Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1997 Ontario Nokia Cup


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. SoWhy 16:25, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

1997 Ontario Nokia Cup

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Not verifiable. The southern Ontario men's provincial curling championship with no references other than to partial team info at curlingzone.com. The page author apparently has programs from the event, but no other sources appear to exist. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 01:56, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The article is notable based on previous AfD discussions we've had, but I did warn the article creator (who I believe to be Ian Tetley) that the article could be put up for deletion if he didn't include any references. Since the event occurred before the modern internet era, online sources are scarce. -- Earl Andrew - talk 03:25, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The pre-internet note is relevant; there's certainly enough coverage of the 2018 Ontario Tankard to meet GNG. But without some sign of existence of secondary sources (newspapers.com doesn't seem to have any major Canadian papers for 1997, unfortunately), I don't see how this can be kept as a stand-alone article. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 03:37, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 03:33, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 03:33, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 03:33, 28 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. While it's true that an event from 1997 won't Google very well, that doesn't absolve anybody of having to do the work to find enough offline sources to make it keepable. Libraries have microfilms, and news databases exist, from which pregooglable coverage can be extracted, so an event's lack of googlefu is not an exemption from having to cite any sources at all. In the limited number of newspapers I can access for this period, however, the only part of this I can actually add a reference for right now is "was held February 4-9 at the Guelph Memorial Gardens in Guelph, Ontario" — and even that's just not enough. I'm quite sure that proper sources will exist in the kind of midsize-city Ontario newspapers that are mostly missing from the database I can access, but I simply can't save this myself with the resources available to me. So no prejudice against recreation in the future if and when somebody can actually find some real sources, but those real sources do still have to be shown, not just presumed to probably exist, before the article can become keepable. Bearcat (talk) 19:47, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * For whatever it's worth, I do plan on finding sources one day for this, and similar curling events from this time period, so if this article gets deleted, I may one day re-create it. I don't think you need to find sources from the local Guelph paper; this event gets coverage from across the province, and so I can probably find something at the library in Ottawa. There's always just contacting the Ontario Curling Association as well. -- Earl Andrew - talk 20:36, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, I don't mean to suggest that the Guelph paper would be the only place this would have gotten coverage — but it's certainly one paper where coverage would absolutely be especially guaranteed to exist, precisely because it's where the event was held. The database I have access to either lacks, or is inconsistent at best about, all of the midsize market papers in Ontario: not just Guelph, but Hamilton, London, Windsor, K/W, Kingston, Belleville, Sudbury, Thunder Bay, North Bay, Sault Ste. Marie, St. Catharines and Timmins too, and even for Ottawa I can certainly find some stuff but there are gaps so I can't guarantee that I'm always finding everything. Sometimes I can find stuff in those newspapers (e.g. Sudbury and K/W from about 1999-2005, but not before or after that), but in general the only Ontario papers I can be 100 per cent sure that I'll always find everything they published are the Toronto Star, the Grope, the Post and the suburban Metroland weeklies in the GTA (because the "Newsstand" database was merged with the "Torstar" database last year.) If you're willing to work on potentially salvaging this in the future, you do also have the option of asking to have it userfied in your own sandbox so that you don't have to start over from scratch — if you're open to that, I'd be happy to support a userfy. Bearcat (talk) 20:54, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * That may not be necessary, as an admin, I would just be able to find the article syntax at "View and restore deleted pages". -- Earl Andrew - talk 21:35, 6 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.