Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/'Iran' or 'Persia'? Which One Should be Called?

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus to delete, page was moved. -- Francs2000 | Talk 15:35, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

'Iran' or 'Persia'? Which One Should be Called?

 * Keep Persia and Iran - I think you are all looking at the wrong end of the stick. They both describe different things. Iran was always used by the locals to refer to the land (hence the word LAND) of Persians (Parsi's), in similar fashion to United Kingdom being referred to as the land/kingdom of the British people. The people of Iran have always been known as Parsi's (english translation being Persian) since the nomadic roots. However, during the islamic conquest, the Arabs attempt to take out the letter P from the Persian alphabet resulted in most people referring to Parsi as Farsi. To sum everything, Iran is the name for the land of Persians/Aryans. In the same respect as the people of UK being referred to as British people, the People of Iran should be referred to as Persians. This is the only geographic and historically correct term. Infact, the term Iranian is incorrect in many ways although ignorantly being used. Some similar examples to help you grasp this fact, are Dutch people from the Netherland (You wouldn't call the Netherlandis or Hollandians), the British etc. --Sina7 00:31, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Original research. Dan100 (Talk) 16:21, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Really Useful and correct information which is of great importance for those who are confused by two names for the same country. In times when a political regime named "Islamic" is trying to delete the old and rich history of a nation from the memory of the international community and to replace it by a fundamentalistic feature, it is more important than ever to show that the terms "Iran" and "Persia" depict the same nation and to hint at the European origin of the term "Persia" for this country. See articles by Prof. Ehsan Yarshater and among others "Encyclopaedia Irannica".
 * Comment - Not sure yet. My first impression is that this is useful information, but might be more appropriate for a talk page. If it could be a section of the Iran article, its plausible that it could become an article in its own right. Clearly the title would have to change to fit guidelines. -- Solipsist 16:41, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge persuaded by the condense into one paragraph and merge with Iran arguments, probably with a pointer from an appropriate Persia page too. -- Solipsist 08:44, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep but with better title. For comparison, see Derry/Londonderry name dispute.  --Red King 16:49, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep but change the unweildy title. (Perhaps, following the precedent of Derry/Londonderry name dispute as mentioned above, "Iran/Persia name dispute."  It's useful information that doesn't necessarily have a place in the Iran article, but could certainly be linked from the "Terminology" section. -- MrBland 17:03, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I just noticed this: Persian_or_Farsi%3F Slightly different IP but obviously the same author.  Does that page deserve deletion as well?  My view is that these are both  articles of some use, although I am beginning to agree that the information contained therein may be better merged into Iran and Persian_language.  -- MrBland 17:54, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * That issue is completely different, and there is really no dispute that "Persian" is the proper and standard usage in the English language. The continued usage of "Farsi" by some in the West (including some Iranians) is primarily due to ignorance of this, rather than out of any political agenda. SouthernComfort 19:10, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Keep, but change the title name Article is from a NPOV Point. User: 24.171.36.233 17:19 [5:19]/12:19 [CDT], 26 July, 2005 (UTC) Merge as appropriate with Iran and Persian Empire. It's POV anyway. JDoorjam 19:30, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I listed Persian_or_Farsi? as a possible copyvio, on WP:CP. See my comments there. The current form of the articel is celarly derived from the version I listed. DES 19:25, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * At any rate, that article is redundant considering Persian language sufficiently explains the issue, and currently no articles link to it (just noticed a link in the main article), so it should probably be put up for deletion as well, taking these points into consideration. SouthernComfort 19:37, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong delete. Article is original research and severely POV. As a sidenote, the anon editor who started this article also has persistently attempted to include "Persia" as an official name in the Iran article, which of course it is not. SouthernComfort 17:25, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete (salvage what's useful and merge it into main Iran article). Otherwise rename, current title is horrible. Pavel Vozenilek 17:28, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, POV and pointless as both names can apply similar to Siamese or Thai.Gateman1997 17:55, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Start over, this begins with a question! Also the point is moot. Persia refers to a historic area that encompassed both Iran and Iraq. The historic name has been superceeded by the current nomenclature, if the author would look at that high tech device known as a map, especially one produced in, oh, say the past 50 years. Hamster Sandwich 18:03, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Well he has one point. Despite current political boundries many people who emigrated from the region prior to it becoming Iran refer to themselves as Persians and take offense to being called Iranian.Gateman1997 18:48, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * This is false. Iraq (Mesopotamia) was never part of Persia - it was, however, at various times part of the Persian Empire. Iran has always been the native name, and Iranians have always called themselves such, so I think you would be hard pressed to find an Iranian who feels "Iranian" is offensive. The word "Persian" specifically refers to the Persian-speaking groups of Iran, who make up half the population. The other half is made up of non-Persian groups who have never referred to themselves as being Persian, but rather Iranian. The relevant articles explain these points sufficiently, and editors who lack knowledge of this subject are encouraged to learn the facts. SouthernComfort 18:56, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment so what you're saying is that Baghdad was never at any time the Persian capital, you're saying on one hand that Iraq was never part of Persia, yet at various times it was part of the Persian Empire. I just want to understand because, well your arguement seems a little fuzzified. I'm trying to be kind. And last time I looked on a map, Iran was Iran, and Iraq was Iraq, and most sentient people will back me up on this. The article begins by asking the reader a question. This in itself is not encyclopedic. It is asking for help, on a simple issue. Time to catch up with the modern (post 1950) world. Hamster Sandwich 20:14, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * My argument is not "fuzzified." Armenia was once part of the Persian Empire, but was it part of Persia? There is a difference between "Persia" (the core of the empire) and "Persian Empire." Historians apparently understand this difference. Iran is Iran, but was known in the West as Persia. Iraq is Iraq, and was known in the past as Mesopotamia. Most educated people would agree. SouthernComfort 20:29, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Well I can put you incontact with several Persian-Americans that would kick you if you called them Iranians or Iranian-Americans.Gateman1997 19:34, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Your hostile tone aside, you seem to not have understood my earlier response. "Persian" is an ethnic and linguistic term - it is not a nationality. The nationality is "Iranian." Those who call themselves Persian-American (as I do) do so because that is their ethnic background - Persian being the ethnicity, American being the nationality. This is too obvious to even require mention in this discussion. SouthernComfort 19:45, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Hostile tone? Where do you get that, I do know several Persians that loathe the term Iranian? And it is debateable whether it is a nationality or a ethnicity we are discussing here. I've not heard anyone in Iran refer to themselves ethnically as "Persian" in 50 years.Gateman1997 19:57, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * You could have said that they would "strongly disagree with me," but instead chose to say that they would "kick me." That you know several Iranians who loathe being called "Iranians" is original research. You haven't heard anyone in Iran refer to themselves as ethnically Persian in recent years? Don't insult my intelligence please. How do you think people differentiate each other? Iran is diverse - Persians, Azeris, Kurds, Bakhtiaris, Armenians, Assyrians, Arabs, Turkmen, etc etc. SouthernComfort 20:02, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The point was that my phasing was not "hostile". You chose to make it such in your head. And now who's resorting to being condecending. As I said, they aren't "Iranian" they are "Persian". They left the region before Iran was established and as such choose to deny the nationality, that's not "orginal research" that's fact among some Persians. Also I stand by my statement that Iranians from the Iranian government (the highest authority in Iran) today have stated to the world that they are to be referred to as Iranian, not Persian.Gateman1997 21:50, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * You are free to your opinion, but they are not grounded in the facts, nor are they credible. I am an ethnic Persian myself, and have a very good understanding of these matters, and there are other Iranian editors here at WP that you may consult. Nonetheless, if you feel so strongly about your statements, then I suggest that you provide some relevant sources. SouthernComfort 23:15, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment We have to use neutral terminology and the agreed neutral term for the state on Wikipedia is the one registered with the UN. Hamster Sandwich 22:46, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. The information seems relevant and valid. Anthony Appleyard 18:51, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. The title is bad, seems to be original research. Any useful information should be merged into either Iran or Persians. Mmmbeer 19:27, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep but improve title Theodore W. Theodore W. 19:41, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, merge relevant info into Iran. See relevant parallel deletion debate at: Votes for deletion/Persian or Farsi? --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 20:03, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete/merge Worth a two-paragraph section under Iran. Robert A West 21:03, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename along the lines of [[Dispute over the name of the Sea of Japan --Arcadian 21:26, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to something more wiki-appropriate. Failing that, call both and reverse the charges. Grutness...  wha?  02:25, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep & Rename Horrible title, but like the Israel section, there are many sub-categories that are very useful. --Sean WI 04:19, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Condense into one paragraph and merge with Iran. --Angr/undefined 06:06, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete POV essay. JamesBurns 09:30, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, Move, and Cleanup, for obvious reasons Sean Black 19:48, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Condense into one paragraph and merge with Iran. Dmn / &#1332;&#1396;&#1398; 01:55, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename and cleanup. Uvaduck 13:57, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and merge with the main article on Iran. Basic premise is true and easily verified, but not worth a separate article - whole thing is basically trivia. Xaa 20:02, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Sweet mother of pearl, at the very least Rename it. Merits of the content aside, the name is terribly unwieldy and unlikely to be typed in the search field. - Chairboy 22:20, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to Iran/Persia naming controversy or something to that extent; see my comment on its talk page. --Wikiacc (talk) 13:25, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename (as above) -- The Time Killer
 * Keep and rename Mr. Know-It-All 17:50, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
 * This article should be renamed e.g. Iran and Persia (names) Olthule 02:05, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as per MrBland. POV can be easily fixed, no? Punkmorten 15:19, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep but rename. –ArmadniGeneral (talk • contribs) 09:52, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete The article is false and POV. 6 August 2005 (UTC)

arctic-avenger (Talk) Iran is the proper name for the country, it comes from the Avestan name Aryavarta in the meaning of: "Homeland of the Aryans". This article is written in first-person. article should be deleted and any relevant info should be merged. 07:21, 5 August 2005 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.