Wikipedia:Adopt-a-user/Adopter's Area/To-Do List/Future

This page (Adopt-a-User/Adopter's Area/Future) is for discussion of the Adopt-a-User program's future. It will have a major link form the main talk page so that no-one will miss the discussion. Ideally comments about the future should be left here. Any comments left on the main talk page may be transferred here instead.

Things to do

 * I suggest we come up with a list of things to do, so that the project can have some direction and progress goals. I will start with three suggestions, please add, remove, comment as necessary. Thanks Lethaniol 15:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * 1) To finish the adopter criteria at this page.
 * 1.a.: Decide whether the "rules" are actually rule or guidelines, if we want them. Also figure out how strict, how to enforce them, how to decide "punishment"/"reward", etc.
 * 1.b.: Decide when to start to enforce them and create deadline for discussion to end.
 * 2.a.: If rules/guidelines don't become accepted, decide how this project is to be run
 * 2.b.: Repeat: #:1.a.:, #:1.b.: , and (maybe) #:2.b.: until majority is happy.
 * 1) To increase Adoption awareness - by advertisement e.g. Wikipedia Newsletter, word of mouth and links to the project from places where new users will see e.g. help pages, welcome template etc...
 * To increase number of adoptees to over 100 and adopters to over 50, currently 68 adoptees and 30 adopters at 15:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Figure out how to advertise and increase numbers.
 * 1) Maybe create a page or common problems for new users and a place where a new user can post a question to all adopters. Kind of like the Help Desk or the { but specifically to us (also  have specific help instead of leaving a template on their talk).  On this page we should have the question, the answer, and other comments or further questions posed which stemmed from this question.  We should also have the answer left on the new user's talk page to make sure they get it.
 * We probably should tell them how to respond to the user who helped them here because I've met some new users who didn't know how to do this.
 * From an adoptee POV, what about naming the adoptee help desk ?  Appropriate, and easy to remember....  NDCompuGeek 20:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting idea but would be just replacing template which works well because of the constantly watched IRC channel. We have got the numbers yet. May be easy to get adoptees to add a query to a Adoptee Help page - and as we can add to watchlist - anyone can reply. Hmmm... will think about it Lethaniol 16:52, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Select a leader,if we haven't already, though I think we agree with Lethaniol being the leader. Also, confirm the name, some concerns are posted above or the archive (see below) about this.

Criteria.
Looking at the Wikipedia talk:Adopt-a-User/Criteria/Discussion fo exact rules, it seems we can all agree that:
 * Adopters should be available often to help their adoptee(s).
 * Adopters do not have to be members of Esperanza, Concordia, or Kindness Campaign.
 * Adopters should not be current adoptees. (added current as I think that is what is meant Lethaniol 12:44, 6 December 2006 (UTC))
 * Adoptees only need to have one Adopter (though they can have more).

I think also clear that agreement on the following but with the specific to be sorted:


 * Adopters should not have any recent blocks or too many vandal warnings. (need to decide on length of time/number)
 * Adopters should have a minimum number of edits (need to decide on number and if location important)

Discussion

 * Have written up these decisions on Wikipedia talk:Adopt-a-User/Criteria/Discussion fo exact rules, please read and comment if you oppose. Lethaniol 12:44, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Have added a note to that on the page, see that one if you want. &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  21:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * For the block guideine, I say we should have it somwhere from 45 days-3 months, though probably on the lower side. &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  21:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it's time to make a decision on the criteria found at Wikipedia talk:Adopt-a-User/Criteria/Discussion fo exact rules. The criteria listed have been there for a while, longer than the original 15 days, and there seems to be a consensus on most, if not all. Anyone else think it's ok? Just wanted to make sure-  Cat tleG irl  '' talk 05:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  17:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I as well.-- SU IT  21:36, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree. –- kungming·  2  (Talk)  05:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've gone through the page and have done either an approved/not approved/no consensus 'ruling', however feel free to discuss it more here- we also need some more input on the no consensus ones. We also need more input on Note 1.  Cat tleG irl  '' talk 10:02, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks CattleGirl - I hope I have not stepped on your feet but I have basically archived the two current discussions, written up the consensus points and started debates on the specific issues that need to be resolved. If I have done wrong then add/change the info.


 * So people please go to Wikipedia talk:Adopt-a-User/Criteria, vote on the proposed criteria, raise any objections, and hopefully we can put this baby to bed soon. Cheers Lethaniol 13:54, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Leader and hierarchy
As for choosing a "leader", who says we need one in the first place? Is Jimbo our leader? Wikis are collaborative and work by compromise and consensus. I don't think anything needs to change just because Flameviper, or any of us, gets busy. --Daniel Olsen 00:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree (though I am flattered Randfan) - I don't believe that we should have a leader, or any hierarchy at all, and we should (like we have been anyway) aim for consensus. We need to have a group of users though who are happy to help out with the admin of Adopt-a-user - I being one of them am happy to any (but not all) of the dog's work :):) Lethaniol 12:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I too think we should follow this but I had afriend who was looking over my shoulder as I was doing this and sugggested that I pt it down. He saidwe don't have to follow it but it didn't hurt to put it in there.  I agreed and added, I don't think it should be decided by any one person and didn't see any harm so I added it.  Of course that is quite hypocritical,on my part, due to the criteria thing :)...  &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  21:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The point is that we don't have a leader per se, as much as we have a very active member of the program who contributes a large amount of content. So the "leader" could be interpreted to be either me, Lethaniol, Randfan, or Daniel Olsen. And I see the point of banishing hierarchy... see what happened to Esperanza. Essentially, there is no leader. ~  Flame vip  e  r  20:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

After adopting...
Should we have something specific to do once we've adopted? I've been asking my adoptees if they need any help, so far with no reply, but maybe, as been mentioned before, we should have a certain page for questions as well as the adopters' talk pages. The only problem with this is that it would quickly become something like the Newcomers' Help Page, so what would be different about this page that would merit its creation? This also gets over the sort of awkwardness of personally contacting someone. Just an idea-  Cat tleG irl  '' talk 02:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I, too support this idea (see aove for suggestion). &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  02:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Help space for Adopters
Hi guys - I am going to act on this soon unless there is some major issues.

I think a subpage where Adopters can put there experiences down, how they dealt with it, and whether anyone has any suggestions would be a good. I think this should be separate from the talk page, so that it is easier to navigate and does not get archived (would be able to manually sort it into different categories of problems).

In case any one is interested - I will be adding my dealings with suspected sockpupper adoptees - my first adoptee was banned for being a sockpuppet of a user who was banned for issueing death threats, my third adoptee is in the process of having a sockpuppet action gaining force againist them. Ah what a life... See my talk page :) Lethaniol 18:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I like this idea (maybe we should have this and the thing above combined) and I have two adoptees (friends in real life, actually) and I want to help them but there never on. Should I "drop" them?  This should probably be moved to that page.  Oh, and it shold be called something like: wikipedia talk:Adopt-a-User/archives/diary/experiences and if the proposed page above is to be created but under another name it should probably be: wikipedia talk:Adopt-a-User/archives/diary/questions and answers.  &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  00:45, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I was logged out onto a shaed network IP. &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  00:45, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey I don't think there is any hard and fast rules as yet. Personally if I had 2 relatively inactive users, I would keep them on as Adoptees, and adopt others if I wanted. I don't think it is about how many adoptions you have, but about being able to help out the adoptee out appropriately. So if you take on a high-maintenance Adoptee it would be irresponsible and unfair to take on another until that one finds it feet. If you have x mature Adoptee who only need occasional help you may feel you can take on another. Hope that helps


 * I will add the issue you have brought up to such a page when it gets created - I think this is the sort of thing that will happen often. Cheers Lethaniol 00:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks! &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  01:05, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think these are some really good ideas. If you've adopted users that are relatively inactive then there's nothing that should impair your 'adopting ability' (trying to think of a better term, hopefully you know what I mean) with more users. I agree that we should have a page for our experiences-  Cat tleG irl  '' talk 02:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm going to start a page, as it seems to be a very good idea- find it at Adopt-a-User/experiences . Edit it there- and you may like to add more of an introduction as well-  Cat tleG irl  '' talk 02:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I thought it would be a good idea to create space where all the information for Adopters can be found see Adopt-a-User/Adopter's Area, the Experiences bit is a sub page of this Adopt-a-User/Adopter's Area/Experiences Lethaniol 13:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC) Now is this a good idea, or should all this information / links just be on the mainpage - i.e. is the subpage unnecessary? Cheers Lethaniol 14:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think we should keep it this way, though I must say, I would have liked it to ention "Diary" because that is a place where one is able to record their experiences... But this diary would be accessible to the public so they can use it as an "advise column".  Should we sort it (meaning the Experiences page) all into "Adoptee issues", "Adopter issues", "Both" or something like that.  For example, what we have currently could be cassified under "Adoptee isssues"....  &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  21:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Welcome templates
The suggestion that a link to WP:ADOPT be included in the welcome templates has been suggested here by several users over several months. But it has not happened. I cannot see anywhere any negative comment, so why hasn't it happened? Who ultimately can decide the format of major templates such as these? And have they been asked to change them? Or can they be asked? So many questions, so few answers.--Anthony.bradbury 00:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * See Help talk:Contents and Template talk:Welcome. --Daniel Olsen 06:01, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, if you've got your own custom welcome template (like I do), you can of course at it there. - Che Nuevara  06:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Have asked on both pages - the Help:Contents can be edited by anyone, but the Template:Welcome seems to be Admin only. Could probably do with some help in the discussion at Help talk:Contents Lethaniol 11:26, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Also see discussion at Village pump %28proposals%29 which Anthony.B start up, cheers Lethaniol 15:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Che, we haven't all got our own customised welcome page, though I may come and steal yours (unless you object). I would like to see the prompt included routinely on every welcome template.--Anthony.bradbury 20:45, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If you look at the mainpage WP:ADOPT have made a slightly altered welcome template for use by anyone, though I would not suggest using subst as of yet Template:Adopt-a-User Welcome Cheers Lethaniol 00:05, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Adoption or Sponsor or Mentor?
I think this is a great idea, but I have concern about the choice of the word adoption over sponsor. Adoption, in the sense of building families, is a permanent act. It creates what are known to some adoptive parents and children as forever families. I'd rather see the term Sponsor used. (I get the same way when people talk about adopting members of the military who are deployed overseas as well.) Just my two cents. --EarthPerson 00:16, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think changing the name of the program could have some strange consequences, but the title of the person (id est: Adopter/Adoptee) could work. I think Mentor might work...  &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  00:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It's funny that you suggested Mentor. I thought of the same thing not five minutes after I'd posted, but was already done for the day.  --EarthPerson 15:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the name's fine- I see what you mean about how adoption implies more of a permanent thing, but on the project page we can see it's not. I think we should leave it how it is, however I must say we can perhaps play up the mentoring side of the project rather than the adopting side.  Cat tleG irl  '' talk 02:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your thoughts. I wish I'd found this earlier and could have suggested it earlier.  --EarthPerson 15:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with CattleGirl. We could change some of the templates/welcome messages etc... to explain that adoption is a mentoring program - but I am not sure about changing titles like Adoptee to Mentee and Adopter to Mentor. Lethaniol 15:43, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm good with that. &mdash; ¡ Rand  fan  !  21:30, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Adoptee's Area
Once I have finished making the Adoper's area, and unless there is any major objections, I will start making an Adoptee's Area. I think the sort of Sections that should be made are:


 * 1) What is Adoption all about or how to get the best out of your Adopter.
 * 2) Adoptee's Resource and Help page - with links to useful resources for new users as well as section to ask questions if their Adopter is unavailable.
 * 3) Adoptee's Experience page - a place for adoptee's to post their experiences - what they found useful/not, how to get most out of experience, how to improve program.

Any other ideas....

Cheers Lethaniol 18:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That's a great idea, Lethaniol! I'm all for it-  Cat tleG irl  '' talk 01:05, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Great idea!! 76.188.7.83 01:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions and feedback from an adoptee
As an adoptee by Lethaniol the uber-adopter himself, I got a great deal of help and encouragement from him. I guess the Number One thing an adoptee should remember is that there is really no question to simple or to involved for your adopter. I have asked Lethaniol some embarrasingly simple questions, I have also asked him some questions that have almost stumped him. I suspect that he had to get some help with templates, but there's no evidence of it.... 8^)


 * Help with template - ha - good old fashioned guessing more like :):)

As for the "Adoptee's Experience page", I wholly support the idea. Remembering that we're newbies, some of the suggestions might be somewhat simplistic (like: have online "classes", or have a dedicated IRC channel [with a tutorial on how to use IRC]....) to involved (like: develop a real-time way to converse with the adopter, possibly through MSN or Yahoo Chat or something like that, or have a database of prewritten answers to the common questions, something along the lines of a FAQ but maybe more involved....). Some users are newbies to the Internet in general, some of us have a lot of Internet experience but are new to the Wiki community. -Dan (AKA NDCompuGeek 10:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC))


 * Thanks ND - I will copy this over to the Adoptee's Experience page soon - am currently working on Adopt-a-User/Adoptee's Area any help there would be great. Lethaniol 12:08, 20 December 2006 (UTC)