped now)
 * 21:34, November 29, 2005 Jtkiefer protected George W. Bush (vandalism)
 * 21:34, November 29, 2005 Redwolf24 protected George W. Bush (Some sockpuppet master having fun, will undo soon)
 * 21:33, November 29, 2005 Redwolf24 unprotected George W. Bush (gonna temp. full protect)
 * 21:29, November 29, 2005 Ral315 protected George W. Bush (Reprotect from Moves.)
 * 21:28, November 29, 2005 Ral315 unprotected George W. Bush (Bad edit summary removed; can be unprotected now.)
 * 21:22, November 29, 2005 Ral315 protected George W. Bush (Protecting fully)
 * 21:22, November 29, 2005 Ral315 unprotected George W. Bush (Unprotecting for full protect.)
 * 16:38, November 29, 2005 Splash protected George W. Bush (moves only)
 * 16:38, November 29, 2005 Splash unprotected George W. Bush (profoundly wrong to protect this)
 * 15:31, November 29, 2005 Golbez protected George W. Bush (what the hell, splash?)
 * 14:44, November 29, 2005 Splash unprotected George W. Bush (no point)
 * 13:15, November 29, 2005 Hall Monitor protected George W. Bush ({vprotect}} due to vandalism, see history; please remove and protect from moves only when appropriate)

Perhaps we can have a somewhat neutral party look at this? This is by far the most vandalized article on Wikipedia. Two things cause damage to our reputation - having a vandalized article, and preventing editing. In the case of this article, which someone estimated to be in a vandalized state 8% of the time, I say the vandalism damages our reputation far more than preventing the "wiki way". You may note that all of these are in the last 24 hours, so there's somewhat of a wheel war going on. --Golbez 17:10, 30 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Constant vandalism and reversion of that vandalism does prevent productive editing when it reaches the level of the Bush article. There's usually hundreds of edits per day to that article, the vast majority of which are vandalism or reverts. I don't think there's anything wrong with treating the handful of articles that are constantly vandalized a little differently than we do the other 800,000+ articles. Carbonite | Talk 17:21, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It's not really a wheel war, more like separate severe vandalism attacks occuring within hours of one another. There already is discussion about how we can deal with this. Tito xd (?!? - did you read this?) 17:51, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Personally, I'd rather it be vandalized 8% of the time than uneditable 100% of the time. -Splash talk 18:02, 30 November 2005 (UTC)


 * To clarify...my protection was to calm things down so that Brion could easily edit a few edit summaries that contained Jimbo Wales' personal information. I don't know about the others, but I do agree that protecting the article should be avoided.  Ral315 (talk) 02:05, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Look at Semi-protection policy. Btw, this "vandalism is better than..." stuff bothers me. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 11:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

The problem is that at present a significant part of our anti vandalism sratergies rely on on us know which are articles are likey to get hit. Take that away and you increase the pressure on RC patrol.Geni 12:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

The nut
Conversation moved to conversation in progress at Wikipedia talk:Semi-protection policy · Katefan0(scribble) 19:09, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

EK Parole
Could someone look into whether the conversation on Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Xed 2/Evidence is a violation of the ruling against Everyking? Specifically the rule that "Everyking is prohibited from making comments on non-editorial actions taken by other administrators other than on the administrator's talk page, a Request for comment, or a Request for arbitration." Thanks. Phil Sandifer 04:23, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I would opine that strictly speaking Everyking's remarks do fall within those permitted by the ruling (full text at Requests for arbitration/Everyking 3); talk pages of an RfArb would fall within the criteria listed.
 * I suspect that this sort of commentary isn't what the ArbCom intended to allow Everyking to engage in, but I can't and won't try to read minds. I might suggest that Everyking could more helpfully contribute to the arbitration by actually presenting evidence to support Xed's claims rather than arguing with Snowspinner on a talk page.
 * A request for clarification at RFArb would provide a definitive answer as well as giving the ArbCom members an opportunity–should they so desire–to clarify their intent. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 04:50, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * This is about me, so I'm allowed to respond to it, right? I just want to say that what Snowspinner's saying here is pretty good evidence in favor of the point I was making on that page. Everyking 04:54, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Erm, what? He politely asks other admins to review something that he felt may have been in violation of the ArbCom's ruling, and that's proof that he's a "bully"? Or that the ArbCom is biased towards Phil, or something? That makes no sense whatsoever.--Sean|Bla ck 05:02, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * As per TenOfAllTrades: strictly speaking I'd say, yes, this was allowed... but it skates perilously close to the intent. Cut it out, both of you, or take it to each other's talk pages; your input isn't helping the case at hand. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 05:10, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I probably ought not have responded - I apologize. Phil Sandifer 05:25, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, you're prohibited except for posting notice of your own actions. Phil Sandifer 05:25, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Perhaps this is another point that should be clarified with the ArbCom. Given that we're explicitly discussing Everyking's actions here, I think that he is–or is meant to be–allowed to comment on those actions.  That the discussion of Everyking's actions was actually started by another editor shouldn't bar him from posting.
 * On the other hand, Everyking's response above seems technically over the line of the ArbCom remedy&mdash;he is editorializing about Snowspinner's actions in a forum that is not prescribed by the remedy.
 * Frankly, I think everyone here would be happiest of we could all get a quiet night's sleep, and any further discussion of this matter (that is, clarifications of what is and is not covered under the remedy) be taken to WP:RFArb. Otherwise I am concerned that this thread will descend back into the unproductive back-and-forth bickering that prompted the arbitration case in the first place. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 06:07, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I concur with all of this. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 06:19, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Ha, I was holding my breath when I clicked the edit button...pleasantly surprised...anyway, I think everybody already knows what I think about the ArbCom decision, and about Snowspinner's complaint here by extension. Let's hope Jimbo repeals at least part of my restrictions&mdash;those of you who are critical of me should hope for that too, because nobody knows when they're gonna get stuck in a position where they're in trouble for holding a dissenting view about something, and it's better for all of us if we can be comfortable about our discussions. I hope my case does not set a precedent for anything. Everyking 07:42, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I think you can rest assured that arbcom is not bound by precedents, but rather it actually considers the situation at hand. But also, rest assured that no other soul will face an arbitration for expressing dissenting views here incivilly, as long as they don't express dissenting views here incivilly. I, for one, have no qualms about dissenting here, and plenty of others have been able to do so without ending up before arbcom. Now, I think this thread has probably outlived it's usefulness. Isn't there an encyclopedia somewhere around here...? Dmcdevit·t 08:00, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The complicating factor is that it was basically determined that the ruling wasn't about incivility. I apologized for incivility in the past and hadn't done it in a good while. Actually the ruling was about the ArbCom's view that my views were "ignorant" (they say I didn't read evidence, which is untrue), and their view (or at least Raul's view) that my views were not "rational" enough for me to have a right to make them heard. Which is really kinda scary, because if my views are crazy all of us must be crazy&mdash;broadly speaking, I don't think we differ on very many points here, just a few particularly contentious issues. Everyking 08:09, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Same difference. Replace my "incivility" with your "ignorance" and read it again. This isn't the place to be disputing, or really even discussion, the arbcom case. It was a question of proper enforcement. And I think this thread really should die now. Dmcdevit·t 08:38, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * That isn't remotely the same. There is no policy against ignorance, but there is a policy against incivility. Everyking 08:52, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Who said anything about policy? I was talking about reality. Dmcdevit·t 09:04, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * What's the point you're trying to make? Everyking 09:10, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * It's a violation of the spirit, not sure about the letter. That said, I think your response deals with the problem conclusively, and no action is needed as yet: "I'm not sure there's basis to say that the committee is biased in favor of me - the bulk of the evidence presented against me was by John Gohde, who's evidence mostly consisted of personal attacks. Netoholic managed to scrounge up some edits to other people's user pages... Lir had a block to complain about... there was a bit of stuff in the Anthony case... but nobody has ever assembled a body of evidence of abusive behavior on my part. The only block-related evidence I can find that's been submitted was by Lir. You have caught yourself in a Catch-22 - nobody submits evidence against me because the arbcom has never been willing to sanction me, and they've been unwilling to sanction me because nobody has presented them with a shred of evidence. Barely a shred of User:Mirv/Snowy or User:Orthogonal/Snowspinner has ever been presented as evidence. Absent any presentation of evidence, ever, how was the arbcom supposed to rule against me? Phil Sandifer 04:16, 1 December 2005 (UTC)" - David Gerard 14:58, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

MiRRoRMaN
vandalised the AfD debate of a non-notable website twice today, so I got fed up and blocked him for 1 week. This is one of the most annoying vandals I've encountered in a while. After the article is deleted and his block expires, I fully expect him to recreate it, but then we just need to speedy delete it and block him for a longer time. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 18:45, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm, a week is probably a bit over the top. I would recommend a max of 24 hours per offense on the first go, and only start lengthening if he keeps at it. That said, you did an adequate job of warning him before hand, so he's only got himself to blame. - Mgm|(talk) 14:26, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You can always put a template on the page and protect it.  User:Zoe|(talk) 04:18, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Brockville, Ontario vandalism
Our Brockville, Ontario article is undergoing a (rather tame, really) vandalism attack eminating from Queen's University in Canada. It's not a big deal, and several editors have the problem well under control. This edit, however, goes some way to explaining the cause - that editor insinuates that the vandalism is at the instigation of a professor. The pattern of the vandalism (changing statistics to wildly incorrect values) would tend to support, circumstantially, that assertion. This isn't the first time I've seen a similar claim (I forget the previous instance, but I believe it was a college in the US), and I was wondering of those among you who have better understanding of tertiary education in North America might have some ideas about how we might deal with such institutionalised miscreancy. I can't help but wonder whether the same ethics codes that proscribe plagiarism and cheating would also take a rather dim view of an academic organising a concerted assault on what is, after all, an educational charity.

I'm not, really, suggesting we fire off a blazing complaint to said body's ethics committee (we don't really have enough evidence, and that, at least in this case, would be severe overreaction), but vandalising Wikipedia articles to prove that it can be done is rather akin to pushing old ladies over in the street to prove how fragile their bones are.

Can anyone think of a (constructive, ideally) way we can persuade this institution to regard Wikipedia as something to protect, rather than victimise?

(Can I ask, incidentally, that other admins not protect the page: better they try to prove their point on that article, where they can be noticed and reverted, than force them off into other articles.)

Thanks. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:50, 30 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Isn't there some kind of guide to educators and schools? I've stumbled upon it in the past but can't remember where. Perhaps a page/paragraph could be added regarding this? Flcelloguy (A note? ) 23:16, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Schools' FAQ is the closest thing I could find.--Sean|Bla ck 01:45, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Are you thinking of School and university projects? Mindspillage (spill yours?) 02:08, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * That's the one. I assume the previous incident is the University of South Florida] with this guy encouraging students to create patent nonsence on Wiki and claiming it was not nonesence anymore because it is in encyclopedia :> I would strongly suggest that we send some letters to the Queens university explaining that Wikipedia is considered by many a proper source of academic information and whoever gave this lecture is responsible for vandalism encouragment, and thus should rein in his students and issue an apology.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus <sup style="color:green;">Talk 02:50, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Update: I sent them a following message through their contact page. There is little point in sending them more copies of it, but some 'enquires for their responce from concerned citizens' may be useful. It would be nice if they can get to the individuals responsible :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus <sup style="color:green;">Talk 03:09, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Dear Sirs,


 * I am one of the administrators of the Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia.


 * It has came to our attention* that our article on Brockville, Ontario ** "was briefly mentioned in a political sciences lecture in Queen's university on November 29th as an example of how wikipedia can be tampered with, and therefore is not a scholarly source for citing purposes." and is now a target of vandalism, originating from your IP addresses***.


 * We are assuming that the vandals are some of your students attempting to 'prove the point'. We don't know if your lecturer encouraged students to actively vandalise Wiki, but we would appreciate it if you could kindly inform him or her that Wikipedia is not only a source cited in many academic publications****, but that he can observe how efficently we deal with vandalism by seeing that all falsified information entered into this article is removed within few minutes.


 * In addition, we would appreciate it if you could inform the individuals engaged in vandalising our site that their behaviour is not acceptable and goes against any recongnized codes of academic conduct, as their actions are unethical and causing harm to the society.


 * We invite all of your faculty and students interesting in Wikipedia, the largest encyclopedia in the world, to familiarize themselves with how we work**** and ask questions*****.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Brockville.2C_Ontario_vandalism

** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brockville%2C_Ontario

***http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brockville%2C_Ontario&action=history

****http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents

*****http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk


 * Your sincerely


 * Piotr Konieczny
 * Administrator of English Wikipedia
 * User:Piotrus

Piotr meant to say the University of South Florida project. The Indiana University project is a good one. (I'm coordinating it btw.) --best, kevin [kzollman][talk] 16:11, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * If it really is a school project, I think it might be more interesting to report it to the campus newspaper and then let the student journalists sink their teeth into the issue. <sup style="color:green;">Blank <sup style="color:#F88017;">Verse 18:40, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * That's a good one. I will get righ to it :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus <sup style="color:green;">Talk 23:35, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, I am sorry for the wrong quotation - South Florida, not Indiana. Great job, Kzollman. Go Indiana!--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus <sup style="color:green;">Talk 23:35, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Allegation of child abuse, with address and telephone no
Some asshole is back again posting an allegation that United States president and Jimbo engage in child abuse. To use the raping of children as a 'joke' is distasteful. Giving what may be a real address and telephone for more supposed information, is outrageous. This has been done in the edit summary of the GWB page. I have also immediately blocked the perpetrator. The same user has put in this information frequently of late. Variants on the message were entered 5 times on 29 November. Should such information, when it contains an address and telephone (real or made up) be deleted from WP records? And should be user be banned on sight every time they do it? FearÉIREANN \<sup style="color:blue;">(caint) 13:34, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I believe the same thing happened on GWB yesterday, and the affected revisions were deleted from the database. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 13:46, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I think you've done the right thing. This is a very horrible form of personal attack, and it is clearly not a cry for help (which I assumed from this section heading). I'm sure the details can be removed from the page history, by a dev if necessary. --Gareth Hughes 13:50, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * (after two edit conflicts) The phone number and address are offical contact info for Wikimedia, so besides being obnoxious, there is no real privacy concern. So, I'd say just revert, block the troll, and move on.  Dragons flight 13:51, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Can I just add that the same thing happened to me a few days ago, on this very page, though trying to find a developer to delete the offending edits from the database is proving a very stressful and frustrating experience. -- Francs2000 14:15, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Is there a bug open for being able to remove revs without deleting the whole page and restoring all but one? - David Gerard 14:55, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * David, that still leaves the edit summary visible to regular users, through Special:Undelete. --Phroziac . o ºO (mmmmm chocolate!) 15:11, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You mean the edit summary which contains the address and phone number of Wikimedia? Locke Cole 15:22, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * ...the one that accuses jimbo and the president of abusing children together... --Phroziac . o ºO (mmmmm chocolate!) 15:38, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, bleh, thought you were thinking the address was private. You're right, it'd be nice if there were a way to permanently purge deleted edits. Locke Cole 15:45, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * In talking to brion, he told me that there's code half-finished to allow admins to make edits "invisible" or something of the sort, without having to delete the edits themselves. Ral315 (talk) 17:31, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Sounds cool! Locke Cole 02:15, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It's not difficult to do it without this function. Delete all revisions, undelete the existing ones, move them to /delete or something, then undelete the other versions, then revert behind the redirect, then delete the /delete page.  Easy, see? (Just don't forget to unselect "Move talk page", else you pull an fvw and delete Jimbo's talk page)  [[Sam Korn ]] 18:03, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

When this happened the other night, I poked brion on IRC until he changed the edit summary. Just a thought :) Ral315 (talk) 17:31, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't understand IRC hence don't generally like going on there. I tend to get ignored anyway because I'm completely unaware of the etiquette or whatnot.  But if it's still not done soon I might be tempted to hunt down a dev whichever way I can and nag them incessantly... -- Francs2000 [[Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg|25px|  ]] 23:47, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Terrorism article moves
Without going into the full history of the dispute, I wanted to make other admins aware of issues that have been created by moves of an article on American terrorism/Terrorism in the US. The full edit history is currently located at American Terror. However, this is now a redirect to American Terrorism, which itself is a cut-and-paste copy. It appears that an editor wanted to move it to American terrorism (small "t"), but that is currently a protected redirect. I've lost my patience and interest in trying to clean up these moves, so could some other admins please take a look at this situation? Thanks. Carbonite | Talk 15:02, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I second this call. I closed the AFD on American terrorism and would like to limit my participation in this controversy as a disinterested unofficial mediator. I placed the article on RFC (not that it would help much), and have been trying to get both sides to tone down their belligerent rhetoric. Can we get some cooler heads in here? Johnleemk | Talk 15:10, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Just to make it clear how desperate we are, American terrorism was moved to Terrorism by United States of America. Some people then made cut and paste moves back and forth. Then Terrorism by United States of America was cut and paste moved to American Terror which was then cut and pasted to American Terrorism. (And I haven't even gotten to the talk pages.) And all the articles involved each have unique content, which makes them all bitches to fix up. In short, I haven't got the time or nerves for this and I hope somebody else does. Johnleemk | Talk 15:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The page has yet again been moved without discussion, this time to American Terror. Please restore to American terrorism, which is the starting point for any discussion about this article. BrandonYusufToropov


 * 'The "full history of the dispute" to which User:Carbonite refers involves his own failed attempt to delete this article.BrandonYusufToropov


 * (after edit conflict with Brandon:) OK, I reverted the cut&paste move; the article is now at American Terror, with the edit history attached. I have no opinion as to what the correct page title is. I have just reverted to the last full page at that name; I have not included further updates which seem to have been made at American Terrorism and possibly American terrorism. The histories of both those pages are still visible.
 * As there was a revert war at American terrorism because of a previous cut&paste move, I have protected the redirect at American Terrorism, to prevent another improper move being done. As a proper move will have to be done by an admin anyway, I do not feel that this is a problem.
 * I've left the talk pages as an exercise for the reader.Eugene van der Pijll 16:40, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Admin Ramallite requested [] a cooling down period during which this sort of thing would not take place. You ignored that. BrandonYusufToropov 16:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * If you're talking about me: I ignored that because I did not see that. I did not look at the article(s) or at the talk page(s) before I moved the page, I only looked at the edit histories. The full history of the page was at American Terror, therefore that is where the article should be. If one wants the article to be at another place, the edit history has to be moved too. Eugene van der Pijll 16:57, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Maintaining the integrity of the page history is highest priority, as otherwise we can get in hot soup over copyrights. The cooling off period can take place at any version of the name; it won't hurt if the article is kept at the "wrong" name for a few days while we sort this mess out. Johnleemk | Talk 19:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Well said. Maintaining the page history was precisely how I became involved with the whole page move affair (asking an editor not to do a cut-and-paste restore). It seems to make perfect sense to keep it at one location until some sort of consensus is reached. Carbonite | Talk 19:37, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

E4strategies (talk • contribs)
This user created a page advertising a product and website. After I asked them (politely I thought) not to, they created a page of abuse obviously aimed at me (which I deleted - you can probably deduce from my delete log which page it was). I'm signing off now, so cannot continue to monitor - could someone keep an eye on this user please? They might be persistent, as I notice that they have just recreated the advertisement page which I originally deleted. --RobertG ♬ talk 17:45, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've just noticed that I posted the message on their user page, not talk page. Rectified.  I really do need to sign off and take a break, don't I?  Still keep an eye on things, though, please.  --RobertG ♬ talk 17:49, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

193.13.57.225 (talk • contribs)
Strongly suspect that this is a sockpuppet of 80.217.152.161 (talk • contribs), who is currently blocked for 48 hours for violating WP:3RR. Both IPs are in Sweden and are making identical edits to Darod & Hawiye. I don't want to block him myself as I'm involved in an ongoing dispute. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:59, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Asshole on sandbox
Some ass has been putting Jessica Simpson crap on the sandbox!McBeer 19:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I can't open the sandbox right now, but it's meant for tests and experimentation. If there's any objectionabe material there, just revert it or clean the sandbox. - Mgm|(talk) 23:21, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * McBeer is the North Carolina Vandal. See above under User:Remington&therattlesnakes.  Look at his edit history; it's obvious.  He must have found a way around the block on 63.19.128.0/17.  You can see three of his aliases in the edit history to the article (now up for deletion) here: .  Sandbox... King of the Hill... Luanne Platter ... I didn't delete this nonsense redirect yet, so you can have a look --  ... etc.  Antandrus  (talk) 04:28, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Advice on University IP vandalism requested
has been on a bit of a spree since yesterday, mostly with the Fidel Castro article, but recently has expanded their interest to Cool (song). They received a final warning, but I am hesistant to block, as the IP is registered to the University of Georgia. I realize that blocking University IPs has been discussed a million times, but WP:BP seems to me a little fuzzy on what an appropriate length of time might be. I'm seeking advice. Jkelly 20:26, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * hit them with a short block so the person gets the block message. Beyond that contacting the university is the best bet if becomes a long term problem.

Wc3forum.tk
I have deleted this article twice. It is an anti-Semitic, homophobic attack page about an Internet forum. User:Iopq has now re-created it for a third time. I would appreciate another administrator having a word with that user. Jkelly 02:08, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Jimmy Wales
Ugh. I've scraped the junk with Jimbo's personal info off of Talk:Jimmy Wales, but have been informed that there is still lots in Jimmy Wales. Can somebody take a look? Specifically the edits by, , , , , and. Thanks.--Sean|Bla ck 03:37, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I deleted Jimbo. Wow. I feel powerful. :P I restored the last two versions by Jimbo, and I'm restoring the page's history as we speak. However, I need help... I still have 800 diffs to restore! Tito xd (?!? - did you read this?) 03:51, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I know. Why do you think I asked someone else to do it? :).--Sean|Bla ck 03:53, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm doing all the nasty grunt work at the beginning of the page's history. Do you mind looking at the affected edits and starting from the end downwards? Tito xd (?!? - did you read this?) 03:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You got all the edits by the IP's I mentioned. I'll take a look at the beginning of the history, though.--Sean|Bla ck 04:02, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks all clear to me. Jimbo is safe from internet kooks once again!--Sean|Bla ck 04:10, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Sadly, I have to leave, so I need some backup restoring the old versions of the page history (between August and 25 November). Anything else should be reviewed diff-by-diff. Tito xd (?!? - did you read this?) 04:12, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, I restored a whole bunch of revisions. Should be all clear.--Sean|Bla ck 04:28, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks better. That said, I don't know if others think the same, but the vandalism edits you left out (not the ones with Jimbo's personal info) might be in violation of the GFDL. Tito xd (?!? - did you read this?) 06:01, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

(unindenting..) I thought of that, but I only left out vandalism, rollbacks and reverts, thus the attribution of the content doesn't gets lost. But if I'm totally wrong, I invite anyone with the proper knowledge to fix it (and I apologize if that's the case).--Sean|Bla ck 06:10, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys - I know that is a lot of work - and I can't do any of it. Unfortunately this info is still on the website of the poster(s) - I don't know what can be done about that since they don't have any rules. Since it is much less popular - the risk of someone bad finding it is less. Trödel| talk 10:53, 2 December 2005 (UTC)