Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1942 RAF Hudson Crash


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 02:37, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

1942 RAF Hudson Crash

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This, one of thousands of aircraft crashes in 1942, is not a notable subject for a stand-alone article. The rationale for this article's existence appears to be the part of the WP:AIRCRASH guidelines which states that aircraft crashes involving wikinotable people may deserve their own articles. It is not a requirement that there be such an article, and there is not enough here to require it. We have an article of a single paragraph about a footballer (whose article probably only hangs on the notion that football players are automatically notable) - one of nine ex-Arsenal players who died in military service during WWII according to the one reliable source used in it - and another article about the crash that killed him, with two sentences of information that isn't already in the biography article. Also to be considered is that two other people who are much more notable than William Parr - Glenn Miller and John Denver - do not have stand-alone articles covering their deaths. Nor do David Watson (cricketer) or Ron Flockhart (racing driver). In my opinion it would be better to expand the biography article, using the sources already listed there, and then deleting this one. I don't see anything useful in keeping the title as a redirect, as a reader is not likely to be looking for William Parr by searching for a Lockheed Hudson crash. The term "1942 RAF Hudson Crash" is way too unspecific to be useful anyway; the Aviation Safety Network's user-edited wikibase lists 32 RAF Hudson crashes in 1942, and that is not an exhaustive list. I know it isn't exhaustive because one of the two sources used in the crash article (another database, covering 1942 aircraft crashes in south-west Britain only) lists another 17 RAF Hudson crashes in 1942 that aren't in the ASN wikibase. YSSYguy (talk) 06:19, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I have expanded the biography Here and the title of the article follows the Accident article naming conventions for Wikipedia articles on air accidents without a flight number, in the format < > < > < > < > Talskiddy (talk) 14:01, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * That's all very good, but none of that addresses the concern I have, which perhaps can be summed up as "why does two sentences of information, which can be and is mentioned elsewhere in another article, need a stand-alone article?" YSSYguy (talk) 18:59, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete/Merge I concur with YSSYguy--Petebutt (talk) 07:06, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 08:52, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 08:52, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 08:53, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 08:53, 29 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete not really notable as a wartime military accident and the death section of William Parr (footballer) covers the incident adequately. MilborneOne (talk) 19:54, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - as not meeting the requirements of WP:GNG for a standalone article; coverage is not significant (googling for written works referring to the crash itself turns up nothing). The current referencing establishes that Parr was killed on that date and served with the squadron, and that this crash was of one of the squadron's planes but does not actually tie the two together. Of itself a plane crashing at night during war is not significant, there is nothing that marks this crash as different from any other, save that the pilot's name might be recognized by the average man-in-the-street. The details of the incident can go in the article on the man himself. GraemeLeggett (talk) 21:13, 29 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - William Parr (footballer) was notable as an International footballer for England. I've updated his personal page to reflect this with a couple of new references. I created the article based on the criteria for inclusion that the Military aircraft crash could only be posted if it involved the death of a person of sufficient individual notability to have their own biography page in Wikipedia. Talskiddy (talk) 10:23, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * If the criteria you used are the ones in WP:Aircrash - it says in the opening that its guidance "for when to add mention of aircraft accidents to articles about airports, airlines and aircraft type articles (my emphasis) - ie in this case, would it get added to the articles on RAF St Eval, 233 Sqn or Lockheed Hudson. It also says that "By consensus this should not be used to determine whether a stand-alone article should exist or not". And refers to the guidelines on general notability and on notability of events for whether or not to create an independent article. Perhaps the Aircrash guideline could be clearer on these points. GraemeLeggett (talk) 11:19, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, I followed the guidence in WP:Aircrash which says: For accidents involving light aircraft or any military aircraft the standard for inclusion is: "the accident involved the death of a person of sufficient individual notability to have their own biography page in Wikipedia (and the biography is not solely due to them being an accident victim)". I understand that the guidelines could be clearer, but maybe someone should start a thread at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation/Aircraft accidents and incidents to clear this up Talskiddy (talk) 08:33, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete A thoroughly unremarable incident and as noted the fact that there was a notable person on board does not necessitate an article. Nothing here than cannot be said in the biog.TheLongTone (talk) 13:52, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete -- Notability is not inherited. This should apply as much to a wartime crash involving one person who is just notable enough to have an article as to elsewhere.  If the crash killed multiple notable people it might be different.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:36, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.