Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/172 High Street, Elstow (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Listed buildings in Elstow. Modussiccandi (talk) 19:54, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

172 High Street, Elstow
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Consensus from previous deletion discussion was that all Grade I listed buildings were inherently notable. The building has since been downgraded to Grade II listed. So I no longer think it is notable enough for an article. The only sources for it are just listings of listed buildings so I believe it fails the GNG. Other than Elstow, where the building isnt even mentioned, there are no obvious merge targets. Eopsid (talk) 23:11, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
 * One of the few sources I found, even implies that the previous Grade I listing may have been a mistake. Eopsid (talk) 23:17, 11 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 23:18, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 23:18, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak keep I don't see how the article fails GNG, but it still doesn't seem to be very notable. GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 01:35, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we should have Listed buildings in Elstow like we do for Scotland and some parishes in England. While Grade I listed buildings and possibly the others may sometimes be notable I'm not sure if individual houses unless there's coverage elsewhere would qualify, see Articles for deletion/Little Thatch, Suffolk for example. I would generally assume parish churches are notable regardless of their listing and building like "X Hall" etc may be like Milden Hall but this building doesn't even have a name.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 11:43, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with you there is already a red link to that potential article here: Listed buildings in England. I will create one later. Listed buildings in Elstow now exists. Eopsid (talk) 17:36, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'd now say merge to that article.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 19:12, 14 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep. In actual fact, per WP:GEOFEAT all listed buildings are notable. In any case, being downgraded hasn't changed the fact that it was Grade I in the first place, so I fail to see why the conclusion of the previous discussion has been in any way superseded. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:22, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Are Grade II buildings inherently notable? There are about 300 thousand of them and if each had an article then 5% of the whole of Wikipedia would be on Grade II listed buildings in England. Eopsid (talk) 17:36, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Per the guideline, yes they are. Artificial geographical features that are officially assigned the status of cultural heritage or national heritage, or of any other protected status on a national level and for which verifiable information beyond simple statistics is available, are presumed to be notable. That's obviously never going to happen and, in any case, WP:NOTPAPER. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:06, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   17:04, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Keep  I disagree with the idea that a building can lose its notability due to its listed status being downgraded. If a subject was once notable, it always will be. A merge into a list article as proposed above would be preferable to deletion, however such a list article must be created before this article is deleted. NemesisAT (talk) 10:38, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect While I still disagree with the nominator's rationale, the article can now be redirected to Listed buildings in Elstow without any loss of content. NemesisAT (talk) 11:49, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment - I have now created Listed buildings in Elstow. I think it would be better to redirect there rather than delete. Eopsid (talk) 18:51, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to Listed buildings in Elstow due to unclear consensus around Grade II buildings, but the info should be preserved somewhere. Star   Mississippi  18:43, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Redirect to Listed buildings in Elstow. Gusfriend (talk) 11:41, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect is okay as it appears all content has been merged already. It is better to cover this in a list-article so there is more context.  Note thatched buildings are sufficiently rare that all should be categorized, which i have just done.  With redirect, the category Category:Thatched buildings in England should be attached to the redirect left behind.  Also redirect should be done specifically to the building's row in the table, using an anchor I just put in, so it should be redirected to: Listed buildings in Elstow.  Thanks User:Eopsid for creating the list-article which provides a constructive resolution here. --Doncram (talk) 18:31, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Well now I think all content has been merged, after I added 172 High Street's coordinates to the list-article. I also found the tower's coordinates from Google Satellite view, but it is difficult to determine which are the listed buildings otherwise.  For example, is "19 and 20 Bunyan's Mead" the house located on High Street at 52.11554°N, -0.46752°W, or is it one of the buildings accessed through Bunyan's Mead, a nearby street? --Doncram (talk) 19:00, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * 10 out of more than 20 listed buildings in the list-article now have coordinates. There were four separate ones named "Bunyan's Mead" which are now more clearly identified, and one photo was misidentified but that has been fixed. --Doncram (talk) 23:36, 21 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment The previous AFD discussion, mentioned but not previously linked above, was at Articles for deletion/172 High St, Elstow. I successfully just added it into the top stuff.  The previous discussion should be considered, but so far as I can tell was apparently only consulted by the deletion nominator. --Doncram (talk) 07:18, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge with Listed buildings in Elstow - despite it being a listed building, no other notability has been established. Difficultly north (talk) The artist formerly known as Simply south 15:51, 24 February 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.