Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/İlbilge Hatun


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was close. The article is now about something else than the nomination and almost entire discussion pertains to. I will procedurally nominate the "new" article so a discussion may take place about that entity. Geschichte (talk) 10:19, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

İlbilge Hatun

 * – ( View AfD View log )

I'm wondering how this article got approved for publishing on Wikipedia, but other characters from Diriliş: Ertuğrul haven't gotten the same. They are all characters from a heavily fictionalized series and none merit their own articles. what do you think? Teavannaa (talk) 21:08, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Adding a thought. This character from the series was based on a Göktürk warrior, but that real figure doesn't even have her own article (she is mentioned in the infobox of her husband). Aside from that, there's the matter of WP:NOTE. Teavannaa (talk) 22:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello ! See my comment at User_talk:Limorina, per current sourcing it's an obvious Delete. I looked at WP:SPEEDY but didn't find an obvious fit. The article was "approved" in the sense that the creator put it in mainspace themselves, which is WP-acceptable (though I think in this case not advisable), as is nominating it for deletion. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:49, 7 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks, ! I read over your comments on her page and in response, she said she created the page "for fun not for views". Definitely should be deleted, for all the reasons above. Teavannaa (talk) 15:52, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Conventionally, the nominator doesn't !vote; they just provide the nomination rationale. I suggest you strike the "delete" to avoid confusion. pburka (talk) 17:50, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Done! Thanks. Teavannaa (talk) 18:07, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Question: Are enough reliable sources available to keep the article? John Cummings (talk) 13:21, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2020 October 14.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 13:42, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:25, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:32, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:32, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 16:32, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment Although an ambitious project, maybe we can create a seperate and proper article for the main characters of Diriliş: Ertuğrul. Currently it's a small table in here. Untill that article is formed, I would say Draftify, so it can easily be merged into the article. About the question of, here are a couple of sources by major Turkish publishers about who the subject was in real life and about things in the serie: Sözcü , A Haber , Hürriyet , Akşam , Takvim . I must say that this article is very poorly sourced when compared to what is available.  ~Styyx   Talk? ^-^  17:25, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * For : you didn't have to vote in favour of deletion, as you are the nominator. ~Styyx   Talk? ^-^  17:29, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the feedback, ! Could you explain in a little detail what "Draftify"-ing an article entails? I still think all of the separate character articles are unnecessary and the table included in the main article is sufficient; more can be added to specific character bios instead of them having separate pages. Teavannaa (talk) 17:44, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with not having a separate page for each character. What I mean with a separate article is having an infobox and description, maybe a picture, just like this article for the main characters and keep the table-style for more unimportant characters, all of this in the same article. On a second thought, this can also be done in the article of Diriliş: Ertuğrul. ~Styyx   Talk? ^-^  18:08, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Feel free to join the vigorous discussion (slight exaggeration) at Talk:Diriliş:_Ertuğrul. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:32, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * "Small table"? Really? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:32, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Might be a bit, a bit, exaggerated. ~Styyx   Talk? ^-^  17:37, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge or Delete: no source, dubious notability. Anyhow, there is a problem on WP with this avalanche of articles mixing fiction and history since the success of Turkish "Ottoman" TV series.--Phso2 (talk) 18:01, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It seems as though the fictional series has led to numerous unproductive and incorrect edits of established articles on the historical personages, too, from "fans" of the show. Teavannaa (talk) 18:07, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment for the interested, Selçan Hatun is similar. And Saru Batu Savcı Bey (though not as similar). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:03, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete: Fails WP:NFICTION as written and I don't see better sources in my search, through I am open to considering Turkish sources if anyone can find them, maybe there is something there? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  05:29, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Reply, these are the ones I found (also in my comment above): Sözcü , A Haber , Hürriyet , Akşam , Takvim .  ~Styyx   Talk? ^-^  12:26, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping. I'd suggest expanding the section about characters in the article about the show first. If it is all just plot summary, there is not much that we need, and a stand alone list of characters would still need to pass WP:NLIST. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 11:17, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Limorina has made changes to and moved the article during this discussion. Relisting one time to see if their changes to the article, now at El Bilga Khatun, change anyone's mind. Closing admin please note that if you close "delete", you will need to delete El Bilga Khatun manually.
 * Delete unless the native language sources are shown to satisfy WP:GNG. Otherwise, this does not need an article at this time. TTN (talk) 17:14, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: I made major changes to the article, have a look... maybe you'll reconsider your decision? Limorina (talk) 14:43, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ST47 (talk) 04:31, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep, the article is not about a fictional character anymore but a real person. The sources I listed above (which were about the fictional character AND the real person) combined with the sources in the article guarantee notability. ~Styyx   Talk? ^-^  13:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure it's good enough. I don't read Turkish or Chinese, and I'm not sure these refs are WP:RS on history (since it's now meant to be an article on history). With GT, they (the Turkish ones) seem say "She is the mother of the Turkish Khan of the Göktürk State, Bilge Khan." and that's hardly  enough for an article. Something closer to a modern historybook/journal would be good. Also, not sure what ref "zh.wikisource.org" is supposed to add, that's like saying "ref:Wikipedia". I'm guessing it's some sort of primary source, but this is very much not clear.


 * It also seems that this person lived centuries before when the tv-series is supposed to take place. Maybe artistic license, or perhaps refs or editors misunderstood something? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:52, 22 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.