Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Émile (novel)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Withdrawn‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. (non-admin closure) Aintabli (talk) 15:41, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Émile (novel)

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Simply doesn't pass WP:NBOOK. Could not find a single source in which this book is the primary topic. Aintabli (talk) 23:21, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Withdrawn by nominator as sources have been found after LEvalyn's through extensive digging. I believe this could better be covered as part of the author's own article, but that would be within the scope of a merger discussion. Aintabli (talk) 15:38, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Literature and France. Aintabli (talk) 23:21, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment. I haven't found a clear NBOOK pass but I'm seeing reasons to keep looking. The sources are in French and it's hard to avoid Rousseau, but I think biographies of the author (about whom much is written!) will lead to sourcing. Here's what I've found so far:
 * In Les idées politiques d'Émile de Girardin (here), this sentence: "il publie en 1827 un roman autobiographique, Emile, où il expose ses malheurs d'enfants naturel : le livre émeut les cœurs sensibles, et Janin lui consacre un article fort élogieux dans le Figaro." -- this promises an article by Janin in le Figaro, though I don't know how to actually find it.
 * I also see maybe two pages of discussion of the novel in this article, Sondages dans le roman français du point de vue social (1789-1830), p. 43-44, and I think it gets mentioned elsewhere in the article too. I would be tempted to count this toward NBOOK.
 * The book gets a one-sentence mention with a quote in this article, Le gouvernement des portraits: Autour d'Émile de Girardin. This one isn't SIGCOV but indicates an awareness of the book among his autobiographers.
 * As things stand, I can't make a good keep argument, but I'd be curious what someone with better French could turn up. ~ L 🌸  (talk) 01:43, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The first source appears to be telling that Janin devoted his work to Girardin, not necessarily his autobiographical work. If the second one is a mere mention and nothing in-depth, it cannot be counted. Aintabli (talk) 01:55, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Regarding the first, the antecedent of "lui" is "le livre"; it can't mean a general dedication to Girardin. Drawing on this thread, I was able to find the review by Janin in le Figaro, here -- this new source is clearly a substantive review, suitable for NBOOK.
 * For the second, the article discusses Emile at length as an example of a book which presents a bastard as its sympathetic protagonist, much more than a passing mention. It gives a short plot summary and discusses the characterization of the protagonist. It's not fully clear to me at a glance at what point the author changes their focus back to the more general idea of books about victims, but there is more detail about the book than will show up in the average Kirkus review. I think it's a borderline but plasible NBOOK option.
 * Now that I've determined that the book was published with the subtitle "Fragmens", it will be easier to search without getting a bunch of false positives. I will take another look for more coverage. ~ L 🌸  (talk) 03:25, 12 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Comment: At the least, we should redirect to Émile de Girardin, the author. That said, he appears to have been notable in part for this book, so I strongly suspect there are sources out there on the book. Do ping me if any more are found. I'll try to have a look later but wanted to at least suggest this obvious WP:ATD. -- asilvering (talk) 03:40, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep: Still talked about 100 yrs later . It's also discussed here . I think with the period reviews cited in the article, it's notable. Oaktree b (talk) 17:02, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * psst, that's 200 years later -- asilvering (talk) 19:29, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Zut alors! Oaktree b (talk) 21:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep. The 21st-century coverage Oaktree found has convinced me without need for further sources, but I do still think many more exist that haven't been turned up so far. The Le Figaro review is absolutely WP:NBOOK-relevant coverage, and the second edition published 15 years later is strong evidence for lasting or recurring impact. It might make more sense to cover this on the author's article than in an independent article, but it doesn't need to be redirected/deleted for lack of notability. -- asilvering (talk) 19:28, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep. I haven't turned up a second proper review yet but I am increasingly sure that there's enough out there. (I did turn up a 19thC paper saying that they'd have a review in their next issue, but the next issue was not scanned!) If we want to look through the lens of NBOOK, I think either the article Sondages dans le roman français or Oaktree's find in Le Livre could be considered NBOOK-worthy "non-trivial published works" since both are more than a page of scholarly analysis. I also think there's a good GNG case: of the 8 sources in the article, 6 are independent & secondary, and I haven't added Oaktree's great Le Livre find yet. So overall, it took a fair bit of digging, but I now think keep is the right call. ~ L 🌸  (talk) 23:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.