Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron – Rescue list/Archive 17

Fritter roll



 * Anyone hungry for a fritter roll? I discovered this on Prod patrol. The nominator was not receptive to my attempts to fix up the article. I found evidence in the NY Times and BBC about Fritter roll variations. However the Nominator did not allow the article to be changed. See if you can edit this one successfully, without nominator interference and perhaps we can save the beloved Fritter roll. I stopped trying when it got close to being an edit war. Lightburst (talk) 19:25, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


 * I would counsel anyone willing to take up the challenge to familiarise themself fully with the debate at Articles for deletion/Fritter roll to get a full perspective on this editor's campaign to supplement the article with patently irrelevant material. Both of the sources mentioned above refer to fritters but neither to  "fritter rolls", bread rolls or indeed the word "roll" at all. By all means if you can find genuine sources related to the article, knock yourself out. Mutt Lunker (talk) 19:56, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Well at least you all know now that I was not using hyperbole to describe the nominator's attitude. I am not even that interested in Fritter roll's however I am flummoxed by the nominator's ownership of the subject. Knock yourselves out or sit it out. But Fritter rolls are doomed without massive help. Lightburst (talk) 20:08, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


 * "Fritter roll" references in your sources? Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:28, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


 * This debate should be in the AFD not here. If there are any cooking shows or cooking books in Scotland that someone has access to, please see if this is a common thing.  Or do restaurants list their menus online somewhere?   D r e a m Focus  22:49, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Apparently the title of this article should be "Roll and fritter". RS will likely not be found, however my search term of "Glasgow Roll and fritter" shows how widespread this food is in Glasgow, Scotland. I added these non- RS sources to the AfD perhaps someone can find actual RS with different search terms. Lightburst (talk) 17:24, 2 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was merge to Fritter Lightburst (talk) 18:54, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Joey Jett



 * Notable skateboarder. Achieved notability at 7 years old WP:NTEMP. Article needs a rewrite. WP:NOTCLEANUP. I found multiple sources, but who can help rewrite this improperly sourced bio? First AfD ended no consensus based on sources found, however nobody added them so now we have AfD two. Lightburst (talk) 14:42, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Lightburst (talk) 22:43, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

JK! Studios
Start up studio staffed by Conan refugees. Sources exist and can be improved. WP:NEXIST, and WP:Notability questions. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 13:04, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Relisted by an arithmetically disinterested contributor. There is a question about sources in the article. WP:RS? IMO, WP:Hey, as article is not what it was when the PROD was filed. But you can add sources and make up your own mind. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 16:25, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Per the closer: "The result was delete. For a detailed explanation of the assessment of keep !votes, please read User talk:Lourdes#JK! Studioss. Post relisting, the only Keep !vote editor claims they heard the group on a show; and therefore the same should be kept. Again, nothing based on policy or notability guidelines. If any editor has an issue with the closure, they can contact me on my talk page. Thanks."
 * So we are clear, the !vote was 7 Keep and 2 Delete So much for consensus to delete. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 11:07, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I just saw the result. I have commented and questioned the closer on on the closer's talk page. Lightburst (talk) 15:24, 11 August 2019 (UTC)


 * User:7&amp;6=thirteen, Re: this edit (which is right) would it make sense to add at the bottom of the AfD below the last !vote so closing admins know any Keep's above that point were organic and not alerted via ARS. Not to say closers are ignoring ARS !votes but it wouldn't hurt to distinguish a break between pre and post ARS !votes in the AfD. -- Green  C  16:29, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Deletion review/Log/2019 August 12 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 13:55, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Alis Rowe



 * The nominator claims that the subject of the article wants the article deleted. However, subject is a public figure of interest and notoriety through public appearances, and in magazines, and on the BBC and through. An prolific author of books and magazine articles about autism. As an author subject has won awards for subject's books. The page has existed for four years and passed two AfDs. I believe that a notable public person does not have a right to delete a WP article, even if they are the subject. I will see what the community says about this. Lightburst (talk) 00:27, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I think we can improve the article with more references. I have added portals to the article. Lightburst (talk) 01:50, 24 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was delete Lightburst (talk) 01:57, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Somayeh Mohammadi



 * Non trivial coverage exists in the secondary sources already present. However more exists in foreign press. Lightburst (talk) 22:00, 19 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was Keep Lightburst (talk) 12:46, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Diary of an Unborn Child



 * Controversial subject. I managed to locate several sources and put them in the article. The original "Diary of an Unborn Child" was read on the floor of the New York State Senate by Republican Senate Majority Leader Earl W Brydges on April 10, 1970. The subject has been in the public domain since 1970, and has been used over and over by both sides of this controversial issue ...and even made into a disturbing or campy song. Lightburst (talk) 13:00, 19 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Just minutes later the AfD closed: No Consensus.

List of towns and cities with 100,000 or more inhabitants
Gateway article to separate lists of all the world's cities. Listed alphabetically by name and by country. the related lists are up for deletion, too. I think this pivot point is useful to Wikipedia's readers and should be WP:Preserved. WP:Not paper and question about sourcing. Improve them if you can. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:55, 19 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was keep Lightburst (talk) 20:53, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Commuter Cars



 * Notable company. I found sources in Time Magazine, CNN Money and a blurb in Bloomberg. I spent some time trying to develop the categories and improve the refs. Perhaps more refs can be located. Lightburst (talk) 15:05, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Should be considered in conjunction with Commuter Cars Tango. I have improved the reference formatting on the latter article, but it would be improved by moving some of the "References" to in line citations.  I also improved the formatting of the reference in this article Commuter Cars. In any event, between the two articles, there is plenty to satisfy WP:GNG. WP:NEXIST.  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 18:03, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The All Seeing Carnac the Magnificent says "Entering the expressway." "Merging ahead?"  But it ain't over until ... it's over.  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 22:28, 16 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was merge to Commuter Cars Tango. Lightburst (talk) 13:29, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Myrcella Baratheon
This is the vanguard of a second wave, as discussed below. Note also that there's a proposal to prevent new users from commenting at AfD. That might be significant for such a high-traffic article and so provides good context. Andrew D. (talk) 08:55, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I've added lots of sources. WP:Hey, but more is always in order.  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 13:34, 17 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was a no consensus Keep Lightburst (talk) 13:28, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Per the closer: "The result was no consensus. OK, having lots of readers is not a reason to keep an article under notability guidelines. The question of whether GNG is met isn't so clear, as most of the sources are stated to be plot summaries rather than detailed analysis and there is the - somewhat vague - concern about non-independent sources raised. A merger was also discussed, but there does not appear to be a clear consensus either pro ("usual practice for minor characters") or con ("target is too long"). My sense is that while the keep arguments probably out-weigh the delete ones owing to several uncontested sources, the merge/redirect or no case would need a dedicated discussion." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 19:27, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Visible balance
The page has cleanup tags since 2009 but they are useless because it's like they are not visible. See banner blindness. Andrew D. (talk) 09:26, 12 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was keep. Lightburst (talk) 20:53, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

List of guest stars on Sesame Street
Referencing things on the list should be easy enough. Just a lot of things need reference. I was thinking perhaps putting things into columns would be better.  D r e a m Focus  04:35, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The result was Keep Lightburst (talk) 13:12, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

List of tallest buildings in Columbia, Missouri
Needs moire and better sources. Several of the buildings on on NRHP. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:41, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Per the closer: "The result was keep. Albeit, weak." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 16:52, 16 July 2019 (UTC)


 * non-admin closure. 8 keep 3 merge/delete 1 neutral from article starter. Somehow that is a weak keep. Lightburst (talk) 16:57, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Remedial math candidate? Oh well.  It's still a keep.  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 20:56, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Tameka Hobbs


Professor Phd., writer/author guest speaker. I found some non-trivial coverage of the subject. I also started to add to the article. Lightburst (talk) 00:50, 9 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was redirect to Democracy Abroad, Lynching At Home. Lightburst (talk) 12:59, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Arthur Hills


Very notable golf course designer. I have found non-trivial coverage of this subject and began work on the article. He started designing courses in 1967, and has designed 200 courses - several in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio. In other countries as well, Portugal and Croatia Lightburst (talk) 00:50, 9 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was keep Lightburst (talk) 01:16, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

List of battleships by country
Someone suggested this list of lists article could be useful for navigation. I agree. Not sure how to rework it to be clearer what it is though. Any ideas?  D r e a m Focus  02:00, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The result was redirect Lightburst (talk) 01:17, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

A. D. Kenamond
Notability questions. See WP:Academic <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 12:45, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Closed as a Snow Keep  D r e a m Focus  21:07, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

List of cities with the most high-rise buildings
Some dispute over whether the source for the information is valid. Does anyone know of any official government websites that list information about this or other sources of information?  D r e a m Focus  00:16, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The result was delete Lightburst (talk) 03:00, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Han–Uyghur intermarriage
Nationalist topics like this tend to be difficult but neutral parties may help in providing an independent view. The ARS has been invoked in discussion already so it belongs on the list. Mind how you go... Andrew D. (talk) 13:23, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Given the above explicit reference to me, it's difficult not to take the above "neutral parties" as a reference to my "deletionists telling editors who specialize in this topic area what they can and can't do with their own articles". It's worth noting that in the past, in cases like this one, such "neutral parties" have generally created more heat than light. I can definitely see the above ARS posting resulting in an endgame wherein 4-5 editors with a focus on Chinese and Central Asian topics all say either "delete" or "redirect" with nuanced reasoning related to the article in question and our deletion policy, 2-3 deletionists say "keep" with off-topic notability arguments, and a closer who just counts the votes and says "no consensus". Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 02:26, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
 * This is not an attempt to improve an article, it is blatant canvassing. Why would you come to ARS (a project specifically focused on keeping/improving articles) to seek "neutral" opinions? Please withdraw the nomination or explain how the article can be improved to satisfy the concerns of the deletion nominator, as stated in the instructions. –dlthewave ☎ 04:25, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I should point out that while editing (or rather, a complete overhaul of the article) could address the concerns of the AFD, what is really needed for that is topic specialists who know what they are doing, and historically this project's deletionist members have tended to favour "improving" articles such as the one linked above and Mottainai and Mottainai Bāsan in the opposite direction to anyone who had !voted "delete" or similar, often by attempting to keep all the articles' present content intact regardless of what their sources say. The random, off-topic sinophobic jab Andrew made here makes it difficult not to assume that is his intention here as well. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 04:42, 7 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Redirect "The result was redirect to History of Xinjiang." The well-reasoned and extensive discussion by the closer, User:Jo-Jo Eumerus is just too long to repeat here. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:24, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Christopher Kaelin
IMO, well sourced article about a geneticist. But you can help improve it. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:48, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Per the closer:"The result was delete. Insufficient coverage to show he meets WP:NPROF or WP:GNG." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 19:51, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Lists of tallest buildings

 * Delete Per the closer: "The result was delete. Consensus that this list is not notable and fails WP:LISTN" <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 22:04, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Per the closer: "The result was delete. Consensus that this list is not notable and fails WP:LISTN" <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 22:04, 15 July 2019 (UTC)


 * ," 11:34, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Per the closer: "The result was delete. Even if the nomination is inaccurate, editors have presented valid arguments for deletion later. The request to keep the talk page discussion as a record of a page move discussion that also applied to other pages is reasonable so I'll leave it."  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 22:02, 15 July 2019 (UTC)


 * DeletePer the closer: "The result was delete. The arguments that this is so poorly sourced as not to warrant a merger are convincing. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:34, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
 * DeletePer the closer: "The result was delete. The arguments that this is so poorly sourced as not to warrant a merger are convincing. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:34, 8 July 2019 (UTC)



There's several of these now so it seems sensible to consolidate them. Andrew D. (talk) 13:02, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Short list and short referenced article on short buildings. Needs improvement, if you can find sources. List itself could be made longer. See discussion on article talk page. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 10:34, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

While I think there are many reasons to keep the article, there is a claim that there isn't WP:SIGCOV. More and better would address the problem. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:36, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I would be the first to admit that the article can use some work. Two years ago, I did a lot of the research that populated the "proposed" list.  Too many hours digging through county permit filings.  At least one of those proposed items should move up to the "under construction" section, but I don't have the time right now to dig out which one it is and do the editing. --StuffOfInterest (talk) 09:41, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Olde Boston Bulldogge
Hello, I believe this article was deleted with neither a deletion +tag being posted nor any discussion. The Olde Boston Bulldogge definitely existed and exists.1234567etcetera So, how do we repeal this incorrect decision made by "one" administrator? Thank you Aquataste (talk) 09:13, 1 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The deletion log says "00:41, 4 March 2019 Fastily talk contribs deleted page Olde Boston Bulldogge (Expired PROD, concern was: None of the sources cited come close to being reliable.)". A PROD is supposed to be easily reversible at WP:REFUND.  You're still going to have trouble though as this appears to be a variant of the Boston Terrier and seems more of a commercial brand than a traditional breed.  Commercial breeders and growers are constantly making proprietary hybrids and varieties and only the exceptional ones are going to survive here.  The name of this breed is pretentious per ye olde and so its chances don't seem good. Andrew D. (talk) 09:43, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your timely response. The Olde Boston Bulldogge was the progenitor to the Boston Terrier, without it no Boston Terrier would exist.  You see there were many citations at the article before deletion. I really do not understand why it was deleted. Aquataste (talk) 10:42, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
 * If that is true,, if could be incorporated into the Boston Terrier page, and documented with a redirect. You seem to be suggesting it is a progenitor and an extinct breed.  OTOH, we do have extinct dog breed articles. See List of extinct dog breeds. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The reinstatement request has been posted here. Aquataste (talk) 11:27, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
 * , thank you Andrew, they reinstated the article. Very sad that a "real" article can be deleted that easily here at Wikipedia! Is there a +tag we can add to the articles talk page that the deletion was rescinded, so future admins know not to do that?Aquataste (talk) 15:33, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. The old prod template should be added to the talk page in such cases.  This should protect the article from further attempts to prod it as that process is only supposed to be used for uncontroversial deletion.  I have also added other relevant templates. Andrew D. (talk) 11:49, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Urban dog
I suppose everyone here is familiar with the concept of a WP:STUB, right? If not, the discussion may help. And so to bed.... Andrew D. (talk) 00:03, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

I Google news search for "differences" and "urban dog" but don't see anything relevant. Is there a difference between a dog in a city and those elsewhere? More parks to poop in perhaps?  D r e a m Focus  02:49, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Ignore all rules


This core Wikipedia policy is wonderfully paradoxical and self-referential and so it is not surprising that it should get attention outside. Perhaps it's a principle that has been tried elsewhere? Where I live, some workmen recently painted large numbers on the road to remind drivers of the new 20 mph speed limit. But about 90% of drivers break a 20 mph speed limit and so the issue of compliance with rules is commonplace. As some would like to make rules about what we can say here, the topic is quite timely... Andrew D. (talk) 09:19, 25 June 2019 (UTC)


 * It's certainly possible to find more external sources about this. For example, in the New York Review of Books, writer Nicholson Baker covered this as one of The Charms of Wikipedia, explaining that this was "the first Wikipedian rule". Also, there is lots of anarchist theory which may cover this as a general principle under some other heading. Anyway, the nomination invokes the rule WP:GNG but that's just a guideline which explicitly cites the policy itself: " and occasional exceptions may apply"
 * The concept has legal and equitable precursors. These should be the subject of further research  In any event, an WP:AFD of this particular article is a case of wrong place, wrong time.  Fundamentally, it is misguided attempt to blind editors to alternative ways and views of editing, in the name of encyclopaedic purity.  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:34, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep The result was keep <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:26, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Christopher Walter Waitt


Another RAF pilot and this one fought in both World Wars. Can we locate the pre 1974 references to WP:PRESERVE? User:Lightburst 21:48, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect Per the closer: "The result was redirect to No. 550 Squadron RAF. This was a complex AfD with many sincere and well argued comments. There is no doubt that this is a nicely written page, that certainly contains much material of interest, and I have considered WP:NOTPAPER. However, we work within the notability guidelines, specifically WP:SOLDIER and more generally WP:GNG. In this regard, I find the 'delete' arguments clearly more policy based, and hence stronger, than the 'keep' arguments.
 * "Moving on to the action to be taken, redirects are cheap and I see no reason not to create a redirect to sourced content on this person that will be useful to the reader. Normally, i would 'delete and redirect'. However, the editors of the target may wish to merge more content and there is no need to make that difficult. Clearly, though, a recreation should not happen without further discussion so I am going to protect the redirect." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 12:45, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Brennan Malone



 * Magor League Baseball first round draft pick with 2.2 million dollar contract. Non-trivial coverage to support WP:GNG, does not pass WP:NBASEBALL - however only needs to pass one or the other not both. User:Lightburst 14:26, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge "The result was merge" <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 12:42, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Andrew G. Geishecker
Long time Massachusetts judge. Since he is locally elected, presumably he needs to meet WP:GNG. hard to believe he did nothing worth writing about in his career, but I don't know. Because he died in 1974, coverage on internet is sparse. Needs someone with ability to look at old newspapers to salvage. Ordinary internet searches are not producing anything that I could find beyond the Boston Globe articles that are cited in the article. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 22:06, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Per the closer: "The result was delete."
 * No saving a local lowest state court judge without WP:GNG and WP:Sigcov. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:28, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Epistemology of Wikipedia
Philosophy tends to be difficult but this topic looks to be thought-provoking. What is the nature of the world's information that we are assembling here? What are the implications of deletion when admins can still see the content and it has been forked elsewhere? Verifiability, not truth? Truthiness? Citation needed? Andrew D. (talk) 09:20, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep "The result was keep. Withdrawn - mea culpa on the lackluster BEFORE search." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:42, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Buildings in Jersey City

 * Keep Per the closer: "The result was keep. While there seems to be some disagreement about whether the current sourcing of the article is adequate (per SportingFlyer), it seems like the sourcing presented by Andrew Davidson has convinced most editors. I note Rusf10's comment but it doesn't seem to have caught on. Thus this is a keep." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 10:29, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Per the closer: "The result was keep. While there seems to be some disagreement about whether the current sourcing of the article is adequate (per SportingFlyer), it seems like the sourcing presented by Andrew Davidson has convinced most editors. I note Rusf10's comment but it doesn't seem to have caught on. Thus this is a keep." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 10:29, 28 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Redirect Per the closer: "The result was redirect to List of tallest buildings in Jersey City. Consensus that NBUILD isn't satisfied. Discussions that the redirect target's list is too long can be held in a separate discussion on that page." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 10:31, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect Per the closer: "The result was redirect to List of tallest buildings in Jersey City. Consensus that NBUILD isn't satisfied. Discussions that the redirect target's list is too long can be held in a separate discussion on that page." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 10:31, 28 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep Per the closer: "The result was keep. Despite the fact that no significant sources were put forward during this AfD, there obviously is no consensus to delete at this time." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:32, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Per the closer: "The result was keep. Despite the fact that no significant sources were put forward during this AfD, there obviously is no consensus to delete at this time." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:32, 28 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep Per the closer: "The result was keep." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:16, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Per the closer: "The result was keep." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:16, 28 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Relisted Per the non-closer: "Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:54, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Relisted Per the non-closer: "Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:54, 28 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Relisted Per the relisting comment: "Relisting in light of recent improvements to the article, as well as lack of current consensus for "keep" or "redirect"." Per the closer: "The result was keep." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:34, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Per the closer:"The result was keep." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:16, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Per the closer:"The result was keep." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:16, 5 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Redirect Per the closer: "The result was redirect to List of tallest buildings in Jersey City. Irrespective of the (de)merits of the deletion nomination, it seems like the consensus leans towards there not being enough sourcing to justify a separate article around the topic - for some sources it's not clear from the discussion whether they'd satisfy WP:SIGCOV - and the keep arguments are mostly concerned with procedural issues or are not based on guideline/policy." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 10:35, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect Per the closer: "The result was redirect to List of tallest buildings in Jersey City. Irrespective of the (de)merits of the deletion nomination, it seems like the consensus leans towards there not being enough sourcing to justify a separate article around the topic - for some sources it's not clear from the discussion whether they'd satisfy WP:SIGCOV - and the keep arguments are mostly concerned with procedural issues or are not based on guideline/policy." <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 10:35, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

I've not seen the new Godzilla movie yet but suppose that the local real estate takes a pounding. Meanwhile, here in Wikipedia, someone is trying to knock down the towers of Jersey City! Andrew D. (talk) 19:09, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Nina Marker



 * Notable danish model with Aspergers. Has appeared in multiple several major publications and has featured articles about her. User:Lightburst 00:08, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
 * "The result was keep. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 10:55, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Madison Tung

 * United States Air Force Officer, pilot, wrestler, and Rhodes Scholar who also the first woman to wrestle for the U.S. Air Force Academy men's team. User:Lightburst 20:49, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * The result was keep User:Lightburst 14:19, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
 * United States Air Force Officer, pilot, wrestler, and Rhodes Scholar who also the first woman to wrestle for the U.S. Air Force Academy men's team. User:Lightburst 20:49, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 * The result was keep User:Lightburst 14:19, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Tom Choi

 * An actor who appears in movies and television programs. Seems notable. User:Lightburst 19:53, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
 * This name gets results for other people besides him. Searching for his name and the word "actor" got better results.  "Tom Choi" and "film" got even more.   D r e a m Focus  19:34, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 * An actor who appears in movies and television programs. Seems notable. User:Lightburst 19:53, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
 * This name gets results for other people besides him. Searching for his name and the word "actor" got better results.  "Tom Choi" and "film" got even more.   D r e a m Focus  19:34, 17 June 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was keep. User:Lightburst 14:20, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

John McHugh Sr.
A American soldier who participated in the D-day invasion and Battle of the Bulge. Received the Silver Star and the Bronze Star. looking for help from the editors to improve this article. It has not been tagged with an Afd, however and editor has placed a proposed deletion tag saying,"While highly decorated, doesn't meet WP:NSOLDIER. Recent spate of stories is due to his longevity, not sure that meets WP:GNG." User:Lightburst 14:25, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Individual behaviour in organisations


This is a topical topic and there is much to say. Many hands... Andrew D. (talk) 09:27, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Two words in the four word topic are spelled differently in American English than in British English. I fixed the search link in the AFD to help with that.  Going to take some work to rewrite parts of that article that need it.   D r e a m Focus  01:31, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

The result was Delete. There's consensus that this does not belong in main space. Anybody who's interested in working on it can request a move to draft space at WP:UND. User:Lightburst 13:34, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Ashley Liao
Another child actor with prominent prime time television roles. User:Lightburst 02:24, 13 June 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was keep User:Lightburst 20:16, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Battle bag
What's in your battle bag when you turn out to rescue another article? It's good to think of a shortlist of policies, references and sources with a stock of canned text and templates for the recurring issues we encounter. We should start another tab for this here, as a checklist of good ideas and resources. Andrew D. (talk) 09:07, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Renu Agrawal

 * Mayor of a relatively large city in India. Coverage might exist in non-English sources. Thsmi002 (talk) 18:30, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
 * The article was deleted. North America1000 15:04, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Mayor of a relatively large city in India. Coverage might exist in non-English sources. Thsmi002 (talk) 18:30, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
 * The article was deleted. North America1000 15:04, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Kelly Gould



 * Child star who - once notable - should always be notable. Can we find sources where there is more than a passing mention of the subject? User:Lightburst 18:08, 1 June 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was no consensus Keep User:Lightburst 02:22, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

List of oldest twins
Seems like ample coverage of something like this should be out there.  D r e a m Focus  14:34, 31 May 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was Delete User:Lightburst 16:55, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Some you can save, and some you can't. Sometimes the sourcing matters, but ...  Oh well!  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 17:02, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Trace Bundy

 * A well known guitar player. I think it may be possible to save the article. The nominator also nominated all of the subject's albums.User:Lightburst 01:03, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
 * A well known guitar player. I think it may be possible to save the article. The nominator also nominated all of the subject's albums.User:Lightburst 01:03, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
 * A well known guitar player. I think it may be possible to save the article. The nominator also nominated all of the subject's albums.User:Lightburst 01:03, 28 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Result was Keep. However, given that the group nomination led to some mix of opinion about individual pages, it should be acceptable to separately renominate individual albums for a more focused discussion if desired. User:Lightburst 22:27, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Winter is coming


I've just snow-closed this but it may just be the start and I don't want to get too involved for fear of spoilers as I've been saving the last episode. ARS members may want to patrol the topic like members of the Night's Watch on the Wall. Andrew D. (talk) 14:56, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

List of fictional games


How many of these can you identify: Fizzbin; Centrifugal Bumble Puppy; Cripple Mr Onion; Hussade; The Glass Bead Game? The latter won a Nobel prize and Wikipedia now realises some of its concepts. Can you win this game? Andrew D. (talk) 09:50, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

I find that this is an incipient spree and so we also have:




 * List of fictional games ended in KEEP.  D r e a m Focus  15:50, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Flying monkeys (psychology)



 * Is this a legitimate psychology term? Seems very Wizard of Oz. Is there enough mainstream primary and secondary coverage of the term? User:Lightburst 14:41, 25 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Result was Keep User:Lightburst 22:53, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

List of garden plants to feed honey bees in Canada
Nominator has a deletionist mentality. Aquataste (talk) 14:22, 23 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Result was Merge User:Lightburst 22:54, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Elizabeth L. Gardner
Women Airforce Service Pilots. WW II pilot. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:47, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Another DYK in the womb. coming soon <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 19:56, 24 May 2019 (UTC) <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:12, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Template:Did you know nominations/Elizabeth L. Gardner <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 13:11, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Per the closer: "The result of the discussion was keep. Seems like later in the discussion, some uncontested references to her were provided. Move or merge discussions can be had if there are still questions about whether the coverage is about the individual rather than the unit/photo" <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 20:18, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Elizabeth L. Gardner
valereee (talk) 00:01, 12 July 2019 (UTC) "28,169 page views. Not too shabby!  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:23, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Noah Raby 2nd nomination

 * Interesting subject which may be GNG, and provides an interesting case regarding notability. ...Once GNG always GNG? Or does one lose GNG if earlier claims of being the oldest person are debunked? Or if there is not recent coverage? User:Lightburst 17:03, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Interesting subject which may be GNG, and provides an interesting case regarding notability. ...Once GNG always GNG? Or does one lose GNG if earlier claims of being the oldest person are debunked? Or if there is not recent coverage? User:Lightburst 17:03, 19 May 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was keep. User:Lightburst 23:32, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Nikita Denise



 * Female performer of the year award and her AVN Hall of Fame status satisfies criteria WP:ANYBIO Wikipedia should have no bias or a tougher litmus test regarding adult film stars. User:Lightburst 00:45, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The result was delete. "As noted, WP:PORNBIO is no longer a guideline, and most of the detailed points about whether porn awards might still satisfy WP:ANYBIO appear to lean towards the notion that the award mentioned here is too obscure/too poorly covered to qualify." User:Lightburst 14:01, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Lost Lands

 * - Adds source search options
 * - Adds relevant links


 * nominator seems to have an issue with the fusion of myth and reality. WP:ATD User:Lightburst 22:08, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

"AfD closed as no consensus, leaning towards keep."

Richard Haine

 * - Adds source search options
 * - Adds relevant links
 * A Distinguished Flying Cross award winner - This is a third-level military decoration awarded to officers so he passes WP:ANYBIO having received a well-known and significant award or honor. In addition he should also pass WP:SOLDIER because he was the Commanding Officer of No. 488 Squadron RNZAF. User:Lightburst 00:13, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Just going to note that WP:SOLDIER explicitly does not make someone notable for having commanded a squadron; he would have had to command a force at least two levels above that, and since Lightburst apparently had to check the Wikipedia article on his award ("a third-level military decoration awarded to officers" is directly lifted from the opening sentence of Distinguished Flying Cross (United Kingdom)), I would question whether it is that well-known. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 05:51, 10 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Nomination to delete disengaged. Haine survives the Fliegerabwehrkanone returns to base. Green  C  19:22, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Nomination withdrawn. Not yet formally closed.
 * But I'm doing a DYK, so y'all are invited to the party, if you want to improve the article.
 * When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 20:02, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * There's already a DYK nomination. Notice that the person who tried to delete the article is now trying to disrupt the DYK. Tsk. Andrew D. (talk) 20:41, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * As expected, the above accusation is completely bogus. The AFD nominator made a request for a grammatical fix; that appears to be the extent of the "disruption". As appears to be the norm, Andrew is using ARS as a forum to attack editors he doesn't like, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with rescuing articles. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 01:13, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

The article can not be closed just because the nominator changed their mind. Others said delete so it'll continue onward until the time period ends.  D r e a m Focus  20:16, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * WP:Snowball. But I can wait.  Just not on the DYK.  Tempus fugit.  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 20:20, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * That's called Chutzpah. Apparently my contribution wasn't worth mentioning.  Spoke without looking.  User:Andrew Davidson was not the AFD nominator, but instead was part of the resistance.  I am sure everyone who deserves credit will get it. And the disruption will come to nothing.  Change the proposed hook; it makes no difference.  There are several other great hooks in that article, too. Looking at the nomination, the 'usual suspects' are all listed as creators, but the software doesn't seem to display that.  It will all come out in the wash. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 20:48, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Per the closer: "The result was keep. Weight of argument supports keeping the article and the nominator has withdrawn the AfD" <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 10:33, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I was happy to see this one get saved. A whole lot of work was carried out by the member/editors to improve this article. Bravo! article User:Lightburst 00:51, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

This signifies why this project is important. Went from WP:AFD to WP:DYK

DYK for Richard Haine
— Maile (talk) 00:02, 21 June 2019 (UTC) <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 00:07, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

2021 Formula One World Championship
We have lots of articles lined up for 2021 and there's even a parallel draft for this one. It's amusing to look at the history of these futile discussions which are becoming an annual ritual. Andrew D. (talk) 11:29, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/2020 Formula One World Championship
 * Articles for deletion/2019 Formula One World Championship
 * Articles for deletion/2018 Formula One season
 * Articles for deletion/2018 Formula One season (2nd nomination)
 * Articles for deletion/2014 Formula One season
 * Articles for deletion/2014 Formula One season

What’s actually amusing is that all but one of the AFD’s listed here actually resulted in the nominated articles being deleted, while the one that didn’t was an april fool’s joke. Nothing futile about them and no precedents at all to keep the currently nominated article.Tvx1 22:42, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the most amusing thing is actually looking at the history of Andrew using this page as basically his personal playground for engaging in disruptive historical revisionism. If this were really about combating systemic bias or rescuing good articles, that would be fine, but there's no excuse for this kind of behaviour. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 23:46, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Notice a pattern: 1. '20xx Formula One World Championship' created prior to the championship. 2. It is nominated and often deleted. 3. It is recreated and notable after the championship. This is futile churn, and a waste of everyone's time and efforts. Any championship article will be notable. But I guess the too-sooners can't help themselves and closers go by the book. Should have more flexibility in cases like this. -- Green  C  14:33, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Indeed. The front line in that endless conflict is about 2 years in the future.  Currently 2020 Formula One World Championship is fine while 2021 Formula One World Championship is the battleground.  2021 will be accepted by everyone later this year and the battle will then move to 2022.  For another topical example of such futility see Child of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex; Son of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. Andrew D. (talk) 14:47, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I started an essay WP:AFDCHURN. It probably won't get much attention but the more often "WP:AFDCHURN" is used the concept will be brought into broader consciousness and possibly added to a guideline in the future. Feel free to add additional examples as found. --  Green  C  15:30, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Who Will Rock You
A wealthy company has a television show it created two seasons worth of that has had over 16 million views, has some passive coverage in places I found so far. Need more to have it kept. If anyone can think of anywhere to look for additional sources, please help.  D r e a m Focus  00:55, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Kelly Meighen
another way to close




 * A philanthropist that rises to the level of GNG WP:ANYBIO the subject has received many awards including The Queen's Golden Jubilee Medal awarded by the Governor General of Canada. User:Lightburst 20:18, 30 April 2019 (UTC)


 * WP:CONSENSUS was ignored for another relisting of the afd. User:Lightburst 21:58, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Please retract and apologize for the above remark. 3 delete !votes versus 4/5 keep !votes (I don't know when EMG's was retracted), disregarding the quality of the arguments (AGF says we should, lacking evidence to the contrary -- the nom is an admin, and the only editors who started actively editing in 2019, and therefore the only ones who could reasonably be assumed inexperienced, are THEFlint Shrubwood, Skirts89, and you), is not "consensus" to keep by any stretch of the imagination, and now that one of the keep !votes has been retracted and the only !vote since the relisting has been to delete, it's now dead even. Comments like the above are exactly what give this project a bad name, and I'm frankly disappointed none of this project's more "keepist" members have called you out on it. I might as well ping User:Seraphimblade regarding the above remark about him. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 01:40, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Per the closer: "The result was delete. The "delete" arguments are stronger. Nobody has really argued that there are the kind of in-depth reliable sources, as opposed to passing mentions, that are a requirement for the inclusion of a biography." Math of this was 5 Keeps to 4 Deletes. No consensus. The closing of the discussion and the direction to not post on that page, and take it to the article's deleted article's talk page, is ironic and futile. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 17:32, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

I am puzzled and disappointed. I voiced my concern on the admin closer's talk page. I wasted a lot of time improving the article, and participating in the afd. Grrrrrr. User:Lightburst 00:34, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Deletion review/Log/2019 May 16 <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:41, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

U.S. intervention in Venezuela
I think the subject is well covered by academic and news sources. I have provided some of them in the discussion. -- M h hossein   talk 13:47, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
 * This was placed at the bottom by mistake so I'm moving it to the top.  D r e a m Focus  00:27, 30 April 2019 (UTC)


 * The result was Keep but begin merge discussion. User:Lightburst 18:27, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

All the King's horses and all the King's men...


If the Squadron does a good job with this, we might hope for a royal warrant. I have previously created the royal corgis and Queen Victoria's journals and, in my experience, there is masses of material about such topics. Andrew D. (talk) 10:32, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The result was keep. The clear overwhelming consensus here is keep.User:Lightburst 18:26, 7 May 2019 (UTC)