Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Élisabeth Wiener


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  11:36, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Élisabeth Wiener

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Non notable actor, poorly sourced since 2009. Deprodded but no sources added. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 11:00, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 11:00, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 11:00, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 11:00, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 11:00, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 11:00, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Élisabeth Wiener
 * Delete Even though the list of works is pretty long, I haven't found any reliable mentions. Everything I have found is taken from French Wikipedia. For now she fails WP:GNG. If a French speaking editor can help finding reliable sources - if there are any - that would save the article.Less Unless (talk) 13:36, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Theatre-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:23, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment, sorry, but has any WP:BEFORE carried out? suggest that prior to nomination, books on french theatre/cinema should have been consulted (no i dont have access to any:))? agree that wiener has appeared in multiple productions, not all the roles may have been significant, and not all the productions wikinotable, but wiener had a key role in La Prisonnière, and a 1978 theatre production of Antony and Cleopatra (although not having a wiki article this list of multiple reviews shows it is notable), as WP:NACTOR asks for "significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions.", confirmation of some of the others being wikirelevant would be nice. ps. gettyimages has some pics of her that might lead editors somewhere wikible (or possibly down the rabbithole of despair:) Coolabahapple (talk) 04:33, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Coolabahapple yes, WP:BEFORE was carried out. Please read the policy. It requires a certain baseline of checks, not checking every single book you can think of. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 07:22, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks for that, its just that your nomination statement doesn't mention that you did any: 1)"Non notable actor" - an opinion, 2)"poorly sourced since 2009" - not a reason for deletion ("Notability is a property of a subject and not of a Wikipedia article."), 3) "Deprodded but no sources added." - although disapointing, not a reason for deletion, but again thanks for your assurance. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:56, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually Coolabahapple under WP:BLP biographies of living people must have every statement confirmed by a reliable source, or they must be deleted. So not having reliable sources, and no reliable sources being available, is a very legitimate reason for deletion. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 13:08, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per Nom and Less Unless. We should not attempt to "throw a monkey wrench" into a valid discussion. WP:BEFORE only requires a "minimum search" and not exhaustive research. When notability fails to be established by sourcing (tagged since 2009), especially when there is only a dictionary entry of a pseudo biography, and an embedded filmography list supported by an improper "External link" (IMDb) and inline referenced by the same link, there is ample evidence to question notability. To defend an article that somewhere in the universe there "might be" sources, misses a part of WP:NEXIST that states, However, once an article's notability has been challenged, merely asserting that unspecified sources exist is seldom persuasive, especially if time passes and actual proof does not surface. At a point it is better to offer proof, especially when this is requested (see above). The source provided above (shorter link) is a book about the play The Masks of Anthony and Cleopatra. The link drops the names Roger Planchon and Elisabeth Wiener, and a further search ("The Masks of Anthony and Cleopatra with Roger Planchon and Elisabeth Wiener") returned "It looks like there aren't any great matches for your search". IMDb was no help, and this does not satisfy advancing notability. Otr500 (talk) 09:38, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * sorry but are we looking at the same link? The Masks of Anthony and Cleopatra is a book by Marvin and Mary Rosenberg on the shakespeare play Antony and Cleopatra, the link i provided is to the bibliography of the productions that they studied for their book that includes the 1978 theatrical production Antoine et Cléopâtre with planchon and wiener in the lead roles and includes a listing of numerous reviews from publications like Le Figaro, Le Quotidien de Paris, Le Matin de Paris, Le Progrès, Le Monde, Tribune de Genève, Le Point, L'Humanité, Les Nouvelles littéraires, L'Express. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:01, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete a non-notable actress. The article lacks the multiple reliable 3rd party secondary sources with indepth coverage of the subject needed to pass GNG.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:26, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: Here is a source if someone wants to use it. Several more are linked here. -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:36, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep: The sources that have been alluded to above show at least some notability. Input from a French-speaker would be helpful here. Dflaw4 (talk) 03:05, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.