Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Łomna (Bircza)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 03:55, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Łomna (Bircza)

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Village in Poland, without (m)any resources, nor any support from online research. Jmlk 1  7  06:40, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Places, even historical places are usually deemed notable and the Polish Wikipedia has this article on it . Seems a classic case of an article which can be improved.  This is the English language wikipedia but it still covers the world.  Perhaps someone who speaks Polish can help here? Nick mallory 06:57, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, villages are notable. 96T 11:04, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep This is precisely the sort of thing I use Wikipedia to find info on. Could do with expanding, but I wouldn't like to see *Keep as notable. Expand and provide references.— JyriL talk 22:50, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak delete It has been the practice to keep articles about villages which lack the multiple reliable and independent sources which would be needed to show enough notability to keep a church, an organization, a school, a professor, or a shopping mall; but the actual existence of the vilage must be verified. I have seen several articles about villages, roads, or historical persons which were absolute hoaxes. I am not at all claiming that this particular one is a hoax, but anyone could make up a village somewhere and write an article about it. Anything must be verifiable to avoid having its article deleted. A foreign language Wikipedia is no more reliable a site than an article in the English language Wikipedia, and the Polish article also has no references. The website  might satisfy verifiability, if it were shown to be a reliable site, but it appears to be the website of an anonymous author, so even the two sources mentioned here do not really prove it exists.  So as it is, it fails verifiability. Even directory type information from government sites or maps (while not enough to show notability) would satisfy my thirst for verifiability for a village. Edison 01:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment It's going to be hard to verify the existence of a former village on the web--because, by former, is meant it currently does not exist--so your criterion is not helpful. See World War II to learn why.  There appear to be quite a few google hits, so I'm not sure why you're limiting it to the two websites you chose, maybe you could elaborate?KP Botany 03:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment The website that I discussed was not one I "chose." It was the only one anyone had mentioned above in this AFD, above, by Nick Mallory. The Polish Wikipedia, as I said, is no more considered a reliable source than the English language Wikipedia. There were and are no references with the article. Many Google hits may be a different village of the same name. (There are many cities named "Paris" or "London" or "Dover" in the U.S., for instance, and 3 named "State Line" in Pennsylvania alone). Some of the Google hits are clearly for a different village which has a different Wikipedia article, in Poland's Masovian Voivodeship, rather than in Bircza, and it can be difficult for editors who read only English to sort out these Google hits to determine which are reliable sources with substantial coverage about the subject.  We could use assistance by bilingual editors to evaluate the Google hits or other sources. Given the lower bar for notability in articles about villages, we still have a requirement of verifiability, which is not satisfied by saying "Look at all the Google hits for things which sound like the might be about the subject of the article." We need at least one or more sites which are reliable and clearly about the article's subject, which show at least that the village existed at least at some time in the past.  There are certainly many reliable online sources for villages which once existed long before the internet. Some locations are cited in the 1911 Britannica. Others might be cited to an older geography book at Google Books. There are also old geographic gazeteers in libraries which list every village and hamlet. (edited)Edison 07:23, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep All such settlements are notable per longstanding precedent. Davewild 08:25, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment To have an article, we need to at least specify which of several village we are talking about. At a very inclusive English language site for genealogical research, ShtetlSeeker (but still not a "reliable source" )which lists even tiny villages, entering "Lomna" and "Poland" at, produces these listings. Someone should indicate which is the one which, if any, was in Bircza. It can then perhaps be verified on historic maps:
 * Village coordinates Country Location
 * Łomna	52°34' 22°12' Poland 	55.1 miles ENE of Warszawa
 * Łomna	52°23' 20°48' Poland   12.5 miles NW of Warszawa
 * Łomna	49°54' 20°30' Poland   163.7 miles S of Warszawa
 * Łomna	49°52' 20°31' Poland   165.9 miles S of Warszawa
 * Łomna	49°38' 22°31' Poland   192.3 miles SSE of Warszawa (This one seems to be in Subcarpathian Voivodeship--it is about 16 miles SW of Przemyśl) I would still like some info about the town so there is more than a directory listing asserting that such a place existed. Like: when did it exist, why did it cease to exist, and what was the population at its peak?
 * Edison 14:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment It's the one in województwo podkarpackie, powiat przemyski, making it rather likely to be the one 16 miles SW of Przemyśl--I can't believe Wikipedia uses voivodeship, what an incredibly awkward English word. All of these questions and issues belong on the talk page of the article.  I searched in Polish for Łomna, Bircza, also, to avoid the one in województwo mazowieckie, also checked out w Łomnej.  Feel free to research these questions, or post them on the article's talk page.  This is probably not information directly available on the web, except for the "why did it cease to exist" which is already found on Wikipedia, for the entire region, as I said.  This article needs expanded and researched, not deleted, which will serve no purpose.  KP Botany 17:25, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - It does need expanding, but that's a content issue, not a notability one. --Oakshade 22:56, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.