Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/"Martyrs" of the Spanish Civil War


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep. However, no consensus on the renaming issue so I will leave it named as-is and that issue can be addressed in another manner (WP:BOLD and/or WP:RM). —Wknight94 (talk) 09:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

&quot;Martyrs&quot; of the Spanish Civil War

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

I've started trying to edit this but this strikes me as having no value except as a blatant POV fork. A merger with Spanish Civil War has previously been suggested, but the discussion has since become fairly stale, and I think simple deletion is actually more appropriate in this case Nwe 14:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep & rename back to Martyrs of the Spanish Civil War. I don't see this as a POV fork, as the term is in wide use, in both Catholic & lay media. No merge necessary, as there is enough depth to this article to stand on its own. Historical events that lead to mass beatifications like this are certainly notable. Article move to include the quotes in the title was done by the nominator just prior to the AfD nom. Caknuck 15:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There are don't appear to be any sources for the neutral use of the term. This is a clear POV fork, and there is very little substance to the article. The historical events are included in other articles, most notably Red Terror - Spain. I renamed the article as part of my initial intention to improve its neutrality, but on reviewing it further came to the conclusion that it has no value and is biased by definition.Nwe 16:00, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The azcentral.com story cited in the article uses the term. There are over 1000 ghits for that exact phrase. Other secular examples include Sydney Morning Herald (reprint) & The Telegraph. Caknuck 18:00, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't see the azcentral.com story, and the secular examples a mere reports on a controversial decision by the Catholic Church to beatify clergy killed during the war.Nwe 12:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep & rename back to Martyrs of the Spanish Civil War. This nomination is totally without merit.  This is plainly not a POV fork.  Hundreds of the individuals which are the subject of the article have been beatified by the Catholic Church.  Info regarding beatification would not belong in the Spanish Civil War article or in the Red Terror article, yet, just as with other beati, they are notable and a separate article is appropriate. Mamalujo 17:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It is a pro-Catholic, pro-Franco POV fork, and would be even more atrociously so if it was renamed back. It is an article about a particular name used only by one specifically partisan group or groups to document an event related from a more neutral perspective in other articles, it gives no information that people couldn't get in a more balanced way elsewhere. Almost all of the article describes the events of the red terror, and not the process of beatification.Nwe 10:24, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge with Spanish Civil War. POV fork and bordering on propaganda Lurker  (said · done) 11:09, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep; rename has already been done. In terms of navigation, this article is usefully found from category:Catholic martyrs of Modern Times and other categories.  If merged with the main article, do so as a new section and leave this as a redirect to the section, with the categories on the redirect page. - Fayenatic (talk) 21:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge, or if expanded, as would be better, rename Roman Catholic Martyrs of the Spanish Civil War. But the current name really can't stand as even the heirs of the Repubblicans (especially the Communists) often call those that were killed for their loyalty to the Republic "martyrs".--Aldux 22:35, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep The subject is not a POV fork, but the way the article has been written, apparently to refight part of the Spanish Civil War, is definitely a POV fork. Where's the information on the people actually killed and beatified? Make it a stub, solving the POV problems, and allow it to be rewritten into a NPOV article that actually about its subject. Frankly, this article is an insult to the martyrs. Noroton 02:19, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep; Since when do we delete legitimate articles just because they aren't up to standards, yet? If this article can't stand on its own, then it calls into question the whole Project Saints. Bwpach 12:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete: This article is a POV fork and of pamphletary quality in absolutely all its characteristics, from the title to the content, biased from beginning to end. It is simplistic and misleading, giving no valuable per se information, and nothing which could even be worth merging into the Spanish Civil War article. Dr Benway 14:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * keep: Irrational anti-Catholicism is the only reason it was ever marked. It is simplistic, because the facts are simple: Catholics were slaughtered in that profoundly Catholic country simply for being loyal sons and daughters of Holy Mother Church.  To delete or rename is to deny history.Yupamonarchist 17:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: And regarding the Caudillo: he was a wicked man of whom the Church is not proud. He killed many Catholics (difference he didn't kill them for being Catholic), but he was the ham-fisted savior Spanish Society and for that some of us connected in some way to Spain are very grateful.Yupamonarchist 18:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: Out of respect for others who, like you, can feel quite strongly on this issue, please keep your political opinions to yourself and to those who may have any interest in them. I'm sure there are many places you can post them on, like your user talk page, for example. This is a discussion on wether to keep or delete this article, and the reasons why you think it should be one way or the other. Let's keep it that way.Dr Benway 07:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: I'm Sorry Dr. Benway, but you know nothing of my politics. I haven't spoken of them.  I have spoken of my religion Catholicism.  I have said indirectly that you are an anti-Catholic, a bigot. I guess I'll say it outloud.  And regarding my politics since they've been mentioned, I'm a liberal democrat who voted for John Kerry, who supports gay marriage, but who to the mystification of many is opposed to abortion.  This will be my last response to you.  God Bless and Mary Keep.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yupamonarchist (talk • contribs) 18:24, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: That's very considerate of you, thanks :) . Your lack of manners as well as your drivel are something I could really do without.Dr Benway 20:23, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep but retitle: Catholic martyrs of the Spanish Civil War. to some people, Martyrs of the SCW means the Republicans who met a tragic end there. DGG (talk) 03:13, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per above.Biophys 01:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.