Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/12 Peers Theater


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   userfied to User:Frankgorshin/12 Peers Theater Ron Ritzman (talk) 23:57, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

12 Peers Theater

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Promotional article for a theater company of questionable notability, not even open yet. No significant coverage or claims of notability. Main references are primary sources. MikeWazowski (talk) 23:07, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

The company has not had many productions yet, but has participated in the Pittsburgh New Works Festival, an important contributor to the theatrical culture of the Pittsburgh region. --Frankgorshin (talk) 23:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 18:51, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 18:51, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete. The only independent source (see WP:INDY) is an announcement of a planned future performance by this group.  Since they apparently haven't performed yet at all, they fail notability per WP:CRYSTAL.   Rich wales (talk · contribs) 05:09, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * To cite a prominent example, films such as The Dark Knight Rises have Wikipedia articles although they have not yet been released and are in the process of filming. Why is a theatre company in the process of rehearsals for three performances scheduled in prominent Pittsburgh venues such as the Pittsburgh New Works Festival and the Grey Box Theatre any different?--Frankgorshin (talk) 13:58, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete I will say here more-or-less the same as I said for your other (very similar) article, which I also just came across on AfD. None of the references so far provided (and none of the references I could find on Google) were independent of the theatre company in question. Most are direct primary sources, one other is just an event listing. All those references do is establish the existence of the theatre company. There seems to be no significant coverage in reliable independent secondary sources, as required by the notability guidelines. I recommend that the author(s) of the article read that notability guideline, so that they understand why this article is non-notable. &mdash;gorgan_almighty (talk) 12:54, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * This is true, but I expect there will be more secondary references in the upcoming months, especially because the theatre company is participating in a well-regarded festival in the Pittsburgh theatrical community. Unlike other theatre companies, this one is not creating in a vacuum but is already scheduled to showcase their work in a prominent vehicle.--Frankgorshin (talk) 16:49, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Understood, but "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball" (see WP:CRYSTAL). Perhaps this troupe will be notable in several months' time, but they can't have an article in Wikipedia unless they are notable right now (or have been notable in the past).  One possible solution here would be to userfy (see WP:USERFY) the contents of this page back into Frankgorshin's user space, where he can hang onto it, work on it as new information becomes available, and perhaps recreate an article once this theatre company has established current notability.   Rich wales (talk · contribs) 17:00, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

My understanding of the "crystal ball" guideline is that articles can exist for events that are "notable and almost certain to take place." The Pittsburgh New Works Festival is considered notable (it has existed for 21 years and can be verified by numerous secondary articles), and as 12 Peers Theater's involvement in the festival is almost certain to take place (the performance is scheduled in less than a month, and according to the website, casting has already been completed) it can be considered to exist on the same plane of notability as Kuntu Repertory Theatre and other theatre companies that have participated in the same festival. While the existence of the article may be a little premature, significant developments have occurred within the theatre company such that it is "almost certain" that it will have contributed to Pittsburgh's theatrical culture with some degree of notability within the upcoming weeks.--Frankgorshin (talk) 17:53, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem here is that the existence of the article is indeed premature. Wikipedia cannot accept articles about subjects that may become notable in the future. The Pittsburgh New Works Festival and the Kuntu Repertory Theatre are both notable due to the Post Gazette articles, and the notable awards mentioned there-in. The 12 Peers Theater company may achieve similar status, but it has not yet. My advice is the userfy the article before it gets deleted here, and then re-create it if / when the 12 Peers Theater company becomes notable. &mdash;gorgan_almighty (talk) 18:38, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Okay, the article's been userfied. I will continue to add to it and repost when there are more sources.--Frankgorshin (talk) 22:03, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Hey, could someone let me know if the article's been properly userfied? I think I followed all the steps, but I'm not entirely sure as I've never userfied anything before in my life. haha--Frankgorshin (talk) 22:51, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.