Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Neelix

Case opened on 19:34, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Case closed on 23:38, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Watchlist all case (and talk) pages: [/index.php?title=&action=watch Front], [/index.php?title=/Evidence&action=watch Ev.], [/index.php?title=/Workshop&action=watch Wshp.], [/index.php?title=/Proposed_decision&action=watch PD.]

Once the case is closed, editors should edit the as needed, but the other content of this page may not be edited except by clerks or arbitrators. Please raise any questions about this decision at Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment, any general questions at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee, and report violations of the remedies passed in the decision to Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement.

Statement by party 1
Please limit your statement to 500 words.

Statement by party 2
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Clerk notes

 * I'm recusing myself from this case request. Liz  Read! Talk! 09:09, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I am also recused from this, as I commented on the thread at ANI. Lankiveil (speak to me) 09:02, 12 November 2015 (UTC).

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (10/0/0/0)
Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)
 * Provisional accept on the basis of the various other allegations made in the proposed motion, in addition to this redirects issue. Hopefully these other allegations will be presented as evidence (including diffs). A case would also be a potential opportunity for Neelix to present their side of the story in an evidence-based setting -- Euryalus (talk) 05:20, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Commons is out of our jurisdiction, but a flick through recent contributions doesn't immediately raise alarm bells. Looks more like shifting images from a uselessly general category (Men) to a series of more specific subcats. But if I've missed an obvious reason why this is inappropriate, please let me know. -- Euryalus (talk) 06:54, 8 November 2015 (UTC)


 * @Various: doing this as a case requires people to submit evidence with diffs, and gives Neelix a formal chance to respond. Whether Neelix does or doesn't contribute is a matter for them - the case (if accepted) proceeds anyway. Considering desysop requests via cases is also the usual process, with emergency desysops reserved for instances where there is an ongoing risk of disruption using admin tools. As this is not the case here, there seems no reason to IAR the policy.
 * On a related issue I do agree with comments on other pages that the Committee should take into account the strong (but not unanimous) view of the community in considering this matter. I don't agree that the Committee is just here to rubber stamp that view - that would be a valid approach if that's what ARBPOL provided but it isn't. It may be worth asking ACE2016 candidates whether they support an ARBPOL clause requiring the committee to determine desysop requests by judging community consensus rather than by hearing a case. Until then it seems a reasonable approach for the committee to follow the procedures we currently have.
 * Other views welcome, just thought I'd explain some of mine. -- Euryalus (talk) 12:59, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Respectfully disagree. Neelix isn't travelling, or ill, or unable to access the internet. He has chosen to stop editing for a while to let this issue play out. That's entirely his right, but we shouldn't suspend the case to wait him out. Let's open the case and give him the opportunity to have a say in an evidence-based environment. If he chooses not to, then we can proceed on the evidence before us as was done in the cases of DangerousPanda and Collect. -- Euryalus (talk) 09:22, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * and others: if the case gets accepted and the committee agrees, I will suggest on the case page that we have the usual evidence phase followed by a one-week workshop and then immediately to PD. If there's a rough consensus among case contributors, this would then become these timing and the entire thing would be resolved in a couple,of weeks. I appreciate some would like it resolved immediately, but I reiterate the arguments above about the importance of evidence-based assessment, some regard for existing procedure, and some element of procedural fairness. It's also possible a shortened workshop might still throw up some interesting ideas on the application of ADMINACCT and/or whether Arbcom procedures should require adherence to community consensus on desysop requests, or be left to the committee's judgement. Or perhaps it will remain entirely focused in Neelix. Either way, fairness and due process can't be served by abandoning the case for a snap judgement via motion, but they can be served if there's a consensus for a somewhat shorter process than the full six week debate. -- Euryalus (talk) 09:31, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * suggest if case accepted etc etc, will propose a motion to that effect. I don't support it, but if the majority does then fine. -- Euryalus (talk) 09:57, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * the case will be called "Neelix" as that is what it is principally about. -- Euryalus (talk) 06:02, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * per previous comments here, as soon as the case opens I will move a motion that it be suspended until Neelix returns to editing, with an automatic desysop in three months if he has not returned by then. I don't personally support this concept, as Neelix' decision to stop editing is an avoidable personal choice (and not, for example, related to travel, illness or no internet). But let's have a vote on it. -- Euryalus (talk) 06:11, 10 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, desysops for "loss of trust" are not a thing. I disagree (and have said that I support a community-driven desysop process), but, right now, admins can only be desysopped for abuse or repeated misuse of tools, and for conduct unbecoming. I agree, however, that Neelix' actions, in this case, bear investigation, so I vote to accept. Salvio Let's talk about it! 18:13, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * you're quite right. I didn't remember that part and didn't check... In that case, I'll slightly amend my vote to accept and deal with by motion. Salvio Let's talk about it! 18:29, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Accept L Faraone  18:27, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Accept, though I have no real clue why we have to go this route, if we had (and we should have) a functional community desysop procedure, it would surely be being used right now. But, the simple motion has failed (I still consider a motion superior to a case here.) Courcelles (talk) 18:33, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Accept. Seraphimblade Talk to me 19:15, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Accept. As is probably obvious, I'd prefer to handle this by motion. GorillaWarfare (talk) 19:53, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Accept if only to give him a full chance to present his case.One of the reasons for the existence of this committee is to avoid doing serious things as pure reaction to first thoughts about something  DGG ( talk ) 00:19, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * As this is already past a amajority I am going to vote Accept but deal with by motion. Yes, I opposed a motion. I think we've rushed through desyops too quickly this year and I really wanted to get this one right. But I've read Neelix's email and don't think he's going to try to defend himself. I also agree with the comments at Arbitration/Requests/Motions. As others have said, we don't need a full case. My desire to not do this by motion was to be fair to him, to recognise the comments by editors and Admins I respect, and because I was told it wasn't a Level II desysop so I couldn't figure out what it was under our procedures (and have said so to my colleagues). Being an Arb can be frustrating. As an aside, I think Euryalus's suggestion above is worth further thought. Doug Weller (talk) 05:54, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Accept NativeForeigner Talk 07:17, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment Is Neelix likely to/going to participate? I'd like to hear on that point ... If not, the best way forward, as others point out above, is to accept the case, then suspend it pending Neelix's return to editing, with a provision that if this doesn't happen within, say, three months he'll be automatically desysopped.  Roger Davies  talk 08:41, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Accept I would deal with this via a normal case or like the Toddst1 case. I am opposed to a simple motion to desysop here. --In actu (Guerillero) &#124; My Talk  14:10, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Temporary injunction (none)
=Final decision = All tallies are based the votes at /Proposed decision, where comments and discussion from the voting phase is also available.

Motion to close case
This case was opened to address the behavior of, a long-time editor and administrator. Neelix has subsequently resigned as an administrator and acknowledged that he may not regain administrator status without a new, successful request for adminship.. In addition, an extensive community discussion on the incidents noticeboard has resulted in a one-year topic ban from Neelix's creating redirects.

Under these circumstances, this case is closed without further action. The restriction already imposed at ANI remains in force. Neelix is strongly counseled to take the concerns expressed by the community into account in his future editing, and cautioned that he may be subject to additional sanctions if problems recur.
 * Passed 10 to 0 at 23:38, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Remedies
All remedies that refer to a period of time (for example, a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months) are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.

Enforcement log
Any block, restriction, ban, or sanction performed under the authorisation of a remedy (except discretionary sanctions) for this case must be logged in this section. Please specify the administrator, date and time, nature of sanction, and basis or context. All sanctions issued pursuant to a discretionary sanctions remedy must be logged at Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions/Log.