Wikipedia:Africa-related regional notice board/Peer review/Bayajidda

Bayajidda
I worked on this article on and off for about two months, I've exhausted sources turned up by Google, and I dare say my local library doesn't have very good coverage of Africa - if Bayajidda is mentioned in any books there, I can guarantee it is for no more than two sentences. So, with regards to length, there isn't really anything I can expand, although anyone who can is encouraged to do so. I'm requesting a peer review so as to identify anything besides length that could get in the way of it becoming a good article. Picaroon 21:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Peripitus
A few comments on what is an interesting read... - Peripitus (Talk) 11:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The lead of the article needs to summarise the entire article and so usually does not have references as they are in the body of the article
 * Would be good to have a section discussing what the sources have said about Bayajidda compared to other hausa mythological characters.
 * Trip across Africa section is just a single paragraph - should be either expanded or merged with a later section.
 * the first sentence of the Analysis of the story's meaning has an issue. It both mentions Malcolm J. Lamb and has a WP:CITE reference to the work. You need to pick one or the other way or referencing this opinion and the counter in the next paragraph.
 * didn't in the lead (and the Arrival in Daura and slaying of the serpent section) needs to be did not


 * Alright, I've added a bit about the story itself to the lead and moved all the references to the body of the article.
 * I'm not sure what to say about this proposed section, save that I've never really heard much about non-Islamic Hausa mythology besides Bayajidda. A lot of the Hausa people converted to Islam between 1100 and 14000, and much of the rest were forced to during the Fulani Jihad of the early 1800s. I've seen nothing comparing and contrasting the Bayajidda Legend with Islam, so to do so would be original research. In conclusion, all I can safely say is that Hausa society is nearly completely Islamic nowadays, and that the few remaining non-Muslim Hausa (there's a derogatory term for them, which I can't recall at the moment) aren't covered much. I'll do some more Googling, but don't get your hopes up.
 * Merged that section and the below one.
 * I've removed the mention of Lamb. However, per Attribution, it is appropriate to name Lange in the text and cite his work at the same times because he is a respected professor on Africa topics, thereby making his self-published overview of the Conference of the Africa Studies Organization in Germany a relibale source.
 * Contractions expanded. Are there any other barriers you see to this being a good article? Picaroon 21:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Aldux
Hi Picaroon! I'll just say what immediately appears before the eye. The quality of the article is, obviously, very high, and I well know the effort you've given to this specific article.
 * The lead is too short, in my view. In WP:LEAD, it proposes for medium size articles leads 2-3 paragraphs-long, that summarize the content of the article.
 * The first section, I agree with Periptus, is really too short. As the WP:SS says about sections, "each about several good-sized paragraphs long".
 * You should try to remove the "see also" section by simply embedding the two links in the main text, if possible.
 * I'd propose to rename "Further reading and external links" simply "external links", by removing the book. I generally feel it's not a good idea to insert a further reading, as it's hard for for it's extemely selectivity not to be problematic.
 * If you want to find new sources for your article their may be a possibility on the web you have not yet explored. Have you ever tried with http://books.google.com? If you haven't, if you register (it's free) you will have access to a lot of books; some only offer "Snippet view" (just a few lines of text, too little to be really of any help) but other offer "limited preview", that is, full pages. I've given just a very rapid look, but I've noted the "Cambridge History of Africa", pp. 308-310, and (under Abuyazidu) "Almanac of African Peoples and Nations" pp. 351-352.--Aldux 00:06, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've expanded the lead to two sentences. Seeing as the main attraction of the article is, in fact, the story, I'm trying to walk a fine line between not going into enough detail and giving out too much.
 * I've merged the first two paragraphs into one.
 * Bayajidda is more of a cultural figure than a historical hero; by this, I mean, he engaged in no wars and founded no countries. Instead, his tale, combined with later Islamic influences, set the foundations for modern Hausa culture. Because of this, I don't think there's a good place for a link to History of Nigeria. The Kano Chronicle link, meanwhile, is just there for anyone who wants more information on Hausa history; there isn't a good place to link to it, either, because it has very little to do with Bayajidda.
 * Yeah, I had qualms about the naming of that section from the beginning, so I've removed the book and changed it to external links. Could you go into more depth about what you mean by extreme selectivity?
 * I'll go see what Google books has to offer. Thanks for the link! Picaroon 00:45, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, I just meant with extreme selectivity that mentioning one, or two, or three books is always a small fragment of relevant literature on the topic; for this one should generally avoid, IMO, "further reading" sections, as they are inherently random in character.--Aldux 00:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've done some searching about, and have found several tidbits of information that could be helpful; the suggestion here about him causing a switch from matriarchal to patriarchal society is good. But how do I cite this and other "snippets" I find via books.google? Do I cut&paste the Google url? Do I cite the book with no mention of Google? Picaroon 01:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Personally, I cite without mentioning Google, referring instead to book and page. Another peoce of possibly (you judge) useful info. In Almanac of African peoples and nations it is written: "According to July, this legend [i. e. Bayajidda] probably refers to a series of southward migrations of Saharan hunters and fisher folks that Hausaland had experinced in the past, leading to a merger with indigenous groups" (p. 351). It also says that the Kano Chronicle narrates that the Kingdom of Kano was founded in 999 by Bayajidda's grandson, Bagauda. (p. 352)--Aldux 16:50, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Bagauda? That's a new one. According to Lange and the others whose work I've used, Kano founded Kano! I'll use your method of citing Google and will try to expand on the legacy section with information I find via books.google later. Thanks for the recommendation. Picaroon 17:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)