Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Đặng Trần Côn


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. per WP:SNOW (non-admin closure) Mediran  ( t  •  c ) 09:53, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Đặng Trần Côn

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Fails WP:BIO. There is also a complete lack of sourcing required to meet WP:NOTABILITY. The "masterpiece" written by this author is a poem that is also similarly not notable or sourced. Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 00:02, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The article is somewhat un-encyclopedic and has no notabiltiy. sageinventor  00:11, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose / Keep - "Dang Con Tran + poet" 171 Google Books hits includes on the first page World and Its Peoples: Eastern and Southern Asia Volume 6 2007 Page 829 "Three great works of Vietnamese poetry were written in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. Chinh Phu Ngam (Lament of the soldier's wife) was written first in Chinese by Dang Tran Con ( 1710-1745), It was almost immediately immediately translated into Vietnamese by Doan Thi Diem ( 1705-1748),..." Exactly what WP:NOTABILITY criteria are needed for eighteenth century Vietnamese poets beyond print source references of this kind? As for the poem, The Song of a Soldier's Wife is the most famous of all classical Vietnamese poems, and second only to Nguyen Du's The Tale of Kieu in Vietnamese Literature as a whole. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:15, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Query: Do any of the sources really discuss the poet? If not, a merge and redirect to the poem will suffice. הסרפד (Hasirpad) [formerly Ratz...bo] 00:25, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Among the Google Book hits above are discussions such as Asiatische Studien 1956 "Tradition tells us that Dang Tran Con was an ardent scholar, and being deprived of light for his studies as a result of the edict, he dug a subterranean room where he could study by candlelight. The poet, hearing of a famous woman scholar, .." In ictu oculi (talk) 00:30, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Per In ictu oculi. The Google Books results shows a number of academic published sources that it is a real person who wrote what a number of sources say is a famous or notable poem. Meets WP:GNG. (You know, WP:BEFORE is a good policy if you don't want to end up being this guy.) —Tom Morris (talk) 01:02, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep - the fact he is still written about 250 years after his death is some indication he's important. The article cites some published sources. I'm no expert, but I doubt C18th Vietnamese poets are over-represented in the English language Wikipedia! Sionk (talk) 02:32, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * KEEP I feel that there are plenty of reliable third party sources in the Vietnamese language (as well as a few English language sources) available (as a quick two-second cursory search on Google Books I performed before voting) to establish notability, meeting WP:GNG, WP:BIO and WP:BASIC and meriting a keep. Although to be fair, I still must somewhat defend the nom as searching for foreign language sources (Vietnamese in this instance) can be a tad difficult if you don't have a browser that allows for instant translation or copy & paste of Vietnamese characters Bonkers The Clown  (Nonsensical Babble) 08:26, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Query again: for an author's work to make him sufficiently notable, WP:AUTHOR criteria 3 or 4 have to be met. The English sources do not meet criteria 3 or 4, as far as I can tell. Do the Vietnamese sources fulfill either? Or do any of the Vietnamese sources cover the author is sufficient depth to be notable otherwise? הסרפד (Hasirpad) [formerly Ratz...bo] 19:40, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Please see some Vietnamese sources: work's title 征婦吟曲-Chinh phụ ngâm khúc (author's name in Hán Tự - 鄧陳琨)and Viện Việt Học Institute of Vietnamese studies - search phrase "Nguyên tác chữ Hán của Ðặng Trần Côn"; his work also was translated in to Japanese language by Takeuchi; in English  by Huỳnh Sanh Thông; in French  and Femme de guerrierby Hoàng Xuân Nhị; in Korean by Be Yang Xu more. Regards--Cheers! (talk) 03:55, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Cheers: Please reread my query. I was not asking for Vietnamese sources in general—I have no doubt that the poem is covered in Vietnamese sources! I asked if there are either Vietnamese sources (or sources in any language, for that matter) covering the poem in a manner fulfilling criteria 3 ("The person has created ... a significant or well-known work ... that has been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews.") or 4 ("The person's work (or works) either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums.") of WP:AUTHOR or covering the author extensively otherwise. However, I see that the sources cited by In ictu oculi and Bonkers seem to fulfill these, so I am !voting...
 * I found this book listed Đặng Trần Công is one of 10 "Thăng Long nhân kiệt".--Cheers! (talk) 06:00, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep: per myself. הסרפד (Hasirpad) [formerly Ratz...bo] 04:47, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep Despite not knowing the language it is clear from the Google searches, Google Book searches as well as the arguments made above that this is a notable author. Mrfrobinson (talk) 15:32, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 16:13, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Vietnam-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 16:13, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.