Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/"The Irish Piano"


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 15:39, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

"The Irish Piano"
Although it's a well-made article, I have concerns about the notability of the film and the ability to verify any of the material from reliable sources. It also doesn't seem to meet proposed subject-specific guideline Notability (films). William Pietri 20:05, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete. Any film whose "official site" is a myspace page is by definition not notable.  User:Zoe|(talk) 20:49, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Zoe may be right about this one, but beware of categorical statements: http://www.myspace.com/JohnTucker is the official site for John Tucker Must Die. -- nae'blis 23:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Non-notable student/indy film. Zoe's right. Fan-1967 21:02, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Haha, here's another argument. If John Tucker Must Die can get onto Wikipedia, surely a GOOD film should be able to.

Support for the article
In support of keeping the article, I would like to bring up a few points. The current Wikipedia policy on the notability of films (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(films) ) is currently nothing more than a "proposed" policy. As such, it is subject to substantial future revisions, and, in theory, has no present authority. It is not my intent to disregard it completely, however, simply to note that, based on the policy being subject to substantial revisions, and that it is still not official, deleting The Irish Piano page on Wikipedia is, at this point in time, a grossly premature act based off of something not yet even official policy.

I do understand, however, that film notability is necessary to maintaining the integrity of Wikipedia (much like films must meet certain requirements to obtain a page on IMDb). I do believe that The Irish Piano's qualifications make it inherently notable to be on Wikipedia. The biggest qualification is that The Irish Piano is debuting at a film festival; surely film festival features are notable enough to be listed on Wikipedia.

As for verifiablity, most of the page doesn't really need to be verified (i.e. plot, film references, etc.). I think the only aspect that may need verifiability is that it is in fact in a film festival. The McFarland Film Festival is part of a bigger city festival in McFarland, WI, known as the Family Festival. The McFarland Film Festival is going to be a part of the Talent Show, one of several activities at the Family Festival. The McFarland Family Festival website can be found here: http://www.mcfarlandfamilyfestival.org/ I will add in this citation.

As for having a homepage on myspace negating notability, that's simply denying notability to a film that does not have adequate resources to make an independent website. A myspace homepage in no way affects the quality of the film and certainly doesn't stop it from being featured in a film festival, a surefire sign of notability; in short, a homepage has absolutely nothing to do with notability. I understand the arguments against keeping The Irish Piano on Wikipedia, and for the most part feel them to be reasonable, but I respectfully feel that that point is not. Also, where does the definition of notability specify that a MySpace homepage negates notability? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deltajuliet (talk • contribs)
 * Comment No, showing at a film festival is not enough to meet the standards. Many, many (most?) independent films (especially short films, almost universally) are screened at a few festivals and never heard from again. There is no coverage of this film from any external sources, which is the very definition of non-notable. Fan-1967 21:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

In supporting keeping the article, I think that certain parts of the notability policy are a bit off. I mean, some smaller movies released by movie studios don't even make it to 200 theatres and don't get much, if any, advertisement. Yet, they may become huge on video or on the festival circuit.

And also, this film has no external sources now, but what if sometime in the future it does, and may become huge, much the way that a film like "El Mariachi" did. Then the argument of whether this article should be deleted, if it does get deleted, will have seemed unnessecary. So, in closing, I believe this article should be kept. --FreedomHampster 21:45, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * At this point there's nothing that puts your film even in 200 theatres, or 20. It may become a big video hit, but Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, and we don't cover things which may become notable. If it becomes notable later, the article may be recreated at that time. Right now, it's an unreleased film with no attention, no coverage and no distribution. Fan-1967 22:02, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, FreedomHampster, but Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. I hope you guys are the next El Mariachi, and when that happens you can count on us to rewrite the article. But if we take the "one day it might be famous" approach, there's no end to it. I'm sure that before he shot a frame Rodriguez spent many hours with buddies and beers kicking the idea around. Before that, it was a vague notion he had on the bus. We can never cover everybody's sudden ideas and back-of-envelope sketches, so we've drawn some lines that we think will let us build a good encyclopedia. Luckily, there's plenty of room on the Internet, so don't be shy about putting your material up elsewhere. William Pietri 22:08, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete - Not notable, not verifiable. Wikipedia is not a promotional tool. My Alt Account 00:52, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Nor is it being used as one - that same argument could be used for any commercially-related page on Wikipedia. &mdash;the preceding comment is by DeltaJuliet - 01:10, 11 September 2006 UTC: Please sign your posts!

This is a film created by a couple of High Schoolers, it is an amature film...therefore expecting that the official site be anything more than a myspace is unreasonable...a website costs a lot of money to run and for an amature film that was not made to make money, a myspace should be plenty. The first festivle is a planned showing, but not the only one, there may be more in the future... { —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.82.175.40 (talk • contribs) 02:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. On the off chance it is kept, should be moved to The Irish Piano (which is a redirect to the current location). -- NORTH talk 05:27, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.