Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Çisel Ann Otts


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 00:46, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Çisel Ann Otts

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Appears to fail WP:GNG per only WP:ROUTINE sources. Fails WP:NHOCKEY by never playing in a high enough league and never in the top-tier of the IIHF World Championships, the only level that actually plays for The World Championship, the others are just for promotion relegation. Yosemiter (talk) 20:12, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:38, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:38, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Maryland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:38, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:38, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:40, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Question: Are there any women's leagues listed here WikiProject Ice Hockey/League assessment per WP:NHOCKEY? Don't think she can play for a men's team. Hmlarson (talk) 03:05, 9 August 2017 (UTC) This appears to be more than routine. Did you check Turkish results? ref. Hmlarson (talk) 03:10, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately no, but that is entirely because of the coverage given to women's leagues is insufficient to guarantee that they would meet GNG. One of those situations where there is media bias in coverage and we cannot not control that. However, women can still meet if they have played in the Olympics (and Turkey is far away from qualifying at that level). Routine just means any coverage that simply mentions the subject or is just a stats page, and that is all there is for this subject (as far as I can tell, if there are better Turkish sources which I may not have found due to my not speaking the language using my copy-n-paste searches for the subject then I would reconsider). Yosemiter (talk) 03:10, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... things are changing in that area. CBS Sports,  New York Times  Good to know, thanks. Hmlarson (talk) 03:24, 9 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete. Fails WP:NHOCKEY Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 14:05, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete: Fails NHOCKEY, no evidence the subject meets the GNG. To expand on Yosemiter's comments to Hmlarson, the coverage extended to women's hockey is frankly pathetic.  I live in a hockey-mad state with massive media and sports coverage, and when the local team won the inaugural women's pro league championship, it received no coverage in local media; I only found out about it from a blogpost on the Hockey News site.  When establishing a league on NHOCKEY/LA, the question we ask ourselves isn't whether the league gets any media coverage.  The question we need to satisfy is whether there's enough coverage so that every player who ever plays in that league can reliably meet the GNG.  That is a very high standard to meet, and I very much doubt that any women's sport league in the world (professional OR amateur) could meet it save the WNBA.   Ravenswing   17:23, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd agree media coverage is a problem but thanks to the Internet, that appears to be changing quite a bit and at a much more rapid pace. Sports Illustrated ref 1, Sports Illustrated ref 2. Funny enough, as a woman, I never had any interest in a Sports Illustrated subscription until just a few years ago. Who would've thought including coverage of women in sports could improve their revenue w/ new subscribers? Hmlarson (talk) 18:29, 9 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep. Am I reading WP:NHOCKEY wrong? Isn't she playing in the highest level of (woman's) hockey in Turkey? Ifnord (talk) 19:57, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Nowhere in NHOCKEY does it say highest level in a country, as that would be absurd (it would be saying that an NHL player is just as notable as a club player in Egypt). In the very first line of NHOCKEY, there it explains that and has a link to the list of leagues that qualify for any of the criteria (this one) that normally meet the GNG. As always, even if a player were to meet a SNG, if they cannot meet WP:V, then they are not notable anyways. Yosemiter (talk) 20:04, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Your hypothetical NHL player is obviously more notable than a hypothetical player in the top league in Egypt. But, IMHO, a player on Egypt's top league should be notable enough for inclusion. Ifnord (talk) 20:24, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:PROVEIT per WP:GNG. That list I linked is where the leagues for where GNG has already been verified. Yosemiter (talk) 20:27, 16 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.