Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Wiki editor DonFphrnqTaub Persina/Archive 1

Got a totally nonsensical posting from said user on Talk:Freemasonry, and neither the user's page nor talk page make any sort of sense whatsoever. Could somebody look into this to see if it is deliberate? If so I believe it would violate WP:USER. MSJapan (talk) 05:58, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * See Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive299 and Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive328 for some more information on this user. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 06:37, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Notified the user of this conversation. If anyone is interested in the last ANI discussion, a part is copied on his talk page (a GFDL violation?).  If they are still unable to access the page, I would suggest a subpage this time to help.  Always something new here.  -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:57, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's been established that he cannot access this noticeboard because of technical limitations. east. 718 at 07:33, December 16, 2007
 * Well, his problem in the past was due to the size limitation of this particular page. If we go to a subpage, however, it should be easier for him to work with.  On the other hand, will that really accomplish anything? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 09:44, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There is also a rather lengthy conversation regarding this user here.   l'aqùatique      talk   19:52, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * As the user who copied the last discussion to his talk page, I don't like the suggestion that it's a GFDL violation - talk threads are copied around all the time (moving stuff to a subpage is an obvious example, as is archiving) —Random832 21:28, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I thought he might have accidentally done that himself, and was just pointing it to others. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 03:28, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

For some background, he seems to have some mistrust for this site stemming from the page "Wikipedia:Long term abuse/The Doppleganger" (deleted history, copy in his userspace), and seems to think that this is evidence of some deep-seated racism (because the subjects of the picture are black. admins see also deleted diff) and "handicappism" (either due to the fact that one of them formerly suffered from aplastic anemia; or because he considers being twins to be a kind of handicap) on the part of Wikipedia. —Random832 21:35, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Does anyone, administrator or otherwise, know the exact nature of his "handicap"? I'm not asking that private information be displayed for all to see; I just would like to know that an administrator is informed about the type of handicap he supposedly has. I personally have some doubts that his handicap(s) causes some of his editing problems, but I don't want to presume something if I am uninformed. He makes very bizarre edits, often very cryptic with strange word play. And why does he insert long and strange wikilinks in his edit summaries; some of the links do not seem to have any relevance to the topic of the edit. I don't think a handicap would explain why he does that. That sort of editing requires some forethought; it doesn't happen just because someone edits haphazardly without realizing what they're doing. And I also have noticed some very implausible redirects he has created, such as Noni Winona Laura Tomchin Horowitz Ryder redirecting to Winona Ryder. Is it possible he is getting some sort of perverse thrill out of confusing us with his strange edits, but getting away with it because he is supposedly "handicapped"? I know of several Wikipedia editors with a variety of handicaps. None have anything close to the level of "bizzareness" that he seems to have. Ward3001 (talk) 02:55, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest reading the link provided by User:L'Aquatique above. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 03:28, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, you aren't the first person to suggest that, and given that none of us have ever met him personally, it can't be completely ruled out. That being said, he has signed his name as DonFphrnqTaub Persina, who is a real life person: a French/Italian immigrant from New York (now in California) who helped found "CALIF", Communities Actively Living Independent & Free, a disability rights group based in Los Angeles. This would seem to indicate the validity of his claims, if he is indeed who he says he is... and I don't see why he would lie about that sort of thing. The exact nature of his disability is under speculation, has been for quite some time. He did tell an administrator on his talk page (responding to queries if his problems were caused by a malfunctioning screen reader) that he does have a visual disability, but further explained that he has "electronic-disabilities, physical-disabilities, emotional-disabilities, cognitive-disabilities" etc and later said, "I do know that you had expected that my primary disability, my severest disability, would be visual in nature. Now, although I currently have my machine set @ twenty pica, that is far from being my severest symptom. It is far down on the list, one of many thousands of symptoms." So far, further speculation by others on this part have met with significant anger on his part, at one point he said "You proffer so many diagnoses, what do you bill MediCAid & MediCare??", as well as " would like people to quit calling me, &/or my comments, messages:"brain-damage"...".
 * I've been involved with this case for some time, and over that time we have come up with several solutions, however all have simply required too much effort on our part to be at all feasible. However, one thing he has said has always haunted me: "The administrators, other leaders, of wikimedia, should set a better standard than: shoot-first, delete-first, destroy-first, accuse-first, label-first, categorize-first,.... When you write that way, how do you expect those of us struggling to be better????"   l'aqùatique      talk   04:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I tried to work with him or her once myself, and it can be challenging. The problem is made worse because some people, without knowing about Hopiakuta's limitations, may take it as someone being weird for the sake of weird, or worse, forgetting AGF and thinking someone is messing around. I'll readily admit that it was my first though, since it was just so darn odd looking at first. I finally figured out that there was just some sort of off-communications, and we sort of figured out what was going on. I don't know what can be done to help. Maybe a bunch of us watchlist Hopiakuta's page, to watch out for confused queries Hopiakuta may get? Lawrence Cohen 18:53, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I noticed that someone offered to adopt him. Was he open to that? Ward3001 (talk) 19:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * So far all the adoption offers are from people who didn't really seem to read his pages, and thought he just needed to learn the rules and then it would be okay.   l'aqùatique      talk   20:33, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

(unindent)For those who haven't watchlisted the user talk page, he has said this, which I think is important:

"Being that my birthday is roughly a weak aweigh, uh, a week away, is it feasible that this relationship would be less rough f/ this new year? If this website could truly get-on w/ disability-access, universal-design, then possibly my feelings like wæklypædia could go from facetious insult, to nostalgic sarcasm.

If wikipedia:administrators' noticeboard/User:hopiakuta could move to something similar to wikipedia:administrators' noticeboard/wikieditor:DonFphrnqTaub_Persina, then, conceivably, that could remind people that they're writing about either a person, or, even, a human-being, if I qualify, rather than, merely, a screenname. If you would paste your past few comments there, then, possibly, I might actually be able to read it. Well, it could contribute, anyhow."


 * Revision as of 00:16, 18 December 2007 (edit) (undo)
 * L'Aquatique (Talk | contribs)
 * (quote)
 * Newer edit →
 * Line 25: 	Line 25:


 * l'aqùatique     talk


 *   L' Aquatique       talk to me    00:55, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * wikipedia:administrators%27 noticeboard/User:hopiakuta
 * < http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=wikipedia:administrators%27_noticeboard/Wiki_editor_DonFphrnqTaub_Persina&action=edit&section=0 >.

I am having difficulty deciphering who has said what; I think that this makes this simpler to read. I would like to know, & I do not, what it is that causes a content table  @ this specific point, rather than elsewhere.

Thank You,

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 13:45, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Preferences and skin
Could changing his skin in preferences possibly help? Lawrence Cohen 00:21, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. He hasn't reported that the problems stem from anything that could be fixed via a skin change. We are currently working with him on learning how to archive his own user page so it doesn't crash.   l'aqùatique      talk   02:33, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I have requested 12341 for him. —Random832 15:56, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Unicode
Can someone else verify that versions of iCab running on classic MacOS have unicode trouble, and get a User-Agent string pattern for the developers? —Random832 16:05, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I found an email for the developer of iCab, if you'd like to shoot him an email with these questions: . All 'da best...    l'aqùatique      talk   17:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Done, I'll file a bug if I get a response. —Random832 21:20, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

On a positive note
I've looked through some of his recent mainspace contributions, and probably over 90% of what I've clicked on have been entirely good edits. This user is doing an impressive amount of work on disambiguations and redirects, and adding appropriate wikilinks to longer articles as well. —Random832 21:41, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You have no idea how glad I am to hear that. Throughout this ordeal I've been continually told that "there's no hope"... I'm glad they were wrong. Nice job, DonFphrnq (Can I just call you Don?)!   l'aqùatique      talk   03:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

–
Well, okay, I've finally just read it, this afternoon, 01:00, Greenwich  being 17:00,  Pacific standard.

Whereas much of it is nasty, rude, it sort-of ends somewhat complimentarily,.....

Most prominent of my symptomology  would be  pain, then  weakness. To truly go into detail is much too painful, including that my fingers frequently  lock-up, as do every other  joint,  muscle.

If you would see me in person, if I do not have the wheelchair, or a  walking-cane, I might not "appear"  disabled:  invisible-disability; however, you might hear my joints crack. If I would do significant heavy-lifting, significant  walking, you might, by the  end of the day, perceive significant changes in my  arms &/or  legs. In this case "end of the day" is not that silly clich%c3%a9.

In my current city, it is, in my opinion, very  hazardous to employ a wheelchair,....: narrow two-lane street[s]; horrific  sidewalks; eighty m. p. h. in the thirty-to-fifty;  dark;.....

Is there anyone in North America, on this  website, who is not  telephone-disabled?? Otherwise, explaining all of my comments is simply too difficult.

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 01:00, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

< http://calif-ilc.org/about.html >.
There is so much confusion,  misinterpretation,  misreading, about me, that, well, @ least some of it is certainly not directly attributable to anything that I've written; here is the actual text of < http://calif-ilc.org/about.html >:

Street, 2nd Floor • Los Angeles, CA 90014 • Tel.: (213) 627-0477 • TDD: (213) 623-9502 Issues Contact Us and select CALIF Events a piece of the overall and continuing story of the Disability Rights Movement in Los Angeles. The founders of CALIF not only come from a very diverse group of people with disabilities and ethnic backgrounds but also from different Disability Rights Activist groups like ADAPT, Californians for Disability Rights, California Network of Mental Health Clients, Special Services for Groups and AARP. Lillibeth Navarro, ADAPT activist is of Asian descent coming from the Philippines; the late Armentres Ramsay and her husband James, are African Americans from Arkansas; Audrey Harthorn is of German origin from Van Nuys. DonFphrnqTaub Persina is from New York with roots in France and Italy; Chuck Shin is a Korean immigrant who moved to Los Angeles from Minnesota; Jerry Davila-Castro is from Spain. Among the co-founders are Doreen Moore, who is a senior from New Zealand; Sylvia Drzewiecki, Sylvia Davis, and Luthecia Martin from Los Angeles; and Naomi Kageyama from Japan. There were other collaborators, too numerous to mention but through whose unwaivering support and faith, CALIF has come to fore. Among the enduring fund supporters of our efforts were the Department of Rehabilitation, the Department of Education, Rehabilitation Services Administration, the Catholic Campaign for Human Development and the Liberty Hill Foundation. In-Home Support Services Recipients And Providers Sharing (IRAPS) project of Special Services for Groups (SSG). Lillibeth Navarro was working as IRAPS Project Director in 1999 and also as an Empowerment Team Leader for the California Foundation of Independent Living Centers (CFILC) when the idea fired her up to start an Independent Living Center. (SCRS) in Downey on visit from Department of Rehabilitation’s Jackie Tatum. She bewailed at the lack of Independent Living Services in the Central Los Angeles area. As an impulse, Lillibeth said to her, “We’ll start an ILC (independent living center)!” The idea sounded outrageous at the time but the challenge was presented. Lillibeth vouched the idea to Armentres, who initially thought the proposal was too much. bursting with energy, commitment to the cause, innovation and creative ideas. The founders helped Service Employee International Union (SEIU) push for the creation of the Personal Assistance Services Council (PASC) and had been successful at its establishment. The founders took upon themselves to be watchdogs over anything that had to do with disability civil rights, and the issues they supported and pushed for—whether it was IHSS or transportation, often made enduring systems change impact. 9th Street, on the 3rd floor, a little room, barely 320 square feet that could accommodate only a little reception area and a main suite where workers were packed like sardines. For breathing space, Ernie Powell of American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) was kind enough to offer the AARP Conference Room on Wilshire Blvd. at the then AARP headquarters, to provide CALIF with conference room space. Victoria Lim, Zenaida Deocampo, Evan Levang, Rosie Williams, along with Nora and Nang David were generous with their time and gave volunteer support as Lillibeth Navarro began forming the founding Board of Directors for CALIF. (founding director of Western University's Center for Disability Issues and the Health Professions); Richard Devylder (Dayle McIntosh Center); Cassandra Malry; Jeanette Hill-Yonis and her partners at Latham & Watkins assisted CALIF’s approval of its 501 C3 non-profit status. 2002, CALIF moved next door on 849 S. Broadway Ave., at the Mezzanine level where CALIF stayed for two years before the building was sold by Medi Bolour. CALIF promptly moved to the MALDEF building at its current location at 634 S. Spring Street on June 30th, 2004, its current location. vision of full inclusion, equality and civil rights for all people with disabilities, especially in the underserved ethnic communities of Los Angeles. How does one get there? common but compelling experience. Defining moments varied from a successful job interview, obtaining affordable and accessible homes to the devastation of discrimination on disabled people. At CALIF, the founders and staff want to bring hope to different communities – to give them the chance to write with their own lives, their own version of the Disability Story. communities of people with disabilities who are leaders with a lot of caring and integrity, who are servants and hard workers; who are excellent team members who appreciate the Disability story; who know their civil rights and who are creative and resourceful about everything; who know their communities like the palm of their hand and who would not take “no” for an answer. If you answer YES to this challenge, then you are part of the CALIF story and you will continue this tradition for the generations still to come. Thank you!” homepage | contact | html | css | © 2007 C A L I F | Design by www.mitchinson.net | This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License
 * Communities Actively Living Independent & Free • 634 South Spring
 * Home Columns Newsdesk About CALIF Services About ILCs Legislative
 * Projects ILS Training Community Calendar Links Newsletter Voting
 * About C A L I F
 * To view more photos About CALIF, please hover over About CALIF link
 * Communities Actively Living Independent & Free's (CALIF) story is
 * The founders were all part of CALIF’s mother organization--the
 * It happened on a day at Southern California Rehabilitation Services
 * The idea seemed outlandish but the small IRAPS group was just
 * CALIF’s first office was housed at the IRAPS office on Broadway and
 * Start-up meetings commenced on a regular basis in September 2000.
 * Collaborations with Dan Clark (Dept. of Rehabilitation); Brenda Premo
 * CALIF officially became a corporation in September 2001. In February
 * Lillibeth Navarro and the original founding Board of CALIF had a
 * Each individual with a disability who started CALIF was moved by a
 * The Founders of CALIF have this united message: “Let us create
 * Lillibeth Navarro
 * Founder and Executive Director
 * Communities Actively Living Independent & Free

If "...a French/Italian   immigrant  from  New York  (now in  California) who helped found "CALIF", Communities Actively Living Independent & Free,..." means that I had immigrated from Long Island, to  Arizona  &  Alta California, w/  racial   roots in  France,  Italy,  Ireland,  Israel  { Palestine,  Levant,   Canaan,   Retjenu,  Djahy,  Caanan,  Philistine,  Phoenicia,  Ph%c5%93nicia,  Yisrael,  Isra%c4%93l,  Isra%c3%abl,  %c4%b0srail,   Syria_Palaistin%c4%93,   _Palaistin%c4%93,   ash-Sham,  Bilad_al-Sham,  Sham,  Cham,  shami,  Mashriq,  Mashreq,  Mashrek,  Fertile_Crescent,  Levante,   Levent,   Jund_Filastin,   Falastin,  Palestina  },  Germany,  that  would be one thing; but, if it,..... I've not been to Europa, nor much past  Orient_Point, nor  Montauk_Point, on anything more substantial than an "outboard", nor, even, to Avalon, Santa_Catalina_Island%2c_California. In the outboard era I had been closer to the size of the propeller; now, I'm closer to the size of the  lighthouse, heavyhouse?


 * help_talk:archiving_a_talk_page
 * help_:archiving_a_talk_page


 * There should be a page of: latino-latin-Lazio-Latium_controversy_dispute.


 * latino_%28demonym%29
 * Latin_peoples_%28linguistic%29
 * latin_%28demonym%29
 * latino_%28disambiguation%29
 * latin_%28disambiguation%29
 * Lazio
 * Latium

That is my response to: "...French/Italian  immigrant,....".

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 09:00, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Someone, purchase a telephone, please.

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 09:00, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I misread it, I'm sorry. It was not intended as any sort of insult. About the telephone, though. You must keep in mind that while you may be able to communicate properly over the phone, others perhaps cannot. Many users here are not in America, or do not feel comfortable speaking over the telephone with someone they don't know. Some of us have our own little disabilities...   l'aqùatique      talk   09:20, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank You.

I am sincerely attempting to negotiate; I do hope that I have demonstrated that effort, many times over.

I do tend to believe in the various edits that I assert; even if my perceptions are unique, well, maybe, that is added reason why a significant portion of them are necessary: variation is crucial:

clich%c3%a9 motto  When,  please????!!!!:
..               ..

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.

Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge.

In these quotes, there is no mention of when this website would actually do any of that; they do say "...single human being,...", "...single person on the planet,...", so, not married?

Is this the year that these platitudes would transfer from  public-relations  advertizing  to actual  implementation? Or, is it all to remain mirage?

Regarding "...able to communicate properly over,...",... my capability is not necessarily consistent on any medium; it is one of a very small number of ways in which I am medium. While scribing this, about medium, I tried eclectic,  wiktionary : eclectic, &, I was surprised by  heteroclite,  wiktionary : heteroclite, which, well,.... could I be both?

Thank You,

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 10:15, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

'every single' is a standard idiomatic phrase meaning no exceptions - it's kind of redundant really - in any case it's not intended as 'single' in the meaning of 'unmarried'. —Random832 14:52, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

"I would like to know, & I do not, what it is that causes a content table @ this specific point, rather than elsewhere." -- When there is no tag, the table of contents appears before the first section header by default. I have added to the top of this page, moving the table of contents. —Random832 15:02, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

== oy, not the disambiguation  that I'd been searching for,..[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard%2FWiki_editor_DonFphrnqTaub_Persina&diff=178959301&oldid=178930074. ] == I do know that the way that I think, &,  therefore%e2%88%b4, write, is the bulk of the reason f/ this actual page; I was, actually, looking to  disambiguate  the  timeline   intent. The grammar  comment had been, sort of, what some people would call {idiom|metaphor}  wallpaper; however, w/ so many  computers &  contributors, much work should be invested in:


 * achieving these  mottos
 * editing these mottos

Both should be sought  simultaneously.

I do suspect that this is the moment to introduce a word:

myofascial
&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 17:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * < http://google.com/search?q=%22myofascial%22+%22fibromyalgia%22+%22varicose%22+%22%22++psychological++emote++ >.
 * disability-access
 * universal-design
 * disability-accessible
 * disability-accessibility


 * Experience: mixed-emotion: regarding these pages:


 * "I feel, somewhat like the man who was being ridden out of town on a rail. Someone asked him how he liked it, and he said that if it were not for the honor of the thing, he would just as soon walk."


 * riding_the_rail
 * run_out_of_town_on_a_rail

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 18:00, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Signatures
DonFphrnq- I noticed your comment about having trouble telling who wrote what. Would it be helpful if we put our signatures both at the beginning of our comment and the end, like this: l'aqùatique     talk  If I had something more to say I would put it here but I don't, so... l'aqùatique     talk   19:22, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

If it's two full-screens down, especially much more, I often add a sectional-segmented-title. Where the discussion is extremely complex, including a full-signature, including  Greenwich, in the title might help, such as w/ a large amount of  interspersed commentary,  contrary   chronology, & other  mix-match.

< http://akas.imdb.com/find?s=all&q= > & wiki   have two of the better board software versions; but, I do wish that we could merge elements of each, & then throw-in some other extras,....

Those two wikimedia   clich%c3%a9s are | is my primary priority.

I do not, as yet, know how to qualify f/:


 * "...trying to do a good job on their article,..."

It does seem that that standard is only available f/ those closely associated w/ a junior high school:


 * children
 * parents
 * teachers
 * administrators
 * custodians
 * next-door-neighbors

In many other cases, scribing about one's own entity is discouraged, particularly where the data is not correct.

Is is my impression that I'd inserted aquatique  immediately below where you had pasted my comment; I might be mistaken.

I'd once scribbled:


 * ** As for telephone-conversation,...:

Would Jerome_Lester_Horwitz  say "soitenly  {certainly}"?? Name any telephone in the fifty states, or New Columbia.

Are you aware that "HopiaKuta" is a turtle??

That "hopiakuta" & "kutahopia" are two of the screennames employed by "DonFphrnqTaub Persina"??

{"Don", "Mister Persina",...}

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 01:45, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

We are each employing h2o   screennames.

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 20:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * (From   l'aqùatique      talk  ) Well, you are certainly welcome to insert the information that you did below the quote that I posted of yours whenever you need to. Our main goal here is to make it so that you can follow our conversation and contribute. I do, however, have one little suggestion. During your time here, you are likely going to run into people who are not aware of your situation and may be confused by such bits of text. You may be able to help other users to understand by posting a short notice on your user page that explains some of the ways that they can make what they write easier for you to understand. In fact, there is a good chance that there are other users out there in the same boat, and you may be able to help them to contribute as well as you do, does that make sense?    l'aqùatique      talk   20:47, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

==   l'aqùatique      talk      L' Aquatique    '   talk'' to me    &#91;&#91; hopiakuta  Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 22:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC)''' == Dear " l' ":

That first sentence does confuse somewhat; but, the above is one of zillions of ways of doing what I'd described in one of my comments: there are many potential variations on that.

On a complex board, & this one is not yet extremely convoluted, though many other pages require hours of useless sifting: having Greenwich time  @ top & bottom is helpful in figuring chronology.

Considering that I have two versions of your short, though extremely complex, sig, w/ my sig, which is longer, yet not as complex, well, that makes a long title: if I were to add a few more words, well, oy,....

As f/ my own page, people have already complained about my warning.

To compare mine & yours to others':

Your sig is only a few characters different than your screenname, so I am capable of locating it in the  historylog; working  control-f  on your sig is somewhat boggling, but,.... it does seem similar to the history. That is good.

Mine has the exact screenname, w/ a reminder to sign, as that ridiculous signbot  program refuses to sign very often, & in other cases it, frequently, signs a small correction that I make, intruding where I might add two words that I'd previously neglected.

Much better than signbot, for these reasons, & others, would be something that adds a sig @ the bottom, as soon as someone presses discussion-edit, which would permit a person to delete it, if they leave it, it would not appear jumbled-into text-paragraphs.

As for screennames that do not resemble signatures, yikes, @ least four characters in common, oy vey,..... horrific.

&, that is the warning that I do have on my page, &, which derives complaints.

What is most important, is the "when" of those wikimedia  cliches. If that were true, then they would negotiate w/ even the severest vandal, if they were all willing to participate in negotiation.

How about this?

How many people here are willing to work on a concise, easy-to-read, disability-access policy,....?

That is, one that would incorporate many issues, as concisely as feasible?

All of the major headlines, if feasible, should fit onto one screen, or, otherwise, as close as feasible.

&, get to implementing those cliches.

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 22:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * (from   l'aqùatique      talk   07:12, 20 December 2007 (UTC)) A few things... You are right, the bot that does automatic signings has some serious flaws- such as the fact that people can opt out of automatic signing, which I think is wrong. The only reason I can think of to not sign your posts is if you have something to hide... and that's not a very good reason.
 * Complex signatures can be problematic as well, I agree. I have found that a lot of people get very attached to their signatures, don't want to change them, even if they are unreadable. If you run into someone that has a screen name like that, don't hesitate to give me their name. I'll drop a line and see if they'll listen to me.
 * Finally, have you seen WP:ACCESS? It is perhaps more drawn out than it needs to be, and we're working on getting it made into a policy so that people have to follow it, but it's a work in progress. It is an excellent idea to have a condensed, one page version that we can use as a reference.   l'aqùatique      talk   07:12, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

wikipedia:accessibility ;;;; h2o   screennames?
You may have misunderstood; signbot signs where I correct a couple of words in an old message, directly in the middle of the antique  comment.

If the signbot would be replaced w/ something that truly operates, I would alter this signature to something festive, or informative regarding some other  issue:

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 10:25, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

_____________________________________

Much better than signbot, for these reasons, & others, would be something that adds a sig @ the bottom, as soon as someone presses discussion-edit, which would permit a person to delete it; if they leave it, it would not appear jumbled-into text-paragraphs. _____________________________________

I've experimented w/ several signatures designed to remind people to sign.

The one problem w/ your sig is that it does disrupt control-f; however, it does resemble the  historylog.


 * Access examples needed?


 * category_talk:redirects_to_Wiktionary, please do compare history, as well as the fact that when I create something, it is deleted.  Others recreate  it: oo, fine.


 * help_talk:archiving_a_talk_page
 * help_:archiving_a_talk_page
 * "...trying to do a good job on their article,..."???? How might I qualify f/ that status?  Are all of you claiming that I never try?  Truly offensive policy.


 * Why do some people get one reg., while others get another one?

h2o  screennames?

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 10:25, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The best explanation I can give for "Trying to do a good job on their article" is that for some people, what they contribute to Wikipedia could be considered a legacy. Each and every one of us, including and especially you, are part of something great. A project to collect and make available to all the collective of human knowledge? But it is, of course, as you have mentioned, very much a work in progress. At this point, there are many problems, including quite a few accessibility ones. However, we have come a long way from when the site was first launched, and we've got a long way to go before it's perfected. Maybe it will never be perfected. But we're all here to do our little part in making it better, and thus statements like that one. I don't think people are saying that because they think you aren't trying to make the article better, they're simply not thinking about that at all.   l'aqùatique      talk   19:26, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think what he's trying to say is that when he had a complaint about article content (albeit a minor one), he was rebuffed with a statement that the people writing it are "trying to do a good job on their article" yet his own edits are met with persistent and repetitive assumptions of bad faith. And he does have a valid point—Random832 20:55, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. I wish I had advice, but I don't. It is a very real and valid problem...   l'aqùatique      talk   21:02, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

wikipedia:sign_your_posts_on_talk_pages
My questions are rarely worth responding to; I'm just the disabled one, that is consensus  as  nonsense  &  irrelevant { Should my screenname be "nonsense", or "monkey w/ typewriter", or "irrelevant", or "delete these comments"?}:

< http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Signatures&diff=92067721&oldid=92064506 >.

Impossible signatures? Try these:

< http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Signatures&diff=93344044&oldid=93271428 >.

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 11:10, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Sinebot
(User:Random832 15:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)) If sinebot is adding a signature when you're altering an existing comment, it's probably because it thinks you're adding a line. Most comments by other people are only one paragraph, so the bot assumes that if a line or paragraph is being added that it's a new comment. If you want to make sure it won't add a signature to a particular edit you are making, you can include "!nosine!" or "!nosign!" in the edit summary line. Or, you can opt out entirely, and it will never sign for your posts, User:SineBot has an explanation how. —Random832 15:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 14:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 14:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 14:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I had been hoping that this "" would result in accurate time; it does not seem to. I would've found it helpful, if it had.

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 14:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

It does seem to note the most recent save, which is helpful in a different way; please do not delete it.

Thank You,

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 14:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)